₦airaland Forum

HarryDuce:
I beg to differ. The regions just outside the equator are the hottest and the Kalahari is just outside the equator. Low humidity and dryness are peculiar to the regions that fall in this category. There are many factors responsible for this. Also, The equator is not the hottest but humidity is very high. The situation can be likened to Sahara also where the natives are not as dark as their neighbours down south in spite of the heat.

I agree with the bold.

There is a correlation with skin tone and distance from the equator though

sherlock229:
yeah khoisans looks more Asian especially since they're very light skinned too. but you can't deny Yoruba does share the look too.

Their facial morphology is similar to that of Asians who also carry the same type of eyefolds as well.

Yoruba do not have these eyefolds.

The lighter variant of skin tones in the khoi I would attribute to adaptation and natural selection to their sub tropical environment, They are closer to the color of the Kalahari desert and further away from the sun that is hottest around the equator

sherlock229:
why do Yorubas tends to have Asian like features compared to any Nigerian groups.
just an observation .

this is to prove race is just a social construct.


comparison.

just a google search,this two looks really alike lol
simi(Nigerian Yoruba) and chipo Chung(Zimbabwe/Chinese actress)


also Sade the singer have the feature too,she's half white and half yoruba but technically the Yoruba side is what gives her the Asian like looks.

also most Yoruba terracotas have Asian features.

I wouldn't say similar, I would say their eyes are further away from the center of their head that's why.

these people below are the Africans that look more asian

Swashy4:
I am from Ugbodu and I am proudly IGBO,PROUDLY Anioma. Yes we migrated from the old oyo empire but time,fate and events today has made us "DELTA IGBOS " as you may choose or Ndi Anioma.

Migration is not peculiar to just ugbodu,it occurred everywhere in the world.

Bros you are the only one that has made sense on this thread, migration is a natural human behavior. Groups of people become assimulated into one identity or multiple identities and therefore ethnic identifications are fluid as far as human history is concerned.

A simple resolution to many groups of people in the ANIOMA region would be a comprehensive DNA study to confirm founder populations.


IF this group of people are hybrids or have assimilated their Ytdna and their mitrochondial DNA will confirm who their founding fathers and mothers are thus all this grammar and this historical references can only be corroborated with genetic evidence

I wish I had the funding, I would definitely embark on such a project.

urahara:
Abeggggiiii


These lies have been thoroughly debunked time and time again

What part of the statement are lies, pray enlighten my ignorance?

SMH

AtaniWarrior:
Garamantes Kingdom as well. The list goes on. Africa was home to a lot of kingdoms, empires, and states. It is very fascinating.

Please note that in comparison to what is now referenced as empires, these Kingdoms could sparsely pass as "empires" in the modern use of the word "dynasty' or "kingdoms" would be more appropriate.

Case in point, the Zulu's were a Kingdom but definitely not an Empire in the modern sense of the word.

urahara:
Is it that sub Saharan African kingdoms are so underwhelming that a lot of blacks are forced to claim that Moors and egyptains and Greeks were black.

Well technically speaking Moors and Egyptians had stocks of sub Saharan peoples so it is not incorrect to conclude that there were black people from these ethnic groups.

McStoic:
How many of you have heard of the story of the 75 Igbo slaves who overpowered their ship in Dunbar Creek, Georgia and went ahead to commit mass suicide in 1803 (This one is not related to Olaudah Equiano, another Igbo)
This post is not meant to stoke tribalism. The discourse going in another trade about major tribes active in the transatlantic slave trade just reminded me of this fact. The Igbo nation is really one hell of a freedom minded and courageous one. You can browse through this link:

https://blackpast.org/aah/igbo-landing-mass-suicide-1803

This has been documented and is quite factual. In the movie black panther, Kilmonger references this fact when he states that he would rather die like his ancestors who preferred suicide to bondage.

