₦airaland Forum

petra1:
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Because Jesus had fulfilled that. There are shadows in the law .which Christ fulfilled. Circumcision was not required because Christ has become circumsicsin. But there is no fulfillment for your personal prayer,offering ,tithe ,fasting ,alms worship etc. they are principles .

Not just Circumcision....but the entire law of moses was condemned by Paul,Barnabas and Peter in Acts 15
U said paul never condemned the law of moses and i offered U a scripture to prove otherwise...

The issue with the law was that men sought it for righteousnes . It cannot give a man , salvation,perfection­ . Because man was imperfect . Reference to the law . Relates the the ability to be perfected by it or made righteous.. it's not dealing with the principles of Gids kingdom mentioned in the law

It was already predicted that Christ was going to bring justification and righteousness.

Isaia­h 53:11 (KJV Strong's)
. . . .by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities.

[1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV Strong's)
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness [/­b], and sanctification, and redemption:

Romans 10:4-5 (KJV)
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the [b] righteousness [/­b] which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.


You can see The content of the law is good on its own as long as a man does not seek to be justified by them

Based on my reply to U,i expected a response where Christ made separation of which law to abolish and which to discard...Hence,i expect those scriptures....but i do know very well that no law supersedes the one given to christ when he became a high priest...

[color=#77007­7]Romans 7:12 (KJV Strong's)
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
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I have also refuted this scripture using 1 Timothy 1:8
8 We know that the [b] law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made NOT for the RIGHTEOUS but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
And going by Romans 7:12,its possible that NO one can keep the law of moses....Or can U?
15 Christ ended the law with its many commands and rules. Ephesians 2:15

It's as simple as it is . Priesthood changed from Levi to Christ . A type of Melchizedek. The tithe collector!

U didnt answer the question...The law also changed bro...And yet U accuse me of evasion
Sorry bro...Melchizedek is no tithe collector! That's wat U want to believe because U are also a tithe collector!

I explained this above. . Christ is our circumcision,justifi­cation righteousness. We attain that by salvation. But that doesn't take away the moral value of Gods kingdom

Do i have a feeling that U are trying to challenge what was written by Paul?
Its crystal clear...whether moral value or not....All laws have been done away with....

15 Christ ENDED THE LAW with its MANY COMMANDS AND RULES. Ephesians 2:15a ERV
15 He rendered the Law inoperative, along with its commandments and regulations, Ephesians 2:15a ISV

Don't miss my point . I told you it wasn't a perfect example . My point is the Constance of moral value .

Moral or not...The comparison doesn't fit
The law is a unified entity that can not be shared in bits and pieces....
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
If james said that if U stumble on one of the laws,then U are guilty of ALL...It simply means the law of moses whether moral or not moral is taken holistically!

I believe my response already answeeed that. It's only on the ground of seeking justification.

And i responded by saying U dont seek to apply a law that cannot justify U or put U right with God...

A principle doesn't have to be daily . Abraham prayed only once by record

Wrong bro...
Abraham interceded for sodom Genesis 18:16-33
Abraham prayed to God for healing on Abimelech Genesis 20:17
Abraham prayed for a son Genesis 15:2

Don't even go there at all. All these war spoil exchange . I gave you you the references . It was tithe .

And i refuted the reference with scriptures just to show that war spoils given to Melchizedek by Abraham was not the same as the one stipulated in the law...
Melchizedek met Abraham.offered his refreshment,Abraham in a show of good gesture gave him a 10th of war spoils...and gave the rest to the king of Sodom....there by taking nothing with him...Simple!
U Just want to make a doctrine out of this simple gesture....as if Abraham was forced or obligated to do so...smh

Were there books? What books ?

I knew U wud claim U said nothing like that....
U said the reason why the unspoken or mouthed revelation of the tithe to Abraham wasnt recorded was because there wasnt ENOUGH BOOKS for such documentation!

