₦airaland Forum

And by the way, if it is the "words" of Muhammad (AS), there would not be any need for Ahadith! Would there be any need? And finally, all that Muhammad (AS) have said would have been reported or written on the pages of Qur'an! Would there be a reason for him to separate the Qur'an from ahadith, considering that the ahadith were his expalnation of the verses of the Qur'an.

Why would he have scribes only for Qur'an, and never told insisted the same for "Ahadith?"

I guess the none muslims are finding ways to bring the Qur'an down to the level of their own book(s).
I see the christians of nairaland are at the front of this charge. Please people; understand is not like your book.

We do not have the statement of anyone in the Qur'an, except that Allah says that it be written down as a revelation!



The Bible (New Testament) did not stop after Jesus was lifted up by his "Lord God!" We continued to have postmortem Biblical writings. Thanks to the disciples, and the later time apostles who joined up. Well who can forget Paul, who used to be saul!


@Gamine: Who has proclaimed fatwa on your head? When and why and how? And by the way, anybody can proclaim anything
and be accepted by many people. The fact remains it may be completely wrong. Afterall, the Christians believe in ahuman god! Does it make it right?

Don't you see that you humanize God, when He is not? Don't you see that that you cheapen Him, and it is not necessary to do that? Your actions whereby you take God to be your father, a ghost and a human, clearly destroyed His Uniqueness, qualities that separate Him from His creations. This is completely wrong! Please think about.

You can not create your own image of what you think God Lord should be, or accept what others who are foundamentally wrong about Him say. You think those whom He has favored to know will just not at least tell you about it?

There is an ahadith that says when you see evil, if you can change it with your hand, you should do so. If you are weak to do so, then talk about it by the change with your mouth. If you are still unable to because you lack any strength, at least hate that evil with your heart!

And the mere hating it in your heart is the weakest of all effort! Gamine, can you at least hold the hate of cheapening God Lord who is One in your heart?

And by the way, if it is the "words" of Muhammad (AS), there would not be any need for Ahadith! Would there be any need? And finally, all that Muhammad (AS) have said would have been reported or written on the pages of Qur'an! Would there be a reason for him to separate the Qur'an from ahadith, considering that the ahadith were his expalnation of the verses of the Qur'an.

Why would he have scribes only for Qur'an, and never told insisted the same for "Ahadith?"

I guess the none muslims are finding ways to bring the Qur'an down to the level of their own book(s).
I see the christians of nairaland are at the front of this charge. Please people; understand is not like your book.

We do not have the statement of anyone in the Qur'an, except that Allah says that it be written down as a revelation!


@Gamine: Who has proclaimed fatwa on your head? When and why and how? And by the way, anybody can proclaim anything
and be accepted by many people. The fact remains it may be completely wrong. Afterall, the Christians believe in ahuman god! Does it make it right?

Don't you see that you humanize God, when He is not? Don't you see that that you cheapen Him, and it is not necessary to do that? Your actions whereby you take God to be your father, a ghost and a human, clearly destroyed His Uniqueness, qualities that separate Him from His creations. This is completely wrong! Please think about.

You can not create your own image of what you think God Lord should be, or accept what others who are foundamentally wrong about Him say. You think those whom He has favored to know will just not at least tell you about it?

There is an ahadith that says when you see evil, if you can change it with your hand, you should do so. If you are weak to do so, then talk about it by the change with your mouth. If you are still unable to because you lack any strength, at least hate that evil with your heart!

And the mere hating it in your heart is the weakest of all effort! Gamine, can you at least hate the concept of cheapening God Lord who is One in your heart?

The Bible (New Testament) did not stop after Jesus was lifted up by his "Lord God!" We continued to have postmortem Biblical writings. Thanks to the disciples, and the later time apostles who joined up. Well who can forget Paul, who used to be saul!

@ James: you may just be saying to this man, against all odds : I am a peaceful man! In the maintime he continues to butcher or violate your women, who were looking forward to your support. They must have thought that you had some backbones. They did not know that you are mere Jellyfish, until then!

