₦airaland Forum

Beaf:
While we might "aspire to solutions", others are already acting.

Right now the country is held to ransom by a band of thieves. In recent times, there has been an acceleration in our downward spiral of chaos, squalor, poverty, insecurity, unity and ethnic rivalry. The SSS Director General has predicted an implosion of Nigeria before 2011. There needs to be a controlled exit from chaos in order to avoid a violent split. Maybe the time for "aspiration to solutions" is past? Maybe the time has come for each region in the South to press forward with demands on how we should co-exist.

maybe my credentials as a UN attachee and my work with  NGO's all across Africa  might persuade you of my "aspirations" vs your actions.

Go ahead and advocate your peaceful exit on ethnic lines. I promise you one thing, I will chop off my right hand if your Arewa republics or MENDS even resemble the appearance of the worst African states.

I like the way the word 'concessions" is used to mask the true intended goal which is control of resources and inevitably "Greed". As if the masses will see any of the proceeds from these so called "concessions". Who is going to make sure they get them. You!, Arewa republic, MEND. Please!

Cure the symptom and you will eliminate the problem.

Beaf:
I have not put forward any ideals, just a summarised viewpoint.
Belief. What is your belief? Is it based on fact or is it better called faith? What is there to it that seperates it from sentiment?

Lets not play around with semantics here on the definitions of ideals and viewpoints.

The idea or "ideal" that these groups can bring about some sort of equilibrium in terms of fair resource allocation is your viewpoint, no?


My belief is based on my ideals which is simply  my willingness to aspire to solutions to issues that  can be attained even when people will regard them as  impossible and certainly out of the equation.

Sentiments are emotions that remain as such without action and are only experienced uniquely at that point in time by one individual. Belief is taking it a step further.

Did I answer your question?

Igbanibo:
We dont have any type of checks and balances in Nigeria, only sycophants. Perhaps, her interest in talking to opposition groups might be for them to check mate the government.

Or cause more civil unrest and dissent.

nex:
This woman wants to come and gather various power blocks together and instigate them to struggle for power and control. If the Sultan of Sokoto had obliged her, you all would have heard the kind of praises she would have showered on him with little notes to remind him that prior to the Brutish invasion, the Fulani Sultanate was the power house of Nigeria.

I can understand the sheer ignorance of the Nigerian masses who do not know that what the USA is out to do is spread disdain among smaller African countries for Nigeria and forment discord among all african Nations so that they can continue to use us for the next millenium.

How do you think they brought Ethiopia from such a great height to a struggling landlocked nation severed from Eritrea, which itself is now not doing any better?

Is Clinton a royal mother that she wants to be meeting with our royal fathers? If queen elizabeth wants to meet with the Sultan or Oba, I have on problem with that.


It is time the USA like China, Japan, India and even Lebanon present whatever business they have to offer for us to know if It's acceptable rather than believing they understand old school Machiavellian politics more than the inventor himself. This is 2009 and everybody should compete in the new world economy with regards to what resources they have to bargain with not by touting sentiments and holier than thou sermons all over the African continent. She wants to tell us about equality of women meanwhile, her position as secretary of state rather than president today goes to show that the traditional USA citizen is still very bias against women leadership.


Clinton should go and find a very good hair salon in Abuja where they can give her a befitting hairdo in order to get rid of that archaic wig she's been wearing for decades now.


A foreigner wants to come and address the Council of Traditional Rulers.
TUFIAKWA!!!

Heheheheheh!!

Becomrich:
There would never be Biafra. The igbos can not live in 29,000 sq km , they are traders, who are they going to sell thing to. 90% of igbos would loss their source of living.

This is the reason why they can never be Biafra.

Look what the USA and other do not understand is that there are two major powers in west Africa. Fulani/hausa and the Yorubas.

While the Fulani/hausa dominate the north in several countries. the yorubas dominate the south in several countries.


The Yorubas and Fulani/hausa together are spread in about 18 countries in Africa. This is why we have to redraw the map of Nigeria to avoid a civil war. The igbos have no military strength in the Nigeria army to oppose even the decision. They would be crush. I can even tell you this. Knowing Nigeria politics if the igbos stage a coup against it. In less than 6 hours they would be remove from power. And most likely the coup would fail.


Seen the satellite picture, we have to redraw the map of Nigeria to avoid a civil war. This is why it is important not to listen to the useless shout of Biafra. It is not possible and would NEVER happen. The force against it is too many. Even if the west support it. west Africa politics would block it. Biafra would be block in west Africa and Africa.


Removing the Yorubas, edo, delta and bayelsa into Benin republic would pass in the west Africa parliament by a 90% vote. All countries in west Africa would support it and 90% of Africa countries would vote yes to the decision. It is the only solution to avoid a civil war.

Did you grow up in the village?

Beaf:
You seem to be an undying optimist. The ship is sinking and there is no definition of stern or bow, so no pilot can save it. The only positive sense of organisation in Nigeria lies in Biafra, ND and Oduduwa. Arewa gets 1% of our oil proceeds and is as poor as Somalia.
I'm not for union for sentimental reasons.

Sentiments are far from it. "Sensibility" has more to do with it.

Your ideals are moving people backwards and not forward which is why I cannot support nor encourage anyone to do so.

Belief is a very powerful sentiment. It is much stronger than any organized minds of mass chaos.

Beaf:
Yes I think so. What can be worse than the quote below?
Read this new york times article and hold your head in shame for your country.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/world/africa/11nigeria.html

I don't see how the article should make me hold my head in shame. It simply discusses the failure of the "Amnesty" package for the groups concerned. A similar program was hatched during the RUF and AFRC's reign of terror which less we forget began a " liberation for the people" and culmunated into a reign of anarchy and terror. Thousands died and for what?. What is the significant change you see in these countries?

