₦airaland Forum

Mekusxyz:
[b]Rotational presidency is at the heart of the Igbo quest for justice and equity. Any attempt to remove it will, I predict, be resisted by (99% of Igbos.) [/b]There is merit within the regions and you cannot convince anyone otherwise. Moreover, it is in the interest of the minorities that the Igbo and Yoruba do not dominate the leadership, like the hausa, and to a lesser extent the Yoruba, are currently doing.

Bro Mekus I need to properly qualify the bolded statement (before people misunderstand you). The Igbo believe in merit based appointments and would prefer a merit based system to any form of selection. Rotational presidency is a form of selection and can fly in the face of merit. However, I think that the Igbo would support this rotational thing on ad hoc basis, (i.e. until a popular merit based election system for presidency is enthroned). I for one don't give a rat's a.s.s if a section of the country produced all presidents.

My frustration is that even African countries which experienced racial segregation regimes in the past have better infrastructure than Nigeria. So, to calm minority suspicion and anxiety, yes the Igbo would support a rotational presidency of sorts till things stabilize. We really need the best managers from any section of the new country to man things. To do otherwise would be to repeat the mistakes of the status quo.

I think it is time to start a "tea party" movement in the south. I bet you we can have a country of our dreams in about 2 or 3 years time.

Beaf:
States that categorise themselves as Northern can only be described as Northern. Also, any place with an Emir will fall under the North.

The tricky areas I see are Benue, Plateau and Taraba; these areas are very unlikely to want to hang out with a Northern country. So, I think we should possibly be looking at Benue, Plateau and Taraba; perhaps, Southern Kaduna and the Abuja area.

I don't think it matters much how many states on the northern boarder under current configuration ultimately joins the southern Nigeria republic. In the US, only 13 states (then called colonies) formed the union: New York, New Hampshire, Delaware, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia. Today, the US has 50 states.

I have always harped on the fact that Nigeria was not properly founded hence all these problems we face today. Let us first restrict the founding membership to the three southern geopolitical regions. When we complete the founding negotiation and have established a sustainable progressive constitution, any northern state that wants to join will only need to ratify the constitution on a take it or leave it basis. I believe that the key to the success of the whole project lies in the ingenuity of the constitution itself. We must not be in a hurry and it must be an exhaustive and sophisticated constitution worthy of a 21 century country.

Beaf:
@real4life
The North has itself to blame in the current rounds of crisis facing the country. It is disenginous to hit out at the South whereas the threats to the nations unity are arising 100% from Northern attitudes.
The problems Southerners have with the North can be expressed in one word, "frustration".

[li]Forcing a unitary system on us, that is tearing the country apart[/li]
[/list]

Spot on!
I would add that Nigeria as currently configured gives room to too much sectional and religious chauvinism at the detriment of national cohesion and unity. The leadership vacuum currently plaguing the country is one example. For example, why can't the VP take over leadership of the country since the president is clearly incapacitated?

Apart from lack of true federalism, the next killer of Nigerian unity is the quota system and federal character.
I often wonder how I will have to explain to my (hypothetical) Harvard trained son or daughter (one day), that he/she will have to accept playing second fiddle to some northerner who never left Nigeria for education and who is clearly less qualified.

In a hypothetical scenario where Nigeria were under attack from some foreign country, would that son or daughter fight for Nigeria? What are his/her stake or interest in such a nation founded on injustice and mediocrity. For those who may never have thought about it, I believe that is part of why Nigeria could not defend Bakassi. This country is scared of a war with a foreign country because we don't have people ready to defend her. A nation's best defense is internal cohesion and justice. The north has only demonstrated love for the north and not for Nigeria. If they did otherwise since 1970, we would not be here discussing how to separate from the north.

As we continue hypothesizing a southern Nigeria, the north can still implement true federalism and remove those obnoxious institutions of mediocrity called quota system and federal character. They can still nip Islamic extremism in the bud by indefinitely suspending Sharia laws which conflict with the federal constitution. The big question is will northerners do that?

So, until we know the answer, I believe that the pre-Lugardian arrangement is one of our best options forward.

real4life:
strange reply, are you really from the south? i dont think thats the majority opinion

Anyway thanks for the reasonable post

Reply

Mekusxyz:
Did you conduct a poll to determine what is majority opinion?