@Gamine: Whats "stuffings?" For sure the "Gospel of Jesus," is not the Bible! Or is it?
Proof! Its not just enough to write without evidence(s) for the claims.
I think you believe that everything that comes out to advance your idea, regardless of
its source, even if it is senseless and untrue, it is to you the "TRUTH!"

Am I correct so far? I wonder whats true then when in the New Testament we have
verses argueing against other verses on a single topic. (Mark 12 verse 29 saying that Jesus declared that he is not Lord God which is One Lord), against the idea (since the word does not appear on any page of the many hundreds in the Bible) of Trinity!

@James: « #81 on: September 08, 2008, 06:20 PM »

Hi Everyone.
Do yurselves a world of good:read the satanic verses by Salman Rushdie and who is this Allah by G.J.O Moshay.
I play with all religion but Islam sets itself apart.it is no religion of peace as is widely being proclaimed by many muslims.

Is this the James, the disciple? Aren't you the "brother," of the christian lord?
You are still alive after all the centuries, that the christian "god" had passed on?
If the christians are smart you should have been their god, since you outlast their lord!
This is just to whet your appetite!

Now tell me where your train kinda got off from the track?
Please post the satanic verses, from the book of Salman Rushdie, and the elemental argument against the Qur'an from
G. J. O. Moshay. You can at least do us that favor, so as to be able to respond to your allegation, along the line of responding to the allegations of your two authors!

One thing you must know is that we do not believe in more than One God! And we are not playing with religion, like you have declared yourself to be! Its easy for you, since you do not believe in anything, and the Christian who believe in man god and other gods must be out to disprove the muslims in their believe in One single God, without any room for deviation!

Taking a God Lord, is not option with mankind! It is a commandment from the Lord God on mankind, humans! However, it is a choice which every human can accept: Those who accept willingly and worship Him alone without any partner (any partner I said, including the last of the messengers, Muhammad even been called "lord,' as some muslims are being reported to have by Pilgrim.1), will be rewarded with bliss of Paradise for their belief. InshaAllah.

However those who "play" with religion, the athiests, agnostics, buhddists, etc, and indeed the idolators, and the group that claim that God is a tribal Lord meant for them against other tribes and peoples (the gentals) and the group that takes a man god, a ghost god and father god; all of them with disbelief in the messengership of Muhammad (as), will be herded like cattle to water or pasture, to the punishment of hell!

And I am very sure of this! We see that your brand of peace lacks moderation. It seems to me that if your women folks are being abused by a violent man, you may just be saying to this man, against all odds , while your people are asking you to help, in order to keep your imagery and concept of peace, you will so nothing!

People like you are called emotionally unrealistic people! There is no humanity in you. Shame on you James! I want you to respond. Please the hordes of Christians who had contributed in the argument, against Babs787. The muslims are here now. This can be continued!

@Africankel: #14 on: September 14, 2008, 08:32 PM »

Olabowale Said "I wonder if the above is coming directly from God to the "inspired Bible writers"? Is that from Paul, or is it from Jesus, or is part of the word of God Almighty, who is the Creator, alone? You see that your hyposthesis is merely a bad one."

The bible says in 2 Timothy 3:16 - 17 that "All scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for intstruction in rightrousness: That the man (Child) of God may be throughly furnished unto all good works."[b][/b]
So my dear friend, it doesnt matter whose lips it comes from, God said it!

Now, blame it on the Biblical God! Thats a bad presidence. The good, the bad and the ugly. All of them, you are now ascribing to God! Na wa oh. No wonder you do not want take responsibility your your own deeds.

Its my way of showing love. Ibadan a so wipe; Eni ti oyinbo ba feron lo nti moole! Why because when the rest are arrested for their chaotic actions and punished severely, the one who was already in "atimole," will soon be released, without being in the group of state criminals!

@Cayon: The Bible is not needed. But you may by the end of the tour realise just that. And by the way, when the fast is over, I will come uptown. I used to live on Strivers row, in the days. Ask people who know the neighborhood. They will tell you.

I am not a partying kind. Its been many decades I haven't been to the type of party that you may be throwing. I have been into many food joints in that part of town. Even some hole in the wall. They do have good food. I am very conscious of what I eat these days. It has to be halal and then healthy.

