₦airaland Forum

A confluence of Ancient Amazigh, Arab and sub saharan Africans will undoubtedly breed Tribalism and racism in Libya. Mostly a bunch of illiterate people who engage in this stupidity.

Ancient Africans and Ancient Amazigh have crossed each others paths all through history with no significant issues arising in terms of racist attitudes.

The introduction of Arab conquests and European racial classifications based on skin tone is the major cause of this unfortunate epidemic.

It will take time to reverse and breed out this poison from the minds of Libyans.

cdoffx:
keep it up bro. But mind you no be say i no go dey tackle you sometimes, you know we can't always share the same view.

You are welcome to "tackle" any information or view point I have. It is inevitably a part of the learning process.

MandingoII:
Morpheus did you write this:



https://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj7efwMKoM1qa5z1ro1_500.jpg


Nawl, you couldn't have wrote this.

You love Whitey too much to have the courage.

The venacular sure to do sound like something you would write Dingo. Are you trying to tell us something?

cdoffx:
Morpheus i must confess that i'm really thrilled by the logic you use in analysing your points. Pls i want to know did you study logic

Philosophy is a subject matter that I continue to invesitgate with a lot of interest. It informs other subject matters be it politics, economics, sociology, logical thinking and the likes. It is also the discipline that sparked the age of enlightenment.

AjanleKoko:
True that, but rationality is relative, and everybody can read from his page of the rule book. In Osama's case, he can easily claim the same, in the real sense of it, the opposition is controlling and manipulating the rules, outlawing him and labeling him a 'terrorist'. Not that he is justified to visit terror on civillians. He could even say he is mandated by his beliefs

This is true but note that "reason" informs rationality. Rational requires the process involved in agreeing with reason( the good or bad of a subject or event).

Osama rationalizing the reason for his actions is not applying "reason" i.e. understanding but rational his "preference" for the reason. He shares the same concepts of good and evil  by every being able to rationalize anything. e.g the reason it is wrong to kill an unarmed person. However the application process is what he is manipulating. If he does this then he is just as guilty as the ones he points fingers at and cannot be of any higher moral ground than his opponent.

This is where he differs with Mandelan and skewing the concepts of his belief.

AjanleKoko:
But it does happen. US Army Rangers in Afghanistan. The Israelis levelling Beirut in 2006.

Besides, It'd be hard to sell the Geneva convention to men like Osama, given that he had no input into the document

That's assuming his particular implicit reasoning process based on his upbringing, religion, way of life e.t.c is necessary to draw up a convention that govern rules of engagement. It is not.

As rational human beings which is a pure concept shared by each one of us regardless of culture or way of life, it is  not required that every single human being with every single culture be present when setting up reasonable rules that require armies or rebels "not assault civilian groups of people."

The question of hyprocrisy by one group does not justify the act by another which is why mandela did not say using warfare against civilians was justified but rather as a "consequence" of the opposition manipulating the rules.

RSA:
Mr Mo,are you one of the people who belief that apaartheid South Africa was a first world country?

In the past you RSA have mentioned the fact that SA is a first world country surrounded by third world mini countries. you've already answered that question

AjanleKoko:
There's no such thing as terrorism.
All's fair in war, it seems. So, like Osama and all the other guys, Mandela is not a terrorist. He was a freedom fighter. Terror is a war tactic, so those people regarded as terrorists are pursuing a campaign against their enemies.

When you specifically target non military civilians out of frustration you have broken rules of engagement. thats outside the realm of th concept of fairness in warfare.

cdoffx:
so from your point of view what would you call him?

A man fighting for an IDEAL!!!

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=628461.msg8074646#msg8074646 date=1302196687]Each of those other ethnic groups have political representation - PAC - that act as the sentry into the communities, they monitor and control social, economic, cultural, academic and informational access into and out-of their respective communities. So that when something derogatory happens in a majority Asian community the news feed is first reviewed and approved for dissemination. Their arts and history is positioned positively by Hollywood. Mob movies like Godfather and Scarface . . . and now Gotti. . . ., where brute force and bloodshed is the mark of honor are promoted as a cultural pride. However, Bloods and Crips, the black equivalent, is derogated.