Yes, you are right Mekus, there is no poll to support my statements. My suggestions are simply personal opinions and it is a product of the "education" I have received since I joined nairaland.

real4life:
@all
sorry to disturb your little referendum, but please stop throwing insults at each other so we can enjoy this thread more,   

By the way, it would be interesting to see how your federal republic of south nigeria would turn out when you dont have hausa/fulani to call goats, mugus, malams etc.

if you may permit, I have a few questions to ask. would you guys be kind enough to

1. sell us fuel, or do we have to revert to animal transport or buy fuel from Ghana

This question lies at the core of the negotiation process that should precede the whole thing. Personally, I believe the north should be accommodated in the petroleum resources under agreeable terms to all concerned. This is just to enable a smooth process of separation.

2. keep abuja as our capital, or would you bomb it before you move on, or would u remove the infrastructure that was built with "oil money"

Abuja is in the north. There is nothing anyone can do about that.

3. let the igbo people continue to live with us, or would you ask them to go back home. i dont know exactly how many of them are there, but they have communities in even the smallest villages in the North and are very happy living there. So are we

As long as you don't kill them in religious riots, I'm sure they would and should stay . No one will force them to relocate unless if a war is brewing.

4. buy food from us, or would you import from abroad

Of course the south will continue buying food from the north if the north keep supplying at the right price. This is a no brainer.

5. let our expatriates continue working in the oil industry and other professional jobs or would u or send them back home

They should continue working there as long as they are qualified to be there, much like the foreign expatriates. There will no longer be quota system and federal character candidates and other "emir" or "retired army general" candidates in the oil industry. That would never happen again. Every personnel there must be based on his qualifications and merit. You fail to deliver on the job, you get fired. Simple.

In short if you succeed to break up Nigeria, how do you plan to treat your new neighbour? As a friend or foe nation?

That depends on whether northern Nigeria become a good neighbor(unlike Cameroun). If the north imposes sharia, and makes like hell for southerners in the north, we in the south will then retaliate.

@Katsumoto

You may have to first smoke out the [b]sjeezy8[/b]s of Yorubaland first before our Southern Nigeria talk continues. That is the main challenge to a southern unity/understanding. I'll leave that to you.

As for those designing and flying flags here, Igbo people say that one must first capture the kite or eagle before determining whether it is a taboo for a woman to eat it. We have good designers to give us a good flag. I really thought the OPs flag wasn't bad.

manuch:
he is injured

OMG!!

Poor boy! We will miss him.

Did he fade so fast or is he injured? Our strike force was very potent with him in play.

I don't know if I'm wrong but does anyone know what happened to Ikechukwu Uche? That boy has the heart of of a lion. He reminds me of Daniel Amokachi. He has given us goals when we badly needed them. Is he injured? What happened?
Sorry if I sound uninformed.

First things:

(1) Build enough prisons and establish a functional justice system based on local policing (local govt and state policing supported by an efficient federal police force for interstate crimes).
(2) Abolish quota system and federal character. In its place, a merit based system with affirmative action for educationally backward states. Merit -90% ,affirmative action- 10%
(3) Life jail and asset forfeiture for capital flight and unlawful export of money.
(4) Compulsory education for all persons under 18 years
(5) Long jail terms (at least 10 years) for infrastructure sabotage (electric lines and facilities and telephone lines).
(6) Empower EFCC to bring more people to justice for economic sabotage.

I just listed things I know I can do if I were the President of Nigeria today.

FACE:
I have gone through the thread and it looks like most Southerners would like to seceed from Nigeria.

Why then is it that most people westwards of Agbor come down on their eastern neighbours like a ton of bricks any time the later dare hint that they would love to be an independent nation ? Is it only a good idea when the whole south jointly seceed or are they inseparable appandages of each other ?

Life is not all about "me too". If it is right for the southerners to break from the federation en bloc, then there is nothing wrong with any individual group wishing to go it alone.

In my opinion, we have greater potential as we are at the moment, but of what use are those potentials when there are forces ( constitution, nepotism, corruption, quota system, etc etc ) which continue to kick those potentials into the ground.

A simple transition of power to the VP in the event of the president's demise as stated in the constitution has degenerated into ethnic/regional political chicanery.

There is no way we can move forward like that and I think that the best solution at this point is to re-negotiate the terms of our co-existence and agree to part ways if necessary.

Those who make peaceful resolution of conflicts impossible shall find physical revolution/war inevitable. Everything has its  elastic limit and the continued existence of Nigeria as a nation has almost reached that limit and only time would tell if it would snap or return to shape.

