₦airaland Forum

Just my casual observation, as a layman and a beginning student of religion:

So, as it is, I started out by pointing that in Matthew 23:9, the Lord taught that we should call no man on earth "father", which is clear in context that such a term is not to be taken as an official title among Christians.

As I read the summation of that verse, Matt 23 Verse, as it is presented above, I will take it that Jesus was the speaker. But his instruction was that "NO MAN," (any male) on earth, should be called "FATHER." If we have to follow it, what was Joseph the Capenter to him? What do we humans, sons and daughters of our mothers call the men who sired us? Are they not our fathers? Are we, all of us, Christians and nonchristians and oh yes, Jesus himself guilty of this direct injusction from the lips of "Master" Jesus? This is an impossible commandment to obey, if you are a daughter or a son of a man still on earth! Fortunately, my father had long passed. May Allah the Almight make him one of the people of Jannah! Amin. So to all the believing males and females (fathers and mothers), who had passed on as Muslims. Amin.

However, you wanted us to look at all three verses of that chapter - that is, 8, 9, and 10 of Matthew 23. That being so, the words used are precisely as I have demonstrated earlier:

                 8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master (καθηγητής),
                even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

The word "even" throws a dart that stuck on that sentence. It is not clear, what the meaning is clearly. As I read it, it is leading me to believe that but arent you (many from among the people) called Rabbi? And then begin to say that there is a single Master. Even Christ and you (the people) are brethren (brethren as same people; homogenous in culture and language). You will see with better clarity as you read the verse that speaks about God, just below.

9And call no man your father upon the earth:
                 for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Here, you will see that the language of instruction is very clear. Forget for a moment of father, that I disagree with. It is very clear, however there could not be a dart thrown on this verse, as the other one above that starts out with a muddled  effect as one read it. There is no "Even" as a word here. It very clear as a bell, who is been identified as being in heaven. Unfortunately the title of father is wrong and it is impossible to make it unique here, for all the males who boy a child qualifies as a father!

10Neither be ye called masters (καθηγητής):  for one is your Master (καθηγητής), even Christ.

My point on verse is better illustrated when the above is examined. If the word masters were used before Jesus spoke this verse 10, we must be in agreement that there is nothing unique about that title, even as it is further written with upper case M! But the word even but out the smoke that somebody may mistake for a raging inferno.

If a person were to read in a newsprint or some other nonreligious piece, which will invoke a far less emotion, one will not for a moment say the quanity that follows the word "EVEN," is thought of as the single entity that is been made to absorb the quality that is being spoken of, in a loving way, before the word "Even," was written.

We must all have heard at least a person say the word, "EVEN," in a sentence to emphasis that the entity that follows the word even, is not excluded, but rather incorprated into the entity previously spoken about in the action that was prevailing before even, as a word was written.

Let me use the word even in a sentence to show that no one of the entities will have a higher previlege that the others, even though they occur before or after the word even; The wind that was blowing as the rain heavily poured on us, made everyone in the car felt will be blown off the road; even the driver! This simple means that everyone in the car had the same single opinion.

Well, as you can see, I started out with Matthew 23 and the case still stands: the words there are masters and Master (καθηγητής) - same word in Greek; not teacher. There are teachers in the Body of Christ; but only one is Master - the Lord Jesus Christ:

          Matt. 23:10  -  ‘Neither be ye called masters (καθηγητής):
                                  for one is your Master (καθηγητής), even Christ.’

It is on that note that I made the point that we should be careful to not ascribe titles to men which were not meant to be so ascribed.

Shouldn't the semitic materials be the better sources of information, on New Testament verses, rather than labor terrible to use Greek? Not same lange and not same land. Jesus was no greek and his land was not being ruled by the Greece. What came to him and how he preached, neither was in greek language. If Jesus were to be alive,right now, whta would he do if he knows that Semitic language is abandoned for Greek, when people speak about his ministry, his works?

It is interesting that I see that master and Master are exactly the same in Greek. Do we truly know what the Hedonic or Helennic people have done to please their raw emotion to that they could fit Jesus mission to their own culture of man made gods they used to worship?

@Idupaul: If I were you, I will locate the particular mosque that I dreamt about. I will go inside alone, if it is open and not locked up. I will do this probably when I know it is not their prayer time, just incase I am not sure of my own strength in my own present faith and belief. I will like to see what is inside and how i can relate it to my dreams, about this place.

If I am steadied in my faith and belief, I will actually go to this mosque when I know that there will be somebody there. Maybe at their prayer time or just after it, whereby I can ask questions while I am having my own private observation of the whole place, its people and my own dreams.

You may not be able to resolve it unless you locate this mosque or a mosque, so that your heart my settle down, at rest and at peace.

I wish you well. Particularly, I wish you the strength and courage to go to a mosque to see things for yourself! I don't see a simple incarnation, as A_K_O had suggested , since you are having reoccurence of this specific type of dream.

@Deepzone: « #10 on: Today at 05:57:24 AM »

Jesus ascended into heaven body and soul. He is not like mohammed that died and was buried in mecca just like they buried Adedibu.

And if Qur'an did not confirm it, I would havenot accepted it. But interestingly, lijah was also lifted up. Abi? So there is nothing unique about being lifted. Even if he was the only one lifted up, it would still have meant a little or nothing to prove to anyone that he is more than a mere mortal. God Almighty is capable of doing what He will.

And Muhammad been buried on earth has no bearing on his prophethood and being a beloved to Allah the Almighty God. There wer earlier beloved of Allah who was buried on earth, too. Ibrahim, the father of pure faith will come to mind in this case. Just like Muhammad, Ibrahim, Joseph, whom his father, Jacob/Israel and the entire family prostrated their faces to, and, Adam, whom the Angels prostrated to, were all buried on earth! And Adedibu could not be different that these noble prophets (AS).

Finally, you have seen some mummies in Egypt? There people refused to bury them. You have also seen some people who were cremated? Their people, too, refused to bury them. For not been buried on earth is not a sign that one is not human!

These men Muhammad (AS) saw in his Night Journey to heavens and back; Adam (AS) on the first heaven. Jesus and his cousin John on the second. Idris on the third. Let me spip couple of heavens to sixth and seventh.

Moses on sixth and Ibrahim of seventh.



[Quote]
I just asked you a question and you resort to bashing. I cannot bash here b/c I don't have the license to this section. mind yourselfooo. If I'm a dominatrix, is it your business? Am I dominating you?[/quote]I am bashing you. If I bash you, you will know. I am just reminding you of your duties. I will mind myselfooo. I just dont want you to be a dominatrix. Owe Yoruba: A ji se bi yooba lanri. Yooba o jii se mi enikankan. Oni lati bimo. Tori won bi wo ni. Iwa to ba raa ni idale lo ye kaabayon huu. Iwa egbin won, a ko gbodo mo rara rara.

Aburo. I want good for you.

@Nimshi: Babs787 asked you direct question. Just like I did, in many instances. You failed to answer his question about you calling or agreeing Jesus as son of God. Instead, you are dancing around, and, each step you are changing your dancing style, to a single music genra. Haba! Answer the man's question, like a real man, man!

You tapdance so much that I don't even know that when you are gonna get of the stage. Na wa o. You should be a politician. It fits your personality, because it will be hard for anybody to pin you down to any thing. They call people like trick dick (ala richard nixon) and in Nigeria, you will be Babangida, as in Maradona or eevil genius!

@Tpia: « #4 on: September 27, 2008, 05:18 PM » (SHUP UP ALICE!).

Quote from: olabowale on September 26, 2008, 10:56 PM
i wo omode yi feron owo ju. haba. omo yoruba. lol.


In case you don't know me by now, I tend to jump on the backs of arrant and ignorant tribalists who lack the common sense required for decent conversation.

Kindly minimize your blatantly rude and ill mannered statements regarding tribe. Deepzone does not represent the entire Yoruba tribe, so whats with your ill mannered statement here? Are you afraid to face her directly?

yesterday it was Yorubas lack self restraint. Today its something else.

I don't know the kind of Yorubas or the type of people you mix with, but go easy with your generalizations.

if you have lingering problems with one of your Yoruba wives, then no need to blame the entire Yoruba race on account of your issues. You receive persistent disdain from Yoruba women- so what? face elsewhere and move on with your life.

Are you more Yoruba than me? You more Yoruba family members than me? You lived longer as a Yoruba person than me? Is your ID on Nairaland clearly identifies you as a Yoruba, whereby doesnnt identify me as a yoruba man? Each of these question have the same answer. The answer is no! Get it my id on nairaland is Olabowale, clearly a Yoruba name. You are tpia which can never be a traditional Yoruba name. Stop acting silly.

so annoying. Just because some other tribe pitied your behind and gave you face, person no go hear word again.

