₦airaland Forum

Donian007: Listen to yourself! So you have documents and records of the total number of soldiers Nigeria currently have and those deployed then you now assume our military has been overstretched and won't be able to defend the nation? And who is the enemy, South Africa? Keep dreaming in your SAn hut. I have been reading all posts here and just couldn't but smile through them, even somepeople are having headaches and heartaches that the Nigerian President wears military colours, they even want us to change our constitution to that effect and after my comrades and compatriots brush them off their pain they come up with yet another theme, circling around Nigeria's division which they believe is centred on some insurgent groups, but it is imcomprehensible in this whole debacle their apple interest in the Nigerian State of Affairs. Indeed, ignorant infested minds can never gain knowledge. Now about division. In the hot days of the militancy, our brothers at bakassi could not take it anymore and decided to bite the camerounian forces seeing that their own soldiers are held up with rules of engagement, they attacked the camerounians and killed them, but Biya never understood what transpired so he accused the Nigerian forces. Do you also know that OPC, a yoruba union have once pleaded with the federal government to permit them to engage boko haram? Even the delta militants that once threatened to wipeout Islamic structures in the south voluntarily withdrew? The war is Boko haram vs Nigeria, and the people whom the west and their propaganda painted to be having distrust for the military are thesame people standing up for the whole nation, pursueing and arresting their rebellious brothers and fathers because they believe in the unity of motherland. You can sit in your hut and conclude we are divided but never hurt us else you'll have yourself to blame because every Nigerian bears in mind that home is motherland and motherland is the only home.

I was hoping,to hear something about military not this insults. YES,I'm from South Africa and I don't stay in a hut. If you ever come to SA I can invite you over so you could collapse of envy village boy.

GidiNaijaPikin: Feel free to set a stage! We'll intelligently meet you anywhere.

Nigeria invade South Africa from Namibia or Botswana,I chose this cause Nigeria would never come from the Indian ocean and your ships can support you in the Atlantic ocean. You can choose the year or change this stage set.

Henry120: Funny how you are answering my question with a question. There is no argument then.

OK here's my list of your obsolete weapons. A. ARTILLERY 1.FH-77 155mm towed howitzer 2.OTO melera 56. 3. 130mm towed field gun M1954 4. B. TANKS 1.T-55 2.T-72 C. APCs 1.Panhard AML 2. FOX armoured recc vehicle. 3.BTR-6BB D. AIR FORCE 1. Chengdu J-7 2.MIL MI-35 hind 3MBB BO 105 E. NAVY 1. NNS thunder (F90)....Other: panhard M3

NaijaPikinGidi: Nice one SAEngine. But from where will you be firing from?

Ok,Let's set a stage(Nigerian boarders or South African boarders).

GidiNaijaPikin: Be diligent enough to go through this thread. Sadly your kith and kin KwameTut, ZetDee and CraigB have spammed the entire thread so much you'll be frustrated finding all the facts to counter your mindset assertions. LOL. Best of luck.

Funny NIGERIAN weapons are obsolete,and I don't see any plans on replacing them.

Henry120: You know what, list the obsolete nigerian weapons @MIKE..ZA.

You keep blabbing about nigerian weapons been obsolete, please do list them?

Just give me a list of modern Nigerian weapons.

GidiNaijaPikin: What is your point? Having a weapons industry or being able to use the weapons in war? Egypt is not South Africa's mate ... men and hardware-wise! Build Rooivalks as quickly and easily as you bake "vetkoek"? All of the upgrades you do are mostly under license from the Western manufacturers. Weapons wise and manpower-wise Nigeria's war records are there to be researched. With Nigeria, SANDF will suffer worse defeat than they did in CAR.

If South Africa and Nigeria were to go for a military show down. South Africa would win looking at this: 50% of Ghana exports come to SA,point being(we might have an ally) close by. Distance: the distance would mean the war won't be intense,so South Africa can arm to the teeth. Weapons coming to Nigeria by sea can be cut off,cause international arms companies wouldn't want their ships to share waters with evasive SAS(south African Ship) submarines. South Africa can sponsor militants in Nigeria,like the SADF did with UNITA and train them,in your neighbouring countries. While our arms companies and the army is bolstered,with numbers and equipment.

Henry120: We are talking/typing about the african continent and not the middle east.

How long would it take your plant to build more roovialks.

Apart from the shilkla, no nigerian weapon is obsolete.

Here's the thing I always go to any argument or debate knowing my views are not the facts,so do you mind showing or giving me a list of modern Nigerian weapons. It would depend,we all know plants can be bolstered if war was imminent.

Henry120: That's a blatant lie. No element in the army is sponsoring BH.

