₦airaland Forum

On the issue of Mariwo and its significance in Yoruba language, I dont know if I can speak to that since sacred objects do not ordinarily occur in common usage. For instance Ikin will not be a word that is used commonly, neither will you hear people use Mariwo openly or ordinarily in speech. This is because these are sacred instruments of the altar worship.

Mariwo itself is specific as a coronation instrument for all Obas in Yorubaland. Mariwo is dipped in a special holy water and the subject is padded from head to toe woth the branch and then blessed or baptized with the water and then after the ritual the mariwo is tied round the waist or some other parts of body. No coronation is complete in Yorubaland without this rite. The Araba and Apena (Chief Priest and deputy) are responsible for this rite. In Ijebuland and Egbaland I think the Lisa does it.

prexios: I think 'Gb' stands for
'heavy'
'take'
'hear'

My God, this can really scatter my head o. I believe our creativity around words and phrases are diverse as intertwined. You really have cognitive intelligence of word formation, lexis and structure. But you need to come down to our level sometimes so we could equally be elevated.

I thank you for this observation. If I was a linguist I would be a rebellious type and will dedicate my career to a struggle to bring about change in Yoruba alphabets and its classification. My brother, we have a long way to go in this discovery. You once said Yoruba language is a science, I believe you.

You see, the rest of the world learnt about Yoruba through the Orisas, the arts and our history. Academics have studied our arts and our cults and they cherish and love what they discovered and because of these findings some earlier stereotypes and bias have been erased and Yoruba has been accorded a more befitting placement in the annals of human history and civilization. Nobody is studying the language. When Yoruba language is opened up to scrutiny the world will be astounded. It will attract interest from mathematicians, astronomers, philosophers as well musicians.

Im finding out that each root letter has a functional numerical characteristic as well, in addition to a sparking/ ignition phase in the cosmological matrix.
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On the "gb" sound, yes, in abstract form it connotes a heavy or solid expression and functionally it also carries that attribute of "solidification", "material", "stability", "thick", "consistency", and so on.

"B" is a multiplier effect, reproducible.
Anything reproduced or multiplied has a natural tendenxy to also self- reproduce and multiply, which leads to self-multiplying products. This gives rise to a random spread and outward propagation.

If you want to concentrate the spread and give it order and not allow it to free roam outward into everywhere, then you introduce a balancer or a "G", to support the reproduce but in a stable and predetermined order or fashion; a bundle, a bunch, a commune, consolidate and so om and so forth.

"G" is the igniter which stabilizes or gives order to things which are naturally wild.

On a different note from letter/word combination there is also letter/sound combination. Look at the following sounds:

"Gba"
"Gbe"
"Gbi"
"Gbo"
"Gbu"

Vowel shift occured in last letter. The roots are G, B. What does "gb" signify in Yoruba language?

Here are hints:

agbo ile - agbole
igba ile - igbale
egba ido - egbado
agba odo - agbado
ogbo eni - ogboni
igba ogbo - igbagbo (a double)
igba ela - igbala
igba ija - igbaja
agbo
igbo
ogbo
egbe

I would like anyone to present examples of similar letter/word combinations like in the following sequence so we can study the sounds for analytical inputs.

Rabata
Repete (i wonder if this "p" was a "b" originally)
Ribiti
Roboto
Rubutu

[notice the vowel transition in the second letters, a,e,i,o,u].

These words are formed from R, B, T; the same letters from which the English word "Orbit" is formed.
Ribiti in Yoruba is someting that turns around an axis.

----------------------
Here is a similar one.

Randa
< > (is there a "Rende" in Yoruba?)
Rindi
Rondo
Rundu

[There is a vowel shift here as well. I dont know but I left a space holder for the "e"].

The formation here is from R, N, D. From these letters we also have the English word "Round".
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I believe threads like this will soon turn the culture section into a free for all house of chaos like you have in politics section..This thread needs to be deleted or relocated to politics.

[url] How To Go Become A Landlord In Another Man's Land by Ikengawo [/url]

I believe threads like this will soon turn the culture section into a free for all house of chaos like you have in politics section..This thread needs to be deleted or relocated to politics.

How To Go Become A Landlord In Another Man's Land by Ikengawo

[quote author=tpia@]Prexios

Whats your thought on the affirmative "beeni" often found in yoruba language?[/quote]Bee Ni
Bee Ko

We have "B", "N" and "K".

All "n" sounds... Na, Ni, Ne, No, Nu are escalations or emphasis of the sense expressed in the word they immediately preceed or succeed. Their function is only to draw in; acting as a flag or hook, so to speak.

