₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
So all these are in Aramaic shey?
Well Jesus learned the lingua franca of his time just as children of nowadays learned English so he spoke both his mother's tongue and the foreign language used around the Mediterranean Sea!

Seriously? What is the difference between Hebrew and Aramaic language? Do they share similar words?

SIRTee15:
already answered. check my response to antiChristian

Show me.

SIRTee15:
copy and paste will not safe u
show mw where the passage mention fallen angels married female humans.
all of a sudden u have gone into interpretation and exegesis, BUT when I did my own exegesis on the same passage, u went into mockery mode.
Hypocrisy is a big stigma amongst muslim apologetics.

show me with clear cut unambiguous evidence that sons of God in Genesis 6 are fallen angels, otherwise dont reply my text.

Copy and paste or not doesn't remove the facts. What did you ask specifically?

Was this not if the fallen angels performed their acts with the women in their heavenly state which I answered as they were no more in their heavenly state. Besides were the women in heaven when they bore children according to your book?

You are supposed to be a lot smarter than this why such disappointing answers?

SIRTee15:
Athanasian creed wasn't written in 325 AD, you confusing it with Nicene creed. The creed was likely written in the 6th century.

If your definition of Trinity is based on what's written 600 years after the bible was written, then I dont think u understand trinity really much.
Maybe we should start from the basic.

Do u have an understand of how the word GOD is used in the bible. n.b

325 and 373 but the truth about it is there.

Why do you need the creed to explain a trinity not explicitly mentioned in the Bible or should I say former scripture?

TenQ:
I have asked you a historical question and not a hypothetical question.

Where is the City?
From which city in history does the As-Samari come from at the time of Moses?

As the Israelites journeyed from Egypt where were they all coming from?

Of what use is your questioning when it is established that amongst the journeying Israelites someone referred to as As-samiri misled them into worshipping a molded calf.

As Samiri could be a personal name or nickname instead of an ethnic identity.

A character linked to specific mystical or esoteric practices (which could clarify his expertise in shaping the calf).

Or even a title rather than a name, suggesting a trait or role within the narrative.

I am aware of what you are trying to do 🤯

Did you attempt to edit my writing?

Ohyoudidnt:
I told you that these persons were mixed into the text to give it a false authenticity.
The statement attributed to Sufyan Ath-Thawri, which claims that "God Almighty sends water from beneath the Throne like the semen of men, and from it their flesh and bodies grow as the earth grows soil," does not seem to be a verified or widely recognized hadith in classical sources such as Sahih al-Bukhari or other major hadith collections. Additionally, it does not appear to align with mainstream Islamic eschatology or discussions on bodily resurrection, which are mainly based on clear Quranic verses and authentic hadiths.

Now reread your false exegesis and point that Qurtubi and Ibn Masood actually made the water from the throne like semen statement.

Even What is attributed to Sufyan Ath-Thawri is false. What is available of him on the internet is incorrect he contributed to Tafsir but not this semen lie.


The internet really can be a very dangerous place despite the ease it presents.

TenQ:
The truth is easily verified with questions.

From which city in history does the As-Samari come from at the time of Moses?

While the Israelites were in their exodus from Egypt they were they differentiated into cities of origin other than the tribes they descended from?


Relook at the translations you presented as I have

Allah responded, 'We have indeed tested your people in your absence, and the Samiri has led them astray.'
- Mustafa Khattab
He said: Lo! We have tried thy folk in thine absence, and As-Samiri hath misled them.
- Marmaduke Pickthall
(Allah) said: "We have tested thy people in thy absence: the Samiri has led them astray."
- Abdullah Yusuf Ali

It appears you give Picktall and Yusuf Ali your own translation even if Asad is in agreement with what you stated

TenQ:
The problem was that Mohammed the illiterate prophet was not aware that the Samaritans did not exist at the time. Unfortunately,
Several English translation disagree with your explanation

Qur'an 20:85-88 and Qur'an 20:95
Here are a few notable English translations that use "the Samaritan" for As-Samari in the Qur'an

1. Sahih International: "the Samaritan"
2. Pickthall: "the Samaritan"
3. Yusuf Ali: "the Samaritan"
4. Abdel Haleem: "the Samaritan"
5. Muhammad Asad: "the Samaritan"

Are they unknowledgeable in Islam?