It is also quite documented in Igbo culture that when you die no matter where you are at you return to the land of the spirits to be with your ancestors.

bigfrancis21:
Lolz, nah. I was referring to some SE Igbos born and bred in Lagos who detest their own tribe to curry favor from other tribes. They try their best to appear 'unigbotic' or neutral as much as possible and display much less pride in their heritage.

Now, that's what I'm talking about.

The issue goes both ways. When Igbo's from Lagos return back to their home towns, they are castigated and ostracized by the inhabitants. They are often considered not "Igbotic- enough" or lack a deeper knowledge of the language.

An Igbo who grows up in Yoruba culture is bound to associate and present himself as such, that is just common sense, your mannerism and demeanor is shaped by your environment. case in point, when I discovered burna boy was not a Yoruba boy I was equally shocked because he presents himself as such and therefore regardless of his ethnic heritage and origins has grown up Yoruba.

In my time in South Africa as well, I noticed this phenomena where if one group of people moved to an are that ws predominantly of another ethnic gropu they would identify with that group regardless.

Brenda Fassie is a Xhosa woman who grew up in Soweto and so identifies more as a Zulu than her own ethnic group


In my opinion using the war as a narrative to why this phenomena is present is juvenile, in my opinion the fact that the Igbo is the most mobile of all ethnicities in Nigeria lends more credence to this phenomena and you will therefore have varying degrees of Igbo identity with the strongest representation in the South East

Shikena

ayinba1:
I don't agree with everything that kingshango posts, he seems obsessed with pedophiles and homosexuals and that derails his message a lot.
Having said that, it is sometimes necessary to format ones brain to open it to the possibilities of a different narrative. We have all been fed a certain version.

Pray tell, what aspect of the earliest moors' resembles Islamic/Arabian culture?

Please share with us.

First we must agree on a couple of things:

1. When you say "earliest" Moors, what do you mean. Are you using this word to describe a race of people, a civilization?
2. What is the etymology or origins of the use of this particular designation.
3. What is the definition of the word in modern and ancient times.
4. What is the ethno linguistic and ethno-religious identity of what or who was considered a "Moor'


Etymology

"North African, Berber," late 14c., from Old French More, from Medieval Latin Morus, from Latin Maurus "inhabitant of Mauretania" (northwest Africa, a region now corresponding to northern Algeria and Morocco), from Greek Mauros, perhaps a native name, or else cognate with mauros "black" (but this adjective only appears in late Greek and may as well be from the people's name as the reverse). Being a dark people in relation to Europeans, their name in the Middle Ages was a synonym for "Negro;" later (16c.-17c.) used indiscriminately of Muslims (Persians, Arabs, etc.) but especially those in India.


Definition

[I]Moor
noun (2)
\ˈmu̇r
1 : one of the Arab and Berber conquerors of Spain
2 : berber [/I]



Ethno-linguistic - Ethno-religious

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Moor-people


All these three sources denote that the people designated as "Moors" emanate from the Arab-Andalusian civilization in and around the Iberian Pennisula The origins begin in North and North west Africa dating from the 7th to the 11th century, therefore their culture would be predominantly or heavily influenced by Arab/Islamic culture which predates and who's origins are not indigenous to Africa.

Berber/Amazigh and West African culture or civilizations existed before the introduction of Arab/Islamic culture to the area, therefore Moorish culture or civilizations would have elements of its previous cultural practices but the most pronounced would be the dominant culture.

Please note that I do not subscribe to the strict use of the word "moor" by some Afro-centrists to denote "Black people" especially of the sub Saharan variant" but rather a peoples who originate from a geographical area in Africa that include more than one variant of indigenous African phenotypes. Therefore the pictures posted by Rossik are selective and disingenuous in my opinion.

All those pics really convey is that "black people" were present in European regions in antiquity and in all ranks of society. That is not an argument.

Rossikki:
You are absolutely crazy.

