₦airaland Forum

@Pligrim.1: You are quick to ask one question after another. But I have asked you to explain the Three expected prophets, that the children of Israel asked of John the Baptist. Please explain the three personalities to me by names: Also, you must explain to me, how John the Baptist said he was none of the three, yet Jesus said John was Elisha? Was this a miscommunication between these two noble prophets, or the fault should be laid at the foot of the Bible writers?

Again, God Allah Almighty, will give me the answer to all your concerns.

Is your YIM only for decoration, why haven't you check the messages I left and respond?

@Pligrim.1: It is Friday, already. I will have less time to answer, and therefore deferring my effort, till Saturday and Sunday. However, in the Qur'an, when Allah told the community of the Angels, that He will create a viceroy on earth. They not knowing everything, were terrible concerned, based previously created being, which shed much blood.

God responded to their concern, by simply saying that He knows the things that are unknown to the Angels. Iblis, before he was named Saitan, was from that previously created earthly being. Iblis was at the time of the creation of our father, even though not an angel, but a Jinn, in the community of the Angels. They were commanded to bow down to Adam. All the Angels bow down, obeying the command of Allah. Iblis did not bow down. He refused to obey Allah.

The reason I tell you this story, which you will find in many surah of the Qur'an, Baqarah, Kahf, etc, are that Saitan is not a an angel as the christians believed. And relevant to your query, is that God is the only One, one should bow down to. But in this special case, of one time event, He made it as a sign of obedience to Him, for all of the Angels and Iblis, to bow to Adam. All the angels did, but Iblis refused. This was his starting point to spiral downfall.

He showed arrogance in his answer to Allah when he was asked, why he refused to bow. Further, he later engineered the disobedience of Adam and his wife Hawa, the only reason they were removed from Paradise and sent to the earth.

If Allah, the Almighty asked Adam and then later Ibrahiim, (as to both of them), to use the blackstone, even in its Milky white state, and venerated it. And these noble men obeyed their Lord, where is the problem when Muhammad was commanded to do the same? Should he refused and say no? Please think and be reasonable in your thinking!

It was the will of Allah to arrange Islam, for completion the way He was with Muhammad (as). Just because the Jews, truly, children of Israel did not record it in their current books, is this a guaranty that it was not part of the their earlier rituals/ Please remember that Ibrahiim was the one that proclaim hajj to all mankind. Kaaba is central to hajj. Who tells you that the previous prophets, Isiaq, Yaqoub, even Daud, and his son, Sulaiman (as, to all), did not perform Hajj? Why do you raise unnecessary questions and irrelevant concerns?

I am not a scholar of Islam persee but God gives wisdom to respond, always.

@Pligrim.1: I sometime have to laugh aloud, when I read your post. Davidylan and Nwando are in this group as well.I sent you IM, you have not responded. Yet, close to 2 weeks now, you have stated you will connect with me. Is this for real, or in a more gentle way, you are actually saying you will not connect? Odara o.

Now, you were a muslim once. No one ever told you about Adam and Hawa (your Eve), his wife, descending from heavens to the earth? You need to know that the Black stone, used to be pure which as milk.

Adam built the same Kaaba, the first time. Kaaba has a similar building in the seventh heaven. It is called Baitul Maamuur. Thats where Muhammad (as) saw his father, Ibrahiim (as), who was resting with his back on this structure, in a leaning posture. That was the Isra wa Miraj journey of Muhammad.

The Black stone, in its pure milky white state was sent from heaven as part of Adam's construction materials. During the flood of Nuuh (Noah) (as), the kaaba was destroyed, but the Stone was raised to heaven, and only returned, when Ibrahiim and his first son, (as to both father and son), who could ever be qualified as the only son, were rebuilding this structure. The foundation line was shown to them. They collected the building materials. They constructed the building, along with placing the stone, where it is today. This corner is where tawaf starts, when you circumvulate the Kaaba. You should read books about this and other concerns you may have in Islam.

InshaAllah, your heart will be able to take these things. These are simple things about saving our souls. Muhammad, was commanded to follow the tradition of Ibrahiim, the upright in believe, know never associated anything with his Lord.

Tell me, is there any religion that observe any thing in remembrance of this noble father in faith of the Oneness of God, apart from Islam?

Even the polytheists of Makka rebuilt the structure, they were very careful not use any usury money in its construction.

Pligrim.1: Three Gods in One God: Is Jesus God, yes or no?

Is the Father in heaven God, yes or no?


Is the Holy Spirit God, yes or no?

