@Toba and the Christian apologists; Allah Himself shall reveal your lies. One lie is revealed about the "peaceful Christianity" below in the Rifle of Jesus "killing Muslisms" the enemies of "Jesus"! Sick people you christians are. Even dogs are shy and contrived when caught in evil deeds, but Christians dont feel remorseful. The Nigerian Christians of Nairaland take the cake; Davidylan, can you feel me?

Rifle Sites And Jesus
09:29 - Yesterday youtube.com

SisterSunnShine talks about the ABC news investigation of Trijicon, a Michigan company which engraves Bible verse references on it's Advanced Combat Optical Guides, called the , youtube.com
Watch this video on youtube.com
This video cannot be played here. Watch it on youtube.com.

@Jairzinho: « #4 on: January 16, 2010, 12:34 PM »

Quote from: olabowale on January 15, 2010, 09:17 PM
Umar ibn Khattab (RA) very senior to Imam AbdulWahhab was questioned, debated, etc by those who were in his generation (RA, ra). So AbdulWahhab was not the answer to all the questions or issues of Islam. If I disagree with him, I will not necessarily go to hellfire, unlike if I do with my beloved Messenger, leader of mankind (AS). Tis is the reason that those who demeaned him shall go directly to hellfire, barring none!

Alhaji,isn't this rather presumptuous, sir ?? Hellfire ?? Na you build am?
You don reach there come back before ?
Just as you believe ,others believe.
The reward/or punishment for belief or disbelief. . . please leave to The Maker Himself.

As for Hellfire, it is already in existence. Quran supports its existence. Hadith supports its existence. Read Surah Najm, as Allah says of Muhammad (AS), the Messenger saw what he saw, and there is no doubt about what he saw. So even though I was not there before and now back, but Muhammad, my leader who I follow, went to heavens, saw Paradise and Hell among other things. Should I now deny what he saw, and accept your admonishment, above which will be tantamous to disbelief! Should I disbelief after I have beliefed knowing the hypocrasy of such an action, inwardly or outwardly, conscious and sure that there is a horrible reward awaiting disbelievers in Hell? I am standing firm on truth. Even when it is something that is against me.

@Jairzinho: #132 on: January 12, 2010, 07:39 AM »

Quote from: olabowale on January 12, 2010, 01:04 AM
Allah says in the Quran that "Sunnatillahi Tabtila. Sunnatillahi Tahwillah. In both cases what is expressed is that Allah's way is Unchanging. So when Allah says "Kataman Anbiyya"; seal of prophethood, then He will not renage on His statement. When Allah says that His Favor on mankind is made complete on Quran, all of these are saying that there is no changing, and there will never be any more Messenger, Prophet, Religion, Spiritual Book, or any Guidance from Him, after what is given to Muhammad (AS). "Inna tukliful mi'ad: Allah will never renage on His Promise".

[Qu’ran 3:6] He is the One who shapes you in the wombs as He wills. There is no other god besides Him; the Almighty, Most Wise.
[Qu’ran 3:20] If they argue with you, then say, "I have simply submitted myself to GOD; I and those who follow me." You shall proclaim to those who received the scripture, as well as those who did not, "Would you submit?" If they submit, then they have been guided, but if they turn away, your sole mission is to deliver this message. GOD is Seer of all people.
[72:25] Say(O muhammad), "I do not know if what is promised to you will happen soon, or if my Lord will delay it for awhile."
[72:26] He is the Knower of the future; He does not reveal the future to anyone.
[72:27] Only to a messenger that He chooses, does He reveal from the past and the future

So focus is on God , He can do as he pleases, you cannot contain or predict God ,my friend, so saying categorically that GOD ALMIGHTY CANNOT DO something is tantamount to disbelief !

I did not say that God Almighty Allah cant do something, except that I say that He will not do what is not fitting to His Majesty. Eg becoming a person, eating, sleeping, crying, begging, praying, etc just like you and I and Jesus! To support my argument, Allah Himself said in Surah Maryam, verses 81 to 95 talk about the Uniqueness of God as not being a Partner with any 'god" be it in heavens, inbetween it and the earth or the earth, and clearly indicates that He does not have a son, or has ever at anytime come down on earth, as the christian for starter claims by his Trinitarian Logic, etc;

19:81 And they have taken besides Allah [false] deities that they would be for them [a source of] honor.
19:82 No! Those "gods" will deny their worship of them and will be against them opponents [on the Day of Judgement].
19:83 Do you not see that We have sent the devils upon the disbelievers, inciting them to [evil] with [constant] incitement?
19:84 So be not impatient over them. We only count out to them a [limited] number.
19:85 On the Day We will gather the righteous to the Most Merciful as a delegation
19:86 And will drive the criminals to Hell in thirst
19:87 None will have [power of] intercession except he who had taken from the Most Merciful a covenant.
19:88 And they say, "The Most Merciful has taken [for Himself] a son."
19:89 You have done an atrocious thing.
19:90 The heavens almost rupture therefrom and the earth splits open and the mountains collapse in devastation
19:91 That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son.
19:92 And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son.
19:93 There is no one in the heavens and earth but that he comes to the Most Merciful as a servant.
19:94 He has enumerated them and counted them a [full] counting.
19:95 And all of them are coming to Him on the Day of Resurrection alone.

Quote from: olabowale on January 12, 2010, 01:04 AM
Never a single time, from Allah in the Quran and or Muhammad (AS) from Hadith mentioned that the Gospel, or earlier Books be read by Muslims of Muhammad. All that was said is "belief" in them, which goes to that point in time that the Book(s) was/were with the Messenger, Prophet before corruptions entered it/them; the many writers who changed and entered what they wanted, including all the extra entries; Acts of Apostles, The Epistles, others on the Revelations and even the others that the Catholic/orthodox has/have and the Protestants don’t have them!

Haba,you are contradicting yourself. . . how will you believe w/out first knowing what is in the gospels (Injil )

I have not contradicted myself, since I believe in the Unseed; God, all that are in the heavens including angels; Jibril, Mikail (AS) for example!

Qu’ran 2.121": Those to whom We have given the Book read it as it ought to be read. These believe in it; and whoever disbelieves in it, these it is that are the losers.

There is no proof that the Books given to Musa (Torah), Daud (Sabur) and Isa bin Maryam (Injil) are still in the pure state that they were revealed to the Messengers and or Prophets mentioned above, but quite the opposite since Allah says that they have written their own desires into it (the Book; now the Torah and Mishnash, etc of the Jews and/or the Bible of the Christians) saying this new product is from Allah, selling the Statement of Allah for a misely price! We must not forget to consider the fact that even in the Injil of today, we see the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles and the Revelations and indeed the "what Paul said of his own personal opinions" show corruptions in full force!
2.59; But those who were unjust changed it for a saying other than that which had been spoken to them, so We sent upon those who were unjust a pestilence from heaven, because they transgressed
2.79: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby
2:140; Nay! do you say that Ibrahim and Ismail and Yaqoub and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Are you better knowing or Allah? And who is more unjust than he who conceals a testimony that he has from Allah? And Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.
3:77-79 (As for) those who take a small price for the covenant of Allah and their own oaths-- surely they shall have no portion in the hereafter, and Allah will not speak to them, nor will He look upon them on the day of resurrection nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful chastisement. Most surely there is a party amongst those who distort the Book with their tongue that you may consider it to be (a part) of the Book, and they say, It is from Allah, while it is not from Allah, and they tell a lie against Allah whilst they know. It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophethood, then he should say to men: Be my servants rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be worshipers of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading (it yourselves).
3:187 And when Allah made a covenant with those who were given the Book: You shall certainly make it known to men and you shall not hide it; but they cast it behind their backs and took a small price for it; so evil is that which they buy.

[Qu’ran 3:3] He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel

First the Torah and or the Injil being referred are the Once upon a time when the Torah was in the hands of Prophet Musa (AS) who received it. But what happened when he died, and sometimes before Jesus came, it was part truth part personal desire. When we look at what was revealed to Isa bin Maryam, we do see that Act and Books of revelations and Epistles were not revealed to him, and Allah did not revealed anything to "Paul who used to be Saul"! This is enough to proof that what you have now is different from what was revealed in their prestined state, once upon a time!

Like I have stated before, you like to quote parts of the gospel that you feel suits your arguments e.g – Prophet Mohamed was the one being referred to as the Comforter by Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in John 14:16,however any area where Jesus is proclaim as the saviour you discountenance e.g John 14:6. So make up your mind,if you’re going to accept parts of the Bible ,accept in all or reject it in its entirety.

What I quote are what Quran confirms! I think that you know that you could mask lies with some lies, forcing the gullible with the "all or nothing stuff"! That will not work with us in Islam!

Quote from: olabowale on January 12, 2010, 01:04 AM
I know the majority of Jews dont believe in Jesus. Infact no one of the Jews I know believe in Jesus. No Jews in the governance of Israel believe in Jesus, he will not be allowed to sit in there.

Olabowale, I know you to be a good researcher, please google Messianic Jews, before making your flawed assumptions. This finality in making definitive statements is where I have my grouse,don’t be quick to doubt ,open your mind bro !

My mind is opened. I have lived with orthodox jews before. I have an Israeli Jew as friend, go out to dinner with him. Many of my corporate attorneys including the in-house are Jews. I lived with a Jew who practiced Buhhdism before. Are the Buhhdist Jews the typical Jews in their religious inclinations? Of course not! Less than two weeks ago, CNN was showing a heart Surgeon in Jaffa sewing up stuffed up pig for oven roasting. Then you see the elites, the socialites of Israel in the dining of that horrible meal! Will these people be the expected Jews? This is similar to the Messianic Jews, and am comfortable in saying that this was not the reason that Yahweh/Jehovah (no trinity under Moses, am sure) liberated them from the bondage of Egyptian slavery!

Quote from: olabowale on January 12, 2010, 01:04 AM

You are correct here. Especially its all acceptable in Christendom.

So also with islam.

?

Quote from: olabowale on January 12, 2010, 01:04 AM
Burying is not cultural, but we know many Quranic verses (Surah Azhab, even Imran), ahadith that support immediate burial, and discourage any unnecessary delay. Mourning is limited and prolonging the burial will encourage prolonged mourning. Covering are expressed in Surah Azhab and Surah Muminu.

But is this a commandment from God?

If there was anyone worthy of being kept as long as possible for burial after death it would have been Muhammad (AS). Allah says obey Allah and obey Rasul. Allah says if you love Me follow Muhammad. Allah says take whatever Muhammad gives you and reject what ever he forbids. Allah says you have a perfect example in this Messenger. If Muhammad demanded and stated that a body is buried as quickly as possible; if he is a true believer he wishes to get to his position, but if he is a disbeliever, an evil soul you will rid evil soul off your neck! There is no place except in special circumsances where foul play is suspected demanding investigation to the truth, as in the case of the dead soul in Surah Baqarah, one of the reasons for the name of that verse as such, that burial of dead body should be delayed.

[/quote]Islamic scholars have determined immediate burial was done(during the times of HPM) because of the heat in the desert & bodies rotting away ,it wasn’t a direction from God. An Arab desert contingency has found its way into ‘pristine Islam’. Similarly women covering faces was primarily to prevent sand from getting into their faces- another cultural attribute linked with Islam.[quote]

Your assetion in both case is opposite what Quran said! What a scholar says, if it is different from what Muhammad said, guess what, even if the scholar come to know what Muhammd said, he must accept it over his own statement for Muhammad is the Prophet, and the scholar is not! I will not follow a person who is not following Muhammad (AS)! The culture of Islam is completely differnt from the culture of the arabs. You hear it from me and you can take it to the bank like the local dinar or dihram. You need to read Surah Muminu and Ahzah where the issue of Hijab is mentioned before you make such an untrue statement!

So just as the sword verse & marrying 4 wives should be taken in CONTEXT, a lot of what could be termed ‘pristine Islam’ are being taken out of context.

Look InshaAllah, whoever marries 4 wives, I support him, since we see even now lesbianizm has crept into my beloved Nigeria. I know about america, already and its not always because the woman is born gay, but scarcity of male suitors is not an uncommon factor. You know it, and I know it, too!

« #8 on: Yesterday at 10:37:22 PM »  
Quote
Php 2:4  Let each of you esteem and look upon and be concerned for not [merely] his own interests, but also each for the interests of others.
Php 2:5  Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus: [Let Him be your example in humility:]
Php 2:6  Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained,
Php 2:7  But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.

