₦airaland Forum

TheGoodJoe:
"He's (Pellegrini) been my footballing father and I know that he likes me and, for me, of course I would like to continue with him because he's given me all the confidence in the world,"... Isco.

As I said, this is not a debate.

Finito.

your argument sef tire me. How do you know a player is being groomed? Is it not by monitoring positive changes in his style of play? What do you expect Isco to say? That was his coach who made him a regular for his team

TheGoodJoe:
It is you that is here that knows the instructions Pellegrini gave Isco and the one he did not. Baffling.

if Pellegrini was giving him instructions to stop ball hogging the point is that he didnt translate it to his play on the pitch which means he didn't learn it and which ultimately means Pellegrini did not teach him

TheGoodJoe:
From wiki
Málaga
In mid-July 2011, after helping Valencia's B-team return to the third level by scoring 15 goals, Isco signed a five-year contract with Málaga CF after the club activated his buy-out clause of €6 million.


Please eh, Pellegrini groomed Isco. It is not a debate. He signed a boy and groomed him to a superstar.

from wiki
A product of Valencia CF's youth system,
Isco made his debut with the first team
on 11 November 2010, against UD
Logroñés for the campaign's Copa del Rey,
scoring two goals in a 4–1 home win.[5]
[6] Previously, he spent one full season
with the reserves in Segunda División B,
netting once in 26 games and suffering
relegation.
Isco played his first La Liga match on 14
November 2010, featuring 20 minutes in
a 2–0 home win against Getafe CF after
coming on as a substitute for Aritz
Aduriz.[7]


you should say the entire truth sometimes

TheGoodJoe:
Why is it Malaga that survived relegation that signed Isco and not Real Madrid, hence he was groomed and ready to go? This is not a debate.

Finito.

he was more concerned with play time, besides at that point it was Barca who wanted him but Guardiola pulled out because of Bojan and since he wanted game time he went to Malaga, Isco's story is one that I know very well and you just messed up by saying Pellegrini groomed him. People thought Pellegrini would tell him to reduce his ball hogging style of play but he did nothing, he just used his talents to better his system, last two seasons that particular stuff really really affected Isco's game time and he had to reinvent his game all over again

TheGoodJoe:
It is not a debate. Pellegrini groomed Isco into a superstar. You can say he had talent. Just like Iheanacho showed talent in the U17. However, the grooming happened under Pellegrini. As I said, this is not even a debate.

you are not arguing with facts, you are just saying that he was groomed by Pelegrini finish, I am here showing you he made his debut for Valencia and played a full season for them

TheGoodJoe:
He had talent but he was not groomed. Iheanacho had talent but he was not groomed. That was what Pellegrini did for them. The grooming of Sterling happened under Brendan Rogers.

ofcourse Sterling was playing for QPR's feeder team, that one is different, way way different. If he was not yet groomed do you think he would be playing for Valencia's first team? Valencia were top 6 sure bankers in that period so they wouldn't just play anybody for the fun of it. Isco developed in Valencia but you can argue that Pellegrini showed faith in him, but there is no way you can say that he groomed Isco, I knew you would bring this up

TheGoodJoe:
Are you not being comical? You asked who did Pellegrini groom at Malaga, I gave you Isco and now you are talking of Isco playing for Valencia academy.

Pellegrini signed a boy from Valencia academy and groomed him into one of the best players in the World. Stop bending facts. Pellegrini groomed Iheanacho too. Will you say because Vieira worked with Iheanacho in the academy that Pellegrini was not the one who groomed Iheanacho.

Isco was groomed by Pellegrini. Funny you did not know that.

Finito.

but the thing is Isco was already playing for the Valencia first team before he was signed, he was already quality

safarigirl:
oh, was that all you said? Or that is the one that best suits your narrative?

See, you are still defending yourself, it says a lot.

you want facts right? I am giving 'em to you. You have been making baseless comments since and I kept on ignoring them but at some point I need to put the record straight. Now you can continue saying whatever you want I am done with you

Mickael2:
there are so many things working against us.