For those who expect some form of royalty from other regions, you'd better have the military might to enforce it.

This is an offshoot of my earlier point. You better have the military might (either physically or mentally) to fight off an invading enemy.Period. We can dream all we like but that is the bottomline. Something tells me that a Biafra for instance would not have surrendered Bakassi to Cameroun. There are one million ways Nigeria botched it. A viable nation must have citizens ready to die for her. Everyone should bear this in mind.

ezeagu:
I don't understand.

The same MEND that was asking the Igbo to join them, the same Niger Delta which consists of Bonny, a majority Igbo speaking island? The same Ijaw who marry all the Igbo women that come past them? When did MEND attack Igboland? I can remember it attacking somewhere else. . . . .

Dokubo Asari was openly calling for an alliance with the Igbo to enable the Ijaw move the fight forward, according to him "we need their number".

I have taken time to thoroughly study all the issues concerning Southern Nigeria and I concluded that no nation can exist down there without the ability of its components to fight off an enemy. People can make all the noise about Oduduwa republic but I remember that Ojukwu was sending a Biafran expeditionary force to Lagos and then Ibadan to constitute the first Oduduwa republic defense force before Oduduwa can assemble enough army for her own defense. That was one of his major miscalculations, because the force was seen as an invading force and sabotaged/stopped at Ore.

The Igbo (together with the Ibibio/Annag) might have lost a war but I still believe that they and the Ijaw are the only groups in the south that have ever demonstrated a motivation, ability and penchant for fighting a war. This is not meant as an insult to the Yoruba. I'm just stating the history of Nigeria as is.

The idea of a southern Nigeria can work because the Yoruba won't need to fight a war for it. There are other southerners to do that, provided the Yoruba are genuinely on-board and not try again to double deal. If the north think for a second that there would be a weak link in the south, you can kiss this southern Nigeria republic bye bye.
I also believe that you can easily convince the Igbo in Lagos to help fight off any northern invasion.
People should be realistic here. Only a foolish man does not acknowledge his own limits. Nigeria's history is still fresh and we know who did what in the recent past.

Katsumoto:
I understand what you are saying but do you honestly think that any independent nation will 'bribe' another nation with its resources simply because it wants to avoid war. The discussions may centre on bilateral relations, co-operation, and economic agreements. Even if these agreements are reached and the regions separate, do you think that subsequent leaders of the southern regions will keep honouring such agreements? If the south south becomes a country of its own, will Biafra permit Northern forces to advance through its territories to go and battle the south south people?

The question is predicated on the assumption that the north will need to go through a Biafra to get to a Niger delta republic. There is no available evidence to suggest that Biafra will be entirely Igbo. The original Biafra wasn't and chances are the next one won't be. I say that because south south is not united enough to form a country.

SEFAGO:
The North will become significantly poorer due to this break up. Biafra too will be poor as hell. Infact this will lead to significant poverty- sigh man africa never learn

I wonder how you reached that conclusion. The first thing you must know is that a Biafra well negotiated will likely be the richest if not immediately, it will ultimately. The Biafra will have immediate yearly grant of about $2b dollars from a heavily committed diaspora, which will increase as time goes on (much like what Jewish diaspora do for Israel). Then, the enormous human resources will kick in. No quota system, no federal character. Before you know it, the economy will simply explode. Oil proceeds will contribute less than 10% of the revenue. You can choose to believe otherwise.

Katsumoto:
You can not share what does not belong to you. If Nigeria splits into three Regions, the North or West will not have any share of the resources in the Niger Delta. I am confident that the Yorubas will find other sources of revenue; the North should do the same.

This is not 1966; the North can not fight a southern Nigeria or wage several campaigns against Biafra and Odua. Even a retard knows that the North will be comprehensively defeated. Do not for one second think that the North can use WAR as a threat against Southern Nigeria.

There is nothing practical about your suggestion. Your suggestion is analogous to the practice of paying homage to superior kingdoms in ancient times. The North is not superior to either a combined Southern Nigeria or a split southern Nigeria with a common goal and enemy.

If the concept of Nigeria only appeals to the North because or resource control and access to the ocean, then I think we should start preparing ourselves for this break-up either peacefully or violently. I never advocate violence as a means of resolving issues but do not for one second think that we will be afraid to fight if it boils down to it.