It is disgenius of the writer(s) of the above to suddenly string Jesus to become God, when he clearly stated that he is Jesus whom "YOU" sent. He see that there were other earlier prophets, all of then humans who did as much if not more of miracles than what Jesus ever did. In all of that no one ever take them to be equal to the Creator! Is there anyone but the "Creator"?

Prolegomena:
If we can agree that Earth is a temporal place with respect to Heaven, and mankind is utterly finite with respect to God, then we see that every occurrence on earth is very much like the happenings in a book or a movie: pre-determined by the author or script-wright, but each character in the book/movie is oblivious of that fact.

Now, let us consider an autobiography or self-directed documentary, in which the author himself features. Truly, the finality of the matter is known and determined by this author in reality, but that does not prevent the reader / observer from having a thumping heart, or the other story-characters from frenzied actions, as the excitement in the story grows.

In light of this, I will start by saying that this side of existence is relatively virtual, with respect to eternity. As seen in Php 2:4-7 above, Jesus was an "actor" in the "reality show" called Earth. In his essential nature outside the "movie" Earth, he is still himself, God.

Every normal person understands movies to be a make belief, dealing with fantasy for entertainment purposes, for the most part. Whats real about the movie Back to the future, except it is fantasy? You cant go back to the past. You cant fast forward the future. The only reality is the present!

Quote
It cannot be seriously asserted by anybody that Jesus is the Father. I crafted that question carefully because of the trinitarian problem of identification whereby all three are said to be God, but never identified as being one another: in other words - is the son the Holy spirit as well?


You keep referring to "the three of them", which is an assumption that you have made, thinking I believe in the Trinity. I do not. I repeat, God is not 3-in-1, He is 1-as-3. i.e. A Singleton, who, relative to mankind, has been seen (and still is seen) in three various perspectives.

We finally found a Christian who thinks Trinity is not to be believed! But why? Is it because it is not in the Bible? Is it because of the fact that it is stated that there are three personalities in that concept of trinity? Is it other reasons or all of the above and others? We need to know, though we read that the argument is now 1 as three, similar to me Olabowale, a father, a husband, a son, limiting my many attributes or descriptions to my immediate bloodline, partially because am still a brother, a nephew, etc which will make my condition even more complex than the 1 as 3 because am now 1 as more than 3 (See above).

Analogy: Jackie Chan's Who am I, a 1998 Jackie Chan film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Am_I%3F) which he wrote, starred in, and also directed is a good example here! Since he wrote the movie, I will say He FATHERED it, c.f. the role of God (as) the Father. As he starred in it, that means his own script "gave birth to his character" i.e. He did EXACTLY what the script described for his role (that is what SONship is all about!). Directing the movie is like the role of the Holy Spirit, whom the Bible says, knows the things of God (1 Cor 2:11-13), and is the one qualified to GUIDE us into all truth, as God is truth.

Is that actor in reality the husband of the wife of Jackie Chan? Of course not, because when he and his wife are in their bedroom, neither the actor, nor the director nor the producer (each of them a character in a make belief scenario, movie) is ever the man called jackie Chan! To use this analogy to defend 1 as 3 or 3 as one, etc is naive, dishonest and should you give me 3 million dollars and when I record your deposit in the transaction, you will get upset that it says 1 million dollars as 3 million dollars so that I can pay you just 1 million dolars!

Would it then be right for an observer to ask "How can Jackie Chan condescend to such a level as to allow himself lose his memory (as it happened in the movie)? Since he wrote the script, why couldn't he let it all be an easy, smooth & magical macho ride?". Valid question, but then who would buy such a movie?

Clint Eastwood is a better, more famous, producer, director and actor than the younger Jackie Chan. The adventure of Josie Wales which he produced, directed and starred in, he was the hero doing justice to the bad guys. I enjoyed it with Sandra Locke in it, a woman that he married in real life, if only it did not last a lifetime; the life of make believers in play! Is make belief the best way to make God Almighty Who knows everything co-equal to human jesus and ghostly spirit? What an injustice on the Most Powerful!  

In light of the analogy above, if we say that
1. Jackie Chan (the real guy you can eat dinner with),
2. his movie-character (A black-OPs CIA agent also named Jackie Chan) and
3. the movie director (an ambitious guy named Jackie Chan)

No, because in reality the make belief dies when Jackie Chan the human being steps away from the shoots! Let me explain; if Jackie Chan were to attend his son's school teachers and parents association meeting, do we expect the CIA personality to show up, or just the father of the student? Its obvious that it is the father that we expect, in the real world separate from movie's make belief!

are all the same JACKIE CHAN, would we be wrong?

But there is only one Jackie Chan; the father, the son the husband, and is business role as producer, director and actor individually or collectively dies with the end of the shoot, for there is no need for him to continue in any of these roles when the product is now in the theaters, but to embark on another "future" project.

So why is it hard to understand that God wrote a script called Eternity, and one of the seasons of that long movie is called Earth, and he decided to feature himself in it? Some minutes into that season, he allows the "himself" character to die (as was planned from the start) and the script goes on?

Hogwash. The convenience of that is for the gullible. What will be the purpose of that at that time in human history? Will it be because it was the earliest of time or the middle or the end of time? Would it because it is the purest of time, or the worst or time, or the middle? None of these is true, even in our limited knowledge. I say limited because we do not know everything, just like Jesus a human being like every prophet before him did not know everything; the end of time for example and have limited ability to do things, like what came out of the lips of jesus about himself not fully powerful, unable to do things without "God'd" Help! Whats the purpose of God coming down from His Unique Position, different and completely separate from humans, all of a sudden becomes just like man? Could he not have help man in the way he had done it many times before? In all of the arguments to make God Jesus on earth, we forget what Jesus said himself against this foolishness, and not considering that after they say that he dies for sins, we see that he said there is "Lake of Fire" (HellFire) still and prophesied that in the day of Judgement he will say I never knew you to many miracle workers of the Christians.

And that, exactly, is the case we have right here. Jesus is a projection of God into human form (a la projection of Jackie Chan into the TV screen), and I will employ this analogy to answer your some questions in my next few posts.

The Jesus who You sent statement tore into unrecognizable pieces of uselessness the idea that jesus is the actual protection of God Almighty while prophets like Moses, Noah, etc are not!

« #11 on: Yesterday at 10:39:39 PM »  

Quote
  2. In the event that you attempt the lame line that he was only saying that because he was here on earth in the physical, then what about Jesus' assertion that he would ascend to be sitted on the right hand side of the father? after being resurrected? This makes it abundantly clear that he is not the same entity at whose rigfht hand he sits. It is made clear in the Gospel that he rose and sat at the right hand side of the Father - Mark 16:19.

Let me start with this Bible verse.

Exo 15:6  Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.
Exo 15:12  Thou stretchedst out thy right hand, the earth swallowed them.
Deu 33:2  And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
Psa 16:8  I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
Psa 16:11  Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.


The English language is so weak that meanings have been lost in translation. Thank God for verses like Exo 15:6 and many others that show that the "right hand" of God does not mean towards the eastern cartesian coordinates of his upper limbs!

The RIGHT HAND of God means the place of assurance, security, hope, salvation, power, might, glory, favour etc. i.e. anything good that one can benefit from God, emanates from His right hand!

Jesus "seated at the right hand of God" means that the benefits of our salvation are to be obtained THROUGH Him IN GOD.

How does seated at the right hand makes the one who sat and the One Whose right hand the seat become one, instead of two separate entity, even if all goodness is from the right, then all evil must be from the left, telling us that the left is still not occuped. If we follow the wisdom of the sitting positions, it is clear that Biblical God is on the right side of the emptiness, while jesus is on the right of Biblical God! Can anyone argue with any clear mind that Jesus is the same entity wose right side he is seated?

As for my Jackie Chan analogy, that is like seeing Jackie Chan on the streets in Hollywood and I scream "Jackie Chan!!! Please sign me an autograph!!" and he smiles and asks "Which movie was your favourite?",

If you look at this above, Jackie Chan is no more just on the single movie that we have seen him above as a CIA person, but actor of many movies. Ridiculous since the arguments are flowing from one river to another stream which feeds a spring and it is this spring that flows to the Ocean which will definitely feed a major river like Niger, or Nile or Mississippi! Can anyone believe and accept these inconsistencies?

and then we get to start talking about His character in the movie "Who am I", about the cool Black-OPs CIA dude. The REASON I am interested in the Jackie Chan guy I am talking to, and any autographs I get from his, is only because of His RIGHT HAND, which is the movie character. If the black OPs guy were not on Jackie Chan's RIGHT HAND, who would give two scoobies (viaro!  ) about that Chinese guy? I believe my analogy has sufficed in this case.

Except that to you, Chan's best work was just that, while to others it is another movie and some racist or others may actually think that he is a bore, an ill prepared actor, not meritting the cost of admission! Jackie Chan, the person is the only true Jackie Chan, not the make believes of Hollywood, where reality is mired in lies; its acceptable this way since it is only for entertainment purposes, but to use the same process to cheapen the Uniqueness of God by dragging Him to be a human being is the highest form of disbelief, idolatry, and at least personal desire!

« #12 on: Yesterday at 10:40:06 PM »  
Quote
  3. Jesus makes it clear that the father has the same relationship with us (being our father) as with Jesus (being his father).

Unfortunately what Jesus said directly has been lost because there were no immediate at the moment of gospelling recordings! Therefore, it is no surprise that we see a lot of conjecture, personal opinions and "what Jesus said"!

This is emphasized by the text in Jn 20:17. Even after Jesus had died and risen,  there remains a clear difference between the two as Peter writes - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" - 1 Pet. 1: 3

I already explained what a Father's role is in the development of a son's character. The FATHER Figure does not necessarily mean sexual progeny, it means someone from whom one is DERIVED.

Father in realty is the one whose blood flows in your veins. The one who slept with mother and the end result is you. Any other definition is false, for your father's daughters are your sisters, his sons are your brothers and you cant marry your sister if you are a man, and you cant marry your brother if you are a woman.

John 8:44 records Jesus saying to a group of dissenting Jews "You are of your father the devil", and this was because their actions were derivative of the devil!

we must apply the same process to jesus in relationship to God! no muslim denies that jesus and God have a standing relationship, just in the same pattern of relationship that each Messenger or prophet has with God! Is anyone of them son, but just messenger, or prophet? Is the evil doer the child of the devil, but a relationship with him by actions?

Just like Michelle Ferre, acting as Christine, a beautiful CIA undercover agent, also acting according to the script, will have Jackie Chan for a FATHER. BUT NOT the Jackie Chan who is a CIA Agent! It will be the Jackie Chan that wrote the movie script.

Can the true jackie Chan, please stand up! It will be the one that is not from the make belief lifestyle of Hollywood! If the Jackie Chan on his family dies, will there still remain any of the jakie Chans from Hollywood?

God became the FATHER of the Jews starting from when he adopted Abraham,

Adopted him as what; a son or a messenger prophet whom He said is a friend? We must not forget that Abraham was not a Jew, a lineage of Judah, but the jews are one of the lineages that came from Abraham, making the relation between God and Abraham cover all the lineages of Abraham and cant be exclusive to just a branch! Is there a proof against this, from any book, even if the offspring of Abraham happens to be an evil doer, will he still have the benefit of this relationship, while a good person just because he is not from his bloodline, but adopted Abraham's good ways excluded from it? Of course not!

and he revealed himself as El-Shaddai in Genesis 17:1. El-Shaddai translates as "the multi-breasted God" meaning that he had more than enough for anyone at any point in time.

this will then destroy the exclusivity of what the Jewish tribe claims for herself!

That is a real Father.

Is Creator not better and higher than a father? Why deny God the Creator and stubbornly stick with Father? My Creator is God. My father is long dead!

When Jesus spoke to Mary, he spoke as one who was in the cast of mankind, and also following the script of life. And Peter referred to him as the FATHER of CHRIST. Very true! Because Christ came to do his will, perfectly. That is what real sons do.

Did Jesus ever referred himself as his own father, even when you call him son of david, and in the two geneologies, there was no place it was traced back to God? Who is closer to God; from the geneologies, Adam or Jesus? Of course Adam, yet never called son of God! You may argue that he was created from dirt, but are we not all sons and daughters of Adam? Was the creation of Jesus more miraculous than the creation of lady Eve, or that of Adam, or their children, the first earth birth?

« #13 on: Yesterday at 10:40:33 PM »  
[quote]Quote
4. “Of that day no one knows, not the angels, nor the son,  but only the Father”. Mark 13:32.

