₦airaland Forum

Mr Troll: Believe in him how? Pls explain

Just accept as Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour and believe he died for you and you're saved.

Mr Troll: ^^^
don die oOoº°˚ ˚°ºoOo ! My own hellfire don sure be that. See what I didn't know before, chei!

What must I do good ser to avoid hellfire?

Very simple believe in the Lord Jesus Christ!

Mr Troll: yo man, honest advice: stop talking/typing
you're embarrassing even me now

Pls don't show ur ignorance the devil is in charge of these world and the system of this world, it's only xtian believers who are aware of their right in Christ Jesus that are not subject to the devil, except of course you didn't know this before now!

Logicboy03: If abortion is murder, then God is the ultimate murderer. He is the number 1 murderer considering how many natural abortions occur compared to man-made ones

You see the issue with you guys is that u don't understand the bible as much as u think u do. Why attribute natural abortion to God when he is not the one responsible, the same way u attribute so many other evils to God when it is the devil that is involved. Listen the devil is the god this world 2 Cor 4:4.

Again we don't run away from issues or twist them, but rightly dividing. As said before it was not a direct command by Paul to prevent women from teaching but to prevent disorder and problems in the church, the same way he chose to work and preach the gospel without charge lest it be brought it disrepute 2Cor 9:1-23, 1 thes 2:9, the same way he asked us not to cause ur brother to stumble because of meat offer to idols. 1 cor 8: 1- 13, pls read those verses and u will understand what I'm saying. Shalom

mazaje: You are just all over the place, in one sentence you are saying what Paul actually says, in another sentence you are trying to say he means something else . . .Why can't women argue with me over doctrinal issues?. . .Paul clearly does NOT want women to teach in church any where and any time and he stated it twice, he told Timothy as an injunction in his letter to him knowing that Timothy was going to open new churchs and that injunction is supposed to be abided by when he opens the new churches. . .What exactly are you on about?. . .

@mazaje again u're wrong, Paul did not to write timothy because he was going to open new churches but oversee old once, in fact timothy pastored more than 4 different churches while Paul was alive. Let me put it clearly Paul had disciples who use to follow him and.hear him teach & he had founded so many churches, so he used send them to churches to oversee and put things in order, so timothy was a major minister because Paul trained him personally when still young.
Now the reason why Paul said women should not teach was because the tradition of that time for both the Jews and gentile nations did not permit women to speak in the public. But xtians because of the HS allowed women to speak, buy women in corinth abused it and it became a major problem in the church so Paul had to stop them and even used the tradition of that time to back his decision 1 cor 14:34.
I think I will stop arguing wit u guys because we're still @ d very elementary stage of arguing abt d contents of the bible, there are still major issues you guys are not talking about, for instance the prophecies, d science. If I may ask @mazaje, @LB, @Mr troll, @Mr anony do you know when it first rained on the earth?

mazaje: If your assertion is true then why not say that the message in Galatians was only for the church in Galatians. . .By the way the injunction for women not to speak in public and usurp the authority of men was repeated by Paul in his letter to Timothy. . .

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 1 Timothy 2:12

Or are you going to come with the excuse that the letter was addressed to Timothy alone?. . .If that is the case then why not just jettison everything written in the bible because it was addressed to specific people and never addressed to any body in the 21st century. . .

Again read in context from verse 9, Paul was instructing Timothy who was travelling to oversee churches founded, on how women should behave and how they should be quiet and submissive in church meetings and not to argue with men over doctrinal issues, of course calling to remembrance the experience in the corinth church, but today they teach and even own ministries.
I know of a prominent ministry that donot allow women mount the alter but can serve in other places and even head home cells. When When I inquire why, I was told that some women were using the opportunity to contend with their husbands at home, so the GO put a temporal suspension on women, but his wife could still minister. I think he must have learnt from 2 Tim 2. There must be order in church.