You will have to post the verse(s) from the Bible yourself. If you can proof Jesus to be God/Lord, I win the argument.

About the three situations where lying is permitted, you need to accept these put forward clear understanding: If you marry an unattractive man, whatever your reason for marrying him, for some unknown reason, he asked if you think he is handsome or ugly. This is your children's father. And you are not in the heat of an argument. There is no bad blood between you. Now tell me, what will be your answer? We will see how wise you are. And the ability to hold a marriage.
Will you be tagged a liar, by keeping your household peacefully, if you lie to this vunerable man?


If you have two formerly dear friends, who are now in terrible feud at each other, yet they are still your friends. Whats your primary responsibilty, since you claim to be Jesus christlike? Will you endeavor to bring the two feuding buddies to end their feud, and become friends again? You must never forget, that their feud does impact you and others, maybe their families and other friends, also. If you have exhausted all avenues to quell this feud, will you be considered and be labelled a habitual liar if you went to each and say the other missed him and hope to end the feud? And you by this effort, bring them together. Tell me is this Jesus Christlike or evil deed? Whats your Solomonic wisdom on this subject?


Have you heard of what is known as Military strategy? This is where, in truth or in a bluff, there is a propaganda campaign to win the war, quickly and decisively. In war, the warring parties, see the opponents as mortal enemies. Hence, the objective is to defeat the enemies, with the least casualties on your side and with the least amount of resources, eg, manpower, ammos and time. If you find a way to discourage the enemies to fight you and at by this get them to surrender, the better for you. You have seen many a battles where before any single bullet is fired, there flyers and audible announcements being made to get the enemies' soldiers to defect or surrender altogether. The civilians are even encouraged to leave the would be battlefield.

If you you praise or exagerate your military poweress, so that you may not have to fight at all, because you get the enemies to surrender, will this be better for your side? Or do you intend to waste lives, because you lack military strategy, even before the firing of a single bullet? Hence, your side gets bugged down for as long as the enemies are able to put up a fight? War, is an ugly enterprise. I asked a retired Military general, about this before I pen it. He agreed with me, in all I write here.

Where is your knowledge about preserving lives?

In all of the three above, there is no one with a single aota of truth, if these are the quarters in which you lie, can call call you a liar.

I do not want to even talk about clear deceit from the Bible. And please don't ask me to bring you a verse. Read the Bible first. Then come back to me.



At your immediate above hadith, I have no disagreement with it. Here in the west, specifically in USA, people dies for the flag. After death, their surviving loved ones will even say that he died in what he loved. Some will even say that if he had other lifes, he would give them willingly for the country. Tell me, which is greater, a country or God?

Ni gba wo ni maku o ni ku? Ni gba wo ni maku o ni joye baba e?

Thats what you said. Thats your own opinion. You wait and I will also wait for the judgement of God. Not Jesus or any other. Please list the geneology of Jesus the way to whatever you want. From your Bible, you have two. List bothof them You will have to show us God in the loop.


Thank you.

Islam is entering even unexoected places. In Nigeria, it is now in Igboland. It is also with the Calabar people and so many ethnic groups. In the west, the white people are acceptingit in drove. The Jews are also accepting it, in and out of palestine, etc. If you guys live long enough, InshaAllah, you will. And you relax enough to accpet guidance from your Creator, you will bacome muslims. The greatest of Islam, in the time of Muhammad (as), became one of the strongest as soon as he accepted it. that man was Umar Al Khattab, (ra), the second calipha.

I prayed to Allah to make my mother a Muslim. Alhamdulillah, she left christianity and became a muslim at age 80 na dcounting. I am praying that many will come to islam, from my contact with them. Alhamdulillah, my Lord Allah is making it possible. Yet His mercy is abounding in my life. Where is the problem, david, Pligrim, etc? God is the Creator of all and He can accept or reject any prayer. No one can challenge Him. Truly, He is Kabiyesi.

@Davidylan: Have you heard Oba a joke aiye, Oba asake orun ( The God that gives inclusively to everyone on earth, The God that gives selectively to the selected in heaven)? God hears and and if He wills accept, He accepts the prayers of whoever. Be that one, a believer in Him or not. The Hindu prays to God, but through their lords and supposed saviours. So do the other Idolators. The Onishongos and others of Yoruba religions, pray to God, also through their lors and supposed saviours. You know where am going with this? Am here now; The christians pray to God, also through their lord and saviour Jesus Christ, son of Mary.

However, the muslims pray to God directly and for sure not through any medium, be it known or unknown.

