₦airaland Forum

GothamCities:
My screenshot tells me it has multiple translations depending on context and it went ahead to list all possible translations but because you want to defend falsehood, you want us to focus on the first part of the sentence that suits you but we should overlook the remaining part that listed all the possible translations.

Have you looked to find a direct translation from Arabic to English?

I used MetaAI like you and got similar but not the exact result you got. Do you feel all the possible translations were given by your method?

The word “بِسَاطاً” is derived from the Arabic root “بسط” (baṣṭ), which generally means to spread or extend.

Common Translations are:

Carpet: This is one of the most direct translations, referring to a textile floor covering.

Rug: Similar to a carpet but often smaller and used for decorative purposes.

Mat: A more general term that can refer to any flat piece of material used on floors,
including welcome mats or yoga mats.

Spread: In some contexts, it can refer to something that is spread out over an area, such as grass or flowers.

Blanket: While not a direct translation, in certain poetic or metaphorical uses, it may refer to something that covers an area like a blanket does.

In common usage, it typically refers to tangible items such as carpets or rugs found in homes.
In literary or metaphorical contexts, it may describe scenes like fields adorned with flowers or convey abstract ideas, such as the comfort associated with a home environment.

In the context of the verse where it is used what will be the meaning? Is the first part of the sentence outside the context ? ? ?
This is simple and not in anyway related to pooling the wool over your face.

Use an actual dictionary for your translation not Meta AI

Take your screenshot without your keyboard displayed.

You can translate the whole verse with your MetaAI and give me different from what I show you

GothamCities:
Keep deceiving yourself. Your regrets in eternity is waiting if you reject the salvation of Christ today.

Bisāṭan' does not mean expanse. It's a deceitful translation. Imagine what you would have been saying if scientists have discovered that the earth was flat? You'll have been using this same verse to prove to us that your Allah is there true God. But you see, Allah didn't create the earth, so he thought it was like a carpet because the science of that time said so.

Perhaps you should translate بِسَاطًۭا bisatan with your arabic to English dictionary.
I elucidated what is meant in the verse, tell me do you prefer living on a steep and rough incline of a hill?

Your screenshot tells you bisatan has multiple possible translations depending on context but you rather turn of your reasoning.

GothamCities:
This liar wants to deceive us concerning the Arabic word "bisāṭan". Meta AI has exposed him!

I hope what people seem to engage in for fun will not have regretted effects in the everlasting.

You know that word meaning is not taken in isolation in the Quran.

The Arabic term "بِسَاطاً" (bisatan), which translates to "an expanse," typically conveys the idea of a surface that is spread out for accessibility and comfort. It describes the earth as being extended and suitable for human habitation, without necessarily suggesting a literal "flatness" in a geometric sense of the earth.

TenQ:
I gave examples of several kinds of sonship in the scripture of the Jews and Christians eg. The Angels, the Jews as a people, King David, Jesus and we Christians

1. Is Allah exactly like this?

2. Is Jesus the Son of God according to Allah and your Prophet?

3. Did Allah anywhere claim to be a Father to ANYONE in the Qur'an?


Of course, you know that no Jew or Christian say that God had a wife and gave birth to a child. Is this not biological relationship? No single Christian even heretical ones like Jehovah's witnesses don't believe such!

So, three questions for you

To start with Allah is beyond having children so you will not find an equivalent of this in Islam. Indeed Prophet Muhammad pbuh came to correct the excesses that had come from this concept.

Allah is indeed very close to his creation and cares for them even when they don't ask of him or misbehave.

And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein." (Quran 50:16)

And when My servants ask you concerning Me, indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me." (Quran 2:186)

Say, 'O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.'" (Quran 39:53)

I have addressed that Allah is beyond begeting any child and pointed you to the misinterpretation of symbolic/metaphorical statements that get you to saying Jesus is a literally begotten son of God. May Allah forbid such insults and abuse of those saying what they know not.

