₦airaland Forum

hoopernikao:
You are speaking for him. Let him speak for himself. His earlier posts aren't disappearing here, at least not soon.


It's also obvious you missed the key element in a man's salvation. Salvation is not God's choice. He doesn't chose who to be saved. It is God's work alone but the decision to receive what he did for you is solely yours.

Christ died for all men. Either thief, pharisee, saducees, nairalander or scammer. He died for all.


So the key element you missed is, how then was the thief on the cross accepted and the pharisee were not. The answers were there for you to read if you chose to read with open mind.


How is a man saved, redeemed and accepted of God. It's clear in the bible

Romans 10
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


So, a man is saved by his faith in Christ, his gospel.


What you saw in the thief was an act of faith in the person of Jesus, listen to him again

Luke 23:42
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

He believed there is a kingdom, and he believed Jesus's own it. He believed only Jesus can get him into it. That is the act, the faith, the repentance, the reaching out, the calling on the name, the believing with the heart. That is how the thief got saved. Not a forced actions or actions driven by sharing money on the street or philanthropist. It's a believing.

It wasn't a random salvation. He acted on the word, he acted by his believe. That is, when a man believe the gospel, he receives God's salvation.


So, can we say this in the case of the Pharisee?

Well it depends on the Pharisee you refer to. Nicodemus was one, Joseph of Arimathea too. And they followed Jesus.

So, why were many Pharisee rejected? Is it God that determine their rejection? Or they rejected the mercy, salvation and preaching of the kingdom.

As a Bible student, I am sure you know the answer now.


So, does God chooses randomly? No

Is the scripture clear on who is saved and who is of the lord? Yes.


Hence, it is a strange gospel to treat the scriptures as portraying God as inconsistent and confuse being, who only act on momentary emotions.

Lastly, take note, just a little attention to verses and reading them together with surrounding text will surely deliver us from this error of misinterpretation.

This is why the Bible is an interesting book.
While you have correctly quoted scriptures that say that Salavation s man's choice, I will also quote scriptures that say that Salvatoon is God's choice.

Romans 8:30
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Phillipians 2:12-13
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

I hope you see here that it is not your choice or will but God's will.

MaxInDHouse:
Naaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Our preaching and teaching program (evangelism) was ongoing throughout. It's only face to face contact that our organization stopped globally. So we are still preaching and teaching until the end! Matthew 24:14

What is the use of the so called GIFT of prophecy nah!

I don't understand what you mean by evangelism if it is not face to face.
Cos Jesus and His disciples could have sent letters to the neighbouring cities but they rather went on a face to face evangelism even when they faced persecution, sicknesses and attacks.

But then they had the gifts of the Spirit and power of God to guide them. You clearly do not believe in the gifts of the spirit so your plight is understood. So for your family's sake you can keep hiding in the face of diseases.

Fvckyouall:
Am not sure you need fear and trembling. You just need understanding and hop for the best, No single person knows who God would chose

Well understanding is key but at the end of the day no one knows what he doesn't count as sin and yet God counts it as sin.

King Saul simply chose to spare some lives and because of that he was rejected by God.

David simply chose to count his army and God counted it as sin.

Ananais and Saphira simply chose to withhold some of their own property and donated some and because of that they were struck down by the Holyspirit

hoopernikao:
Bro, why speaking for me? You are the judge and the jury. Lol. It's an offence doing this.


I still awaits the response of Fvckyouall. Since he has described to me the unblemished and perfect loving man Jesus is coming for. I need him to convince me he (Fvckyouall) is one of those perfect being that the Messiah is so eager to meet.

From my following 8f your exchange together, he never said God only chooses the unblemished. His affirmation rests on the verses where the Bible said even unbelievers like the crucified thief were chosen to make heaven while the self-righteous Pharisees were rejected.

MaxInDHouse:
Thousands are still getting baptized now as they are studying with us on line Sir, so Covid19 only stopped face to face contact but not our ongoing global preaching and teaching program.
Thousands are still flocking into God's Organization! Matthew 28:19-20

So of what use is the gift of prophesy now to your folks who are claiming they have it?

Clearly you never passed comprehension in school.
I asked if you did any evangelism during the lockdown and you're showing pics from when the lock down was obviously relaxed.

There's no lock down anymore.

MaxInDHouse:
Where did this gift travel to when Corona virus was coming?