Tafsir Qur'an 20.85 Jalal - Al-Jalalayn
But those he supposed [to be following him] had remained behind, for He, exalted be He, said, ‘Indeed We tried your people after you, that is, after your departure from them, and the Samaritan led them astray’, so they took to worshipping the [golden] calf.
https://quranx.com/tafsirs/20.85



You can see how you Muslims are struggling to cover up for the mistakes of Allah in your Qur'an.



The Word As-Samari is akin to saying words like "the Nigerian", or "the American" or "the Ghanian". The problem is that we know only one Samaria at the time of Mohammed and they are called As-Samari. Perhaps Allah wasn't aware that this verse will disturb you Muslims

You are the one struggling to hold on to your lies when shown the truth.

While translators such as Sahih International, Pickthall, and Yusuf Ali have referred to "Samaritan" based on traditional interpretations, this identification is not conclusive. Both classical and modern scholars acknowledge that as-Samiri might be an individual unrelated to the later Samaritan sect.

Ibn Kathir and al-Tabari viewed as-Samiri as a distinct figure in the narrative of the golden calf incident, without making a direct connection to the later Samaritan sect.

They both identity him as a misguided individual

TenQ:
Are you saying that Al-Qutubi and Ibn Masud are both liars?

It seems anything you don't like about Islam you reject.



Please , let's end this chat for now.
Have a nice day

I told you that these persons were mixed into the text to give it a false authenticity.
The statement attributed to Sufyan Ath-Thawri, which claims that "God Almighty sends water from beneath the Throne like the semen of men, and from it their flesh and bodies grow as the earth grows soil," does not seem to be a verified or widely recognized hadith in classical sources such as Sahih al-Bukhari or other major hadith collections. Additionally, it does not appear to align with mainstream Islamic eschatology or discussions on bodily resurrection, which are mainly based on clear Quranic verses and authentic hadiths.

Now reread your false exegesis and point that Qurtubi and Ibn Masood actually made the water from the throne like semen statement.

SIRTee15:
One and the same in what? U have debated Christians long enough.
U should do better than this...

Unusual that you don't understand me.

The idea that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are coequal is a cornerstone of Christian theology, especially in the context of the Trinity.

The Athanasian Creed, dating back to around A.D. 325, clearly expresses the doctrine of the Trinity. It states:
“We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Person: nor divided in Substance.”

Now there are questions from the son doing what he sees the father doing to the holy spirit being the messanger of one or both and not seen sending the other components of the trinity?

SIRTee15:
So according to the bible soul and spirit is the same? Is that what U saying ?

Hebrew 4.2
For the word of God is active and living, sharper than any 2 edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit.....

1 Thessalonians 5.23
And the very God of peace sanctify you through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:2 and 1 Thessalonians 5:23 present some description or understanding of human nature from a biblical viewpoint, yet they do not clearly differentiate between the soul and spirit. Instead, they emphasize various facets of human experience like faith in connection with divine revelation in Hebrews, and the comprehensive sanctification of spirit, soul, and body in Thessalonians without providing specific definitions or distinctions.

I will like you to give clear Biblical or God inspired distinction of the two.

SIRTee15:
ok since u want to be nicky picky. Prove to me that verse was talking about fallen angels in the first place. The verse mentioned sons of God having relations with daughters. where is your evidence of fallen angels in the verse.

Genesis 6.1
When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.


because according to Jesus, angels and humans cant have sexual relationship.
Matthew 22.30
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

That's why I kept asking you and AntiChristian if the the act in Genesis 6 was on earth or in heaven. Both of u failed to give an answer.

Genesis 6:2 can be understood in two main ways:

Sons of Seth: This interpretation suggests that the godly descendants of Seth married women who were not godly.
Fallen Angels: This view posits that spiritual beings interacted with human women.
Each interpretation has its strengths and weaknesses, but a significant number of scholars tend to favor the latter, as it has been more commonly accepted in Jewish and early Christian traditions.

Job 1:6 states, “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.”

Now tell is Satan regarded as a fallen angel in Christian or not?

When you consider the apparent contradiction between Matthew 22:30 and Genesis 6 you should note that though the former suggests angels do not engage in marriage or reproduction in their heavenly existence, fallen angels might have assumed physical forms or acted contrary to their divine nature when interacting with humans. Hence the ability to propagate with women. This implies a specific situation where these beings could transcend their inherent characteristics.