Example:
Ni igba lai lai - At a period long past.
Igba Na - Period in point or a point in period.
-----------------------------

"B" - the igniter for reproducible state or multiplier effect is combined with N to give stability (firmness, unshaken).

Bee Ni - It is so!
The condition is valid.
---------------------------------

"B" - igniter for reproduction is combined with "K" - igniter for death, renew, transform and the validity is killed.

Bee Ko - It is not so!
The condition is not valid.

Tony Spike: If we agree that Egypt was the melting pot of ancient civilization, then I see nothing wrong in seeking for answers beyond our local sources. The Romans and the Greeks influenced Egypt, just as Egypt influenced theirs. It will not be a wild guess to extrapolate the sources of the words like Ubi, ila, Oro e.t.c. to Latin language. We were not there in ancient past and we cannot exactly state the number of migrations into Yorubaland back then. It is on this basis that we look at these sources.

Tony, you are correct but we must not look towards latin as the origin for words in Yoruba. They will loop back into either Egypt or Canaan as origin. We should acknowledge the correlated words for what they are.

I looked in some Arabic words the other day and found somethings that are very intriguing. Contrary to the popular estimate that Yoruba borrowed words from Arabic, the reverse is true but I dont need to introduce that at this stage, perharps later.

prexios: As for me, i believe strongly in the efficacy of Yoruba words than any other external source. it is only when i can not fathom the meaning of a word that i will subscribe to correlations, or when a word is so glaring and meaningful in that respect. However, i do not determine how my colleagues would find bearing for their variants.

We are as involved as the people throwing up researches everywhere and coming to conclusions that they deem fit, as such, i do not need to constantly change my position to accommodate new trends anyway. Albeit, i am not afraid of being wrong. I am only afraid of not being heard.

The Yoruba did dwell in Egypt, they also dwell in Canaan at some point and they have a religion that is perfectly a copy of Judaism. At this time of Yoruba migration, Rome may have been a little province and there is no powerful need to hold some words of the conquerors of Egypt after Alexander the great of Macedonia around 300BC. for any reason.

So why must all Yoruba words have some match with the rest of the world always? Mariwo simply means "mo-ariwo" that is, "knowledge of the voice" what is the voice? It is the voice that welcomes the ancestors of the Yoruba in form of Egungun, this is often given as follows:

Mariwo re eeee
Agan re eeeeee
mariwo tu yah yah
Agan tu yah yah

mariwo miyah yah
agan mi yah yah.

This is[mariwo]-knowing the chorus,
This is [agan]-the very leader,
Mariwo[knowing the chorus] appease Yah,
Agan [the leader] appease Yah.

From this you may start to see the import of mariwo, which the Yoruba often used to decorate a place call Igbale during the time of Egungun festival. So your register in this regard is mariwo, Egungun, Igbale, Agan and tuYahYah.

What did the Judeans say when Jesus rode on the colt to Jerusalem? Hosanna in the highest. why did they use palm-fronds? why was it called PALM SUNDAY? is it because the Roman conquered their country at this time or it used to be part of their tradition to welcome their leaders with such symbolic fanfare?

according to wikipedia:

"Hosanna" was the shout of praise or adoration made in recognition of the Messiahship of Jesus on his triumphal entry into Jerusalem, "Hosanna! Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!"[6] It is used in the same way in Christian praise, especially on Palm Sunday which commemorates that event."

The Origin of Aku

The Yoruba have a believe as to the end of existence.

Ancient Yoruba believe that a time will come when people will not die again. This time is called "Aiku," that is un-dieing. Iku is dieing, but aiku is to "undo-death." the ancient Yoruba have their word for resurrection just as Christians have resurrection. this is Aiku.

Yoruba Christians were not aware of this, hence they create their word for resurrection in Yoruba as "ajinde", which means "waking up". the ancient Yoruba, as you can see have the deepest idea of what they [Christians]were trying to preach to them. Aiku is Sunday, it was the day Christ resurrected, thanks to Crowther for the correlation.

So the Yoruba would says "Aiku baale Oro." meaning, "aiku is the master of all wealth," just like today Christians would say "salvation is the best wealth to have." Aiku is the same as aaku, or akuu- meaning we survive or remain. Thus survival become part of Yoruba greetings.

When the Yoruba says "Eku u," it means that one should survive a passing time. Time is fleeting, and people die at any period of time. But Yoruba wish one another that "may we survive the fleeting time of a particular period of the day."
akuu is a way of wishing one another life in Yoruba. Life is sacred with the Yoruba.

Prexios,

I agree to this response and I beleive you and Tony approached "mariwo" from a different input point but drawing same conclusion in its output and functional meaning or at best, cultural significance in ancestral times.