If you want to go this route I'm more than ready to travel it with you. If someone makes similar comments about your Muslim tribe, you'll be all up in here crying and weeping

I wo omo yi ma ri mi fin o. Egbe ishu ko ni yon o. Ai lora Ogongo ki she pe kaa fi we ta digberen ku! You should have something tangible to say before talking. Deepzone can respond to me. You are are not are gurdian. And the way i see it, she will not a far away man in New Zealand to do the job in Maryland. Stop you nonsensical.

@Pilgrim.1: Ibi nu e yi ma po ju ke! Aa npe e, o da wa lowun. O ga o.

See my use of majestic plural for myself. Emi Olabowale Eru oloun! I have an opinion that you are smiling, whereever you may be, right this moment that you are reading this piece. This is the beauty of Al Islam; it is AlRaheeq Al Makhtum; a beautifully Sealed Nectar.

Aburo, you said you live in Atlanta, Georgia. You must be familiar with what is known as georgia peaches. Islamic Sealed Nectar is exponentially sweeter and juicier than best ever tasted peach from Georgia. The Makhtum, is out of this world.

Ti ibinu e ba de loo le, wa sha dami lowun. take care now.

@Cayon: There is no way Onajobi is Ibo. I want the Ibo people to correct me, if there is any possibility to it. Onajobi is an Ijebu name. The same as Onagoruwa, of the old national soccer time of the 60s and very early 70s. My email is aqeedahfirst@yahoo.com.

@Deepzone: « #4 on: Yesterday at 04:55:05 PM »

Imam Ali Al-Rida

You remember an Imam in Orule Kingdom? Afterall, they are not all idolators! Alhamdulillah.



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na waah, your wife/ves will appreciate it if you tell them sweet things like this everyday.[/quote]The very reason I encouraged you to get marry. Your husband may even be a greater romantic! But when you insist that you belong to the group of spinters, permanently, how can you experience what is good between legal husband and wife relationship?



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Is his soul still trapped in the grave? doing what there? I thought he has been released to God?[/quote]Is your soul trapped in your body, now? It is Allah's will that he hears the good wishes of his community on him. Was the soul of Jesus trapped in space, while he was transported in full, still alive? It was also Allah's will on him. In the case of Muhammad (AS), the answer to your question is no. Same thing applied to Isa bin Mariam's transport from earth!

And I already answered your "doing what there, and, thought he has been released to God?" questions. There are plenty of things we humans need to know.You need to know, too!

I think mdsocks may have been correct in his analysis of you. Get away from those Dominatrix mindset! You are a Yoruba girl. Oun to yeu lafi weu. Aa ki nba omoluwabi, onile olono nibi tio daa. America is prt of the earth of Allah!

@Pilgrim.1: Aburo. I guess you became the star attraction. Its like the flavor of the month at Dairy Queen. Or is it the latest invention since slice bread? Mo pe e, mo kon sie. O dami lowun. She o binu ni? Ma binu. Iya mi. She o ri pe mo ni suru gon? Tokon e ba bale, kee simi. Ko nshe kristieni nikon lo ni lati ma ba soro o. lol.

@Plus_Queen: « #2 on: Yesterday at 01:43:52 AM »

That was all what God had in mind yesterday.
and this is just the beginning of what that testimony will do.
The word works!

All of a sudden, suga madame, you become my enemy! Chei. This religion tin get your juice going o. Ewoo. I can't but correct you that God's mind encompasses every and all things.

And when you bleed out the anger in you, without any residue remaining, I will be right here. I guess we will find out who is emulating Isa bin Mariam (AS). I am patient. lol. This woman is ignoring me. Chei! I beg talk. lol.

@Cayon: « #87 on: Today at 12:59:58 PM »

Mu$lims are afraid of the truth. The Quoran teaches that the Holy Bible is the preserved Word of God. They just don't want to accept it. . . . hence they are scared of the truth

Peace

The Muslims are not afraid of the truth. Heck, that what the muslims speak. You know that by now, Cayon! The same you who chickened out of a simple visit to a mosque. An expedition you have prepared for with purchases of garment and a cap to match. Let me ask you; will you listen to your mother's plea not to go to a party that you deem important to tell at least the many people on nairaland who heard about your intended visit to the mosque?

And yet the visit to the mosque is more than many thousands of times more important than the greatest partying function you could ever be invited to. It is that many times and more greater than late Michael Forbes birthday bash at in Marakesh, Morocco! Go research it.

And there is no where in the Qur'an, where the "Bible," is called"Preserved words of God" If you can bring it to my attention, I owe you one. If you can't you owe me a visit to a mosque in NYC!

And thre is no reason that the muslim can be scared of anything i the "Bible!" Just to help you to know that the old and new testaments are corrupt, I will illustrate my statement with "charging of interest!" Jesus, turned over the table of the money changers because they wer shortcahnging their customer, by charging interest.

At that time, that law was supposed to be practiced by the OT people. But are practicing it. Thats corruption, right there. When you don't walk the walk, you are considered as deceitful. can deceitfulness, be a 100% truthfulness? The answer is no.

And Jesus statements and deeds were recorded in the NT, as the primary guide for the Christians. Right? Today, tell if the Christians have this particular law in the NT and if they practice it? What is the benefit in knowing the truth and never practice truthfulness? Is that not corruption?

Yet, Jesus said he did not come but to fulfil the laws and prophets before him! He even warned that no one should fail to or encourage any one not to practice these laws and acknowlege the prophets. Today th Christians fail to follow Jesus commandments in both cases. The laws are abrogated by the statement of Saul who became Paul. The prophets who so honored by Jesus are debased to just patriachs and less noteworthy personalities.

Cayon, which tribe is your father? I remeber you said he is Nigerian? Yopu have my email on my profile. Use it.

@Nimshi: « #86 on: Today at 09:01:39 AM »  

Olabowale, your capability for misunderstanding rather elementary things is legendary. It's getting tedious responding to you, but I'll attempt to re-educate you a bit. These're rather simple things; it's almost embarrassing to be spelling them out. It's no surprise that a few have made comments about the lean cerebral fibre of some of your submissions. Sorry, but you've earned it. You find it rather extremely difficult to process non-linear things. Here, another little help:

I agree, especially when those these are clearly borderline deceitful, from a camp that has made it its domain to lie and cheat! You happen to be one of them. You are behaving like a bat; partly rodent and partly bird. Yet both have no commonalities, since rodents are mammals and birds are not. What are you anyway? I can handle the christians direct deceitfulness. You almost act if you are prostituting truth, which is actually a lie. Please don't get me started.

You can't be a disinterested "observer," when you never for once stop bending the truth, so that you can be seen as a good guy. You think that mother sees a huck as a trustworthy caretaker of her chick? You must have misread me. Read me again, for the first time.

1) Of the great prophets, Jesus is about the most peaceful; I had earlier restricted the subjective "great" to the prophets who started a religion. To argue this point is to make a big fool of yourself. Stop struggling against facts.

Lying fingers. Ibrahim started a religion; Islam that fitted his time. He was called a Hanifan. Hanifan being the believe in the sole lordship and godship of a single and complete invisible and unique God. It is further known that Hanifan completely destroys any sincilla of believe that there is any other deity with this single God. And Ibrahim is the only one believd by those who claim to be monotheists, as the "person friend" of God! I bet the christian will have to tell us how their Abraham of the Jewish Torah is the friend of Jewish single God, and when post Jesus religion, Christianity was formulated, this Abraham from the viewfinder of the Christians, he became a friend to First father god separately, since father god is a complete and separate god from others?

Then, the Christians will now have the burden of proofs, to tell us how the same Abraham is a full and separate friend to ghost god, without any dimishing quality from what Abraham has with father god. And of course, the same applies to son god who is Jesus! Get going on this matter, Nimshi. You are very funny. As Ibadan people say; Oo bami nbe!

And i had earlier asked you if in a church, is there anyone greater than the pastor who leads the "flock?" I asked you, and i hope you finally catch up to reason, is a baptister lower thn the baptisted? Think, man. You begin to devalue your stock rating with me. Before long it may become worthless junk bonds. Didn't John Baptised Jesus? Was John not even asked if he was Elijah? Are you a yoruba man? Maybe I need to speak yoruba to you to bring you back to your root?

Who was Jesus going to fight? The roman master? Didn't be "overturned" the money changers' table, their business tool, as he lay eyes on them doing "illegal business" at his father's "HOUSE?" And I read where somebody said that when two of his desciples showed him their swords, purchase with the sales of their clocks, he said that was enough. But they purchased swords as he had instructed them. There there were no need for swords, a thing needed in war, at that time, he would not have instructed them to do so.

Maybe you wanna try, deceitfully (i am very subjective when I talk to a man who i know will deceive me. I always lead him on, with a clarity that he should know that i know that he will not be truthful, unless i force it shamefully out of him), to give me an off the wall explanation "interpretation," of why he asked them to buy swords, while they become poorer when it comes to clothes, except that he as preparing to fight, either as the offensive or defensive platton miltary general? Ogbeni, you will have to try harder.

And Moses did not kill anyone except by the will of his Lord.

