₦airaland Forum

Joebie:
Please give me Siasia's record as a SE coach.

Abi u think say coaching at a junior level the same.

I will not answer this your question because it makes no sense, no offence

goldfish80:
Kalika was the tactical brains while Siasia was the figure head. Sometimes you need such a set up.

As a matter of fact we were on the verge of being booted out of the U20 championship in 2005 after drawing the first game against Brazil and loosing the second to South Korea. The Nff at that point booked the teams return ticket in advance prior to our last group match against a star studded Switzerland team with guys already playing at top level like Djourou and Senderous (Yes, he was highly rated at this point. Arsenal fought off Real Madrid to sign him).

At this point, Kalika hooked up with Siasia. We won that game 3:0. And subsequently, Kalika was detailed to scout and analyse opponents and suggest tactical formations to be applied.

I found it astonishing to learn that Siasia had no idea about the teams we were to face prior to that tournament. This much was revealed by Kalika in an interview I read years back.

Siasia is overrated, I'm sorry to say.

I didn't want to take this up but ok. Was Kalika at the Rio Olympics? No. Now one of the characteristics of a tactically sound manager is his ability to work with whatever he has at that particular time. Coming to the Rio games Etebo was our main attacking threat, he got injured in the first game yet the team continued strong without him. Azubuike got suspended and if not for Sadiq Umar we would have defeated Germany, easily. So the reason why we finished third was not because the coach was poor, infact the only reason why we finished third was because of the tactical strength of our bench and their ability to devise a working solution in the face of injury to key players, withdrawal of players and lack of preparation. If Iheanacho was in that match against Germany he would have buried two chances atleast and we would be singing his praises right now, was Kalika part of that team I ask again.


On the other hand we have Rohr, the only game where he had to deal with injuries and unavailiability of key players guess what? We lost and we lost woefully without a single shot on target IIRC, what was our excuse? He is still new to the job but Siasia on his own part without even preparing well enough took an average side(after the withdrawal of several key players) despite further injuries to key players and still got to the semifinals. We can fault Siasia's team selection but saying that his success was because of Kalika is ridiculous

TheGoodJoe:
You can say push Omeruo who has more physique but that would be playing him in an unfamiliar role. Azeez would have been the goof. He was going to be light, not fast enough in a game of such intensity. With the hard tackles coming in, he would have been a goner.

You are yet to say why Azeez would have been a success. Except that he did not come in. It was too fierce for him.

Azeez is not fast?! I can now understand that you have never watched Azeez before.

Omeruo has played the DMF role before. I mean even Ramos and Pepe have been deployed to the DMF role and they did rather well

forgiveness:
Why was Onazi a pain in the neck for the French?
Why was he wanted out?

Was it his attacking and running attributes or his tackling and dirty work attributes?

Don't mix the two?

If it was the former, Onazi was never a threat because the French had marked out our major threat in Ahmed Musa.

The later was the reason he was kicked out and as soon as he left, the French had a free ride onward.

So, my point is, Azeez would have offered both perfectly. Go and check his tackling statistics in the la Liga.

We needed someone who could control the game, give passes and at the same time tackle wella.

everybody(well except theGoodJoe) knows that Mikel and Keshi goofed big time, that was the wrong move any day of the week. In fact it would have been better if we subbed in another CB and pushed Omeruo to the DMF position because he can hassle and has the physicality to cope instead of throwing in the tall snail, this is not even a debate

goldfish80:
Take away Simon Kalika, Siasia will be exposed as a mediocre tactician.

great, so why didn't we just hire Kalika?

forgiveness:
Is there wing backs in the 3-4-3 formation?

I honestly thought you were trying to be serious

Quick question, who is the wingback for Chelsea then? Or that 3-4-3 is just on paper? Then who is the RB?

forgiveness:
Oga! Ajagun don dey play everywhere for field since he singlehandedly led Dolphin to win the league. He continued at Greece and Eredivise.


Why did Yannis-Anastasiou deployed him in the RM position? It is because he has played him there before . Simple.
Meaning, he has been tried, tested and approved with a rubber stamp. GBAM!