As to Allah being a god from the 360 some gods of the pagan makkans, please proof it to me. Proof to me that I am worshipping a preislamic god. When it was the mission of Muhammad to actually destroy idolatory. Why don't i have the image or idol in my house. okay, in my heart?

On a different note, have you sen this www.lordsgym.com thing? Its very shameful. No wonder they will sell religion for measly price.

@Pligrim.1: God is not a Yoruba word. It is English. Oluwa, Olorun, Olodumare, etc, are Yoruba words as names or descriotions/attributes of the Creator of all things. You are a Yoruba Woman. All of the above are factual statements. You are not an English woman. Therefore, I will like to ask you, since you had asked Mukina, because she is a muslim, to tell or show you, a single miracle from 'Allah,' please, show us a single miracle from Olorun, Oluwa, etc.

I ask you this, because before you became a christian, you had and continues to be a Yoruba. You have been a Yoruba longer, than you a christian. Moreover, is Jesus yorubas' Olorun, Olodumare, etc? Really, in Yoruba chritianity, is Jesus Olorun, Olodumare, Oluwa, etc? If your heart tells you that Jesus is not it, please be sincere enough to tell us. We are not in your heart, but you do have conscience?

Apart from all the miracles that Allah in Arabic, an old language, God in English, a very young language, He through Muhammad(as), put forward Qur'an. He challenges Jinn and man to produce a book of likeness to it, the Qur'an. He even says, so as to make it easier, a single chapter! No one has been abke to do it. Your arab chritian community can take the challenge, without being shotdown, from the satrting gate. Dr. Anis Sorossh, a palestinian christian, in the US, foolishly after 911 produced what he called Furqan. I saw a copy, in the ramadan of 01 or 02. Right there in the Masjid, At Taqwa, in Brooklyn, the Guinea Conakry muslims, the largest single block of the congregation, derailed its as unworthy of the cahallenge. He patterned its style after the Bible writing.

You forgot that Olodumare, in Yoruba, is the same in God in English and definately the same Allah in Arabic! Therefore, Arabic being the oldest of the three, because the Yorubas came from Arab penisula,( learn Yoruba history before you challenge me on this one), and english being the youngest, Allah is most likely His true name.

@Davidylan: You are a christian. I told you that Jesus, in Qur'an, spoke as a babe, in the cradle to defend his mother's honor. You had a feat. You find that hard and poisonous to swallow! Yet you call him your Lord and Saviour? You have no difficulty that he cured some skin deseases, eg, leprosy, that he cured blindness and raised a man from dead. Since you are studying Medicine, which is greatly impossible to occur, a child who speaks at an unusually early age or the ability to bring a dead man alive! We are talking apples and oranges here.

If your mind can not accept that Jesus was able to speak at early age, how can you accept that he was able to bring a dead man alive? For a child to talk at an unusually early age, is not even a far fetched phenominum. Children mimick adults. It has been proven that children who have older child or children around, all the time, speaks and crawls, indeed walks much earlier than a child who does not have the same conditioning. Children are influenced by their enviroment. My younger boy spoke quite faster than his older brother.

Until you can accept that it is medically possible and spiritually not unusual, for Jesus to have spoken, in defense of his mother, regardless of whatever age, I will leave you wondering in your ignorance! You have short changed your Lord and saviour's ability to even speak. He, Jesus to me and all the Muslims, was a good son to his mother. He defended his mother. You need to copy that from him.

Pele. david. maybe I should writing all of this directly to you at davidylan,


Also you must know that the hadiths and sunnah are explanations of Qur'anic verses. Moreover, you will learn more about the particular prophet, from the sirah of that prophet in question. You already have enough from me, to last you a lifetime, if only your heart can take it.

@Davidylan: Typical christian accusations. No basis, no foundation, has no proof, but got to say it.

I think you are smarter than that. Do not continue to disappoint me. Ekun. Speak the truth and let the devil that has invaded your mind be ashamed.

@Pligrim.1: Calling muslim idolators is more than a bit stretching the unstretchable! In all the years I have lived on this earth, both in my native lnd, Nigeria and abroad, I have never prostrated my face to an idol.

No muslims that i have seen, in Nigeria or any other place, have advocated that it is permissible to prostrate to an idol. I ask you, when you were a muslim, did you prostrate to any idol? If you did, it then becomes very clear to me why Christianity is very agreeable to you.

You can say many things about Muslims. Idol worshipping is not one of them. I have shame. Aburo, kilo de. is there no limit to your bending the truth? haba. Ki de shee?