2) Now, reread my post; here's the relevant part:  "Important observation, ayinba1. To portray Jesus only in this way is to spread a lie; it is a good deed that olabowale has pointed to it, and your words nail it." Did you miss the emphasis on "only"?

No, I didn't. But did you miss her statement that the "Christians" only present Jesus their god as "meek and a lamb?" Have you ever seen any place that the Christians ever comment on the actuality of overturning the exchangers' table as an act of violence? Or the commandment to purchase swords with the sales of clocks as a preparation for possible miliatry confrontations? Please, don't humor me with irelevantly mundane issues. If you are joking, David Chappel will not have you as an opening act, any soon.

It was there in the original, and it's still there. I mentioned your name because, even though you need no help in making a fool of yourself in decent gathering, you're not always bad, and you could make good points sometimes; this is fair on my part, even the Devil deserves his due.

And in the company of evil doers, the one who hates evil is always an outcast! I feel you. Let me make a fool of myself for the pleasure of Allah. I am vey satisfied with my condition. At least i know what I hope is ahead for me; His Mercy and Forgiveness.

Jesus was peaceful, but it's a great mistake to portray him only as peaceful. He could get righteously angry, like he rightly did when people were messing up in a holy place. There's a more important aspect of not considering Jesus as peaceful, but let's suspend that for now so as not to completely confuse you.

I am able to handle many things together, at the same time. i wan stand and talk at the same time. I can chew and walk at the same time. And just like you see Jesus getting angry at its appropriate place and time, so was Moses. But thats too complex for a simple mind. Sorry. I will not even try, because you will wore me out, asking for a repeat many time, again.



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You'D soon run through all possibilities. Like a spoilt child or a hedonistic adult, you're unable to postpone decision making until you've credible evidence. You'D earlier asserted that I am Shia; now, I must be Christian, or Something. What Something? Your foolishness is close to beign unforgivable; you speak loudly about things you don't know; and you don't know what you don't know; this is like infinite foolishness, and, frankly, it's scary. I can discuss the Christians because I know some of the bible; I can learn from them.[/quote]The "something," about you is because you are unidentifiable. Yet you have not be assured enough to unveil yourself. Again what are you; godless, like the athiest that i I "interprete" you to be? Just come out and stop being evasive. If you can even tell us your position, how can we believe you to even be speaking any truth, when anythingcomes out of your gut? Finally, I do not care for any position that you hold. I was couttingly laughing at your unreal persona.

And yes, I know Jesus the Christ is called the Lamb of God; not only because Lambs are portrayed as pure and rather 'peaceful', but because they also feature in sacrificial offerings; especially, spotless lambs are considered some of the best sacrifices in trado-Jewish culture. Even in the absence of knowledge, you should have figured that.

I am not jewish, but a yoruba boy. I do not have to master their traditions. There is still plenty that i need to know of the yoruba traditions.I see the jews, just a step better than the Christians. Both of them are in clear denial of the true position of God the Creator, and denial or diminishing or exagerating the place of a prophet or some prophets. Whats there to learn about unbiddle unnecessary sacrifice and ritual that are already abrogated and replaced by what is better? And when the muslims think about the lamb label of the Christian on Jesus, what we think about is neither of the "spotless or peaceful lamb", thats trivial. But as a willing and going along without another opinion about the acceptance of his place for the so called "sacrifice or death on the cross" to appease the Christian or old jewish god, who is always tasty for blood, and, in this time, human blood!


Even the son of Abraham who was to be sacrificed did a better job. This little boy did not fight all the way as it was not reported that his father dragged him to the place of sacrifice. He did not complain. And by the way the christian do not even accept neither this little boy nor his bother as  a prophet. But in the case of Jesus, the christian says that he was actually sent on earth for this singular purpose. Should there be any amount of shock when the time came upon him, to take his rightly place in this terrible "Tragic event?" Why did he begged, prayed, supplicated, cried at the garden of Geshemane to the One who sent him? Why instructed his followers to purchase swords?

I think you are reading your material sources upside down. Nimshi, you have to work harder. And while at it, who is greater the, the One who sent some powerful person on an errant, or the powerful person who us sent on an errant? Who is greater in battle, the general who is at the frontline or the President who is in the Presidentail house, commanding the general to accomplish the mission?

But since most of what you know you memorised, the option of thinking things through isn't for you. Look, I may make mistakes - heck, I will make mistakes - but I will learn, and when clearer facts emerge, I will consider changing my opinion.

And so far you are mistake prone. You have made tons of them. Heck, you are entitled to it. We are all seeking knowledge. But I will seek truthful knowledge. I will say that at best,I am a student of religious knowledge, who is a muslim. Alhamdulillah. You should now open your mind as you read. Your arrogance is appaulling! And o se aro Sunday. Lola, O ma sharo Monday. I will need you to not to distract me even more, on Monday morning!

Apparently, that sort of this isn't your thing. Stop making foolish assertions and concentrate on educating your mind; it's a parachute, but right now, it's stuck in your rear; not of much use.

You are right, since I refuse to be seduced to your side. I am already formed. I already know what I want. My parachute is ready to open, when I jump. Except right now am not even in any machine in the sky. I think you forgot to rent one for yourself, and you are already in freefall. This is the reason that your backpack is so light. lol. Oh boy, you will find me foot to foot with you, when you make this silly assertions.



[Quote]
You're laughable. So, where's the insight you got from the brother? Lay it bare here; let's see if you remember much of what you heard at all. And then, we'll see of you processed it in thought.[/quote]Let just say that brother Yahya Ali agreed with the tafsir of ibn kathir. I guess that the laughter is at your expense. And it is your type of person who will encourage others to do evil and say it is no big deal. Yahya Ali is a yank, who became muslim not ever goig to jail. Contrary to what Plus_Queen said! This guy is 65 and has been a muslim since the '60s.

@Nimshi:

Important observation, ayinba1. To portray Jesus only in this way is to spread a lie; it is a good deed that olabowale has pointed to it, and your words nail it.

You are complaining while earlier you had no problem saying that jesus was the most "peaceful" of all the prophets, because he never raise his hands against anyone, as to kill them! You are being deceitful, when you are now have problem that Ayinba1 says that he is presented as "meek and a lamb" by the Christians.

You are a Christian, or something, but definitely not a muslim. You should research it, if you do not want ask the Christians. You find that they call Jesus the "lamb!" Abeg oh boy, enough of that sleekness.

And I discuss your Mutah issue witha a shia this afternoon. You need to read the tafsir of Ibn kathir for better and the correct understanding.

@Chrisbenegor:

Now to the crux of the issue at hand, what is basis for this discussion between Christians and Muslims? None whatsoever! The Christians believe from their holy bible the nature of the personality of Jesus and if this is a discussion between the sects in christianity then fine the floor is open for them but you as a muslim HAVE NO MORAL RIGHT to question that which the Christians have chosen to believe in.

Except when the posts of the Christians are lies against God and His Messenger, Isa (AS) bin Mariam, a prophet of Islam. Further when the Christians attack Prophet Muhammad (AS), there must be adequate response to that attack. They will have to be asked to present their proofs. Chris, you should know the ways of adults. This is not a school yard game.

None of us has seen God and you rely on what you have been told by those who either say they have heard from God or is the Son of God.

While you are playing a passum or outright deceiving us, we the muslims, know that the prophets, were truly elects of God. And finally, there is no son of God!

The christian position is simple God in three forms whats so difficult to understand, its so annoying that you are using physical things to explain the spiritual when you fully well know that one does not even have to go that far to invalidate the totality of Islam. How about you tell us more why there is sunni and shia sects or did the prophet forget to explain that to you.

The case of divisions in Islam is well explained in its proper details in at least one ahadith. The muslims will divide into 72 sects. I know that already.

But the lie that you are telling is appaulling. When you have 3 forms of god, are you actually inferring that the God that chose Moses became three under Jesus? You are a riot. I think the Knesset of Israel will love to hear that. That will be a surprise to all the Rabbis and the religious people of the various Yashivas, around the world!

Any religion that has enough time to directly invalidate another to me is already 100 percent man made.

Now apply the same principle to Christianity on Judaism. When Christianity says that the once upon a time, One God of the Jews is now 3 gods, you will have to agree, based on your argument above, that Christianity is 100% man made!

I would be happy to engage you muslims on what you believe but that would be on my turf which is this particular board, I know the benevolent christians won't mind but I don't want to step on the toes of your mostly ill tempered brothers, and sisters( its a wonder they allow the ladies use the internet).

You whine, too much. Present your arguments. Islam is not shy to engage you. Please start the ball rolling. Did father god of the christian worshipped Jesus? Yes or no is the answer I need. I hope that is not too complicated for you. There is no need for interpretations, here.

Who depended and needed the other entity more, in order to survive? Father god or Jesus?
Who cried to the other for help: father god or Jesus?

