₦airaland Forum

VoodooDoll:
The ethnic nations in Nigeria traded, fought and co-ordinated with each other prior to the coming of the British, Portuguese etc

Ethnic groups traded right across West Africa with words and cultures borrowed etc

For example the word Jollof  in Jollof rice is actually from the Historical Kingdom of Wolof which was near Senegal / Gambia.  Jollof Rice originated from that region and through trade across historical empires was borrowed by ethnic groups now in Nigeria.

It is possible that migration of Igbos and other ethnic groups happened before the British but it is probable that Azikwe's parent's migration was due to the coming of the British.  That is his parents may have been the "middle class" employed by the British or who came as traders to the region.

I agree that trade must have playe a pivotal role in the migration of the Nigerian peoples But how come there is no documentation of trade between Igbo and the Yoruba and between Igbo and the North before colonialism? It was clear that Igbos were trading with their neighbours due to proximity and some similarities in language, especially the ibibios and annangs. We need to revisit these things and begin to document them before it is too late. That way, we can solve some of the problems besetting us currently. It looks like our parents lived more peaceably/peacefully amongst themselves than we are doing now.

many of them followed the railroad because of the job opportunities offered.

ie they settled in the north due to railroad jobs. However, it wasnt only igbos but the midwest through south south as well.


Quote

Going down memory lane, President Obasanjo recalled that "actual railway construction in Nigeria commenced in 1898 with a 32 km line of 1067mm gauge from Iddo (Lagos State) to Otta (Ogun State), which was further extended to Ibadan covering a total of 193 km in 1901. Railway construction continued incrementally in such manners between 1901-1910, Ibadan-Jebba (295 km); 1907-1911, Kano-Baro (562 km); 1909-1915, Jebba-Minna (252 km); 1914-1916, Port-Harcourt-Enugu (243 km); and 1922-1927, Kafanchan-Jos (179 km).


http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2006/08/nigeria_modern_rail_system_83b.html

Tpia:

From your post, railway lines in the East were built not before 1900. So it is still a mystery how the Igbos migrated before the railways came. The wave of migration during and after the railway era toward North is understandable. But again up till today there is no railway connection between the East and West. Canoe migration is ruled out since Igbos are not riverine people and there is no river connection.

mcnepow:
My reactions to your thoughts is to build refinerieS that can satisfy our needed annual consumption figures, in that way we wouldnt be talking about subsidy. But if u mean an immediate solution, then the government should investigate the sudden increase from 300billion to 1.3trillion then deal with the crooks involved. In that way ther wil be no criminal left to steal subsidy money.

Building refineries is a must. But it is a longer term project. Thanks.
All the previous goverments that allowed the existing refineries to go moribund should be called to question

When the first Igbo and Hausa and Yoruba met themselves, what did they say to each other? Assuming this meeting was before English language came into play

haka_nai:
Well i know that the igbos historically had traded with the Idomas and possibly moved up north gradually due to trade.I also know the Hausa have moved alot to in terms of trade to the central areas and basically had begin responsible for the movement of bulk goods between places and peoples.So trade of rear commodities may have allowed exchange and language interactions.Allowing the Hausa and Igbo meet and move business together.Explaining the significant number of Igbos in Kano and NW mainly. secondly the colonial masters also moved people employed by them for labour and security goals.

Thanks. The bolded seems the most plausible explanation.

Do you know for sure if any Igbos lived in the North before the colonialists came? Poor history of Nigeria.

But hunting alone, if at all, does not provide the answer since Zik was by far older than CE and Zik's parents were civil servants in the North before zik was born. I am getting really confused

Two fictional books could have provided some insight: Peter Nwanna's Omenuko (first Igbo literature written in 1930 and a must read for any Igbo) and Cyprian Ekwensi's (CE) African Nights Entertainment, about migration in Northern Nigeria and the wondering sokugo. But these are fictions.

Indeed CE's own dad was a hunter and CE was also born in the North in 1921. Could hunting be one of the motivations for this early migration?
Omenuko was the fictional story of an Igbo traveller who, if I remember correctly, became rich. He was a conservative man who hardly spent his money.