Send me an email; aqeedahfirst@yahoo.com. You can also IM me. I will get back to you if you leave your schedule.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:14:14 PM
Oh, I get it; Its the inspiration at work. The same inspiration that inspired Mark 12 verse 29 which completely opposes verse 37! Thats interesting.

Simply quote the verses and sho where Jesus made your own denials. Thank you.

1) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mark, Chapter 12, Verse 29

2) [29] "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

From the above, we read that the writer was telling us what Jesus said to answer a question from a person in the
audience. Please tell me where Jesus, a Jew, an israelite, even for the fact that his mother is a Jewel is telling us
that he is not part of those who will have to take the Lord and God of israel not as his own One Lord? Am gonna be
generous to you and quote verse 37. I will like to compare it, since you brought it up!


a) 37 David himself calls him 'Lord.' How then can he be his son?"

Now tell me if the speaker in 37 is Jesus himself or somebody else? Please study the tone of speech here. Jesus
could not referring to himself as "calls him," and "can he!" Please pay attention.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:14:14 PM
And by the way, before Noah, which was before Abraham, I Olabowale was.

You're now better than Muhammad who never said such a thing, abi? You're quite a fellow, but sorry about forcing your own ideology to help cover the gaps in your theory.

I see that you understood Zero of Islam, in the time you were are Muslim! Muhammad (AS), the explainer of Qur'an in his hadith, say that when Allah created Adam, as a living man, He took from the body of Adam, the souls of his children! Please note that Eve was not yet created. Allah put all the souls in one assembly (Soul is equal to spirit of human, while still in heaven and not as human on eart, with flesh and bones), where He asked them; Am I not your Lord? And they all answered, yes You are our Lord! (This is where Fitra was attached to man, while still in spiritual rhelm!). Allah then says that you are now witnesses against yourself. In plain English; if you choose another 'lord,' other than Allah you are the transgressor who have served aforehand as witness against his/her own soul!

While mankind were still in this assembly, Adam was shown the souls of his children. He saw the soul of King David, who he gave 40 years out of his own life as a gift to be added to King David's life! And Eve was not created at that time. Is it therefore a thing too difficult to absorb that even before Eve was created from a pice of what is removed from Adam, I Olabowale, you Pilgrim.1 (kilo ruko Yoruba e?), all of us the sons and daughters of Adam, including yes, Jesus and Muhammad, were, before Noah or Abraham arrived on the surface of the earth?

I thought you will be engaging. Anyway, you try sha! At least you are making the christians kinda think that there is a dialogue going on.

« #143 on: Today at 10:16:07 AM »  
@Olabowale,
Sorry, sir - you did not quote Mark 12:29 - you dribbled round the quote and force-fit your own agenda into that verse. That verse never stated that Jesus said: "I am not God". In verse 37 of that same Mark 12, Jesus pointed out that even David referred to the Messiah (Christ) as "Lord" - you never refer to that verse and have always pretended ass if you believe in Mark 12 at all.

Since everyone an their grandpa wa called lord/god, in the bible, is it surprising that the Messiah of th Children of israel was called lord/god, too? You were quick to tell us what you think verse 37 means. Please write them, one after the other, if you cant do it side by side.

Remember when you were quoting Hatman decree of the Qur'an about the Warithduha, I went and read up on the verse and i remember quoting the Tafsir on it. I then asked people who are better speakers of Arabic language to tell me other words that could have replaced warithduha. They gave me plenty and one of them is rafah; high, which the engish word rafter was derived from. Please try to do the same. You do not need interpretation here. All you need to do is to write them out.

I submit to you, in the maintime that verse 29 of mark 12 simple says that Jesus, from his own admission, is not God or Lord, the Creator, the Cherisher! Now proof me wrong by merely writing dowm verse 29 down for everyone to read. And when you cant do it, I will be forced to do it for you.

I left Islam and am not returning. Is that a problem to you, personally?

I can imaging you pauting and stomping off. Yes, you are a daughter of some parents, still. Thats befitting.  