The most important of all is the fact that they have a new coach. Like theGoodJoe already pointed out, they will watch that first leg and realize that they could have won, they played a whole lot better than we did, they will duly blame it on the failed coach and look to impress.


If we on the other hand invite thesame set of players that we normally do, we will lose. What's there to play for? Who doesn't want to face Argentina? For now I am not concerned about the result, we most definelty won't win, but if we play well then I am fine, if we don't....

cc Safarigirl. This was what I said, if we play the same set of players we wouldn't win, I believe it was Mujtahida that pointed out that we might rest players and I added that we still wouldn't win. Guess what happend? The coach introduced Aina, Ogu, Etebo, Iheanacho, Nwakaeme(anyone else?) and we managed a draw. Get your facts straight

Mickael2:
Will you believe me if I tell you that WE WILL NOT DEFEAT ALGERIA?

cc Safarigirl, this was the first thing I said about the Algeria match, do you now understand why you sound so silly and childish?

safarigirl:
you are the one sounding ridiculous here trying to defend the fact that we did not lose like you predicted

This is such a pathetic move, not just pathetic, but shameless. And to what end? To say you were right? To gloat?

And you call yourself a fan of the team, we ought to flush all of you out of this thread with your ill will, you people are worse than the plastic fans

ok, I hope you had a nice Christmas

TheGoodJoe:
Just look at. Why Madrid? Let me give you one name groomed by Pellegrini in Malaga.

Isco.

Go and read on Pellegrini before arguing.

For you to even ask this question and talk cornered is nothing but laughable.

you see why I said I have cornered you. Isco was developed by the Valencia youth system and made his senior debut for Valencia. He was actually bought for a tidy sum by Malaga. So if Ceballos comes good now you will say that it was a madrid coach that groomed him?

safarigirl:
so, you have been watching highlights to count imaginary goals ......hahaha, bros, I commiserate with you. It must feel terrible to have a failed prediction

we actually didn't win the game. And sounding ridiculous isn't going to change the fact that we were poor against Algeria now will it?

TheGoodJoe:
Long story.

Simple, a master of La Liga promoted Iheanacho and played Iheanacho in his team. You do not know jack about technical play when compared to a Legend like Pellegrini who has coached and groomed some of the respected talents of the La Liga.

The rest you are talking is long story.

You can write Algeria until tomorrow. Those that matter, the coach of the Algerians and a respected journalist there told you Iheanacho was good. You can shout poor from today until tomorrow. Those that know more than you have made their points.

Finito.

ok. Name two players that Pellegrini groomed in either Malaga or Madrid. I have you cornered here

goldfish80:
Algeria could have won that game. Islam Slimani Yakubu'ed a glorious chance to seal the game, remember?
Rohr after the game complained about the teams inability to hold on to the ball.
That game wasn't our finest game in the series.

the thing tire me

Lucque:
Even Messi has bad days
...however rare.... D best teams in d world have terrible days too... Rohr is a human being and so too are d players... ND der will b days wen his game plan would fail... It's not rili a new concept in football

this I am not arguing with anymore but isn't it silly for us to assume that the game against Algeria was a good game like Safarigirl is trying to make us believe right now?

safarigirl:
hahahaha....I'm laughing at you right now

Algeria "could have scored three or four goals against us"..... You no dey even shame to talk am, instead of you to admit your folly and eat humble pie, you are still forming coulda woulda shoulda

Ha! You people are irredeemable.

so are you saying the could not have scored 4 or 5? Or do you need the highlights again?

TheGoodJoe:

In one of the games for Leicester City, Iheanacho played on the left side. He can also play on the right side. Iheanacho is not only competing for the center forward role. As for Iheanacho not being technical enough for the La Liga, I totally disagree because one of the master coaches of the La Liga, coached Iheanacho and he felt he was good enough for his side. Pellegrini will not promote a player from the academy and give him playing time if he was not technically sound.

As for Okazaki, his work rate off the ball makes him an asset. Leicester City spends a lot of time off the ball and needs players who can work hard to keep the team secure. So it is about strategy also. Not just on the ball talent.

Gray had it rough under Shakespeare. Under I think Unsworth, he looked a rare gem. He is a bit on the fence playing for Puel. Team tactics and strategy affects players performances and need time to settle.