Let clarify an issue raised earlier about Luke favouring Paul over the other apostles and the sudden appearance of James in acts 15.
First of all Luke was a disciple of Jesus although not among the 12 and later became a disciple of Paul, that's why the latter part of the book of acts were all abt Paul.
James the brother of John was killed by Herod in acts 12:1-2, because there has always bin a circle of 3 apostles has leaders and pillar since the time of Jesus; they chose James the brother of Jesus to join Peter & John. because Peter & John were always traveling to other areas to preach, James became the leader of the church at Jerusalem which of course was very large and then he wrote the book of James (which is the first book written in the NT). And that's why we see him in acts 15 giving a verdict.
It will interest you to note that Paul taught Peter, James, John and some of the early apostle the word of grace, Gal 2:1-2 KJV 1: Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2: And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
He explain to them from the scriptures salvation by grace and grace alone. But unfortunately by this time James has already written the book thats why it may look contradictory to Paul's teachings.

Mr Troll: interesting! When a clear verse comes up you hear them saying context, history, translations etc.
Maybe the galatians you quoted was specifically for the church in galatia and had nothing to do with everybody.
How about we all acknowledge that in fact all the letters were written to specific churches and they had nothing to do with 21st century people?

Paul's letters were written for admonition, for learning, to answer question asked and to correct some issues in the church. They're for us to learn from them another example is the letter to the galatians where he specifically address the issue of the law and grace.

Logicboy03: Does your explanation still make the verse alright?

Whether the instruction was meant for one church oor all churches, it is still very wrong.


Pulling another verse from Psul saying the opposite makes it worse because it is then clear that he waqs cpntradicting himself

@LB you see if u were a xtian it would've bin much easier to explain somethings to u; u see the early church grew in revelation knowledge and did nt just know everything after they received the holy ghost. Paul's letter are for us to learn from, you see the Corinthian church despite the fact they demonstrated so many gifts of the spirit, they were very canal and had issues. That's why it is only the church @ corinth that Paul wrote to correct some issues such as marriage, dressing, food offer to idol, water baptism, orderliness during church service etc. The issue is that since the were not matured in the things of the spirit, Paul had to do this to bring order back into the church. That's why he said he fed them in milk and not with strong meat.

Logicboy03: Let's take Paul for instance. You call Paul a great New testament writer

Women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says." (1 Cor 14:34)

^^^
Do you agree wirth Paul's sexism here?

@logicboy pls read that verse in context by reading the pretext and post-test. That command was to the Corinthian church which was a very canal church and Paul said it to bring calm and order in church and was not a general command bt specific to d church and@ Corinth that's why you can find in other Paul's writings and he said clearly in Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Well I guess this guys will stop at nothing to discredit the faith. For xtians reading this let me tell you guys something, when I started studying the scriptures long while back I wondered why the bible was written the way it was and why somethings which I thought were not necessary was even penned down! but this past few weeks I've come to understand now. People will stop at nothing in their quest to deceive others and pervert the scriptures. But thanks be to God the foundations of God standenth sure.
I heard it a long time ago, The three cardinal points to destabilize and discountenanant the Christian believes
1. Discredit the bible, say its stories are made up
2. Discredit Jesus Christ say he never died that it was all make believe
3. Finally discredit the biggest NT apostle, Paul not because he wrote most of the NT but because of the content, Paul taught more about grace and the truth that you only have to believe the gospel to be saved.
Going thru this thread I guess its no longer a myth or hearsay but now staring us in ur face.

mazaje: Morning brother. . .Not all the sciptures were witten by Jews. . .Part of the new testament were written by gentile christians. . .Am an athiest. . .

Pls can point out which ones that were written by nibble Jews?

@mazaje again u lie. Apst John declared clearly in John 21:20-25 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Vs 21: Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22: Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. 23: Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? 24: This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. 25: And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
So how come did u say John never ascribed the writings to himself or u've read this part of the bible?

