₦airaland Forum

Appleyard:
Can God change?

Well, this is a very good question but, before i proceed to contribute, i must advice you to chose your words whenever you are discussing God. Calling God despot, blood thirsty, killer, and all that ugly statements, its not advisable dear brother. For we must not lean unto our own understanding in trying to decode whom or how God is, but by His own revealed word and ways of doing things

Well, isn't it obvious that I am not a believer? I only sincerely stated how I feel.

God does not take pleasure in killing, neither is He delighted in the death of the wicked; Ezek.18 vs 23. And thats why He came to create an avenue for them to be saved; Luke 19vs10.
But all that refuses to keep the path of good and His commandment must reap what they sowed (Psalm 37.1-2, Deut.7vs9-11, 8vs19-20.)

The Bible certainly makes it seem like he delights in killing. Take for example the command to stone offenders to death, even your own blood relation, without any chance for repentance. Not to forget the pogrom campaigns sanctioned by God. On one occasion, Meek Moses had this to say:

"Now therefore kill every male among
the little ones, and kill every woman that
hath known man by lying with him.
But all the women children, that have
not known a man by lying with him, keep
alive for yourselves."(Numbers 31:17-18)

And God said somewhere, "I will laugh at their calamity..."

Now, when we talked about God's immutability, as eshrined in Malachi 3vs 6, we are talking about God's unbias and steadfastness regarding His promises and convenants. That is, God had always, and will always keep His side of a convenant and His promises are for ever sure. A convenant is a contract, and a contract, whether explicit or implicit, is an agreement/obligation binding on the parties to it, of which the right to enforce, rescind or claim damages that may arise from breach of the contract, is based solely on the PERFORMANCE or Non PERFORMANCE of the TERMS of that contract.

Thus, when we say that God changed His mind as it relates to a promise or convenant, its nothing but a fulfilling of the rules governing the convenant or promise. For instance, the commandments were given, but when the Isrealites turned to worship gods, God was no longer oblige to protect them. For they weren't keeping their side of the convenant.
Otherwise, God does not change His mind--not in an eternal sense. Therefore, when we see verses in the Bible that imply He does--in a human sense, like Matt said, We have to understand that God has revealed Himself to us in what we call ''anthropomorphic revelation''. This means that He has lowered Himself to our level and speaks to us in a manner that is consistent with our understanding.
Consider how God walked with Adam and Eve in the garden. God, who is the infinite being, who encompasses the entire universe, became like us so that we could communicate with Him.
After Adam and Eve sinned in the garden and hid themselves, God said, “Adam, where are you?” ( Gen. 3:9). Should we conclude that God who knows everything didn’t know where Adam was? Of course not. He was asking not just about Adam’s location but also about his spiritual condition. This illustrates that at the very beginning of God’s communication with us, He spoke in a manner that relates to us in our time frame--from our perspective. That is why God, in the Garden, went looking for Adam--because He was working from our perspective.
We know that God has, from all eternity, ordained whatsoever shall come to pass because He works all things after the counsel of His will ( Ephesians 1:11). However, when He deals with us, we see verses that say he changes His mind. Let’s take a look.

*."So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people," ( Exodus 32:14).
*.“Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him to death? Did he not fear the Lord and entreat the favor of the Lord, and the Lord changed His mind about the misfortune which He had pronounced against them? But we are committing a great evil against ourselves," ( Jeremiah 26:19).
The fact is that God knows all things ( 1 John 3:20), and He has known it all forever. To say that God would actually change His mind would imply that God, who is supposed to have known all things forever, decided to act in a manner that was different from what He has always known He would do. He would have known that He was going to change His mind, which means He isn’t changing His mind because He knew He was going to do it. So, how is He really changing His mind if He decided to do something all along that only appears (to us) that He changed His mind?
Consider how God would sometimes pronounce judgment on nations, saying He was going to destroy them; and sometimes those nations would repent. God then relented from judging them. In other words, He changed his mind and didn’t judge them even though He said he would. Are we to say that God didn’t know from all eternity that they would repent? Of course He knew. How do we know that He didn’t say He would destroy them to get them to repent, which was all according to His plan? Furthermore, God holding back his judgment is consistent with what He already said elsewhere:

“If that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it,” ( Jer. 18:.

So, what we’re seeing is God changing His mind from our perspective, but from the eternal perspective He never did. He’s not surprised by our choices, and He does not have to adapt to our mistakes or our plans. He works all things after the counsel of His will, and He does so eternally.