Consider these:

Quote
Joh 5:19  So Jesus answered them by saying, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the Son is able to do nothing of Himself (of His own accord); but He is able to do only what He sees the Father doing, for whatever the Father does is what the Son does in the same way [in His turn].
Joh 5:20  The Father dearly loves the Son and discloses to (shows) Him everything that He Himself does. And He will disclose to Him (let Him see) greater things yet than these, so that you may marvel and be full of wonder and astonishment.

Shurdy arguments! The truth is Jesus cant do anything of his own, no way, no how, no power no ability. But God can do everything without Jesus and the Independence of God on all things is 100%! We see that God even in His love did make it clear that Jesus does not know everything; "The end of time"! We even see that Moses was able to know that God will save the children of israel under him, yet he was a mere human, a prophet! Does this not make Moses even more knowledgeable of the end of the event that he was a leader of, while Jesus failed to know his own event outcome, when it will end, according to the Bible?

Quote
Mat 11:27  All things have been entrusted and delivered to Me by My Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father, and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son deliberately wills to make Him known.

Everything, except the end of time! Is that truly everything?

As I have explained earlier, the Son is the manifestation of the Father, appearing in human form as Christ Jesus. Everything is known to the FATHER, who wrote the script. But He did not make it such that everything will be "known" by the Son in the script.

Going about selling a lie will only be a product to be purchased by dishonest traders! If the author is the actor, why would he as the actor be surprised at his own script events, example is the crying on the cross? The cry itself if critically analysed can only come from disbelieving soul, because even the little boy, son of Abraham when he was going to be slaughtered, laid on his side, there is no portion, Bible with its unbelievable story forgetting how Sarah was the boss and will not stand for the death of Isaac, or Quran which produces an accurate event that is being observed up till today, considering the easiness of Hagar's low class position which will make her son Ismail an easier Sacrificial person, were it is reported that the young person cried, doubted and carried on in a manner showing disbelief! This is a child, a human with courage, not a 30 something year old man, prophet, which some people even take it to the extreme to call him God! Even me Olabowale, am resigned to the fact coming to me one day, though I do not wish it for another 70 years. Whenever it comes, should I now react to it as if I am now abandoned by God Who all these while allowed me to be alive, experience His Bounty?

As John 5:19 clearly states, JESUS WAS FOLLOWING A SCRIPT! The only thing he can do is what the script-writer had determined or allowed him to do.

Is he the script writer or what? If he is, he is a dishonest actor because no time did he tell the people, even after the event that he acted to show them some wisdom. If he is not the script writer, then those who say he was the writer are following their own selfish and unsubstantiated desire!

Let me illustrate with a movie analogy. A re-enactment of Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes Mysteries. Set in the early 20th century, would we expect the kind of high-tech gadgets that are available in this 21st century to be employed in the script? No, of course not! Even when the Sherlock Holmes actor KNOWS that by programming a hidden camera into a wristwatch as an embedded nanotechnology system, he can solve the mystery at hand, does he do that? So, isn't it clear that the script-writer knows what could have saved the day, but the SON (the actor in THAT form of acting) does not?

Why would Jesus who was Script writer and Actor revealed to us by the my God my God on the cross that he is ignorant of that end, when he has been telling us earlier that God the Script Writer is completely different from him, the actor (a la Mark 12 verse 29)? The reality then is that they are not the same, while the Script Writer is not on the screen, the actor is, and if the movie get damaged by fire, we will not see the actor and the movie any longer on the screen. If the script is damaged by fire, the script writer is not imaged in the Script as the actor is in the movie! Is it not a disgenuious statement that one will think that God Almighty as Script Writer will know everything, but as an actor will teach us that there are still some knowledge he does not have? Wow!

« #14 on: Yesterday at 10:41:39 PM »  
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5. To whom was Jesus praying in Gethsemane? To who did he cry "Eli Eli, La ma sabathacni?" Doubtless to the father. In Gethsemane he makes the crucial statement - "Nevertheless not as i will, but as thou wilt" - making it clear that the Father had a different mind, will and selfconsciousness, because if he were the father himself, that prayer would be moot and paradoxical.

Finally, the last question. I already answered this on the other thread, so to save time I will copy and paste it here.

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On Gethsemane:

Using my analogy of Keifer Sutherland acting as Jack Bauer in the action series "24", I know you will agree with me (if you watch the series) that many times, Jack Bauer is close to death, and like every other human being, he does not want to die unless he absolutely has to. In a hypothetical scene, he has been left inside an underground chamber while he tries to deactivate a scheduled nuclear warhead, guarded by Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists.

Jack Bauer (in his mind): Not my will, director (The director is Keifer Sutherland), but yours be done. I really want to get out of this scene alive, and save the people of the United States. (frantically tries to deactivate the warhead, while still shooting the Fundamentalist terrorists that are trying to gun him down and prevent him from doing the work)
Casual Observer (someone who has seen the movie last night on MNet): what nonsense?! Doesn't Keifer know that he will not die, and the CTU will rescue him in the next few minutes? Why is he acting like he doesn't know? Are you sure Jack Bauer is Keifer Sutherland? 'Cos he was interviewed last week and he already told us about this scene!
Maven:   But of course he has to behave like that, because that is what his role requires! And if Jack Bauer dies in that movie, Keifer Sutherland will never be Jack Bauer again. At least until another movie. Self-preservation is a fundamental human trait, and he's only human to act that way

While we are dancing from one idea to another, we must not forget that the reality here is Keifer Sutherland, the son of his father actor "the senior Sutherland", for if the son dies (thats not my wish since the boy is still young), the father would have lost a child. Thats not the case with Jack Bauer of the make belief.

Furthermore, I want you to note that everything Jesus did and said was for our benefit.

No single proof more than to claim what Moses did was for the "benefit" of the Egyptians who perished after losing their first birth!

If he acted all macho and marched to the cross, how would we know how to deal with circumstances where it seems our will is far easier than God's more complex (difficult?) will?

The same guy who had earlier acted Macho when he overturned the table of the "old people" doing their money exchange business? How can we argue that this same man is not macho and even violent at all with this very event?

Here, Jesus was going to undergo a three-day journey that would at first separate him from the Godhead due to the enormity of man's sins. For the FIRST time, the Son of God was going to be divorced, so to speak, from His Father. In actuality, He knew it was temporary, but for our benefit, he had to take it like a man (no pun intended).

Three days as a jew of daily measurement of Sunset to Sunset or other people of Midnight to Midnight? Either way calculate 3 das for me starting from just before Sunset Friday to just after dawn of Sunday! There is no way you will get a 2 days of the jews or 3 days of the 12 midnight to 12 midnight!

Jesus took his disciples along with him so as to show them how it is to battle out such spiritual tussles, but they were just sleeping like logs

They did not see him do any battle, if it is spiritual (an unseen battle since you cant see spirit). The only place they see something that he did, which is the hanging on the cross, it is less than 3 days! Did Jesus of the Bible dont know how to calculate the time measurement of the Jews from Sundown to Sundown?  

« #15 on: Yesterday at 10:44:42 PM »  
Sincerely, I think the entire problem surfaces whenever we try splitting hairs between Jesus and The Father, when he has clearly said that "I and the Father are ONE" (John, at 10:30pm  ) for which the Jews attempted to stone him, saying he thus made himself God. In this narrow road of understanding HOW God could be in Heaven and yet be manifest in the flesh, a weary traveller without the help of the Holy Spirit can fall into error and heresy.

Mark 12 Verse 29 is completely saying that jesus and God are not the same, so how do you reconcile this clear opposition? We see that the Jews say even before they were evr called Jews during their Children of Israel or Israelites days that they are all even Gods, Children of God!

Question:

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To whom was Jesus praying in Gethsemane? To who did he cry "Eli Eli, La ma sabathacni?" Doubtless to the father. In Gethsemane he makes the crucial statement - "Nevertheless not as i will, but as thou wilt" - making it clear that the Father had a different mind, will and selfconsciousness, because if he were the father himself, that prayer would be moot and paradoxical.

This attempt to re-enact God's role in Jesus as a movie director acting his own script is, I think, the farthest analogy I can go on with. If I use a simpler analogy, I will severely weaken the very idea of Divinity.

Can Unity and Trinity ever fit in the same box? Its absolutely impossible.

What makes this whole topic so complex is the fact that God put aside his divinity and participated in the flesh as a man.

Conjecture or is there a proof, from the time of Adam all the way to Jesus?

In that man-form, his true nature has not been compromised, but in his fairness and justice, he will act as a man. Nature and spirits will recognize him (e.g. Matthew 8:27, 8:29 etc.) and they will bow, they know their creator even though he wears a mask. But man? No, man will not believe. For the fact that he came in a form like he is, man in his pride will think he's one of them, and they would kill him. But he knew that already.

I will try to be brief.

If he knows why would anyone say that as the actor, in previous responses, above that he lacked knowledge of it, because the Script writer, he, did not tell himself the actor? It is ridiculous considering that we are trying to marry two entirely different entities as one, when it is so obvious that they cant: One being the Creator, the other being created having a beginning through his mother? What spirits would recognize him, supposedly when there is just one spirit/ghost? Or are there more and what are those spirits like the good spirits of the True Prophets and the evil spirits of the false prophets? To assume that human have enough pride to want to overcome a thing that claims he is God, and actually succeed will disqualifies that entity as True God for it is not possible to destroy the CREATOR!

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Really strange then that he wrote the script and also wrote a part in the script where he would address himself begging himself to change the script.

As I said earlier, Jesus was not "begging",

If Jesus was not begging, what was he doing? And then follows the below:

it was necessary for him to do that for two reasons:
1. To show the disciples how to handle such situations whenever it arises in their own lives (that was why he asked them to come with him)
2. God will not cheat, and he will never perform at a sub-standard level. So if he cast himself into a script as a man, the man will be expected to fulfill the roles that are required of any such man in that role. That is what it means to be a good actor. Permit the analogy.

If Jesus was not begging, why the explanation? THis is almost similar in an esoteric way to a man who was clearly stealing a property and he was telling the owner and the people who witnessed it that he was just safekeeping it for the rightful owner who knew it was safe where he had it under lock until the thief broke the lock! God using Moses showed easier way to deal with adversities without dragging Himself into it, for the prophets are examples for the people to follow! What is substandard for God is to actually become human and allow Hisself to be killed, and wrongly calculate less than two Jewish days for 3 days before the arrogant Jewish people! Shouldnt the manhood of God be superior if it were ever a thing to happen, than to find that God not knowing all things now that he is a man, crying, weeping, etc, etc to the point that he is suddenly surprised that he is going to die, carrying on to the point of disbeleving, complaining that his God in heaven self now abandoned himself now on the cross? What a lost of memory and sign of disbelief!

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IF CHRIST WERE GOD, HE WOULD KNOW VERY WELL EXACTLY WHAT EFFECTS HIS CARRYING SIN WOULD HAVE ON THE GODHEAD -

Accordingly he would not despair that "God had forsaken him. . ." He would know fully well all the divine computations of what was going on. . .

God in His omniscience knew what He had to do in the form of Christ. It was never for once lost on him. Why else would he rebuke Peter when he tried to convince him otherwise, and call him the devil?

While Jesus repuked Peter as such he failed dishonestly to rebuke himself on the cross acting exactly worse than Peter. Peter was not even a prophet but a follower of a prophet. Should a prophet with the same level of disbelief as Peter not carry greater blame? How if God were to show a disbelief in Himself, will it not be the wholesale amnesty of the people against God if He were to blame them for disbelief in Him?

1. The very reason Christ cried out this way was because Jesus was quoting from Psalm 22 which would have been immediately recognized by those within earshot, and today by those who know the Psalms.  It follows the classic pattern of the Todah Psalms – suffering followed by deliverance. Jesus the Messiah, Son of David, draws attention to this psalm not only because it is a prophecy of his crucifixion, but because he can very confidently give thanks knowing it’s purpose. Raising his voice, he began reciting the Psalms, starting with, and ending with, the two verses below:

Pay attention to son of Daid, instead of God! What is truly the truth? I will ignore the crying out, a sign of mankind.

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Psa 22:1  To the Chief Musician; set to [the tune of] Aijeleth Hashshahar [the hind of the morning dawn]. A Psalm of David. MY GOD, my God, why have You forsaken me? Why are You so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning? [Matt. 27:46.]
--------------------------------please read the rest, twould make my post too long---------------
Psa 22:31  They shall come and shall declare His righteousness to a people yet to be born--that He has done it [that it is finished]! [John 19:30.]

NOTE the beginning and the end were the words recorded in the gospels. Why is that? In a form of symbolism, the gospel writers recorded only the beginning and the end of Christ's words as he hung on the cross, struggling to say the words (due to asphyxiation by virtue of the cross). I believe he said the whole psalm, because when you read it you get an exact description of what happened at the cross.
2. As I said before, he was fulfilling a role. I don't think I need to flog this horse, it's dead and maggot-infested by now.