Igbos have not made good of keeping records
We know that like many of other Africans, many Igbos were taken as slaves to the Americas.
But we do not know of Igbos taken as slaves to the Northern or Western parts of Nigeria
Therefore, I should be right to state that the first Igbos in the SW and North of Nigeria were not slaves taken to those places by force

So my question is this? When did Igbo migration to distant Nigerian regions begin? Igbos traded voluntarily with the Ijaws and ogonis. So my grandfather told me. My grandfather told me his father used to ride bikes weekly from Abia state to Ogoni and other riverine areas buying and selling. I understand that, given the proximity between Igboland and towns and villages in the present-day River state. Same also for Cross River and Akwa Ibom. But I do not understand that of Lagos (SW) and the North.

Zik was born in 1904 in Zungeru, present day Niger state. This means his parents likely lived in the North before 1900.
Same for Ojukwu who was also born in the North.

When did the first Igbo man migrate out of Igboland to LAGOS and the North? Who was that Igbo man? Why did he migrate? How did he migrate (no Igbo man or any other Nigerian is known to own a car as of the 1800s). Did he trek from alaigbo to Lagos and/or Kano?. Did he ride a horse? Did he use the train? If so when did trains arrive Nigeria?
What prompted the wave of migration thereafter?

mikeansy:
How do u bear arms against a coward who sneaks into your midst to detonate a bumb.

I think Southerners should relocate and leave the arid North to Northerners! I really dont see what they are doing up there.

We even overlooked that important piece of info: that these days it is more of bombing than shooting. Thanks.

I am not an economist. Infact, the only economics I know is micro economics, managing my own micro world.  But I know the fuel subsidy is unsustainable and has only benefitted a few. Thus, I support its removal. The timing of the removal may be the issue for me, coming on the first day of the year, leaving many unplanned folks stranded

There are two things that can done in terms of timing:

1. Reduce the cost of fuel from 141 to 100 for now and then increase it back to zero subsidy (141) after one year, with a fixed, publicly announced date so everybody knows when that time will be and plan toward it

2. Postpone the increase for 6 months and then eliminate the subsidy 100% in July 1.

I am happy with subsidy removal, not because I live abroad (I have parents and relations whom I send money to and who suffer the increase) but because I see it from an economic view point, not a sentiments-based reaction.

That said, I will be mad at the govt when after a significant amount o  time (6 months and above) we do not see the benefits of subsidy removal on the masses.

Now we should be protesting the activities of Boko Haram and not fuel subsidy.

PointB:
Flash points will always gain more attention by the security personnel, bearing arms will give them fighting chance and increase their survival rate while at the same time reducing the frequency of the attacks. Why do you think the Berom in Jos are still standing despite the size of the fulani/hausa attackers.

like I said earlier those who have no interest to protect should return while those who have cogent reason to stay should be armed and ready and possible take the fight to identified targets. If the north is to be declared a war zone so be it!

How happy will you be living in a place you know your life can be taken the next moment not by natural causes but by the bullet of an unprovoked enemy?

Gbawe:
This is the problem with many of you fans of GEJ and , simultaneously, the reason why you are fans of GEJ in the first place. You guys are emotional, sentimental, biased and not capable of looking dispassionately at facts and reality. This is why you can , to begin with , support a man with a very mediocre record as a leader merely because his name is Goodluck, he rose to power "divinely" and because he is your "brother".

It is GEJ , to make a case , even as it is an  entirely false one, who states that Nigeria will "save" N1.1 trillion from subsidy removal. We can be be fastidous in telling him that subsidy has never been anywhere near that high for anyone to say assertively that this is the new benchmark. In other words we can ask GEJ why he is happy to use, essentially, an abberation as a budgetary marker !!!! We will not even do that.

Instead, assuming that the author has worked out what each tier  of government (FG, State and LG) recieves, we should focus on what then accrues to the FG and juxtapose this sum with amounts that fly out each year with Nigerians seeing nothing tangible for money spent. This consideration is what ridicules the unrealistic and, frankly, deceptive pledges of SURE. It is a ridiculous insult to the intellect of Nigerians that the GEJ Government is pledging so much from over-inflated and fraudulent spending to begin with. More laughable then that GEJ is touting N478 as a magic sum to fix all sectors while the same corruption still exist, perhaps even more rampant and potent now going by the hike in 2011 subsidy figures, that has seen billions of dollars flying out of the Nigerian coffers for the past few years with precious little to show for said spending.