Somehow, something nudges in the crown of my skull and the message Im decoding from it is that at one point in ancient times Yoruba had an intimate contact and experience of Christianity and Jesus as a spirtuality and far much earlier than its re-introduction as a modern religion into Yorubaland by missionaries of mid 1800s. In other words, European missionaries did not bring Christianity to Yoruba, the ancestors of Yoruba were spiritual Christians.


On the words Aku/Eku/Iku/Oku/Uku, only the leading vowels (A, E, I, O, U) are transitioned. Considering their functionalities, we have:

Aku/Eku - affirmation of life in real time (as pointed by prexios)

Iku/Oku - acceptance or state of death.

Uku - a negative state of being

From my perspective the letter "K", used in this sense, will have a spark function for transformative state.

Where;

"R" is a spark or force igniter for origin or beginning or source,

"B" is a spark or firing for multiply or reproduce,

"K" will be the igniter for rebirth, transformation, return, renewal, cleansing, and so on...

In numerical value K is number 8.

This directive is coming from the governments of Yorubaland. Who is there in this country that can overrule their resolve? If they say Lagos will be included, then its done LAGOS WILL BE INCLUDED, even Gej cannot overturn it.

bokohalal: And ANEYOWA is an Edo coinage,that is symbolic of the Yorubas.

Mister, the natives do not call themselves that. BINI has absolute no meaning to me, or other Edos.

You are nobody. We are talking about the dynastic link originating in Ife and from which was produced Bini.

fr3do: Oranmiyan did not establish benin,he only brought about the Eweka dynasty.
But he did establish oyo.

Bini is a Yoruba coinage, it is symbolic of a reproduced branch or link.

For your efforts to enquire and understand this tradition, make you enjoy this abeg. Honestly, i dont know if thats police uniform or aso ebi, but I salute that dancer on the ground.

This is a very good question. Where and how did this tradition start?

In Nigeria, this tradition of spraying money started in the 60s in West. In the 70s it expanded to include other things. I shall explain what those other things are shortly. This was all at a time when we spent pounds sterling.

In the 70s in West the Ijebus and Egbas were notorious for merriments. This also coincided with lace importation and Eleganza was just a one store front in Idumota. The country changed from pounds to Naira and from left hand driving to right hand driving. Plenty of changes in the country at the time, a new awakening.

Tunde Nightingale, Sunny Ade, Ebenezer Obey, Lefty, IK Dairo and a handful others....these were the musicians that entertained at most night parties.

My mom said Nigerians have lost their pizzaz for partying, we forgot how to party.

She recounts how they would go from Lagos to Ijebu Ode to party all night or to Abeokuta for an all night owambe and stop over in Ijebu Ode and from there at Ikorodu and then head home and crash. Each party is a different aso ebi and is lace so they packed suitcase, plus assorted gifts to be shared at table stands and coolers filled with food.

By the time they get home my father had emptied his pocket on the dance floor and would be begging her next day to reimburse him.

So dear biafranqueen, this tradition of money spraying started in 60s, according to what i was told and into early 70s and took a new turn. At the event itself there is abundant food at each table, eba, amala, pounded yam, lafun, white rice, jollof rice, moinmoin, goat meat, malu meat, ese baban kano, hen, fried, stewed, mixed with vegetables, efo dey there, ewedu dey, egusi dey. ahhh, wetin you want wey you no find?
Cocacola, fanta, schweppes, pepsicola, star, gulder, heinekken, top, apple cider, brandy, johnny walker. na wetin you want? you approach the iced drum dip hand in and grab what pleases you. you eat jollof here, turn to next table and grab pounded yam and vegetable with fried goat and bokoto on top.
Hin never finish my sista.....

After all these yeriyeri, then it will be followed by the afefeyeye, that is the name calling on the loudspeakers. Remember when your classroom teacher call your name you answer present! For Ijebu party when the musician call your name on the speaker you answer with your money. When you approach the stage you do so with your gang of well wishers. This where the roll call begin. Each member in your gang waits for his or her name to be announced so they step forward and start their own money spray and as the money rains so the praises bellowing out of the speakers. Now, let that musician begin sing the family praisesong, the oriki of the family gangan, thats it! you go look ground and you no fit see soil because that oriki has opened the gate and the celebrity will not leave dancefloor or stop spraying until the pocket is empty. Thats not all.

After eating, dancing and spraying, now they must share and exchange gifts. My mom told of how at certain parties in Ijebu Ode and even Ikorodu invited guests went home each with live goat as gift. Im not kidding! Live goat was tied to the chair of each invited guest to take home. No be dead goat o. Ewure wey still dey breathe, yeah, was gifted to each person wey come invited and each invitee also had on an expensive lace aso ebi that was only obtainable at a designated store contracted for the occassion. Im not even going to talk about the eleganza coolers, the thermos flasks, the dozen milks, planta, bournvita, sugar, lipton, and so on so forth that is freely distributed not just to invited giests but anybody on location period.

