₦airaland Forum

I would have been ashamed if Biafra was defeated by Nigeria with its military wherewithal baring huge military and diplomatic help from Britain, Australia, Egypt, USSR, Arab League of Nations, Niger Republic, Cameroon and Chad Republic.

de above be typical whining of a sore loser. you go fight war, dem defeat you, den you dey cry.

your cry dey like person wey go battle field with pen knife; enemy go borrow cutlass from him friend,  enemy come take cutlass cut ya hand wey you take hold pen knife; and you come dey claim say, if to say ya enemy no use dat cutlass you for defeat am!!

what a ridiculously stupid statement! na only fools dey fight fair war! de time wey usa go invade iraq, dem carry british, italians, and several other nationals go there.  i guess from the warped logic above, iraq for defeat usa if to say help no come from other countries.

apologies to igbo people wey dey reasonable.  war na bad ting and we no need any battle cries for war again.


my question to reasonable igbo people be dis: una still wan secceed? una still wan create biafra, even after ojukwu and all of una leaders don espouse nigeria as their nation?

Beaf:
The solution is the complete devolution of power and remission of taxes (say 30%) from state to FG. This will weaken the center and make it unattractive to career criminals. The FG should only be the hub of such affairs as, military, health, education standards, science and technology policy, foreign affairs, intra-state dispute resolution and general paper pushing etc.
In this way, state leaders would be closer to their people and not be able to hide any paper trail in Abuja.

how you go accomplish this? e be like say you dey call for some sort of national conference where dem go decide these issues. no be the reps and senators suppose to make laws wey go address these issues? de tings wey you dey call for go require new constitution, do you know the process involved in doing this?

give me practical ideas as to how to accomplish these tings.

Beaf:
Since you agree with most of what has been said, why not lets take those and run with them? Let's bat ideas around in a mature way, know that naked truths can be difficult.
How do we ensure that every state in Nigeria is economically viable and not underperforming?

na now you dey talk. statements like "There seems to be a deliberate policy in the North to keep the masses uneducated and ignorant of their rights in a modern society; so that they are easy to manipulate." wey you make before, just did not help de cause.

de solution to nigeria's problems is to replace de current crop of leaders wey dey for power. e no go easy because nobody dey give up power easily. na for where you tink say the starting point go dey?

Beaf:
This exposes the root of the countries problems. There seems to be a deliberate policy in the North to keep the masses uneducated and ignorant of their rights in a modern society; so that they are easy to manipulate.

beaf,

most of the tings wey you write here make sense. you just provide additional evidence to back up my claims say, nigeria problem na problem of bad leadership. how de whole niger delta go remain in a pathetic state when most of the onshore oil dey come from dat area? how all de minerals wey dey for north remain inside ground without mining, while de masses for north dey wallow inside poverty? how come, we no fit manufacture needle, when ajaokuta dey there?

de answer, my friend lies in bad leadership. these bad leaders come from north, west, east , and south. every state dey get money on a monthly basis from federal government. de truth be say, most of the governors and other government officials dey loot de money.

de problem wey i get with you be say, instead make you blame all these leaders regardless of their state of origin, you dey complain say people dey call una governors tief. so what?

if ya governors loot money and misuse una money, why not admit it instead of playing the tribe game?  stop protecting the tiefs regardless of where they are from.

you dey devalue your, otherwise nice post with tribalism. stop it, if you want make we take you seriously.

i dey wait for mr. due process, naijaking, make him come tell us say na unfair ting to assume say tinubu be tief since court never convict am for any ting. na de ting wey him tell us about bank ceos wey efcc arrest be dat.

truth be told, none of de hands of previous governors and even current ones, dey clean. all of dem be tief! e no matter which state dem come from.

i no tink say tinubu go enter usa, any time soon. him no fit enter with diplomatic passport again. make him come clear his name! court filings don implicate am.

Beaf:
10% is too small. This proposal is a means for divide and rule.

Give us true federalism.

a 10 mile trek begins with one small step. dis deal na good deal, make we see how e go turn out.

now, with amnesty and dis new deal, if mend try any nonsense and blow up any ting, dem go have themselves to blame, if federal troops use unprecedented force against them.