IslamVIRGINS:
What is occurring in teaching of all prophets Mr liar? Was Muhammad knew as allan's messenger in the time of Adam, Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc

Indeed Allah bestowed on mankind intellect but very few make good efforts to use it. Can you not understand that up until the time of Prophet Muhammad pbuh the testimony of faith that only one God exists did not include adding prophet Muhammad pbuh was his messanger?

IslamVIRGINS:
Another bursted lies, where is Adam here testifying? Is Adam the WE like allah the WE, OUR, US, etc

I should ask you if you think all the offspring of Adam up to beyond this day will testify to the oneness of Allah in his absence or without his knowledge.
Well you may want to say this is not explicitly stated so I ask you though a haughty response is what you will give. When Adam and Eve were asking for forgiveness for disobeying the command not to go to the tree, how did they ask? They made a prayer starting with Rabbana. Of course you wouldn't know the meaning.

They said (Adam and Eve): Our Lord (Rabbana), we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers.

Rabb denotes Lord, Sustainer, Cherisher, and Provider.

When a person uses the term Rabbana, it is an acknowledgement that Allah alone is the one who nurtures, sustains, and governs everything in existence. This is a key aspect of the oneness of Allah in His lordship.

IslamVIRGINS:
Buhahahaha Moses is now allah speaking in Quran 20:14. You are a wonderful liar!

12. I—I am your Lord. Take off your shoes. You are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.

13. I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed.

14. I—I am God. There is no God but I. So serve Me, and practice the prayer for My remembrance.




Is Torah the same quran? How is this verse proclamation of shahada or you don't know what shahada is again?

Of course you will not understand Allah narrating what happened with Moses from when he was called and his guidance of the Israelites to the one true God.

Is the Torah not one of the scripture given to prophets before Muhammad pbuh?
Quran 5:44
Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who had surrendered to Allah judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars....

IslamVIRGINS:
Is Ahmad shahada Jesus is proclaiming here right?

I hope you can discern who made this statement?
Quran 3:51
Verily, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. This is the Straight Path." This verse highlights Jesus' submission to the command of Allah and his acknowledgment of the oneness of God

IslamVIRGINS:
You are ashamed to quote the verse. Is help the same word with saving? It is just a pity putting yourself in this mess!

Good to see you made some effort to look up the verse. Do you understand it and how it relates to saving? Ok maybe saving from earthly challenge does not suffice you.

Quran 41:30
"Indeed, those who have said, 'Our Lord is Allah' and then remained steadfast – the angels will descend upon them, [saying], 'Do not fear and do not grieve but receive good tidings of Paradise, which you were promised.'"

IslamVIRGINS:
Is Musa guiding the people of Israel I asked from you or where he proclaimed shahada

Of course you emotions blind you from reading.

Ohyoudidnt:
Moses’s message centered on the fundamental aspect Shahada: monotheism, , which is the belief in the Oneness of Allah. According to the Qur'an, Musa's mission was to guide the Children of Israel back to the exclusive worship of Allah, without associating any partners with Him. This message resonates with the core of the Shahada, “There is no god but Allah.”

Do you think Moses will guide the Israelites to what he doesn't believe or testify to?
He is a noble man before God and man who is not a hypocrite.

IslamVIRGINS:
Declaring shahada made you a Muslim, you are trying avoiding my question because you have no answer from the quran to support yourself. If Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc are Muslims, why not show us where they declare their shahada as Muslims




Name a single person he saved with quran reference . If I want to burst your lies, I would have ask to quote where it is written in your quran that allah saved people in the time of Adam!



We are know that 72 virgins is your reward in sex house called jannah. You are only forcing salvation to allah as it is not written he saved anyone!



How does the verse answer my question?

IslamVIRGINS:
As silliness in comments as I know. What made you a Muslim if not shahada, can you worship or pray to allah without proclaming shahada?



As expected again. The questions says where is it written in Quran that Moses and Jesus declare shahada? You are there quoting Bible, is Bible your quran? Your stupidity is getting out of hand!




Is Musa guiding the people of Israel I asked from you or where he proclaimed shahada

The core message of the Shahada "There is no god but Allah" and subsequently "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" has been a recurring theme in the teachings of all prophets.