The militancy you see in Farrakhan is justified. If he was laidback and timid as most of these so called Black Church leaders are then Nation of Islam will end up same way SNC, Black Panther and SLCC have ended up. If you notice, NoI is treated differently than the rest of Black community social groups. . . .they are reputed to have discipline, organization and creed as well as a very tight and orderly hierarchy and so the Govt has learnt not to jerk them around like they do the mega Churches and all.

You can regard Nation of Islam as a model of a desired Black PAC, if there were to be one. . . and Farrakhan as the archetype of a Black voice. He may not be desirable but at least he represents what we need and should have for us.[/quote]A far better analysis that can be understood and argued intellectually, unlike some others. I don't have time right now to respond but might later in the day

Kudo's!!

cdoffx:
As far as i'm concern Mandella is no terrorist only a freedom fighter who fight to seek justice and freedom for the blacks,i believe if the whole of African nations had been directly under aparthied as it was in South Africa we would all have understood better. Those that came into another man's land to violently take him as slave and work him under harsh labor. Are they not the terrorist? Those who came into a man's land to deprive him of his fundamental human right on his own land and if he dares talk he'll be tortured or killed. Are they not terrorist? Long long list of atrocities. I believe the two words terrorist&freedom fighter are only use by those with the power depending on which side they take. Now suppose in the cause of police engage in gun fight with robbers innocent citizens were hit by stray bullet is that terrorism on the police side?

In his auto biography, Mandela clearly states the reason for the formation of "Umkhonto we sizwe" translated as the spear of the nation. The armed wing of the ANC party. He stated that it was as a last resort and targeted mostly non civilian areas.

After his imprisonment  Umkhonto stepped up their assaults and targeted civilian  areas much like the IRA did in Ireland. Efforts were made to try to get Mandela to disown this wing of the ANC party as part of a deal to release him or at most move him to a half way prison house. He refused.

The reason he was so listed on US files as a terrorist was infact in relation to Diplomatic ties the US government had with the Apartheid govt in South Africa. The status was never changed even after the US switched gears against the Apartheid government.

Check my last post on my profile

cdoffx:
Cap28 & Morpheus24 putting it in Morpheus words you both understand the American policy of imperialism,destabilising & exploitation & both see it as harmful &unforgivable since non of you condone it but the only difference i see is that while Morpheus sees no reason why this should be an issues Cap is on the contrary.Clear. Now Morpheus28 lets look at this scenario. You've a brother who is being talked into a contract that will be detrimental to him. Won't you enlighten him on the detriments? Perhaps yes? But its left for your brother to see your point or not. Now your brother has a son(your nephew) who will mostly be affected by the contract. Won't you do all your best possible to enlighten your nephew so as to avert this contract? I leave that for you to answer. That is exactly what Cap28 is doing. Your brother in this scenario is the shortsighted African leaders that don't think of coming generations but their immediate benefits, all they need to enter any agreement is see if it has any benefit for them not minding the effect on their land, your nephew is the innocent African people who're directly and grossly affected by the foolishness of their leaders. So is Cap wrong for trying to enlighten his brothers over an impending danger? I'm not saying its okay for any leader to kill &infringe on the right of his people but why must we give chance to some people to take advantage of our problems to add more problems to our lives,why must some people take advantage of us? That is just what i'm against,Cap28 is against and many more.
Cap28 do you remember my comment on your post;Real Reason for Libya Invasion, that is just the way out. God bless Africa.

cdoffx

My objective is simple. Give you the tools you need to think for yourself. White people (europeans) didn't always rule the world and were at many points in their history slaves as well. In fact the word "slave" originates from "slav" of eastern european origins. These people are as human as you are. They fear the same things you do and are no less different in any capacity or ability as you are. There are "systems" that are created to control, oppress and subjugate people. This is neither unique to white people nor has it never been practiced by black people or any other people for that matter.