Total Largesse of the first order!

But how and where was the precedence to this?

I am not familiar with the other Nigerian cultures but in Yorubaland, gifting for a dramatic output or display by a performer was ancient and was done usually with token gifts such as woven clothing or beads or tie and dye, this was the popular way of appreciating and rewarding public performance and even this practice was often done by a king or a noble or elite member of society. I will not be surprised that this ancient practice is common among each ethnic tribe. The Yoruba people just took theirs to a new dimension.

I dont believe we copied it from Arabs but i believe America and the rest of Africa copied it from Nigerians.

You have only one everlasting lover in Nairaland, everyone else is a pretender.

prexios: i understand that very well,

we have to guard our heritage jealously and the same applies to the Igbos too, we are universal brothers, understood. But given a keen observation, you will see it a little bit intricate. i was once at the palace of the the Ikoyi, close to Apomu few years ago. One of the courtiers told our crew that people of Umunede in Igboland once came to their town with the claim that Ede was their ancestral land! The man hailed from Ede. the feeling in the interior is quite different from our feeling here in Lagos.

Prexios,

You are getting ready to derail this thread if you go into mixing it up with Igbo history.

Igbo and Yoruba has ZERO cultural, geographical and customary affinities.

Townships on the Western frontiers of Igboland were settlements of proto-Bini people. Igbo has not always being a linguafranca in the Eastern parts, there were multitude tongues. The common words between Yoruba and Igbo today are results of Bini settlers influence on the language. Bini is close to Yoruba and so in error most people think Yoruba sounding words in Igbo came directly from Yoruba. No, it did not. Comparisons of words and meanings should be done between Bini and Igbo, not Yoruba and Igbo.

I disagree that Umunede people came from Ede or that they were presettlers in Ede. I know the history of Ede. Ede was created by Oyo as a military outpost to defend the North Eastern flank against Nupe. Prior to that Ede was not a town or a settlement or a community of any sort. Go and read the history of Ede. I dont believe this your story about some courtiers in Ikoyi palace acknowledging Umunede Igbos as the pre occupant of Ede.

Let us know who these courtiers are so we can ask them to repeat their account.

Igbos are inching in, looking for common words to associate and bond Yoruba and Igbo as one and same people, and then they claim they were preoccupant of Yorubaland. Very absurd!!

Bishop Crowther would have picked traces of these brotherhood when he was in the heartland of Igbo territory on missionary work and would have mentioned it as such, after all he was instrumental for standardizing the Yoruba alphabets and the Igbo alphabets and as well for consolidating the Igbo dialects into a proto group.

Igbos have words that sound like Hausas, were they brothers in the past and was Igbo the preoccupier of Hausaland because of the close sounding words?

Scholars like E.A Afigbo were among those who believed that the Yoruba, Igala, Igbo and so on descended from common language and would later diverge to become mutually unintelligible. I believe this, because a lot of peoples history is connected to Yoruba history. some may use this for the glorification of Ile-ife, its good. Ife is the origin of the world indeed. But this myth should not derail how to go about research.

Why is it always some Igbo scholar attaching itself to Yoruba history? Are there Yoruba scholars who believe the Igbo of Ife are the Igbo people of Eastern Nigeria? I think you are deviating from reason and attaching emotions to the discussions. We have so far looked at letters and sounds and meanings and functions from the inherent truth they contain. You will introduce bias when you begin to talk about who is from where outside of what the letters and sounds themselves reveal to us. Dont mix politics with this discussion, or im out.

Now when you look at the royal title of the Igbos, Obi: you will see it seems to mean OBI which the Yoruba have for parent. But among the parents, who better qualified to be call Obi? that is, "birth giver?" The woman. every female of all known species are known as Obi with the Yoruba. was there ever a potentate with that title in Yoruba antiquity? How i wish Onile-Obi that is "landowner matriarch" i know it should rather mean "one who have land with kolanut."

Dude, even the Igbo who use Obi title could not tell you what that name means in his language.

The obi of Yoruba is different from the Obi title of Igboland. The obi of Yorubaland come from the letter "B", the spark element for reproduction or multiplying energy, "bi".

Obi, in some ways, when seen in contrast with the Yoruba Oba, which seems like father (OBA-Kan=the same father) you have a kind of inference that it seems like one is patrilineal and the other is matrilineal from the same angle. You know with me, Yoruba history is not something in our head, it is something fossilized in our language, it is "phonetic fossils" we are exhuming that is pointing the way.