@Deepzone: Muhammad (AS), is physically dead to the human understanding of walking on the surface of the earth. But in his grave, his soul is being returned to him whenever anyone says "Salalahu aleyhi Salaam" to him. So imaging what the traffic of this very simple statement is like around the world? It is a 24 hours, all day long. So Muhammad's condition in the grave is as if he is alive on earth.

Further, the Qur'an is the Book given to him. And it was reported that he was the walking "Qur'an!" Further his authentic ahadiths speak to all believers.

Finally, I have dreamt about him, in 2002. And all these time, the face that I saw and my conversation with him, are  clearer in my memory that an event that just ended up with me just this moment! He is beloved by billions. His love in our hearts is pure. And we do not exagerate and we do not try to diminish it. We know his position. He is the leader of Mankind. And the best of all the prophets and messengers. He is the beloved of Allah, and the Angels and the prophets and messengers. He is the Answer to the prayer of Ibrahim.

Is there anyone that can take his place? No. Allah says that, in Surah Ahzah, when He declared Muhammad as the seal of prophethood and the last of Messengers.

Allah commanded His Angels to wish Muhammad blessings as examples for us, the believers to wish him blessings so that we may get the rewards of obedience to that commandment. Allah Himself give Mercy and Forgiveness to Muhammad (AS).

Every true Muslim, keeps Muhammad (AS), in his/her memory. He is dearer to me than any of the goods, and people that I love. Muhammad is dearer to me than myself.

Your thread is a good place for the believers to express their thanks to Allah who has made them muslims. It is platform to express their love for this nobliest of all who had walked the earth.

@Jennykadry, Idupaul: Nothing I said is terrible. Read it and report to Seun, whatever you found offensive. Remember the topic of the thread? Pay attention, guys.

@Pilgrim.1: « #59 on: Today at 02:11:24 PM »  

@Backslider,


Quote from: Backslider on Today at 01:44:44 PM
The muslims is not the issue. Their god is a Coward that is why he made a manual of terror.

Please, please and please, dear Backslider, try not to be too polarized. Even though I am a Christian, I know how Muslims feel when they read things like this from people who are supposed to be Christ-like. No, it is not the feeling of terrorism from extreme groups; but a feeling of further disaffection and alienation. I will guarantee you one thing (I know, because that is where I grew up): when you begin to use such tones, you will never, never help a Muslim find Christ! Go and test it out and see for yourself. It is like what one of my most respected teachers have succinctly stated: it is like cutting off someone's nose and then giving him a flower to smell - of what use is that to the victim? [Ravi Zacharias]

Aburo, Kaaro. For me, I am never offended by the antics of the likes of Backslider. I know them. I lived with Christians. Most of my associates are Christians. But here is the problem; talk is cheap. Tell him to provide his practicable arguments. And even your cerebral types. Your arguments will always be contrary to the nature of human!

And for you, please stop saying that you know Islam, because you do'nt. If you knew Islam there were many things that would have safeguarded you from, many of the things you did wrong while you thought you were a muslim and also thinking some of your actions were for the good of Islam.

I bet you never heard of the ahadith where prophet Muhammad(AS) stood up when the body of a Jew was being carried off for burial in Madina. After the funeral people had passed from view the prophet sat back down. His companions asked why he stood when it was only the body of a jew? He responded to them, shouldn't I not feel for the soul that was called back? He added that that soul should have became a muslim before it passed away. The reason is that he was telling them that every person who died not being a muslim is a sad news. You do know that Muslim belief Kufar will end up in jahannam?

Please, try to be more friendly with those who you seek to help find the love of Jesus. It doesn't mean that you should stop telling the truth. The difference is that we should ask God's help to tell the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). Whatever anyone's deity is, leave it to God Himself. Love, respect, and integrity towards others is what will first attract their attention. But the moment you "cut off their noses", it would be a waste of time to give them the aroma of Christ to perceive.
Regards.

Did you ever read a book called "the sealed nectar?" Its a good book. Go and read it. Then I swear by Allah whose hand is the soul of Olabowale, He who had sent Muhammad(AS) with the way that is straight and direct, in truth known as Islam, that there is no better fragrance than what Muhammad holds. This is why i am personally direct.

And please when you quote to support Jesus, quote directly from Jesus and no other persons! You see that we quote Qur'an, before we quote from Hadith, etc? Try to do that. To give me Ephesian, and any post Jesus earth text is clearly inefficiency!

And finally, there is no love that is higher towards mankind, from any who had walked the earth, than what Muhammad has. Read the last two or three verses of Surah tauba (Chapter 9). Even tough the chapter started without a Bismilla, it ended up with pure expression of companionate. Allah says that a prophet has arrived amongst you (Oh people, mankind). This prophet is so concern about your disobedience to the will of your Lord, since he knows the repercussion of such refusal to worship God in the way He prescibed.


He, the prophet is a means of of forgiveness for you (When you follow his guiding way from His Lord, all your previous sins are forgiven and it is also a road map by which you avoid future sins, if you restrict yourself from anything outside this road map). He, the prophet is a means of mercy for you (If the prophet makes supplication to your Lord on your behalf it will accepted, without any restriction. And in the day of judgement, he will intercede on your behalf; Please read the few verses of Surah Mariam on this matter, where Allah says no one will have the right of intercession, except those whom it is granted.


You made Tashahuud before when you used to be a muslim? This is the process of shefah that Muhammad when he went on Isra wa Miraj. Go and read up them and come back to have a dialogue with me).


And i intend to open a thread to give you acrash course in Islam and just maybe Allah will make your heart and the hearts of others long for the fountain of blessing. (Kauthar). Omo daada ni omo pilgrim yen sha. lol. Tori tie and tori dafidi ni mo she nko yoruba bayi.


@Jennykadri: Instead of asking me if i am here or not, please attempt to answer my inquiries. lol. I know it like kernel. Hard.

@Chrisbenogor: « #5 on: Yesterday at 11:34:56 PM »  

@reindeer
I commend you for finally finding what you are looking for, just a little note of caution, the muslims act the way they do because even for me there is no way you can explain their kind of God to anybody that loves peace. That said I too am on nairaland to search for the truth, pilgrim is a dear friend and I often tell her she is a Nasa creation because she too smart.

I guess that you will have the backbone (Opa eyin) to answer my questions, therefore, since "Jesus", is your "God!"

Well, please tell me if God the father, in the Christian 3godheads ever worshipped "Jesus, your God" at anytime? Please give me a yes or no, and if you wish to explain your answer, you may do so afterwards.

Did the God of the Children of Israel in Torah of Moses, worshipped your Christian god, "Jesus," at any time? I aslo need a yes or no answer, before any explanation if you wish to substantiate your answer.

Well you must never forget that you call these questions upon yourself. Further, there is nothing that the Muslims are afraid of. Definitely, not from Jesus, (Isa bin Mariam (AS)) and for sure not from the total world christian body or all of mankind. There is no reason any man should be afraid of another. We are all creations of God Almighty who is One single Lord.

Now that you have gone into the world of christianity you are just beginning in another search for the truth because even among the people that have peace there is a big tussle as to how to achieve that worship and communion with God, being just a "christian" alone cannot save one according to the christian standards so you will have to put in all other permutations that come with it, old generation protestant, new generation protestant , catholics and so on.

I agree, since there are so many sects with apparent and distinct dogmas or doctrines in Christianity. Sorry I will learn the terms soon enough. And when you are talking about peaceful people, I doubt if Christianity from my own prizm will qualify for it. Maybe the Buhhdist of Dalil Lama. Even them, they do have a human limit to sufferings. Thats what you have to consider in this case. What you people say in theory, you have never practiced in reality. So what good is it that you only mouth it, but your heart and body will never accept it when it really comes down to it?

I love the personality of Jesus Christ, be careful and steady yourself for the next journey that is ahead, as  for me they have not even cut into the core issues that bother me which is the authenticity of the book that is being used.

Even the same Jesus in the Bible reached his limit of patience, when he saw the "money exchangers," on the plaza, doing good business. His action went directly to the ahadith of Prophet Muhammad (AS), where one is encouraged to stop evil with one hands, if one has the power to do it. If one does not have full power or comparative advange to do it, then one should speak loudly against that evil. But if one is extremely weak to do either, at the very least one should hate that evil by heart, without any love for it. This last action is the weakest of the three.

What did Jesus do? He overturned the tables of these "Shylocks," who were taking advantage of the poors among them, even though, they were instructed never to charge interest when they lend. The Israelites call interest Ribas, while the Arabs call it Riba (both languages are semitic, you know).

Interestingly, today, the Jews which is the name that all israelite nations are now known by, are the biggest bankers (The Rothchilds, are good examples), charge interests on every penny they lend out. They even charge interest amongst themselves. This is a very direct example of their changing the words (commandments), from their places in the torah given to Moses. This is an example of the corruptions in the Bible. At least this one applies to the Old Testament. But since Jesus was so animated to the point that he acted out against the Exchangers, you would expect to find this very law restored in the New Testament. Do you have the injuction no to charge interest in the New testament and is it practiced by the total Christian body, which claim to follow Jesus? The answer is no. This also shows that the New Testament is just as corrupt (davidylan, this is for you. Enjoy).