Adam testified to Allah being the one God.

And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam—from their loins—their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], 'Am I not your Lord?' They said, 'Yes, we have testified.' Lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection, 'Indeed, we were of this unaware.'" (Quran 7:172)


Moses conveyed the message Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance." (Quran 20:14)

Did the Torah not say God is one?
Abraham said: Indeed, I have turned my face toward He who created the heavens and the earth, inclining toward truth, and I am not of those who associate others with Allah." (Quran 6:79)

Jesus said And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad.'" (Quran 61:6)



Quran 9:40 shows Abu Bakr and Prophet Muhammad saved by Allah is an example

TenQ:
Khai!

Come and learn

1. Christians know the difference between the Foreknowledge of God and Destiny of God

2. Unlike Allah, YHWH is Omniscient meaning that He knows EVERYTHING in the Past, Present and Future

3. God YHWH unlike Allah is JUST, thus He will not destined you for Evil AND Punish you for being Evil.

There is ONLY one instance of Predestination in the Bible and it is connected to God's Foreknowledge

Rom 8:29:
"For whom He (God) did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

Those whom God Foreknew, He Predestined



Before you go at Tangent as Destiny in Islam has NOTHING to do with Foreknowledge of Allah
Why did Moses complain about Al-Khidr killing a young boy in the Qur'an ? And what was the reason behind it?

The Rom 8:29 only presents another aspectof God’s sovereign plan regarding salvation and predestination. You are repeatedly myopic in how your pick singular verses and disregard others.
You fail to see the affirmation of God’s active role in choosing and shaping believers according to His purposes.

Another folly, was Moses interaction with Dhul Kidr not to learn from one who knew more than him?
Moses's objection to Al-Khidr’s actions highlights not a rejection of predestination, but rather a prophet’s deep compassion and the inherent human sense of justice. This story reminds us that Allah’s wisdom is all-encompassing, encouraging believers to place their trust in His decisions, understanding that His decrees ultimately contribute to a greater good.

TenQ:
In the scriptures of the Jews and Christians,
God is a Father to the Angels
God is a Father to the Israel
God is a Father to the David
God is a Father to the Jesus
God is a Father to we Christians



1. Is Allah a Father a Father to Angels or Israel ot David or Jesus or Christians or Jews or Even you Muslims?


2. Is Jesus the Son of Allah are Christians Children of Allah are Muslims children of Allah?


You know that the answer to these two questions is a capital NO!



Thus, according to the Bible, Mohammed is an Antichrist

These are all depiction of relational intimacy rather than literal biological parentage. Kindly prove this wrong

TenQ:
Was honour according to the criteria for knowing who the Antichrist was in the Bible? No!
And I did NOT ask you any question about honour!

I asked you about the Fatherhood of God and the Sonship of Jesus Christ



The Jews did not have the concept of the Antichrist: only the Christians have it before the coming of Islam. Thus , you cannot redefine what you did not create.

Again, my questions were very clear


Question 1:
What does the word Antichrist mean?

1Jn 2:22:
"Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son. "

Test 1:
According to your Prophet Mohammed, is God "the Father of Jesus"?

Test 2:
According to your Prophet Mohammed, is Jesus "the Son of God"?


Too Bad, Mohammed is an Antichrist!

I addressed the fatherhood of God and sonshhip from the historical roots that got exaggerated changing symbolic/metaphorical to literal.

TenQ:
What your Prophet categorically said was that no one including BABIES can be guaranteed of paradise because Allah had decided who will be in paradise or hell fire even before the person was conceived.



Is the above UNTRUE of the meaning of what your prophet said?

In other words Allah has by his destiny appointed those he wants for either paradise or hell fire even before the person was conceived.

Don't you believe in the DESTINY of Allah again?

Sadly you are unable to provide this categorical statement. The prophet called to the uncertainty of predestination and or destiny.


You as a Christian are denying that your God knows the beginning and the end?
Isaiah 46:9-10
Remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done; saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure

Acts 15:18
Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world

Ephesians 1:11
Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan

Man doesn't know and makes conscious effort to be in the good of God by the grace of God.