Though Nigeria is deteriorating as a unified entity, The likes of Mend, Arewa republic and so on are only waiting for the ship to sink or the spoils of war so they can loot as much as possible in the disguise of helping the mass of people. Tell me what part of all the kidnap money Mend and theri kidnapping counter parts is going to the people in those regions or being used to procure more weaponry in anticipation of a war.

Liberia and Sierra leonean are stark historical examples of a country run amoc with stupid infighting and illiterate leaders.

The revolution will be by the people not these pockets of nonsense war mongering organizations you uphold.

I have Zero trust for any one of them and don't see any long term sincerity of the people concerned.

If you want bloodshed war, no problem. I hope you can stand the site of dead women and children all over the news.

Beaf:
This is the beginning of the end for our band of thieves. The time is ripe for Biafra, ND Republic and Odudduwa to press their cases. We should at the very least gain huge concessions.

And you think if the mofo organizations on top get their way it will be a better life for you.

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. !

yoruba:
This sums up the entire thread, now this topic shall rest

immadosumn:
I hate to keep the very inflammatory rhetoric of this thread alive, but I just couldn't resist

So here it goes:

- As a Nigerian who lived in SA for more than 10 years ( through the first general elections that elected Madiba to Mbeki's political demise) I have what you might call, a first hand knowledge of life in SA, post apartheid.

- SA, like most multi cultural/multi-racial societies is still largely polarized along the lines of race, sex and of course, class. The ruling black elite only replaced the Afrikaner National Party in largely symbolic terms. There's no "real change" in the lives and future outlook of everyday South African blacks. The same ones, whose parents and grandparents were at the receiving end of the Boer brutality, still largely remain in their AIDS infested, crime ridden and sadly, poverty stricken "shacks" as they call them; sprinkled on the fringes of every major South African city, much like the defunct Apartheid system designed it.

- SA blacks are not helping matters, if anything, they actually make it worse for themselves. Xenophobic outbursts such as recently demonstrated in the riots of 2 years ago, profiles for the keen observer, the real mindset of these Africans.

- The Boers created a class system with the European invaders (slave masters) being at the top of the food-chain, the "Coloureds" (Mulattos) in second place, the imported Indian slaves in third place and you guessed right, the real owners of the land at the bottom of the food-chain. Access to education and socioeconomic opportunities was rationed along the lines of this class structure. This still largely permeates in every specter of society, today.

- SA blacks are NOT like the rest of black Africa. Their genetic disposition makes it impossible for them to empathize with each other, much less Makwerekweres (a commonly used derogatory term for foreigners) from "North Africa", as these sadly mostly ignorant people refer to the rest of Africa. In fairness though, hundreds of years of living under the gun pretty much made it impossible for SA blacks to evolve like the rest of Africa did, ie, managing or would I rather say, mismanaging our own affairs - at least we mostly did it, our way; SA blacks sadly, cant say that.

- @ Thabo's line of argument here shows you only a minute part of how blacks in SA see the rest of Africa.

- Dont get me wrong, there are very well traveled and very cultured blacks in SA, but you will have to go through a bunch of jerks like @ Thabo before finding any. They will rather not want to be identified with their fellow blacks in SA.

- I remember growing up in Nigeria and there was an elderly SA couple living as tenants of my dad's, while both lecturing in a State University. I first learnt much about the brutality of Apartheid from this very political couple as an inquisitive preteen. I also remember they enjoyed their time in Nigeria with both their daughters even being married to Nigerians.

To sum it up, SA with all of its technological and industrial development cannot be really compared to the rest of Africa. The country was created and designed by the Boer farmers (trekkers) and the Brits for their own consumption. It was never created with the desire of one day giving it up to the ill equipped Africans to plunder. Ten years on, their fears seem a little justified. SA blacks have a very vibrant trade union and skilled labor force; but not enough to meet the challenges the new dispensation faces.

Giant of Africa or not, Nigeria has always played a role in these issues. I don't see that changing very soon. As they would say in SA, black is lekker! My 2c.

Extremely good insight into the situation. It is very obvious you have spent some time in the country and have analysied it to the best of your ability.

I spent some time there too and agree with your analysis 100%,now only if the SA's can borrow some of this insights and better themselves. We wil lal lbe good for it.

sinako:
All of you are right in a way, South Africa is Xenophobic even to its own people sometimes, I mean a person can be a bit unfriendly to you just because they looked at you and thought you dont look south african.

What is the typical south African look and how different is it from typical southern African and east African looks.

sinako:
I dont think people not being friendly to each other is because of Xenophonia, the thing is when you walking in the road you dont just greet people,it doesnt work like that, you only do that at you own village in the deep limpopo where you will be greeting your neighbours cousins cousins.No body is interested in the other person in the city, I`m sure its the same in lagos.

As bad as lagos is , thats not common practice in the city.

sinako:
The Xenophobic attacks were do to with inferiority complex. South Africans blacks have been told so much that being white is better that being black so your avarage NON-south african coming to SA with a darker skin reminds the SA guy than you just like me I guess
The second thing is that most Non-south africans work very hard and you will find someone coming into the country with nothing and then opening up shop and making money, your avarage SA guy just gets drunk and waits for the free government houses, so there is recentment that you come into my country and you do better that me.
Another thing is the women, SA women love foreigners and they normally have a pick at the best ones and it doesnt go down well with the SA guy

The sooner you come to grips with this, the sooner you will understand yourselfs more and quicker you will reach your full potential. The country is yours and will always be, you jsut have to tap into its resources.

As far as SA women liking other Africans( I don't like the use of the word foreigner, its very alienating), well on average there a lot more good's looking. There's nothing we can do about that.