But the same peaceful Jesus, ordered his men to sell their clocks (a physical and tangible article), and purchase with the gain of that exchange, Swords. Sword is a material of war, at that time and era, and region. Today sword is still part of material of war. It was used in America revolution and civil wars, etc. Other forms of it, like knives and daggers are still in use, today. And the military are still using it in ceremonial duties. Remember the the proud, the few the marines? They carry the very same weaponry, swod. Please Mr. Apologist, can you do a better job at interpreting this instruction, from your god Jesus, to the using of "cash," to purchase "sword," as a non physical and actual sword? Please try because I wanna see how you will give me a subjective opinion 'Interpretation," of what a primary 2 child will know, without any parental explanations. Can the cash for sword exchange to mean other than a physcical sword?


These are just part of my iconoclastic argument that will turn your "peaceful" position about Jesus over its head. Maybe when you mean "peaceful," your Bible was comparing him to the hard workers, the earlier prophets who had to struggle to settle the obstinate Children of israel down in Palestine. Jesus didn't have to do any fighting. He did not have any enemy but had a ruler, Rome. It was Rome's place to do te heavy lifting for the nations of isreal (Israel and Judea, after The reigh of Prophet and king Solomon the Wise (AS)). Rome have to defend her protectorate. The same way England fought Argentina in defence of Falkland Islands, off the shore of Argentina!

I am waithing to read from the pundits on these many matters. I will be disappointed if no one will at least try. It will only show that your beliefs are just what they are, but without any root in your hearts.

Nimshi: What are you really? I guess you are like a fair weathered man. Or there is hypocracy somewhere there?
Plus_Queen: How ya body? I will still make demand for my Egusi Stew.
Pilgrim.1: Enikon ni mo hate e. Mo so fun pe ko mo nko to nso. She osha mo onje se?
Davidylan*: Okare. Ojo jumo lo nfeni deni, lo nfola dola.

@Nimshi: « #7 on: Yesterday at 10:18:55 PM »

This part of your post almost completely ignores the thrust of my post, namely: that your submission on Creation is open to misinterpretation.

You said it, misinterpretation. But a sincere mind will punder about the meaning of Allah's statement in the Qur'an about Him being the best of Creators. It simple means that no one else is as good a creator as is? In other words, their creative ability is not up to par with Allah's. Then you should ask why is this so? Has anyone created with using what Allah has provide? Afterall it is He who fashioned the other creators (humans) that you are arguing on their behalf.



[Quote]
First off, not all species of animals were directly created by God. Your examples about the anumals are fine, but could you use the same insight to find such examples for the computer, say? And the television? (I'm itching to ask a question or two about inventors, but I'll exercise patience until the discussion gets that far).[/quote]Te time that you discovered or you think that they came to existence, may not be the time that they actually been existing. It is your limited knowledge as a human that prevented that knowledge from you until you discovered them. The computer is not as powerful as the brain of man. Just imagine hiow man fashion the system of computer technology and its componentsof communications. Its engineering is less ingenious than the engineerin of man as a machine. Its communication is less intricate than that of man to man and man to machine. Afterall, man is the master of the computer. Can computer work by itself? Use this idea about any of your other enquiries.



[Quote]
Is Almighty Allah also the creator of the atomic bomb? Or the creator of Star lager beer? Or the creator of the AK47? These are not rhetorical questions; the answer to them will enlighten me about your reasoning.[/quote]He created everything, by giving you the ability of freewill to create them. You, man used the freewill ability to develop and drop the Atomic Bomb to kill. Star Lager beer, AK47, and others are the same. You as a man could have chosen a peaceful path to settle issues amongs yourselves. That is the part of the freewill that man ignored and engaged in the destruct part so that it becomes a dog eat dog world of survival of the fittest.

You should read a abook titled; Ishmael, by Daniel Quinn. The Publisher is Bantam/Turner.



[Quote]
The important thing is to understand the construct. Once it is seen that the bible calls Adam son of God, or the angels sons of God, then one ought to do an adjustment to the understanding of sonship. I understand why the bible calls Adam the son of God, and the angels sons of God, it is then unwise to argue against the construct. There's no point being dogmatic, or trying to inject preconceived ideas/positions into language and understanding.[/quote]The important thing is the truth. Was Adam son of god? Please apply this idea to truth. What is not the truth can never be true, regardless of anybody's sugarcoating.



[Quote]
Read Chapter 2 verse 260 of the Qur'an. His iman was increased, since his heart was made to understand. There is a true and real Iman, belief and it is different from the wrong belief of the idolators.
Thank you for this reference. There's some feeling for the birds. It is easy to imagine how he must have felt at this miracle. Does the Quran also say anything about Ibrahim's reaction?[/quote]But we are not talking about his feeling, but that his belief system of the Uniqueness, in truth of God Allah the Almighty was reinforced after the demostration of bringing to life the dead bird. His heart finally was at peace because it was demostrated right there for him, as a sign to shore up his faith.



[Quote]
To say that God has a son, amounts to wrong belief system.

That is different from understanding why it is so said. You may disagree with the belief that Adam, Gabriel, and Jesus are sons of God; but the understanding of why such is said ought to be clear. that undertsanding should inform something. It is easy for me to have a discussion with Christians who also accept what the bible says about the sonship of Adam and the angels; it simplifies the discussion greatly.[/quote]What can an incorrect statement or lie about God inform, except fallacy? It does not matter, how beautiful constructed. If God says it is a lie, you ought to separate yourself from such a statement that God is not please with.



[Quote]
Wrong faith.


Even if you say that, you ought to accept that that faith is one that has inspired great changes, with real consequences for people's lives. For example: during a recent natural disaster in one Muslim country, I saw Christians and Christian groups get together to gather and send relief materials; many of them declared they weren't doing the good deed for the sake of it, but because they believe it is a teaching of the Christian faith, and because of the joy of the ressurection; this sounded strange, but it was their declaration. I don't discount such things for nothing.[/quote]Great changes are not always good, especially when it is an ingredient to moral decay. There are some great changes that are of great calamities. But you have your ways and I have mine.



[Quote]
An idolator will tell you that he has faith. But his faith is of the wrong kind. Same with Christianity. The reasons are many, but include the unreal death and ressurrection of Jesus.


I haven't called Christians idolaters; I don't do that.[/quote]But you are an athiest? If you are muslim, you will agree that Christians are a group known in the Qur'an as Kafirun.



[Quote]
Allah says when He and His Messenger have decided on a matter, it is not befitting for a believer to have an y other position. So if amuslim has a different position, then you know that he is a muslim in name only.

What's your point? Your comment appears irrelevant to mine that there are Christians who assert that Jesus is not God (the Father). I don't see what you're driving at. I seek to establish common grounds if there are such grounds, not needlessly aggravating people because of words or constructs.[/quote]Since you are shifting your position as quick sand shifts, I will have to say to you that you rae the one whose comment is irrelevant. We are talking about belief and disbelief, aren't we? I stated and continue to mentain that Christian are wrong in calling anyone son or child of God. You know that you can only have children when you sire them, or adopted them. Which one did God do with any of the so called sons?

Finally, if God says that the non-muslims are disbelievers, kafirun, why are you so timid to accept, except that you are not accepting the Qur'an's injuctions? You can't cheerypick the Qur'an as they do others. Is either that you agree and when you don't then you are not truly a muslim. We call them hypocrites, if the insist that they are muslims, And please my comment thoroughly before you respond. I expected a better response than to say, whats your point!




[Quote]
The reality is that God is One. So those who call themselves or others, god are in manifest error!

Again, you're missing the point; this sort of 'stubborness' (don't mean this badly; apologies; no offence meant) isn't useful for any much. The important thing is to understand, and to use that understanding in communication, and not being holed in one's little, improvised universe.[/quote]What you want is that I change my position so that iIagree with you. Is that it? Sorry. It will never be possible. This is the singuar reason surah Kafirun was revealed. There is no compromise from me.



[Quote]
I bet you forgot - or rather didn't notice - my use of the subjective "great" to qualify Prophet. Did John inspire a religion?[/quote]John was the very man who perform the rite of passage to adulthood, at age 13 on Jesus! And Jesus did not inspire a religion. Jesus very statement was he did not come to abolish the prophets or the laws that were there before him. He discouraged anybody to never abolish these two essential ingredients that he himself preserved.

And I did not read anywhere that Jesus told anyone that they are now Christians and the concept of "Church," is unknown to him. Remember that he did all his worshipping of god in Temples and "Synagogue," and outdoors, gardens? Remember that he washed up and prostrated his face and supplicated, begged or petition and prayed to a greater being, a God?

And the pastor is always the more important in the church that the individual members. The one who performs baptism is always of superior position than who he baptized! Think about it. Can anyone that is baptized by Jesus or in his "name," as the Christian will do, be more important than Jesus, in religious setting?