TenQ:
Does he have to call himself the Messiah to be a fake Messiah?

All he needs to be is to QUALIFY as a Fake Messiah!

Is it TRUE that the Antichrist is alias of the fake Messiah?

What does the word Antichrist mean?

1Jn 2:22:
"Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son. "

Test 1:
According to your Prophet Mohammed, is God "the Father of Jesus"?

Test 2:
According to your Prophet Mohammed, is Jesus "the Son of God"?


To Bad, Mohammed is an Antichrist!

Too bad prophet Muhammad pbuh never denied Jesus (Isa a.s) as an honoured prophet of Allah nor did he deny Allah whom non is greater or can be compared to.

The fundamental problem you have us the exaggeration of the Jewish concept of the son/child of God from the metaphorical/symbolic meaning and making it literal.

Emancipate yourself from the prison cells you created

TenQ:
You obviously don't know that Mohammed is one of the major Antichrists to come.

He replaced God with himself as "The Praised One"


Tell me, who is the praised One other than God.

He also associated himself with your Allah as you cannot say the Shahada without Mohammed's name.

Mohammed is the Pseudo-Messiah , the False-Messiah

Provide just one evidence that prophet Muhammad pbuh likened himself or claimed to be the messiah

IslamVIRGINS:
Where is it written in Quran that Moses and Jesus declare shahada? This question shouldn't be too difficult for you to answer since they are Muslims according to your ignorance!


WHO ARE THE gods or God, who did allah saved, none of these you answered. What is the purpose of your existence as Muslim if answering question is haram to you?

Declaring Shahada which I hope you interpret correctly as testifying that there is only one indivisible God or living by that principle which is most important?

Does Allah not mention saving many people from the time of Adam to the time and beyond the revelation of the Quran?

For those who emigrated for the cause of Allah after they had been wronged, We will surely settle them in this world in a good place; but the reward of the Hereafter is greater, if only they could know." (Quran 16:41)

Hopefully you can comprehend the verse above.

TenQ:
You can argue with the mother of you Muslims and your prophet

Sahih Muslim 2662 c
'A'isha, the mother of the believers, said that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was called to lead the funeral prayer of a child of the Ansar. I said:
Allah's Messenger, there is happiness for this child who is a bird from the birds of Paradise for it committed no sin nor has he reached the age when one can commit sin. He said: 'A'isha, per adventure, it may be otherwise, because Allah created for Paradise those who are fit for it while they were yet in their father's loins and created for Hell those who are to go to Hell. He created them for Hell while they were yet in their father's loins.


So this is another Maudu Hadith!?

Please where in this hadith does the prophet categorically say the baby is going to hell?

He only says paradise or hell is fit for those that go into it and no where did he declare the baby is going to hell or can you clearly show this.

This hadith does not suggest that babies or innocent children can end up in Hell. Instead, it highlights that humans should not presume to know the eternal fates of others, as such decisions are based on Allah’s perfect knowledge and wisdom.

IslamVIRGINS:
I am expecting you to answer the questions involved!

With Quran reference, show where Moses declare shahada to himself or to his people before calling him a Muslim?


Before attributing salvation to your Islamic ideology, whom did allah saved in the quran, name the person with reference


WHO ARE THE MULTIPLE gods or Gods you're talking about?


Does this your statement make sense to you?

isn't it stated you don't worship another or any other God along with God?

Any other God along with God!

As limited in thinking as expected. Is the Shahada a case of mere pronunciation by the lips or depicted in actions.

Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One" (Deuteronomy 6:4)

When Moses came down from the mountain and saw the Israelites worshipping a moulded call why did he get angry? Is it not clear to you the Israelites had taken to worship another alongside God?

Moses’s message centered on the fundamental aspect Shahada: monotheism, , which is the belief in the Oneness of Allah. According to the Qur'an, Musa's mission was to guide the Children of Israel back to the exclusive worship of Allah, without associating any partners with Him. This message resonates with the core of the Shahada, “There is no god but Allah.”

You ask other questions you know very well yourself.