If it is the writer or the writers who captured merely the beginning and end of what Jesus said, missing out what was in the middle, can we sincerely say that they captured everything, maybe the deliberate omission of what clearly pointed to Jesus being no more than the prophet, a man of God, carrying and delivering His Message? Can we sa the writers are in essence capturing the word of God, but simply what they deem fit to record of what the man, Jesus said? Why do we say then that the Bible is the completely the word of God, when it was written by men and still going through revisions, editions, versions even as we speak, showing fully that this is a document from man, showing imperfection?What is the symbolism here and unfortunately a God dying of asphyxiation, by simple device of just a small group of mankind? Can we believe an entity that dies to be called Immortal and Invisible?

And why can't God follow his own script? The Bible says in Psa 138:2 that he has magnified his word above ALL his own name! His name there, including his integrity and intents, is subjected to his own Word. So why is is difficult to say that God followed through with his own script in His own wisdom?[/quote?! Integrity and Intents of God is now subjected to His word, allowing His own Word to die off, trail off? Could this ever happen to the God Who perished the people of Noah, then the people of Lot, then the Egyptians, then the people of Jericho, the Jebusites, Philistines, etc, long before, unrelenting when He wishes to punish? Is He now punishing Himself as Jesus to do what, whereas people (christians who have this idea) will still go to lake of fire since Jesus said that "I never know thee"?


[quote]God never lost his omniscience. But in cases where his "actor" on earth was not "designed" by the "script" to know something, it would be correct to say that Jesus "did not know" e.g. Mark 13:32. May I use an analogy here? It's like saying that when I look into the mirror, there are some things that my mirror image will know? That in itself is an abstruse statement, can you tell what my mirror image knows? Of course, there are things like my facial expression and my body language that my mirror image can "know", but can it tell you what time I intend to go shopping tomorrow? That analogy is quite poor, but I hope you get my point.

Does this make sense that a part of God knows everything, another part knows just what the first part wants him to know, while still the last part we really cant figure him out? THe Mirror reflection does not becomes the person starring at it. It is a make belief having no dimension, and value. YOu cant kill the image in the mirror unless you kill the person, making human being even more unique than the Christian god of three with one part dying! Can we say this is God?

I rest my case. I hope you find your answers. « #16 on: Yesterday at 10:45:40 PM »  
Here is the entire chapter, from the AMPLIFIED version, for you and anyone else who also wants to read it in perspective of the crucifixion. {I quote the AMPLIFIED because it  uses the original Greek and Hebrew texts to unlock subtle meanings, and also includes cross-references.}

Please read with a very open mind, seeing that it was a prophecy and not all the details were fully expressed. For instance, Psa 22:31 in many versions end with "he has done it", but Jesus ends with "it is finished". Considering translation gaps from Hebrew to Aramaic to Greek, I think it is acceptable. Such gaps are adequately covered in the AMPLIFIED, but you can compare with the KJV or another, as well.

Psa 22:1  To the Chief Musician; set to [the tune of] Aijeleth Hashshahar [the hind of the morning dawn]. A Psalm of David.
MY GOD, my God, why have You forsaken me? Why are You so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning? [Matt. 27:46.]
Psa 22:2  O my God, I cry in the daytime, but You answer not; and by night I am not silent or find no rest.
Psa 22:3  But You are holy, O You Who dwell in [the holy place where] the praises of Israel [are offered].
Psa 22:4  Our fathers trusted in You; they trusted (leaned on, relied on You, and were confident) and You delivered them.
Psa 22:5  They cried to You and were delivered; they trusted in, leaned on, and confidently relied on You, and were not ashamed or confounded or disappointed.
Psa 22:6  But I am a worm, and no man; I am the scorn of men, and despised by the people. [Matt. 27:39-44.]
Psa 22:7  All who see me laugh at me and mock me; they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, [Matt. 27:43.]
Psa 22:8  He trusted and rolled himself on the Lord, that He would deliver him. Let Him deliver him, seeing that He delights in him! [Matt. 27:39, 43; Mark 15:29, 30; Luke 23:35.]
Psa 22:9  Yet You are He Who took me out of the womb; You made me hope and trust when I was on my mother's bosoms.
Psa 22:10  I was cast upon You from my very birth; from my mother's womb You have been my God.
Psa 22:11  Be not far from me, for trouble is near and there is none to help.
Psa 22:12  Many [foes like] bulls have surrounded me; strong bulls of Bashan have hedged me in. [Ezek. 39:18.]
Psa 22:13  Against me they opened their mouths wide, like a ravening and roaring lion.
Psa 22:14  I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax; it is softened [with anguish] and melted down within me.
Psa 22:15  My strength is dried up like a fragment of clay pottery; [with thirst] my tongue cleaves to my jaws; and You have brought me into the dust of death. [John 19:28.]
Psa 22:16  For [like a pack of] dogs they have encompassed me; a company of evildoers has encircled me, they pierced my hands and my feet. [Isa. 53:7; John 19:37.]
Psa 22:17  I can count all my bones; [the evildoers] gaze at me. [Luke 23:27, 35.]
Psa 22:18  They part my clothing among them and cast lots for my raiment (a long, shirtlike garment, a seamless undertunic). [John 19:23, 24.])
Psa 22:19  But be not far from me, O Lord; O my Help, hasten to aid me!
Psa 22:20  Deliver my life from the sword, my dear life [my only one] from the power of the dog [the agent of execution].
Psa 22:21  Save me from the lion's mouth; for You have answered me [kindly] from the horns of the wild oxen.
Psa 22:22  I will declare Your name to my brethren; in the midst of the congregation will I praise You. [John 20:17; Rom. 8:29; Heb. 2:12.]
Psa 22:23  You who fear (revere and worship) the Lord, praise Him! All you offspring of Jacob, glorify Him. Fear (revere and worship) Him, all you offspring of Israel.
Psa 22:24  For He has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither has He hidden His face from him, but when he cried to Him, He heard.
Psa 22:25  My praise shall be of You in the great congregation. I will pay to Him my vows [made in the time of trouble] before them who fear (revere and worship) Him.
Psa 22:26  The poor and afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; they shall praise the Lord--they who [diligently] seek for, inquire of and for Him, and require Him [as their greatest need]. May your hearts be quickened now and forever!
Psa 22:27  All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations shall bow down and worship before You,
Psa 22:28  For the kingship and the kingdom are the Lord's, and He is the ruler over the nations.
Psa 22:29  All the mighty ones upon earth shall eat [in thanksgiving] and worship; all they that go down to the dust shall bow before Him, even he who cannot keep himself alive.
Psa 22:30  Posterity shall serve Him; they shall tell of the Lord to the next generation.
Psa 22:31  They shall come and shall declare His righteousness to a people yet to be born--that He has done it [that it is finished]! [John 19:30.] Can Jackie Chan the man dies and somebody is now sending condolences to the Image on the movie screen of his above CIA role, without somebody scratching his head to see if the person is mentally stable? Is there any real Jackie Chan except one, and the rest is a make belief, fake on screen and in the performing art business? Is Keifer Sutherland, I think his father is Donald more than just one Keifer to his family? Does he truly appear in more than one place in body and soul, being a human being? If this guy is just one, a human being, created can find a way to be acting as he is, tell me, is it necessary that God will have to kill Himself for mankind, when He can simply forgive us all, without any effort, only from His Mercy or Forgiveness?

Many years ago, the son of Martial Art hero Bruce Lee, was playing a lead role in a movie. In the middle of it, he lost his life. Guess what, somebody else had to finish the project, taking the place of the late young man! Thats hollywood, and we see now that they do have stunt doubles. Non of the verses above support that it is talking about Jesus over say "Completely innocent full of mercy, patience, etc John the son of Zachariah" who lost his head because of his straight and narrow ways of life, turning down in disagreement the woman called Jezebel! How about Zachariah or even going back to Moses, etc those who had suffered in the hands of the enemies of their mission, and their persons and definitely the enemies of God Who sent them.

[/quote][/quote]

Allah Tabaraka wa Ta'ala did not mention any sect, hyphenated muslim. Muhammad (AS) the master among mankind did not divide the muslim into any of those, eithrr.

Sunni is a movement observing the Sunnah and Hadith of the Messenger (AS). Wahabbi, is a Sunni group, based on the exegesis of Shaikh AbdulWahab (ra). I saw one of his books, and at introduction, I stopped because I did not see the use. Quran and authentic Sunnah/Hadith are the "ROPE" of mankind to Allah. The prophet is the only conduit to Allah. Muhammad is the only one who could not be questioned among the muslims; "imaam" Hanifah (ra) who is from an earlier generation, many I might add before Iman AbdulWahhab, stated it, based on many verses of the Quran where Allah says that no one among mankind must question Muhammad, if he/she is a believer.

Umar ibn Khattab (RA) very senior to Imam AbdulWahhab was questioned, debated, etc by those who were in his generation (RA, ra). So AbdulWahhab was not the answer to all the questions or issues of Islam. If I disagree with him, I will not necessarily go to hellfire, unlike if I do with my beloved Messenger, leader of mankind (AS). Tis is the reason that those who demeaned him shall go directly to hellfire, barring none!

your lie is that your christianity is a continuation of judaism. thats a fat ie since you do have three gods one which you said the jews killed off because of blaphemy. there is no place that the jews even now in their warped fake Moses religion that God was to walk on the earth, under the heaven at any time. this alone kills off all your basically silly arguments.

@Davidylan« #6 on: Yesterday at 05:35:12 PM »  

This are biblical terms . . . i wonder when muslims will STOP deliberately stealing from the bible. Where did you find the story of Melchizedek in the quran? Is Salem an islamic town?

When did muslims start calling a slave of allah "father"? When did slaves become "friends" of God?

When did Adam a slave of Allah become your father, David? When did King David, a slave of Allah becomes the father of Jesus your human god? By the way I used the Melchisedek of the Bible to illustrate that Abraham of the Bible fought disbelievers because of their disbelief! Why would you expect Muhammad (AS) to do less, and the Muslims when the evil doers wayley them? I know jesus deviated from Abraham, Moses, Saul, David, Solomon to name a few!

@davidylan (m): « #8 on: Yesterday at 06:34:55 PM »  

1. Islam is NOT the continuity of christianity. Both espouse completely different doctrines that are not compatible. Why is it that muslims are too desperate to claim that islam is a continuity of christianity? Is that the new excuse to justify stealing from the bible to paper over the emptiness of the quran?

2. Abraham is NOT regarded as a friend of God "in all religions". I'm sorry but Abraham is ONLY revered in Judaism and christianity. Judaism is the old testament part of christianity.

3. Abraham is regarded as the father of faith ONLY in the bible and no where else. Faith, as a term the way it is explained in the bible, is meaningless in islam.

I think you need to do the thinking.

Iro foo e nfun! I hope america has not taken you away that you cant read Yoruba any longer? Oh, d'oh, I forgot; you have no use for Nigeria and yoruba is a Nigeria Tribe, language, people! In all of your bravados, you have not abandoned the Yoruba last name, even the Nigerian names given to you by the Nigerian folks! Alhamdulillah, I see that your Christendom turned you to a slow man, especially when it comes to reality;

In the Quran, Ibrahim is referred to as hanifan. This means a person who denies all kind of disbelief. Allah says in Surah Baqarah or Imran that Ibrahim is not a Jew or Christian, but a believer, Muslim! Did Islam participated in Judaism? No. Dd Ibrahim participated in Christianity? No. Did Ibrahim participated in Islam? Yes. Proof it Olabowale!: Ibrahim was the father of Ismail (as) who was separated as a child from his father, but had the day tp day benefit of mother, and lived in Makka. It is reported and the evidence of Maqam Ibrahim in the Kaaba, in Makka's masjid Haram shows that father and son continued to see each other, and there was no rift een including the relationship of the younger brother Isiaq (AS) was consistent. In Surah An am, the Cattle, Ibrahim said towards the end that "all my salah, and my deeds, my life and my death is for the pleasure of Allah, the Lord of all thing, the One Capable of doing all things He Wishes, and I proclaim that am one of the muslims"! No prophet by religion is a Jew or Christian, but always qualifies as a muslim! Allah calls Ibrahim in Surah "Nisaa" or sounding alike surah Hud, Bani Israil, Furqan; but I think it is Nisaa) that "Ibrahim qalila (meaning: Ibrahim My Friend)! You david, have no knowledge of religion! Alhamdulillah you have your whole life ahead of you. Proof; my mother (Maryam Victoria "Deyoola" Samuel) becaome Muslima in around age 80 years. She has not looked back since!