[Quote]
Did Joseph inspire a religion?[/quote]Joseph was the very individual who has brought the most honors to the nations of the children of Israel! Afterall, the power nation of Egypt, which was controlling 1/3 of the world power structure honored these people for many centuries.
Please remember that the israelites did not enter Egypt except s honored tribes.

You appear to be seeing only what you want to see. . .

Should I see things from your way? I am a muslim. I am not sure of what you are. Your position is unsure. I can not join you in uncertainty.

@Chimechefu: lol. I do not need Jesus, in the manner that you have suggested. I do need the God and Lord of Jesus. Jesus and I are seeking the face and mercy of the same Lord God! I think you may ne too meek to seek such a position, and that is your reason for installing Jesus between you and that Lord God! I and all the people of true faith, the Muminu in Islam, are well aware of our position and our place with such a Lord God. We go directly to Him.

I have to laugh at your post above. Pilgrim will tell you that I do not hate her. She knows that. She will confess to you that I am one of her few sincere admirers. She has strength and I like that in a woman. She is smart, which is a plus and good asset in any person, and, particularly in a woman. If I were to wish for a daughter she is one of the few that i will want that daughter to be modelled after, except the boy craziness. Thats to much for me and i don't need the headache. lol. Some fathers can handle that. But not me. I am super jealous. I will have to have my shot gun at the property gate, hunting rascals after my baby. lol. (I do have a sense of humor, while serious about my viewpoint).

I speak fondly of her in many situations. But that does not mean that I can not disagree with her where there is foundamental principals to be expressed. She was a muslim, whom as you classified my former christian folks who are now muslims as mere church goers, muslim by lips only, without any sincere Iman in her!

That was the reason she was able to indulge in boy chasing. She was not bashful about it at the time, even though Islam calls for sexual restraints. Now she is in a circle, christianity where she doesn't have to restrict herself, anyhow. The only thing she has to do is to believe in th blood, and she could do anything she wants. So do you, too. I guess it is a copout when a person does not want to be conscienciously be responsible for his/her own morality and duties to God. You cowardly seek somebody else to bear your burden. I guess theChristians zeroed in on Jesus for this position.

Heck, I am sure she is a beautiful woman. Afterall she is a yoruba. My mother, and all the women in my bloodlines are. I do have tender heart towards Yoruba women, you know. If I were a tad much younger and she is not so restricted to white boys, I will marry her myself. Since she cooed over boys intensely, I am of the opinion that she will make a good wife, parter and mother. She could have been relieved of the indecision of youth. If she will marry my almost 25 year old son, Olayiwola, I will make sure of its happening, except she has to be a muslim woman, again. My boys need home bound (some day, anyhow) wives.

What am saying, here and now is that I have no hatred towards her. But I can still disagree with her. And I will not stop praying and hoping that she before she dies, and so are all persons I know, including and not limited to Plus_Queen, Davidylan, Backslider, Gamine, JeSoul, Deepzone, etc and yes, you sir, to find your place in the tradition of Truth; Islam.

i wo omode yi feron owo ju. haba. omo yoruba. lol.

@Nimshi: « #41 on: Today at 06:49:18 PM »

It is a good thing to admit to a clear position. This is welcome. I have - on these pages - admitted to error myself. No one is perfect.

When I say interpretation, I mean Pinion. It is always subjective. It may be different from te reality. The christians use intepretation alot. Thats why you all have a different conclusion from the reaity, from them.




[Quote]
Here is where you are in error: the revelation in a24 and a25 are about slightly different issues as explained in an earlier post. And, you're in error to think that Mut'a is fahishah; that, I suppose, is still as a result of your misconception about the practice (not abuse) of Mut'a. Among pious ones, the practice of Mut'a is respectable. Yes, Almighty Allah is ever aware. Mut'a is not harram, and those who practice it are following the Quran.[/quote]Are you a better muslim scholar than any of the salafi salleh? Are you better than the Sahabah? Are better than the Tabi in? Or are you better than the Tabi tabi in? Finally, are you better than Muhammad? Tell be, after The Victory of makka event, did anyone in islamic history, except the Shia who came about as a division during or after the Kalifah of Ali Abi Talib, ever Practiced Mutah Marriage?

If men are even commanded to take slave girls as wives so that they may not injure their religion and or their body, how can you gling to the notion that Mutah was not abrogated by the same verse? Please consider that Mutah, when it use to be lawful, part of the women used in Mutah marriages were free and not slaves. Yet these free women, were in higher honoring place than slaves.

What I am trying to let you see is that since the slave girl is even now honored by verse 25, you will have to know that it can not do less when it comes to the free woman! You need to learn Islam.




[Quote]
Why would you hate the 'behaviour'? Be specific.[/quote]The same reason one hates prostitutional behavior. The same reason one hates that his woman folk is called community chest! Lets leave that alone. It took me almost a decade to accept that another man is sleeping with my exwife!




[Quote]
You do well then; do the deed with good devotion, and don't forget to pray for those in dire need as we write.[/quote]I hate that a soul will burn in hell fire. I pray to The All Merciful every time to soften the heart of many to accept Islam. And for those who abandoned it to come back to it.




[Quote]
This is what you've been advised to do by many on the conversion thread; good. We shall follow your thread and hope your submissions will be insightful.[/quote]I am tryig to learn Islam as well. I am later starter. God willing I still have a good 50 years of mind so that i can master just a little. Then impact on peope whatever little I know of the immense wealth of Knowledge of Islam.

Salam.

Are you are muslim? With two 2 shahadahs?

@Nimshi: « #3 on: Today at 05:39:59 PM »

Let's examine this from the example of the creation of Adam. As this argument stands, we see that God created Adam from some existing 'materials'. This is being done today: "things" are being created that never existed, although with existing materials being used. The concept of "creation" as explained in this post is not "tight".

Allah says that He is the best of the creators. Why? It is what he created that other creators (people) will fashion their creations upon. Example, is mobilities, cars, airplanes, etc. God created Horses, mules, birds and others that human needed and these were the foundamental examples that agitated the inventive minds of the airplane, etc inventors.

Allah says that He is your Creator and the Creator of all that you created. You use Allah's elements that He put in nature, and the brain, sight, mind, heart, indeed limbs that He gave you to use in the production of the things that you call "new things"

However, in honoring Adam over the Angels, Allah taught him, as in revelation, of things to come in the future and what were already on earth. He then asked the Angels to tell Him about them, if they were truthful. They said all knowledge belong to Allah. Then Allah commanded Adam to name them. He did. It is then that the Angels were commanded to prostrate their faces to Adam.

You see what was to come in the future, cars, airplane, etc, Adam was already informed, by Allah. There is nothing under the sun. So if you thing humans made anything new, you are wrong. But you may say that that the actaulization of those things were new when you think that man "invented" them.


[Quote]
If we stick to what is written above, then there is nothing special about being called "son(s) of God" in the bible. Adam was a son of God. Angels are called sons of God. Once we get beyond the resistance to the idea of "son" being associated with "God", we'll see things in clearer light.[/quote]But calling anyone son of God is a mistake. God truly does not have a son.


[Quote]
How is the example of Ibrahim relevant? To which event do you refer?[/quote]Read Chapter 2 verse 260 of the Qur'an. His iman was increased, since his heart was made to understand. There is a true and real Iman, belief and it is different from the wrong belief of the idolators. To say that God has a son, amounts to wrong belief system.


[Quote]
First off, the ressurection of Jesus imbues Christians with a lot of faith;[/quote]Wrong faith.

in fact, the validity of Christianity rests on the resurrection of Jesus; if "it has made many folks lose their faith", Christians are certainly not of that number.

An idolator will tell you that he has faith. But his faith is of the wrong kind. Same with Christianity. The reasons are many, but include the unreal death and ressurrection of Jesus.

I have met Christians who insist that Jesus is not God (the Father); other Christians assert differently. Such disagreements in the interpretation of scripture are not unusual; there are numerous in the house of Islam too.

Allah says when He and His Messenger have decided on a matter, it is not befitting for a believer to have an y other position. So if amuslim has a different position, then you know that he is a muslim in name only.

And, besides, even the bible refers to humans as "gods", thus the use of the lowercase is perhaps trivial.

The reality is that God is One. So those who call themselves or others, god are in manifest error!


[Quote]
This is an interesting question. It is clear (as you note) that resurrection is not unique to Jesus. One thing that comes to mind is the bible story about the birth of Jesus; let's assume for a moment that we are all in agreement that this actually happened. Yet, it wouldn't qualify as something "Jesus did"; I'D suppose that credible answers to your question will have to refer to things that happened after the birth of Jesus. There were many extraordinary events in his life. I have a candidate: of all the great prophets (of course, this may be subjective), Jesus comes to mind as being the most peaceful; I'm uncertain, but he's perhaps the only one at whose hands no other human violently lost his/her life; I don't know if this is unique. Among other things, he was extraordinarily empathetic, even supplying seminal interpretations to the spirit and letter of the law; some may not consider these as the greatest of things, but in the context of history, they're truly, truly outstanding. I shall leave it to others to supply any (other?) truly unique act.[/quote]While you make your statement, I bet John did not come to your mind. Nor his father, too! Could you tell me what either of them did to upset anyoe, ever? John (AS) was beheded for failing to compromise on a matter of adultery. He became a prophet, know so much of Torah by the time he was 5 years old.