The condition of Moses simply tells you that your Bible is not comprehensive, enough. The new kid on the block got you beat by a mile.

@Davidylan: Wee mu ruun ku ruun (Thats my ijebu for you). You are my brother in Nigerianness. Yet I dont know from a hole in the wall! David. Think, man.

@Pligrim.1: I asked you for a full explanation of the three propphets who are being expected, by the children of Israel. You sent me on a wild goose chase. I went to your directed 'click here,' as directed. Well, I went there and poof, nothing. there is no explanation of the three personalities.


Please explain the personalities to us, here and now. Please. So you said Elijah is John the baptist, by mission. Even though John the baptist denied it. Okay, thats one. The second is Jesus, the massiah. Who is the third?

Aburo mi. So fun mi. I wanna know.

David, read my entry about Moses and the hairs on the back of the camel! I gave a question mark. He did not take the opportunity of the longer life, durrrrr! Come on, david. I love you, but you are wasting time in catching up. I know you can do better than that.

@David: Read in the name of your Lord. Who taught by the pen. Who taught men did not know. Read again. You fail to read. Read dan it

@Pligrim.1: Omo de yi. Wa ha la e po ju. You do not even read your own question and then relate to the answers given. You asked me to sho you where Jacob fought God and where Moses saw God, both from your Bible. I showed it directly, from Genesis.

Read your questions again. For the very first time.

I never said Jacob slapped anyone. You quoted that Moses slapped the angel of death. I do not dispute it. I am a muslim. If Muhammad narates it, it is 100% accepted by be. I hear and I obey. Allah says in His Book; If you love Me, obey Muhammad. Allah will love you back. He will forgive you your sins and He will make your affairs straight. kalas.

Learn about Moses, his princely upbringing in the palace of Pharaoh. He was a younger brother to prophet Haruun, (as). Yet he had more authority than his older brother, in the eyes of the Israelites. If you know the culture of the middle eastern people, you will understand the issue better. You can not enter a home without being permitted. The angel of death, in a humanly form, entered the Home of Prophet Moses, without taking his permission. Moses, true to form, slapped him. Being a prophet, it was a test from his Lord. If you read the hadith through, you will see that the angel came in the first two times as a man. However, when Moses was told that that was angel of death, and that if he wanted to continue to live, he will be permitted.

All he had to do was to put his hand, and it was large hand, on the back of a camel, every strand of hair it covers represented a year. Moses asked: What will happen after i have spent all the years? The response was that he will die. He then said take me now and there was no need in Moses' eye to wait for the how ever many a centuary of years. That was such the love that these prophets have for meeting their God Allah the Almighty.

Everything that came out of Muhammad (as), is accepted by me. I do not need a proof. I agree with him 100%.


Speaking to Muhammad: Muhammad had a Night Journey, in body and soul, from makka to Jerusalem, that was the first leg of his journey. Then still in the same night took off, from Masjid Aqsa (contrary to what your guy, khaled of answering islam.com said, with his stupid logic, when he invaded my computer, unsolicited, in order to subtlely spew his ignorance), and ascended to heavens and ended up at the throne of Al Rahman, beyond the tree of the farthest lote. That was where he received the command of salah and the last 4 verses of Surah Baqarah. The tasha huud of salah is the praising of God by Muhammad, on this great occasion, and the respond of Allah Subhana wata hallah, to His Messenger prophet. You did not know that in the many years you were a muslim?

No wonder you left Islam. Wow. Aburo, pada. I will help you to understand Islam, if others abandone you.

At the christians: When something that was pure becomes unpure, it is as if it is lost. For instance, a make make a batch of very tasty Lemonade. A glass is is set in front of a thirsty man. However, as he drinks, he continues to add cold water. Okay lets call it ice water. The more he drinks, the more he adds cold water. Alway maintaining a ful glass. After a while, the liquid in the glass will become only colored water, but will have lost its lemonade taste.

Here is the question for you: Do you call this colored/cloudy glass of water lemonade still? Why if you can or you can not?

This is the condition of your Bible of today, in comparison to when it was revealed to those individual prophets who received the revelations, from The One True God Almighty Allah.

If you don't get this by now, tough. I can not help you until you bleed your heart of all the disbelieving and ask for God's guidance.

@Pligrim.1: Omo de yi. O nfun mi ni wahala. Ko dara o. O je ki nlo ka bibeli. I am through doing that, long time. I already, by Allah's Mercy made her walked away from Christianity, at her old age of 80 and counting. Alhamdulillah.