AntiChristian:
Show us where it is said that Gabriel's mouth was on her vulva? The Holy spirit in you is pathetic and dented! Can't the Angel blow where he wants to blow without even coming near Mary? Even from the context the Angel didn't come close to her! But as usual you'll always lie and put the lie on others!

Just as the holy spirit came upon Mary while the power of the most high overshadowed her to make her pregnant!

It's similar!

Luke 1:35 says, "And the angel answered her, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy — the Son of God'". Kindly explain how Mary's egg was fertilized after the coming of the holy spirit on her?

Don t mind them. Just as the antichrist will come and look like the Christ and they will believe he is the Christ. Also pretending to be the God they worship.

TenQ:
Repeating a lie a million times would NEVER make it the Truth.

The Islamic Jibril blew into Mary's Vulva!
WHat is his mouth doing on Mary's private part?

Don't forget that he looks perfectly human!

IslamVIRGINS:
Shahada also too is not a must right? With Quran reference, show where Moses declare shahada to himself or to his people before calling him a Muslim?

You are really trying to derail the thread but I won't allow you to do so before bringing Trinity into this discussions. Bible never said Trinity is the only way to salvation, Jesus never said it is when you believe in Trinity you will inherit the father's kingdom.

In John 14:6 Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

The thief that was crucified with Jesus believed in him as the son of God that is why he was saved! Trinity is not the way to salvation, don't involved trinitarian here, face the problem before you, why calling them Muslims when they didn't speak Arabic? DID JESUS TOO DECLARE SHAHADA? NO. Stop fooling yourself around by calling these people Muslims, my advice to you!

Before attributing salvation to your Islamic ideology, whom did allah saved in the quran, name the person with reference

Did Moses believe in multiple Gods/gods? What does Shahada mean to you? In the Torah Moses came down with isn't it stated you don't worship another or any other God along with God?

TenQ:
If a BABY would go to Hell Fire, why?
Is it not because of the destiny of Allah?


Islam can only fabricate lies to cover up for the illogicality of their theology

Another one of your misguided mischief.
According to authentic Islamic teachings, babies and young children who die before reaching the age of maturity are not held accountable for sins because they have not reached an age where they are capable of understanding and being responsible for their actions.

Is this another one of your Hatun type lies?

TenQ:
See how you exposed the illogicality in your religion again!
Does Destiny need to be fulfilled?

If it does, explain why your Prophet said that a BABY can be of the people of Hell Fire?


Note that you didn't answer any of my three questions.







See how you trap yourself.
You said: Is Eve an Angel?
So, you clearly recognized that the instruction of Allah was just for the Angels ALONE

Therefore both Eve and Iblis are exempt as they are not angels.




Will you apologise for saying that which you don't know about the fallen Angels?
2Pet 2:4:
"For God did not spare those Angels who sinned, but instead delivered them, as if dragged down by infernal ropes, into the torments of the underworld, to be reserved unto judgment."

Jud 1:6:
"And truly, the Angels, who did not keep to their first place, but instead abandoned their own domiciles, he has reserved with perpetual chains under darkness, unto the great day of judgment."


If Iblis and Eve were NOT angels, why was Iblis punished for doing nothing wrong?

My answer clearly shows how stupid and unworthy of answer your poorly thought our questions are.

Why shouldn't destiny be fulfilled? Don't you claim it was Isaac that was destined for a covenant and hold on to it?

Do you not also claim Jesus fulfils destiny to die for your sins?

Is your Jud 1:6 not in the light of Isaiah 14:12-15 and Ezekiel 28:12-17 which depict the fall of satan and his followers?

I see the Bible authors were not knowledgeable enough to distinguish between angels and Jinn.

TenQ:
Another problem with the theology of Islam.

1. Why do Angels need to record the deeds of humans when Allah is supposed to have recorded every deed in his book of destiny?
2. It seems that it is actually a fabrication to say that Allah is all-knowing when he still need his angels to record the deeds of men! Why do you think the angels are recording what Allah already knows? Are humans going to be judged by Allah or the Angels?
3. You forget that the Islamic Angels CANNOT enter into the Toilet: how would they record all the fornications and Adulteries commited in the Toilets all over the world?
Just three questions!