It has a lot to do with my point brother

Good then open a thread for that....Ur incest points, as important as they are, has no relationship with "tithe being an eternal principle"

It was umbelief . He didn't wait for God.

It was still an intentional Act...waiting for God isn't the point...did he do so or not?

Kindly proove it

Lets start with Ur pre-law tithe,
Which U claim was a mouthed revelation by God to Abraham...Unfortunately,nothing of such could be found in the bible...which can only mean two things:Its either U are trying to assume whats not written in the bible or Ur tithe being an eternal principle has no foundation...Hence its already dead on arrival!

Current version of tithe:
based on Deuteronomy 14:22-29,A tither is meant to set aside its tithe of his grain,new wine,oil,flocks and eat of his or her tithe every year...Then after every three years,U offer Ur tithe to.... the foreigners, orphans, and widows who live in your towns and levites
Unfortunately,there is no levite but Most churches today have made the pastor or minister as a levite and am wondering where they came up with such scripture that gives a pastor or minister the grounds to be a levite!
And where is it stated that tithe must be of an income when the bible stated clearly that it was of farm produce...
Can U now see the error associated with today's tither's pattern of tithing?
U dont even obey the tithe that U are applying but run to malachi to justify ur tithe payments

petra1:
Read the whole passage . It's about sin and atonement.

The document below will give better understanding

Was trying to point out burning of incense as a law....which u mistakenly tot was incest

The shadows are fulfilled ,the principles remain .

Which doesn't include tithe...Unless U are still fantasizing about the "spoken revelation of Abraham" which we all know is only a figment of your imagination....

Matthew 5:17 (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Strong's Concordance
teleó: to bring to an end, complete, fulfill
Original Word: τελέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: teleó
Phonetic Spelling: (tel-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I end, accomplish, pay
Definition: (a) I end, finish, (b) I fulfill, accomplish, (c) I pay.

There was no way christ wud demolish a law that he came to bring to an end through his death....
This is further understood using Galatians 3:24
24 I mean the law was the guardian in charge of us until Christ came. After he came, we could be made right with God through faith. 25 Now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law to be our guardian.
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Brother . Paul quoted the law. What safest thou .?

.Ephesians 6:2-[/b]3 (KJV)
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

And paul wrote that christ ended the law....
Ephesians 2:15
15 [b]Christ ended the law with its many commands and rules. His purpose was to make the two groups become one in him. By doing this he would make peace.
Hebrews 7:18-19
18 The old rule is now ended because it was weak and worthless . 19 The Law of Moses could not make anything perfect. But now a better hope has been given to us. And with that hope we can come near to God.

So on what ground would you condemn incest? Or homosexuality

On the grounds that U dont sleep with ur siblings of which U dont need a law to tell U dat....So bro U actually need a law to tell U not to sleep with Ur sisters?
Do U need a law to stop U from being a homo?
Did God create Adam and jack or Eve and mary in the garden of eden?
Is masturbation a sin?

Maybe oversight
. . . . . .

I hope so....

plainbibletruth:
Honestly, i'm somewhat disappointed in these your responses.
NOTHING in the Psalm you quoted talks about tithing.
Jesus was addressing the Jews before the church began.That does not make it a standard for the church

Seriously It got me laughing when i noticed the psalm scriptures he used to show that tithe was a pre law....
The one that hasn't made me stop laughing is dis absurd idea that Abraham received a "mouthed revelation about tithe" but there was no book to either cover such event or record the lives of Abraham's family....

petra1:
Incense was for sin. Jesus was sin bearer . Don't go in a circle . Where is the scripture that says tithe was taken away

Ohh lord...bro petra1... burning of incense was part of the law of moses...Not a sin
2 Chronicles 13:11
Exodus 30:7-9
Maybe U are thinking of "incest"...but i meant "incense"

There's difference between content and application . Brother . The law was a system . It man could not attain righteousness by the system or perfection. But that's not a condemnation of good value contained in the law.