Did Joseph (AS) hurt any soul? And by the waythere were children who spoke in the cradle. One of them is the child in the story of juraij. Another is the story in Surah Buruj!

Yes.

@Nimshi: « #39 on: Today at 05:07:45 PM »
My Opinion (interpretation) of you is really irrelevant. If I am wrong it should not changed you. If I am right it only confirms your essence. Interpretations are very subjective.

Perhaps I cannot provide an exhaustive definition. But fahishah is basically indecent behaviour; that could cover quite a range of behaviours, including - but not limited to - acts of sexual indecency. We must note that the most common use is in with respect to sexual indecency, as we read in the Quran at 29:28. Should want to get more specific, do proceed.

Fahishah is also used in Nisaa verse 25, to abrogate verse 24! I read arabic. You will have to agree all sexual behaviour that is bad is fahishah. Incidentally, the caption of the section that deal with verse 25 of Nisaa is captioned; prohibiting Mutah. I do not see why we should engage any further in this wondering discussion. If you like mutah, and you are a muslim, then be mindful that Allah is ever aware of your deallings.

First off, it is not my way to answer personal questions, even of this sort, at a place like this. Suppose my answer is "yes", would you believe it, and without prejudice? And, suppose the answer is "no", does that invalidate the legality of Mut'a? Considering this, would you see why answering such a question on a personal level, could be quite meaningless?

But I consider it a good gesture on your part to even attempt to explore these questions, and I sense that you have some objections to Mut'a along the lines of you asking me if I'D allow my female family members to engage in Mut'a. What're your objections? To reciprocate, I offer the following:

First, it's not a question one "allowing" it; she must be willing; this is important. I will give inputs based on specific observations of each case. Since these are my family members, I expect them to keep to our tradition of being very open in discussing feelings, dispositions, and all that. I'll also expect that they'll remember how we're critical without being necessarily disagreeable, and how we know to respect each one's decisions without seeking to be domineering and forcing our opinion on others. I'll expect that they know we're reasonable, are ready to admit to mistakes and learn from them, and, of course, that when the facts change, a change of opinion must be considered. I won't pretend that all these are simple matters.

Now, are you close to being satisfied? Do you have any other questions?

If you are a muslim, then you will pay attention to what Muhammad (AS) said about each ayah of the Qur'an. You will not also behavelike the Dayyouth, who lack Ghayrah or good jealousy. I am very jealous. So I do not want my women folks to be taken in Mutah. I do not take any woman in Mutah.

I will at least tell hr what Allah says and what Muhammad (AS) spoke about Mutah. My issue is that since i can not force her, i will at least tell her and then continue to hate that behavior in my heart, if she decided to be a mutah ed woman.

Thats all I can do. My role as a muslim is just to warn/inform. I am off to jumu'a. I will then open athread to educate the ex Mustlim champion of the Christian Nairalanders.

@ The poster and others who care to tackle thsi simple question; Who worshipped whom, if any, faher worshipped Jesus and or ghost? Or, Ghost worshipped Jesus and or father? Or, Jesus worshipped father and or ghost?

Please provide you candid answer and why, it is so. The thread is still intact. The qusetion is brough about to better clarifies the position and authority of each of them in the Christian god concept.

Plus_Queen, i miss you already.

@Davidylan: « #116 on: Today at 03:38:29 AM »

Increased immigration, high muslim birth rate, low birth rate among native europeans and apathy for the church is the reason and not conversion. Lets be honest with ourselves.

And what happens to muslim community in Rochester, NY? They are not in high places of specialised isciplines? How about University classrooms of RIT, Nazarete college, etc? I live in NYC and I only have 2 sons, yet Islam is increasing in America.

Is it not ironic that after September 11, many continue to troop into Islam. I think many whites, blacks and others in America will be shocked to hear that there is no significant conversions into Islam. Maybe Hamza Peltier, a White man from Cambridge Massachussetts will be pleased that you are denying his Islam.

@Plus_Queen: Watin they happen to you this woman? Every day na palava. Anyway, it is better that it is only happening to you on nairaland. Alhamdulillah.

Am sure at job and home, the conditions are different, InshaAllah.

@Analytical: I feel you. It will nt be derailed. Unless the confessor, Pilgrim.1 herself derails it. I am keeping up with her.
But where responses are appropriate, we should do so. it is only fair. For example when she erronously told her "Christian boyfriend," (While she was still a "good" strictly observing muslim, she should should have known that "boyfriend" was not the appropriate relation to be established) that Prophet Muhammad derided Christianity, it was worthy of a responsible response to correct her. Not doing so would be admission of that lie.

I guess she was boy crazy. The yoruba in her wouldn't hold down so that she can practice "self restraint!" (Note that i am a yoruba man and i am being humorous. Not all Yoruba woman get wild up about boys).

When she was terrorising her boyfrineds, how can Strong belief and fornication existed in the same heart? Thats what we are saying. I think she is a delight. But where she is wrong, it has to be brought out to her. And here I thought this young Yoruba woman will marry a good Nigerian boy, she just couldn't wait for african boy. lol.

The same thing happened to the Young Igbo girl on TV who a white boy she is dating in Texas made her fall from what was a sure win. What will zina not bring to the life of those who practice it.

@Lite-n-cee: « #45 on: Today at 12:13:51 PM »

The spirit of religion makes people defend what they already know to be lies,

The reason you are forcing Jesus as a son of a god upon us.

and political correctness makes them keep silent over the bitter truth.

I do not practice political correctness. Thats why i declared that you are adisbeliever. See, I am not shy about it.

so tell us , at what time did the Arabs ever use the name Allah to refer to God Almighty in their multi polytheic society ? if they already knew God Almighty,

Since I am a Yoruba man from Nigeria, I will use the Yoruba culture to illustrate my answer to your question. Please follow me. Before any nonafrican religion came to this tribe, they knew that there is a Creator. They call Him Olorun, meaning the Owner of the heavens. They also call Him, Eleda, to mean the Creator. Olodumare, Oluwa are also some of His names.

However when the nonAfrican religions, Islam and Christianity for example came, the Yorubas readily accepted the Name of the same God as Allah (Arabic Language, except that it is a proper name), and Yahweh or Jehovah as the Christians name of the the God. Please not that Christianity foolishly, without thinking that the muslims will ask them, introduced Jesus and holy ghost in the mix, to the Yorubas. But thats another matter completely.


Do the Yorubas still among them, as muslim speak about Allah as Olorun? Yes. Do the Christian still speak about yahweh or Jehovah as Olorun? Yes. Do the animist who still glinging to an idol go between Olorun believes that the Muslims and the Christian Olorun is the same Olorun that they are worshipping? Yes. The only different is tha the Muslims of the Yorubaland already destroyed the idols and went directly to Olorun whose name in Arabic is Allah.


The Christians also already desroyed the african idols, but in its place splitted the olorun into three; One is Jehovah or yahweh (Note I did not even say Eloi, which is what was reported that jesus cried up to before he gave up the "ghost." By the way the ghost was the holy ghost or aniother ghost?), the other is Jesus as a son and and the third is Holy ghost. In all the Christians just reduced their go/stand between from many to just two, if you take Jehovah or yahweh as the Olorun, for real!

what then did Mohamed say he recieved , how can he re-introduced the Allah as God Almighty if they were already serving him in that capacity .

Are you making sense or you just wanna pretend to be talking? Muahhamad (as) came to abolish idolatry. Is that so hard to understand, so that people can go directly to Allah the God. The same way that Shango, or Osun worshipper may abandone that mindset of go/stand between them and Olorun, and go directly to Him.


When they do that, the abandone their old religions of idolatry and took the singly worship of olorun. That is islam. The 369 gods of Kaaba were rendered useless. And later destroyed by the same Muhammad and his followers in establishing Allah the God, in Yoruba language Olorun as Supreme.

ok so you can go to God Almighty through any of the 360 gods in the Kabba and likewise other 1001 gods in various parts of the

If you an Idol worshipper, that is your stand exactly. And yes there are still Idol worshipper still in Nigeria. The Yorubas have Olosun, oloya, Onisongo, Aborisa, Aboogun etc. And they do pray and sacrifice to their idols. And they belive it them and feel comfortable that their prayers will be accepted and answered!

If that is so then this big god that is reached through different smaller gods would have had mercy on human beings and told those smaller gods about Jesus His only begotten son and saviour of world. abi ? .

A I have stated, you as a Christian is a form of idolworshipper. You know the difference between a road side prostitue and an escort? It is their trading style. Both of them are both and sold by johns and pimps, respectively.

you can believe any thing you like but you won't be able to change the word of God.