You see your problems? There is predestination but who fulfills the destiny; predestination or the individual predestined?
Unfortunately how angels record is another of the unseen things which you want to know despite being merely a created mortal human. The recording angels have a method, by Allah’s permission, to know and record a person's deeds without needing to be in every physical space a person occupies.

TenQ:
All dogs were told to bark but the cat did not bark, so the cat was flogged for disobeying a direct instruction.


Allah was very clear: the instruction was given to the angels to prostrate to Adam.

Tell me, did the Jinn (Iblis) or the Angels tell Allah that the humans Allah wanted to create will cause mischief?


Sorry, your theology is messed up. If Iblis was not an Angel, he cannot be guilty of the instruction he didn't violate.

Let me ask you,
Did Eve also prostrate to Adam or she wasn't created yet?


Quran 2:34
And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.

Allah said: he spoke to the Angels, he did not say he spoke to the Angels and Jinn!

Again you show your stupidity. Was Iblis banished for just refusing to bow before Adam indeed there were other acts of arrogance and disobedience.

Another stupid extension is Eve an angel too? Oh you are one of those that call women angels, I see your similarity with the ignorant pre-islamic Arabs.

Glad you are getting to comprehend your own theological confusion. I don't know why your Bible failed to clearly identity that there exist angels other than the ones referred to in Psalm 103:20-21: Bless the Lord, you His angels, who excel in strength, who do His word, heeding the voice of His word.

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:34) does not state that Iblis was an angel. Rather, the Qur'an makes it clear in other verses that Iblis was a jinn.

Who are the separate heedless angels?

TenQ:
You will notice that you refused to answer the questions presented to give your own

I said:
Were angels cast down to earth with Iblis according to your religion?

Can you say with your full chest that angels belong to the earth?


Tell me, who did Allah ask to prostrate to Adam, was it the Angels or the Jinn?

Your mischievous misconception of the nature of Angels and Demons is what is causing you pains now.

Surely you won't discern the answer. I pointed out in asking you if Iblis is an angel? Then was it immediately after the failure to bow that he was cast out?

Quran 18:50 clearly identifies Iblis not bowing and the reason why he didn't bow.

Do angels exist at the side of every human recording his or her deeds?

TenQ:
Were angels cast down to earth with Iblis according to your religion?

Can you say with your full chest that angels belong to the earth?

Angels are on earth performing various functions however they are amongst the things of the unseen.

You need to know is Iblis an angel or was he?
The nature of Jinn is definitely not as that of angels.

Hebrews 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Do these angels remain in heaven serving those who will inherit salvation?

Qasim6:
I think genesis 18:8 implies they did.

He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree.

Perhaps you are correct but we probably should ascertain that this wasn't an appearance.

The passage Genesis 18:1-8 does not conclusively demonstrate that angels consumed food in a typical manner; instead, it highlights a significant interaction between divine beings and humans through the act of hospitality.

Remember they have the interpretation that the Lord was in the presence of the two angels. We may consider the symbolic meaning when giving a hungry person food is symbolic to giving 'God' food.

Thanks for your view

Qasim6:
We don't have problem with an angelic being incarnating as a man.

According to our own understanding, Angel incarnating as a man does not mean the angel will drop-by at the nearest restaurant for a hot plate of Amala. Angel incarnating as a man simply means the angel appear outwardly as a man and remain an angel in essence such that the angel does not require food, oxygen etc to function effectively.

For example: the Qur'an narrative of when 3 angels on their way to Sodom and Gomorrah visited Abraham to give glad tidings of Isaac they refused to eat the food given to them whereas they ate the food in the Biblical narrative...

Qasim, their bible doesn't confirm that the angels ate the food that Abraham served them.

SIRTee15:
exactly what we talking about here.
A boy doesnt change to a girl simply because he looks like a girl.
Jubril didnt change to a man simply because he looks like a man
and God the Son didnt change to a man simply because he looks like a man.

The word became flesh doesnt mean the word changed to flesh.