True but both are related cos U cannot do without the other...
...a law that cant justify or make U perfect which is the will of God,is as good as useless or worthless....
Can U pour a used oil into your car engine and hope it will work fine?
Certainly not...Once the content has lost its value ,what's the use of its application ?

[s]Do you steal ? Do you worship idol ? Do you commit incest . Do you dishonor parent . I want to believe your answer is NO. it's a contradiction for you .[/s]

Like i said earlier,U dont need a law for that...
Romans 13:8-10

The law is the law of God . It's the revelation of Gods mind . I asked you a question which you were not bold enough or honest to answer . What scripture was the early church using?
Let me answer it for you. It's the law which you demonize that was the scripture for the church!

I answered that question explicitly for you unfortunately,U ignored it and went to another topic that had nothing to do with our discus...for the benefit of those reading,i present to you that response....
ACTS 15:1-11
Then some men came to Antioch from Judea and began teaching the non-Jewish believers: “You cannot be saved if you are not circumcised as Moses taught us.” 2 Paul and Barnabas were AGAINST THIS TEACHING and argued with these men about it. So the group decided to send Paul, Barnabas, and some others to Jerusalem to talk more about this with the apostles and elders.
5 Some of the believers in Jerusalem had belonged to the Pharisees. They stood up and said, “The non-Jewish believers must be circumcised. We must tell them to obey the Law of Moses!”

7 After a long debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “My brothers, I am sure you remember what happened in the early days. God chose me from among you to tell the Good News to those who are not Jewish. It was from me that they heard the Good News and believed. 8 God knows everyone, even their thoughts, and he accepted these non-Jewish people. He showed this to us by giving them the Holy Spirit the same as he did to us. 9 To God, those people are not different from us. When they believed, God made their hearts pure. 10 So now, why are you putting a heavy burden around the necks of the non-Jewish followers of Jesus? Are you trying to make God angry? We and our fathers were not able to carry that burden. 11 No, we believe that we and these people will be saved the same way—by the grace of the Lord Jesus.”
If U claim that the apostles used the law of moses to teach the early Christians,why was Paul and Barnabas against the teaching of the law of moses when some men from Antioch said that the gentiles must do what moses taught them?
Why did Peter also condemn such teaching when some jews asked that the converted gentiles obey the laws of moses?
Bro now we know who is lying btw us...cos scripture shows that!

Without the law you have no written document of the oracle of God. The law contains some aspects which were shadows of christ which were fulfilled in christ. Such were the weak element you're holding on to. It didn't take away the moral value in the law , There was judicial law, moral law and law which has to do with sacrifices for sin ,atonement etc. You need to get out of the petty petty things you're picking on and dwell on big picture .

This is yet another manipulative and deceptive statement that lacks substance,scripture or direction....
I have offered scriptures after scriptures to attest the invalidation and abolishing of the law of moses..
Unfortunately,U are yet to present just one scripture in the entire bible to challenge or refute Hebrews 7:18 or Romans 10:4 or ephesians 2:14 - 16 or colossians 2:6 - 23 which was written by the same paul..
Rather U keep making Unfounded assumptions...saying Christ abolished some laws and left some....Yet U claim am the one cherry picking?
What do U understand by the scripture,hebrews 7:12?
For when the PRIESTHOOD is CHANGED, the LAW must be CHANGED also.

Paul believed in the law. Christianity is not in adverse position with the moral value of the law . Because they are based on principles.
Acts 24:14 (NLT)
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Then some men came to Antioch from Judea and began teaching the non-Jewish believers: “You cannot be saved if you are not circumcised as Moses taught us.” 2 Paul and Barnabas were AGAINST THIS TEACHING and ARGUED with these men about it. acts 15:1-2
15 Christ ended the law with its many commands and rules. His purpose was to make the two groups become one in him. By doing this he would make peace. Ephesians 2:15 ERV
But people who depend on following the law to make them right are under a curse. As the Scriptures say, “They must do everything that is written in the law. If they do not always obey, they are under a curse Galatians 3:10 ERV
A final nail to the coffin of ALL the LAWS of moses was contained in Hebrews 7:18

Nigeria had had several constitutions. But the moral values are constant. Even though this may not be perfect example but Murder will always be murder.