TenQ:
I quoted your sources, how does that become a lie?
Except you are admitting that Islamic scholars are chronic LIARS

As-Samari simply means the Samaritan.

Unfortunately, Samaria did not exist till approximately 1000 years after Moses.

Please let's call it a day sir!

The figure of As-Samari in Surah Taha is often misunderstood as a reference to a Samaritan, but it is more accurately seen as an individual who played a crucial role in the incident involving the golden calf. As-Samari, as described in the Quran, led the Israelites astray during Moses' absence on Mount Sinai (Ijaz Ahmad, 2024). His actions serve as a significant test of faith for the Israelites and highlight the consequences of straying from divine commandments. The narrative emphasizes not just an ethnic identity but also the moral and spiritual implications tied to his transgressions.

Critics argue that calling him "the Samaritan" is anachronistic since Samaria did not exist at that time. This claim has been countered by recognizing that "As-Samari" can be understood beyond geographical terms, focusing instead on his rebellious nature and actions against Moses' leadership. The Quranic account does not strictly follow Biblical narratives; thus, understanding As-Samari requires a contextual interpretation rather than a rigid historical alignment.

The punishment imposed on As-Samari further illustrates his role and its implications for faithfulness among believers. Verses 97-104 recount how he was condemned to isolation and faced severe consequences for leading others into sin (Tafseer Taha: Ayat 97-104 | In the Pursuit of Writing, 2013). This punishment reflects deeper theological themes regarding accountability and divine justice within Islamic teachings. Therefore, interpreting As-Samari solely through an ethnic lens overlooks the broader moral lessons embedded in this narrative.

TenQ:
I quoted your sources, how does that become a lie?
Except you are admitting that Islamic scholars are chronic LIARS

As-Samari simply means the Samaritan.

Unfortunately, Samaria did not exist till approximately 1000 years after Moses.

Please let's call it a day sir!

Too bad for the one that quotes sources that are not verified. Is it for the sake of reference regardless of whether what is referenced is true? Please there are records of statements made by liars and absolutely honest people why pick that of the liar?

TenQ:
Islamic clerics keep manufacturing new solutions to their dilemma!
It's okay!

Too bad!
The lies were told by Muslim scholars for Muslims (if indeed it's a lie)

But why would Muslim scholars tell such lies?


As-Samari means "the Samaritan" even many English translation translate it as such.
If Allah is the best speaker of Arabic, he shouldn't have problems communicating the Qur'an without errors and ambiguities


Please let's call it a day!
I wish you all the very best in life and your endeavours.

Like I said liars only like lies. All you have written attests to the fact that you rely on man's interpretation of what Allah says and not what Allah clearly says.

Small wonder the quarrels over pastors interpreting aspects of the Bible and Christianity differently.

Fortunately the Quran identified a person not a group or tribe that misled the Israelites

TenQ:
It's your claim: the same you do with the Hadiths of your prophet. Any hadith that is embarrassing you will claim that it is fraud.


I mean No, I won't.


Please let's call it a day!
I wish you all the very best in life and your endeavours.

The hadith isn't embarrassing but the lies attached to the hadith. We Muslims don't accept pseudepigrapha as you do with your Bible.

You won't because you detest the truth. Any small thing you find what to try and smear Islam with you run with without seeking if indeed it is true.

Truth be told liars only like lies.

TenQ:
No sir.

Too many errors:
#The sun setting in murky waters?
#Reproductive fluids coming from the rib cage
#Jews and Christians taking their Rabbis and Monks as Lord instead of Allah and the Messiah
#Maryn as sister of Aaron
#Historical Errors like the Samaritans at the time of Moses




Mohammed is the first Fabricator of Islam!

Of course your conception of grammar is insufficient.

The phrase "the sun sets into the lake" creates a vivid image of twilight descending upon the water. Does this mean the sun set in the lake?

The verse has been explained and the human misinterpretation addressed. The process of child birth is described. Does the womb not expand towards the ribcage during pregnancy?