The so-called questioners have constantly demonstrated their hypocrisy to satisfy their denials. Has that changed?

They must have copied your modus operandi. And you have not changed!

Please tell me and the questioners, here and now; Is Jesus God?

Yes.

The burden of proof is upon you. Just saying yes, is a very foundamental way to deceive. Proof is needed!

John 10:30 - "I and my Father are one."

And in all your science, this should be interesting! Considering that the Bible reported taht he Yelled as Crying out on the Cross, thus, My God and not my father!

John 5:23 - "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

The tone of speech indicates somebody else, other than Jesus is giving this opinion. Oh, I get it; Its the inspiration at work. The same inspiration that inspired Mark 12 verse 29 which completely opposes verse 37! Thats interesting.

John 8:58 - "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

And it was a writer that is telling us here that Jesus said this verse. Please lets Jesus speak for himself! I remember a verse where it was reported that Jesus was crying to in tears and pleading to the ONE who could save him. Or something to that effect. Would God Almighty do any of these? The answer is no.

And by the way, before Noah, which was before Abraham, I Olabowale was. It simply means that before Jesus on earth I Olabowale was. Before Adam on earth, I Olabowale was. But none of us is before, but until after Adam became a human being! That means all humans, children of Adam were all together, all at once, before Abraham.

Could Muhammad have ever imagined to say the same things for himself?

The follower of Muhammad (AS), Olabowale, said that he was before Adam came on the earth. Okay, even before his wife Eve was created from the bent rib! That was sometime before they listened to the suggestion of satan! The reason they were sent out of the garden.



@Shawn123: I am not castigating any religion of anyone. I can not do that because I do have associates who are Christians, Jews and others. The woman that bore me was once a christian. And the mother of my sons is a Christian. I am just making factual statements. Hopefully, somebody will read it. It may not enter the heart of the primary audience, but somebody else, sometimes in the future!

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 09:48:30 AM
And please make sure that you can disect and render all evidential verses to say he is not God, useless. Try Mark 12 Verse 29, for size!

Have you seen Mark 12:37?

I asked for Mark 12 verse 29! At lease write it out. Then write Mark 12 Verse 37. You can then use it to nullify 29! I wanna read your renedring irrelevant the "words" of God! t least part of it by another part! Thats what you call the bible, word of god, aint it?

@Deepzone: « #10 on: Yesterday at 02:10:46 PM »

Quote
Circumcision, can only be done on 100% human. I was also circumcised and am 100% human. We see that Jesus was circumcised. But he was to be called Emmanuel and not Jesus! And no time he was called Emmanuel. Deceit started right from the bat!




@Deepzone: Good question. But bad answers from Biblical pundit(s)! Begging the question can't possible satisfy an enquiring mind, which wishes to know the truth.


Ohhh he was called Emmanuel.

When was he called Emmanuel? As a child or as a preacher? Proof, please.




@pilgrim.1 (f): « #11 on: Yesterday at 05:22:47 PM »

Quote from: olabowale on Yesterday at 01:08:24 PM
The reality is different, because human knowledge and the design of nature as god has made to work so that human mind can appreciate it, are completely against this silly concept!

Amen. I left Islam, will never come back - and your attitude is strongly confirming why that was the very best choice I made.

Oo ni nkon she tele ni! Ojo ro lo nlo! I wonder what I said that got you bent out of shape this much? You dislike hearing the truth. Its obvious.

For all your old age, you're the only stranger to simple facts presented earlier about Muslims calling Muhammad "Lord"? What has your old age got to do with that?

Correction: me and then all the muslims on nairaland are strangers to simple facts presented by you! Now who is not telling the truth. Please present you "lord," in arabic language. I wanna read it! You can't. I know! Its only in English. As usual, just like the Bible. In every language, except the original of revelation!

And i went to our like, I did not see anything; not in arabic. Please provide your proof in Arabic. Every muslim calls Jesus master, in the same manner that Muhammad is called master! Neither is lord, god or son of anything, except their parents! You took the wrong islam and its clear that you dis not practice moderation. No wonder you left islam.