The law of moses was superior and still superior to the nigerian constitution...
The law is a unified entity which can not be shared in bits and pieces just for some folks to choose which to obey and which to discard just like the nigerian constitution which keeps being changed every year like christmas wrapper to suit a few people in the country...

The foundation for the new testament was based on the old . It was man's imperfection in his flesh that became the challenge . The law was good but man lacked the ability to do the works because of the sin nature . God brought a new law which is a programming in man's spirit . By this man now has ability to do the law as a result of the nature of righteousness.

So WE finally agreed that there was indeed a new law by God which is more superior to the old....right?...i thought the only law was the one given by moses..interesting!

Romans 7:14 (KJV)
Romans 7:22 (KJV)
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Same law Paul and barnabas condemned in Acts 15:1-2
Same law Paul rebuked the Galatians from observing in Galatians 2 and 3?
Same law he called weak,useless and worthless in Hebrews 7:18?

Principles transcend dispensations . Principles predate the law. And the fact that they were document in the law doesn't invalidate them.

In the case of tithe,there was no mention as a spiritual principle....such principle must be done on a daily basis and also contained in the scriptures which was never the case...
Using the exchange btw Abraham and Melchizedek as grounds to classify tithe as a spiritual principle is not only faulty but laughable...
We can as well use any one-off incident that occurred before the law and use as an ethernal principle....like i said,Its baseless and laughable...
Even if we decide to Use the law to validate that one off incident btw abraham and Melchizedek,U will find out that Ur tithe belief using the law as a focal point is faulty and erroneous... the law of moses based on war spoils stipulates that the priest doesn't even get a 10th of the war spoils based on the instruction of God in Numbers 31:21-54

Our discussions would have come to a quick end if you could attend to the questions asked . But I know why and you know why you're avoiding them. So let's see how long it will take you.

Contrary to Ur opinions and surprisingly ur hasty assumptions,i haven't avoided and will never avoid any question asked....If there was any one avoiding my questions and inputting unfounded verses in the scriptures,it has been U...
Cos i see no reason why ur tithe principle will be based on an unspoken revelation to Abraham which was NEVER written in the bible simply because,according to Petra1,there were no BOOKS then
Like i have said and keep saying,If U want Us to open a new thread about the laws of moses including ur dearly beloved incest,Please do so and i will gladly show up but for the benefit of this thread and issue at hand,lets stick to ur lofty analogy which states that tithe is an "eternal principle"

What has a man's error got to do with spiritual act .

Everything....It was not an error like U said...It was an intentional Act to sleep with their maid....

Then let's stick to the topic of the thread .

If we decide to stick to the topic of the thread which is why pastors avoid Deutronomy 14:22-29...It will not only contradict ur pre law-tithe principles but also render tithe being practiced by most believers (Including U) as fraudulent and based on falsehood!

. I can't find where the early church taught against incest . Can you explain that?

Thats becos the subject matter is "tithe" not "incest" not to kill or to bear false witness....
But seriously,i dont need the law to tell me "incest" is wrong...it's just common sense....
Even Romans 13:8-10 explains clearly that no matter the law that was given was summed up into LOVE!!

So What book did they document ?

Seriously are U asking me that? were U not the one who said there were no books to record ur unfounded documentation of the lives of Abraham and his family?
Am Just laughing and wondering where on earth U got such concocted and misguided thinking to feel that what was written in the bible was not enough and U wanted to help God put more in the bible through guess work...
Revelation 22:18-19
....Just accept the scriptures U find there bro and not put or insert whats not there.....Its deceptive to make such lie that Abraham received the tithe principle through a "mouthed revelation" that was never recorded in the bible.

