₦airaland Forum

parisbookaddict:
i gave a far more detailed answer before. the second one was an attempt to explain why he may need not have stated it directly. there are better explanations

You are jumping the gun.
There wasn't a request in the question that responders should explain away their answers

parisbookaddict:
i like your answer but it too does not give a direct answer as to why Jesus did not directly refer to him self as God

My answer, where I outrightly confirmed that, it is true that Jesus never DIRECTLY referred to Himself as God, didn't require me explaining why Jesus didn't.
That is because DeSepiero didn't ask for an explanation(s) why

parisbookaddict:
if i say he did not refer to himself as God, with a simplistic NO answer as you suggested and not mention all the evidence to show that he was recognized as God and was treated as such, as well as imply it, it will be a disservice to anybody reading this argument who is confused on the subject

It wouldn't do your credibility any harm especially as you like doing and going about preaching.
It will be you just being honest.
It would have been after confirming with a "No", that could pre-emptively add on follow up explanation(s)

parisbookaddict:
let my use this simplistic analogy.

How many times have you referred to your self as human or in the third person. But you are treated as a human by your peers and not a sheep or dog. Does that not in itself imply that you are human without you directly stating to everyone that you are human. The evidence of Christs divinity cannot be doubted from historical records, anti-christs and muslims who often ask for a simplistic yes or no answer to the aforementioned question are simply looking to create doubt when a No answer is given

Jesus doesn't owe anybagger any explanation about who He is.
Jesus doesn't have to prove to anybagger who He is.
Jesus doesn't have to directly refer Himself, to anybagger, as God.

I don't buy the "create doubt" sentiment, because you've just proven that it isn't rocket science to explain the reason why, and if that is so, what was so difficult in starting with a "No" answer then.

The point is that, there will always be doubting Thomases, whether anyone says, No, or says, Yes, to DeSepiero's question, so why not bite the bullet and say at the earliest opportunity the honest truth

parisbookaddict:
Jesus is the Son of God and part of God. Jesus saying he is God ignores the triune nature of God. there is God the father and he, Jesus God the son. Every bible reading christian knows this but muslims cant seem to grasp this.

Who asked you about all these or who asked for this long winded answer

The question DeSepiero asked was:
I'm wondering, 'is there any verse of the new testament which quotes Jesus directly referring to himself as God?'

I for one never once expected Jesus to DIRECTLY say or claim to be God anyway because His essence, His works, His persona etcetera proves Him to be God

We never read Jesus denying the Jews' accusation(s) that He claims(ed) to be God.

Can bet my bottom dollar, you too know as well as I do, why Jesus never refuted, disputed or denied He claimed to be God.

The reason why Jesus didn't refute, dispute, deny or argue is because He is God

Now sticking to the area of the question, the area being that, did Jesus directly refer Himself as God

Why are you finding it so difficult in giving a binary answer, such as either saying Yes or No before anything else you write in response to DeSepiero's question.

adetayo234:
Has anyone ever told you before that you are behaving like a ...

Don't worry you'll soon bite more than you can chew, then you'll know that Karma gives you back what you deserve

adetayo234:
You have a big inferiority problem o.

You can't even manage being original.
Carry on and watch your inadequacy become infamous.

adetayo234:
Why are you craving attention like an im.becile?

Put it this way, maybe it's because I have an aversion to any adetayo234s that refuse and/or can't give a honest response to a simple and clearly asked DeSepiero question

adetayo234:
Dey there they spew meaningless English; don't goan make your life useful for yourself.
For your information, I didn't even read the trash you wrote

Why am I not surprised you didn't read?

If you couldn't read properly enough to respond correctly to DeSepiero's simple and clearly written question, what then made you think the benefit of what I wrote was for you.

Please carry go with sorry self inferiority complex. Mtchew. Tufiakwa. Tu ito e danu.

adetayo234:
Abeg goan find something meaningful to do with your life instead of behaving as if your life depends on nairaland

Regardless of whatever motives might be behind DeSepiero's simple and straightforward question, courtesy demands that the available honest answer be given that Jesus did not anywhere in the New Testament DIRECTLY say He is God.