@mazaje again u lie. Apst John declared clearly in John 21:20-25 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Vs 21: Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22: Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. 23: Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? 24: This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. 25: And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
So how come did u say John never ascribed the writings to himself or u've read this part of the bible?

@mazaje again u lie. Apst John declared clearly in John 21:20-25 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Vs 21: Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22: Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. 23: Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? 24: This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. 25: And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
So how come did u say John never ascribed the writings to himself or u've read this part of the bible?

mazaje: The first gospel to be written is the gospel of Mark and all the other gospels were copied from it. .The original manuscript does NOT contain the great commission. . .The foot note of the NIV and other english translations said these about the ending of Mark. . .

The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.

Obviously some one added it. . .

Gud mornin @mazaje, again u state things u dnt know. As far as the bible is concern all the bible scriptures were written by Jews. Matthew & John were part of the twelve, Luke was among the 70, why Mark was a relation of Peter n its believe dats it was Peter that furnished Mark's account.
@mazaje ask u again ur history did it state that Jesus came in flesh and if was killed? and I still waiting for d answer abt what u believe in. Tanx

I await ur response

@mazaje going through your posts I can see that you're trying to confuse people by bring fabrications and distorting facts. I'll try and address some of them. I don't see why rendering different accounts is enough to say Apostle Paul was false. First remember Paul did not write the book of Acts Luke did, so the first account of the conversion was not narrated by Paul. Let me say this in human accounts there are always differences, for instance even on NL when something happens in an area and people living there start giving accounts of what transpired, we always see some discrepancies and we have to read 3 or 4 accounts before we get the whole picture, we don't conclude it didn't happen. What I want to ask you is this, in all the accounts rendered did the event happen or not, does any negates that Aspt Paul had an encounter with Christ, if No then its irrelevant how the account was rendered.
Again you lied that Jesus said salvation was for only the Jews and not for the whole world but failed to quote: Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Marks account
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Luke's account
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Pls @mazaje pls what is your believe, are u an atheist, Muslim, pagan or what so that I know who I'm talking with. Thanks

Bidam: kai.noble fada why you dey fall our hand na watched the video before commenting. It's really a good christian video depicting why christianity is not fake.

My bad, I'm very sorry! where I'm now d network is just too terrible, I tried reading subsequent posts to get an idea what was in video but got irritated wit mazaje comments. It annoying every time this guys try to discredit the faith wit bogus claims n assertions. I just shut ayenny02 up a few days ago.

I will say it again & again the integrity of the bible & faith in Christ can never be faulted! and dats to logicboy, ayenny02, mazaje and any of the other folks who rather than come to light are busy doing all the can to discredit it. As the scriptures said, they will fail in their enterprise.
By mazaje what do u believe in?

The greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince the world he didn't exist!
Yet anode thread trying to discredit the faith which of course is impossible to achieve.
By the way I didn't watch d video my connection 2 slow bt I dnt nid 2 because its d same old story.
my only pain is dat why atheists, scientists, Muslims are busy studying 2 discredit the faith, xtians are busy partying n wasting time on frivolities rather than study to show themselves approved. SMH

deols: Saudi has makka and madinnah and that is all to it. Dont judge Islam by what Saudis do. You can judge me with how I use the power I have and not with what others do with theirs.

what Saudis do is their cup of tea. If the prophet allowed the jews access to the mosque, it is enough proof.

@deols are u denying ur holy land??

Haha I'm really lol! I enjoy seeing u confuse each time I confront u wit d truth. Guess u never imagined dat there are some NLders who are well read in scriptures. As I told u & logicboy, anytime any day I'll always have a superior argument because I'm well read.