Jesus endorsement was good enough and 1cor 9 was clear enough

Going by what U have said so far about tithe being an eternal principle,Ur tithe beliefs are not based on 1 Corinthians 9....
There was no mention of tithe for those who preach the gospel and that does not only include ministers but other Christians who teach the word of God...

2 Corinthians 9:14
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that THOSE who PREACH the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
This scripture includes any believer that preaches the good news....
Notice that the bible says RECEIVE A LIVING OR SUPPORT NOT collecting of tithes....
Along the same lines, the Master directed that those who spread the Message be SUPPORTED by those who believe the Message. MSG
It is the same with those who have the work of telling the Good News. The Lord has commanded that those who tell the Good News should get their LIVING from this work.
This same teaching was also admonished by Jesus christ to his disciples when they went out to preach the gospel
Matthew 10:7-10

Remember he had been with his dad all the while . This was his first time of setting out as an adult . How did Jacob know about tithes? Why not 5%.

Thats because U dont know and U are only assuming what jacob was thinking....Even as a bible scholar or student,U cannot base ur analysis or theories based on assumptions....The bible said Jacob Vowed and thats where it ends!
Jacob made a VOW not tithe....
A vow can be any percentage and between two people based on the person's volition....
The bible writes that he made a VOW....accept it and stop trying to create Ur own scenarios about Jacob's vow....

GENESIS 28:20
20 Then JACOB MADE A VOW, saying, “If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear
So many people before the law have made vows....does that now mean those vows apply to us as Christians?

Deal with it

But thats exactly what U are doing....

Beautiful . But it's not by the number of times recorded but rather as a principle . Abraham only prayed once . So it's not about the number .

Occurrence implies relevance according to what was written....and no Abraham didn't pray just once and that wasn't the only prayer recorded before the law...

Lie upon lie .What do you say to these .
Hebrews 7:6 (KJV)
Hebrews 7:9 (KJV)

Abraham never tithed....Hebrews 7:6 shows that for such to be called a tithe,it wud have to be btw a levite who receives such tithe and a priest of a levitical order...which was contained in the law of moses in numbers 18:20...
The main substance of that scripture was to draw a comparison between the levitical priesthood and the priesthood of Melchizedek...
There is a contrast between Abraham war spoils and the levites tithe....
While Abraham gave a 10th of the war spoils to king Melchizedek and gave the rest to the king of sodom,the levites gave a 10th to the levitical priesthood while they kept the rest of the tithes which happened to be of farm produce DEUTRONOMY 14:22-29;NUMBERS 18:20;DEUTRONOMY 26
At the end,the comparison was only meant to show the superiority of the Melchizedek order over the levitical priesthood based on the following attributes
"resembling the Son of God, and he remains a priest forever." NOT tithe....Like U want us to believe!
And lets be honest with our selves,
The law tithe was an obligation,
Abraham was under no obligation to give Melchizedek of the war spoils...
The law tithe was based on farm produce and cattle(DEUTERONOMY 14:22-29;NUMBERS 18:20;DEUTERONOMY 26)
Abraham fought to rescue his cousin lot from the captivity of the kings where he came back with war spoils...(Hebrews 7:1-2;Genesis 14:17-24)
The levites received a tithe from the people of israel and gave the levitical priest a 10th of a 10th...
Abraham gave not from his possessions or from his people's possession but from the war spoils which was recovered during battle...
Hence,it wud be wrong to say Abraham tithed....

[s]Is that a today rebelationWhen did he start being wealthy? Just in your own generation? He has been who he has been . It's about worship .
Psalms 50:12-14 (KJV)

I asked U a very simple question....Wud ur earthly father ask anything from U wen he is already wealthy? Its a YES or NO

What you need to understand,there are different kinds of giving . They all have their blessings. Giving to God ,(tithes offerings ) giving to mog ,giving to the poor (alms),giving to parents , giving to fellow brethren etc .