Then one should expect to find Oba with the Igbo as well. Reading the story on emeagwali site on the Yoruba, a contributor said Oba in IGbo is crocodile. In Yoruba, ONI is crocodile. that rhymes with the title of OONi, the king of Ile Ife. But for the record, you and i know oni means the owner, you find it in all royal title that support the prefix Oni- Oni-ife, Onilado, Olondo (if there is anything like that) instead of ALA- as in Alaketu. i do not know maybe one should be restricted, but that is holding back on some possibilities too.

Are you an Igbo person? or are you married to one or a son of Yoruba/Igbo relationship? I asked because im confused how we are now examining Igbo words to search origin and function for Yoruba words.

Please open another thread to discuss the cross-brotherhood of Yoruba and Igbo and we can examine your points. This thread is derailed as i can see.

Tony Spike: By the way, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion on Yoruba history & origins. The old school of thought has failed in many ways since it has failed to answer many arising questions. As far as I am concerned, there are far too many clues to discard our discussions here as fake, stunted and unrealistic. On the proliferation of fake IDs, it's just another wild guess. At least, I know metaphysical is Yoruba, just as I am. I won't go any further to prove my roots or who I am on this faceless forum.

@Tpia, could you please give me the link to Terracotta's earlier discussion on the Latin words? Thanks

Tony,

When prople dismiss what we do here as fake then I would like to see people spend similar effort like we are doing and bring us their knowledge of what the truth is. I want to see what Ile Ife say is the origin and how it tallies with narratives of other groups in Niger Congo that have Agemo, Adimu, Isise, Ifa, Bilikisu Sungbo, Esu, Moremi.

[quote author=tpia@]@ terracotta

you're entitled to your views, but if something keeps popping up during field studies, its worth looking into, since there's likely a reason why.

i went through some of your posts and found this:






same type of thing which was pointed out earlier on the thread.





no, it does not mean that.

yorubas remain african.

however, if too many words keep reoccurring in both languages with surprising frequency and having the same meaning when translated, then it's worth looking into, imo.








i think the question of contact was discussed on another thread last year.

as per coincidence, that's possible, but the coincidences seem to be increasing in number.[/quote]Tpia, i agree. There are far too many of these matches in words, speiings, meanings and functions, and with far too many frequencies to call them mere coincidences, we should ask our scholars to present similar analysis in the Niger- Cingo. its not acceptable to just dismiss the new revelations as coincidence, we need facts to substitute them.

PeterKbaba: [b]I feel civilization started from ife, they moved outward through egypt established similar states / region names like Nineveh (ile ife) etc, they were conquered first and people moved into Egypt (africa), that wasnt enough for this demon in human skin, they came after us in Egypt, then we moved back to the source.. Ife

PeterK,

We say Yoruba origin started in Ile Ife, the Ooni and the Araba both narrated the mythical beginning of Yoruba to John Wyndham. Lookup "Myths of Ife".

In this narration the landscape reference is definitely foreign, as is the landmarks. There are unresolved issues.

1. Who is "Ife" ?

2. Is "Ife" same as "Eve"?

3. Is "Ile Ife" same as "Nineve" or "Nineveh"?

4. Which was older, Ile Ife in Nigeria or Nineveh in Babylonia?

5. Is Lamarudu same as Nimrod?

6. Was he an Indigene of Nineveh, Babylon or of Ile Ife, Nigeria?

I have hundreds more questions but let's start here.

TerraCotta: Hi 9jacrip--I'm just dropping by to tell you that this discussion was started and maintained by fake IDs ( probably from a notorious ethnic group consumed by hate and jealousy for everything Yoruba ). The majority of participants in this thread aren't Yoruba and you've quite rightly spotted that this nonsense about Egyptian origins and biblical roots for Yoruba culture is meaningless. You're wasting your time trying to have a decent discussion with fraudsters, pretenders and people who are ashamed of their own ethnicity.

I hope you'll save yourself the trouble of participating in their hateful nonsense. Their only goal, as posters like Gbawe and Katsumoto point out in other discussions, is to try and ridicule Yoruba culture and history out of their inferiority complex about their own backgrounds. You can look through all the discussions here and see which posters have made useful contributions to cultural discussions and which ones spend their time here talking about inane nonsense. Some well-meaning posters will be drawn into this charade because they haven't taken the time to find out who they're talking to and dealing with. Don't encourage the fraudsters with no pride or interest in their own culture or history.

I'd expect them to come in and deny or deflect the obvious truth but you should keep this in mind when reading their nonsense in the future. Writing in English doesn't make you an Englishman, and proposing stupid, nonsensical etymologies for Yoruba words certainly doesn't make you a Yoruba person either.