SapeleGuy:
Onlytruth - I think my position has been constant and clear, I have tried to be sensitive because this is a very emotive issue but it needs to be said that Aburi was an exercise in futility and deception.

The quick fix military solution has proved not to work (it was neither quick or effective), with changes in military and insurgency tactics it will be a never ending war. Our only option is to pursue the objectives through a mature democratic process.

How were the mid west able to carve a region for themselves in the first republic with a derivation principle of 50%?  Those lessons are more instructive than the abortive aburi papers.

me i tink say de tings wey you post above can only be classified as voice of reason.

e dey instructive to note say most of de people wey dey call for seccession, do so, from de comfort of their living rooms in diaspora. nobody wey matter in or out of government for inside nigeria, dey take dis seccession talk seriously. de ones wey try am go rot inside prison, charged with treason.

phantom:
@ndu chux, you are just sitting behind your computer from God knows where, most probably the desert and typing dust.

me i tink say de mature ting to do na to agree or disagree with my opinion and tell me why, so that i fit learn from you or vice-versa. why de juvenile statement na?  i wonder whether i hit a raw nerve.

abeg tell me wettin dey wrong with my statement, nevermind whether na onitsha i dey or oshogbo, or china.

na de kind of incompetence wey dey kill us this governor rotimi amaechi dey display.  de reaction wey him dey get to his plan  should have been 100% expected.

a competent leader for don take measures to mitigate de risk of negative reactions and potential tribal war wey fit follow. why him no call de elders in, explain wettin him wan do, tell dem how him go resettle dem, and ask for their help in his waterfront projects?

amaechi should have been more sensitive.

maxsiollun:
No problem Chucks. I didn't intentionally ignore your question. I try to be a provider of info rather than shape opinion/provide know it all solutions. Also, I have had some bad experiences of my words being deliberately misconstrued and taken out of context by some unscrupulous elements. So these days I try to provide info and leave the reader to make up their own mind.

i understand - your point is well taken. na only suggestions wey i dey look for, but knowning ya status as an internationally renowned historian, people fit indeed take your suggestion out of context. if you be faceless internet commentator, i guess de tory for different.

i appreciate ya courtesy. you sir, are a gentleman deserving of much respect.

maxsiollun:
The only part of the Aburi debate that was NOT tape recorded was the part where Gowon revealed what happened to Ironsi. The only people who heard this part of the debate were the military officers. The microphones were switched off, and the officers went in to an inner room where Gowon told everyone the full grisly details of what happened to Ironsi. They did not want that part of the debate being tape recorded. It was a highly emotive issue at the time and perhaps they did not want to record grisly detailsof Ironsi and Fajuyi being murdered.

Thanks again.

abeg, you fit comment on my question?

as a world renowned historian, how you tink say we fit, as a country, escape from the conundrum of post civil war failure? personally i no tink say seccession go work, dat go just lead to another war wey go dey more deadly than the first one.

maxsiollun:
Ndu Chucks, we DO know what was said at Aburi:

1) The debate was tape recorded and released by Ojukwu to the public as a set of long playing gramophone records.

2) The tape was also transcribed into text and written out. The text was also released as a booklet. That booklet is still available and you may even be able to find a copy of it in your local library.

3) The Aburi agreement was publicly released as a communique. The communique is still available and is even out there on the internet!

http://www.dawodu.com/aburi1.htm

maxsiollun, thank you sir for the information above.

de problem wey i get be say, i no find de recordings or transcripts of de closed door meetings(at the so-called inner room) wey mobolaji johnson talked about in his recent interview. i really would like to see those transcripts, so if you know where dem dey, book or web site, i go appreciate de information.

de tings wey dey undisputed be say, aburi agreement was entered into, federal government reneged on de agreement, and we don fight civil war since then.

as a world renowned historian, how you tink say we fit, as a country, escape from the conundrum of post civil war failure?  personally i no tink say seccession go work, dat go just lead to another war wey go dey more deadly than the first one.

de ting wey i no dey hear from people be postulations or suggestions as to, how we fit take our country to the next level. what are your thoughts on this issue?