If you had said aiding, ofcourse sentiments would come into play. There are officers who have aided boko-haram, no doubt about that. However, all of those officers have been caught and court-martialled by the army. some of them are facing lengthy life sentences, while the others are still on trial.

That's the thing sir,if your officers can do this what support can they give to foreign spies with bags of money.

Henry120: Nigeria has a fast growing local defence industry. I have pasted multiple links and 5 times more images to buttress this point.

Any conflict between nigeria and a top 5 african country, that african country would loose.

You see all those equipments pasted in the recent photos(nadcel 2013), they were all up-graded and refurbished right here by the nigerian army's auto(**** can't recall the name)plant in bauchi state, nigeria.

Then their are private arms manufacturing companies, the biggest suppliers been, PROFORCE DEFENCE and MODANT

Nigeria doesn't have any modern homemade of the following "important war winning weapons" 1. Utility helicopters 2.Infantry fighting vehicles 3.MRAPS(Land mines can stop a Blitzkrieg) 4.Mine detecting and protected vehicles 5.Attack Helicopters 6. Radars 7.Long range artillery systems .8 Missiles from SAS(surface to surface),SAM(surface to air missile) to Air to ground missiles. That's only a few of them.

GidiNaijaPikin: You should look yourself in the mirror and say that to yourself 10 times! Comedy man! Did you just stumble on this thread?

Let's talk about Bombs,Fighter jets and artillery. NO PROFANTY!!!!,"my patronising mode" is off,so I won't insult anyone.

Henry120: Now, don't be silly. You cannot possibly believe south africa has the best military in africa. Not even in your wildest dreams. No 1 with 11 roovialk.

Here is an objective ranking.

1)Egypt
2)Algeria
3)Nigeria/ south africa
5)Ethiopia
6)Sudan
7)Morocco
Uganda
9)Kenya
10)Angola

Sir I don't rank based on numbers. Egypt with its huge army was defeated by Israel in many wars. South Africa if threatened can build many of those Helicopters(Rooivalks),Algeria had its attack helos upgraded in SA. Nigerian weapons are obsolete and should be replaced,and Nigeria depend of foreign countries for arms. No country in Africa besides SA has ever designed a cruise missile which can be useful in taking out air fields. So African countries have to send their fighter jets abroad to be upgraded while SA can do it at home.

GidiNaijaPikin: You can't turn back the hands of time! We went past this kind of argument long ago. You such a late bloomer. South Africa can jostle all they want. We all know the top of the list. Go back on this thread to see where you belong. Not on the top three! Sorry boy!

All I see is rubbish. Let me tell you this: Wars are not won by "huge armies" or numbers only,most countries(armies) on the African continent can't perform that German Blitzkrieg(lighting war) so wars drag slow,in regards with that it will go down to which country can produce weapons,when exports are endangered(blockade) by hostile specials forces. So a country like Nigeria,won't be able to manufacture pair parts for their equipment which is foreign acquired. If planes or ships carrying weapons are threatened. Regarding Egypt their armed forces are huge but incapable,Israel turns them to ladies all time.

GidiNaijaPikin: Are you a BH sponsor?

You're full of Jokes Sir.

Henry120: No nigerian general would take a bribe from any african country either. I was referring to the US.

But some reports are stating that elements within your armed forces are indeed sponsoring BH.

NaijaPikinGidi: You sabi tear mouth!

Sir challenge me,with something like "Nigerian armed forces are well armed,with some equipment being upgraded. And our state owned defence company has already done 50% on a new IFV" GET IT?

NaijaPikinGidi: Certainly a South African trait. Your SANDF must be smiling away with millions and visas from the US?

Read the info in the link below for a Brig. General O. Azinta.
http://beegeagle./2013/07/06/highlights-of-the-nigerian-army-day-celebrationnadcel-2013-summarised-by-beegeagle/

What's this? A bunch of obsolete weapons dumped in Nigeria?. The USA is not our friend nor a enemy. Let me give you a list of countries with capable armed forces in Africa 1.South Africa and Egypt 2. Algeria 3.Kenya 4.Nigeria and Morocco. 5.Botswana.

Henry120: Neither would your generals. So it goes both ways.

From which African country?,I don't think SANDF generals would take a bribe from some african country,the police special task force or hawks would take good care of him or her trying so.

solomon111: Apart from Quality equipment and funds which are relative and dependent on the nation we warring with,Nigeria is excellent in All the other points you listed.
Southafrica on the other hand,lacks in most if not all of those points you listed.

Which ones does SA lack?,But can any country win a war with obsolete weapons?. On the funds "point" it was reported that America bribed Iraqi Generals,so your Generals wouldn't say "NO" to a few millions plus a visa.