We need not go far as the over veneration of mortal pastors by the church clearly shows how tradition has continued through the centuries

Honorary mention of Mary due to her piety like that of the priestly lineage of Aaron

Samiri refers to a specific person among the Israelites, rather than the Samaritan community that developed later. Al-Samiri is seen as an individual who led the Israelites astray during Musa’s absence. Islamic tradition and scholarship indicate that his name might have served as a title or identifier, rather than signifying the Samaritans as an ethnic or religious group.



You can only keep recycling the same set of questions despite extremely lengthy threads addressing them. Like inquiring about how the furnace heat a particular part of an ornament. Hopefully you wouldn't find yourself in the furnace before you are convinced.

TenQ:
I said NO!

What concerns me with them?

Deal with the questions before you

The first question wasn't yes or no. Or you are inspired to answer a different question?

TenQ:
Al-Qutubi and Ibn Masud are Christians from my village!?

The real Islam is rotten to the core

Of course you refuse to agree with the use of names in text which may not be appropriately located to give false credibility.

Definitely there may be things said by this renown men and many not said by them. Interpreting the presence of their name with regard to some things said doesn't mean they said everything you read.

Mixing falsehood with some truth doesn't confer total truth to the text.

TenQ:
Initially, you said I was telling lies.

Now, I am gathering false evidence!




Everything is from God but not the drum load of sperm under his throne!

Sorry

Ohyoudidnt:
That's you trying very hard to be good.

Can you do more by telling when Al-Mustadrak `ala al-Sahihayn by Al-Hakim al-Nisaburi was written?

After that you can explain why the author's criteria for authenticity does not align perfectly with the strict standards set by Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

You ignored the emboldened and I answered the following for you unless you can prove my answer wrong.

Does Jesus teach you that righteousness is castigating the faith of others or looking for wrong in them?

Remove the dirt in your eye first so you can see clearly

TenQ:
Initially, you said I was telling lies.

Now, I am gathering false evidence!




Everything is from God but not the drum load of sperm under his throne!

Sorry

What is the difference between false evidence and a lie?

You resisted bringing it up as you too know it is a lie then thought simply bringing it up will divert attention away from the lie?

Improve your intellect.

TenQ:
It takes a single error to prove that the Qur'an CANNOT be dictated by God because God CANNOT make ERRORS!


This is the Achilles heel of Islam: a religion of FABRICATIONS!

Fortunately the error you hold on to is not the Quran but an interpretation with explanation laced with the lies you like

TenQ:
So, it's no more a lie that I am speaking!?

Muslims will tell massive lies to protect the embarrassment and goofs of Allah, Mohammed and Islam..


Your conclusion is that BOTH Al-Qutubi and Ibn Masud conspired to fabricate LIES against Allah and Mohammed?

No whoever wrote this and included their names for the sake of authenticity is the liar who you flock with.

Explanations like this are not sufficient for you because you insist on finding errors?

As-Sa‘di may Allaah have mercy upon him commented on the verse saying, “Allah, the Exalted, informs us that He shall fold the heavens on the Day of Judgment – vast as they are – the way a scribe folds the sheets on which he is writing; the stars will be scattered and the sun and moon will be wrapped up. {As We began the first creation, We will repeat it.} This means that Allah will resurrect the creatures after their death, out of nothing, just as He created them out of nothing.” [Tafseer As-Sa‘di, p. 531]

Ibn Katheer may Allaah have mercy upon him wrote:

“Allah, the Exalted, says (what means): {The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a (written) sheet for the records.} [Quran 21:104] This will happen on the Day of Resurrection. This is the same meaning in the verse that reads: {They have not appraised Allah with true appraisal, while the earth entirely will be (within) His grip on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him.} [Quran 39:67] Ibn ‘Umar reported that the Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, said, ‘On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will grip the whole earth, and the heavens will be in His right hand.’ [Al-Bukhaari: Marfoo’ (attributed to the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ))] Ibn 'Abbaas said, ‘Allah will fold the seven heavens with all the creation in them and the seven earths with all the creation in them; He will fold all this in His right hand, and all of this will be the size of a mustard seed in His hand.’ [Ibn Abi Haatim] The verse goes on: {...like the folding of a (written) sheet for the records...} It was said that the (Arabic) word As-Sijill in the verse means a written sheet. It was also said that As-Sijill is an angel. However, the correct view, as narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas, is that As-Sijill refers to the scroll. This was also stated by Mujaahid, Qataadah, and others. This was the view favored by Ibn Jareer because this usage is well-known in the (Arabic) language. Based on the above, the meaning is, ‘The Day We will fold the heaven the way the scroll is rolled for the writings'... and Allah knows best.” [Mukhtasar Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 2/523]

TenQ:
No sir.
These are your religious books

What is Allah doing with a load of sperm?
Who ejaculated the sperm?