Unlike, Joel Obi who has never been played as an AM in his whole career save one.

Abi, how many times did Joel Obi played as AMF over his career and when last?

If it's not necessarily about versatility then we should put Iheanacho on the LB position since he's left footed and since we need an urgent replacement.
He should have come in for Echiejile immediately he got injured. Don't you think so?


The point still remains that Ajagun is versatile and he continues to play in various positions regularly from season to seasons unlike Joel Obi who never played the AMF for 7 years. I am not saying he should not be tried but I am saying you don't just assume he can without been tested prior to the world Cup.


Point of correction, Vicmo is not playing as a wing back in Chelsea, he has so far played as the RM.


No bi transfermarkt or Google you take know Ajagun played for the same coach because you were never aware?

TheGoodJoe:
While watching the France VS Nigeria match, when Azeez was to come in to replace Onazi, I exclaimed. "They will kill him."

Luckily, Mikel Obi yelled to Keshi waving his hands that he should not bring in Azeez. I guess Mikel Obi envisioned what I thought. Deschamps set his boys to go for blood. Ambrose and Onazi were at the receiving end. That game was not one for Azeez.

Azeez would have fared a lot better than Gabriel Rueben did, Mikel did not try at all

Certitude:
On what basis is Siasia a better tactician... Is it on his performance with age grade team or ...? ain't getting u n d sir thegoodjoe. Siasia's success is due to the fact he plays inferior team...You never wonder why he usually flops when he plays a decent team..cos no tactics...It's all attack n attack... It seems beautiful football is the only tactical stuff to you...That nigg. couldn't take us to the nations cup twice because he is tactical...
.

you blame him for two nations cup failures where he took over for the last two games but if I blame Rohr for our woeful performance against SA you will say it is part of the rebuilding process? That he is just new to the job right? Fear God.


There are two things you should do, go and watch the match we played against Guinea, the draw and tell me if it in anyway compares to the woeful performance against SA, we had the chances in that game but the players missed them, it's just like blaming Pep for City's lack of a true finisher last season.

Then watch those two friendlies against Argentina, even the one we lost and see just how good tactically he is. We are not saying Siasia is a better a manager but better tactician? It is not even close

TheGoodJoe:
Mickael2, to answer your question, Siasia is a better tactician than Rohr.

someone said it is an unintelligent question and I am was just amazed. That Siasia is a better tactician is not even arguable, Rohr is the better manager I agree

Lazyerudite:
Members of this forum, I hail thee,
@Joebie is an epistle that you wrote concerning the 'foreign breed' nice one. @Micheal, football has never been 1+1, either moses got a freekick or he was allowed to beat his marker. He was obstructed but for you to use the term headless chicken means you are being too harsh. When he did the same against Cameroon and exchanged a pass with simon which lead to the 3rd goal, you did not say anything but suddenly come up with such harsh criticisms. You actually made me get interested in Onazi as I started watching his style of play. He might not be the best passer of the ball but he really is a workaholic. You keep clamouring for his removal but then we are all entitled to our opinion and I respect that. However try not to bring down someone's achievements just because they are not doing the "ideal' thing. Constructive criticism helps a lot but hey what do I know

there is one thing I do not even try, bringing up a players past just so I can rubbish it. I have never ever rubished Onazi's achievements for us, ever. However I dwell on the here and now.


Onazi is a workhorse no doubt, is he a good player? Definetly better than Agu but there are two issues. Play him as a DMF and he will not just sit and cover the back four, rather he would want to roam thus creating room for opposing players and that could be dangerous. Play him as the CMF and we see that his passing range and ability is not great and in most cases, instead of keeping it simple he would(without looking up) send one wild long pass to the wing. Now if Onazi can get a good coach like Mou who would put it into his head that being a DMF is about protecting your CBs and being a CMF is about recycling posession, no need trying to be too direct all the time then Onazi will be a lot better than the lot we have.

Mujtahida:
In another post you mentioned Siasia: well I never followed Siasia's time with the Eagles for many reasons I cannot now say.