Dude, I am no fan of GEJ but I will not let irredentists with sinister motives run down the Govt. What are you and your ACN governors doing about other natural resources in Nigeria? Why the fixation on oil?

PointB:
Defending themselves at least until the government improve security is what is being proposed. But if Igbos in the north are to return back is should be to Biafra, as long as we remain One Nigeria, the battle ground should be outside Igboland.

If you wait for the govt to improve security, you may wait forever. Unless you speak of a military govt.
Will you sit in one place forever to defend yourself? How about hunger that will drive you out and then you get killed while in search of food? It is senseless remaining in Northern Nigeria at this point.

Pharoh:
Jesus so we should only ask the federal government how they are going to use their share and forget about the other tiers of government?

LOL!! OP is playing kalo kalo with himself

Gbawe
What are you doing about other natural resources in Nigeria? Why the fixation on oil?

PointB:
Bearing arms is a good idea.

@Nchara, when the intruder know that the would be victims are armed to teeth like them, the would be more cautious in their approach. It would require more planning, larger number, and serious coordination for any successful attack to take place. This difficulties will leave a lot of trail due ti potential for mistakes. And they would also suffer casualties. I am with Knowall in this.

personally, i don't agree that every Igbo should live the North unless of course to Biafra. Those with no serious interests to protect and women and children should return but others can and should stay. Standing up, mobilizing, and conducting preemptive strikes to protect themselves is what I would suggest. A faceless vigilante group oiled by Igbo businessmen in the north is appropriate at this point in time.

Igbos living in the North cannot fight the North in the North. You will simply be overwhelmed. Besides, what is the joy in living under fear of death for the rest of your live?

KnowAll:
Are u suggesting all the Northerners are Boko Haram. I don't get u, obviously if the North as a whole are saying they do not want any Southerner in the North then there is no point being a united country. It is time to break up then. But did'nt you read  how the people of Kano State said they were going to shield their christain brothers and sisters from attack. That is encouraging.

When the die is cast, everybody will bear their papas name. I cannot imagine any northerner (muslims I mean) dying for a southerner. They all may not be BH now, but at some point it will be every man to themselves.


Best idea: all southerners move back south (send all northerners back too) and then secure your border. If they come to the south, then the war begins

BTW, is this not an opportunity offfered on a platter of gold for Nigeria to separate? They said we should go. What are we waiting for? Sometimes I am confused as to what southerners (Igbos in this case, since I speak only about my own) want.

frosbel:
ABUJA — Nigerian President Goodluck Jonathan said on Sunday that spiralling violence blamed on Islamist group Boko Haram is "even worse" than the country's 1960s civil war.

"The situation we have in our hands is even worse than the civil war that we fought," Jonathan said at a church service. "During the civil war, we knew and we could even predict where the enemy was coming from ,  But the challenge we have today is more complicated."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jw3qqQynCHjfPe5X1gF_yGID1sRA?docId=CNG.617348677ac41a42d29fe1cad16b703a.d91

So who was the enemy during the war? I know Ijaws were divided then. It will be interesting to know whether Mr President's family was pro or against Biafra.

This is a theoretical scenario concocted probably from the pit of hell
We wait until the SURE shows signs of failure
Stop derailing the goverment with your garbage-liable insinuations.

For Marlboro1

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-841422.0.html

KnowAll:
It is not only Southerners that needs to be armed also a Northerners doing business in the South like those poor folks in Sapele. A Motive to kill does not mean you would win in a fire fight, if you think along those lines shop keepers in the United States would not be bearing arms, the balance is 50-50. And most Igbo shops I have being to, there are normally more than one person in the shop and most shoppers tend to be around each other, so an intruder that starts a fire fight would have to overpower everyone around.

Let's assume the northerners and the southerners have similar types of fire arms (for e.g., a gun that shoots 20 rounds of bullets). So each will fire 20 rounds of bullet at the other before reloading. There are probably a few million southerners in northern Nigeria while there are tens of millions of northerners in their land. So bullet for bullet and shooter for shooter who loses?

