₦airaland Forum

funkybaby:
there are just too many people interested in this our frog kissing gist  

i'll have u know i have been a tatafo spectator from the very begining.

justwise:

lol. . .y u dey squeeze mouth now? oya no vex, i dey go sleep!

toasting toasting. . .

jelling jelling. . .

continue o. . .dont let me spoil your fun

biina:
When you provision, your capacity is towards accommodating your peak value, while for the most part, your typical utilization will be much lower e.g. peak consumption for residences occur in the morning 6-8am and evening like 7-9pm. Because you cannot simply switch on/off turbines at short notice, the excess installed capacity above you average is wasted. The consumer ends up paying for this waste, but the larger the demographic covered, the closer your typical is to the peak demand, as it averages out over more customers. Most states in Nigeria have defining demographics, e.g. Lagos is heavily industrialized while Gombe is mainly agrarian. We need to average across the different type to bring our PAR closer to 1.

spot on! your making me nostalgic, i remember when i was first introduced to a load profile(twas love at first site ). . . sorry couldnt quote your whole post, didnt want to get banned again.

in nigeria(when things are normal, which is rarely) the hydro stations are used to supply the peak load since they have short startup time, and also due to the fact that water is a far more desirable fuel than steam as you dont have to pay for it, but with the gas wahala in nigeria, its not rare for the hydro stations to supply the base load, thats why when the end of the dry season comes, water levels are usually low and nigerians see hell (even on the PHCN side, nobody likes those periods). our energy mix is messed up!

doing a bit of reading, will get back to the other points. . .

was banned for a stupid reason, i'm off to find someone to abuse so i can be at peace. . .ta!

neither of you obviously knows what otondo means. . .

@mama-gee
surrogacy is basically doing something for someone. . .not so? it was used in the right sense, what jonathan meant was that he wasn't ready to 'warm the seat' for anyone?. . .you get?

OgidiBoy:
Just don't shake it too hard or your head could start hurting like mines.

well from your initial reply i assumed you got my point. . .but your next reply shows you didn't. . .i'm too much of a lover coward to get into the whole online fight sorry, my bad

i hate it when old ppl refuse to act smart. . .i hate having to be the bigger person!

@fl
u see what i mean?

OgidiBoy:
That's just the reason I apologized, and my head hurts. The last thing I need right now is for someone to piss me off.

ok, this is the funny bit. . .*sighing and shaking my head*

FL Gators:
he was calling mamagee an empty barrel


Respect your elders o

babe have i been anything but respectful? even when i was branded an ediot tribalist?

0hsisi:
I wonder what you were apologizing for
there are just some eediots on this forum that[b] can't stand to read anything Igbo[/b] written here without having fits of akwukwu

awww thats soooo sweet, she has flown to conclusions. . .such a pity as i had such high hopes. . .friendship, conversations over tea and biscuits, oh ma days, woe is me

[quote author=mama-gee link=topic=401163.msg5581062#msg5581062 date=1267060061]Learning how to drive they say is not a difficult experience
But, I'm so scared of learning.[/quote][quote author=mama-gee link=topic=401163.msg5581075#msg5581075 date=1267060183]Learning how to drive but anyways[b] I was taught by a professional.[/b][/quote]*sighing and shaking my head*

@ohsisi and ogidiboy
sorry to break up y'alls party but this thread isn't abt what was done to the igbos. . .

BTW was it only igbos that were killed in jos?

[quote author=na_so link=topic=403925.msg5580866#msg5580866 date=1267056528]Madam English mistress abeg face front. You are both ignorant and arrogant. Thank God say u no sabi pass dis, people for no hear word.

Surrogate(stand-in,proxy,deputy . , , )[/quote]kai. . .that was bloody

FL Gators:
lol you dey crase?
Are you done cleaning my toilet?
And you dont talk back to the person that's gonna sign your paycheck.

can we move straight to the action part dear? i told you i dont feel up to role play tonight. . .oya mama kemi go and wait for me inside i'm coming

men the politicking is becoming advanced o

[quote author=na2day? link=topic=399352.msg5580148#msg5580148 date=1267048380]thank u for the expo


u think say i be like u wey get[b] fish brain[/b]?[/quote]i swear i have a cousin that says that. . .lol

bawomolo:
anderson 360 no do you?

do the laundry, cook food, mop the floor, help the kids with assignment. now tell me where there is time to watch CNN?

dont mind all these pple jo. . .