What do the Jews say about your Christianity, its New Testament, and the claim that Jesus is God, or even a prophet, a messiah to them? Am laughing already, because you cant even have the strength to ask even the clean shaven Jews this question, so thinking that you will even ask a Labovitch, orthodox rabbi Kahani (Laanatullahi) type Jew any of these, is completely impossible! You dont have the strength, I repeat it. I Olabowale Omo Obanta, Eru Olorun Oba can ask the best of them, including people in Lakud Party or the Kenesset Chamber(s). I have asked late rabbi Nathanial Hager of 83 or so of Boro park, Attorney Samuel Panzer, Late attorney lance Steven Adler, Fred Braff, Neesim Hovart and others, my boy Larry in Las Vegas what they think about islam. None of them have stopped me from making salah, even in their home. They know better and am sure they will never let you call on human god in their home!



@davidylan (m): « #10 on: Yesterday at 06:48:27 PM »  

my 50 cent for you is that you go back and read on islam. you're copying too much from the bible.

Your 50 cents are not good enough for this authentic Ijebu man. And every one knows how we love money, but yours is rejected for being dishonest, tainted and not worthy of acceptance.

« #37 on: January 11, 2010, 03:43 PM »  

A silly idol (allah) can't guide itself let alone guide human being,

This statement fits better on Biblical Jesus than anything else. Idol, is always false object of worship because its benefit is not permanent. If you call the Almighty Allah anything but what He is, it will not move Him from His Position as The Sole Owner of all things, all events and to Him you must give account!

4 your info i can neva shed human blood

Which is easier to do, to work away from starting a verbal abuse on anyone, including a perceived elder or a person who is bent on hurting you or even kill you if you allow him/her to dominate you? If you have abused everyone in Islam on Nairaland and the evidences are many, will you not kill a person who came in to your home, at gunpoint beginning terror of all types of abuses on you and your people including sexual assult? Will you let this evil doer rape, maim and carry away your precious belongings, after all of that, and even kill a person, just to show you that you are not a human being since you did not even resist? If you cant shed his blood, you are not fit to call yourself a man. Even the animals protect and try to fight so that they preserve their youngs! Liars always dont pay attention to the weaknesses of their lies.

even if it's a terrorist (muslim) but can, tell da whole world thaaattttt,  ISLAM IS FIERCE NOT PEACE

I wonder if this guy will let that (terrorist) kill him and get away with his young wife as a captive? If Islam is fierce, what will you call those who have weapons of multimass destruction(s) 100 times over? They are not muslims, for the most part, you know. South Africa's apartheid was preached and sustained for the most part by color differences while Bible was used to justify it! The whole of the 1970's events that Steve Biko and others of Black University Students lost their lives on was White Christians fiercely oppressing black mostly Christian people of South Africa. Thank Allah that Islam, not always muslims stands on the side of the right, supporting the justice for the victims!

@Abu Zola (m);« #38 on: January 11, 2010, 07:59 PM »

'on that Day We shall present Hell to the disbelievers, plain to view-Quran 18:100

May Allah protect us and all our beloved from this calamity!

@Realtol « #39 on: January 11, 2010, 09:34 PM »  
]quote]Thank God u admmit u are unbeliever coz muhamhed said he is going 2 lead u (muslim) into da hell. Didn't he said so?

[/quote]Abu Zola is a disbeliever in 3 gods, trinity, Bible, etc! Abu Zola is not a disbeliever but a believer in all the authentic, unadulterated Books given to the prophets as they were given originally: Torah of Musa (AS), sabur of Daud (AS), Injil of Isa bin Maryam (AS), Suhufi of Ibrahim wa Musa (AS Jamiah), and of course the Quran which he just quoted from, above.Now shpw me where Muhammad (AS) said he will lead Muslims to hell: your obtuse statement will not go unchallenged!

"Islam is fierce not peace", look around u and prove that statement wrong.

Am sure whereever on eart you live, if a crime is committed, it is a matter of what religion is the criminal; so the armed robber gangs in Lagos, and the east will not be 100% Muslims! Their crimes are fierce, and lives are often lost. Definitely other forms of injuries do happen; anxiety developed from the experience of being robbed, there are rapes of the women, taking Jewelries, other valuables, monies and oh, for you mr. man; your manhood because no woman who sees your passivity when some strange man or men is/are raping her or them will think that you belong to the class of brave men, but coward little boy, even little girl or worse, a cattle, animal!

@Abu Zola (m): « #40 on: January 12, 2010, 10:43 AM »  
Sir Olabowale is a former xtrian and he knows that you are just spewing nonsense

It was my mother who was a former christian. But she raised me well, Alhamdulillah.

@Realtol; « #41 on: January 12, 2010, 02:34 PM »  

no! he is not. islam is fierce not peace.

Mothers have more influence than fathers. At least my mother had that nurturing advantage on me over my father. I often tell my sons that their mother is more important to them than I will ever be. I tell my wife that she is 3 times as important to her children than I am. I am honest based on what Muhammad (AS) says in the hadith about the importance of mothers. I might have just been christian in those days, going through Christian schools, being raise by a christian mother, etc! Abu Zola was not far from the truth on this matter, except that Allah strengthened my heart and directed it firmly of al aqiidah mutaqim!

@Realtol; « #43 on: January 13, 2010, 10:08 AM »  

Islam is fierce not peace. Go hang yourself if you so care.

Yet he said he cant shed human blood. We call this type of your behavior "agent provocateur", agitating people to do evil, accessory to murder does not inure you from being guilty just as the one who committed the murder. Shaitan places this same role you are playing; he (Laanatullah) just make suggestion, encouraging the evil act(s)!

« #45 on: January 13, 2010, 05:12 PM »  
[quote]I s l a m  i s  f i e r c e  n o t  p e a c e! Screw that village thug called muhamodu.

Ibadan used to be just an outpost. Today it is the most populated and largest by far among the yoruba cities, towns and "Villages!" If Muhammad (AS) did not fight for all the 13 years of Makka, the first 2 years of madina, and no unjust war, and when he had a chance to avenge on the Makkans of all the evils, he didnt do it, forgave them and the tyrannical Taif, forgave the Jewish woman who poisoned him, hoping he died right there and then, just like those who ate with him, etc, etc, can we call his noble soul "thug?" You are talking based on emotions, alone.

@toba (m): « #46 on: January 13, 2010, 06:55 PM »  

I think islam is d way to hell fire.Since quran 4 condemns any form of suisidal killings,yet terrorist muslims still practises it as jihad&almost pushed farouk to doing same.Hell fire all d way

Just like all disbelievers are condermed! So the only free people who will never be in hell for any kind of punishment, InshaAllah are the other muslims, who believe in Quran and Muhammad's sayings and actions! You toba is not from this group of believers!

@Realtol; « #50 on: Today at 09:57:53 AM »  

Yes woe to suicide bombers, terrorist, on the last day fire straight.

Woe to all kind of disbeliefs in Allah the Almighty!

@Viaro: « #34 on: Today at 04:56:23 PM »  

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 03:55:22 PM
@jcross22: « #5 on: January 12, 2010, 03:33 PM »  listen to the video, again; they are all in there.
If you don't mind, please post the scriptures yourself - just do it and stop being evasive. Thank you in advance.

Viaro; use your arbel man. Am an old man, and if I can hear the man, then a younger man like you should be able to hear him, or was it the Jewish/Yiddish accent that trips you?

Quote
Paganism, is different from Islam. Just like Christianity, the new modern paganism is different from semi Paganism of Judaism, all different from true belief;
Hehehe. . this is what cheats often do! They never stick to a topic of a thread but seek deviations that serve no purpose!  Did the sellout Jew in that vid in the OP ever mention any thing about Christianity? What was his purpose - to talk about Christianity? Have you run out of erudition that the only way out of this quagmire for you is to deliberately deviate this thread by turning it to a discussion of Christianity? Please stop being such a cheat - it does not help; and we shall not forget the main topic of this thread arising from the OP. Deviations serve no purpose here, sorry.

Alhamdulillah, he didnt think Christianity is a religion worthy of mentioning.

Quote
Islam! No where in the Quran or Hadith Allah the Almighty is mentioned as a tribal or paganic or moon (God!)
Does not say that either for the God of the Jews - and the sellout Jew in that vid does not make such a conjecture either.

The Jewish God declare "I am your God, Alone" The Jews say that they are the people of God, while others are not. You even they Christians say that the Jews are exclusively the people of God, and others are not. You only become people of God based on your Jewish human Jesus god! How would a nigerian man be child of Jewish or Christian God, except under the jewish concept of sonship, a carry over on Jesus!

Quote
and or Islam takes any daughter, or son, or child/children, male or female for Allah the Sole Indipendent Complete Lord!
We know the history behind allah's three daughters. Please don't make us laugh. .  or we shall have to remind you that NONE of the Biblical prophets ever claimed to have spoken by Satan, unlike Muhammad who was flirting with Satan from start to finish. You're a desperate man, I can understand that; but your desperation cannot be alleviated by poking your fingers at others when you should be worried about your Islam and the lying slob of that sellout Jew who bought Harun Yahya so cheaply. Any Jew with half a brain who watched that vid would be literally rolling on the floor with laughter!

If the slob is purchased by Harun Yahya, then what happened to the Jews who lambast Islam in the front of Wealthy american christian right crowd? You are so naive. Am sure somebody may call your father, dad. does that mean he is the father of the child he does not sire; the same condition with your adamancy of saying Allah has a child! You think he is yahweh with jesus as son? LOL!

Quote
The Children of Israel, by all accounts did not have a specific religion, or a mode of worship except that they were under slavery bondage and not a group of disbelievers and tyrannicals like the Egyptians.
Guess what? The children of Noah did not have a specific religion either - so where did that lying slob get his facts from?

For sure you cant call them christians or Jews. I can call them Muslims, because Muslims are also called Hanifan, Muminu, Salihin, Muflihuun, Mutafiqat, Subirin, and many other names.

Quote
Now after sometime, crossing safely the sea, they took up "paganism" by worshipping golden calf. The same people, having the same determination, etc later became the flagbearer of One God belief, under Moses, and many many prophets (AS); David, Solomon, and even Jesus the last of them in that lineage! Shall we take it, still that the Children of Israel, as in Judaism and their offsprings; Christianity are both Pagans, still of the golden calf, since we dont see them worshipping it any more.
Nope, you don't find Christians making a golden calf to bow down to it as did the Israelites in the wilderness.

You already substiyute that with the golden cross on the neck, etc!

I don't know, but what is the origin of the black stone that Muslims bow down to in the religion? Why do you guys bow down to a stone where some muslims claim that Islam enjoins Muslims to bow down to nothing except allah?

no one bows to tone in Makka, or the whole of Ka'aba. Its Allah and regardless of how much you right it as "allah" the truth is not chnaging! Like the yoruba song goes; Ao de bi ti a maa de, o baa taa kiti ko fori Konle, a o de bi ti a maa de

Quote
Or do to we see them sticking with the Original Tabernacle of God, and there is no carrying of the ark of the covenant; are they still in the religion of Moses? Absolutely not.
That's another concrete point for the sellout Jew and Harun Yahya - there was no Muslim EVER who was associated with the Tabernacle or Jewish Covenant or the Ark of the covenant! NONE!!

Before the tabernacle of the lord and or the ark of covenant, there was the true religion of Adam. There was the true religion of Enoch. There was the true religion of Noah. There was the true religion of Abraham. There was the true religion of Isaac, of Jacob, of Joseph, etc etc long before that of Moses and the ark, unless you wanna say that these people before the ark were disbelievers?! The same Moses time people worshipped golden calf which all the later generations of the Children of israel, now jews and even their fake people the christians came out of . Are these people golden calf worshippers, you darn cross worshipper? Answer me, man and stop waffling!

So, from where did that slob get his desperate pantomimes to claim "similarities" between Judaism and Islam? Ah, I see. . you're unwittingly divulging the facts that shame that sellout Jew even before I ask. Thank you.

Why are you thanking me, you tool? I simpy said that while you are saying that Islam is idol worshipping, Judaism and their surrogate children who were once idol worshippers even as they had discovered God, you are not even saying that they are idol worshippers, today, though you have abandoned Ark and tabernacle which were signs of God at that time, and golden calf which was sign of idolatry at that time, yet you now worship the cross as a christian, why is it that the  Jews and Christians of today not associated with golden calf of yesteryears? you are so naive, viaro to be arguing blindly, darn cross worshipper.