Read very "slowly" next time before your ichy fingers jump on your keyboard to reveal your s.t.u.p.i.d.i.ty by posting pictures of "black African people" in medieval and Roman times

The indication is that Moorish rule in the Iberian Penisula is "derived" from the ISLAMIC/ARAB incursions into the Magreb ak.a. North Africa, therefore "technically" speaking they are not an indigenous African civilization since the caliphates arose from West Asia.

The area which the "moors" emanate from are a combination of several African civilizations usurped by the Islamic conquest of the Maghreb inclusive of West African, Berber/Amazigh and other ethnic groups influenced genetically and culturally by the visgoths and vandals in North Africa.

There is no singular "black African moor culture/civilization" in Africa. If there is point to it.


Afro-centric gibberish should never be mistaken for Pan Africanism.

hayoholla:
Africans were not the first people in china bro, blacks were! There are indeginous blacks in places apart from africa.

What is an indigenous black?

Where do you think they migrated or originated from.

These groups retained their "africoid" adaptations on their journeys ot of the contintnet over a span of about 60,000 to 100,000 years ago, some so much so that you would mistake them for a contemporary African if you didn't know any better.

AtaniWarrior:
That’s interesting. DNA is very intricate. I will definitely do more research.

Regarding the Igboid groups I respect your views. The situation is complicated. Igbo cohesion has a lot of potential to accomplish even greater things. Same with the other groups in Nigeria and Africa as a whole. With the right mindset of the people and good leadership, the sky is the limit.

Genetics is amazing, if I could go back I would most definitely have been a geneticist. The patterns and discoveries are intriguing and mind blowing.

Nigerians should simply accept that no group should try to dominate the other and instead focus on building a nation state and not cultural enclaves who wish to wield power that bears no fruit. Like I said earlier I am all for self determination and if my blood brother wished to marry a Yoruba woman and his children see it fit to change their names to Nwa-Ayodele and call carve out for themselves a new ethnic identity, it will never change or dismiss the fact that their father was my blood brother. The genetics will tell the true story.

YOU WANT TROBLE FOR SOUTH FA!

AtaniWarrior:
Thank you for the information. Perhaps the E1b1a7 and E1b1a7a subclades originated in Central or Southern Nigeria? E1b1a8 subclade from the Nigerian/Cameroon border area? E1b1a8a and E1b1a8a1 subclades from Southern Cameroon?

I think these areas are where the subclades might have the highest frequencies. Hopefully we will get more information from future DNA tests.

The diversity of this haplogroup is more prevalent in West Africa which is why the hypothesis is that it originated more West-central than anywhere else. It is possible that E1b1a7 originated somewhere in central Africa but much closer to Sudan and the Central African republic than to say the Congo but definitely not in Southern Africa. The Migration flows from central( closer to Sudan) to the west then back to east and then down central via Cameroon then down South.


Please note that E1b1a is the not the oldest Ytdna haplogroup in Africa but was the most successful of all to populate the continent via the Bantu expansion. Ethiopians, Somali, Nubians, Southern sudanese and many North east African's carry an older version of this Ydna but not the E1b1a mutation.


All the so called Igboid groups such as Ika, etche, Ikwerre and the likes are most likely of igob "stock' in my opinion, the indicators point to this conclusion but again it will not be tested. Nigeria doesn't have any Universities that are researched based that will even ponder this question so it will remain in the arena of socio-political discourse.

Sad!


source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_populations_of_Sub-Saharan_Africa

AtaniWarrior:
Is the E1b1a7 haplogroup the dominant paternal lineage for Igbo people?

I believe so however other subclades of E1b1a such as E1b1a7a8a are also spread across the Igbo and other closer groups around the surrounding area. The clade E1b1a unifies most West African, central and Southern Africans.

I do believe however that in addition an autosomal DNA test would also be needed to accurately determine "founder populations" of all these so called "igboid" groups.

The suffix letters and numbers at the end of the subclades are simply added mutations and help to determine what specific "ethnic group" possess these unique mutations

African Ancestry which is a test that differentiates itself from say 23&men and ancestry.com does a better job in pinpointing the actual "ethnic group" in Africa one comes from and the more tests done the more accurate their predictions would be.