The how do you reconscile with Mark 12 verse 29, which goes against any idea that there is a god other than the One Jesus worshipped?How do you explain that jesus your god is just another worshipper of God like everyone who bow to that God? How do you have a god that used the latrine like everyone else? Come on man. Talk! I wanna read from you.

please hear this Jesus is the Word of God made flesh,

It is now flesh. Then tell me when this word became flesh, how was it possible for the same God whose word is now flesh to be able to speak to those of His creations He spoke to? How was it that God was still able to communicate to those whose of His creations that He spoke with when the "word,' died on the cross, according to the Bible?

if all those smaller gods are in communion with God Almighty they would definitly have confessed Jesus as saviour , just as all the prophets of the bible confessed and prophesied about him as the saviour. That is the consistency of bible my dear.

The inconsistencies, you meant! Where did Moses who singlehandedly with his stick destroyed Egypt to its former shadow, confessed and prophesied about Jesus as the "Savior"? Your bleading lips must be hurting right about now! And will Ibrahim need any salvation from Jesus? hardly. Reason, The Jews, the Christians and the Muslims believe that Ibrahim is a personal friend of God. While the Jews do even take jesus to be more than a student of Torah or at best a learned of that Book.


And the Muslims say that he is a Messiah to the chldren of Israel and a prophet/messenger. You are the only one of the three groups who believe some othe ability of Jesus. But do not forget that you are using the books of the Jews to argue your case against them. They aught to know their own book more than you ever will know it. They still make it a point to read it in the original language; Hebrew or Aramaic!

So you think Jesus was speaking about Himself when He said "it is finished" on the cross, how wonderful that a man who said He is finished would still rise up from the dead. by the way do "It is Finished" and "I am finished" mean the same thing in your dictionary

If he rose from th dead, the calcuklation of three days and three nights are completely short in simple arithmetics. Calculate how many days and nights in Friday evening to just after dawn of the following Sunday! If Jesus said it i finished, what did he say just before it or after it? If he said something then, you can know exactly what he meant by "it is finished." If he dis not say anything, then it is anybody's guess of what he meant by "it is finished".

Well if you care to know and really if you care to know, Satan if having a ball watching the confusion he creates for those who listen to him, through his small gods. his goal ? - to create the impression in the long run that God does not exist, or that both him and God don't exist. which some hapless ones are already believing. i see him laughing his head off every time these muslims come to mecca to throw stones at a pillar they call "iblis" taking it to be satan , Lord have mercy !!!

You are speaking from ignorance. When you are better educated about jamrat protocol of hajj, I will discuss the issue with you. Shaitan is laughing at you, rather for you saying that God Almighty has a son. Tht a mere mortal who used to defecate is god. And when we ask you, who is the spouse of God if He is a father and has a son through somebody. I have never had a direct answer yet. You wanna try for me?

@Nimshi: « #119 on: Today at 04:12:28 AM »  

Quote from: _Queenisha on Today at 03:42:51 AM
Unlike Muslims who are born Muslims, no one is born a Christian.

Whomever wrote this originally, it is important to correct this misconception.

No child is born a Muslim; no child is born a Christian; all children are born atheist; all religions are acquired.

Nimshi, finally your pen betrays your hypocracy. Muhammad (AS), was the the original speaker of that statement, which are now advocating that it must corrected. First, are you familiar with what is Fitrah of Iman (Naturality of belief). For you since you seem to be saying that you are born atheist, that is what you want your fitrah to be. Your soul, if you have any (even though that I know that you have one. Every one has a soul. Some calls it a spirit, too), already acknowledged the Lordship of god the Almighty Allah when that sould was removed from Adam.

Mine, on the othe hand, with my heart accepts and does not not deny the Oneness and the lordship of the God Almighty Allah. Since you are trying to correct Muhammad (AS), I will take it that your idea about Mutah is a bent statement of unsubstantiated reality of your mind only.  I will respond to you clearer in the proper foum dealling ith it.

Finally, I was born a muslim. I aught to know about what i was born as. I live inside my own skin. And in all my 50 plus years, and with all the allurement of the non-muslim women, especially the Christians, never once did my heart gravitated towards any other religion! I know who I am, but what are yiou. And you can't speak for me. Speak for your godless and ever denying heart. Mine, Alhamdulillah is strong. I am what they call Daiyy of islam.
.


@[reindeer]: « #120 on: Today at 08:49:16 AM »  

R we still responding to distracting posts here?
there are some posts that arent worth reading on this thread since you know they wont add anything to the topic so please I'm advocating the 'scroll-on' principle

Thats a copout and defeatist mindset! Since you know you dont want anyone to tell you reality that under the bandage that Pilgrim.1 is showing you, regardless of well wrapped there is an incurable and unhealing sore! I aught to know. My mother was a christian until few years ago. I aught to know Zainab, an Owerri princess, who is a UN Lawyer was a Christian until March of '06! I aught to know because there are others in my life who turn away friom Christianity after they have been that all their lives, before we met.

Muhammad did not promise anyone that if they do evils; like Adultery, Fornication, stealling/thiefery, and others, that they will not be punished if they do not repent, shun those kinds of behaviors. He promised forgives and mercy by the god alone, directly. And he cancelled medium concept and blood redemption of the Christians and Jews, etc! This religion, Islam is the only one that you can approach your Creator, without mentioning anyone along with Him, when you ask and demand from Him! Is God not the Jealous God of Moses in the 10 commandment? Is God not unseen, in the same Torah? Is God not said to be uniquely different from the creations? Is God not the knower of all things?

Then did Jesus know the time of the hour when he was asked?
Was Jesus not like evry human?
Was Jesus not seen with the naked eyes?
Was Jesus not reported to be an incomplete god that needed a parter?

While the God of muslims, is completely different from the above that Jesus happen to be, the same God of the Muslim does not defecate, because He is beyond that Human function as the creator. But Jesus did defecate! He ate, too.

whenever you see them just scroll on!!thats especially for david and quenisha.
this perhaps is the most impacting thread ever on this pages i wont want to see it spoilt with unneccessary arguments,please let the contentions go on old threads or open new ones for them.

No one is spoiling any thread. I and others like me are just responding to falacious misgivings. I know the hindus and the Jews and others pray to their gods whenever they are in need. That includes the time of sickness, etc. And their gods answer them. The African traditional worshippers experience the same thing with their gods. The atheist, this is for you Nimshi, agitates his own mind to get the desired result! Often they work.

And yes, not all the prayers of Christians are ever granted. So to use this single experience of Pilgrim as a foundamental yardstick of godship of Jesus, the hindu will have to be able to use theirs as well. Inshort, God is uniquely different from of the things that man can ever encompass with his mind.

Is it unusual for a person to be extracated from a situation until they are fit for it? Pilgrim had romances, when this very thing is frowned upon in the Qur'an. Is it not a strong enough reason for the iman in her to go away? She was practicing Fahishah; a lewd thing. A Nigerian Nupe lawyer in New York was telling this morning that he knew that having boyfriend and or girlfriend was not acceptable when he was not even practicing Islam! You will know it in your heart that such an act was unacceptable and it does not elevate a soul toward purity. I guess Jesus will cover you on that one, since you claim that he will cover you on any and all evil as long as you believe in his death and ressurrection! lol.

keep it coming pilgrim.1

i miagine God must have a big smile on his face.

Is the face like your face? Enquiring mind wanna know!


@Backslider:

The manuscript of Evil and Terror is the probelm not the Arab or Muslims. The only way to defeat the hatred is by saying the truth with love in our hearts and pointing the way by the Holy Ghost power.

Which truth with love and which holy ghost? Please know that the biggest propagator of Christianity today, is the nation known as USA. From this country, among other form of christianity, you have Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, 7 day adventists sprouting from it. Yet, they will not wait for any to slap them on the right cheek before they do a " beatdown" on a would be slapper! Where is the love you promise me, then? (Thats an old tune to illustrate a new and prevailing idea). Just continue to live in fancy fantasy. Just remember that Jesus to many I do not know you. I guess the few he knew were his companions, the true worshippers of the same God that Jesus worshipped. Or will you claim that Jesus did not worship a God? I wanna see you do that!

@Nimshi: I see what is happening here. You are a shia.

What about the opinion that husband can enter his wife as he pleases.
And that taken to include anal sex? Well anal sex is not permitted in Islam that I practice.

And even though Qur'an is the checker/qualifier for hadith, you will have to
tell me how a married person is stoned to death, if he or she is found
guilty of Zina. Please note that it is not in any place that people should
be stoned to death on the account of Zina. One is simply to be flogged.
It is in ahadith that you see the legislation for stoning!

How about the rakah of salah? How about the parts that must
be claened in wudu other than the face which is washed only one time.
The arms washed once also. The head wiped, once and the feet also wiped.

You jave to agree that we as muslims use the same Qur'an. Please get me
information from your own Qur'an. And define fahishah for us!

And will you allow your female family members to be Mutah ed?