C'mon bro!

I believe the depth and breadth of knowledge that has been shared by major contributors on this topic so far is way too intimate for anyone who is not Yoruba to posess, unless they are doing a copy and paste from a book on Yoruba.

We agreed not to push or advocate anyone beliefin where Yoruba originated but allow the sounds and letters to lead us wherever it will.

Please, join and contribute to our learning in here. Share in the optimism and dont dismiss the efforts prematurely.

prexios: i feel your Ascension, big bros.
let me make some terrestrial guesses, as usual, drawing inspirations from your resource:
origin seems to me like ori -source and gin-sharp. i don't want to make a guess because that is sort of accessorized. could it be an inflection? Gin is like ari-gin-ni, he sees sharply, arin-gin-ni, he walk sharply. then arin-gin-ni gin-ni woja: he walk briskly to the market.

I will start categorizing my letters and words along their Physical/Metaphysical value; this will help.

R is the letter which condenses the spark of impulse or intuitive receptors originating in the metaphysical realm. In its state of inertia, undisturbed, it remains letter R.

When activated by an impulse it will have application or function. This function will then occur as words in the form of Ra, Ri, Re, Ro, Ru, and some other broader extensions. This application is the exertion of the spark into a manifest function, an action!

The same applies to G. The spark finds physical application in Ga, Gi, Ge, Go, Gu, ati bebe lo.

So every letter exist as a spirit or a spark of intuition. Every word is a manifestation of sparks coming into fruition to express physical action.

Therefore in Yoruba tongue the root spirit or flaming spark is usually given emphasis in the sound and usually encapsulated in vowels, pre and post. Look at

Ori (head). The root is R.
Oriki, Oruko, Orukun, Orun, Orun, Orun. (praisename, name, knee, sun, heaven, neck).

So from here we can safely deduce that letter R in Yoruba carries the spirit value or equivalency for the function ORIGIN or that which serves as the SOURCE for something else or upon which some other thing SUBSISTS; sort of a Dependent/Independent exchange.

Therefore we should seek letter R to inspire and grant us the intuition for finding subsistence (praying on knees - oRukun) or to make offerings for our ancestors - iRu'bo.

prexios: hey dear brother,

As to the totem thing, you are very right about it, hence said we are thinking likewise.

Erin is a function of migration, and it sands for the regal position of the emigrants.

Wow!! This is a hook into the history of Yoruba dynasties. Ive never before heard anyone give it such a concise and complete sense.

Ekun is for the tribe whose totem is the leopard. But you and i know that the same word idemtifies the lion with the Yoruba. i wish that amo4ce could see i intended him to see Ejigbo-mekun as "two search parties of omo-ekun," that is, lion whelp. But then he has left for "Egypt." I wish he will drop his disdain for those called the Oyinbo. he's really offended.

I thought Kiniun is the formal identity for Lion.

Agbo as the totem of the Esos is a beautiful one. i want you to hold on to it, it is telling you that Agbo to the ancient yorubas has to do with Igbo, quest. Agbo is the seeker. You will not understand it that way except you are from Awori. it is the Aworis that says "kilomi-gbo?" where other Yorubas would say "Kilo nwa?" That tells me that Agbo is a noun form of Igbo or Owa. Whats the title of the Ijesha king again? What has that got to do with Esho?

Now the Egba praisepoem would say,
Ologini lo romo-ekun o, awa rawa ri rawa!

We have to do more study on the Agbo. Here is some of what I have read here in Nairaland, that:

1. The field commander of the Esos is Aare. The Eso totem (Orile) is ramhead. So the totem authority is Aare himself.

2. In Roman mythologies, Ares or Aries is symbolized by a ramhead.

So given what you said, against this theory of a connection between Aare/Aries, I ask for more clarification.


On the Ijesha, I thought their totem is Okin - lovebird. Part of the oriki for Onibokun include a song about Okin.

"Okin lo lori eye igbee, O kaare.
Iwo lo lori omo yeye re aiye a ye o."

The lovebird is the most beautiful bird in the wilderness, You are praiseworthy.
You are the leader of your lineage may you prosper.

every place or historical word have something to offer us in Yoruba history, therefore, if we want the "popular believe" to order our steps, we limit ourselves and repeat what everyone already know. i don't think we are growing like that, but comparing ideas we grow and form common strands that may stand the test of time.

Now that we have the word Igbo, what does that tell us about our nearest neighbour to the east? if we can look to a distance in the cradle crescent to point and claim, what shall we do with clearer information like this? One info i came across sometimes ago declared that the Igbo in Ife tradition should not be mistaken for the Eastern people by that name. that's the scholar's limits. happy weekend bros.