If people believe or profess to inform people on the grounds that they are equiping their minds with the "true" nature and knowledge of their percieved enemy outside of what we is refered to as conventional education then this must be tested for its intended viability. The informaton must be unbiased to "truly" meet its intended purpose. In other words it must be weighed in terms of its objectivity or subjectivity. This is necessary to authenticate the position of the informant and eliminat the incidence of a BIAS that either intentionally or unintentionally skews the context of the information to a particular position.

Illustration of two formats information can be interpreted in terms of context:

FORMAT 1
BREAKING NEWS! Some "WHITE SCIENTIST IN SOUTH AFRICA DISCOVERED TO BE EXPERIMENTING ON BLACK PEOPLE". Details indicate that these white scientist were using an un approved HIV retroviral drug to ascertain the potency and dangerous side effects the drugs were said to contain. These unscrupulous and racist people used innocent black victims to perpetrate these despicable acts. The victims suffered unimaginable side effects including convulsions, blindness, parkinson- like shaking, uncontrolled bowel movements causing them to defecate on themselves and intense disorganized and delusionary speech. [/i]

FORMAT 2

In the small town of Kayalesitha, South Africa, a group of resident scientists were discovered out to be conducting un approved experiments using several HIV test drugs on residents of the local community. These residents were locked up in a basement apartment and were only discovered by a visiting practioner from the United states who was consulting for a pharmacetical company interested in new drug formulaes for their patent. Local residents were shocked and appalled at the discovery and it was further discovered that these scientist were the members of the AWB, a notorious racist and notorious group tied to nazi propaganda. [i]

The above two forms can be labeled as "information sharing" with differing variables within the contexts. I leave you to decipher the thought processes required to analyze and infer on the information you just recieved.


True empowerment is the ability to inform the reciever with the critical cognitive skills to decipher the information for himself. Going back to the illustratio of my brother being talked int a contract that will be dtrimental to him. If I ran up to him screaming about how the maker of the contract's intentions were sinister in motive and I had explained to him graphicaly of how this contract had destroyed the lives of many of my other friends. I am not truly empowering him. If I explain the context of the contract giving him the ability to decipher the contents of the information own his own. He would truly be able to apply the same reasoning if he were to encounter any other future contracts that are similar to the one he has an.

The intricacies of the contract are much more important than the damage it caused my other friends in my humblest of opiniones. Appealing to his emotions does not require the use of his intellectual capacities. It clouds them.

Education is not a product of "white people" Its an application of common sense to your external enviroment and experiences

MandingoII:
^^^^^

Your busted musty backside see my light on

I'm just watching Cap BUst A CAP in yo a/s/s

There goes your army Cap28. A Dingo who can't tell the difference between a "security" and a"junk mortgage"


ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS AND THEY WILL BE ANSWERED

otherwise, go scratch off some flees will ya

Morpheus says: Dingo sooner or later you're going to realize just as I did that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

cap28:
so mr economist/political scientist if you were on tv or in front of a class of students and you were asked to explain how goldman sachs defrauded millions of homeowners by knowingly selling them junk mortgages you would respond by saying nope - ask me a question on a topic that i have just finished cramming into my head that way i can pretend as if i know what the hell im talking about.

What the hell are junk mortgages in reference to homeowners. Are you speaking of the investors that bought the mortgage backed securities?

If I were in a classroom setting the first step would be to assign a specific reading assignement to the likes of you on a specific subject matter related to the issue. Example "deregulation". Why? Cause it would require they first understand the impetus in economic terms that fueled the rise of the issue we are about to analyze.

step 2. We would then move on to the[b] mechanics [/b] of the mortgage sales perpetrated by banking and loan institutions and the issues involving i.e ARM, Jumbo loans, fair lending act, sub prime in of itself and lower income households in reference to the ability to pay. Then go on to find out how these loans were bundled up and sold off with reference to "hedging" which was part of the whole equation of the melt down.