The Ytdna would tie these so called Igboid groups first of all to specific groups in the South of Nigeria, then specific mutations would narrow down to the specific ethnic groups as well.

Mtdna would find out if their women came from the same ethnic grouping or from other surrounding groups and finally the autosomal would determine how close in complete genetic makeup they are to each group in the surrounding area.

They will not include these possibilities in their discussions however because I suspect a more sinister geo political motive in play.

Nnamdi who, Abeggiii

Tell that man make him stay for Jerusalem, if he come back we go stone am.


Runaway Soldier!

Na today dem start Xenophobia.

Abegiiiiii!!! shift one side.

Xenophobia ko, Xenophobia ni

agbotaen:
1. igbos should respect ika nation and people , our resolve to be ika is very ancient and even the british knows it , we resisted being benin and in 1930 , our fathers wrote to the british telling them in clear terms that ika is not part of any known ethnic group in nigeria, and in 1967 , during the civil war igbos also claimed ika and our elders also rejected that claim and rejected biafra .
2. nduka is his first name and its definitely igbo , but his surname is obaigbena and its benin or edo and so what does that tell you , igbos should realise that ika people came into ika in different waves from benin, ishan, ora, ndokwa, aniocha and igbo land and even yoruba , so its a mixed race , but the core founders came from edo areas , but over time we have evolved into a seperate and distinct ethnicity and as such we are ika ethnic group and we should be respected .
3. we were called eka , later changed into ika , we had ogunagbon or agbon later changed in 1906 into agbor , we know our history and we are ika people and if igbos want to kill them selves on ika issues thats their business.
4. ika is a large ethnic group covering many areas in delta and edo state , and majority of ika people believe they are ika , but we have a small percentage from the eastern corridors in some parts of igbodo and ekwoma that say they are igbos , thats ok , but 99 percent of ika people belong to ogua/onu ika as the highest socio-political group for ika nation , just like igbos have ohaneze ndigbo .
5. we know some ika people have igbo names mostly as their first name but that does not make them igbos , just like we have majority of ikas with family names that are of edo.benin origin , and that does not make them benins , but we know we are ika thats what we call our selves and we do not add ibo to it , but out of ignorant many write whatever they like .
6. ika people are confident and we have made many brake throughs and by the grace of God , we will become the next governor of delta state .
7. nduka obaigbena is a proud prince from owa and ika , and so am i proud of being ika, i dont want to be any thing else .
8. moreover igbo nation was organised and created by europeans , it did not exist 200 years ago, so those who believe they are igbo that is their business and we that believe we are ika , thats our business , i dont even see the great similarity between ika and igbo ?
9. itsekiri in delta arose from both yoruba and benin and they are a different ethnicity , isoko and uhrobo speak very similar language and has similar culture and yet they are different ethnic groups, so nearness of language between ika and igbo does not make them same ethnic group.
10. kpanmiose is a proper ika name and many ika bear it today , am only sorry for ikas that decide to give their children igbo names over the beautiful ika names that abound

Ika people should run massive tests on their people for Y-dna and find out once and for all who their founding fathers are.

You people are spinning stories left right and center, it is possible that Ika may have merged with other groups of people but with genetics and the patriarchy system practiced in this part of the world, a simple genetic test of Y-dna, Mtdna and atdna will map what groups are "founders" and what group were incorporated.

Linguists and anthropologist note that there is a strong correlation between genetics and similar lexicons, grammar and alphabet structure within two groups of people in close proximity, in other words if two people speak a somewhat mutually intelligible language they both emanate from the same "founder" population.

Any thing else regarding this matter is subjective heresay, folk tales and possible historical fabrications. A history or self determination based on lies is a lie in and of itself.

DNA does not lie!

Shikena

RedboneSmith:
Oh. So I am not the only one that dislikes the hyphenated thing we do with Igbo groups. That thing just comes across to me as trying too hard. No one writes Zulu-Nguni or Asante-Akan or Alsatian-German.