It isn't that a hard question, that needed labouring over or tweaking an answer for

I never for once expected Jesus to DIRECTLY say or claim to be God anyway because His essence, His works, His persona etcetera proves Him to be God

charlsecy:
As this involves significant identification of the person of Christ, don't you think we should NOT be dealing with indirect reference? Is Jesus being GOD not that important that it should be relegated to allusion?

We never read Jesus denying the Jews' accusation(s) that He claims(ed) to be God.

Can bet my bottom dollar, you too know as well as I do, why Jesus never refuted, disputed or denied He claimed to be God.

Jesus didn't refute, dispute, deny or argue because He is God

parisbookaddict:
cc
cure your doubts
MuttleyLaff
walls01
samuelsontech

Jesus calls himself (and is called) "son of God" dozens of time. Infact this is what led to his crucifixion since the Jews claimed he committed blasphemy.
He forgave sins, something only God does.
People he healed fell on their knees and worshipped him and yet he didn't say No don't worship me.
We Christians know on earth he had 2 natures human(son of man) and divine(son of God)

Jesus helped people who called him Lord, and never rebuked when people worshipped him (Matthew 14:30-33)
Moreover in John 5:22-23 22 , the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honour the Son just as they honour the Father. Whoever does not honour the Son does not honour the Father, who sent him.
Check also Mathew 11:27, 17:5,John 5:17-18 and peters answer to Christ's question about who he was in Mathew 16:16.

The scripture is also very clear in;
1 John 2:22, 'Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that
Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:2-3 "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world." Several times this term is used in the plural, and can be applied to almost anyone who is opposed to Christ. Those who deny that Jesus came in the flesh are anti-Christ or of the spirit of antichrist.

So in conclusion;
God the father acknowledged Jesus as his son (john 17:5)
Jesus called himself the Son of God.
His disciples called him the son of God.
Isaiah from the old testament prophesied about him and called him the son of God.
Angel Gabriel in the first chapter of Luke called Jesus the Son of God.
John the baptist called Jesus the son of God.
The Jews who hated him accused him of claiming he is the Son of God
Even Demons he casted out called him the son of God.

i wonder what other proves from the bible the anti-christs of this world need

I'm wondering, 'is there any verse of the new testament which quotes Jesus directly referring to himself as God?'
- DeSepiero ©

parisbookaddict, have a good look at the above question from DeSepiero again
and let's start to be honest with each other,
now after you have gone over your response, does your conscience tell you that your response correctly answered DeSepiero's simple and clearly expressed question?

The keywords in his question were "DIRECTLY" and "God",
anything less or short or not using those words alone, are not allowed
DiarisGod ooo.

adetayo234:
What's this one saying now?
So if whoever you call puncture hole,
[s]I will not get my daily bread again? Nonsense. You better goan find something meaningful to do with your life instead of proving to be a superman over emptiness[/s]

DeSepiero raised the question, so I was saying I will leave it to him to puncture holes in the alternative answers you put forward to his clearly expressed question

DeSepiero:
John 10:33 doesn't quote Jesus claiming to be God. It quotes the Jews accusing Jesus of claiming to be God.

I had already mentioned that there is no NT reference of Jesus claiming to be God,
then later added that, the closest will be John 10:33 because there in John 10:33, though we don't hear or read Jesus directly claiming to be God, He was accused of claiming to be God.

We never read Jesus denying the Jews' accusation(s) that He claims(ed) to be God.
Can bet my bottom dollar you know why too, Jesus never refuted, disputed or deny He claimed to be God.
Jesus didn't refute, dispute, deny or argue because He is God

DeSepiero:
Which occasion?

They replied,
"We're stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy!
You, a mere man, claim to be God
- John 10:33

The occasion, is in John 10:33 above, that is when and where the Jews, said they wanted to kill Jesus, obviously because according to their understanding, He claimed to be God

PastorAIO:
I knew this was what you were going to come with. Please tell us then. What is the line of successions of Persian Kings? Since you are so knowledgeable.

Who was the King that conquered Babylon? And where did any King Darius fit into this?