Step 3. Then via the mechanism it would be revealed how these companies i.e Goldmach sachs were able to manipulate the system drawing from past references of similar issues to give a broad perspective of how and why these issues occur.

Step 4. Would be to allow the students understand the effects to the stakeholders involved and how better to protect themselves or at least pass on the information so they are better protected agains unscrupulous activities in the future

A whole lot better than stairing up their sentimentalites and regrugitating back room dealings about white slave masters and uncle toms, don't you think?

Oh yeah almost forgot if I were on T.V. i would use the same format only in contexts where I assumed the audience had an idea of what I was talking about?

You can't be explaining this kinda stuff on sesame street shows you know.

ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS AND YOU WILL GET AN ANSWER!

cap28:
you have been outed on NL as a fraud and an imposter - now be gone - economist ko rent boy ni.

You wish cap28. you so wish.

Where is your army of supporters to come back you up. Hmmmm. I don't hear anyone

Anyone outta there?

cap28:
is that your answer or are you just guessing? when you say the govt is practically  in the hands of the locals - what do you mean?  can you tell me how much of the south african economy that is under black control and how much is under white control?

The political structure of the country is governed by the ANC i.e the party of majority of the population of the country.

In terms of economics the institutions that engage in economic activity are white majority owned with the a changing demographic between 1994-2007. thyears Thabo Mbeki was in power saw the largest growth of a black middle class with black controlled enterprises and a GDP per capita growth in the hands of of the majority population with assistance from BEE programs introduced. During this era blacks experienced a large migration from the township areas into the cities flaunting their wealth. The problem overlooked by the Mbeki government was the overwhelming under educated and underskilled workers coupled with the growing issue of immigration from neighbouring countries.

cap28:
by this do you mean blacks should have settled for white apartheid minority rule where they would have  remained slaves in their own land?

Answer: Irrelevant to the point being made.

cap28:
by the way what the hell are you doing in such a place, oh let me guess, your own country is a complete cesspit.

I dont live in South Africa. Assumptions equates to stupidity . Ask the right questions?

cap28:
no the point IS that you prove to me that you have an indepth understanding of the socio economic situation in south africa - aside from a few anodyne statements about blacks in south africa being incompetent you are yet to prove to me with detailed empirical evidence that you understand anything about south africa, its people or its economy.

Ask the right questions. They will be answered. the objective is not to prove anything to you.

cap28:
Looks like you're losing it mate, the other day you were criticising the NOI and farrakhan for being pseudo religious black supremacist fanatics - today you're actually quoting the organisation's founder  - what next? conversion- is it me or are you one extremely confused individual.

Wrong. The quote is used to demonstrate hyprocrisy

cap28:
how much more specific do you want me to be? - i am asking you for the umpteenth time to analyse in plain english how goldman sachs succeeded in defrauding millions of american homeowners by selling them subprime mortgages with vastly inflated interest rates - look forward to hearing from you , thanks

Nope. Not playing your game.

Ask a specific question on a specific issue concerning sub prime loans in reference to Securities companies i.e Goldmach sachs. Mechanics, causes and effects, bank regulations,

Thats an analysis.

cap28:
^^^^^^

HELLO HELLO MORPHEUS DO YOU READ ME?? ARE YOU STILL BREATHING?? I AM STILL AWAITING YOUR ANALYSIS OF THE GOLDMAN SACHS SUB PRIME MORTGAGE DEBACLE, OVER AND OUT.

next time use the phrase "operator". This aint walkie talkie stuff.

cap28:
WHY ARE YOU POSTING OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS - I THOUGHT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE AN AUTHORITY ON ECONOMICS /POLITICAL SCIENCE - please for a change can i have your own well thought out analysis on goldman sachs involvement in the sub prime mortgage scam in america - thank you

ha ha. i figured you were going to say that.

Ask the right question. Thats too general? Be more specific

Do you want to discuss the mechanics of the process?