Grammatically it is even confusing. It suggests that one is talking about two things that are actually distinct, but treated as a unit in that particular context. Like Sino-Japanese, Graeco-Roman, German-American, Afro-Arab.

It may be confusing grammatically but it does relate two things that have some sort of linear relationship.

ChinenyeN:
morpheus24, you're still not getting it. At this point right now, it doesn't matter what will be disingenuous or wrong. The seeds sown post-civil war have germinated. It is too late to be stressing over that. All that matters now is the sentiment, because that is what it is now reduced to. No one wants to be a subgroup. It doesn't matter how you try to explain it. Even I cringe a bit seeing "Ngwa-Igbo". Why does the "Igbo" part HAVE be there? So, leave them to their sentiments. Sentiment is something that exists irrespective of truths or facts. Give up. They are not your headache.

I can't give up my dear, it is my job to dig the truth out regardless of sentiment and discourse is absolutely necessary. Think if distortions of history were left to remain as is, how that would affect history today. I can't accept "lies". That's just how I am wired.

My audience is not necessarily Viscerion and his ilk but a wider array of different minds and thinkers which nairaland offers, I would like to believe there are level headed people involved in this issue who would consider some of the things being put forward to advance the truth.

My opinion



As regards the hyphenations, well depends on the motive for the use of the hyphenation.

CloudKickin:
So I’m just curious to know whether some parents have that tribalist mindset. Me personally my dad is an Edo man and my mom is an Igbo woman, My boyfriend happens to be Calabar so I don’t have any issues with my parents wanting me to date a specific tribe n blah blah blah, curious to hear your thoughts and experiences

Op, I don't think its that easy to label such parents as "tribalists". There are several reasons parents advise their children to marry in group as opposed to outside, most of this is usually based on maintaining close cultural ties with the extended families and reducing the possibility of friction. A tribalist I assume is someone who deems his own group as superior to others and therefore discriminates based on this "superiority" complex

In my experience most southerners do not display this type of tribalism as such, I see more of this attitude from Northern groups in terms of Religion and ethnicity than Southerners.

ChinenyeN:
You guys are still arguing over Ikwerre, Ika, etc. You people honestly don't even get it. No one wants to be a 'sub-tribe'. The moment you get that through your skulls and the moment you realize that it doesn't matter how you try to explain it, is the moment you will find peace with the matter.

Sub-tribe for what?

There is nothing such as a sub-tribe, that denotes something on the top and something below. As a Historian and future anthropologist with a love for the continent, What is important for me is not the socio-political arguement or the right to self determination. It is the possible lies and fabrications that emanate out of the desire to self determine, as I have said before, a history or self determination based on lies is a lie in and of itself no matter any which way one seeks to twist it.

It will be dis-ingenious and a great wrong to build generations of Ikwerre identities on the basis of lies. Self determine all you want but please build it on solid information and not on possible fabrications.

If Ikwerre emanates from a founder "igbo" population please verify such information and move on with your self determination, if they emanate from a founder Ijaw or Edo group then please verify. If they are a hybrid of two peoples that became one then verify. STOP THE LIES!

Tell them to take DNA test make them know who their PAPA and MAMA be!

Shikena

AtaniWarrior:
Good question. The evidence is based on the genetic relationship between the Kwa and Bantu speakers. I agree that the Bantu and Kwa speakers have common ancestors.

I am aware that Bantu is essentially a language family. The Igbo language does not belong to the Bantu language family.

What is your view on the theory that the Proto Igbo speakers came from the Niger Benue Confluence?

It is likely that proto Igbo groups did come from that confluence or via that route, the only reason being the more you move West the lesser the language and genetics tie to the Bantu, plus expansion predate those of the bantu estimated to be about 1000BC.