@JeSoul and FL
the fact that you ppl have time to be coming here to talk back to the elders means you either are slacking in your duties, or you are yet to find anyone that thinks youses lot worthy of assigning said duties to. . .oya confess!

i'm sending them a mail now sef. . .thanks for the idea

if only the mods would put stuff like this on the front page

lol. . .nice cartoon

i'm loving this. . .it should be in the frontpage!

chamotex:
I like this thread


Please keep em coming I need advices too

i wonder how many ppl got what chamo was saying. . .

@chamo
you will not kill me o. . .lmao

[quote author=na2day? link=topic=399352.msg5573168#msg5573168 date=1266984569]isnt that why u love me? come here sugar [/quote]

michelin89:
My love is fatal and you are still alive. What do you deduce?

that he has found a cure?. . .

@jcob
you'd need to reformat the post. . .use synonyms and stuff, its like a buzz-word heaven for a spam bot. . .u used a lot of phrases spammers are likely to use. . .or you could contact the moderators and have them untag it(dunno if thats the right word. . .)

better still, u can check for it in your posts and paste a link to it here so that Tmoni can have access to it.

Beaf:
Funny thing is, I'm listening to news on TV right now and the Tory party in the UK is proposing almost exactly the same as I've mentioned here so far. They are talking microgeneration, about folk generating their own power. Thats the future, we shouldn't be behind the curve this time.

they dont have a power shortage, so they have the time. . .they're trying to reduce emissions and all that at the same time. . .we're not in the same league, its not yet time to start taking panadol for that headache. . .i'm sure if they had our gas and fuel reserves they wont be singing that song. . .

[quote author=na2day? link=topic=399352.msg5573168#msg5573168 date=1266984569]isnt that why u love me? come here sugar [/quote]awww thats sooo sweet, i rem when she created that thread dissing you, see what it has blossomed into

@michelin
dont forget to use the tips ohsisi posted when na2day? starts whispering sweet nothings into your ear o!

Beaf:
This is what I mean by decentralised;
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003182.html

It is a wholly different concept from our current distribution structure, which I suggest should be used for industrial supply, while the generator / candle masses should move toward self / communal generation.
In the above scenario, PHCN can become the power overseer, setting out policies and standards for generation, distribution and transmission.

o ok. . .thing with that is that solar, and all the others when compared on a $/watt basis are absolutely no match for fossil and hydro power, i have a report somewhere on my computer(i'll search for it) that shows that solar is not actually cheaper than utility supply(in the us).

but govt planned(twas during OBJs tenurem dont know about yar adua's ppl) to use decentralised generation for places where the cost would be less than builing a network and connecting to the grid.

another major problem in nigeria is that ppl are so used to govt subsidies that if they were asked to pay the proper price for electricity they wont agree. . .6.40 per Kwh is not in anyway a true reflection of what it costs to produce electricity(yep. . .esp in this our inefficient grid system) somewhere arnd 20 per Kwh should be good, but do you think nigerians will agree to pay?


[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=402020.msg5578888#msg5578888 date=1267038392]I for one, have not been hiding. This is the first time that I've seen this topic in this section, I've been otherwise posting on threads about MEND and the bashing of Northerners e.t.c.

By the way I agree with you that biina and beaf's positions can be harmonised.  I also think if Goodluck Jonathan takes the US government up on the offer to help build our generation capacity to 10,000MW by 2011, we will see significant improvements.  Let's hope the transmission system will be upgraded in tandem with the construction of this new generation plants to ensure that the transmission system can handle the new load (as you pointed out earlier).[/quote]thats what i meant now. . .i thought there wont be anyone on NL that'd understand what the electricity section is all about.

by the way, i know i've said this before o but, guess what? we've never had an engineer as minister of power, so those great policies that have been put forward? we've had french graduates, lawyers, architects and now an economist tryiing to decide the best way to supply electricity to the nigerian masses.

biina:
@netotse
'decentralization' was beaf's suggestion not mine, saying that each individual/household should be responsible for generating their own power supply and that there is no need for us to have a grid. I simply told him that he didnt know what he was talking about.