Do u get it now. highlighted is very fundamental in the understanding of trinity.

Fundamentally unless you want to produce new findings. Jibril and other angels appear for limited time in whichever form unlike Jesus who went through the period of pregnancy and was born.

Jesus ate, drank, slept and performed human functions but Jibril didn't and generally angels neither eat nor drink.

The word of God, his command, created light and so many things yet these are not God or are they? These are manifestation of his command. Flesh is a result of God commanding it into existence.

Jubril didnt change to a man simply because he looks like a man is very correct but you and your partner appear to spin different with your misconception of appearance as a man.

SIRTee15:
are appearing angry or u have become angry with me
which one


sorry but cant make sense of above, I never used the word transform so dont know why u referencing it.


ok fine, lets go with your definition.
now if I took upon the emotion of anger. is that my whole emotion? dont i still have other internal emotions?
are u saying my whole emotion have changed to anger?
cant I be angry with someone and nice to another person at the same time.
can't I be evil and yet loving at the same time to different persons.
I can turn left and be very angry at a person, yet turn right next moment and be very nice to another person.
Doesn't that tell u that my personality remain the same, it hasn't changed to anger. I have only taking upon me the emotion of anger which is not my personality. My personality remain who I am which is what defines me, not whatever emotion I choose to manifest.


Guy rest. u guys dont have what it takes to debate trinity.
abi no be basic theology terminology dey cause trouble for here.
ordinary definition of incarnation, muslims cant define. Yet their koran has example of incarnation.

If i ask u to tell me the difference btw a being and a person, another wahala go start.
The one TenQ cause, we never end am.
But how can u understand Trinity if u dont know the difference btw being and person.




the only dance i want u to embrace is the gospel of christ.
That's the music I'm playing here.

Are emotions physical seen and able to eat, drink, sleep and others? Please do grant me this ability to physically see emotions and interact with them as I do with physical beings.

An emotion is intangible or isn't it?

SIRTee15:
Yes, if he appears like a girl, behaves like one and takes upon the physical identity of a girl. He has become a girl.
It's called social transitioning.

That doesn't mean his masculine nature has changed and that's doesn't mean he can't assume his full male identity.
Note I'm not taking of gender change here.


Now answer my question

What is the difference if I appear angry and when I become angry.
Tell me the difference.

Social transitioning doesn't eliminate the reality or does it? Will the 'social girl' experience the real girls monthly cycle too?

SIRTee15:
Are U ok? Did I mention Jubril changed his nature?
Where did I say Jubril changed his nature.
Pls if your English comprehension is poor, sort yourself out. Don't project that on me.

Incarnation doesn't mean change.
Change is substituting a substance for another. This is not incarnation.

I said Jubril became a man, I never said Jubril changed to a man

Appearance and become is the same thing within the context we talking about here.

When U take upon yourself another nature to appear as such. That's incarnation and U become the new nature.
That doesn't mean the original nature is gone...it's still intact.

If English hard, it's ok. But let me help U

Tell me the difference btw
I became angry and I appeared angry.

I want to know the difference.

Mind your temper .

A caterpillar transforms into a butterfly and is very different from a butterfly appearing as a butterfly.

Becoming angry is an internal emotion while appearing angry is a perception which can differ from the truth of emotion.

Part of your triune god incarnated without the rest isn't it and while in its incarnation still remained same with the other parts?

Keep spinning maybe the music will one day make me dance.

SIRTee15:

BECOMING A MAN IS THE SAME THING AS APPEARING AS A MAN.
BOTH DEFINES INCARNATION.

IF I BECOME NICE, DOES THAT MEAN I HAVE CHANGED TO NICE? DOES THAT MEAN MY NATURE IS NOW NICE?

IF I APPEAR DIRTY, IS NOT THE AS I BECAME DIRTY.

IF I BECOME ANGRY, IS IT NOT THE SAME THING AS APPEARING ANGRY.

MY FRIEND JUBRIL BECAME A MAN WHEN HE APPEARED TO MARY.


TenQ, thanks for bringing up that Jubril angle. Muslims are trapped in their own game.