It so happened that some jew called me just now and i asked him for the verses. Even he in his jewishness did not know them. No wonder you never realised they are there in the Bible.

Jacob; Forget all the deceit the perpetrated against his own brother, through the help of his own mother! Wow, what a mother, favoring one son over an obviously obedient son! Then further deceit arosed while he was still on the run from his slighted brother.

Genesis 32;28, We read the following, so I need clear explanation from you. please don't be emotional.

Then the man said, 'Your name will no longer be jacob, but Israel, (Israel means he struggles with God.) because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.

Aburo, read some verses before and after this quoted verse, above. When I was in high school, in the days, the Bible i used pre 1970, what was written in it was (the one who fought with God). make your best research and find out.

About Moses: Exodus 20;19; and said to Moses, 'speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.' Please make note that God speaks only to the prophets. Even stiff necked Children of israel, under Moses knew it. Where is Paul inthe line of true prophethood?

Exodus 33 ;18 Then Moses said,'Now show me your glory.'

34 ;1 (The new stone tablets) The Lord said to Moses, ;Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and i will write on them the words that were on the first tabkets, which you broke.'

Verse 4; So Moses chiseled out,



Exodus 34 ; 6: And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming 'the Lord, the lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness,,

Exodus 34 ;8; Moses bowed to the ground aat once and worshipped.


I just do nit see the reason to continue with this dialogue.

@davidlyan: Be sincere, thats yoruba and old tradition adage.
It is you who do not anything about the world. Please stick with Medicine.

@Pligrim.1: You make too much noice. Its like a broken record. Wow. Where is the beef? You have not been able to prove Muhammad out of your Bible. Not that we need it to validate his prophethood.

Here is a question for you; When Johnwas asked, was he Elijah, or the Messiah or the prophet, what was his answer? And please, while you are at it, explain that verse to me, personally. How many entities were in that verse? One, Two , Three? If its one , who is that one? If its two, let us know who they are? If its three, also tell us by name who are these three?

This is enough home work for a while.


From your Bibke, we see that Jacob fought with God. He had a physical fight and his name was changed to Israel from that point on. Akso from your Bible, we see that Moses afetr so much pleading or insistance that God shiw him His back or neck. Both are from your Bible. You may now tell me that you are disregarding the olsd testament. That will not surprise me.

Who is more powerful God or death? If God allows himself to fight His creation, Jacob and almost lost the fight, and had to result into pressing the thigh of jacob so that he feel an extreme pain and God was abke to escape. Further if Moses, refused to bulge until God capitulated to his demand, then tell me is it so difficult for God to allow that same stubborn Moses to slap the face of death, a mere servant of God?

@Pligrim.1: Disprove the story and I will let you know how naive you have been all along.

First, you do not know the wisdom, behind the kingly upbringing of Moses. So your knowledge of Islam is so little and coupled with impurity of heart, may God help us all. I will like to hear your story. Mind you, you are talking to the rest of the world and there are people on nairaland who are not ignorant of islamic stories.

@Pligrim.1: I know that you will agree with david. Remember, you are in the same religion. A religion that has three gods in One God! Am not making light of the issue. What am saying is that my Qur'an say that it is not the case. My prophet who was known even by his archiest enemies, as Alamiin, the trust worthy/truthful, did not tell any lies.

Before I answer your joke above, is it not true that you christians believe that your saviour enter hell and defeated satan thereby? Whats the diffrerence between hell that your saviour enters and the hellfire that is mentioned in the Qur'an? When you can explain each and if there is any difference and you can prove that they are not the same then, I will adress your concern appropriately.

What you are missing, as you have asked above, is true guidance. The religion of God. You need to go back and asked God for purication of the heart. then you seek His Mercy and guidance and reenter Islam. You and all of yours who left it, in the first place. This is the way of success.

As the brother have said in an earlier post to Nwando, the road to destruction is wide and paved with fool's gold. However truth path to success, is narrow. It is ese o gbeji road. It is not wide enough for one to put two feet, side by side.

Remember that as the ignorants are trooping out of Islam, in Africa, the wise are trooping into it, in the west. It goes to the verse in the Qur'an, where the Almight Allah says that if a people does not worsip Him, He will replace them with other that will love to worship Him. Whats your problem. You will never be able to frustrate any true muslim and definately, not Allah.

@Davidylan: Please Pligrim.1, leave me with david on this one. You Pligrim, seem to me as a whatever and whereever the wind blows kinda believer. Someday, InshaAllah, you will reenter Islam, you and your whole family. I pray that you live long, to old age. Amiin.