In a short burst fight, the outcome will be unpredictable but in a prolonged warfare (most likely what the situation will be), number counts, okay?

tpia@:
what's your grouse with his post?

some of you are too deviously wicked for real.

Like you have been silently pushing your silly insinuations, right?

sheyguy:
u dont av to call pple names if u cant put up a good arguement, there is a thread in support of my comment which is titled to some thing like "Why are some states protesting petrol subsidy removal when the oil producing states are not".
U guys called those expressing their anger on subsidy removal "parasites" and "illiterates i.e not enlightened enough" don't u think their protest on security issues will send out the signal that they are the worse hit regions in BH crisis ? ? ?
If the igbos are pained let them turn to Gej they voted for massively, he is in charge and not the west/north.those in the ss/se shld come out and voice their their feelings out. Afterall one good turn deserves another.

Where is your proof that Igbos are not among those protesting in several places? Until you provide such proof, suht the fukc up. Okay?

How does arming southerners living in northern Nigeria solve the problem? Northerners will also be armed, remember? The Northerners have the motive to kill while the southerners only defend. Those planning to kill won't tell you their plans. You can only defend after an attack (when some have already died). You may even not be alive to defend

Unless the southerners adopt an attack mode as a form of defense, this is a dumb idea.
Best idea: all southerners move back south (send all northerners back too) and then secure your border. If they come to the south, then the war begins.

Duh!!!
We have parents and relations back home.
But fuel subsidy is something that should go. It has been a drain pipe used to enrich a few lucky ones.
I will begin my own protest when the subsidy is not used to better the lots of Nigerians back home as promised.
Now we should be protesting the deaths by BH

BS. These guys are lily-livered liliputians speaking tongue in check and hiding under the shadow of their party. You do not merely mention an unknown position to an ignorant or different audience. You state the position CLEARLY (for e.g., ''our party ACN said yesterday that they do not support fuel subsidy removal and we are now also saying that we do not support it''). This is as plain as it can be, leaving no doubt in the mind of anyone what their position is. They were speaking to a different audience than the one to which their party made the initial statement so they must make their own statement and then connect it to the stand of their party. How on earth can anyone know the position of a past speech not clearly reiterated in a current presentation? These guys are either bloody illiterates or cowards. 

BTW good to see Adams distancing himself from tribally cocooned governors. Better late than never.

emmke:
u are very evil. Pretty much as evil as the boko boys. Only difference is the boko boys have the guts to execute their evil and u dont (nl is usually u solace seeking and chest beating zone. Boko boys dont talk much). U really dont have any justification to speak ill of the boko boys.

Poor soul with no sense of humor. How drab can your life be?

Our Yoruba brothers should be taking note. Their churches are becoming targets too.
I was told by them that Igbos are the targets and that Yorubas are only part of the expected collateral damage.

T9ksy:
old boy, we all know that the witch that cried last nite has something to do with the death of a baby the following day. Didn't Ciroma, buhari, Atiku and co. warned you lot that if you vote Jonathan Badluck in to Aso rock , they will make the country, ungovernable? And what do we have now? who voted that retardeean into aso rock 'cause he appended "ebele" to his name?

Yes, yorubas and other southerners are being killed in the north but we all know that they were just collateral damages. the main target are ibos, period.

At any rate, didn't you read the demonstration by OPC last month about BK? What was ohaneze's response? Stay put! Noithing surprising there as that was the same message oju-iku gave his returning ibo people after the first spate of pogrom in the north by the hausa/fulanis.

Cry me a river, loser.
Like Igbos, your people are being killed, their churches being bombed and they remain in the North and you have the guts to talk about Igbos. You see, we know the names and identities of our people being killed; we are doing everything we can to bring the living back home. Thousands have returned on their own which is a good sign. Your man Fashehun says no evidence of Yoruba returning yet, even though we know millions of Yorubas live in the North. You cannot sustain any argument here because you are porous. Now be gone. BTW, Which one are you?
T9ksy OR T8ksy?

cyrberg; this is about percentage and not absolute numbers

Igbo do not need non igbos except by their will. An igbo country will do well with Igbos only.

the north caused it. you can see from their neighbour's ratings.