Same question I was asking you about your gift of evangelism. Where did your evangelism travel during the Covid Lockdown?

MaxInDHouse:
Let me answer my two questions before leaving the thread!
Most so called Christians today thought first century Christians were like angels from another planet brought here to start a movement but that's not true, it was common people like you and i that congregated as the first Church!


According to God's law Israelites are to LOVE their God and their neighbours {Leviticus 19:18} Jesus later emphasized on this reminding them the importance of those two laws! Matthew 22:37-40

But this is just the general law given to all Israelites as a nation, so Jesus introduced a new kind of LOVE in fact he called it a new commandment {John 13:34} since Jesus' followers will differ from Judaists this kind of LOVE will exist only amongst the Christians so no matter the nationality of a person once he becomes one of Jesus' disciples he must be LOVED the same way Jesus loved his followers! John 13:35

This kind of LOVE is stronger since a Christians must be willing to surrender his/her life for fellow believers if the need be, this will remind all people of the man who surrendered his life for his friends! John 15:13



There is no MANNER of any kind that distinguished Christians back then from other people, a thief and traitor like Judas Iscariot was one of Jesus' Apostles, a sceptical person like Thomas was also an Apostle of Jesus, fraudsters like Ananiah and Saphirras, adulterers like the Corinthian brother, fearful and stubborn ones like Peter, run away slave like onesimus and all kinds of people came to join them! 1Corinthians 6:11
The only difference is how they often organize themselves to go out preaching and teaching in their neighbourhood just as Jesus and his disciples used to do before his death.
That's how people back then could recognize them as followers of the Jewish carpenter who claimed he is the Christ! Act 11:26

Goodbye!

You're just an incorrigible attention lover.
After threatening, vowing and promising to leave my threads, here you are still jumping on every thread.

Well, no where in the Bible does it say Christians are identified by evangelism. Cos even Jesus and his disciples often settled down in different places and not going to preach. Waiting until they were led to move to another place.

The people of Antioch where the word Christian was first mentioned were so named because of their way of life.
Even Paul and other apostles referred to themselves as people of the way. Neaming there was a way and manner of lifestyle that they were identifiable by.

Clearly evangelism wasn't it. Cos evangelism is simply one of the 5 fold ministries. You might as well claim Christians are identified because of their gift of Prophecies or Teaching or Pastoring or Apostleship.

Clearly you only speak of evangelism because you believe your JW organisation takes evangelism most seriously among the 5 fold ministry. This is only because your organisation lacks the gift of Prophecy.

Your argument can be contested by Pentecostal churches who claim to have the gift of Prophecy saying that only prophetic Christians are Christians as some do.

shadeyinka:
I think you should know that there is a difference between a TITLE and a NAME!

OBA (king) is a title while Lamidi Adeyemi is a name
PRESIDENT is a title while Muhammadu Buhari or Joe Biden are names

God, Eloha, Allah, Olorun etc is the TITLE for the CREATOR: but His name is YHWH!

As one one claims that the God of Moses, Zachariah, Mary etc is ALSO your own God, what name other than his TITLE or ATTRIBUTE is He Called?

I am sure you know that the Creator has thousands of TITLES

Good point. So hace you ever prayed to Allah since it means God?
Clearly you do not pray to YHWH but to God. So why can't you pray to Allah?

Or because the word is mostly attributed to Muslims you can't?

mhmsadyq:
I I think you just want to disagree by all mean. But no wahala!

The President of Nigeria is the title of Buhari.
Buhari is the name of the President of Nigeria
Both statements address one person; Buhari.

YHWH is the name of God.
God is the title of YHWH.

I can as well say YHWH and all other names use to address God are TITLES. HIS name is ALLAH SWT!
Source? The Glorious Qur'an.

But Allah also addresses himself with several other names and you can call him by any of those names.

[17:110] Al-’Isrā-الْإِسْرَاء/بَنِيْ إِسْرَآءِيْل
"قُلِ ادۡعُوا اللّٰہَ اَوِ ادۡعُوا الرَّحۡمٰنَ ؕ اَیًّامَّا تَدۡعُوۡا فَلَہُ الۡاَسۡمَآءُ الۡحُسۡنٰی ۚ وَ لَا تَجۡہَرۡ بِصَلَاتِکَ وَ لَا تُخَافِتۡ بِہَا وَ ابۡتَغِ بَیۡنَ ذٰلِکَ سَبِیۡلًا ﴿۱۱۰﴾

Say: ‘Call on Allah or call on al-Rahman (the Most Compassionate), by whatever Name you invoke Him, (all) the Best Names are His...