The breakup into GenCo (Power generation), TransCo (Transmission) and DisCo (distribution) is the first step in what I believe is the right direction. With the various phases separated we can more easily identify what the technical and/or administrative short comings are.

The next step would be determining the structure of ownership of these entities. While entirely FG ownership has obviously failed to deliver, a total private sector ownership (either foreign or local) will simply leave the people and the entire country at the mercy of some individuals (most who likely embezzled tax payers money in the first place)

Some people want the sector privatized, using the telecoms an example. But telecoms and the power sector operate under different market models. While in telecoms I can easily switch providers if am dis-satisfied with the product, in power, your location determines your provider leaving the customer no choice but relocation. Case in point, the wholly privatized sector attempted by the US has shown some serious problems, with private entities only interested in the major metropolitan areas where the large economies of scale guarantees wide margins, and have had to be complemented by about 3000 public owned utilities who are forced to operate at lesser margins.
Similarly on the generation side, you require PPAs which are long term contract that guarantee income to IPPs which implicitly kills the competition as the PPAs insulates each IPP from the rest. Malaysia has recently fallen into this pitfall.  Essentially power distribution is not a competitive sector and thus cannot be expected to work like telecoms.

For Generation: I think the Hydro stations, cause of their geo-political importance (both nationally and internationally) should be left with at least 51% with the FG . The IPP can come on board with with technologies like fossil fuels and some renewable sources like solar farms. I am a bit skeptical with letting the oil companies own IPPs as I think we are further selling our energy position to foreign entities. I would prefer the governemnt (state and FG) be accountable for at least 70% of capacity by owning majority shares in most of the power plants.

For transmission: This should be another majority (51%) government stake entity. We need only one transmission entity and cant afford for it to be controlled by some individuals. The government need to protect the interest of the people when signing PPAs and SLAs (this will affect tariffs)

Distribution: This should be on a regional basis, with each state (or group of state) being responsible for at least 51% of the stake. The private sector, aside from being involved directly in the distribution company, can come in also as outsourced revenue collectors.

Tariff determination should be primarily under government (both state and FG) control, with private investors having enough representations to ensure they are not unfairly treated and provide some transparency.

beaf has a point, in a way. . .our energy mix is messed up, 70percent fossil and 30percent hydro (and sometimes the hydro are supplying more to the grid than the fossil), you yourself said we need more generation and given the niger-delta militants, fossil stations just might not be the best(even though all the taeg stuff was you guys just wanting to outdo each other)

your analysis up there is on point! the part i dont agree with is the 51% for transmission though, i think its too small. . .but other than that, what you wrote up there is primarily what government plans to do(i've read the strategic plans for the power sector, dont ask me where ) except that they're encouraging all the IOCs to set up power stations(BTW do you know there was a time OBJ was giving conditions for awarding oil-blocs to oil coys, u had to build either a railway, a power station or a refinery, dont know what became of that plan. . .and i cant ask, cos i'm not s'posed to know ). . .fact is policy-wise in the power sector OBJ didnt do too badly. . .its the e-diots that we had as minister that always messed things up!

except of the making each home responsible for its own generation bit, decentralisation'll make sense on the long run in the NEPS, cos it enhances the power mix. . .

do you see you and beaf's positions can be harmonised and if applied we'll have a mean power sector. . .there's no reason to argue. . .

i say we cause hell on nairaland until they give us a development section where we can reason things out.


[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=402020.msg5578677#msg5578677 date=1267036675]I meant sell for pennies my brother, but with very specific and stringent conditions. There must be a requirement to rebuild the infrastructure by investing a lot of money that would have been used to purchase distribution assets - this will produce very quick results.  The said N8billion/month revenue could become N80billion/month in no time at all resulting to cool tax revenues for the government.

All in all, your point is well taken.[/quote]o ok. . .the conditions make sense. . .

where have you guys been hiding? so it took a fight btw beaf and biina to bring out the ppl that understand what the NEPS needs. . .

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=402020.msg5578476#msg5578476 date=1267034963]I hereby call Beaf and Biina to orderrrrrrrrrr!!