Quote
You see, if we cant say that the jews and the Christians are worshippers of the golden calf, we cant say that the Muslims are worshippers of what the preislamic pagans of Makka worshipped.
Nope. Again, Christians are not the ones who made a golden calf;

Muslims did not namke allah, the 360 idols, the 3 daughters, etc. these were the people of makka and arabia before Islam of Muhammad! You are so busted.

and God showed His displeasure on such when they engaged in that act.

Same way God showed His displeasure on the arabs as Islam of Muhammad picked them apart, one after the other!

And this is one more confirmation that the Jew in that vid was LYING to muslims, especially that toothpick (Harun Yahya). There was no "connection" between Judaism and Islam - and the Quran makes that so clear in Sura 109!

Surah Kafirin is 109. Todays Judaism is paganic. Same way Christianity is not Judaism, hence double paganic. If the Jews as a people stick with the process of Moses, they would have known Jesus, and Muhammad. If the christians stick with the process of jesus, they would never have abandoned Moses, and of course never would they have walked away from Muhammad, instead they would have ran to Muhamad! It is only the Muslims who acknowledged all prophets, Messengers a total of 124,000 and say God Almighty is One and there is no similarity between He and His creations!

Quote
We see that Muslims stick with what Muhammad (AS) brought, while neither the Jews nor the Christians stick from Moses, or even jesus for Christians who took paul instead!
Thank you again for confirming that Islam is not an ancient religion but was actually what Muhammad brought. This should wrap it up for naive Muslims like javalove and Harun Yahya.

Muhammad brought means he brought forward what was there before, which had been abandoned before he brought it forward, anew! Allah says in Surah Maida; I complete My Favor on mankind, confirming Islam only as religion. In surah Baqarah Ibrahim, all his family and all prophets are muslims. Not Jews, not  christians, not other(s), but Muslims!

Quote
Then it is safe to say that all Jews and Christians can be referred back to the god their earlier people; the exodus generation worshipped; the golden calf, before they have a full directive under Moses to worship the One God! As I read the Bible, I remember that the people wanted a diety to worship, just like the people of Egypt; so they asked that a god is made for them! Please tell me now that you do not worship golden calf, but golden cross that you worship, can i say that you are devoted to golden calf, but turn it to golden cross, instead?
Are you so dumb? Did Muhammad ever anywhere make a connection between the calf and the Cross? If Muhammad was not that naive, what piffle are you sweating to make out here?  Look, please just stop being so desperate. .  unless the best thing out of your religion is the same al-taquiyya lying!

this guy is like the scarecrow! read what i responded to, while you deliberately not include it in your naivete, I will leave it for others to search out. Obviously, you are a cross worshipper, though, it would have been better if you dealt with ark of the covenant, and the tabernacle.

Quote
But islam does not allow even association with Allah/God/Chineke/Alaaye! God in Islam does not have a beginning, an end, no parents, no children, no partners and completely surfficient, Alone.
Allah had three daughters - Muslim revisionists changed the story later in Islamic history when they realised the implication for their religion. Many variations of this have been told; but the most tantalising is that Muhammad tried to wave it all off as if he had spoken by satan operating his tongue! When will you muslims stop making all these excuses and stay focused?

Quran's Chapter 112 has already answered you. You are done!

Now, shall we wait much longer for you to come back to the topic of this thread? Be our guest.

The topic is that the Jewish Rabbi with his long beard says Islam is long time before Judaism and Christianity and you are having a feat! Thats your problem; and I have said the same thing long time before you were born. It was the case long time before my great great great grandfather to the power great great great great great great grandfather. Before Jesus was, ever, there was Islam. Before Ibrahim (AS) there was Islam, though may be called hanifan or deen al subirin. (the religion of those who are patient). You are so done in! Keferi to the nth power!

@Olaadegbu: « #18 on: Yesterday at 12:52:48 PM »  

@olabowale,
Don't judge a book by its cover but its contents.  Looks may be deceptive.

Apply the same thing to Islam, too.

There cannot be a better Rabbi than Jesus Christ who came to give the proper interpretation of the Law.

True. Alhamdulillah, the Jews are not the only people that have had the favor of God to have prophets among them, and there is no place in their books, will you find God saying He will end prophethood to mankind with them; the singular reason the Jews disbelieved in Muhammad, neither was it on Moses which the Jews believed, the reason they disbelieved Jesus, nor was it on Jesus which is the reason that the Christians disbelieve in Muhammad.

The Rabbi in the video I posted is a Jewish Rabbi to the Christians.

And he is not politically correct. Right, while he was talking to the Christian rights in America. I understand you. Did he say that they hated and even now dont believe in the prophethood of Jesus?

Many other Rabbis are politically correct because they want to be accepted,

What power does the Muslims have; Oil? Thats no power, even in 1973 and its not even amounting to anything now in 2010 which is developing alternative oil sources, except the petrochemicals. Crude is irrelevant; the reason Nigeria is a athird world, and Saudi, Iraq, Iran can do nothing, and Kuwait is kissing the backside of the Christian powers.

but this one does not mince words as he says the truth regardless of who's ox is gored.

And the christian calf is not gored as that man was speaking in america. America is nonChristian country, but with a majority checking their religious space as Christians. Can you imagine if you are going to a lab to get a product formulated, and the manpower of that Lab is mostly Davidylan like; if you speak ill of Christianity, they will give you a product less than expected quality. That is even if they did not outrightly tell you that there the Lab is closed and does not operate any longer and your product can never be formulated, ever. Olaadegbu, you are so gullible that I pity your ignorance. I know Jews; Rabbis, reformed, conservatives, Orthodox, Lawyers and even Judges among them. One of them was like a baby brother to me. Another is like an Uncle. many of them are close, very close associates. They, though not Muslims, but know they truth of Muhammad! Maa ton raa e. Many of you people never close to jews except you are in the offices, or public transportations. I have been to their religious ceremonies, including invitations which I turned down of Russian jew's circumcisions; it was a rabbi in Borough Park that invited me; Late nathanian Hager.

He said some things like the word Jerusalem is not mentioned in the qur'an just as Mecca is not mentioned in the Bible.

Quran mentioned a place in Illya (Jerusalem); Masjid Aqsa. Now tell me which piece of land is more precious to the jews than ths place?

He also said that, according to the Bible Isaac was offered by Abraham as a sacrifice in Israel but the Qur'an insists that it was Ishmael that was offered by Abraham in Mecca.

Olaadegbu (and I miss ~lady~ so much, because she used to argue with you), how old was Isaac at this event and were was Sarah, the boss lady right on the pages of the Bible who was capable of twisting the arms of Abraham, commanding Yahweh on a simple complaint of Iscmael joke about his baby brother Isaac, to send the not so high up in social ladder like her hagar and Ischmael the first son out into the wilderness; should she Sarah now just lay down to see the same Isaac being offered out? Thats a greater responsibility on her to preserve his life, if just making fun of him sent a frst chid and mother out in the cold. Do you see how naive you and this rabbi are?

We all know that Israel exists today despite the fact that Islam has been trying to wipe them off the face of earth.

Israel at best is a land. Land does not make a people. People make land. Let see the killers of the Israeli people; all the way to Muhammad (AS), the madinan Jews were not fought, sacked or expelled because of their Jewishness. It was because of their crime of betrayal of the governace of the rule of aw; the covenant/constitution of Madina that no one should support aggression against her people. Umar did not kill Christians or Jews of Jerusalem (Illya) when the place was opened. In Islamic spain, the Jews rose to prominence. In Turkish Kalifa period, the Jews rose, too, th e ony reason that they were able to buy lands in Palestine. Now let see; In Christian efforts; Lets taslk about the crusade; the Jews were also killed along with Muslims. In spanish inquisition; the Jews were killed with the muslims. In first and second world wars, specifically the second, the Jews along with Gipsies and others were almost exterminated.

What do you say to the assertion he made that Islam is not a religion,

Is Christianity a religion from his mouth? Be serious architect! You sound as if you only think with Milla papers.

and there is no concept

If the concept of There is Only One God (proper Name Provided; Allah) is the One deserving all worship, is not enough, then I wonder what is good enough!

and the reasons he gave why there cannot be peace in palestine?

Alhamdulillah the whole of Islam does not live or dies on Palestine. But palestine has a good portion as christian, involved in the struggle of the people against the oppression of the Zionist Jews and their supporters. i pity you, olaadegbu for ignorance; i guess secular/book education does not do the good people will expect of it. I understand that you cant support the musims, since you are not a Jew but a christian, why not support your Palestinian Christians? You sound like loonie tune pat robertson who is blaming the conditions of people of haiti on their alliance with Satan for fighting against their french slave master! He forgot that the obvious stupidity it shows of his pastorial thinking since same idol India who liberated themselves from England are still idol worshippers, yet they are first class citizens of the world, today! How about the communist china, disbelieving Russia, and the buhddist Japan, etc? Some people dont think, but just open their mouth and talk "Gbauuu; lol"

@jcross22: « #5 on: January 12, 2010, 03:33 PM »  

then can we have the name of the scriptures

listen to the video, again; they are all in there.

« #6 on: January 12, 2010, 03:56 PM »  
The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah, the moon god, and especially to Allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between the people and Allah.

Paganism, is different from Islam. Just like Christianity, the new modern paganism is different from semi Paganism of Judaism, all different from true belief; Islam! No where in the Quran or Hadith Allah the Almighty is mentioned as a tribal or paganic or moon (God!), and or Islam takes any daughter, or son, or child/children, male or female for Allah the Sole Indipendent Complete Lord! If you know it, please post it or them; otherwise until then, you are just talking;

The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, played a significant role in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah.

The Children of Israel, by all accounts did not have a specific religion, or a mode of worship except that they were under slavery bondage and not a group of disbelievers and tyrannicals like the Egyptians. Now after sometime, crossing safely the sea, they took up "paganism" by worshipping golden calf. The same people, having the same determination, etc later became the flagbearer of One God belief, under Moses, and many many prophets (AS); David, Solomon, and even Jesus the last of them in that lineage! Shall we take it, still that the Children of Israel, as in Judaism and their offsprings; Christianity are both Pagans, still of the golden calf, since we dont see them worshipping it any more. Or do to we see them sticking with the Original Tabernacle of God, and there is no carrying of the ark of the covenant; are they still in the religion of Moses? Absolutely not. You see, if we cant say that the jews and the Christians are worshippers of the golden calf, we cant say that the Muslims are worshippers of what the preislamic pagans of Makka worshipped. We see that Muslims stick with what Muhammad (AS) brought, while neither the Jews nor the Christians stick from Moses, or even jesus for Christians who took paul instead!

The literal Arabic name of Muhammad's father was Abd-Allah.

I know Muslims with the name Oluwasegun. I know Christians named Oluwasegun. I know persons without either religion named Oluwasegun. I am a yoruba man, with the belief that prior to Christianity and or Islam arriving in that tribe, people believed that there is a God the Creator, More Powerful in Might, Bigger and Higher in Position and Ability to do than any of the tribal deities. So it is no surprising that these preIslamic/preChristianity people might have named their children with names reflecting Olorun, Oluwa hyphenated, showing that the Oldumare, Eleda, Aadeda exists. Shall we now say that Oluwasegun of the christian faith is so named because of the paganic drag of the Yorubas with their using the same name? Jcross22, name a stronger argument than a silly not enough to pass waec argument.

[quote]His uncle's name was Obied-Allah. These names reveal the personal devotion that Muhammad's pagan family had to the worship of Allah, the moon god.

Then it is safe to say that all Jews and Christians can be referred back to the god their earlier people; the exodus generation worshipped; the golden calf, before they have a full directive under Moses to worship the One God! As I read the Bible, I remember that the people wanted a diety to worship, just like the people of Egypt; so they asked that a god is made for them! Please tell me now that you do not worship golden calf, but golden cross that you worship, can i say that you are devoted to golden calf, but turn it to golden cross, instead? But islam does not allow even association with Allah/God/Chineke/Alaaye! God in Islam does not have a beginning, an end, no parents, no children, no partners and completely surfficient, Alone.

[/quote]

@viaro: « #4 on: January 12, 2010, 01:24 PM »

Quote from: uplawal on January 12, 2010, 11:55 AM
this viaro will never accept defeat cos she loves hellfire

Mrs lala, 'defeat' in what sense? In the sense that your misfooted pallies are finding sell-off Jews who can lie for Harun Yahya? That guy up there was lying through his yellow teeth, end of story.