"Anthropomorphic revelation?" That seems to support my previous comment about man infusing human characteristics in God.
Did God know he'd regret creating man? If he did, how could he have thought earlier that his creation was good? And why did he go ahead to create man?
If God knows what and what not he'll do, whether or not he'll change his mind (omniscience), then can it be said that he has freewill? Since he cannot do anything other than what he already knows, how can he have freewill? And how can he be omnipotent since his actions are bound by his omniscience?

theAtheist101:
Did you reread what you wrote? How can his character be expressed without being displayed?

The god as expressed in the Bible is imperfect just like any human being. He is so far from "omni-anything".

@ McSterling I wouldn't be surprised if an updated version of the Bible claims god falls sick.

It just goes to show that this god is a creation of man. I can imagine the quandaries the Bible writers put themselves through: They wanted a god with superhuman omni omni abilities, yet the bankruptcy of their imagination couldn't stop them from infusing him with human characteristics.

Xiadnat:
His perfection is in his characters, not in how he displays them.

Where does it say G-d regretted creating man?

Genesis 6:6

New International Version
The LORD regretted that he had made human
beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply
troubled.

New Living Translation
So the LORD was sorry he had ever made
them and put them on the earth. It broke his
heart.

English Standard Version
And the LORD regretted that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him to his
heart.

New American Standard Bible
The LORD was sorry that He had made man
on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

King James Bible
And it repented the LORD that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him at his
heart.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
the LORD regretted that He had made man on
the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

International Standard Version
Then the LORD regretted that he had made
human beings on the earth, and he was
deeply grieved about that.

NET Bible
The LORD regretted that he had made
humankind on the earth, and he was highly
offended.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The LORD was sorry that he had made
humans on the earth, and he was
heartbroken.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And the LORD repented of having made man
on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

King James 2000 Bible
And the LORD was sorry that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him to his
heart.

American King James Version
And it repented the LORD that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him at his
heart.

American Standard Version
And it repented Jehovah that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him at his
heart.

NEPA don take our light o... Dayuum! And I was mighty glad watching the match. Loved the first Naija goal. Our guys are very confident.

Xiadnat:
The essence of his character/being is the same yesterday, today and forever.

But!

HE does change his modus operandi OR method of operation. It is evident through ages.

Prime example: It is true G-d is love and powerful. But, how HE decides to manifest his LOVE and power changes from person to person, generation to generation, situation to situation.

Hope that sheds a bit of light.

Doesn't a change in modus operandi connote a change in this essence you speak of? Moreover, since God is omniscient, why does he need to change his modus operandi? Omniscience should have made him begin with the perfect mode of operation that needs no changing. And how do you explain the fact that he felt regretful that he created man and also after the flood, even though the same Bible says he cannot?

It is very common to hear believers in God assert that God cannot change. Even God himself purportedly affirms in Malachi 3:6, " For I am the Lord, I change not..." Several verses of scripture allude to this same claim. For example, Numbers 23:19 says:
"God is not a man, that he should lie;
neither the son of man, that he should
repent: hath he said, and shall he not do
it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not
make it good?"
But the same scriptures give us accounts of God doing exactly what it says he cannot do:

Genesis 6:6
"And it repented the LORD that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him at his
heart."

More:
And the LORD repented of the evil which he
thought to do unto his people. (Exodus 32:14 )

And when the angel stretched out his hand upon
Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing place of Araunah the Jebusite. ( 2 Samuel 24:16 )

And God saw their works, that they turned from
their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that
he had said that he would do unto them; and he
did it not. ( Jonah 3:10 )

These verses show God changing his mind and sometimes feeling sorry just like a human being. Sometimes like in the case in Exodus, it took human intervention to change the Almighty's mind.

In the NT, we see God changing from a vicious, angry, blood thirsty, petty despot, who had no qualms sanctioning the killing and rape of kids and women, to a loving father who loved the world so much, he killed his son/himself for it.

Also, this same God who was so ever active in the Bible, dividing seas, causing a worldwide deluge, raining down fire and brimstone on homosexuals, turning a lady to salt, instructing a father to sacrifice his son, sending down fire in a competition of the gods, making a donkey talk, doing genetics with Jacob, raising dead people, killing even more people, etc., has suddenly become so passive and hidden in today's world. He doesn't meddle in our affairs anymore, even though we now have more issues. What can this sudden transformation be termed if not change?
Whenever God's ugly past in the OT is brought
to the fore, Christians are quick to remind you that, that he did those things in the OT and we're in the NT and yet they say he doesn't change. Why does an immutable God need an OT and NT? And are these Christians not indirectly making a case against God's immutability by explaining that he only did those ugly stuff in the OT and can't do such in the NT? Because immutability will sure mean God can still today sanction the killing of children and women, and entire genocidal campaigns like he did in the OT.