Sene-gambians, Fulani, Twi, Kru, Asante and many other essentially "Niger" speakers differ more and more phenotypical and linguistically from the Bantu or groups closer to the Bantu. It would support the theory that there were probably waves of groups in the West-Central or Benue-Congo confluence that migrated West ward of Africa with proto Igbo, Efik, Igala groups constituting the last waves of people in the West making them much closer relatives to the groups that headed central, east and South.

viscerion:
our definition of a tribe is not based on those test criterias, if it were so all SS wud probably be same tribe but its not so

why do people always talk of history so confidently as if they were actually there when these things were happening, even the bible, The great word of God, has been shown that due to writing style of the authors of the diff books and lots of translactions has some reportive errors in telling events, thats THE BIBLE, not to talk of what was writing by one oyibo tourist who probably just wrote what he FELT, n all of us swallow it as unquestionable fact, wat a shame

1.The whole bible analogy doesn't make sense to me on first read, maybe I need to dissect it a little slower.

2. If you are refuting what was studied or postulated by writers and linguists of early times then that's fair enough, they might have been wrong since they have incorrectly placed certain groups together based on similar languages but then what is the premise or base of refutation. The inference they make is based on a correlation of language, ethnicity culture and ergo a possible founder population. They didn't say that they were 100% accurate, only that the confidence intervals were high based on correlation.

In logic correlation does not imply causation , therefore if two groups share similar languages, similar customs and near proximity, the probabilities that they are of the same stock can be high but not necessarily a cause of emanating from a source or founder population.

Fast forward to present day where DNA is able to ascertain with a 99.9% accuracy level if the Y-dtna, Mtdna or ATdna match when two populations are tested, to determine origins and VOILA!, problem solved.

viscerion:
our elders should organize massive DNA test just to convince you, bcus u r so important that we care what you believe, mtcheew

I contend that You have no sound arguments any longer and simply playing around for the sake of it. It will not take any massive DAN test case to come to certain conclusions, simply go to a small village in your area where it is likely that these populations have not intermingled with other ethnic groups in the sounding area, take a good sample of DNA, test and see what the results says in comparison to Igbo DNA,

If the sample size cluster with IJaw DNA then the founding populations of the Ikwerre most likely emanated from the IjAw nation, then you can come back as smack that report right in the face of these Igbos who continue to assert their cultural and linguistic dominance over you.

Do it for your people and your future generations so their heritage and origins are not based on lies and sentiments, don't do it for me o!

magicjack:
we don do test already, if you nor believe go rock transformer

Another Fabrication.

That guy na berom people

AtaniWarrior:
It is evident that Bantu and Kwa speakers are related. Igbo people as a whole are not Bantu and they do not come from Central Africa.

is the evidence based on Language or on genetics?

The reason I ask is because a lot of people tend to use bantu, which is a linguistic classification to delineate race, which is incorrect, while it is evident that Bantu and kwa probably emerged from the same stock of peoples a lot of West Africans did not

viscerion:
i know someone will say "so if as an igbo man, my son decides hes no longer igbo, will dat automatically change his igbo status?" well remember that we all come from one place but since we no longer call ourselves jews, den overtime that boy's descendants can stand as a diff tribe

in the first place, igbo dont even have any strong proof dat ikwerre originated from igbo, only deir mumu logic of " if they speak igbo, they are igbo" come to SS and see that kind of logic fail

Still dancing around with semantics here. ''if the genealogical, cultural, linguistic and etymological tests fail to show that two people are of the same stock, there is one undeniable test that will resolve the issue.


Your people know what to do to shut these "lieing" Igbos up once and for all.