David. David. David. How many times did I call you? Three times, my guy. When that happens in Yoruba culture, there is some attention needed. So pay attention.

You had answered the question of the ark, built by Nuuh. Except that you did not, in your haste see it, in the Qur'an. So I ask you to go back and read everything about Nuuh, in the Qur'an. He was mentioned in many surah, and then in Surah Nuuh. In the whole of the Bible, both OT and NT, you do not find a chapter named after this noble prophet Nuuh (as). Yet we read about Ester, Jeremiah, etc. Less noted entities in the history of mankind as a whole. At least, the Jews, Christians and the Muslims, believe that he was important to their religions.

In your quote about Surah Nuuh, above, you mentioned that from the Qur'an, you learnt that some people of Nuuh answered his call. These people, who answered, regardless of the numbers, were saved. The rest, which included his wife and a son (your Bible is not as explicit as that of Qur'an about this issue of Nuuh's family members), perished in the flood. If you read enough about nuuh in the Qur'an, again, you will find out that there was a vessel/ an ark, that Nuuh and those people who were saved with him sheltered in.

So david, the question you have to answe for me is this, from you Bible, was there a single evil doer who was not destroyed by Nuah's flood? Just like any prophet who prayed for the destructions of evil doers, eg Moses prayed for the destruction of Pharaoh of his time, he also prayed for the destruction of the one who engineered the golden calf, etc, Nuah prayed and his prayer was answered. His Lord destroyed the evil doers.

Just because a folk dies in flood does not stop him, if he is an evil doer from receiving the punishment that is the burning in hell. If he is a believer and doer of good, that will not make him not go to paradise, either. So are you saying to us, that Pharaoh of Moses will not go to hellfire, because he died in flood? Please proof your case.

Do you know or it is Allah Almighty God that knows? Just because you disagree does not make you correct. You may be actually be 100% wrong. In this case you are wrong, in all your points. The first thing is that you did not read enough about Nuuh in the Qur'an. Secondly, you do not even worship God directly. You associate partner with him. Inview of this, your heart at the moment is deseased and no good enters it. Unless and until, you mend your way and seek true repentance, then God Allah Subuhana wa tahallah, is most Merciful most Forgiving.

@Pligrim.1: Whre is the borrowing of the Bible enters Qur'an? Please quote, chapter and verse. Just one.

@Davidylan: You are yelling, again, David! Calm down. I believe that we can all get along. There is a surah, named Nuuh (Noah), in the Qur'an. So David, whats your problem. Noah is now an exclusive personality of the Jews and Christians, and not that of Muslims? You must be kidding me. I think your ignorance about Qur'an is a major problem. No wonder you write as if you are forcing us, the muslims to accept your premise.

Imams are necessary in islamic prayers, for the simple fact that there must be a leader in a congregational leader, in any congregational prayer.

@Pligrim.1: Is this what you are calling responses? davidylan of all people? David, is not serious. He just a player.

Please show me the authentic hadith, with sound chain of naration, of cancelled and not in Qur'an verses, yet revealed to Muhammad. We are not talking about abrogated verses here. All the abrogated verses are in the Qur'an. For example, the process of forbiddening alcohol, illustrates this abrogation in the Qur'an.


So my lady, you believed that Muhammad was telling the truth, when he said his 'Allah' revealed the Bible? If you believe that part, then you have to believe it when he said his 'Allah' said the the Bible is corrupted. When it was revealed afresh, it was uncorrupted. God did not reveal it already corrupted. That would have been possible.

However, in time, it became corrupted and his'Allah' informed him of it. Is this very difficult for you to understand? My darling, I don't have to humor you. All am doing is disarming you. I understand. Ayini ke lo mo. O ma yini pada. Ibadan lo mo. O mo layi po. Laugh and sleep tight.

@Pligrim.1: Aburo. She the exam was okay? I wish you extreme success. Amiin.

The Yes and no about Bible as a revealed "Book of Allah," is from khaled at answering islam.com, right? I just stumbled on the site today. Well last week, somebody invaded my compute with some, what is supposed to be about Isra wa Miraj, from the Qur'an. As I read on, i realised it was not proislam, but trying to disprove, the occurence of the events. Well, when i got to this site, today, the same argument that you are making now is what khaled is making. He was just trying to narrow everyone by some esoteric thinking. He want to apply logic to everything.