Just 2 burst ur bubble again 4 d fun of it. The John14:1 u quoted was not talking about mansions as in house or rooms, but it's translated dwelling places. The believer is now God's house God's dwelling place. If u read dat chapter down u will see it in vs 23: Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode (dwelling places) with him. And see also 1Cor 6:19: What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Now let ask u a question since u've been talking abt duplicity as falsehood, how come if Islam is so perfect that you people have the shia & Sunni Muslims who believe in one prophet but go about murdering one another case in note is Iraq & Syria?

This the problem I've wit u, I've answered ur questions bt u're trying to avoid them. Let me tell you plainly the oneness is in the Spirit! The life of God is the Holy spirit, who ever has the HS now has the life of God. Its like becoming a citizen of a country. Before Christ people had the Spirit upon but wit Christ the Spirit is now indwelling the believer! 1Co 6:17 But he
that is joined unto the
Lord is one spirit. I have the life of God in me! Halleluyah

QUESTION 6: All are authentic because they are human accounts, read all of them together it will give u a clearer picture.
QUESTION 7: I don't understand, because in KJV, ISV, AMP, MKJV i.e. it is clearly written there. Pls kindly provide the said versions and I'll look it up.

QUESTION 8: I don't about the catholic bible (though I've about it), but all I know there is only one bible with 66 books, anything else I cannot comment on, I think you should ask the catholics.

QUESTION 9: I believe in only Jesus Christ as reveal by the Holy Scriptures and the bible says in Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life; Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved; Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. I believe the scriptures so I'm not interested in any other religion, besides I know Islam is not the way.

QUESTION 10: I found out a long time ago, truth is only found in Christ Jesus: Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me, and the Father is well pleased with him: Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell. I'm so grateful I'm in Christ Jesus!
Thank you for your time

ayenny02: Can you help me to answer the question?

My sincere apologies for not replying u much earlier. Now d answers to ur questions

QUESTION 1: The answer is right there in the passage, in vs 22: that they may be one, even as we are one. The first time Jesus was talking to the Jews while 2nd time he was talking to His disciples. Jesus was simply talking oneness in the Spirit by identification, read also 1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

QUESTION 2: Jesus came into the world as a man, but without sin. He knew the purpose he was sent and when the time drew near he became weary becos he was a man and feelings, the reason he said that was because he never knew sin and was about to be made sin which was going to cause a separation with His Father, that what was grieved him, but praise be to God He saw it thru and now I'm a beneficiary of His sacrifice. 2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

QUESTION 3: First of all Paul was not talking going to heaven here he already made that clear in Rom 1: 16, Rom 10:8-15, 1 Cor 15: 1-4. It is only the gospel of Christ that saves a man. He was talking about people who became believers after they were married not to divorce their unbelieving spouse. That why 1Co 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? Meaning thru them they might hear the gospel and be saved.

QUESTION 4: Here you show your ignorance of the scriptures because it was talking about no other than the Holy Spirtit (HS). True (HS) has always been in the earth but was never indwelling any but rather came upon them. Through the OT the spirit only came on them and then left, until Jesus who now became the first man to have the indwelling of the spirit Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. That's why Jesus told His disciples in Joh 14:17B; for he dwelleth with you (i.e. the HS indwelling in Jesus), and shall be in you (indwelling all believers).

QUESTION 5: When a man is born again, he is born again in his mind (that's where sin come from) and not in his spirit. The spirit is born anew but the mind is still used to the former pattern that is why the bible admonishes us to renew our mind, Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

ayenny02: From the verses of John, jesus made some points which as follows;

1. ANOTHER ADVOCATE
So from the verse of John 14:16 jesus said "ANOTHER ADVOCATE"" If the comforter or advocate is the Holy Ghost then how many Holy Ghost's are there? The word "another" is significant. We have already seen how this term is applied to Jesus (peace be upon him) himself. In English, "another" may mean "One more of the same kind" or "one more of a different kind." If the latter were the one intended then the current Christian interpretation might bear some merit. However, if "One more of the same kind" was what was intended then this is positive proof that the coming Paraclete would be just like Jesus (as), a human being and a prophet, not a ghost

2. "He" not "It":

Notice the use of "he" when referring to the Paraclete and not "it." If we read John 16:13, we will find no less than SEVEN occurrences of the masculine pronoun "He" and "Himself." There is not another verse in the 66 books of the Protestant Bible or the seventy three books of the Catholic Bible which contains seven masculine pronouns, or seven feminine pronouns, or even seven neuter genders. So many masculine pronouns ill befits a ghost, holy or otherwise. The word "Spirit" (Greek, pneu'ma), is of a neutral gender and is always referred to by the pronoun "it."