Finito.

which game was that? And please tell us how he performed in that position? It was similar to his performance against Algeria right? Is that now his yardstick? That performance was piss poor. Lukaku has played on the left this season too, does that mean anything?


I repeat that Iheanacho cannot play there. Most teams in the Spanish La Liga play a 4-3-3 formation which would make it difficult for Iheanacho to thrive, and wait when did Pelligrini become one of the masters of Spanish football tactics? Very very funny comment indeed. Of course you can go ahead and cite his time with Madrid and Malaga but is Capello also a spanish football specialist? Or is Tata Martino? I am pretty sure Pellegrini didn't win any league title with Real Madrid. The work he did with Malaga is commendable though.

Let's check Ozil at Arsenal. He doesn't put pressure at all, but he is still accomodated in the team. You can argue that Arsenal holds the ball a lot then there is also Arnautovic, whose defensive contributions have been criticised over and again but the team still accepts him because his offensive contribution still outweighs his shortcomings. Stop the long talk about Okazaki chasing the ball and using it to give yourself this false hope, Vardy can chase the ball, teams can play with two defensively redundant players and still win so long as said players contribute well enough in attack. The problem here is that even when Okazaki is subbed in, he still scores! So the truth here is that he can do what Iheanacho cannot do(press well enough) and can also do what he can do(goal poaching), this is something you need to start understanding. Meanwhile on a lighter note, I thought you were the one who spent weeks pointing out that Iheancho was a pressing machine against Algeria last August? So how come he hasn't been pressing so well? You even said then that he presses more than Kayode, brilliant!

safarigirl:
this your question is funny.

Is this the latest line of argument? You think we cannot win SA by 3 goals? You want us to start discussing AFCON qualifiers that will resume in September?

Please, we are looking forward to the World Cup, don't drag local AFCON to the discussion so that you can make a moot point and wave your "I told you so" flag, I'm surprised you are even still talking after the team rubbed mud in your face following their performances against Algeria and Argentina.

Anyway, at least you are less frequent these days....

after the performance against Algeria? Algeria could have defeated us by 3 or 4 clear goals, what part of that performance was great? And after that match against Argentina I clearly said the boys did very very well so what are you going on about?

Meanwhile I asked a hypothetical question, it is not necessarily something that will happen tomorrow but it is something that will everly happen, we don't wait for a patient to pass out before we start checking his blood pressure

junnyjake:
We are 3rd. Libya put 5 past Seychelles.

Don't forget 2 teams are now to qualify from each group with the expansion of the tourney.

is it two teams or like 3 best second placed teams? If they take two teams from each group wouldnt that exceed the normal number?

Icon4s:
See, I don't even care of we crash out at the group stage.

The fact remains that for the first time since after Westerhoff we are having a coach that understands the elements of team building. And the NFF should try and keep Rohr as we build up for the 2022 WC.

The transformation in the team Rohr has achieved within his short spell thus far is very remarkable.

So let nobody come here and start shouting "we said it, we said it". It doesn't hold water because we are even the least seeded team in that group.

I have already made a comparison of this team with that of the 90s and how this team falls short. But that does not stop me from expecting a good outing for the boys.

I have been waiting for a comment like this.


Now you forget that we are currently second in our group for the AFCON qualifiers and our best bet would be defeating SA by 3 clear goals in South Africa! So here comes the question, if we fail to qualify for the AFCON and also perform poorly at the World Cup should he still keep his spot as the coach?

TheGoodJoe:
Not short term or long term. Nacho was up against two quality players. He is up against Jamie Vardy who is a respected hitman. Okazaki is good also. Mahrez and Gray are all good players. Give the young man time. The under development talk is not true.

Just one question, if he is not good enough to bench Okazaki then how good is he really? Not so good.

