₦airaland Forum

Odenigbo Aroli: Do you have any problem with me mentioning Aro in my post?

No, nothing. It's just that there've been so many misconceptions/false assertions regarding the Igbo.

KaimaTee: Moderator, why did you hide my post naa,you didn't hide antivirus post when he was calling people mad men,na my own you come dey hide. Abeg post my comment.

Please, point it out to me.

Ihe inyi na evo na threadi a a kala mu aku. Inyi mewa aga inyi choro kama inyi hapu Aro aka.

This thread has evolved into something totally different. Go on as you like, but just exclude Aro.

ChinenyeN: I lufuwala ya onu? This is what we call in Ngwa, true ilughulu, for which there is no redemption.

This one is beyond control. O lavuola.

@Antivirus92
Ngenidi ka i kwuga? Ndaa aga i za abia ebe ekwu ihe aga o wula?

Just to give you an example of why your theory is faulty, have you heard of the Edda people in Ebonyi State? They (and a few other Cross-River Igbo) claim to have originated from east of the Cross River.

I've been to Abia, Rivers, Lagos, Akwa Ibom and Abuja. However, I've driven through Abia, Imo, Anambra, Delta, Akwa Ibom, Edo, Osun, and Lagos.

Andre Uweh: Okeke tara ose oji
daa n'ala tie.

Brief and to the point! Excellent contribution.

I have read your suggestions, but I'm currently not able to respond adequately. I'll do so soon.

Ptolomeus: Again I ask a question that has not responded.


According to Yoruba mythology, when Oduduwa founded the city of Ife, Oduduwa began Orishanla disputes with the King (Obi) of the Igbo. These conflicts led to repeated clashes between the two armies. These wars, which end with the victory of Oduduwa, is considered by many historians as a recreation of what was the struggle of both kingdoms Igbo and Ife for supremacy.
The ceremonies are conducted in Ile Ife Orishanla in commemoration of these historical events.
Initially, these ceremonies lasted nine days, but now reduced to five days a week Yoruba according to four days, then the ceremonies begin and end on the day consecrated to Orishanla.

The main temple was Egigbo Oguiyán. His name is a contraction of the phrase "je Iyan Orissa Orisajiyán or Orisaguiyán and that the name is related to the option of eating inhame (Iyan).

For its part, the name of Obatala (Oba t'ala) means king of white cloth.

Here's my question:

Igbo and Yoruba have a different worldview, a different religion. But that relationship-Obatala Oduduwa imply a relationship.
This is a historical fact?
Actually there were Yoruba-Igbo those wars?
How is it that the King of Igbo Orisa belongs to the Yoruba, and is worshiped by the Igbo?
Someone can write on this subject?

I sincerely hope that no one is offended, because my intention is not that.
I tried to give the slightest hint of a theme that is very large and complex, so ask the brothers to make more contributions, and if there is a discrepancy in what I have explained, I ask all the manifest, as exchange always reflects the wisdom.
Is that the purpose of the forum, exchange of knowledge and healthy discussion.
I hope my comment useful to you.
Regards to all.

You might be talking about Ijebu-Igbo, Igbo-Ora, or other Yoruba groups with the word 'Igbo'. The Igbo that we are discussing here is different from the one you're referring to.

Chioma - Someone who has a favorable guardian spirit.

Ihezanchi - all things come from God.

I feel you guys. It just reaks of ignorance when someone (especially an Nigerian) in today's world writes 'Ibo' instead of 'Igbo'. I support Andre's statement. Igbo is not an English word, therefore the rules of the English language don't apply to it. The singular form of 'Igbo' is 'Igbo' and the plural form is also 'Igbo' or 'Ndi Igbo' just as the plural form of 'Indus' (a Latin word) is 'Indies' and not 'Induses'.

For example:
"There are many Igbo here" is "Ndi Igbo do otutu ebe a".
"We are all Igbo" is "Anyi dum wucha ndi Igbo".

Odenigbo Aroli: Odumchi,how can you say no need to centralize ?? Will you be able to pronounce what Chinenye writes or you just want to give him some room to show his burning desires to write in Ngwa I mean,are we here to learn new dialects or what ?? Nwokem,wepu aka enwe na ofe tupu oghoo aka nmadu!

Nwanna m, Igbo na asu na olu na olu kama anyi kwa ukwaara o bu olu. Poetry is like music. If all music were sung in Central Igbo, then music would be boring. The freedom of dialect allows one to take craft his/her words/sentences and thoughts as he or she would like. It gives the poem the flavor derived from that dialect.