There is no distinction when it comes to benevolence....
2 Corinthians 8:7
7 But since you excel in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in the love we have kindled in you—see that you also excel in this GRACE OF GIVING.
Benevolence is not an obligation like tithe...Once a condition is attached to what U give,its no longer giving but a payment...
2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Each one of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give. You should not give reluctantly or under obligation to give. God loves those who are happy to give.

I didn't see it . I don't mind if you can kindly do that.

Thats Ur problem not mine but that is exactly what U said!

The passage you quoted, did it not contradicts your kalo kalo God claim? What do you say to verse 6
2 Corinthians 9:6(KJV)
6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.
Sparingly has to do with hesitance or greed but a believer is a generous giver...
The key word is generosity Not offering some thing to get some thing...which is tithe....
Okay lets say U are generous without tithing,will U still be wealthy?

It's security plan

Really?
A plan that was made to the people of israel?
The one which U are not even observing?
In Christ we are made complete and receive ALL that we need...Not tithe
Ephesians 1:3

If you obey the law blessing . Disobey curse. Malachi only gave deeper insight. Devourer is rebuked etc. The issue is blessing is grace . The absence of blessing is curse .

Malachi was written to the people of israel who were under the law of moses not grace....are U saying dere was grace during the time of malachi?
You inserted "ONLY" I believe in tithes as a kingdom principle , just like prayer ,worship ,offering ,fasting , alms giving etc
Well i know better about Ur tithe beliefs....the unspoken revelation that was mouthed to Abraham but wasn't too important to be recorded because there was no book or no ink then according to petra1

[color=purple]Joshua 1:8 (KJV)
1 Timothy 4:15 (KJV)
James 4:6 (KJV)
Proverbs 29:23 (KJV)
2 Peter 1:2 (KJV)
Proverbs 13:15 (KJV)

I tried to study these scriptures to find GRACE OF TITHING but i found NONE....Maybe Paul forgot to insert that in his letter to the epistles....Or maybe that might be an unspoken revelation by Paul which he failed to tell the church maybe because there wasn't enough "books to cover that"....
Bro Petra1....This ur concoction strong Ohh

The new law is not a pronouncement by Jesus . It's a programming in the newly recreated sprint . It's a nature of love and righteousness. Which not only gives us right standing but gives us ability to do right . But to do right . Knowledge of scripture is require . You can't do what you don't know . And that's where the law comes in.
A family may may do incest or homosexual following the carnal impulses without knowing that it's wrong . It's only in those precious scriptures you condemn they can see the wrong .
Romans 7:7
Yes it does pronounce Christ cos he is a high priest of the new covenant which contains new laws....

As much as i agree with U that knowledge of the scripture is required to be made right,Its important to understand that NOT all scriptures APPLIES to a believer in christ....
Are U aware of the law of christ?
Are U also aware that there was a new law that supersedes that of the law of moses?
Remember that knowledge of homosexuality or incest does not stop a believer from indulging in them...hence knowledge of such law doesnt take away such impulse...
The new law is based on LOVE and of the spirit of God....
Galatians 5:18 - 23

petra1:
Romans 5:11
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Hebrews 10:3-4
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

This Scriptures are for sin offering and burnt offerings....where is the scripture that states that burning of incense was taken away...

Not true . You should know better than that. What has tithes got to do with atonement. Honoring your father and mother . Alms for the poor . Mercy etc. Just to mention few

I know better according to Hebrews 7:18

18 The old rule is now ended because it was weak and worthless. 19 The Law of Moses could not make anything perfect. But now a better hope has been given to us. And with that hope we can come near to God. ERV

The former way of doing things, a system of commandments that never worked out the way it was supposed to, was set aside; the law brought nothing to maturity. Another way—Jesus!—a way that does work, that brings us right into the presence of God, is put in its place. MSG

Note that i have presented scriptures to buttress my point...Since U said NOT all the laws were abolished,can U provide scriptures to prove which law was abolished and which one REMAINED? Remember Bro petra1, scriptures not man made theology...thanks

Abraham wasn't under the law

Caught U..
If Abraham was not under the law,Why wud U validate tithe payment and process using the law of moses?
U see why Ur insistence that tithe predated makes no sense?