The word Igbo is popular in Yoruba language and depending on the sound can range in meaning from forest, hemp, head-butt, a scrub, and so on.

The Igbo of the Ife story is not synonymous or same as the modern day Igbo tribe and people of Eastern Nigeria.

The Igbo of Ife are the riverine people currently in the coastal communities of Ondo state.

This is not the proper spot to talk about why the the identity of the Eastern Nigerian tribe was rewritten and changed from Ibo to Igbo, it is a discussion for politics, but the drive behind it was for the inferrence you drew and a deliberate act to sit itself as the pre-occupant of Yorubaland. The author of the revision was no other than Chinua Achebe. While the name change was successful the competition failed.

If you want to allude to a universal brotherhood, iwill agree that Yoruba share origin with Igbo people, just as we do with everyone else on planet earth. Outside of that, we are on the extreme polarities from one another.

Tony, i have no clue what OREGUN mean but I believe it shares word signature with Origin.

I use root letters to disassemble words when i need meaning and application. In this case the root will be RGN.

In Yoruba alphabets, what does Ra, Gi, Ni, mean? Nothing! We have alphabets whose letters are very opaque.

Lettrrs of alphabets should have life and energy, they represent sound and emotion coming out of the solar plexus. Symbolically this is tied to crucifixion but thats a discussion for some other day.

Our alphabets are devoid of spirit. Perharps we will uncover something through these discussions.

Prexios welcome back. I wonder what you wrote that earned you a ban.


How much do you know about Yoruba totems?

Here are four I know, need to get others. Explain their roots and add more if you have recollections.

Erin - elephant - the totem of royal dynasties.
Ekun - leopard - the totem of Aare.
Agbo - ramhead - the totem of Esos (cavalry).
Agbon - wasp - the totem of infantry warriors.

Long time TOH

amor4ce: I got my understanding of the Hamitic Hypothesis from

The Hamitic Hypothesis; Its Origin and Functions in Time Perspective. Edith R. Sanders. The Journal of African History, Vol. 10, No. 4 (1969), pp. 521-532.

Tony Spike, thanks for the links. I will try and see what I can learn from them.

MetaPhysical, my response to your mail seems to have been blocked, so no further communication from me till further notice.

I now leave this thread and nairaland, partly to concentrate more on my blog and the re-drafting of that yoruba history article.

Im sorry amor4ce. I will investigate that and respond to you.

Tony Spike: Just an examination of Metaphysical's observation...

Aborigine > A-B-R-G-N
Agboniregun > A-GB-N-R-G-N

In Yoruba, r'egun means to stay behind/remnant/source/gatherer.
Could Oniregun have meant the one who gathered them (the people) together?
Agboniregun could have very well meant Agbo Oniregun, the place (or compound) where they gathered them together

#NB: The two words have consonants ending with R-G-N which could very well coincide with the word ORIGIN. Since origin means THE SOURCE, It would be logical that their meaning are as follows:

AB ORIGIN (Latin) - from the source
AGBO ONIREGUN (Yoruba) - The place from where they gathered them

By fixing this, it means AB(Latin) and AGBO(Yoruba) actually have the same meaning. Yorubas often ask this question, "Agbo ile wo ni oti wa?" translated as "Where do you originate from?".

This is interesting....

Ubi(Latin) - Where
ibo(Yoruba) - Where


I suspect the source of these similarities occurred at a time when Greek was gradually transiting into Latin. Sometime pre-1 AD, the influence of ancient Kemet is no doubt active here too. For anyone interested, you can use google translator to aid you in getting other words. By the way, what does the word OREGUN mean in Yoruba? I'm suspecting it is the corruption of the word origin.

Interesting!

Agboniregun i believe is Orunmila. He is said to be the original man and a witness to the act of creation. This will be explored and discussed in much detail later.

Although we are looking at the influence in Egypt/Canaan, this word must have originated with the Canaans. Principal objects of worship or acts of birth and creation seem to come from Canaan while the rites of worship and ceremony of living and death come from Egypt.

In the verse of worship that goes
Aboru, Aboye, Abosise.

I believe could actually stand for the worship of Horus and Isis.

Ab in Yoruba is authority, or father, or head.

So the verse woul be an invocation of the authority of Horus and Isis.

I could be wrong but its just my theory.

[quote author=tpia@]Could be greco-roman i suppose, not sure without further study.

If there was accesss to pre-modern yoruba lexicon, it might be possible to get a general idea of when such words entered the yoruba vocabulary, or if they've always been there.

For example, a study of yoruba language/s in the 15th century or prior.