The truth is that you probably didn't understand the entire langiage in my poem and I did not in yours. However, we can help each other interpret our poetry. Poetry isn't meant to be understood immediately. Rather, it's meant to be digested and thought about.

ifyalways: Ukwu nkwu juru eju.
Owa nje nje.
Anu elu bia obelu ta,
Anu ala bia obelu ta.
E rue ka mbe biara ibe,
Ijiji kee ya okpo na isi,
I-koplolo I-kpololo
Mbe dalu dalu dalu
Dajie Nwa mgbada ukwu,
Nwa mgbada tiri tiri tiri tiga na ulo Ikpe,
Ndi ocha no na ya,
Ha asi ya "get away"
Nwa mgbada asi ha "umu otondo" !

One of my favorite nursery school rhymes.

Ify ndeewo nu! Thank you for this excellent contribution.

Odenigbo Aroli: Anu emeelu ogo buluzi ogo emelu ya baa offia.
Nekwa na okenye anolu na uno ewu amuo na ogbuli.
Egwu adi chi wee welu efifie jie n'igwe.
Ana agwo okoli ibi ona eto afo.
Mana onye na egbu ngwu malukwa na ngwu bu osisi alusi.

Nwanna, ihe a I dere di ikpiti (deep). Props. Did you write it yourself, and care to explain it?

Anyway, Chinenye didn't do anything wrong by posting poetry in his Ngwa dialect. The purpose of this thread is to explore Igbo poetry and works in all dialects plate appreciated. Personally, I prefer writing poetry in my dialect as to Central Igbo because I can craft my words much better and supplement then with deeper idioms in my dialect than I can in Central Igbo. If you need a clarification/explanation, ask.

ChinenyeN: Yes. I am working on a number of arts/media/entertainment projects, the biggest projects being one hopefully feature film and a mini series. The feature film (which may just turn out to be just a short film, or to make things easier, a mini series) is a modern adaptation of the historical events that surrounded Ngwa/Aro relations in the 18th/19th centuries, but it is centered in a single, fictitious town, with fictitious characters.

The mini series is a screen adaptation of a story a friend of mine in the UK (from Aro, as well) is writing. It is basically about a young diaspora Igbo man's struggle to grow out of his father's shadow. Those are the two biggest projects I'm working on, alongside other smaller, but equally deserving projects.


You understood correctly. Also, that something (ogbede) is youth.

This is very interesting. More grease to your elbows.

ChinenyeN: I have no problem giving explanation. I understand how unlikely it is that anyone would just understand the poem and it's meaning, since much of the idioms I used are very specific to my region. Unless one is familiar with my region/people's vast array of idiomatic expressions, there is no way one would be able to initially interpret the poem and its message.

The poem was my response to something I had witnessed in the life of someone I had known for a very long time, since we were small small children. Essentially I had been there and seen the progression of events in said individual's life, as well as the inevitable outcome, but it was not until I witnessed the outcome that I began to remember the progression of events. After thinking on it (because this individual was someone I knew well), I began to notice how the lives of some others I had known in passing, either through school or through summer programs, had mirrored a similar pattern of development. The signs had been there. Had I paid better attention, I would have seen the end result coming, and possibly did what I know to do as a friend (and this applies to anyone who has found themselves in a similar position as I). Things that could have been avoidable, essentially became inevitable.

Rigwem la Nkwa (Grinding & Dancing)

Rigwem rigwem nji agho nkwa (Small steps lead to dancing)
Nwantakala uka ju avo (Little by little dispute fills the basket)
Ebele ngwa awaa (Someone else's calabash shatters)
Njokoro amara ghorola omelala (Evil becomes as tradition)
O bu la a maara akaa, ta a kaa anuu? (Is it that what could have said was not said, or that what was said was not heard?)
Uwa ntoronu uto l'ogbede (Life is so sweet in one's youth)
Ma onye ntara akara ngasi ikwu ugwo ya (But one who bites into the akara has a debt he must pay)

Ah, I see. It's amazing the way many of our past experiences influence our futures and mindsets (as yours clearly did).

ChinenyeN: Need not be centralized; now we're speaking my language. Here's one I wrote myself as part of a collection entitled Edudu Erne ke Afonne.

Rigwem la Nkwa

Rigwem rigwem nji agho nkwa
Nwantakala uka ju avo
Ebele ngwa awaa
Njokoro amara ghorola omelala
O bu la a maara akaa, ta a kaa anuu?
Uwa ntoronu uto l'ogbede
Ma onye ntara akara ngasi ikwu ugwo ya

This is very interesting. You seem to be doing a lot of interesting things. I once read a thread in which you said something about a movie/documentary you were directing/writing. I'd like to know more about that.