Ancestry.com and 23andMe is your friend, una get community for abroad that can afford the test. Please advocate for that

And this goes for the rest of the so called Anioma peoples, una people full for abroad, make una do the needful, otherwise all your lamenting na political manueavers.

viscerion:
dont think ure so smart, smart guyz neva brag, thing is i ask a simple question but since u want to complicate it let me help you,

u may or may not know that the grouping of people in nigeria in tribes is based on the convention definition of a tribe according to the average nigerian logic, now since dat definition is wat created d yoruba, igbo n oda groups distinction, my question was based on this conventional definition and not on a technical term (which can have an endless range of universal definitions depending on the relativity of the people in question) now according to nigerian convention urhobo n isoko are diff tribes despite relative closeness as seen by outsiders (anyone who doesnt know dis is not well informed bout our constitution n d people from dis tribes,) now if despite strong similarities both groups r differentiated, then ikwerre n igbo (which dont not even ve as much resemblance as urhobo n isoko) based on same normal logic are not the same tribe, any technical definition dat makes igbo n ikwerre d same tribe also makes igbo n yoruba d same tribe.

hope u were smart enough to understand

1.If you are some how trying to use the isoko-urhobo( who are basically the same people) dynamics to compare the Ikwerre-Igbo situation then you are pretty much admitting that the latter are the same people but self identify as two different "tribes".

2.the isoko-urhobo would pass the geneaological, cultural, linguistic and genetics tests because they did not fabricate their origins, they simply self determined and two different distinct tribes emerged who's language and cultural practices are pretty much the same. This is not novel as many groups in Africa have done so, the Zulu-Swati are one such group, the Basotho-Batswana are another , The Nyasa-Shona another. This as you know is not the case with the Ikwerre- Igbo dilemma.

3. In the ikwerre-Igbo arguement the genealogical, cultural and linguistict tests are all in contention because they are subjective and can be manipulated. The only objective test we are left with is the genetics.

No matter how much you try to dance or hide behind labels like "tribe" and the likes whose conventional meanings are quite fluid, it is quite easy for your people to end this merry go round but you will not advocate for that because you are terrified that you might find out something deep inside you already knew.

pazienza:
Well, the people of Austria and Germany speak the same language, yet an Austrian will never accept being called a German.
A people are who they want to and claim to be. You can't do anything about it.
What I don't like is a situation where it would seem like Ndiigbo are wooing or forcing Ikwerre to be Igbo, thereby inflating their(Ikwerre) egos.

Ikwerre people have continiously insisted they are not Igbo, unanimously. This is the position of apex Ikwerre socio-cultural organization called Ogbakor Ikwerre.

There are native German speaking clans scattered all over Austria, Italy, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, even France. Yet you don't see Germany losing sleep over these groups not wanting to be part of Germany, this is so because, the people of Germany has so much developed Germany to dizzy heights, that addition or non addition of these groups to Germany has become inconsequential.

Ikwerre is just 3 and half LGA, Ph city is their only Big city, yet they share it with the ambitious Ijaws. Ikwerre has no direct access to the Atlantic, their lands are not particularly "too" rich in crude oil. Ikwerre is not exactly known for producing high number of world standard human resources.
I don't see anything special they would bring to the rest of Igbo nation to warrant this endless argument about their identity.

They say they are not Igbo, it's their right to be whatever they want, and Ndiigbo must stop dragging the issue, as it's becoming embarrassing.

YAWN!!!!

same dribble.

The question for me has never been about self determination. You are free to self determine or self actualize.

The question for me is about the possible fabrications of peoples origins for socio political purposes.

Self determination that is based on lies is a LIE in and of itself.


If you started off as "Ikwerre" and have no genetic ties to the Igbo of the South east( The linguistic ties are undeniable) then take the genetic test and end this merry-go- round. If Yoruba man test he will know, if Hausa man test he will know, if Fulani test he will know, if Zulu man test him self go know.

Ps, the example you used is horrible. Germanic tribes remain Germanic tribes whether they exist in Germany itself, Switzerland, Italy or Austria. Genealogy, genetics, language and culture points to that. No fabrications.

pazienza:
Ikwerre is Ikwerre. Ikwerre is not Igbo.

Can this argument end already?

The argument ended when the OP could not produce substantial evidence of any kind other than old folk tales and some gibberish about what constitutes a tribe.

Your Honor, the prosecution rests!