And oh, lest I forget - I was so 'defeated' by his yellow lies. Please find one where the same sell-off Jew was making the same statements before a panel of JEWISH scholars.

did the video just happened up on youtube today, not enough time for a "learned Jew" to rebut him? Of course not. Like everything else, some people will deny the obvious. So even though they agree with the reality, like the Jewish scholar you are criticising, they will not change from what they believe in, to what they confirm to be superior, the new confirmation from their lips (islam; these types of Jewish Scholars are hypocrites, knowing the truth, but refused to follow. Allah's messenger (AS) said if Musa (AS) were alive to hear about my prophethood, he will have to follow me (Surah Imran confirms it by the Oath of Allah taken from the Prophets (AS)), yet other will discover the truth and immediately accepted it, practising it; as we knew of the notable Companion from the childen of Israil (Sahaba AbdulSalaam (RA).

I am waiting for Jewish scholars to disproof the Jewish man with proven evidence(s) from Torah, etc while the same portions of the books will not disproof Christianity! Remember the Jews did not recognise the Messiahship of Jesus. They dont even consider him as a prophet, and it was his mere saying that am connected to God, the same way Moses had been connected that landed him in hot soup of "false death!" dont forget that all the children of israel believed that they were God's Children, or even gods themselves, since the phrase "arent you gods?" proofs it to be a common understanding of that position. I hope that you will not get carried away that your mere statement of challenge to the Rabbi, who has not turned to Islam, is an indictment on him, the Israeli Jews have not said anything against him! We will be waiting for their proofs against Islam, according to the proofs for Islam by the Jewish Scholar.

Tpia, woman, go sidon. You are not sure of anything, except yourself; in worshipping a collection of gods, which you magically [islam detests magic, and magicians] call One God! from that collection of gods, some died and woke up [lol], some is ghost [lol, lol], some is chair bound! is this how you want your life to be; praying to 3 gods?

aburo, o je jawo kuro ninu apon tio yoo. kiriyo oo dara, keferi o sun won.

Usisky forgot that it was Muhammad [as] who acquinted us with Allah, The Almighty. it was the honesty of Muhammad that Allah guarantees, that how you know of what you know of Allah, Quran, things Unseen, and even what you see that you necessarily will not understand with your senses.

Allah says "Oh you who believe, take what Muhammad gives you and stay far away from what he forbids you."
"Oh you who believe, answer/come hastly to Muhammad when he calls you to what gives you life."
"Oh you who believe, obey Muhammad, if it is true that you love Allah. Allah will make your ways easy and forgive you on sins, etc"
"Oh you who believe obey Allah and the Messenger."
"Oh you who believe you are a witness over mankind and the Messenger is a witness over you."
"Oh you who believe the enemy of Muhammad is enemy of Allah, of Jibril, of Mikaila, , "
"A prophet has now appeared among you, he is concerned about your not hackening to guidance, worried about the condition that disbelief will put on you (in the day of Judgement), he is a means of forgiveness and mercy on you."

what will father Abraham, friend of God say since he fought the enemies of God, on his return Melchezdekeh king of Salem prayed for him? What will God Almighty say Who commanded His prophets (AS) to lead wars against disbelievers?

What a terror!

You people must not know when to speak the truth!

what would biblical moses, samson, david, solomon say to the accusation of a religion that prosecutes war or wars as appropriate?

Skyker, you let Riff Raff educate you? What you will have from Riff Raff is riff raff education:

Listen if a manwere to come to my home to want to rob, or wants to hurt my people, or if an enemy were to fight me in battle, if I have a chance to overcome him, I will hurt him to a point that you will see fear of anger on him. That is terror, because if he had a chance, he will snuff off my life. I am even a kinder person that I only terrorize him! He is not dead because he was able to say that he experienced terror from me, while if he was me, the condition is dead man dont talk!

When I terrorize him, he will never dare to cross my path, ever! For him and those who think like him, I am a mercy for them. if they were in my shoes, they will kill me.

Oh, hypocrites, you do not say the truth, but lie through your teeth. Even america terrorized Iraq with shock and awe, of the first night, even prior to the official first day of invasion. Thats terror.

@Olaadegbu: Which of the two Jewish people truly looks like a religious Jew, if you were to coming towards them and you were told to identify a Jew, from a far?

It must be the one with Big Beard. No?

The clean shaven Jew reminds of the Jewish heart Surgeon in Jaffa, who has a PIG FARM. I saw him on CNN special sewing up a deboned stuffed up Pig, which he put in a baked oven or something like that (I looked away, after a time, feeling like throwing up at the sight). After its done, you see the "society people, the incrowds" on a lavished table to eat it. Yawwwk!

Do you think the bearded Rabbi will eat pork, or the clean shaven guy, whose only remote Jewish wear was the Cappi, or yamukah on his head! This is your symbol of truth, Olaadegbu! He reminds me of the holywood/Beverly Hills type "reformed" or progress Jews, not Labonivitch of late Kahani (Laanatullahi alal kafiriin), but that of just jew by birth and name and tongue only, not by belief and actions.

@No2Atheism: « #22 on: Today at 02:08:42 AM »

- Alhaji . . . Jesoul is not your girl . . .

She is my girl, in a term of endearment way. I can be in boston before its daybreak. You have to have a tiring Journey to arrive there. Since she is a Nigerian, I have big name nigerians there already. Am sure she will know some of them. Or some older people she knows will know at least one of them: Balogun dodon dawa! Thats a hint!

- Ask Jesoul herself and she would tell you whether i have lion hearted courage or not . . .[/quote[I dont have to go that far; your post on this thread tells me and many your courage or lack of it, in your heart.

- Romance does not scare me . . . far from it . . . it comes naturally for me . . . THE POINT I HAVE TRYING TO MAKE IS THAT I AM NOT A CONFORMIST . . . HENCE HOW I SHOW MY LOVE FOR A WOMAN IS NOT THE USUAL STEREOTYPICAL MANNER.

There is nothing sterotypical about romance, just like the taste for a specific partner. In all its variants, there is a common thread; the happiness of the other person. When you are not lovey dovey, I wonder how you express love and romance?


[Quote]Alhaji . . . i hope you do not have other intentions for Jesoul . . .

whatever. the peot knows my intention, as i have expressed it above. the same intention for you, too.


[/quote]

Emeka is a confirmed hypocrite who understands when he wishes, and most of the time, a "i dont understand man!" Whats so incorrect and not understandable in what Abu Zola wrote, above? You cant understand him saying that if for some "God forbidden way" he were to become a Chrstian, he would just be become a saint; like Paul, who used to be Saul, a hater of Jesus companions.

He used the even today's Nigeria similitude of jailbird Obasanjo to presidency to illustate it. Where did Abu Zola lose you? I may also have lost you there, since we are both Muslims, and you want Christian type english writing! I wonder what you will say of the German, Italian, French, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Indians, Russians' english text, too? Alas, they have something to say about the situation of the world, even in their bad english. Chinese study in the University in Mandarin. The Italians in Italian language, the reason our people always go to language school first when they arrive in those shores!

So the person who studied Arabic will not master French, jsut like the person who studied Igbo will not master Hausa!

@No2Atheism: Your wife will be a woman that either suffers silently or a woman who has no knowledge of what romance is, all because you lack the lovey dovey genetic trait. I thought that Jesus taught love and in a gentle as a dove way?

But with such a short attention span, no wonder you cant enjoy what "the wiseman King solomon" was saying. I see the reason what I write always fly over your head. My girl JeSoul is taking you to school, yet you cant even have a "lion hearted courage" to read it. You are scared almost out of your own skin; wow, man.

@JeSoul; Its the bohemian poet in you that is making you such a distinguished "preacher/teacher". If only it was the real deal. Just if only!

@Theseeker: « #100 on: Today at 10:25:51 PM »  

@olabowale
Did Mohammad perform thousand miracles as claimed by Abuzola?

Yes.

If we are to go by test of prophethood as presented by the Jewish woman then Mohammad failed the test of prophet because he ate the posion,

He did not die immediately like those who ate it with him. Thats a miracle.

his friend equally ate from it and both of them consequently died from the effect of the poison.

Consequently, meaning a span of 3 years? Wished Biblical Jesus, according to you could have consequently not died immediately like the thieves nailed beside him. That could have been a miracle. Further, he said, according to you he will wake up after 3 days in the belly of the earth! Do you take a dugout, which is what a cave is as grave? He did not even stayed in the cave for 3 days as he said he will stayed in the belly of the earth! I say, dugout, like the one in a baseball park does not qualify as grave. friday evening to sunday morning is not 3 days according to jewish people's calender of evening to even for a day; then you will have up to Monday evening when it will be 3 days.

So mohammad was a fake prophet from the jewish woman point of view, because she reasoned: how can a true prophet of God eat poison?

The conservative orthodox Jewish rabbi, even now on "Jewish Rabbi confirms Islam" in this section proofs that the religion of Muhammad (AS) is the religion of Adam (AS), the people who succeeded the flood along with their leader Noah (AS). We have been saying that all these while, as a religion preceeding Judaism, Christianity. A rose by any name is still a rose. Call Islam any name, before you say it is Islam of Muhammad (AS), it is the same Islam that was practised and preached by all the noble men of the olden days; Ibrahim, Musa, Daud, Sulayman, etc and Isa bin Maryam (AS)! THis is enough to proof that your wrong understanding of what the Jewess of madina did! If Muhammad was not a prophet, Allah would have not allowed him to survive, while others (RA) who were not prophet did right there!

how can a true prophet not being able to help his friend?

How many friends of Jesus, your human god he couldnt help? Judas the betrayer, he could not help him to do evil. Peter, he could not help from the disease of doubt. The other one, he could not help from the disease of denial. The thief who believed in him, he could not help from dying. The thief who did not believe in him, he could not steady his heart, increased him in faith, he could not. I guess the statement By my own power, I could not do anything, said Jesus really came alive, here.

Mr. Olabowale do you think Mohammad pass the test of prophet as presented by this woman?

Yes! The woman's intended result did not happen; Muhammad lived for 3 years after the fact. He died of complications not only of poison from the food, but included old age (63 years in not 60! and much much older, almost twice 33 years), and many others.

@Theseeker: « #98 on: Today at 05:18:08 PM »
[Quote ]You can not fool anyone here. Mohammad try to vomit the food immediately,

[/quote]Try does not mean successful. Afterall the Jewish woman produced the most potent of all poisons; she wanted to get read of him, immediately. Muhammad (AS) being a human being is susceptible to any and all conditions that apply to humans, except what Allah wishes to use to prove his Propphethood, or just prevent him from.

that might be one of the reason why he suffered for three years before he died.

If this was the reason that Muhammad (AS) according to you survived with all of that poison for that long, then from a secular non religious point of view, he was a wise man. If other prophets whose lives where snuffed off had taking precaustions or when they were cornered tried to apply safety measures, it may jsut be a proof of their smart. Jesus of the Bible begged, cried, prayed, praised, wept, yet he was captured and could not escape "the cross". This is according to your Bible, in addition that he died. I am asking you, why was your god not as smart as Muhammad, a mere human prophet? Why couldnt your god be able to help the thief on the right to escape death, while the left thief was not forgiven because he did not recognize your god, but the jewish woman recognized Muhammad as a prophet, just that she was bitter enough that she felt like her poison will confirm it or disproof her position that Muhammad was a prophet!

Another reason is that he sort help of his friends to get cure but there are to no avail.

Whose help did Jesus seek; his partner; the other gods, one of them he cried out to "my God, my God, me", where is the statement of my father or my co-god?

[Quote]If Mohammad perform thousand miracle as you falsely claimed, why cant he help out his friend Bashir that ate the poison together with him? Poor Bashir was coping a hypocrite friend who try to vomit the poison he ate .

Did Bashir vomit? Did Muhammad vomit? Everyone has a means of death; Bashir's (RA) was right there. Muhammad's (AS) was 3 years later. Did any prophet in the earlier times have his life extended when it was certain to all that he will die? You said Jesus died before the day was over; Muhammad died 3 years after! if these two events were signs of prophethood, Muhammad passed, especially when his co-victims of the poisoned died, immediately! While you accepted Jesus who expired on the cross as god, you couldnt accept Muhammad with a bigger miraculous sign as prophet! It seems to me that even in bright sunny day in the summer, you are still blind!

Jesus on other hand cure people that close to him of their ailment, he even raise a dear friend by name Lazarus from death.

Yet Jesus could not cure himself, or prevented his own death; truly physician cured thy self.

Imagine what Jesus did on the night he was to arrest, he even heal one of his enemy whose ear was cut off!