Let me answer your question: We all agree that man is giving free will on everything. The will to choice, between right and wrong. Yet people know what is right and opt for the opposite. During the time of Noah, he called his nation to the truth. Yet only a few answered. The rest refused, including his son and wife. So the evil handwork of mankind, has been going on befoer Moses. Since we are talking about Moses, David, and Jesus revealed revelations, we have to ask this direct question: If Moses' Torah was never corrupted, why do you need David's sabuur? If These two were never corrupted, why would we need Injiil? please bare in mind that each prophet that came after the previous, is a reminder, reformer to set people straight, again. If people were on the straight part, why is there a need for another prophet? Then, why is there realky a need for a prophet with a revelation?

God, had used the progenies of Isiaq (as), which ended with Isa bin Mariam. God, as He willed turn the other line, the progeny of Ismail (as). This is Muhammad, a descendant of Ibrahiim (as), the upright, in belief. Ibrahiim did not add or associate any god with God Almighty. In Muhammad (as), God confirmed that the other books had been corrupted (not oure any more), through the hands of the scribes and rabbis. He guarantees that the Qur'an will never enter the realm of corruption. He guarantees it, Himself. That is enough for me!

I will now simply go to your Bible, even though that is not necessary, but simply to point this out to you. Could you comfirm to me with certainty that there is no single verse that will corroborate that they scribes have played fast and loose with any part of the Bible? Please take into the account of many factors, the many varied types of Bibke in exuistence from the ages, the verses that are missing in one and not in another, whole book/chapters missing in one and not in another. Please consider your answer very greatly, before putting anything down. If you are no able to defend the indefensible, then come back to Islam. Allah, is always merciful and alway forgiving.


To ba binu ton, she wa fowo wo nu?

@Ndipe: Thanks my man. She is so angry, I can smell it from here.

@Pligrim.1: When you called Jesus God/Lord, what do you mean except that he is your God or Lord. Then jesus died. thats from your Bible. What else is thare that i have to proof!

To say that God who created mankind and all things and also created death, lacks information about death is in itself limiting God's knowledge. This is why our god may actually be different from your God. The Muslims worship a God who is beyond all things and not under any constraint. Death is for His creation. Mercy, forgiveness and all are His alone. My God does not die.

You on the other hand is worshipping a God that must experience torture and finally death, like human beings, so that He can learn what, really? Yet, some will still go to hellfire? God is free of all they associate with HIM.

Am a Yoruba man, when i pristrate my face, in salah prayers, I speak Yoruba: Oloruno, sha nu iya mi o. Ati bebe lo.
Kini mo se nsen yin. What are you talking about!

@Pligrim.1: My Queen. Iyawo mi ole sako simi bo nse nse yi. And she is my olori. Stop that queen Bee nonsense. You wanna discuss. Go ahead. You are not directing traffic here. Definately, not mine.

Muhammad (as), by defination of what is in the Qur'an, has provided us a different Jesus, than what you have in the Bible.
Stark differences: The One in the Qur'an, is not God. Not son of God. Not 1/3 God. He spoke to defend his mother's honor, even as a babe. He preached the Oneness of God Allah, the Almighty. He prostrated his face to Allah, his Lord, Muhammad's Lord and yours and mines. He defined his messengership, only to the children of Israel. He foretold of a future messenger of God, the personage of Muhammad as Ahmad. He was not killed. He was not crucified. He revealed what the children of Israel stored up in their houses. He asked God to send a complete table of food (dinner), from heaven as a sign of his prophethood, when his core companions requested for that specific sign. He gave all the glories to his God. He told his nation, the BaniIsrail, to worship God alone, their Lord and his Lord, and not to associate any partnership, in that worship. He said whoever does not worship God alone, paaradise is forbidden to that a soul, the soul that will abide in hellfire for ever. Please dispute any of the above, from the Qur'an! And do you have any of these in the Bible?

The Mary I know, is not venerated as Mother of God. This alone is enough as an answer.


The Bible (TORAH, SABUUR and INJIIL), that the Muslims are refering to are these three revelations, exactly as they were revealed to the prophet that receive the revelation. At the time of revelation, when the prophet was still alive to guarantee the authenticity of what he received. And that goes on until, just before the first foreign element was brought into it. From the point of the first foreign element into any of the revelations, it becomes diluted and not 100% pure anymore. This process of dillution continues throughout the ages, until, you have so many information, that it is impossible to differentiate, the wheat from the shafts.  What Muhammad is been told by Al Rahman is that the Bible (The three revealed Books that comprised it), are diluted, sometimes before the beginning of his messengership. The dilution, of each book, however began sometimes after each prophet had left the stage. So to answer your question, the Bible we believe in is the one at sometime, in the past, before Muhammad, say at the time of each prophet, being alive, when receiving the revelation and prior to it being polluted.