How fair lending legislation contributed to the manipulation by banking and investment institutions?

or maybe the fact of how deregulation via the Gramm-leach Bliley act was the impetus that empowered Investment firms to bundle mortgages in CDO( collateral debt obligations to be sold in investment vehicles

Or maybe the ability for these same investment companies i.e. Goldmach sachs to slip through regulations that required liquidity ratios in terms of capitilization required to meet short term obligations.

Come on be more specific. I am debating with an expert here.

cap28:
okay prof, what was the story on goldman sachs and the sub prime mortgage scandal in america?

Read the last post with attched video. Pretty self explanatory. I am not going to regrugitate stuff for you to display my 'supposed understanding" . you need to exercise your brain and rephrase the question.

cap28:
You are what ? listen mate ive got better things to do than run thru your posts okay, now tell me something mr economist/political scientist why areblack south africans still without adequate housing, employment and access to education 17 years after apartheid ended?

Hmmm? let me guess. The white's still control the economics of the country. This is besides the fact that there are only rougly 5 million of them that live there and the government is practically in the hands of the locals. Mabybe it could be due to mismanagment of govt funds, poor service delivery culture or a lack of the ability to run a government institution properly withoug nepostistic tendencies.


Just because you were on the streets screaming "imshinuwa" or on exile in some foreign country sending communiques to the underground resistance, doesn't qualify you to run any government

cap28:
being a jack of all trades does not equate to being knowledgeable on a given topic, it just means you have your fingers in too many pots, expertise and indepth knowledge and understanding is the true determinanant - do you have it, if so explain in detail the reasons why the south african govt has failed to address the ongoing problems with poverty amongst blacks in south africa.

See above!

cap28:
being on ground means nothing, you could be a drug dealer, male pro.stitute or a bouncer in a night club in south africa for all i know - im not there with you am i?, no my dear friend being "on ground" is not enough you have to actually have some understanding of the political and economic matters pertaining to the country , something you are yet to prove to me.

The objective is not to prove so you vett and qualify me for anyting. The objective is to present the information without bias and leave the people to discern what makes sense and what doesn't.

Remember the analogy of Elijah muhammed's' " dirty glass vs clean glass of water" metaphor.

And I thought you were an expert on the NOI

cap28:
hahaha - the supposed font of knowledge posts a link of a goldman sachs asset manager  doling out economic advice to south africa - why would any nation in their right mind take economic advice from a bank that made billions of dollars from scamming millions of american homeowners into buying sub prime worthless mortgages with vastly inflated interest rates.

As regards liar loans you are trying to make us all so flabagasted about . Here's an excerpt for more incite. The warnings were expressed long before you came on nairaland.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/profile.html

From the great depression in the 30's to the S&L debacle in the 80's to accounting scandals in the early 2000's to the Bank bail outs in the late 200's. its all a cyclical process that repeats itself over and over and again with shorter and shorter time gaps in between.

Yelling and screaming about conspiracy theories and pointing fingers is again engaging in sentimentalities. Defining and analyzing the real issues offers real empowerment.


Morpheus says " I can show you the door way but it is you that has to open it"

cap28:
Never said i was an expert on south african economics or politics, infact i didnt know i had to be in order to highlight the fact that goldman sachs caused millions of american homeowners to loose their homes because of their fraudulent selling of sub prime mortgages.

You do, otherwise stop talking about stuff you don't fully research.

cap28:
Are  you an economist or political scientist? do you know something about the inner workings of the south african economy that we dont know, are you privy to any south african technocrats and members of the south african govt?

Actually I am and I do. MR RSA can attest to that if you doubt it or you may run a random search through my posts.

Told yah I was a jack of all trades,

cap28:
or does posting a CNN clip with a goldman sachs shill mouthing off, qualify you as an authority on south africa's economy?

To answer that. No it doesn't actually. Being on ground actually does. Satisfied.

cap28:

oh boy are you trying to tell us something "eating spotted D.I.C.K" na wah !!!