3. Sin, righteousness, and error:

The coming Paraclete, we are told, will demonstrate the error of the world regarding sin, righteousness, and judgment "he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." This is indeed what Muhammad (peace be upon him) did. He came to the world to show them how they had been misguided in "sin" by believing that mankind can inherit sin (see last quarter of chapter one, and Ezekiel 18:19-20) and that someone's sin can be forgiven by the sacrifice of others. He also showed them how they had been misguided in "righteousness" by believing that a righteous person is one who has "faith" in the crucifixion and does nothing else (Romans 3:28), or who believes that another man's death will make him a righteous person (Romans 5:19). And they were misguided in "judgment" by believing that they will be judged by "faith" and other people's deeds and not their own deeds (Mark 16:16), or that God's "judgment" was to punish all mankind for the sin of one man (Romans 5:16, 5:18).

Muhammad (peace be upon him) taught that the unscrupulous had altered the words of Jesus (peace be upon him). He taught that no one will be held accountable by God for anyone else's sin. He emphasized that God has made this a life of work and the next life one of reward and no work. He also revealed that mankind will be judged individually according to their own individual faith and actions and no one else's.

4. That he may abide with you for ever:

The Paracletos will be the last prophet, because he will "abide with you forever" and "he will guide you into all truth" (Greek "into the whole truth" and "he shall teach you all things," so there will be no need for any further prophets. In the Qur'an we read:

"Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is Aware of all things." (The noble Qur'an, , al-Ahzab(33):40)

5. He shall bring all things into your remembrance:

The prophesy of this coming Paraclete requires that he shall remind mankind of the words of Jesus. However, if the followers of Jesus already know and remember all that Jesus taught then how shall the Paraclete "remind" them of something which they already remember? Obviously, the coming Paraclete shall come in a time when the teachings of Jesus have been forgotten.

Dear ayenny02, I can see u're tryin so hard 2 discredit the scriptures! I guess u're rolling over urself thinking no one can answer ur questions, well I've did answers are ready 4 it??

Alfa Seltzer: It was already too much to have been a christian once. An encounter with the holy spirit would have ensured my mental incapacitation.

Well its a pity dat u're taking this stance, the Holy Spirit will open ur mental capacity to levels you can ever imagine, esp reconciling past history with science.

Alfa Seltzer: That's the problem. That atheists are considered inferior as to be tolerated and given a free hand. Who are they to give us? Why should we accept whatever those christians give? If we can't say our minds we better move or they move. Muslims moved. Christians can move as well.

I don't want any christian giving me a free hand. I was like them, a deluded christian before, so I don't know why an inferior mind should be providing my freedom.

@alfa it is because of people like u & Logicboy dat I try 2 response to ur questions because wile u guys were xtians u did not have an encounter with the Holy Spirit or were not taught well enuf or had ur questions left unanswered. But I believe dat sud nt have bin enuf reasons to become an atheist because in Christ every question has an answer! Christ is the explanation of all things.

Logicboy03: Yes, remain ignorant that some atheists were actually christians before......also feign ignorance that atheists cant discuss the bible pertaining to their experience/perspectives

No u & ur fellow atheist are the ignorant ones (well maybe not ignorant as not well informed because I no dat atheists are very well read bt ignorant in knowledge of life n God)

Thanks pls kindly send a copy to xonyowo@gmail.com.