Daniel remained in the royal service until the first year of the reign of King Cyrus
- Daniel 1:26

You didn't know diddly-squat what I was going to come up with.

Whose else, if not Cyrus.
Bet you want to say, you don't know that, Cyrus is Darius. Bet you want to say, you don't know that Darius is a title

PastorAIO:
Without you presenting an argument to support any of this then there is nothing for me to respond to

So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian
- Daniel 6:28

Typical isn't it, not one to shy from trying to take advantage of the "Get out of jail" free card
You just can't win some, you provide bible references and they moan that they don't believe in the bible. Then you stop being forward with Bible references and they throw a strop that you dont back up remarks with Bible references

PastorAIO:
I unlike some people I know I am well aware of the limits of my knowledge and I try to conduct myself accordingly. Yoruba teaches us that:
Ologbon kan ko le ta koko omi l'eti aso
Moran moran kan o le mo oye eepe ile.
No one is wise enough to know how to tie a knot of water on the fringe of their cloth
No one knows enough to know the number of grains of sand on the earth

You will leave long to have other opportunites to share another

PastorAIO:
So I try to practice continence when I speak. Furthermore I believe that is is a mark of the spirit agency that guide a person. The person that talks arrogantly and boasts and cajoles does so actually because it is a spirit of arrogance that inspires his speech

Arrogance, boasting and cajoling tut tut tut. Three evils you want nothing to do with

PastorAIO:
I haven't touched you sir. But I'm willing to bet that if you stop slapping your face with your palm your hurt will stop. meanwhile, Pele.

It's alright, thanks
It was a low belt punch, when you confidently alleged it isn't in the Bible that Daniel served King Cyrus.
Well you’ve now seen Daniel 6:28 above.
There is also Daniel 10:1 that is another bible reference to the fact.

PastorAIO:
I stress the point that a Magi is not necessarily a zoroastrian priest because I am aware of attempts by many to try to hinge christianity unto zoroastrianism to gain legitimacy. You have tried to pull the same move yourself. Precisely here:
https://www.nairaland.com/3753404/hebrew-monotheistic-belief-product-religious/1#56168676

You said this:
The irony is that Magi must be privy to some sacred truth & knowledge for them to have journeyed and come to Bethlehem to worship God
in response to this:
Judaism is a derivation of Avesta mixed in with the Hebrew religion that they had before the exile to Babylon

As it's usually said, between Yoruba elders, "e ku aigbagbe"
To try to hinge christianity unto zoroastrianism to gain legitimacy wasn't even within my sight nor in my radar
You've heard me post numerous times that I am not into the Christianity or Hindusm, Islam or Pentecostalism/Penterascalism etcetera jazz

Recall, it is the Magi coming to find Jesus and to worship Him that prompted my
"The irony is that Magi must be privy to some sacred truth & knowledge for them to have journeyed and come to Bethlehem to worship God" remark

You should have asked where and who is the source of the supposedly sacred truth and knowledge from.

PastorAIO:
Of course it is only a testament to the high regard that the priests of Avestan religion had all over the world that the word for 'wise man' in many languages became Magi

I had already remarked that there isn't anything wrong in "borrowing" or "importing"

PastorAIO:
How is this relevant to anything that is being discussed?

Just answer the question, answer the question to see the relevance.
So repeating, again what and/or who, is Zoroastrianism named after sef?

PastorAIO:
I know it? What I know will follow in my next post.

What followed in your next post was totally off target.

The Yoruba have a saying that goes like thus:
"ibi pelebe lanti mu ole je"
loosely means:
"you take your spoonful from the nearest place of the food plate "
In the spirit of that saying, we don't have to go to the last 2 chapters of Daniel (i.e. chapters 11 and 12) when closer home, in Daniel chapter 9, is the fulfilled Messianic prophecy, that can't be denied

Amberon11:
I already quoted John 10:30

Repeating forget and put aside what God the Father said please.

This is because what DeSepiero asked, is, where in the NT, did Jesus Himself and no other, DIRECTLY called Himself God?

The keywords needed to be seen are God and directly.
Anything short of using them two, is not permissable

Amberon11:
John 10 : 30 "I and my Father are one".