I understood (or atleast I think I did) these parts:

Uwa ntoronu uto l'ogbede - the world is sweet in something.
Njokoro amara ghorola omelala - evil has become tradition.

It would be much appreciated if you gave us an explanation of your poem and the things that drove you to write it. However, if you decide to wait so that more people can attempt to decipher it, that's fine too.

ChinenyeN: Loolll not quite. My signature is saying "Ngwam :: native son dey hail/greet"

Lol. I don fail be dat. Interesting signature, by the way.

odumchi: [size=15pt]IHE EMEBIELA[/size]

Chai!
Ihe emebiela!
Osa egbuola egbe
Oku a taala nmiri
Evi amuola ewu
Oke elola agwo
Ogo ataala oku
Ihe emebiela!

I decided to write this poem because I was thinking about how the advent of the Europeans destroyed parts of the cultures of we Africans. This poem is simply meant to sum up my feelings towards that. The poem lists the abnormalities caused by damage done to our way of life.

Here's the line by line explanation:

Ihe emebiela! :: things have spoiled!
Osa egbuola egbe :: the squirrel has killed the kite
Oku a taala nmiri :: fire has consumed water
Evi amuola ewu :: the cow has given birth to a goat
Oke elola agwo :: the rat has swallowed the snake
Ogo ataala oku :: the village has burned
Ihe emebiela! :: things have spoiled!

I'd like to see you guys' contributions.

I'll start.

I wrote this poem myself. The title is "Ihe emebiela".

[size=15pt]IHE EMEBIELA[/size]

Chai!
Ihe emebiela!
Osa egbuola egbe
Oku a taala nmiri
Evi amuola ewu
Oke elola agwo
Ogo ataala oku
Ihe emebiela!

Ndi Igbo kedu ka unu mere?

I opened this thread so that we can share our people's age-old poetry with each other. In doing so, I hope that we will refresh ourselves with knowledge of our people's exquisite conversational skills and imbue within us an appreciation for traditional arts and pastimes.

Please feel free to post both self-made and traditional poetry. All submissions must be in Igbo (but explanations can be in English) and, preferably, in their original dialects (meaning they don't have to be centralized).

The Culture section administration board is working hard to make the Culture section a more enjoyable, neater, and learning conducive place for Nairalanders. However, to make our job easier and your experience more worthwhile, we would like to hear (or, in this case, see) you guys' suggestions. Please feel free to drop off any suggestions as to how the Culture section can be improved.

With this in mind, I'd like to remind everyone that this thread is not meant for complaints. A thread solely dedicated to handling you guys' complaints already exists (https://www.nairaland.com/231979/complaints-notice-thread-serious).

Thanks for your cooperation,

Odumchi.

I think Akwa Ibom and Cross River could've worked out an amicable solution to their problem. Maybe the oil wells could've been shared?

Cross River (a state with a strong dependence on toursim and limited infrastructural development) could've really benefited from the wealth generated by those oil wells.

Odenigbo Aroli: Well Odumchi,the exploits of ndi Aro in the days of human selling isnt in doubt rather what irritates me is the means with which they achieved their aim...You said "significance". Significant in what ? Where did they get the money used in running their human selling confederacy? They got it from invading,kidnapping and selling their fellow Igbos! It was because of Aro that ISU went into ruins! Tell me one good thing that Aro brought to Igbo land other than human hunting and selling...I know some of Aro guys that think they are incredible because Aros were seen as warrior but they werent fighting a just course and I always ask them what good was Aro to Igbo land. I dont think you should be fantacizing about the confederacy because it brought a lot of pains to the Igbos and Africa. I wish that confederacy was never formed !!

Open a thread about this and I'll happily discuss it with you. Let's not derail this thread.

pleep: If i ever got a tatoo if would be a Nsibidi letter.

This post got me thinking, Nsibidi would have been a good national alphabet for a S.E Nigerian state. I was previously unaware that it had any connection to the Igbo language, but if it is something common to all the tribes of the S.E it could have been a good unifying agent.

I'm just curious. Do they have nsibidi in your part of the Annang territory?

Crayola1: For Odumchi
Akagu
The name I chose for the script is 'akagu', it has a very simple meaning and if you read Igbo (in the horrible, evil, terrible, Latin script of course) you would know that this means 'Leopards hand'. The name was coined as a homage to the leopard societies that developed and maybe even invented nsibidi, so it's supposed to be be understood as 'the hand of the leopard', 'the writing of the leopard', or even 'the writing from the leopard people'.

The grapheme's or 'letters' aren't just direct copies of the current Igbo-Latin alphabet (Önwu), new phonemes (fancy talk for sounds) have also been added, including one that could be represented in Latin by an X! More on that later.