Don't deviate from the premise. SPOTTED D.I.CK or queen's sausage rolls. All na the same thing.

cap28:
hahaha - the supposed font of knowledge posts a link of a goldman sachs asset manager  doling out economic advice to south africa - why would any nation in their right mind take economic advice from a bank that made billions of dollars from scamming millions of american homeowners into buying sub prime worthless mortgages with vastly inflated interest rates.

Ah a sparring program. Very well then!

Since you have become an expert on South African politics and economic affairs other than shouting at bank executives and multinational companies

What solutions are necessary for South Africa to distribute its resources equitably among its people?

What problems are aggravating these solutions?

On what economic platform should it engage the world or should it not engage the world at all?

Please none of that chase the white man out thingy!

That's elementary.

cap28:
I will show you just how much you failed to grasp the meaning of that clip you posted.

In the clip Fela himself actually confirms that it was only when he went to england that he began to realise that he was an african because of the racism he faced as a student, he goes on to say that it was at that point he began the journey to rediscover his africanness - this should therefore indicate to you that location is irrelevant in determining a person's search for identity, you are in africa but for all intents and purposes you might as well be in switzerland, you do not even think you are an african- in a desperate bid to be accepted by the very people who enslaved your ancestors you genuflect at the alter of eurocentricity, i pity you.

let me show you how much silly assumptions are?

1. I am not in Nigeria (at the moment!)

2. I am guessing your search and rediscovery is still going on since you haven't rid yourself of the "eurocentric' comforts. I recall some one saying in a past response that "they deserved to be where they were". Hmmm I am wondering on what grounds. What show of "africaness is this?

Still  playing the town crier role are yah? let me guess this is the 21st century, requires a new methodology huh?

At least Fela rid himself both "physically" and "mentally" of his colonial master's grip. He came back home to come and chop eba and egusi soup with his compadres.

Some are still eating "Donner kebabs" and spotted D.I.C.K in their flats I am guessing?

Laughable when trying to make sense out of nonsense.


Morpheus says: Come on stop trying to hit me and hit me!

cap28:
^^^^^^^^



i like asswhupping this fool it keeps my blood pumping

keeping it coming! Keep it coming!

MORPHEUS SAYS: You truly don't know someone until you fight them

cap28:
Sorry mate you obviously didnt understand what fela was talking about in that clip you pasted, kolomentality refers to a state of mind and not where you are located - this is why he talks about the adverse effect that eurocentric education has and still has on africans, you are a prime example of kolomentality because despite being in nigeria you still show no sense of allegiance for your own people, you jump to the defence of the white colonialists and neo colonialists that were and remain responsible for keeping africa in a permanent state of regression and you show no sympathy for the suffering and misery of your own people.  Fela was referring to people like you who acquire a eurocentric education (which was designed to enslave you mentally) and then turn around and start looking down on your own people, perhaps you might want to start by freeing your own mind before doling out unwanted advice.

Oh boy! regurgitation time again. Sorry to dissappoint you but UNDERSTOOD quite clearly what he was talking about. You simply can't grasp the inference and unfortunately can't see past your own limitations. Thats why you are too easy . Challenge your mind a little more will ya. Filling your head with conspiracy theories allows for a one track mind.

The "us" against "them"

MORPHEUS SAYS: Don't try to bend the spoon--that's impossible. Instead, try to realize the truth."
                             "What truth?" Cap28 asks.
                             "There is no spoon. Then you will see it is not the SPOON that bends, it is only yourself."

RSA:
That explain the Happiest people on the planet theory

Hey RSA. See the link. even before the interview been telling you this but you guys just can't analyze trends. You are stuck on sentiments.

Some brilliance you guys display!

Intelligence always trumps sentimentality!

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2011/04/04/mpa.jim.oneil.s.africa.ready.cnn

MandingoII:
Who the Fugg are you to be trying to call shots here?

you aint gon bust a grape.

Better yet,  RSA - kick his a/s/s for us.

[size=5pt]changes thread title[/size]

I beg your pardon sir. I don't bust grapes. Speak some proper English instead of that ebonics crap will ya. I bust ego's.

See you changed the title too.

Try again!