Everyone knows the father is God.

Also God the father refers to Jesus as God in Hebrew 1: 8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne , O God , is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

Forget and put aside what God the Father said please because what DeSepiero asked, is, where in the NT, did Jesus Himself and no other, DIRECTLY called Himself God?

walls01:
please where in the old testament that Jesus was directly or indirectly meant as God?

Why are you double posting now?
Why double post after you've already gotten a response?

MuttleyLaff:
If you had read DeSepiero's question carefully and properly, you would have noticed that he states he is aware that Jesus is directly called God in the OT but was asking where in the NT does Jesus Himself DIRECTLY called Himself God

What DeSepiero asked is a direct statement
and not the given dots for them to draw the lines to get the picture of the God, Whom He is

Do you and adetayo234, think that DeSepiero isn't aware of all those hints Jesus gave and the demonstration of the power of God that all indirectly shows and say He is God?

No where in the NT does Jesus clearly, strongly, fully and forcefully say He is God.

He gave hints that He is God. His works showed He is God, but He never DIRECTLY in the NT Himself say He is God.

adetayo234, read the above as the response concerns you too.
After that, please tell, is John 14:8-9, a direct statement in the NT of Jesus saying that He is God?

Then answer this question too:
Is it impossible for God, to concurrently and simultaneously exist or be in more than one place?

walls01:
why in John 20:17 Jesus referred to God as his God? and most times say the father sent me or say he is son of God?

What is the meaning of the nouns; God and god?
Give, without holding back, all the examples about the nouns; God and god

All those references, you mentioned, in their own rights are all true, that is why

You ignored responding to:
Is it impossible for God, to concurrently and simultaneously exist or be in more than one place?

walls01:
please I need the verse Jesus is the same as God in the old testament

Do you know what Emmanuel means?
- You'll get your answer from its meaning

PastorAIO:
Is your second template a 'flesh' as well?

Affirmative, it is flesh as well

PastorAIO:
If it is then is it distinguishable from the flesh that is distinguished from spirit in Galatians

Yes the other is uncorrupted, uncompromised and without blemish

PastorAIO:
You are confusing the terms Flesh and Spirit.

Quite the contrary.
I am not confusing the terms
but it's you misunderstanding and thinking I am mixing them up

PastorAIO:
You say the second template is a 'life giving' Spirit, Jesus said:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit

Yes I said so, and that is John 3:6 you are referring to, which I am pleased to say I am familiar with.

Remember this is what I wrote:
The first template is a living soul that became reduced in quality after losing life
(i.e. it became this way by losing faith in God's word and wilfully ignor‌ing it)
whereas the second template is a life-giving spirit
(i.e. it gives not only life but also deliverance from sin and its consequences)

The first template, which we've all inherited from, is a living soul, that gives death, whereas the second template is a life-giving spirit.

¹¹He (i.e. God) came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
¹²Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
¹³children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
^14aThe Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
- John 1:11-14a

The second template is God, Who is Spirit, embodied in human flesh and you become born again from above by God the Son
Before you run with my last remark from the above sentence, please, think first over whether it's impossible for God, to simultaneously and concurrently be in heaven and earth.

You also need to ask yourself the question about what's the context behind John 3:6.
Ask yourself what question did Nicodemus ask that prompted Jesus to give him that response

PastorAIO:
Your second template is a flesh and a spirit it seems. Who is right ? You or Jesus?

Though you won't answer questions relating to templates, you no doubt know what a template is. You No doubt know why and when templates are used. This is why you shuffle feet and ignore answering questions about them

Who is right? I or Jesus?
Well we are both right
What are you made up from?
Aren't you a spirit and soul housed in a flesh body?

adetayo234:
"If you have seen me, you have seen the father." What does that mean to you? It means I am the father.

You can even see in the next statement how he sounded worried/ concerned /disturbed about Philip's question when he said "why again will you say I should show you the father? "

What's the matter with you?
I'll tell you what, I'll soon leave you to DeSepiero to puncture holes, if you continue in this your headstrong stance.