Being a perfectionists (a streak which I have too) - doesn't at least to me-mean things have to be clean clean all the time. In fact I'd get bored if it's always like that(that's why I detest tiki taka but love jupp Hyncknes Bayern). And I realise - like we pointed out using Leow of Germany - that perfection takes time. Good effort + time= perfection. Look at the whole picture and give the man some time.

I think my understanding of one touch, two go passes differs from yours. Crisp passes from Balogun Mikel controls and lops for Ighalo. Ighalo turns his marker and buries the ball. If that is not one touch, two go then I'd like to know what is.

what of Keshi?

I love Tiki taka, so you should know my perception of pure football.


Ok, watch that goal Iheanacho scored against Zambia, is it in anyway related to Ighalo's goal? I could also mention other goals scored by City but you would argue it isn't club football.

Anyways for a coach that says he likes one touch two go, but somehow he keeps Iwobi, who is unarguably the best we have in that department on the bench or out on the wide for who? Moses Simon!!! Tor, it does not add up

Joebie:
And the ball just flew by itself towards Shehu's path.. Ironically, he played a huge part in that build up.
He was aware of Shehu's presence he two players on him but manage to roll the ball forward. His reaction after the collision is a proof. He looked straight to Shehu as the latter delivered the cross. That shows awareness. Look at the 6th second.. You have to look at the situation from different camera angles. Spectator side view does not tell the story.


Take note of the 6th second.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r02pWvPQ-1s

if he wanted to pass that ball the collision would not have happened, you can see he still wanted to continue chasing the ball. His run drew two defenders yes but he should have released the ball earlier, thank God the ball did not hit that defender

Joebie:
We've seen so much of Siasia, than Rohr, who is barely 14 months at the job. I still maintain that Rohr maintained a conservative approach during the qualifiers because what we had was working for us. We have been winning and was always on top of our group. Much is yet to be seen about Rohr in other situations. Did he say something like we will be shopping for a lot of new players? I'm not sure. I want to believe he sees the World Cup challenge as a whole different ball game.

Siasia has made some bad decisions tactically. I like his all attack playing philosophy but that does not always guarantee victory. Siasia has proven himself more at the junior levels.

you did not answer the question

Nigerdeltaboi:
please cut him some slack, I play as a winger and understand sometimes its difficult to look up and anticipate another player while trying to run at a fast pace with the ball on your feet. the guy nor be robot na

that is what differentiates a good winger from a great winger

Icon4s:
See me here clapping.
We need more of you here bro.

we will have friendlies soon. Where was the Senegal friendly played??

TheGoodJoe:
Rohr should also correct Victor Moses. In the first minute of the clip, there were two players in position to score but V. Moses chose to shoot from a tighter angle. The team needs sorting out because a lot of times it looks like we are playing choosing.

if I say this now they will say I am highly critical and that VicMo was playing to instructions by not passing the ball, sure beats me

AIG07:
laughing. They won't listen to you and if they do they won't agree.

Rohr is a good coach with some great managerial skills but lacking tactical wise. He therefore needs assistance which Salisu Yusuf may not be to render..

The earlier we admits this the better for us. Na siddon look mode I de now. I no go talk this matter again. Iwobi's goal did save us some blushes.

What would have happened if we were unable to get that goal after Iwobi's substitution or better still we went down by a goal immediately he was brought on?

Simple, we are here arguing the truth instead of looking for things to do about it before the world cup proper.


For all the members of team Tactical Rohr could y'all please answer this question- is/was Siasia a better tactical manager than Rohr?

Cc Joebie, Mujtahida, MilitaryControl, Chrismario, Icon4s

krattoss:
I think this is too rude for AFPOTY prospect to be addressed like this..

So u don't like the haavocs and earthquakes been caused by these two on opposite defenders

that goal we scored, did you see how Moses ran into that Zambian player as if he wasn't there? Definition? Headless chicken move

Mujtahida:
This your ultra critical style no be am oo. Life is not like that. On a lighter note how do you enjoy life Bro with this overly critical approach?
All our goals have come from one touch, two go(which for me is not satisfying if not mixed with some runs, dribbles and feints) and apart from the game against Zambia which other game did VicMo run like a headless chicken?(and still he made CAF best 11). Sometimes you make it seem as if it's robots that play this football not human beings.
And you don't see the players fighting for every ball like Peterside Idah observed on Channels TV on the fact that in this team there ain't no big boys who don't fight to recover balls and he specifically mentioned Mikel intercepting the run of a Zambian to underscore the point.