Rubbish! What did Jesus do for himself? Nothing. Yet he cried, complained even to the heavens, to no avail. The result, according to you is that he died; "my God (not my Father, and not my partner), my God (yet again), why, forsaken me!"? Thats a god?

@the_truth: « #24 on: January 07, 2010, 03:38 PM »
[Quote]Olabowale can you define the term Adulterer ?[/Quote]Adulterer, adulteress, are people who sleep with people whom they are not married to, as legal spouses. A woman has one husband at one time, until devorced. A man has possibility of marrying more than One wife. Multiple wives are allowed in many cultures, and many religions do not oppose its practices. Islam is not opposing it.

A good christian is not an adulterer, but all muslims are. Polygamy is adultery. Nearly all muslims practice polygamy even when there is no need for it.

If there is no need for polygamy, then every man will only have one wife, in ideal condition of man/woman ratio of 50/50 in marrying age range. There is no society with that utopia. Hence polygamy is always possibility in any and all cultures and religions, if people are honest, except we have hypocrites of One wife, but backdoor many girlfriends, the reason we have "love Child syndrome." Jessy Jackson has his. So did Martin Luther King. Many of you girls have secret lovers. I dont. None of my muslim friends has any, while most of these men are american blacks, whites, etc. Polygamy is not adultery!

Marriage was God's institution right from the beginning, so Muhammed have no right to tell anyone to marry four wives.

Muhammad (AS) is in the best of company; Noah, Ibrahim, Isiaq, Yaqub, Daud, Sulaiman, etc!

The Holy Prophet being the 'last prophet' is also subject to interpretation ,because his prophethood depends on GOD,so if he(prophet Mohammed pbuh) says he's the last & God Almighty decides to send someone else nko? Is your faith based on the Holy prophet or on God??

Allah says in the Quran that "Sunnatillahi Tabtila. Sunnatillahi Tahwillah. In both cases what is expressed is that Allah's way is Unchanging. So when Allah says "Kataman Anbiyya"; seal of prophethood, then He will not renage on His statement. When Allah says that His Favor on mankind is made complete on Quran, all of these are saying that there is no changing, and there will never be any more Messenger, Prophet, Religion, Spiritual Book, or any Guidance from Him, after what is given to Muhammad (AS). "Inna tukliful mi'ad: Allah will never renage on His Promise".

Also the HP asked muslims to read the gospels,yet the gospels point clearly to Jesus,so which one will you accept?

Never a single time, from Allah in the Quran and or Muhammad (AS) from Hadith mentioned that the Gospel, or earlier Books be read by Muslims of Muhammad. All that was said is "belief" in them, which goes to that point in time that the Book(s) was/were with the Messenger, Prophet before corruptions entered it/them; the many writers who changed and entered what they wanted, including all the extra entries; Acts of Apostles, The Epistles, others on the Revelations and even the others that the Catholic/orthodox has/have and the Protestants dont have them!

As per Jews that believe in Jesus,please google 'Messinic Jews' , also the Trinity which has being a bone of contention on NL,there are christians who do not believe in the Trinity ; check UNITARIANS.

I know the majority of Jews dont believe in Jesus. Infact no one of the Jews I know believe in Jesus. No Jews in the governance of Israel believe in Jesus, he will not be allowed to sit in there.

So my point is we only know so much and calling one thing pristine may be a misnomer if analysed objectively.

You are correct here. Especially its all acceptable in Christendom.

[/quote]My point about culture ,traditions mixing with religion has to do with certain practises that can be called 'islamic' whereas they may actually be cultural,these may be classified as 'pristine' e.g burying the dead same day,women covering etc.[quote]

Burying is not cultural, but we know many Quranic verses (Surah Azhab, even Imran), ahadith that support immediate burial, and discourage any unnecessary delay. Mourning is limited and prolonging the burial will encourage prolonged mourning. Covering are expressed in Surah Azhab and Surah Muminu.

my mother is in her 80s. maybe if there is a woman in that age that is good enough I may just marry her. afterall, it is not all about sex. do you have somebody that old that you know who is still in the running for romance? InshaAllah, when I am in Nigeria, I will want to meet her in your company for introduction, so that I can pay dowry for her hand in marriage. Am sure there will be a lot of her sons or daughters teary eyed, maybe you will be happy that you make the introduction!

some animals do walk on two legs. am sure the grandchildren of the woman will want to meet me; please make sure that they are well behaved people, unlike you.

amuni buni, eron ibiye; ibiye loju kon, eron e loju kon. I ignore your elewon commentary because if i respond, it will be personal, since I think it will be better that i preserve you so that you can introduce me to that Ko sa rugbo nGhana woman in my mother's age that you will introduce me to.

Allah said: Take a fish in a large basket (and proceed) and you will find him at the place where you will lose the fish. What is so interesting is that the fish was already cooked, for the future meal).

So Moses set out along with his (servant) boy, Yusha' bin Nuin and carried a fish in a large basket till they reached a rock, where they laid their heads (i.e. lay down) and slept. The fish came out of the basket and it took its way into the sea as in a tunnel. The servant boy was looking at the cooked fish came up alive, wiggle out of the basket and took into the sea, swimming in its escape. The boy was speechless and caused to forget the event

So it was an amazing thing for both Moses and his (servant) boy. They proceeded for the rest of that night and the following day. When the day broke, Moses said to his (servant) boy: "Bring us our early meal. No doubt, we have suffered much fatigue in this journey." Moses did not get tired till he passed the place about which he was told. They had became hungry; like every human, they needed to eat

There the (servant) boy told Moses, "Do you remember when we betook ourselves to the rock, I indeed forgot the fish.A miraculous sign for them to mark their destination, so they have to go back to it, tracing their footsteps on the sands of the coastal path of the sea back to the ROCK

" Moses remarked, "That is what we have been seeking. So they went back retracing their foot-steps, till they reached the rock. There they saw a man covered with a garment (or covering himself with his own garment). The footprints were left on the bank, so it was easier to just retrace their journey back to the rock. Allah brings dead from alive, and so alive from dead. Has anyone looked at the conditions of the vegetations from dead of winter, to luscious vegetation of summer, passing through rebirth in Spring? Has anyone considers how dead vegetations of winter is a result of luscious summer beautiful vegetations that passes through fall/auturm? Such is the Power of Allah, that we see His Ability to repeat His Signs, again and again!


Brother Abu Zola, may Allah reward you for this effort of yours. Amin.

Toba when will you follow the footsteps of Paul, the eunich? I know you cant follow the footsteps of Jesus, your god, because that will be too much! Anyway, Jesus son of Mary, your human god did not even marry anyway, so what the calabash?

If you hang this way, you boys will be bad husbands. And your wives will be miserable because they are married to husbands who do not have good husband/wife, father/children role model(s; Jesus, and or Paul)!

One of my dearest brothers sent me this as email, on the issue of Roma Polanski, a frenchman, who is under home arrest in Switzerland and wanted in California, USA. What is so interesting is that France is conservative Christian society enough that though they are catholics, and we know that the nuns wear some coverings, unlike the protestants who are almost, always nude, France turns liberal in the effort of absorbing and europeanizing that she does not want Muslim women's coverings. Yet the same conservative Christian society, France suddenly turns ultra liberal when it comes to sex, and harboring sex offenders wanted in other societies (USA)! This is at best hypocracy, and at worst pure evil!

What is so interesting is that while California wants Roman Polanski, the Hollywood elites are standing firm in support of him, the extradiction, and of course, the trial, if and when it happens. As we know, hollywood movies dictate the moral pulse of the USA, and Europe and by extension the rest of the world, at leat in the past say 50 years. The people who run hollywood are supporting Roman, and so I wonder if Polanski had married this 13 years old girl before he slept with her, sorry raped her because she was not a willing participant, would the state of California will still be after him?

salaamu alaikum:

take a look at the article below that I emailed to myself. Now, we know how the non-Muslims love to talk about the Prophet's marriage to a young Aaisha.

This article is about Roman Pulanski (learned his story several months ago), the director who pled guilty to having sex with a 13 yr old girl and then fleeing to France for safe haven. What I found interesting about the article is how it romanticized the story a bit. Uses word like the 13 yrd old (Pulanski was 40 at the time) was precocious, as if she wanted to be raped. The articles makes a passing reference to the fact that he got her drunk, stating that they had "champagne and a Quaalude for refreshments" as if this was some willing adult or wife that he was trying to seduce. They fail to mention that it is believed he also drugged her. Very interesting how they add that she had been drunk before and not a virgin and that in one culture it may be illegal but in another it is legal.

Enjoy

Here is my two cents: Prophets were Messengers of God to humans. They themselves do the things that they were sent to convey to humans. If they do not do these things, it would have been the case of "do as I say", definitely not do as I do. Those who did not do these things among them, how could they say they were "good role models" of what is good that man must do? It would not be surprising that a person who never gets married may actually have more followings compared to the messengers who got married from those who prefer not to get married.

@Tudor: « #42 on: Today at 02:55:59 PM » (the man who parades himself as a woman, without rhyme or reason, except to show his non conformity. You are a funny human being, but still better than Davidylan who wants Nigeria to become the USA's 51st state or something like that).
[Quote]I don't think the our universe is an isolated system as it were. . . . I was taught a truly isolated system does not exist. . . SOMETHING must have caused the big bang, what it is, we do not know.[/Quote]A person who gets a lesson/lecture, but he still comes out with some unknowns, like you have just stated above, shows that either the teacher or student or both have incomplete knowledge about the subject. Look Tudor, what you are thought is what you know, and not more! If you speak Yoruba language, being my mother's tongue for example, I think it is the best of all languages, if I ignore the spirituality of Arabic because it is the language of Quran. But an Igbo woman, for example, Ohsisi will completely disagree with me, and rightly so, going for Igbo as the best language on earth. I remember her saying that who wants to speak Urhobo because it has Vu, Vu, Vu sound, on a thread which was expressing concern about the rapid disappearance of the language from the tongues of the people who carry her blood. Ohsisi, I am not criticising but using the statement to illustrate that knowledge is limited and not absolute.

Tudor, again, you are saying that SOMETHING that must have caused the big bang is what you dont know. The SOMETHING is a Causer must be bigger and more powerful than Big Bang, and what comes out of it. That SOMETHING, CAUSER is GOD, which you always try to factor out of your argument. Since you dont know, today and right here and right now, HIS NAME is ALLAH, in Arabic, OLORUN in your mother's tongue of Yoruba! He is our Creator since you even believe that He caused the Big Bang to come into play!


[Quote]And you have evidence to show this so-called 'slowing' is magically caused by god?[/Quote]If God made the Big Bang come into existence and according to you all this are therefore as a result of it, the Big Bang, then the slowing down is also a result of it, and the One Who causes the result, the slowing down is the One who caused the Big Bang. That One is GOD, ALLAH, CREATOR!


[Quote]Its possible during the expansion of the universe and subsequent formation, destruction and reformation of the galaxies, planets etc, life sprung up as a consequence and after millions of years of evolution for survival and voila! Man is here.[/Quote]Are you for real? Its possible, and viola, man is here? Ridiculous. You are just guessing and guess work has its pitfalls, and your above is a classic for it. Get it together and come to Allah, man!


[Quote]Science only tell us what occured after the big bang, prior to that we know nothing and it'll be immature to make uninformed views including attributing it all to an arab magician in the sky.[/Quote]There is no arab magician in the sky. Magic is forbidden in Islam, see how the magicians of Pharaoh were debased? And you did not know what happened before Big Bang is a proof that God was existing before it, yet your heart will not allow you to accept the correction now that you told?


[Quote]It's entirely possible!
In my view the idea of an external creator[/Quote]Creator is not impossible, except that you want that Creator to be an internal, instead of the more logical External? Do the makers of Airplanes the airplane itself or reside within it? Are they not external, away from it?


[Quote]
(whom we don't fully understand) is more plausible and more probable than the idea that a fly could emerge out of that disorder that was the big-bang.
To me its better to say i don't know rather than believing you've got a sugar daddy in the sky. [/quote]A sugar daddy? An entity that cares is now a "sugar daddy"? Could it not simply be caretaker? Allah is the Altimate Caretaker!

ANACIMERA is the beverage that intosticates nalydivad!
   ^^^^                                                              ^^^
Read this backward, people!

Thank God the rest of Ngerians in Diaspora are not like davidylan.

The (Chinedum) Nigerian Ameican football player for Cincinnati Ohio Bengals, spends his off season in Nigeria. He was brought up here, yet his root in Nigeria, he will not forget.

I guess Americana is not the beverage that intosticates him. Unlike my man, David!