Andre Uweh:
My dear Ndu Chuks, what can you offer on the Aburi Conference?. I dey wait o.

my own view of de conference be say, ojukwu secured an excellent deal for his people. if he succeeded and biafra became a country, dat would have been excellent for the igbos. dat fact is not in dispute at all. we also sabi say ojukwu appeared to be more brilliant than de people wey attend the conference.

from my stand point, we no know most of what happened during the closed door meetings yet. mobolaji johnson shed some light with recent interviews. until most of what happened during those closed door aburi session come to light, i no fit judge the participants fairly. we know say federal government no follow up on their agreement with ojukwu, but i no sure say, they were legally bound to do so. they must have found out after the fact that the deal was extraordinarily lopsided.

i agree say we, as a country need to address several constitutional issues. i however,  believe say we need to do am within our established system of government. we no need to dismantle every ting in order to fix things.

those wey dey call for seccession go surely fail.

by the way, e go hard to draw a map of dis igbo land wey you describe, because de map go meander through the whole of niger delta area, old mid west, all the way to benue! correct me if i'm wrong, the igboland wey you decribe to me is different from Biafra as depicted on the map here

you tell us say boro and wiwa no be igbo, but biafra map include their land! abeg explain the discrepancy to me, sir.

udezue:
Don't worry about Igbos and there is nothing like core Igbo. Is there anything like core Yoruba or core Ijaw? Is there anything like core Caucassian? Freaking tribal simpletons.

e be like say you dey bury ya head for sand like ostrich. for ya information, ijaw people, ogoni people, and others wey una talk say their land dey inside igbo land; will never tell you dat they are igbos.  if we are to accept your definition, wiwa and boro be igbo people sef. how ridiculous! 

una no fit force those people to take up your own identity and more importantly, una no go get their oil under de pretext say na igbo land de oil dey. by the way, some igbo people sef are named shehu, in case your ignorance no let you know.

@df2006, see you and ya ego. you tink say you get sense pass everyone wey dey read de posts here, eh? i have news for you, people wey dey read get enough sense to see through de non sense wey some of una dey spew for here.

no matter how hard una try, una no fit convert niger delta and old mid west into igbo land. its too late for that.

make una reign una normal abuses and insults after una run out of points, no yawa.

Andre Uweh:
Ndu chuks
Igboland is a composition of the five south east states. Secondly it comprises delta north and upland Rivers state. Third, it consist five ndoki villages in Etim Ekpo Lga Akwa Ibom, Izzi people in Okpoku Lga Benue state and finally, the seven Ika Igbo villages in Edo state.
Biafra is the old eastern Nigeria and Igbo speaking areas across the great River.
Now that your question is answered, can we now concentrate on the topic, especially here we have Max and (Dede) who are authorities in Nigerian History.

andre uweh, tank you very much for ya honest answer. i no know why others been dey fear to tell us before.

if those of them wey dey call for seccession tink say all those people for delta, rivers, and ndoki villages go join dem form biafra, dem go dey disappointed. de seccessionists wan take all de oil producing land, join dem with de land locked area, form biafra eh? how wonderful! na de same idea wey heavily contribute to de first war be dat.

i no tink say niger delta people and people from edo state go join core igbos form biafra. na pipe dream be dat.

even de leaders of igbo people namely ojukwu, ngige, soludo, and others no support seccession again. de seccessionists need to learn to work within de system to promote their causes.

WilyWily,

e be like say you dey challenged a bit and are incapable of public communication or civilized debate.

why is it so difficult for you people to tell us where this igboland is located and what areas it encompasses? is the niger delta area part of this igboland?

de question dey simple enough. calling people names and reigning abuses no change any ting. my question is still open for de courageous person wey go answer am.

if una dey fear to answer simple question, then nobody go take una seriously. dan tselewa.