I totally agree with you here.

ndu_chucks:
er, Will this new Southern Nigeria give up all claims to the off-shore oil as a condition to seceed? If not, what's the suggestion for how to share it? What about future off-shore oil finds, how do we share that.

Will this new country take full control of all the major ports, in Lagos, Warri, and others?

As much as you and I have battled each other in the past over issues with little respect for each others opinion, I think your question here makes absolute sense. The issues you raised are really what keeps Nigeria one, not love of the country or a shared collection of values or goals. So, any talk of restructuring or partitioning of the country MUST address them to everyone's satisfaction for this to happen without a war. The sooner people become realistic about that the better.
Those must be addressed in an exhaustive conference. I don't believe anyone wants a war in Nigeria, therefore people must not make unreasonable demands.

EmperorOlu:
You attacked me first when i posted the flag of odua, you have been attacking since i started my topic SAVING NIGERIA. But you chicken out now after you have received of few well deserved lashes from me. Next time don't wake a sleeping lion.

more blah!

You can see that I like this thread. It is part of my "education" about Nigeria. I am genuinely interested in knowing what can work and what can't work. We can take this your nonsense "fight" to your emperor thread. Just leave this thread alone. There are people here who want to learn. Thank you again and good bye!

Everything can be negotiated. I would say that the quota system and federal character (which put many unqualified people in critical positions) is at the root of why the current Nigerian system is not working. So, that must never exist in any new nation south of the confluences. Education is the next. Every child must be sent to compulsory primary and secondary schools.
When we do these, quota system will die a natural death.

@EmperorOlu

Can we go back to the topic now? You are the king of heavens and your folks rule the universe.
Don't derail this thread. Where is Kosovo sef?

EmperorOlu:
I have been asked not to use inflammatory comments so I would put this in the mildest way possible. I[b] will suggest you go back to school[/b] and learn the definition of certain terminologies and words :

Definition : An Emperor is the supreme leader of an Empire

[size=16pt] and then . . .  blah blah blah !!![/size]

You know, you are pushing your luck with me and I'm resisting your attempts to derail this thread. First you accuse me of being a criminal hiding in an obscure corner of the world. Next you accuse me of being illiterate. This is an internet forum and I would not and (no one should) divulge my personal information here. However, I would say that I am a citizen of the most powerful country on earth and I live in the richest state of that country. An i.d.io.t like you is in South Africa scheming to go to Nigeria, and to impose a monarchic system long discredited around the world. The Japanese "emperor" you refer to was effectively "humanized" after the defeat and surrender of Japan in 1945. What the Japs have now is a symbolic emperor with little of no power. Japan is a Parliamentary democracy.
Like I said before, don't derail this thread with your egocentric megalomania. Thank you!

@emperorolu
Please don't derail this thread. Go back to your emperorship thread. You are too egocentric to contribute anything remotely useful here. Go ask any Lagosian what Oluwole means and he will happily explain to you.
Good bye!

So to expand my point about emperorship and worship of human beings, in the new nation, the law must not recognize nor elevate any individual above the law. You commit the offense, you head to jail. Period.

EmperorOlu:
Don’t give yourself high blood pressure because of me. You talk but your people are doing exactly the opposite. Don’t you have thousand of chiefs in IBO land, why do you still bow to them. Lol …………………irony is a funny thing .

Doesn’t your so called cannibal Ojukwu have a chieftaincy title and a palace of his own. Hahaha you are joker ,holla at me when you have enough steam.By the way don't be so arrogantly naive ,my name is not oluwole!

How old are you sef? And are you even a Nigerian? Have you ever lived in Lagos? 
That question surely exposes your level of ignorance about Nigeria!

It would be interesting to do a poll on this idea to gauge the level of support. I know that the overwhelming majority of nairalanders are from the south. So, in a way we can conduct a quasi referendum right here and take it from there.
Moderator Kosovo where are you? Set up the poll.

I believe that the "spirit" (progress) is largely shared by all peoples of southern Nigeria. The north struggles with it in many ways, and I don't see them ever accepting that spirit.