Can't you see that DeSepiero expressed in a way, that makes it completely clear, what he meant with his question?

He asked where Jesus in the NT, directly called Himself God.
Directly and God are the key words, not whether He mentioned, if you see me, you've seen the Father etcetera

That John 14:9 you're latching on to, means, circumlocution at its best to me.

walls01:
if you continue reading he said he is the son of God, but the Jews wanting him to sound blasphemous said he said he his God.
I ask you where did he say he his God? he severally said God his his father and in john 20:17 he referred to God has his God

If you had read DeSepiero's question carefully and properly, you would have noticed that he states he is aware that Jesus is directly called God in the OT but was asking where in the NT does Jesus Himself DIRECTLY called Himself God

What DeSepiero asked is a direct statement
and not the given dots for them to draw the lines to get the picture of the God, Whom He is

Do you and adetayo234, think that DeSepiero isn't aware of all those hints Jesus gave and the demonstration of the power of God that all indirectly shows and say He is God?

No where in the NT does Jesus clearly, strongly, fully and forcefully say He is God.

He gave hints that He is God. His works showed He is God, but He never DIRECTLY in the NT Himself say He is God.

adetayo234:
[s]This statement shows you are deficient of scriptural knowledge. And when it comes to condemning Catholics, people like you with limited scriptural knowledge will open your mouth to spew utter ignorance on what you know little or nothing about[/s]

[s]Since you've been attending your Pentecostal church hasn't your pastor ever[/s] read John 14:8-9 in your hearing before?

Read the above as the response concerns you too.
After that, please tell, is John 14:8-9, a direct statement in the NT of Jesus saying that He is God?

Then answer this question too:
Is it impossible for God, to concurrently and simultaneously exist or be in more than one place?

Zizaboni:
1. Which one is the greatest between gift of the Spirit and fruit of the Spirit? Which one is the greatest?

There is no hierarchy in the gift of the Spirit (i.e. there is no the smallest or greatest) because they are given for the common good.

As for the fruit of the Spirit, what out lasts all is love, so love is the greatest of the fruit of the Spirit
Love is rendered 7 ways in Greek, the love which is the greatest mentioned in Galatians 5:22 is the Agape love; love that's is given unconditionally

Zizaboni:
2. Is it proper to go to church and you are told to lead prayer and when you started, you spoke in tongue from the beginning to the end. As in is it good to lead a church prayer only in tongues

It isn't good at all, the reason is because you or no one else interpreting those present would not know when at each prayer points to agree with you in saying amen.

Also why would you have the need to pray in a language and make matters worse, without interpretations, when others present don't understand diddly squat what's being said?

Zizaboni:
3. What's the difference between wisdom, knowledge and prophecy. 1cor 12 vs 4 - 11.

God bless you

Wisdom has to do with decision(s).
When a right or good decision is made, you've applied wisdom and deemed wise.
If the outcome or conclusion of a matter, ends up with a wrong or bad decision being made, then folly is said to have been applied and the person doing such is deemed foolish or called a fool.

Knowledge is information.
This can be acquired mentally or be known experientially

Prophecy is fore-knowledge, as in knowledge or information known before hand.
It's an advance knowledge of eventq

walls01:
continue reading to 41

You asked me to read in John 20:17.
I read it, only to find it had no relevance to any points on the table

Now after I first referred you to John 10:33, you shifted and abandoned your goal post and then again start asking me to read John 10:33-47. To what ends I don't know

DeSepiero asked where in the NT Jesus directly said He was God and John 10:33 is the closest

walls01:
are you kidding me? please read John 10:33-41.

What's to kid you or anyone else for that matter, in all have so far, on this thread posted?

They replied,
"We're stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy!
You, a mere man, claim to be God.
- John 10:33

Does John 10:33 above, not say, the Jews wanted to kill Jesus because He "indirectly" claimed to be God?

judgedredd22:
The parable was used to illustrate heaven and hell! In a nutshell, be prepared and not found wanting where righteousness as a christian is concerned!

The Op that posted this rubbish is among the stupidest people on this planet right now!