Onlytruth:
@JProspero
Ok bros, here comes your first lesson on politics 101 Nairaland style. Read the quote below and tell me whether the author is Igbo, Hausa or Yoruba:

I know you guessed something like -he is a "detribalised Igbo"- but WRONG! He is infact Hausa! He admitted much himself in an earlier exchange.He claimed he reserved the right to go by any username! He didn't see anything wrong with being Hausa but going by Igbo name here on political forum of NL. Pray did Carnegie think of folks like that? An Average American would tell you his real racial or ethnic background and still make his point. A Nigerian feels he must always cheat to gain the upper hand, it doesn't matter that his "upper hand" could ruin the nation. It happened at Aburi where Nigerians signed an internationally supervised agreement when in fact some signatories had no intention of honoring it.
I wouldn't discuss Igbo territories with a fellow Igbo would you? He should know, right? Since he is Hausa, why should I discuss my territory with him

I predicted that you will cowardly avoid answering my question, didn't I?

why you no dey bold like other seccesionists here? dem dey declare their imaginary territories with pride, but in ya own case, you wan claim other people land as igboland. dat ya intention no go work.

oil dey for niger delta area now, if una try come claim dat land by force, de repercusions go worse pass civil war own.

in case you no know, USA for example get independence for 1776 and in 2009, some fringe groups still dey publicly call for seccession. dem even predict de brake up of USA by de year 2012, just like some of una dey wish say our dear country nigeria, go brake up soon.

people fit dey for diaspora dey call for seccession, but if una try am with any seriousness for naija, you will be crushed again. dis time, no be federal troops go do de crushing, na una own governors and leaders like ojukwu, ngige, soludo, and others go put una for de appropriate place.

na for only internet una be warriors, coward warriors at that! to simply tell us where igboland dey, na big burden.

stop hiding under de pretext say i be hausa, or Yoruba, or ogoni, da no be de issue. just answer de simple question so dat your stance and position go dey clear.

but if fear fit catch you because of simple question, na where you go find de courage to come fight a second war na? or you tink say niger delta people go just hand you territories peacefully?

Onlytruth:
The mistake of my ancestors was to love Nigeria more than Igboland and I'm determined not to repeat that. Nigeria is not yet a country because of lack of shared values.

oh boy, you mention igboland for ya comment there. I hope say de igboland wey dey ya mind no be de same eastern region of old. additionally, i hope say you no dey include niger delta inside dat ya igboland. you sabi say una no help these people fight: isaac boro, wiwa, mend, and others wey dey fight for niger delta.

abeg tell us, niger delta dey included in dis ya igboland at all? no try run from my question, na very important one. people like me and Sapeleguy go like to hear ya answer.

A world renowned and respected historian posts the following

maxsiollun:
Guys just a few points:

1) Lt-Col Arthur Unegbe was an Igbo officer from Ozubulu in Anambra State. He was murdered by the Jan 1966 coup plotters. This has nothing to do with him refusing to hand over any weapons. At the time of the coup he was the Quartermaster-General of the army and thus did not have control of any weapons stores.

2) Lt-Col Katsina was not in charge of the 1st Recce Squadron when it was used to suppress the Tiv riots. Major Anuforo was in charge of the 1st Recce Squadron at the time and his anger at being ordered to shoot Tiv protesters was one factor that pushed him to take part in the coup.

3) Lt-Col Katsina actually risked his life to save Igbos during the bloody pogroms of 1966. He personally confronted some of the murderous mobs in order to stop them from killing Igbos.

We get the following "rebuttal" :

Dede1:
Major Chris Anuforo was commander of Recce Squadron Jos. The premier of northern region of Nigeria requested that both army and police deal ruthlessly with the rioters, mainly Tiv, who were the supporters of the UMBC. Instead, Major Chris Anuforo ordered the soldiers and police to arrest the supporters of NPC and release all the Tiv rioters arrested.

The premier felt shunned by the young Major and sought the help of the 1st Brigade commander, Brigadier Samuel Ademulegun, to transfer Major Chris Anuforo out of 1st Recce Squadron to 2nd Recce Squadron, Abeokuta then Army HQ, Lagos. In place of Major Anuforo was Major Katsina as commander of 1st Recce Squadron that saw the massacre of Tiv people during riot of 1964.