And jesus cried "my God, my God, !" And he did not cry, ever, or wept or supplicated, "my father, , !" Are you now daughter of mary and now a sister of Jesus?

Olorun in Yoruba means God. Oluwa may mean Lord or lord. The lord here is like the higher parliamentary body of England, the house of lords. These English politicians are not truly Lord, like God!

The same gods title or lords title apply to the children of israel. The Christians who called themselves children of God may not mean that their father is God. But called us to tell them that their mere saying it, is a terrible thing. The way He God talks about that terrible notion that Jesus is son or a third of God!

I say the above to illustrate that Pilgrim.1, is playing fast and loose with information, which she is providing in English. If she ever have the strenth to provide it in Arabic, which I read, and many Muslims on Nairaland even read better than me, we will find out it is not lord "Rabb," but master "Sayidina," that was used! But she wants us to believe otherwise so that she can better foster he webmasters, masterful deceit!

I remember I caustioned her even in am earlier post whereby she was not writing lord anymore, but Lord! You see the subtle process of deceit in play here?

Reindeer: Pilgrim.1 is using "seyidina," which means master (used for all prophets, companions of all messengers and people who possess good or significant knowledge), as lord. This is wrong and deceitful. Lord is Rabb, in Arabic. It is not Seyidina, which is an arabic word to mean master!

I believe as I read the darul of the sufi group that she posted up, above, I understand that she had deceitfully avoided to post the Arabic text! Which is Allahumma selli ala seyidina Muhammad, ! How can she explain that immediately that she claimed that the sufi used lord for Muhammad, the said, "Slave or Servant," but definitely Messenger/prophet of God?! You see the the deceitfulness?

@Davidylan: Don't make me laugh about your Child of God title. The last I check, God is not from Omo Obanta. Thats the name they call Ijebu Ode people. Your father is from Ijebu Ode. Aint he? Evidently he is not God, otherwise mom would have told you that look, david, your Dad, the ijebu Ode man is God and I your mother is the wife of god! Did you ever heard that from mom? If not, your calling yourself child of God, is a fantstic tale of utterly nonsense.

And I waited, and waited throughout the weekend, for nothing from you. God son who lies. LOL, Wayo man!

reindeer:« #88 on: Today at 01:25:12 AM »  

Alhaji olabolwale
please watch your responses to this sister here
you've been trumping the age card so many times but we all know that hasnt got anything to do with the substance of the discourse.
Please lets have your usual researched stuffs, you seem to be getting really 'iffy' on this thread as if she's throwing you off balance.
Answer her ok?
there are lots of us keenly learning from this thread and we hope to see where this goes ok?

The only reason that I called her to the difference between her age and mine, is very simple; she had alluded earlier in one of the threads that she has been there (in Islam) and I am yet to get to "there!" Whatever there means. Thats why I had to remind her that I have muslim all my life, and she is even less 50% of what I have spent yet.

And her proof of muslims calling Muhammad lord, may be arabic sayidina, which means master. master is not lord, but Rabb is. Thats why you hear people say Rabbina or Rabbana to Allah alone, and seyidina to all persons in higher religious value. But Sayidina is used for Allah, alone in Salah. And no one else. So if I am  praying, for example in prostration if I mention Muhammad name , it will simply Muhammad and not seyidina. But when I say Seyidina, it will be Allah, alone.

I am not "iffy," in my rwesponse to her. I am calling her on issue, and she has proven nothing but just empty accusations. When i make a statement about Christianity, everyone is already aware that it is in the Bible already. Let me know where a document that I consider a lie is from Islamic sources; Seyidina Muhammad can not mean lord Muhammad!

@A_K_O: « #135 on: September 12, 2008, 10:43 PM »

This topic has been thrashed time and time again.

Who is Jesus Christ?

Is Jesus God?

Is Jesus God

Is Jesus God?

Post-is Jesus Really God?


ETC

In your mind, you might have thrashed it. But the people who continued to ask you the questions believe you have not done any good work, to satisfy their question? Please tell me and the questioners, here and now; Is Jesus God? Please give evidential supports. From Jesus himself. And please make sure that you can disect and render all evidential verses to say he is not God, useless. Try Mark 12 Verse 29, for size!