You can stop mentioning Mahrez and Gray because these guys do not occupy the same position with Iheanacho. We should be mentioning Slimani, Ulloa, Okazaki and Vardy and if he is not good enough to bench three out of these four guys then we have an issue. Right now though I believe the Epl is his best bet, he can't really excel in the La Liga where technical football reigns supreme because of his poor first touch so he should look for a loan move that will reinvent his game, personally I wouldnt mind him moving to a championship team, Wolves, Cardiff and Leeds arent fumbling and their football is pleasing to the eyes, the problem now is who wants him? Like one great Brazilian star said, its not about what is in the papers, the question is who is willing to pay the money and take him? Right now nobody seems willing to do that

goldfish80:
You're the real enemy of the team since youre happy and satisfied with the situation most of our reliable players find themselves.

You claim to be a fan of the team but it doesnt agitate your mind that our attacking players have managed to score just 6 goals collectively in the first half of a season preceding the world cup.

Sometimes I wonder what have happened to the African youth. Why is the African youth incapable of questioning the status quo? This is the reason the older older generation believe the youths are not ready to take over.

Is it so hard to look at international best practices and demand same for your your country?

This impoverished thought as exhibited by this writer is the reason why the world view Africa as continent as people with relatively lower IQ than the rest of the world .

you replied the guy, you have serious time

forgiveness:
And who was the first?

I remember Sani Emmanuel

forgiveness:
To be frank with you, Ejike was the third choice behind Kayode and Uche Nwofor.

2011? The one that we lost to France abi? How come you removed Sani Emmanuel? I know Sani Emmanuel was the first sub in that France game followed by Ejike, Kayode did not even smell that match

MetalJigsaw:
You're totally wrong sir. Messi is the general overseer of both the Catalans (Barça) and the Albeceleste (his national team) as a matter of fact. Ronaldo is good but the small-statured magician is a wizard in the beautiful game of soccer. He posseses all Ronaldo's abilities but the reverse is far from the case. mind you, a Real Madrid fan but I never see any reason to be sentimental and decieve myself.

I believe He's that small- statured soccer magician one Argentine man (perhaps a sorcerer) spoke about that would exist, a number of decades ago.

I am not sure you under my position in this case

Icon79:
Mickael2, so I presume that you're a Barca fan who isn't necessarily a Messi fan, eh? Wow, you and I are direct opposites

Without trying to rebut every single point you made, because many of them are valid, but here's the bottom line: Messi makes everyone better. To understand where I am coming from, just select a combined Real Madrid/Barcelona first eleven and tell me how many Barca players you'll have that team.


O pari

I am not arguing the fact that Messi makes everyone better but what I am against is you saying everybody else is poor. Messi's presence on the pitch did not help Pique's defensive abilities, like I said everything attackwise moves through Messi and that we cannot argue with, if you remove him the second goal and the third goal wouldn't happen but Barca has the best defensive record in the league, other players need to be appreciated. You can't draw a combined XI without Ter Stegen, Umtiti, Alba, Busquets and personally Paulinho so what's the fuss all about?

forgiveness:
Scored goals with assists.

where and when? I remember Ejike was our second choice striker in that competition, so where was Kayode?

forgiveness:
First of all, I do not think Nwakali should be included among players fighting for that slot because he down the pecking order.

Players like Joel, Sanusi, Ajagun and Raheem are far far far ahead of him.

However, it seems you assumed we are still in 2009 when Kayode played for the U17. Bros, clear ya eyes we are in 2017 going to 2018. Therefore, you should be aware that many water don pass under bridge. The boy has gone from grass to grace. He was even better than Kelechi Iheanacho who flopped big time in the U20 WC stage but Kayode shined in both the 2011 and 2013 edition of the U20 WC. And you should be aware that many star players of today sprang out from Kayode's set. Players that flopped big time then but today they are far far better than Kayode.

Players like Eric Dier, John Stones, Harry Kane, Saul, and Griezman were nobodies then but today they are in the ascendary.

So, do we judge these players based on their performance in the age grade competition now?

Or do we judge some players based on past under age glory?

Were is Sani Emmanuel today?

Open ya eyes, these players are top players now hence their under age performance is inconsequential.

The most important thing about spotting a talented player is consistency and if we go by that Kayode is a better player than Nwakaeme and Kelechi Iheanacho because he has being consistent over the YEARS.