Good point. So hace you ever prayed to Allah since it means God?
Clearly you do not pray to YHWH but to God. So why can't you pray to Allah?

Or because the word is mostly attributed to Muslims you can't?

hoopernikao:
Did you actually read and see all these from the Bible? I mean the Christian Bible? Bro, you are mixing a lot together.

Well, the God that the Bible show to us is a God that has a stable, consistent character and actions, not the one you presented above with a random, unstable attitude. He can be predicted because His words are His bounds.

I am not sure you are seeing this same God from the scriptures. If we cant know God (actions, desires, expectations) from His word, then we are of all men most miserable.

Also the Jesus you presented, looks more like a Philanthropist than a Savior of the World

I believe further and careful study will help.

Can you say God is consistent in the Bible though?

Apparently God's ways in the OT especially concerning judgment and mode of worshipping him changed in the NT. God in OT was more judgmental. While in NT God is loving and merciful being not quick in judgment so that everyone should repent.

In fact in the NT, God sent Paul to the Gentiles (Uncircumcised) with a different gospel and sent the other Apostles to the Jews (circumcised) with another gospel. Did you not notice that?

While Paul preached Faith absent works is salvation.
The other apostles preach Faith with works is dead.

From the aforementioned will you say God is consistent?

hoopernikao:
Sure it is. I am asking this based on your response. So, i want to know where you belong in the categories you explained.

You have pointed to me those who cant see/meet or choose by Jesus. And also pointed to the reasons they wont be choose.

I will appreciate your answer. So, i ask again.

Will you be chosen when Jesus comes based on all the requirements you have listed earlier?

Interesting question. But even you are not sure you'll be chosen. Which is why the Bible says work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

AkinwaleJJ:
Please i beg you, erase my username i'm not interested!
If you're irritated by comments from my christian brothers nothing can make me stay here we all belong to the same organization and our thinking is the same!

Done.
It was almost a pleasure having you here.

MaxInDHouse:
Thanks my friend, ire ákárí!
So what do you have to say on topic?

Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

JWs globally (represented by MaxInDHouse) say "NO"

OP Mr Myer say "YES"

So please leave my matter aside as it's causing a distraction, what's your own PERSONAL opinion on the topic?

If NO or YES substantiate with the scriptures or anything you feel like using to buttress your point thanks!

l
You said you won't comment on the thread yet you can't honor your own word.
No wonder you can't honor God's words but keep twisting them.

MaxInDHouse:
Apologies on her behalf Sir, we've resolved the issue, henceforth she will never comment on your thread again nor share anything with you.
Please don't be offended by her harsh confrontation, God bless you!

You mean you have commanded her not to comment.lol
Anyway she will be missed but certainly not you.
Your false humility only works on those who don't know you. Good riddance.

shadeyinka:
1. No contradiction that:

1. Allah is the name of the chief idol in the Kaaba!
Is the same as
2. Allah is the the name of the supreme being!
claimed by Muslims

2. No contradiction that:

It is logically possible that Abdullah's Allah (an idol made of wood/stone) was upgraded by Mohammed to be like the Jehovah of the Jews (who is without an image)?

Okay!

Abraham likewise came from a background of idolatry and polytheism before the Bible said he was called to worship the monotheistic God.
How come you do not attribute the same analysis to God that maybe Abraham simply upgraded one of the idols of his father and name him God who was later name Jehovah?

Assumptions borne out of dislike of other religions are just products of religious intolerance.

There is no proof that Judaism., Christianity and Islam serve different God. Except the opinions shared by religious bigots.

shadeyinka:
Can you see how the intrigues Has to be built up upon assumptions and insinuations so as to explain àway the clearly written Word of God so as to fit within your organisations position.

What did God Himself say (in contrast with your organizational position)?

Exo 6:3:
"And I (God Himself speaking) appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."

Maximus, note what GOD HIMSELF said (short and straight to the point!)

Contrast with your organisations position

Long and complex: explaining away what YHWH Himself has said.

Aren't you to be pitied!?
Haven't you replaced the authority of Jehovah with that of your Organisation (the voice of sinful humans)?