They say that the man is conservative. Now he said he doesn't believe in the winning team cliché. But still...
It's like even if you were the one to give Rohr a template for any given match, you'd still criticize him. Criticism is okay but it should be balanced. Truth is, I rarely see you praise anybody.

On the contrary Sir I admire perfection, that cup should be filled with water and not a single drop should touch the floor, that for me is proper planning, everything has to be perfect atleast to a certain capacity.

On the contrary, none of our goals that I can recall went the way of one touch two go(or one touch football). This goal against Zambia, VicMo was not going to pass that ball, God knows he was trying to beat his man and ran straight into him(perfect definition of a headless chicken to me), thank God for Shehu and there was no one touch football about it.
The goal against Cameroon, first goal? Not one touch, second goal? Corner kick, third goal? No, it was only the fourth goal that looked like a quasi-one touch football in the build up so our one touch football is not that great. Like someone pointed out though, maybe it's the African terrain and I will put that into consideration which is why someone like forgiveness said he won't take the team serious until we play a grade A friendly on a good pitch, let's leave it there for now.


Meanwhile I clearly said he is a good man manager. He has imbibed that competitive spirit in the team, in fact it was more evident in the game against cameroon when we were 4 goals up but we kept on chasing them down even till the last minute, I have always praised him for that(you said I hardly praise people right? Count that as number one). Everyone in the team is now hungry for success which is what Rohr brings to the team

Mujtahida:
Mickael2 would like this.

he believes in one touch football, the only game we played one touch football was against Zambia back then, that means the players are not playing to the coach's instruction, why? Because the coach has been unable to pass his philosophy across? Why? Because he is not tactically gifted.

I like the way he goes about his job, letting the players do what they know(I mean till today Moses and Simon still run around like headless chicken) but I won't call him what he is not, and he isn't tactical

[quote author=elyte89 post=61376373][/quote]Michael Babatuned is NOT better than Ajagun

blueto:
Enough of this please. Should we also attribute Moses's havoc against Cameroon to Iheanacho that was sitting on bench? Moses can cause havoc against any African side anytime anyday! with or without nacho. Should we also attribute Mikel's goal and Moses's second goal against Algeria to Nacho's “constant running?” Stop making reference to the words of a coach who waa just looking for an excuse for failure to defeat Nigeria.

the thing tire me. As if Moses didn't have his own marker that he evaded repeatedly, now we are praising Nacho for his inability to evade his marker even once for 90 complete minutes

forgiveness:
And Etebor played in this makeshift position against South Africa what did he do?

He failed woefully.

We need players in their natural positions and not makeshift.

are you sure you know the position Etebo played against SA? CMF is not the same as AMF

forgiveness:
Did Aiyenugba fumbled against Guinea?

big time. One of the goals he was beaten at his near post, two shots on target, two 'saveable' shots on target, two goals

Kog45:
Oh boy expect slacks,me i no dey.Uche,Martins,Osaze?

me I dey kamkpe ooo na just examples wey I give

Icon4s:
This one made me laugh out loud.

Back to the basic:
1. You don't change a winning formation.
2. You don't change a winning Team.


National team football is a lot lot different from Club football. In club football because of the quality of players at your disposal, you can chose to alter formation even severally in a single game. You can chose to go to the market to buy a particular due to a new formation the club has chosen to adopt. If a formation or tacticsfails the coach has several other matches to redeem himself

This is national team football.
Caution here in very key. You don go about experimenting squads at random except for friendly matches.

The key to national team selection is to optimize your available resources especially when you are limited compared to the major oppositionsyou are to face.

If the midfield combo of Ndidi-Onazi-Mikel has been giving you the right results why change it?

O I understand the need to play Iwobi at the AM position but right now Mikel is more effective in that position so we have to move Iwobi to the wings.