I want you to work hard at your presentation.

« #137 on: Today at 09:22:29 AM »
Quote from: shawn123 on Today at 09:12:40 AM
FOR me i would believe you if you gave me something in Jesus's own word saying i am God thats all,

Is there anything in Jesus' own word saying: "I am not God"?

Yes, there are. I will just quote Mark 12 verse 29. In this verse Jesus clearly without any ambiguity that he and his audinece/listeners have the same Lord, God is One (Single) Lord! This clearly tells us that Jesus declared to people; Look am not Lord or god. Infact you and I have the same entity, our Lord and God who is One God and not more than just single One!

Quote from: shawn123 on Today at 09:12:40 AM
So don't blame me if i don't believe in Johns words.

Don't blame me for not believing in Muhammad's words.

In America we call a person who believed, support or a proponent of an idea, and later changed to be disbeliever, a none supprter or an opposition of that idea, a Flipflpper. In this case you are what the yorubas, in my days called Ropopo! It means that you are just a person who goes with the popular idea. Thats why you now disbelieve in Muhammad. But once, you used to believe in him. But of course, you probably believe that seyidina (master), means rabb (lord)!

@Virgo83: « #49 on: Yesterday at 03:14:59 AM »

@ Mukina2
You're asking me fear Allah (S.W.T) Haa Ha Ha Ha
This I'll implore you to do. , Fear Allah (S.W.T). For if you did fear Him, you'll have to obey Him.
What we have here, 'I mean my call is purely Shariah, Allah's Devine Law.

Shelk, how do you throw the weight of responsibility of Nairaland's owner, Mr. Oluwaseun Osewa, on Mukina2? Finally, is there never a time in Islam, that a woman must have held a leadership or position of authority over men? Say our mothers, the wives (RA) of our beloved Prophet (AS)?

Sheik, in your effort to teach us, please teach us wholesomely true knowledge. A person can not become a subordinate in her own business just because she a woman who employs men? How about Seun who is not a musliml; does he have a right to employ who he wants? Is he bounded by Sharia? Please fear Allah. I also ask myself to fear Allah, too.

Again, the simple point was that your assertion earlier that Muslims never refer to Muhammad as "Lord" was contrary to the facts on ground. They have been doing so - even while I was still a muslimah, I knew Imams who unashamedly did that very thing; and that was why I was concerned as to why Muslims are accusing Christians with restlessness for the very same things that is widley practised in many mosques and Muslim councils.

How old are you now? And such a tender age, you have experienced what majority of the muslims have never experienced. I have a man who is 96 in Morocco. The father of a friend. This man had never heart anyone calling Muhammad (AS), lord! No wonder yo left islam, because you were with the wrong company. In all my years in Nigeria annd other places, including America, I have not heard anyone called Muhammad (AS) their lord. There master, yes. Every Prophet and knowledgeable person is called Master (sayidina). The Only True master is God. And that is why in Salah you can not call anyone master, except the True Master, Allah!

I am almost thinking that your dubious material where you claim that a muslim called Muhammad (AS) lord is that they may have referred to him as sayidina, and your magicians, the christians whom you copied the material from their website changed sayidina (master) to lord (rabb)! Please show us the arabic text! I read Arabic and you dont! There are many muslims on Nairaland who can read arabic better than me. We want you to us the arabic text, now and not some far away date and time! (And you are using "L" in the lord! I guess you are trying to see if it will stick? No. It will not stick!).

Interestingly that are even quoting yourself! Relax, girl. You seem to hate truth and you are living in fantasy. Well, I will act as a reality check for you. When we are in a world of fantasy, its easy to say or accept that a material is 100% each of two or more completely different things, all at one and the same place and time.

The reality is different, because human knowledge and the design of nature as god has made to work so that human mind can appreciate it, are completely against this silly concept!

Longing for Allah!

My Full Support!

Allah's Love Greatest!

No weak Lover

Lover I need!

The best Loves!

Thats real Love.