Yoruba in the 17th and 18th centuries, etc.[/quote]If the words were donated Yoruba then Greek could not have been the source. I say this because in our beliefs Agboniregun is primal and had to have been with our ancestors from time immemorial, part of altar worship and rites is dedicated to Agboniregun.

So where did Greek get Aborigene?

Like i said Yoruba and Greek dipped foot in the same cultural stream at one point in ancient history. If Yoruba was domestic to that culture, the it was the donor of these words amd Greek was the recipient. If on the other hand Yoruba was a foreigner in that culture, then Agboniregun was a donation to us as Aborigene was a donation to Greek.

Our challenge is finding what our status was. Our arts, the bronze and terracotta, are the same style with the Greeks and even in cults the pantheons are parallel matches.

This is no accident and cannot be attributed to contacts during colonialism, it prefates that by centuries. Following in Frobeunis shocking remark, maybe Ife was the lost Atlantis afterall !

Tony Spike: There could be more of such words because mimicking Yoruba tonal interpretations using latinized characters would have led to losses of some alphabets or even vowels!

Good point. There were plenty of lost words and vowels in the attempt to transcribe the sounds to latin script.

Several pronounciation templates were used; spanish, english, portuguese, french, german, to structure Yoruba alphabets. What they could not equate were excluded.

Tony Spike: All I can say is ....hmmmmmn

Lol. Ive been doing that a lot over the past three pages of inputs from diverse and insightful contributors.

I hope prexios did not abandon the thread.

9jacrip: Baba, your first line aptly summarizes my argument - Let's look from within Africa

Definitely, civilizations mixed and borrowed from one another - there was trade, war, voluntary migration/emigration, transfer of knowledge through written scripts to mention a few so Egyptian civilization, apart from influencing other civilizations/cultures also borrowed from earlier civilizations.

Having said the above, we must then say, since Egypt served as the gateway for other civilizations to filter into Africa as well as a melting-pot, then our focal point should be Egypt with not much reference beyond that since whatever Yoruba must have 'derived' from civilizations outside Africa must have possibly been corrupted or altered - I don't know if that makes sense?
Your argument makes everything clearer for better understanding but please do not get me wrong, I didn't say Yoruba evolved over-time independently.

@ the bolded: Has there ever been any similarities/semblance in religion, science, traditions and even art with civilizations beyond Egypt? As far as religion goes, humans overtime developed belief systems, all over the world and I can say this urge to believe in something is why virtually all the religions in the world seem alike in arrangement - Egyptian gods, their order, folklore has been ascribed to be similar to Christianity, even Buddhism has certain similarities with Christianity to mention a few. So, does that then mean Jews/Christianity migrated from Egypt or Egyptians migrated from M.East? Or given how the Greeks had a pantheon of Gods, it means the Greeks migrated to SouthW Nigeria since Yoruba have a pantheon too? I would suggest we cancel religion, Yoruba didn't tout much of science but we rather look at art works, any similarities with those of M.East? Romans? Greeks?

All of the prophets of Jew/Christian/Islam, without exception, sojourned in either one of Egypt or Jerusalem.

There are two axis in the development of world religions. The Western axis is Egypt/Canaan; the Eastern axis is Babylon/Mesopotamia.

Greek knowledge came from the East and Roman from the West, therefore consolidating the arts, cults, science, religion, all in one central culture and making it convenient for it to monopolize knowledge and secrets and overthrow Empires and impose itself as the center of human civilization. No other culture had this advantage of a double dip.

The cross-match between Yoruba words and Greco/Roman, I believe from my thinking, is a validation of a colocated influence in the Western axis. This is supported by the cross-match in tongue, arts, cults, pantheons, rites, between Yoruba and Egypt/Canaan.

This contact between Yoruba and Egypt/Canaan is firm, the Greek presence is only a collateral and irrelevant in our culture, unless it can be proven that we had a direct contact and inter-relationship with them which resulted in a high scale of cultural exchange.

The challenge we all face, given our different point of views, is:

1. Do we agree that a proto-cultural relationship exist identifying Egypt/Canaan with Yoruba?

2. Was that relationship domestic or was it foreign?

3. If it was foreign then what were the modals for it and what were the trade routes?

4. If it was domestic, then where was the origin abode and why the separation?

Tony Spike: @ Metaphysical, i just cross-referenced these words. Kindly add them to your list

Oro (Latin) - speak, pray
oro (Yoruba) - words, say


ila (Latin) - to bring about division
ila (Yoruba) - to divide

Done.

If we have contributors who understand other WesternEuropean languages beside English it would help. Not only for explaining the etymology of these words but also that the Portuguese had written accounts of their contact with Yoruba before England did. Going through their archives might help clarify on a lot of things.