Looking at all these, isn't it clear that God can and has changed? Or is there some other Christian esoteric definition of change? What do Christians mean when they say God cannot change?

enilove:
Jesus cannot fail. He has done and completed his work of love and redemption for everyone who is ready and willing to accept him . For whoever fails to accept him is the THE ONE THAT HAS FAILED FOR ETERNITY.

JESUS SAID :

Proverbs 8:22-36 KJV
The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. [23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. [24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. [25] Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: [26] While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. [27] When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: [28] When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: [29] When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: [30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him : and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; [31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. [32] Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. [33] Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. [34] Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. [35] For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord . [36] But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

DO NOT WRONG YOUR OWN SOUL .
IF YOU DO NOT LOVE DEATH ,ACCEPT JESUS TODAY & YOU WILL FOREVER BE GREATFUL TO GOD.

Platitudes.

haffaze777:
I pity u,do u think u can understand word of god without holy shekpe?

Holy koskolo will suffice.

Christianity tells us the story of the Gospel: The good news. How Adam and Eve committed a Brobdingnagian sin by simply eating a forbidden fruit; how we all, Adam and Eve's descendants have inherited this sin by default and put in Hell's way. Then God conceived of a genius plan. He'd impregnate a betrothed virgin with his son/himself. The resultant god-man called Jesus would then die on a cross. This gruesome and inhuman ritual would at once reconcile man with God. Man would be returned to a state similar to Adam and Eve's before the fall. But it appears every of God's genius plans often fails. He made the world and man and thought it was good but man soon fell. He tried to get rid of evil by drowning all humans except 8 and how did that pan out? He chose Israel as his special people but they constantly drove him mad and he had to kill many of them. He even threatened to kill all of them except Moses but Moses intervened. And now he sent Jesus to die as saviour from sin and eternal damnation, but sin still thrives ultimately. This world hardly seems like a saved one. Sin thrives even among church folk. Christians admit/confess that most people go/are going to hell. They see visions where everybody including the pope goes to hell. And yet Jesus died to save this same world 2000 years ago. This was the best plan God could come up with and it failed as usual. Perhaps God is regretting killing himself/ his son right now just like he did about creating man and drowning the world.

shakazuldadon:
coincidence...

RIP

More like tragedy. RIP, couple.

malvisguy212:
you lack biblical knowledge.

OK.

malvisguy212:
you should have ask, why did God sanctioned the killing? God sanctioned the killing because He is the supreme God, other gods cannot sanctioned me for worshipping the most high God,if they can let them do it. Ask your self WHICH KIND OF GOD WILL COMMAND WORSHIP TO BE GIVEN TO HIM ALONE? What about other god? If this god is the supreme god, he will have protect the killing of his people, abi? Why will he allow the YAWEH to destroyed his worshippers? I know you cannot answer this question, LET IT BE SEALED IN YOUR HEARTH.

However, in the old testament, the major religion is the worship of the moon gods, God warned the isrealite in deutoronumy jerimaiah and isaiah about this moon gods. This worshippers sacrifice there sons and daughter for there gods, is this not evil to you? Am not surprise, an atheists does not understand good and evil.

You need an education.

malvisguy212:
well, satan can never told you he is evil, an herbalist will say "his power is not evil" but most of this power will not come freely, it will cost you something soo dearly. But the different of this with a christian is "God gave us this power freely without conditions"

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse
those who have leprosy, drive out
demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

God who talk about punishing evil deed and a pagan deity who seem not to show too much emphasis on punishing evil. Among this two, who is Good and who is evil?

Again, simplistic religious assumptions. Your god is arguably the greatest purveyor of evil. In the OT, he sanctioned the killings of children, women and the rape of girls. In the NT, he sentences people to infinite punishment for finite sins in a very short lifetime. Tell me, what could be more evil, more sadistic?

onetrack:
In addition you don't see the US military making use of juju. They would surely have started using it long ago if it was real.

True. These juju believers would have us believe that the USA, Russia, China and other world powers have chosen to ignore the supposed incredible potency of juju and have left it for village priests in the third world to play with.

malvisguy212:
can evil produce good ?you cannot used the evil power of juju to produce good Jesus say in Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a
bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
There is nothing good that can came out from bad.