He's been so brainwashed by the JW organisation that he only sees what he has been taught in their schools and articles.

I always wonder how he always quotes scriptures completely out of context. And still defend it when the Bible is saying absolutely something else.

In Luke 10:26 Jesus makes a very important distinction that is still creating a lot of confusion in Christianity today;
He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”

Until your reading of the Bible is at oneness with what is written in the Bible, you cannot interprete the Bible rightly.

This is the summary of the problem called Maximus.

AkinwaleJJ:
Going through your profile i found this
Corona virus humbles Christians and Muslims
Contradictions and inconsistencies in the Bible
Thanks i don't need much discussion with you no more.

Did you go out for evangelism during the Covid?
Did you receive any revelation concerning 2020 being ravaged by Covid?
Were churches and mosques not locked up during Covid?

Isn't it interesting how Christianity is about the way of Truth, yet most Christians hate to be told the truth.

haekymbahd:
Since Genesis is attributed as one of the books of Moses and it is claimed that God reveal himself to moses has "the Lord" but not to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Co..

Is there a possibility that the author of Genesis inserted the word "the Lord" in the book of Genesis based on the fact that was the name revealed to Moses and the book was written after Moses and not during Adam or Abraham's era...

The word Lord has always been used to identify God even since the story of creation.

That the English Bible replaced the word YHWH with LORD is actually an inaccurate translation. (Google and study more on the word YHWH). Even the Jews do not mention it loosely out of reverence.

The revelation of the name YHWH to Moses is a unique revelation that is different from the Lord that had been used to describe God even before the revelation to Moses.

Lord means Master while YHWH by biblical explanation means I Am That I Am. Exodus 3:14

AkinwaleJJ:
I thought you're a lady, so this is how you treat people who speaks from the heart in response to your quest!

Thank you very much sr!

I didn't invite him to this discussion cos he is very self-righteous and condescending in his approach.

I invited you even though I knew you're JW because you are mature in your responses to discussions.

My apologies to you cos hsu your man but thats just the truth.

AkinwaleJJ:
I thought you're a lady, so this is how you treat people who speaks from the heart in response to your quest!

Thank you very much sr!

Only to people who speak in a condescending manner to others, especially when they are too proud to learn.

MaxInDHouse:
I'm sorry if my presence is not welcome please pardon my manners henceforth i'll never ever comment on your thread.
Meanwhile the Bible says people have been calling on JEHOVAH'S name before Abraham was born! Genesis 4:26
Goodbye!

Genesis 4:26
And as for Seth, vto him also a son was born; and he named him 5Enosh. Then men began wto call on the name of the Lord.

Why do you quote scriptures disporportiinaely and irrelavantly?
How does the above scripture prove that the name of the Lord Sets called upon was Jehovah?

Like I've always advised you, try studying the Bible by yourself and not just vomiting what is on your JW sites and articles.

God revealed himself at various stages in the Bible in different names according to his dealing with the person or people. To Abraham he revealed himself as God Almighty. To Moses he revealed himself as YHWH (Jehovah), yet some believe to Christians he reveals himself as Jesus Christ hence the doctrine of trinity. Also the book of revelations says he yet reveals himself to those who conquer.

So when it says in Gensis 4:26 that Seth called on the name of the Lord, it was clearly not Jehovah as God himself said he had not revealed that name to their fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

If you can't indulge in intellectual engagement without being offended by all means please feel free to evacuate the building. But if you have something meaningful to contribute on this discussion, you're very welcome.

Nuttella:
It is believe after so many researches that the Allah is also called Baal.
The ones that some kings of Israel worshipped along with Ashtheroth. Both of them are fallen angels in the second heaven.

Your opinion.
If the name Baal was never mentioned in the Quran as being the same God as Allah then how can you ascribe such?

Jesus cursed those who ascribed his power to Belzebub. So unless Quran says Allah is Baal or you have proof to back up your claim, you shouldn't go casting spersions on other people's God just to prove yours is the true God.

haekymbahd:
Every religion believes this from Jews, trinitatians, Unitarian Christians, Muslims, e.t.c

Everyone thinks theirs is the real one and others are product of falling angels, Jinns .. So your perspective sha and not general

U think a particular God is a demon or falling angel while yours is also believed by others to be the demon...