Bloggers will write anything, if just to drive traffic to sites

walls01:
you misunderstood the Bible

What part of the bible have I misunderstood?

walls01:
read John 20:17

What is to read in John 20:17?
Why instead, don't you read John 10:33?

Ishilove:
I believe Jesus meant something else here, OP, not aso ebi per se.

Wedding apparel is significantly different from those of other occasions so when the man in the parable entered the wedding avenue, he was dressed inappropriately, vis clothes unsuitable for a wedding. He stood out negatively, and of course this prompted the king to have him tossed out by the scruff of his neck.

You're absolutely right that the parable was about something else.

The crux of the story is about the garment or clothe of righteousness.

Any found appearing at the wedding of the Groom with His bride; the church, without wearing an appropriate wedding garment will be hand tied and thrown out

An2elect2:
Maybe you have a problem with the name "Christian"
The thread is about the common meaning of what a Christian is not historical lessons on where the word originated from.
So you get let the thread be just as everyone understands

Just because it's common, don't mean it is right.

Bottom line, is God never calls anyone a Christian, Jesus never called anyone a Christian, the disciples never themselves Christians, Peter never called anyone a Christian, Paul never called anyone a Christian.

You will be asked:
Who do people think you are?
Who do you think you are?

naijahut:
shut up small god and big God are not the same.

Without hold back, why don't you, extensively, define the nouns; god and God
Without leaving any stone unturned, gives all examples, to the best of your understanding what god is and what God is.

An2elect2:
Yes I'm a Christian. Why?

Thanks for your prompt response
but I don't think you really are
because that's not what God calls you, it's what the world calls you or says who you are.
Here is the why(s):
Are you a nigger?
Do you address yourself as a nigger?
Do you answer back when being called a nigger?
Have you now begun to catch the drift?

DeSepiero:
I'm wondering, 'is there any verse of the new testament which quotes Jesus directly referring to himself as God?'

There is no biblical NT record of Jesus directly referring to Himself as God, but there are abundant biblical NT records where Jesus indirectly referred to Himself as God.
At one occasion in the New Testament, some present Jews understood Him referring Himself to God and wanted to kill for that, by stoning Him.

An2elect2:
In my experience I've found there a lot of reasons why many "Christians" are not really Christians and many than I imagine have wrestled with their consciences over this. While few have been able to own up, many have found the smooth way out...LIVE IN DELUSIONS.

So here is why you need to know why you are genuine or just an empty professor. Why? Do you believe the Bible is of God? Sure you do! so how do you think you can pretend it doesn't really matter what it says and still be accepted by God when keeping the Word is loving God, being Christian?

Not to waste time, here are very strong reasons why you are most likely not a Christian and why you need to seek God in truth

An2elect2, are you a christian?
Do you address yourself as a christian?
Do you answer back when being called a christian?

Finfadei:
God is holy and everything around HIM.
HE is the creator of the universe and the heavens.

Yes and bear in mind that He created things to have potentials.

Potential, in the sense that, all God created, each have an ability or capacity to develop into something in the future (i.e. come in to being something expected)

Truthfully speaking, that potential, is an inherent ability or capacity for growth, development, or coming into being,
which when the necessary conditions exists or prevails will lead to future good success and/or positive usefulness

God has a certain goal, mark or level, to attain, for each or everything He created.

Finfadei:
But my question is; where did sin pop out from

There isn't a definitive answer to the question: Where did sin popped out from?
Besides, that, there actually are 6 different Hebrew nouns and 2 Hebrew verbs, with different meanings or connotations, for the English word, sin

Sin, originally and coming from the Hebrew verb, "chata" perspective, means, missed the mark, or missed the target, or went wrong, or went bad, missed the goal or reached potential not

Finfadei:
was devil destined to sin?

No, I don't think the devil was destined to sin.

My reason, for not thinking that the devil was destined to sin, is because the devil was never and not created by God, to sin

The devil, just as Adam and Eve were, was destined and created for great things but missed the mark, missed the target, went bad, went wrong, missed the goal and consequently failed to reach an expected end.

Finfadei:
This has been a very heated argument between me and a religious Friend for days now.

What about was the heated argument(s) between you and your religious friend over?