The fact that you have expectations on Nwakaeme who struggled for two good seasons in the Israeli league before he managed to score double digit goals last season and two seasons ago showed that you are not aware Kayode was the third highest goal scorer in the same Israeli league when both played. That was even his first and last season before he moved to Austria were he scored double digit goals in his first season before he went to become the Austrian league top goal scorer and best player of the same league.

This is what scouts are looking for in players and that was what Newcastle, Manchester City etc saw and came calling for his services.

Abi, Guardiola no get brain to have sold Iheanacho and gone for and Overhyped player?

If Iheanacho was that exceptional, I don't think Guardiola would have preferred Raheem and Gabriel Jesus over him. And to add salt to injury Guardiola personally placed a call to a player overhyped in this thread. Meaning he rates Kayode highly that the exceptional Kelechi Iheanacho.

Is that not an irony?

Wake up! Iheanacho has to improve else he will be forgotten so soon. Likewise, Kayode has to prove himself in the la liga less he becomes an outcast.


Moreover, in a sane country Iheanacho can't smell the bench of a national team in this condition.

It is only in Nigeria, sentiments overrides common sense.

How did Kayode impress in 2011 U20?

Icon79:
Bro Cristiano Ronaldo is supposed to be the best player in the world, so we expected him to show class, especially considering his supporting cast. On current form, how many Barca players can start on combined Real Madrid/Barcelona team? Probably only Leo Messi! Tells you how good Messi is to carry this team to victory.

They said he can't do it without Xavi and Iniesta. Today he's doing it.
They said he can't do it without Neymar. Today he's doing it.
In today's football, there's only one player you can't do it without. And his name is Leo Messi. If you doubt me ask the Argentine national team!

#Wow. I love that line ... will go and post it on twitter


O pari

I want to understand something here, how come Messi didn't open the scoring here? Suarez's goal had NOTHING to do with Messi, it was great play from Busquets, Rakitic and Roberto, however here you want us all to believe that every other barca player is a bench-piece at best for other clubs. Messi's goal was a penalty which he didn't even get himself, it was Pique's header that got the spotkick but of course nobody else plays football in Barce except Leo Messi. The third goal would not have been a goal if Navas had better gloves and guess what? It was scored by Vidal but you want us to understand that these guys are useless. If you truly watched this match(and the last match against Derpotivo) you would see that Iniesta's class is still there and guess what? We dominated both games like we have never done all season without prime Iniesta. You said Busquets has slowed down? Maybe that's what you want to believe just so that you put him down and exhault Messi but bottomline is that 19 other teams would kiill their coaches just to get Busquets to play a season for them. I need not mention Ter Stegen who denied Ronaldo and Bale certain goals or maybe Umtiti who has been the best CB in the Spanish league this season or Alba or even to a lesser extent, Roberto. These guys have been doing very well, we can argue that Suarez has been off(he has been picking up lately) and Rakitic isn't the guy he once was, so we can say Messi is carrying our attack but saying that he is the only guy doing it all for the team is false, he is contributing his quota and then some which is a great thing but do you think he can do it alone without these guys I mentioned? Then go and check Tata Martino's season

Icon79:
Let me ask again, where the hell was Cristiano Ronaldo? Did anyone see him today? Anywhere?? If you see him, please bring him down to Santiago Bernabeu ... his team needs him!
#ElClasico



O pari

Ronaldo was lively, not his best match but definetly not his worst.


And this is rather ironic, you were the one defending Iwobi the other day saying Arsenal as a team performed badly, now you are picking out Ronaldo(who had a better first half than Messi, well maybe not but definetly close) to blame him for Madrid's collective shutdown in the second half?

Oasis007:


Thanks Bro. I really don't want to, but it seems someone needs to call him to order. He's too quick to bash anyone that's having a contrary View(s) to his Opinion(s) or Belief.

I didn't know Jarus at all, but is it wrong for him to contribute on this Thread?! Saying he's being naive for presenting Facts and Features to backup his Argument is too Harsh!

This is not what I am arguing, you did nothing wrong when you corrected him, the basic point here is that there are some monikers who love using strong words, sometimes I even call them out for it but the point is don't let it linger, they say that a word is enough for the wise, just drop a word for them and let them learn from it