First, let's see what the characters look like and what their Latin equivalents are, and then we will look at how we got these characters.

[img]http://1.bp..com/-bc5GhtPTsew/TcmcxuwbkqI/AAAAAAAAAWY/GanCuMU6trA/s1600/Akagu.JPG[/img]


You may have noticed that letter C has been knocked out. Who ever uses c in Igbo except for 'chi'? Why was left put in? The other characters are acceptably explained with the Latin script except the XI, this is typically found in the dialects around Umuahia and some other parts of the Igbo speaking area of Nigeria. An example for 'Xi' is found in the word for 'zi' (show) in a particular type of Igbo (such as Ohühü) the sond is also found in 'ezì' (pig), the sound is comparable to French 'je' but more specifically 'ji'.

Nwa, nwe, et is a commonly repeating phoneme so it has been made into characters. Ch you may remember is from the made up character for the concept of chi, this chi is differentiated because the chi is not in their 'house' (the box that surrounds it). When spelling 'chi', the 'i' in akagu is not needed as 'ch' is 'chi'. The Hā, hē, et is typically found in Abia state and in the Ika speaking region of Delta state. The hnwā, hnwē, et is typically found in Ngwa. The ñ is found in the 'ñu' ('drink').

The tones explain themselves, the high and low tone come before and after the vowels or the 'n' or 'm' respectively, the symbols for 'ạ' and 'ȧ' are representations of the nasal tones and the 'ä' is the mid nasal tone, e.g in hä (them).

There are two types of the script which can be compared to capitals and lower case. The first kind is the 'normal' script (top) and it is this that is used for formal writing and for a computer unicode (typing). The second is 'Akagụ ȯsȯ' ('Fast akagu') is the less formal way of writing, maybe in a situation like at school or a letter to a friend. The main akagu is also used to write foreign words and the quick hand is used to write Igbo, which is similar to Japanese kana.

COMPLEX CHARACTERS AND VOWELS


One of the biggest differences to the Latin script is the creation of complex characters using vowels on consonants. To make a long explanation....not long, in Igbo we know that some vowels are dropped when a sentence is made with a word ending in a vowel and a next character starting with a vowel (I can't be bothered to do fancy words), a sentence like 'Ọ gà na írú' ('progression'), has become a word in Igbo but the current writing system is so inconsistent, and the lack of management for Igbo is so little that it can be written anyhow, anyway, short story, short story. Another way of writing it would be 'Ọganíru', notice how the a from 'na' has been dropped? In akagu the 'a' is written in the quick hand form and then placed at the top right of the consonant before it, the superior vowel (in this case 'i') is written normally and the spaces are removed from the two words. Why do this? Sometimes when Igbo words are joined together in Latin, the original meaning is hard to decipher especially when most people who write Igbo leave accents off certain words, e.g n'ime is 'na ime' (inside) and could be read also as 'na ímé' ('to do...'). In akagu the vowel that would have been left out is added to a consonant almost as an accent, more appropriately a complex character that's similar to a ligature. This preserves the whole original word from the complex character to the beginning of the word, and also signals to the reader to add an extra stretch or to add that little sound that indicates a vowel skipped. The only way I can explain is in an English name like Michael, you almost say My-kel, but you say My-kol because of that 'a', well depending on you English accent, but you should have a rough understanding of what I mean.

In the picture below, the vowels that makes up the complex characters are circled in red. Try and see if you can read it, it may seem a bit awkward at first, but what doesn't?!

[img]http://2.bp..com/-2Xyc5VSQyK0/TcmmfQRxIaI/AAAAAAAAAWg/kr6P-cw9yrw/s400/akagucomplex.JPG[/img]

I understand that the writing system will have to be explained orally for better understanding.

ORIGINS


This post is long enough so this is the origins of the script condensed:
The characters were taken from original nsibidi characters and then simplified by writing the nsibidi characters over and over again in a style that mimicks shorthand or everyday use.

The characters produced from this shorthand use is then assigned to a phoneme (sound) that is similar to the first used in the nsibidi it was derived from, e.g the 's' phoneme was from 'osisi' ('tree or wood', the 'o' phoneme was from 'ogbakọ' (meeting), et.

The quick hand nsibidi were the first created. They didn't look formal or nsibidi-like enough so some were simplified further and they were all given bars at their ends, similar to many nsibidi characters.

And that was it.

Below is a comparison of the akagu script to the nsibidi characters they were derived from. Some of the nsibidi characters were forged (or merged) here on this blog, some of them were simplified, some are completely original, some are not nsibidi characters but motifs.