The link below would corroborate that Major Hassan Katsina was the commander of 1st Recce Squadron, Jos, even though the article indicated Kaduna.

http://www.dawodu.com/katsina1.htm

"Initially a platoon commander in the 2nd Battalion, he was later reposted to the demonstration platoon at the NMTC in Kaduna, as commander. " In 1961, he served in the Congo as an Intelligence officer. The following year, in 1962, he underwent further advanced infantry training in the United States after which he became company commander in the 5th Battalion of the Nigerian Army in Kano. When the Recce unit of the Army was created, Hassan was among the earliest Nigerians to be trained in Britain on the use of "Ferrets" in armored reconnaissance warfare, the others being Majors Christian Anuforo and John Obienu. As of the night of January 14/15 1966, Hassan was commanding the 1 Recce Squadron in Kaduna, while Obienu was commanding the 2 Recce squadron in Abeokuta, and Anuforo was the staff officer representing Recce interests at the Army HQ in Lagos.”

hehehehehe. wonders will never end. some people don become pathological tribalists and dem no fit tink with their heads again. dem no fit accept realities that any good can come out of a northerner. the response to the great historian's points is very pathetic, the responder needs to go bury his head for shame. i don talk am, na akamu dey inside him head.

small time him go give us link wey go show say ojukwu no even attend de aburi conference, despite de fact say de great historian confirm ojukwu's presence. olodo

Today for Abuja:

Mallam go buy dollar: N151
Mallam go sell you dollar: N153 (152.5 if you dey change more than N1million)

In an effort to achieve 6000 megawatts of electricity in the country by December this year, the Federal Government has disbursed $4.6 billion for the financing of Niger Delta Power Projects, National Integrated Power Projects (NIPP) and Mambila Power Projects, amongst others.

This reporting is very disturbing!!

we dey for mid october, some rascal journalist dey report say federal government wan spend $4.6billion in order to finance power projects. de rascal reporters also tell us say all these go happen within 2 months!

haba! me i tink say na irresponsible journalism at its height be dis one. i no believe dis report at all. these projects dey take months, if not years to complete.

Today for Abuja:

Mallam go buy dollar: N150
Mallam go sell you dollar: N151.5

no change for few days.

Afam:
So, in your opinion people should continue to spread hate filled lies and others should come and point out the errors?

Is there anything wrong in telling the truth?

Must you lie to make your point?

Is truth no longer sacred?

to answer ya question, i say absolutely not! e no dey necessary to lie in order to make a point. if person say  some ting wey dey inaccurate, e fit be say ba because de person make mistake or no dey aware of history. mind you, even revisionists dey twist history to suit their own purposes.

de best ting na to use undisputed facts to make points. i speak for myself, if una see any ting wey dey factually inaccurate in de points wey i make, make una point am out. i no dey too proud to accept mistake.

name calling no necessary, our objective should be to disagree as mature people and respect each other, ko kwa?

@onlytruth,  i dey take one eye watch you; even though i don forgive you for de rants and name calling of 2 days ago.

@ezeagu, na de kind maturity wey i dey talk about be dis. se as you point out factual errors without abusing people. kudos to you! make you try teach dede1, one or two tings about decorum.

bidemi12:
@ndu chuks  na there me and you no gree. with dat kain logic these leaders go perpetually put us for slavery. we must not use nigerian logic legalise wetin dis people de do or else the downward spiral go continue. wetin annoy me pass for naijaking be say e say we must give the bastard obj kudos for reinvesting our money wey im tif. what a shame.

bedemi12, make i state categorically say, i believe that all de looters belong in prison without exception. now, de realities be say, dis looters don hijack de whole country including de justice system, to de extent that, dem no go see inside prison, under de current dispensation.

having said that, if de loot remain for inside nigeria, methinks dat one better pass make de money dey for overseas. i no tink say anyone fit dispute this fact. and i believe say na de point of contention be dat.

bedemi12, i feel ya pain, and i believe say most nigerians fit relate to your anger. but de fact wey i point out remains true and valid.

@ezeagu, kedu kordi?

i hope you know say if you no restrict dis ya fantasy to internet, na for prison you go find yaself. even de great ojukwu sef no go support you. government fit charge you and becomerich for treason. i don warn you as a fellow forumite now.

Beaf:
What if a whole hostel of burden house students witnesses that sort of metamorphosis. Not just once, but several times in a single night? Would you say they were all crazy?