So lame. So if a boy dresses up as a girl in a dress with wig and make up so he appears as a girl he has become a girl?

SIRTee15:
My friend, the appearance of a spiritual being as a man is called incarnation.

Incarnation mean to take upon the appearance of another nature/substance. It doesn't mean changing your nature.

Mary saw Jubril as man, spoke to her as a man.
Jubril visited Muhammed as a man, behaved as a man. Muhammed's wife Zainab saw Jubril and thought he was one of Muhammed's friend.
That's because Zainab saw man with human qualities

Incarnate doesn't mean change. Incarnate mean become....
The confusion here is equating change with become.

If I become angry. Does that mean I have changed to anger?
If I become dirty, does that mean I have changed to dirt.


Jubril became a Man, that's why he could function as a Man.

I see that the cause of your confusion is really deep.

The way Jibril manifested did not change his fundamental nature as an angel. It was a temporal appearance to fulfil the passage of a message.

Angels can assume different forms for specific missions and still remain essentially angels.


You are trying but have feelings become physical manifestation? Please describe how anger looks

SIRTee15:
The highlighted is based on what. based on a creed or the bible. Your definition of trinity is based on what? a creed?
I want to be sure u understand trinity b4 we debate.

Athanasian creed is not an early creed and the writer is unknown.

Athanasian creed is Latin document composed in the Western Church, the creed was unknown to the Eastern Church until the 12th century. Since the 17th century, scholars have generally agreed that the Athanasian Creed was not written by Athanasius (died 373) but was probably composed in southern France during the 5th to 6th century. Many authors have been suggested, but no definite conclusions have been reached. In 1940 the lost Excerpta of Vincent of Lérins (flourished 440) was discovered, and this work contains much of the language of the creed. Thus, either Vincent or an admirer of his has been considered the possible author.

The earliest known copy of the creed was included as a prefix to a collection of homilies by Caesarius of Arles (died 542). The creed’s influence seems to have been primarily in southern France and Spain in the 6th and 7th centuries.



With respect to the history of the origins of the Athanasian Creed, it is generally thought now that the creed was first written in the fifth century—though the seventh century is also given its due, since the creed does not show up in the annals of history until 633 at the fourth council of Toledo.It was written in Latin and not in Greek. If written in the fifth century, several possible authors have been mentioned because of the influence of their thought including Ambrose of Milan and Augustine of Hippo, but it likely was the French saint, Vincent of Lérins.

On what should the understanding of the trinity be based when it is not definitely stated in the Bible?

SIRTee15:
Finally U answered my question.
So U have admitted heavenly being can become humans.
So what's the noise about Jesus becoming a man?

As TenQ showed, even Jubril became a man when he appeared to Mary.

U can't function on earth as a spirit. U have to become a Man. That's the whole point of incarnation.

So AntiChristian logic he's trying to prove here is flawed by comparing characteristics of spirits to that of humans.

No you are misunderstanding my answer. That the angels were not in their heavenly nature doesn't equate to them becoming human.

Angel Jibril never became a man but took the appearance of a man towards enabling communication.

Are you trying to claim there are records of angel Jibril eating or doing manly activities or worse?

SIRTee15:
I don't need a creed to explain or believe in trinity. Church fathers were already talking about concept of trinity as far back as 50 AD because they saw it in the bible and Jesus spoke about it.

The word trinity is not in the bible but the concept is there.

Athanasian creed wasn't written in the 4th century. It was written around 6th century. People were already mentioning trinity in the 2nd century.
Therefore don't ask me to defend trinity in Athanasian creed that came 400 yrs after the word trinity was coined.

Let's go back to the bible, I'm here to defend the bible not some creed or what someone said.
What do U think is trinity as per the bible or U think there's no concept of trinity in the bible.
That's what I'm asking U.
Besides I'm asking u- Do U understand how the word GOD is used in the bible.

What exactly are you saying?

Did you not say you will rather take up the confusion about the father, son and holy spirit allegedly being coequal? Is that not the trinity?

Ascertain that the Athanasian creed wasn't written in the 4th century.