GidiNaijaPikin: You fail to get my point! You claim we are overstretched ... and my point is to make you to realise that we have not even scratched the surface of our full military capacity internally and externally. Enjoy your mistake!

By stretched I mean you won't have enough equipment to support your boys(soldiers). Please switch off your "denial mode".

GidiNaijaPikin: Apart from your wishful thinking ... you'd do your argument good by providing figures of our military deployments in relation to the current total size of our military. We are not a mere 40,000 - 50,000 like your military.

Again!!!! numbers can't guarantee a military victory,Example Is the DRC army which has around 150 000 personnel,but can't defeat a mere 5000-6000(estimates) M23 rebels or Israel which defeated the Arab forces in many wars with less men&less tanks. It takes 1.QUALITY equipment 2. Disciplined man. 3.Motivated man 4.funds 5.Good training ...............your army lacks a few of those.

GidiNaijaPikin: I'm sure you can't place your brain on what a military uniform has to do with the military on this military focused thread!

Again I challenge you on a debate about,the capabilities of your armed forces. Tell me something like "Our army is overrated",or should we act like armies in 1880s southern africa before The Great warrior king Shaka,standing on valleys apart to insult each other.

souldust: the situation isnt what you think. The reason you think these people are big problem for nigeria is that; Nigeria is treating them with kid gloves.

Remember, the issues that led to them croping up do not really require a military solution. If, however, the FG sees that arming some groups is what you are trying to do, you give the FG the best excuse to use its might to dismantle any militancy.

But dont go believing that Nigeria is divided. The truth is, we are not! Politicians from the north, south, east or west; christian or muslim or ATR do sit together to drink palmwine and laugh at the stupidity of anyone who thinks the country would disintegrate. We know this very well becos we see them. How else can you explain that a country that was predicted to disintegrate even before independence has survived for over 50years of political independence and 99years as a single entity?

Let's agree on one thing which is there are militant groups in Nigeria,with this fact acknowledged. We all know it would be difficult for Nigeria to fight on two fronts,looking at how massively your army has been deployed to deal with a single group. So if a country was to attack Nigeria now,I don't think your army can stretch any further.

[quote author=chris365]yeah right.. can you please tell me one war the US has fought alone after the Vietnam war? you watch too many Hollywood. movies my friend.

Nigeria is surrounded by weak countries from west to central Africa, therefore has not been challenged.
but you can't deny our military has been tested in many peace keeping operations after the civil war and have been well recognized to be up to the task. say what you will, Nigerian military is a force to reckon with [/quote Do you remember when B 2 spirit bombers,made a ran from the USA to Libya to hit targets?,And i'm talking about a military show down between Nigeria against a well organised foe not some rebels in peace keeping operations.

chris365: rocket pod made by NAF

For attack helicopter?

souldust: why do you think Nigeria is too divided?

This militant groups man. If Nigeria was in a military show down against any country,that country can sponsor this militants with money and weapons easily to eat Nigeria from the inside. That would be opening a second front,stretching your armed forces. GET IT?

NaijaPikinGidi: Careless commentary! You sit in your tiny corner of the world to suggest that Nigeria is divided? Try Nigeria and regret ever thinking without your brains. You all have got a lot to learn about the world outside your South African enclave.

Let's talk about "military stuff",can we? And please stop showing your stupidity,by this profanity.

Donian007: Sorry that Panhard ERC90 has a 90mm gun and yours is 76mm so?

Did you know Iraqi T-72 tanks were armed with a 125mm gun,and the American Abrams with 120mm gun?,but the T-72 were out ranged. What I'm saying is the diameter of the gun can be BIG with less range and ineffective against armour. Example about "range&diameter" is South Africa Denel's G7 105mm gun howitzer(light ordinance),which can put a shell 36km away out ranging all 105mm howitzer and most 155mm guns. Regarding the Rooikat's gun it was designed from a naval gun,it is not just "normal 76mm gun",but some vehicles(Rooikats) were upgraded and armed with Denel's GT7 105mm gun.

Donian007: At this juncture I'll demand that you Andrewza should shut-up. Why are you getting yourself worked-up because Nigerian Constitution gave GEJ the right to wear military uniforms with the rank of field marshal on ceremonial duties? Nigeria and South Africa are not thesame, we have a policy that works for our nation and military, our military are highly respected and so they give us same. We don't trade their lives for selfish things. Our military have trained other militaries e.g(liberia, ghana, etc) and have never deployed companies or battalions that would go acting Rambo where they are strangers. Get it into your brain, Nigeria is Nigeria not South Africa.