I have found it difficult to comment, because I do not know the true events at the accident in question.
But I and a whole hostel of other students witnessed something similar. I am a rational person who does not want to believe it. Also. I have played back the events of that night over and over in my mind, looking for an explanation, trying to deny it; but I fucking saw it happen over and over. I saw many things in that school.

There are things we cannot explain; indeed, anyone thinking otherwise is a fool.

oh boy, abeg tell us wettin you see.

i no believe say i fit come defend naijaking under any condition. i don dey try straighten dat elite nigerian out, thread after thread.

but as for dis thread, me i no tink say naijaking dey support looting. him be realist. de fact be say, de looters don already loot. most of de loot dey for oversea dey help de economy of those countries. so therefore, if obj leave him own loot for naija and take am employ 6,000 people, that is essentially the lesser of the evils that looters reign upon nigerians. shikena.

since for naija, at de moment, these looters no go face justice, naijaking believe say, if de loot remain for our economy, that is a good thing compared with the alternative.  on dis point, i agree with naijaking. if and when our own sergeant doe enter scene, tory go change.

@naijaking, dis agreement na rear one o, i still dey watch you and go call you out, when you bring disinformation come.

hehehehehe. people wey no get self confidence and wey oyibo don destroy their self esteem come here dey call other people trolls. if you disagree with particular points wey anybody make, why not bring ya own counter point without resorting to insult?

dis dede, call rotimi williams thug, while him say daddy onyeama and g. u. onyeuke na legal luminaries. rotimi williams, daddy onyeama, and g.u. onyeuke are all legal luminaries wey all nigerians supposed to dey proud of.

we need to celebrate de achievements of these people instead of calling de ones wey come from other tribes thugs, and the ones from our tribe luminaries.

de whole ting simply shows that you are an unrepentant tribalist. dis dede must be a very childish boy, intellectual midget, wey no sabi how to discuss issues without putting his fat ego aside. ya brain must contain akamu. dan iska.

small time e go begin abuse person mamma and papa now, when him no get point again.

naijaking1:
Araba was used to start the civil war, and it was by the norhterners.

Sir, and you're trying to say that though the north started araba, they didn't go to war over it?

Certainly, you do not sound like someone ready to learn from the mistakes of his parent.

naijaking, i no dey too comfortable with reopening old wounds. araba or any other violent action against nigerians no dey acceptable under any condition.

isolated violence dey occur from time to time for nigeria, and government dey put am under control and dem no dey let am escalate to war.  war and violence na evil tings without doubt.

correct me if i dey wrong, araba wey we dey talk about took place after 1966 coup, and war start only after ojukwu's announcement of secession by the Eastern states of the Nigerian federation was made on May 27 1967.

dat na de real reason wey war take start.  if to say ojukwu no declare secession; i no tink say war for start, if aburi fail, dem for find other means to resolve issues. na my opinion be dis one, but i dey open to education and contrary opinion.


@beaf, i dey happy say mend don take amnesty. make we all hope say, government go fulfil their own pledge. $2billion no be small monet to pump into de area. at least na small step in the right direction.

naijaking, from de ting wey you write up there, your statement wey i challenge was based on your own opinion and nothing else.

in dat case, stop parading the opinion as fact, na de only point wey i wan make be dat. but instead make you listen, you first dribble me all over de place, when all you had to do is say, i don't have facts to support my post, but I think it is factual.

i still dey watch ya misinformation, but i go spare you for now. if you nice I fit share a virtual calabash of burukutu with you sef.

gowaga68:
PPL HERE DONT WANT TO SAY THE TRUTH IF ANY ONE SAYS THE TRUTH THEY DISOWN HIM OR HER
God Help Us.
There's an Hausa superstition that says that if you take somebody's body parts, assume their name, or even wear their clothing that somehow you would also assume their power.
NO SUCH IN HAUSA LAND.

gaskiya ta fi kwabo.

naijaking1:
Similarly, here we have an Hausa-centric person calling himself ndu_chucks, insulting Igbos, spewing hatred against Igbos, spreading misinformation.

nwanne m, dis ya accusation na bad ting. abeg, point me to any post wey i spew hatred against igbos, and i will go and modify de post.

if you no fit show me any such post, make you be big enough to come apologise to me.  if i see truth, i go talk am, i no go let una spead lies for here. shikena!