You understand. That's how religion works. Every religion preaches it is the only right religion while others are idol or demon worshippers.

shadeyinka:
You see why we always take opposing sides
One person is ALWAYS going by their organizations position (even if it conflicts with plain scripture)

The other is always going by the plain scripture EVEN if it conflicts with his organisations position.

Shalom!

He seems to be blind to the fact that he doesn't worship God but worships his organisation.

MaxInDHouse:
@ Shadeyinka.

This is the explanation for Exodus 6:3!

Stop this please, it's insulting to people who actually study and understand the Bible.

God himself said, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob didn't know him as Jehovah yet you're trying to use permutations and combinations to prove God's word wrong just because your denomination worships the name Jehovah.

Even Jesus never for once called God Jehovah. He even declared that no one (not even Moses, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) has ever seen the Father except him. Meaning only what he calls God is valid. And he calls God Father not Jehovah.

But maybe you're followers of Moses and not Jesus Christ just like the Jews.

haekymbahd:
What name did Abraham call God and prophets before Moses e.g Noah because the name Jehovah was revealed exclusively to Moses...


Since the jews, Christian, Muslim claim to worship the God of Abraham so can you tell us the name Abraham called God?

Very good question!
The name YHWH was only revealed to Moses and wasn't even mentioned in the new testament. Jesus simply referred to God as Father.

MaxInDHouse:
You didn't get my point!
We are not talking about manners that's preached in virtually all religions, if that is what you are looking for then you can't differentiate Christians from other religions.
Just take a deep breath and think 'it was in the city of Antioch where Jesus' disciples were first addressed as CHRISTIANS {Act 11:26} please ask yourself ©was it that people living in Antioch weren't hospitable, humble and generous that made the Christians to stand out so that they were given that tag? Are we saying there are no such virtuous people around that makes Jesus' followers unique? The answer is "NO!" Jesus' disciples are known with the duty their Master assigned to them, they must go from house to house in their neighbourhood to PREACH and TEACH just as their leader who claims to be the Christ always do during his lifetime! Matthew 28:19-20; Act 1:8

Whether a member is fast catching up with the laid down principles their leader taught them or not each Christians knew quite well that what keeps him constantly in Jesus' sight spiritually speaking is the duty assigned to the group, note Jesus' concluding words found @ Matthew 28:20 after telling them what they must continue doing he said "I am with you always until the end of the world"

So no matter how chaste anyone may prove to be the only means of becoming a child of Jesus' God is taking up the responsibility to go out for the preaching and teaching work Jesus assigned to his disciples. One may ask "but what about other nice and kind people in other religions who aren't doing this? Will God destroy them simply because they're not going out to preach? What about many among Jesus' followers who aren't virtuous? Will God just spare them simply because they're following Jesus' group to preach?"

If you want to know the answers to all these questions just ask and i will oblige! Matthew 7:7-8

May you have PEACE!

You mean evangelism is what differentiates a Christian from others? Jesus did not say it is by evangelism that people will identify his disciples. Rather he said by Loving one another will people know who are his disciples.

Evangelism is one of the many responsibilities of a Christian. But that is not why the people of Antioch called the followers of Christ Christians. Rather it was their manner of living.

MaxInDHouse:
The group name "Christians" was borrowed from the mouth of observers in Antioch {Act 11:26} what quantifies a person to be a Christian is the ability to humble oneself and be prepared to forgo whatever it may cost to become one of those practicing pure worship!

Where most people got it wrong is thinking a Christian must have the characters of Jesus, but that's a misconception a Christian only humbles himself for knowledge and his transformation is a gradual process, contrary to a none Christian who feels he's ok as long as he is better in behaviour than others around him.

A Christian may have dubious characters but one thing makes the difference he acknowledges that God wants him to improve and he's interested in the one and only form of teaching that can help in transforming him into whatever God approves! Luke 19:2-10

This is true of any one devoted to any religion. Not Christianity alone. Muslims, Jews, Traditionalists and even Chinese Monks.

I've met devout Muslims who are more pious than most pastors, whose humility and generosity and hospitality leaves one speechless.

Biblically, a Christian should manifest the life of Christ both in speech, conduct, spiritual gifts and fruit of the spirit. However we observe this is hardly so.