This is FUNNY,we know what happens to people who wanna be everything LOL they end looking stupid....Example this guy read his full title carefully "His excellency,president for life,field marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin,VC,DSO,MC,lord of all beasts of the earth and fishes of the seas and conquer of the British empire in Africa in General and Uganda in particular" or is he aspiring to be him?

Donian007: At this juncture I'll demand that you Andrewza should shut-up. Why are you getting yourself worked-up because Nigerian Constitution gave GEJ the right to wear military uniforms with the rank of field marshal on ceremonial duties? Nigeria and South Africa are not thesame, we have a policy that works for our nation and military, our military are highly respected and so they give us same. We don't trade their lives for selfish things. Our military have trained other militaries e.g(liberia, ghana, etc) and have never deployed companies or battalions that would go acting Rambo where they are strangers. Get it into your brain, Nigeria is Nigeria not South Africa.

This is FUNNY,we all know what happens to people who wanna be everything LOL they end looking stupid....Example this guy read his full title carefully "His excellency,president for life,field marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin,VC,DSO,MC,lord of all beasts of the earth and fishes of the seas and conquer of the British empire in Africa in General and Uganda in particular" or is your president aspiring to be him?,please stop making your president look stupid,he should just stick to being a president.

chris365: No country can. Even US needed help to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq cos the financial cost would have devastated their economy, France asked for logistical support and begged african troops to join the fight in mali. not that they couldn't do it alone but the cost was a factor. Truth is that the Liberian and SL war was easily and heavily funded by Nigeria cos the regimes then didn't have the vision to invest in infrastructure, hence they had enough money to waste.

now things are different, a lot of money is being spent on developing infrastructures. our government have to think deeply before involving in any war.

The USA can. What I meant by the "Nigerian army never been tasted,in combat against a well equipped,and organised foe"is that Nigeria has never fought a war against any enemy standing alone without mercenaries(like during the Nigerian civil war or Biafran war) or foreign countries backing her(Nigeria). I think Nigeria is too divided to fight any war against any strong,hostile,well equipped country. Unlike during the Nigerian civil war Biafrans were highly motivated and highly motivated soldiers can put up a serious fight with less weapons we saw this with Nazi Germany.

Henry120: You've raised a good point. I believe that's the reason why ethiopia is building up her MBT and SU-30 base. I did not add, in the agreement the ethiopians signed, the ukrainians would be responsible for servicing, maintaining, and providing rounds for the T-72's through out their life-span.

Logistics would be the largest challenge the egyptians would face. Getting all that equipment to ethiopia. To be honest, at this point in time, cash strapped egypt cannot afford or even win a war against ethiopia.

To be honest Egypt can defeat Ethiopia just not now with the prospect of civil war in Egypt. Are those T-72s digital or they're still analog using the "screw method" to turn the turret like the Iraqi models(the lion of babylon) during the Gulf war?. One thing we must know is that Egypt's army,was built to deal with Israel(highly mobile forces or fast moving tank formations). Regarding air power Ethiopia has around 70 fighter jets,while Egypt can field up to 200 or even more F-16 alone without their Russian made jets.

Henry120: For the mission in mali, the army, the entire nigerian military had been propping up to deploy. The second fiddle role west african nations led by nigeria are playing to france, and all blame apportioned to it should be laid at the feet of west african politicians.

On the nigerian side, I cannot blame the military for been poorly equipped for the mission, as seen from equipments deployed including photos pasted on this thread, the nigerian military was/is appropriately equipped to carry out their mission in mali, with the requisite air-power in place.

Neither, was it a question of training, as the nigerian army had already trained 15,000 men in counter terrorism/ CQC and FIBUA.

As seen with the deployment of 400 commandos to ivory coast, the question of ease/quick deployment would not have been an issue.

In all, the only reason for the 'foot dragging' on the nigerian side, was the question of, the cost of the mission and who was/is going to bear the cost of funding the mission.

In liberia and serria leone, nigeria bore the cost of funding the missions, under economic sanctions and huge external debts. Infact in liberia, only nigerian and guinean troops were actually fighting. Ghanaian troops left their duty posts and fled multiple times.

The nigerian government also provides the guinean military with 10 million dollars annually. Added to our AU responsibilities.

For a mission( in mali) at the time which was projected to cost 400 million dollars, it would not have been fair to again ask nigeria to fund it. We have our own problems, this is not the 70- early 2000's when fat cat nigeria, was recklessly dowling out gifts like an over-bloated santa-claus.

So cost was a major drawback for the mission in mali.

The nigerian civil war. Nigeria vs biafra. That is a conflict against a well armed/ determined foe.

It is not about equipment only,"wars are expensive".I really don't think Nigeria could handle the peace keeping mission alone without AU or UN funding.