I have shame and you know it. I am very bashful. You are the one who misbehaving.



Aburo, Aburo. Oni suru. Agidi e poo ju. You contadict yourself, to much. You quote Gospel of selected people. Yet, from your Bible, there were 12 Apostles. Lets take Judas out of it, we still have 11. Yet you are quoting 4, at best. 4 in 11, is less than 40%. What happens to the 60 plus %? They do not have any recollection of his wonderful performances? No wonder he called them people of little faith! Then am surprised that we have to result to the Bullying action of a second generation man called Saul/Paul!

What happened to the Gospel of Jesus, which he preached about the places he went? Aburo, dami lowun!  I keep my words. have you with me?

John 10;30 and 12;45, kinda disagree with each others position. The first claimed they they are one, as in 2 in 1 package. The second shows that there is a master slave/servant relationship, in play. The master sends the subordinate to errant or mission a particular purpose. I always answer to my father's name. Even his father's name. How then that Jesus was on the cross, dying that he cried my God, my God, why (questioning) has thou forsaken me? Please correct me, if there was no yell/cry? Aburo, check your Bible.


Jesus son of mary, the massiah of the children is free of all the christians say about him. The christians exagerated his position, hence embellishing.

Jesus is also clear of all the lies of the jews against him. For they refused to acknowledge him.

About your pedophilia statement, you have to put everything in context of all the possible variables. Then you come to your own conclusions


For example, I ask people all the time if Abu bakr had any new children after he had entered Islam? Being the first adult male that accepted islam in the first year, one can begin to know the true story from there onward.
 To simply lue outright, because one is trying to score a point is deceitful and shameful, in all normal sense of it al

@Pligrim.1: We should not forget that I have never insulted Jesus son of Mary, a prophet of Islam. Now have I ever insulted Jesus of the Bible. It is in the Bible that we find out that he did not proof out any relevance/resemblance of Goship. It is also, in the Bible that we finds that he cried out, my God, my God, why has thou forsaken me. The above, if not true to forms, please correct me and i will apologise. We also know from this action, he gave up the ghost or dies. All of this is from the Bible. Where have I said anything wrong and accreditted it to the Bible? Please notice that the one on the cross, from the Bible, did not refer to God as his father, in his hour of intensed need, even though he demstrated that need by the yelling for relief.

Now as to cgift, that is something else. He spoke about Muhammad. The muslims know that Muhammad (AS), never claimed that he was not only a human prophet. A mere mortal. But when this cgift said Allah is dead, that was his own opinion. I had the right to inform him that truly at one time, his God and savior died. That is direct from his Bible. In the Qur'an, you do not find where Allah is dead. What you find is that He is always complete, never diminishes and always full of power, complete.

Between cgift and me, I ask you, who is wrong and who has spoken the truth? Now to my name. Cgift, never saw fit to respect my perso. Not because of the difference between my age and his. But he does not know me, enough to debase me. In islam, the least I could do was to just respond to him and defend my honor. Olabowale, is not Uncle, your ola refuses to come home! If I am from his family, would he have spoken to me like that? Afterall, we could have differences of opinion, and have heated argument about it, but there is a line we should not cross. Read what your man, a Yoruba man, Mr. cgift wrote to me, yesterday.

Ile lan wo ka to somo loruko. Just because me are on opposite sides, we should at least have a civility about our positions. If I did not stop him, only kniws how far he will go. Yet, I have children close to his age. And i did not cross the line.

You be the Judge. We are not, in islam commanded to just only turn the other cheek. If you wish, you walk away after the first slap. if you want you turn the other cheek. If you want, you can stop anyone from slapping you, in the first place. Yet you have more options. Just as long as you do not slap anybody, first.


Tell me where am wrong. then i will apologise and correct my ways. Further, remember than my Jesus is different in description from your Jesus. I know you do not have any Muhammad. But Allah is universal. Just like Olorun, or Olodumare or Oluwa, etc, each, is the name or desciption of God or Lord, english words to describe yahwah, Jehovah of Hebrew, so is Allah in Arabic. You can also call Him Al Rahman, and many other descriptions.


Tell your guy to know his limit, espectially when he is addressing his elder. There is a Yoruba culture still in play, amongst us, the Yorubas. We should not forget that. Ronti Omo eni ti iwo nse!

@jerrymania: No my man, am not prancing around. Thats a gurlie thing. Am 100% prime African muslim male. We do not behave like tinkle bells.