I've skimmed through their posts and they are both very passionate about their positions on the matter. Basically, Beaf is stressing decentralization while Biina is not.  I venture to say that they are both completely wrong, as a practical matter in their positions.

The solution lies in a combination of what they are both saying. Beaf appears to be a physicist (na him dey help MEND rig explosives, olodo), but he has ignored certain important facts. I will add that biina has ignored some of these facts as well.[/quote]i like this part. . .esp resolving that both of them are wrong

First of all, I submit to to that if we Nigeria were able to generate 10,000MW of power today, most households would not see a significant change in the interruptibility of power supply to their homes. This is because electricity cannot be stored and must be used when produced, you cannot as a practical matter store 5,000MW in any capacitor.  You see, the generated electricity must pass through transmission lines, poles, transformers, and copper wires etc before they get to our houses. Unfortunately, we have broken circuits all over the distribution systems that cause electricity to take the most inefficient routes before they get to our homes, that is if they make it there in the first place.  The distribution system has been basically destroyed by Igbo boys who steal copper within the system  for sale in ariara market.    Ok OK, don't crusify me, that was a cheap shot, I apologize to by Igbo brothers.  I meant to say, vandals and thieves steal copper and even poles, seriously contributing to the said inefficiency.

Without writing 10pages of text, here is my summary as to how things should be organized:

you have a point there, but not in the way you know it. . .the transmission grid is ineffiecient and cant wheel more that 4000MW now

Transmission:

The Transmission system in Nigeria is the only electrical system that works, we even transmit electricity to Ghana and Niger republic and other countries. We are unable to use all of the 2000 - 4000MW capacity and since we can't store the energy, we end up transmitting abroad. The government should keep control of the transmission grid.  The transmission system in the control of the wrong people could pose a very real security thread, hence the feds should maintain control here.

we dont give ghana light. . .stop lying jo , the reason we give niger light is so they dont dam the river niger, of which they are even planning to do so. . .the fed govt isn't planning to unbundle transysco. btw, you dont want to argue transmission in naija with me. . .trust me on that

Generation:

The government can continue to participate in this phase, but encourage and provide more incentives for IPPs such as GENCOS, TRANSYSCO, DISCOS, and others. Additionally, tax breaks and other incentives should be given to corporations, states, and local governments who wish to build small generation plants to power their operations wherein their excess power can be supplied into the nation's power grid.

this makes perfect sense. . .especially when you consider it takes 10years to break even when you build a power plant(i'm not joking)

Distribution

This area provides the best opportunity for complete decentrilization. The usual suspects mentioned above steal copper and other equipment including transformers with impunity. If these assets are owned by for profit corporations, the thieves will not get away with these thefts since corporations will take appropriate steps to safeguard their assets. My proposal here is for this sector to be completely decentralized. The feds should sell these assets for pennies to preferably, joint ventures of proven utilities with international reach and indigenous companies. There are several utilities that operate internationally. For example, I know of a Utility company with operations in US, UK, and several South American companies.

sell what for pennies? are you sure they aren't calling your name somewhere? distribution revenue is arnd 8billion a month, sell something like that for pennies abi?

The problem in the national assembly is not different from what we see with Beaf and Biina - swollen headedness instead of reasonableness and discussions without abuses.

I suspect Beaf is not used to cool headed discussions because he has been hardened by MEND activities, olodo.

true talk my brother

note:i know i said PHCN earns 8billion a month as revenue, but guess what? it isn't enough. . .its mostly spent on wages and stuff, the power sector is still being funded by govt.

Jcob:
Moderators y naw ? Where is my last post ? Abeg o

it was too much like spam so the spambot killed it. . .lol. o' boy that your profile picture get as e be!

AjanleKoko:
There are lots of jobs for you. Sales boy/girl jobs, attendant jobs in petrol stations, counter person in fast food joints, waiters/waitresses in restaurants, etc, etc. Get out there and find them.

he added 'B.sc in view', finding one of those jobs that he can combine with getting an education'll be like finding a needle in a haystack.

and i take it you two are still going to argue like children simply cos u cant agree with each other on issues that wont put food on either of your tables?. . .SMH nigerians