[img]http://3.bp..com/-3eOQbP5Fm1w/Tcmo1UxyE3I/AAAAAAAAAWs/mdNLd0TVVOc/s1600/Derivative.JPG[/img]


This is Akagu, a proposed Igbo script. As you may have seen, akagu can be put into different weights, sizes, cases and more. It is dynamic and also unique. One of the disadvantages it has to Latin is that it cannot be recognised as easily as Latin in the lowest text size possible, apart from that I'll let the readers (and the people who may be manipulating it one day) decide. There are probably many errors and this post is very long, so I'll end it here. More updates will be coming for nsibidi and akagu later, in the meantime your feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks. This is very interesting. I'll look into it.

ChinenyeN: Announcer 1: And and excellent counter play by the Aro Son of Soil himself.
Announcer 2: Oughtta give Odenigbo a thing or two to think about, that's for sure.


Hhaaha aside from "Ibo Confederacy" & "independent nation", I can comfortably agree with how this timeline has played out.


Ochi lei. I chogha madhu l'igbu? So what do you understand from it?

Lol. You're funny .

I interpreted your signature as: "Ngwa: the motherland of the Ikwere".

Odenigbo Aroli: At Nwa Ngwa, as you can see, I am aware of that Aro conjucture. I dont know where the heck the story arose from but there is absolutely nothing to prove an Aro connection nor influence in all of Umu Okodu clans. Like I said before,we have Aro settlers in a village called Umuobia but they have acculturated into the Nri culture and the are the ones that brings the "AKWUNECHENYI" masqurade to the "Uzo Iyi" festivals. Moreover,Umuoji itself is bigger than Aro with 23 villages. So,there is absolutely nothing to think about,Ngwa hwem.

Odenigbo, I'm not really concerned with whether or not you are Aro. I don't really feel like it's necessary to debate that at this moment. The point of my statement was to help you realize the significance of the Aro Confederacy since you condemned it as "the same Confederacy that thrived in the evil act of human hunting and selling".

Odenigbo Aroli: Umuoji itself is bigger than Aro with 23 villages.

Are you talking about Arochukwu or the entire Aro people? I'm not sure of the population of Umuoji but if it can top Arochukwu's 200 thousand, fine. But remember this, Umuoji is developing and is turning into an urban center. Even if it's population were larger than that of Arochukwu, the population of actual Umuoji indigenes (in Umuoji) would still be far smaller than the population of Arochukwu indigenes (in Arochukwu).

Odenigbo Aroli: You mean the same Confederacy that thrived in the evil act of human hunting and selling? ??

If you're talking about the same Aro Confederacy that brought unprecedented political stability and mass economic activity to the eastern Nigerian region, cunningly established itself as a powerful force and power broker in eastern Nigeria, facilitated the cultural exchange between the groups of the Cross-River region and the Igbo, and gave spawn to fearless individuals like Okoli Oti (who is rumored to be the founder of Umuoji: meaning, technically, you might be an Aro yourself), Izuogu Mgbokpo (the father of Arondizuogu) and many other brave pioneers and warriors, then yes, that's the one.

M vukari Aro na anya.

ChinenyeN: Maybe in this other timeline, we would have better foreign relations.

Ha! Perhaps so, my friend! I can already imagine it: the Aro, Ngwa, and their allies combining forces to squash the Europeans. I can already see the newspaper headlines in London: "British Expeditionary Force forced to abandon West Africa, England recognizes the Ibo Confederacy as an independent nation. England seeks peace talks in Accra."



Oh, and for the first time, I can understand your signature! Praise be to Jesu!

alj harem: LOL

Ritualist Baba don ask you to bring baby male lizard ?

Lmfao.

Aro Confederacy.

igbo2011: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2169770/Former-President-George-Bush-forgoes-July-Fourth-celebrations-spends-holidays-Zambian-orphanage.html
He is responsible for millions of deaths in Iraq and he is responsible for deaths in the COngo as well.

Chei. How many people dey in Iraq sef?

I'm sure that most Igbo sub groups have their own special traditions regarding the marriage ceremony. For example, in Arochukwu, we have our own marriage ceremony which we call "ipa nmai".

Obasi di na elu gozie gi, Ezeagu.

I think it depends on the particular genre you listen to.

This is just a suggestion: how about changing the name of the thread from "richest town" to something less controversial like "the town with the highest concentration of millionaires"? Not that it matters much, but it's just that we wouldn't want people to take this the wrong way. Besides, I don't think having a high concentration of wealthy individuals technically makes a town/locality prosperous. Look at the Ekiti state example.

Anyway, back to your topic....
What about Onitsha and Owerri?