You equate the human written book to what is divinely revealed?

The Quran is the revelation not a collection of numerous writers.


No wonder you pretend to fear the Antichrist and label everything outside your fabrications as antichrist so only your effect at falsehood will be accepted.

Keep trying maybe you will end or give up

TenQ:
No sir.
These are your religious books

What is Allah doing with a load of sperm?
Who ejaculated the sperm?

The one inclined to falsehood will gather every false evidence to push through their lie.

Do you not accept that all that exists is by the leave/creation of God?

In discussing Quran 21:104, it's essential to recognize that the Quran serves as the primary source of guidance and authority in Islam, with its verses regarded as the direct words of Allah. Interpretations or commentaries on these verses should be approached carefully, grounded in a solid understanding of the Arabic language, the context, and the consensus among scholars.

TenQ:
Here is the second from ibn Masud

https://www.islamweb.net/ar/library/content/74/8397/
https://shamela.ws/book/8573/1123



Shameless Muslims: they will hide their shameful books under Arabic script thinking that we wouldn't find them to read

Ibn Taymiyyah, a notable medieval scholar frequently referenced, examined the authenticity of Al-Mustadrak.

1. Application of lenient grading standards.

Al-Hakim often graded certain narrations as sahih with a lenient approach. He accepted reports that did not entirely meet the strict criteria established by Bukhari and Muslim, resulting in the inclusion of weak (da'if) and even some fabricated (mawdu') hadiths.

2. Utilization of hadiths to bolster specific theological or jurisprudential views in matters of creed and Islamic law, which did not align with the standards of Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

3. Emphasis on caution, highlighting the necessity of comparing its narrations with other authoritative collections.

Al-Albani also noted that this book contained numerous weak or unreliable (potentially false) narrations. Many narrations considered Sahih in the book were actually weak or even fabricated.


You see how easily falsehood will pretend to be truth? Small wonder even your Bible warns you of false prophets even doing 'miracles' but are liars.

I guess this is what the Antichrist will employ and fool many before the world comes to an end.

Put a little truth but swarm with lies of great falsehood.

Try harder!

TenQ:
Here is the second from ibn Masud

https://www.islamweb.net/ar/library/content/74/8397/
https://shamela.ws/book/8573/1123



Shameless Muslims: they will hide their shameful books under Arabic script thinking that we wouldn't find them to read

That's you trying very hard to be good.

Can you do more by telling when Al-Mustadrak `ala al-Sahihayn by Al-Hakim al-Nisaburi was written?

After that you can explain why the author's criteria for authenticity does not align perfectly with the strict standards set by Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

Ohyoudidnt:
There is no genuine hadith that links Allah to a concept like a sperm bank

Who is more unjust than he who invents a lie about Allah or denies His signs? Indeed, the criminals will not succeed

Be always just. This is closest to being God fearing

SIRTee15:
Bible differentiates btw soul and spirit. According to the bible, the spirit of man return to God. It doesn't die.

Did the fallen angels procreate in heaven or on earth?

If it was on earth, that mean they incarnated into real human nature right?

So how's that different from ordinary men.

The question is can a spirit procreate, can a spirit die?

Even the Bible talks of Jesus being troubled in spirit and soul in different verses without clearly differentiating between them. John 12:27 and John 13:21

Does your Bible clearly tell you the Angels incarnated as man before procreating with women? This seems to be your exclusive explanation from the limited Bible of sirtee15. Where can I get a copy?

SIRTee15:
First let's start with definition of trinity.
What is your understanding of trinity according to Christians.

Do tell me all if you are sure there's no confusion of the understanding according to Christians

SIRTee15:
First let's start with definition of trinity.
What is your understanding of trinity according to Christians.

Outside what I have restated for you of Father, son and holy spirit being coequal, one and the same?

Take it that I don't know and convincingly tell me all there is to know unless you are reneging on your earlier statement.