EmperorOlu:
There you go a gain being a sentimental Nigerian. Who told you Ibos wealth is what is keep the west’s economy alive. You think selling tokunbo cars and counterfeit goods is wealth. Personally i think that Ibo traders in the west are unruly and disorganized, we need to re-organize our markets to meet international standards. Have you been to alaba and see how disgusting it is there, Ibos are selling TVs on top of refuse dumps. There are many Yoruba’s in Diaspora who are making solid cash from high level business deals. In regards to ID’s ,it is this same mentality of lawlessness that has made the Nigerian population explode. You need to have proper immigration laws otherwise your country will be flooded with Cameroonians and togolese claming to be Ibos.Why don’t you just open your border and allow everyone to come in without a visa. Let’s stop this naija mentality and measure up to world standards. Knowing the way Ibos like to reproduce at an alarming rate i will never allow them to remain in Nigeria without a permit.

@ahas80 ,yes it is the same EmperorOlu get used to it.

You never fooled anyone with your cloak and dagger schemes of African Emperorship. I think you only fooled yourself.
Emperorship or "godlike" worship of human beings will be the first casualties of the new republic if it ever sees the light of day.
Like Ojukwu said, a successful federalism is not one based on laws but based on "spirit". The spirit of the federation should denounce and reject everything that sets a nation backwards. For instance, everyone would benefit from a law demanding that all children below 18 be in school. That would then grandfather a system without a need for federal character and quota system.

"Emperor Oluwole" is trying to scam people!

It is not surprising; therefore, that Dr. Azikiwe saw Nigerian march towards African leadership. His brother leaders saw Nigeria as a vast land of opportunity within which to propel Moslem supremacy in the case of the North, the Yoruba supremacy in the case of the West. At independence, Dr, Azikiwe believe he had witnessed the arrival of the Nigerian nation, mighty in size and mightier in resources, whereas Sir Ahmadu Bello welcomed a British sphere of influence, which he could exploit to raise the pillar of Islam in this part of Africa. Obafemi Awolowo like his brother from the North saw Nigeria as a land of vast opportunities for him to exploit to the benefit of his Yoruba nation. Accordingly, from the moment when the new Nigerian flag was raised the founding fathers of Nigeria each moved along his own chosen path. Today, the North, because of the concept of Sir Ahmadu Bello, has become a giant in the Nigerian society, the West, because of Chief Awolowo’s concept has been pulled-up by its bootstraps to control in its totality the finances of this country, the East not surprisingly has since independence continuously made sacrifices for the nation it hopefully wishes to exist”, Ojukwu contended.

I was witness to the joy of the occasion. The departing imperialists rejoiced at having won a very basic independence. The two sides rejoiced, but the each for a different reason. It is this that renders our entire encounter with one another very tense and it is this that makes nation building impossible. The basic theory of federalism has always been that no federating unit in federalism should ever be preponderant over a combination of the other federating units.

For a federation to succeed, all federating units must share a basic culture. In Nigeria, the North, peopled by the Hausa/Fulani, remain preponderant over the south and derived from a pagan-Islamic culture, while the south-multi ethnic derived from a pagan Christian culture.

We resent the British because we feel that Britain short-changed Nigeria. We at Independence received from the British, an independence only in name but not in content. Within Nigeria we cannot find cohesion, because we have always seen the North as intimidating and always threatening to swallow the rest of Nigeria. When we look back at Nigeria whenever we try to rationalize our fate, we discover that of the three founding fathers Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe, Sir. Ahmadu Bello and Chief Obafemi Awolowo, we find that only Dr. Azikiwe saw the new Nigerian state as a nation, which had arrived, whereas the other two partners saw Nigeria as an entity, which could be used.

The Biafran warlord, however, blamed the British government for the woes of African countries which they granted independence whilst at the same time maintaining an unquestionable sphere of influence over the territories: “The wind of change was blowing across Africa British-inspired federalism became the most touted and most popular political philosophy. The philosophy had the magic of keeping desperate nations together in one party”.
He contended that the concept on the surface appeared attractive but the reality of it condemned states to long period of self questioning, pointing out “No British inspired federalism ever worked. A great deal had been said about the withdrawal of colonialism from Africa, but it would seem that the most vital effect of that withdrawal has been ignored by many writers.

When the British Government in Whitehall imposed a federal structure on any African polity, it set up also a train of concomitant events, which is best, described as a comedy of errors. Politics became a drama played out between an intangible philosophy called federalism and a people totally ignorant of the philosophy. Federalism to work has to come from within and not imposed from outside. Federalism works more from the spirit than from the law. Nigeria had struggled for and had regained her independence, whereas on the other hand Britain deftly put on her a straitjacket called federalism.