What else would you say? There is actually nothing evil about the juju in your tale. But of course, you would resort to prevarications, prejudices, suppositions and assumptions about your juju. Many other juju believers would disagree with your suppositions. It is no surprise though, since juju is just a figment of your imagination. You can assume whatever suits your religion.

malvisguy212:
the good thing is that I do not forced you to believe me.I experience everything and I have even experience how a little boy beat up a grown up man with the help of charm, the grown up man could not even throw a SINGLE!! Punch is as if the man is being tight up, everybody were afraid to shere the fight.

I can't deny that you have many sensational tales to tell...tales rife with loopholes and untruths that you perhaps have convinced yourself to believe. Your claims remain unsubstantiated though.

Some questions I ask myself often concerning juju is this: if we have such incredible power at our fingertips here in Africa, why have we failed to harness it? Why hasn't the government invested in it? Why have we not found ways to amplify it? Why haven't we seen juju generate revenue for us? Why hasn't it increased our GDP? Do you have any idea how invaluable that dirty water used by the village priest in your tale could be to the arms market and militaries world over? Why is juju so elusive? Why is it so surreptitious? Or is there something fishy about it?

freecocoa:
Yea, he goes to church but he's not that religious, we did have the talk about long haul and how the difference in beliefs can be a problem but he maintains, it won't be, I do know however that, it's not going to be easy. I don't even want a wedding in a church.

Anyways, I'm not worried about it as I believe that, whatever will be will be.

Nah, I'm pretty serious with agnosticism, used to worry about what people will think so I often kept my opinion to myself when religion,spirituality and God is being discussed, not anymore, I don't even realize when I end up speaking up these days as I become bolder with each passing day, matter of factly sef, I end up on the side of atheists in some debates.

Never felt happier, more at peace and freer with my self ever since I ditched religion.

Way to go!

jayriginal:
DeepSight is a member of this forum. He used to be a deist. You might enjoy discussing with him.

Is Deepsight a Christian now?

mimiy05:
of course, its expensive. the only reason the nysc movement ish is cool is that u get to meet ur fellow corps members n possibly make friends before you get to camp. But like I said earlier on, I used God is good motors...booked online, paid 3100 n out of d 15 passengers, only one man wasn't a corps member...

OK. Did you spend much getting to camp after you alighted from the vehicle that took you from Lagos? And was it difficult locating the camp?

mimiy05:
I booked online so I paid 3100...that was last year tho.
God is good or agofure shouldn't charge more than 4k. not sure tho

I was informed of some people at LASU called nysc movement. They take corp members directly to camp. They're charging 6050. Isn't that too much? Or could it be because of the fuel scarcity?

mimiy05:
I used God is good motors, the one at iyana-ipaja. Almost all of us were prospective corps members then so d journey from lag to kaima was fun. Also agofure goes to bayelsa. they have a park at ojota. just remember to tell d driver you'll stop at kaima junction.

How much is the t.fare from Lagos?

Present, sir!

emmy4lov:
pls mine is showing loading report failed . pls what should I do

Same here. Load report failed. I guess it's server congestion.

gazilion:
Dear Onila, please run and come out from among them lest you get falsely indoctrinated beyond redemption!
It is so serious an issue, it has to do with your soul both here and in eternity.
You do not want to make this mistake only to open your eyes in eternity for TRUTH DISCOVERED TOO LATE.

"Eternal life is worth a life's battle. To escape the hurt of the second death is a thing worth fighting for throughout a lifetime" - CH Spurgeon.


Gazilion

Ah! Spurgeon the smoker. Did you know Charlie smoked? Fat tasty cigars actually. And he was proud of it. I hope Jesus isn't giving him doses of second death now.

0rex:
DCLM TV has been scrapped. The church only uses the present station which is on C-band satellite for live transmission of church programs only.

What will the op do now? I guess he'll break his decoder.

johnydon22:
Nobody is born an atheist or theist, babies are born without knowledge of it...

In today's world people turn atheistic in millions daily because more people keep seeing the world for what it really is. .

I will not tell my children that their is no god (this is not what atheism means) but i will tell them that their are thousands of god concepts but none have been proven and i disbelieve any of them, but this they must critically analyze on their own and see what they want.

I will teach them to use critical thinking and scientific approach towards thing and to be good to all when ever they can. To allow their empathy towards others guide their actions.

That a life spent in betterment of the less privileged and handicapped is a life worth loving and compassion towards all who needs a helping hand.