In fact some business owners don't even want to hire Christians because some Christians profess righteousness only to end up embezzling the company funds. Cos they believe all they have to do is ask for forgiveness in the name of Jesus.lol

hoopernikao:
I have actually answers this severally in my write up.

New Covenant as called by the Scriptures, is the covenant of God in Christ. And it simply means THE GIVING OF THE SPIRIT.

Note that calling it New is not about the time frame but because there exist old that was compromised (the covenant of God with Israel) by the recipient: Israel. Hence, the word Old and New is in relation to that.

Gal 3:14

14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Notice that the word there is MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISED SPIRIT not promise of the spirit.

Genesis 12:1-3

1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing. 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

This is the same thing promised to Abraham.
Notice verse 3.

In thee shall families of the earth be blessed

This is what Paul called Abraham blessing in Galatians 3:14 (the spirit).

Observe that when God gave Abraham this covenant he wasn't a Jew or Israelite. So that statement "in the shall the families of the earth be blessed" will refer to

1. Israel as the chosen executor of the covenant
2. All Gentile nations.

Hence everyone is captured under Abraham's blessing and covenant.

So, it's in Abraham that the whole world (Gentiles included now) is blessed and this is not talking about land or cars or houses. But the Spirit.

Hence, the covenant fulfilled in Christ is what God promised Abraham which is to happen through Israel, to be executed by Israel. Israel failed in this hence, that agreement of God with Israel has to be terminated. This is what you called Old.

That same covenant with Abraham now has a new mediator, executor, which is Jesus Christ.
This is why it's called the New Covenant. Because the Old was done away with.

So in reality, there is only one covenant in the Bible per say and that's the promise of God to Abraham, which is the promised spirit, the receiving of the spirit even unto Gentiles.

When the Bible use the word Old or New Covenant it is actually in relation to the executors which are Israel (Old because it failed and terminated), Jesus (New because there was a former, that was terminated).

Ezek 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

The promised spirit. Same.

Heb 8:7-9

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Observe that it affirms to you the reason for the New Covenant. It's because the first was faulty.


Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:


In Acts 2, Peter quoted the same on the day of Pentecost when the spirit was given.


Hence, firstly, if you see the promise in the covenant beyond the giving of the Spirit, you are going to have issues with understanding the covenant.

Secondly, if you see the covenant given to Israel as different from that given to Abraham or that we have in Christ now, then there is also an issue. The singular plan of God for humanity is the giving of the Spirit, the Spirit of God. That is why in all OT you will find the word, My Spirit, God's Spirit, Spirit of God has a promise to man. This refer to the same thing in NT that is now called Spirit of Christ, Spirit of the Son etc why? The Son fulfilled the promised Spirit for man.

---

Observe, you will see the this happened (the giving, supply of the spirit) in OT as temporary act.

Prophets of Old only gave God's utterance when the spirit descend on them, but temporal.

Numbers 11:16
16 The Lord answered Moses, “Bring Me 70 men from Israel known to you as elders and officers of the people. Take them to the tent of meeting and have them stand there with you. 17 Then I will come down and speak with you there. I will take some of the Spirit who is on you and put the Spirit on them They will help you bear the burden of the people, so that you do not have to bear it by yourself.

Observe that, a temporal act to remind Moses of God's covenant of the spirit.

Read on
24 Moses went out and told the people the words of the Lord. He brought 70 men from the elders of the people and had them stand around the tent. 25 Then the Lord descended in the cloud and spoke to him. [i]He took some of the Spirit that was on Moses and placed the Spirit on the 70 elders. As the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied, but they never did it again. [/i]

They receive the Spirit, they prophesied.


Now note what happened after

26 Two men had remained in the camp, one named Eldad and the other Medad; the Spirit rested on them—they were among those listed, but had not gone out to the tent—and they prophesied in the camp. 27 A young man ran and reported to Moses, “Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp.”

Two men not part of those outside.


[b]28[/b] Joshua son of Nun, assistant to Moses since his youth,[j] responded, “Moses, my lord, stop them!”


Please observe Moses response.

29 But Moses asked him, “Are you jealous on my account? If only all the Lord’s people were prophets and the Lord would place His Spirit on them! ” 30 Then Moses returned to the camp along with the elders of Israel.

Moses spoke the Lord's mind: that the mind of God is for all of his people receive the Spirit. This is the covenant and this is what is fulfilled in Christ. This is the mind and plan of God.