What happens to Simon? Yes Iwobi has reclaimed his wings position from him. Can we recall Simon was not a starter in Rohr's earlier matches?

Now going back to the issue of consistency. We saw what happened against SA with so many changes to the starting lines up, with some of the regulars missing for various reasons known to us.

Consistency is key in team building. One or two changes may be made depending on various circumstances.
Rohr knows his team already and there is no need for wild experiments. It is important that the team maintains shape and cohesion as this would be vital as they compete at the World Cup.

First I would like to ask you your definition of a middle 'giving you the right results', for me it means dominating a game against a Zambian team is a sure banker and that is not the result we have.


A coach does not come with a set formation, simply plugging in players to suit that his formation. No, a coach comes with an open mind, trying to generate a formation that will work with what he has. Now let us assume that Iwobi has a monstrous season at AMF, scoring and assisting like it's nobody's business. Maybe Iheanacho is converted back to an AMF and he also has a monstrous system there, but currently our system only requires one AMF but now we have three AMFs, to make it more interesting Joel Obi also has a great season at CMF and stays injury free. So if you are the coach will you still maintain your 4-2-3-1 formation knowing fully well that the players you have are mainly midfielders? Will you still maintain the same midfield trio of Ndidi-Onazi-Mikel because they huffed and puffed and secured a win against Zambia? Just some questions then I can conlude

elyte89:
....anoda section will start calling for ike uche inclusion to d team

i didnt know the national team is reserved exclusively for some. David Villa was recently recalled to the Spanish national team, are they lacking potent strikers? If Ike Uche or Martins or even Osaze has what we need then we should call them back

edi287:
Agu is aggressive and quite mobile. I don't think he's busquets type of slow. He was really nervous. Second half his tackling got better and he covered for our fullbacks well. This sub is no different from the Esiti sub Rohr made against Zambia in the first leg.

exactly, on that in that game against Zambia we were leading and had something to protect and Esiti came in and slowed the game down. Agu may be more mobile than Busquets but he isn't anywhere close to Ndidi so why the coach decided to play Agu in a position that would maximise Ndidi's potential whilst playing Ndidi in a position that would maximise Agu's potential sure beats me.

However I don't want to dwell on this debate for long. I heard Mikel won't play the game against Algeria, I will come back to this claim after that match

forgiveness:
Stop making statements devoid of concrete evidence.

At least, I have transfermarkt to back up my claims. What about you?

Or do you think I believe you one angel Gabriel who no dey lie?

Show me prove and I shut my mouth. Period.

Na so you dey claim Etebor who is LW should have come in for Onazi. Bhuuuhahaha!

Give me the name of the opponent then I can tell what he played.

The @bolded confirmed he once played as a creative maestro.

so Etebo played as a LW against Algeria? I never knew. That is the height of ridiculousness, me I am done with you on this topic

Kog45:
I share your view but we can still try Ndidi/Mikel combo in d middle and Iwobi as Am and Simeon retaining his position or Nacho upfront with Ighalo and Iwobi on d right side with Ndidi/Mikel doing it in d middle.

How do u see it.

do you expect Icon4s to change his views ever? If he was a coach he would play thesame formation and thesame team for a whole season even if he has better players on the bench. Hopefully the tactical team will understand that football is a dynamic game just like you have come to understand

TheGoodJoe:
You keep saying exaggeration and pointed out the Algerian game as an example. That is a fact. Not exaggeration. I can bet most of the exaggeration you are saying is me clearly on footballing terms explaining negative views of Iheanacho during games. That is not exaggeration.

I have no problem with people not liking my views. I have a different perspective from lots of people. Just as I was one of the few repping Mikel Obi during the SlObi era.

That does not call for bias views. Finito. Have a nice day.

from your views I have learnt one thing today which I think I should ask you to be sure.

So if in a game CR7 is marked out of the game by one or two defenders and he has a poor game but Benzema manages to run the opposing defence ragged(despite the fact that he too had a defender on him just like CR7), then it was actually CR7 that won the game because one defender marked him out? I think this makes sense now