A little love, kindness, pain, tears, joy, happiness, beauty, family, friends, music, knowledge, parenthood, fighting for others . . is what makes our lives worthwhile.

Most especially radiate boundless love towards all, black, white people of every religion, culture and race, gender or sexual orientation because we everyone deserves love..

Well said.

Is it necessary to reprint one's green card since the initial one printed during registration doesn't include call up number?

Misogynist2014:
If you say it was his son, how was Moses's wife able to cut the delicate foreskin? Pls, at least you had a little training while being brought up, these senseless and orderless posts don't speak well of you. A little manners will do, if not in respect of God, let it be in respect of My God.

What are you saying? You said you were just reading the story for the first time, and I thought to inform you that the bible ambiguously used the pronoun "him" in the passage, without clearly letting us know who was being referred to. No reference had previously been made to Moses' son but several had been made about Moses. For this reason, some people think the "him" was Moses. Others think it's his son because of his wife's action. There's no consensus among biblical scholars. Mind you, I got to know this by reading a footnote about this passage in my Bible.

And about your god, I have no obligation to respect him/it or whatever it is. Just like you do not respect sango, obatala, amadioha, thor, odin, Zeus, the Hindu gods or the thousands of gods worshipped in the many religions of the world. You are free to respect your god but you aren't free to impose that duty on others.

Misogynist2014:
When I read this verse, I wondered why I have never come across the verse before, even when I'm sure I read the Exodus, if not whole Exodus. At face value, it looked like a pure, and useless myth and I wasn't ready to live with a myth. Therefore, I went back to the Bible and read from the very first letter in Chapter 4.
First of all, we know from the book of Exodus, where Moses slew the Egyptian that he was good at using sword and also that non circumcision was a sin, even a sin punishable by death. " 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after
thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the
covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your
generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is
not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be
circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that
soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant."
What sort of leader would Moses have been? Or how much happy if his son were to be killed?
It is either the Man who seeked to kill him was the LORD HIMSELF or an Angel of the LORD, but I guess it's the LORD. We know whether its an Angel or not, it wouldn't take him 10 seconds to kill him and also due to the position he was when it was thrown at HIM and the time it would have taken for circumcision that they both were fighting with sword.
Moses then knowing who HE was and why HE was there would have commanded his wife to cut the foreskin.
GOD knew that Moses' wife wouldn't have allowed circumcision after Moses must have forced her on the first one (another force could result in divorce/separation), so God did it anyways and Moses never entered Egypt with an uncircumcised child.
We can see the woman was sad after seeing that the circumcision was done. "then she said, A bloody husband thou art , because of the circumcision."
The next day, we saw a Moses with no bodily harm inflicted!


I STILL REMAIN UNSHAKEN IN FAITH. COME QUICKLY LORD JÉSUS!!!

@ GooseBaba

Wow, you're seeing this for the first time? Another thing about that passage is that the bible is ambiguous about who the "him" that "the Lord" wanted to kill is. Whether it was Moses or his son, we do not know with absolute certitude. What we do know is that god acted like a total psychopath. He had just spoken to Moses in the preceding verses and commanded him to go to Egypt to free his people. Now Moses obeyed and set out, then god met him on the way and tried to kill either Moses or his son. Does that make any sense? Didn't god know before hand that the boy was uncircumcised? Since circumcised dick was such a big deal to him, why didn't he tell Moses in the burning bush? The ways of this god are truly "mysterious".

Ubenedictus:
hitler started with the jews but as he continued he managed to lay hand on any who opposed him Christians included, his persecution camps have the names of a some catholic priests and other ministers, a some of whom dies with the jews.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Corrie Ten Boom come to mind. I read sometime ago that Hitler also used the antisemitic writings of the reformer Martin Luther to justify his pogrom.

MizMyColi:
Why are these folks making mockery of GMB?
These cows look so sickly and malnourished and you know he looks the same way too.


Well, fill in the dots....

*modified*

^^
This is so unlike me.
#WrongInfluence
I'd wanted to give some folks a taste of their own medicine as it pertains GEJ.
Now that I think of it, how different does that make me.

My values, the things that make me....at the inner core, cannot allow me get away with statements as this.

For posterity's sake, I apologize.

Come on, it totally OK to react that way sometimes. You're only human after all. BTW, I didn't know you were passionate about politics. I guess the present political clime has raised our collective political consciousness.

Apart from O' level and the test scores, what other criterion is used for selecting beneficiaries of this award? Is cgpa also used?