So, Old covenant is not referring to writing of the scriptures but Israel failure to work in God's agreement. That is what makes it Old. The writings of the scriptures is what shows us all that transpired within those period. So in it I will see the Old covenant events and also in it I will see Christ explained.

Notice that all of the Apostles teaching were from the writings you called Old.

John 5:39
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and [b]they are they which testify of me [/b]
Like o told you before, when ever you read the word SCRIPTURES from the Bible it simply means the OT writings, no NT writings then. Jesus said, his testimony are in the OT writings. So, can we find the New Covenant in OT writings? Yes but as a promises.


Jesus and his Apostle preached solely from the OT and they preached the following:

- Christ redemption from OT
- Christ death and resurrection from OT
- Spirit of Adoption from OT
- Gift of the Spirit from OT
-Philip preached Christ to the Ethiopian Eunuch from OT alone.
Etc.

Are this not new Covenant realities? Yet preached from OT.

Hence, does the OT still relevant to Christianity today? Yes. Absolutely. You can't even understand the scriptures without the understanding of OT.

Therefore, books in OT must be read as much as those in NT but all in the light of the New Covenant, the Spirit of Christ.

Our disagreement on this issue is not whether or not the new covenant was already prophesied ibefore Christ. That's obvious.
It is simply that you do not agree that there's a difference in the old covenant and the new.

First there are conditions that followed the old covenant viz;
-being a Jew
-becoming circumcised.
-only priests could enter the inner courts.
-the Laws of Moses and the sacrifices that follow.
-tithes,
-Judgment by the hands of elders.
-An eye for an eye, etc

In the new covenant after the promise was fulfilled, all these were scrapped.
-Everyone including Gentiles and Jews are God's people.
-No circumcision needed. Only circumcision of the heart (broken spirit).
-Everyone is a royal priesthood and there's no more physical holy of holies.
-Law of the Spirit only and Christ paid the ultimate sacrifice once and for all.
-Cheerful giving.
-Judgment is of God.
-Forgiveness, etc

Just to mention few.
So the old testament is a background to the new testament. A shadow of what now is in the new covenant. The difference is i.portant that here's how Jesus explained it to Nicodemus and used the great John the baptist of the old covenant to the least in this new covenant.

Matthew 11:11
Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

John 3:3-6
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is nborn oagain2 he cannot psee the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born qof water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 rThat which is born of the flesh is sflesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The differences are so much it makes one wonder if it is the same God of Old testament that is in New testament?

If you still don't see these differences, then we can only agree to disagree.

hoopernikao:
Good morning
You are contradicting yourself now.

Firstly, a covenant is not a tradition or culture. A covenant is an agreement. This can result into cultural modification, likewise a tradition can evolve from it. But note this word again. A COVENANT IS AN AGREEMENT. A covenant is not a process, it's a promise, and agreement which can them take process to fulfil or achieve.

You seems not to get the meaning of that word right.

Let me ask you this:

The covenant God had with Noah is it Old or New?

The covenant God had with Abraham is it Old or New?

Well you do have a point.

So what do the apostles mean by old covenant and new covenant in Jesus Christ?

Mikecold:
If you have an iota of comprehension you would see that the question isn't about the Torah (we all agree it's genuinely correct)

Christianity gifts it's foundation from Torah and have validation/historic proof from the Torah to back it up

Quran/Islam gifts it's foundation from the Torah but can't back it up.

I challenge the both of us to show the validation from the Torah on our respective religion, do you accept my challenge?

I'm not a Muslim though. But I know a couple of Muslims that will gladly accept your challenge.

If the Torah and Quran reject Jesus Christ as Son of God, talkless of being the God. Then it means Christianity is the questionable one.

Even the bible says at the mouth of 2 witnesses the truth is established. Islam and Torah witness the same Truth but Christianity is on its own.

Mikecold:
Abdul, you have a basket for a brain i am beyond your intellectual capacity.

Like you could see i have been having a very deep intellectual exchange with the atheist before you.

He is also far beyond your mental capacity, (why he surrendered is very obvious)

I won't be a part of this your tears shedding and questions evading when ever you put on the spot.

Quran is a pathetic excuse without content created to deflect theology not answer them

If you disparage the Quran then you must also do the same to the Jewish Torah.
Yet Christianity and Islam git their foundation from the Torah.