You're rather the evasive one .You should answer the question . Was the church told incest was wrong?

Am not evasive....when i discus,i stick to the subject matter....which is TITHE......There will be enough time to talk about incest but for now stick to the matter at hand..."tithe is a spiritual principle" according to Petra1

He made his mistakes so What about it .

It matters what Abraham does since he is the father of faith...Isn't that right?

Did Paul talk about Incest ?

Like i said,stick to the subject of discuss...It will only complicate the whole discus which i know will delight U

I you're bold and honest to answer the question above and not been as evasive as you have been ,you will find your answer there

Dont know wat U mean...I cant find TITHE practice from those scriptures....the early Christians practiced benevolence in ACTS,Paul admonished the church in Corinthians to grow in the gift of benevolence...So i cant find where the early Christians tithed bro Petra1....

There wasn't a book. They handed revelation down to next generation by mouth. God acknowledged that Abraham would teach his ways to his family .

Thats not true Petra1....Thats a huge lie....stop such blasphemy because of tithe...haba
How did U know there was no book?
U just guessed that it was handed down to them by mouth...
Where did U concoct such a preposterous lie...well,its expected...So am not surprised....Once again,You have failed to offer proof about Ur tithe beliefs...

Genesis 18:19
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him . . .

Recognize that Every details of their lives were not documented. But from Jacob we God to know that the principle was passed down to the next generation. He must have gotten it from his father Isaac who was raised by Abraham

So in ur own thoughts,since their lives were not documented,U inserted Ur own "documentation" to suit Ur own analogy?
Bro petra1 stop making a mockery of ur beliefs.....Just because of tithes...
Ur lies are like Peak Milk....

Genesis 28:22
22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

This is better...

Jacob vowed a vow: “ IF God stands by me and protects me on this journey on which I’m setting out, keeps me in food and clothing, and brings me back in one piece to my father’s house, this God will be my God. This stone that I have set up as a memorial pillar will mark this as a place where God lives. And everything you give me, I’ll return a tenth to you.”

Jacob Vowed which is based on his own volition....
He placed a condition before God which is rather odd...
U cannot use such as proof to justify tithes payment....
Remember It was a Vow...Dont get it twisted bro...U already have!

That's an important point rather . Prayer is A principle of communication. Which started befor the law . It was mentioned in the law. Why don't you abandon prayer because it was mentioned in the law. Why tithe?

Once again U are leaving the subject matter and making random claims using prayers....
U must remember that prayers existed before,during and after the law....Unlike tithes
Prayers were mentioned countless times before the law was given....
How many times was tithe mentioned before the law? None! Thats because Abraham never gave any thing associated with tithe...Simple!

Secondly meditation is a principle . Which started before the law. And mentioned in the law . Why don't you condemn it because it' was in the law?

Check my response above!

Kindly try answer the question . Well I know why you can't answer the question and that's not nice . It shows you're getting the point any way. But here is it . If you're clinging on the fact that no specific instruction was giving directly about tithe and for that reason you don't give God his tithe. There are several issues that don't have records of dos and don'ts in the epistles . Just like the case of incest. . You agree with me that incest is a sin. But the question is . It was mentioned in the law . And that doesn't not go away despite the fact that it's not taught in the church or we don't have such record . Why is it tithe you refuse to give because of the funny excuse that it wasn't taught according to you. Hope youre you're seein the picture . And I believe that's why you are avoiding to answer the questions because it make a mess of the excuse you give for not giving tithes. Secondly if you don't need the law concerning incest why do you need law for tithes?

Bro Petra1,for the benefit of the issue at hand,It will be advisable to stick with the matter at hand...There will be enough time to talk about incest and the other laws of moses....If we start going through all the 613 laws of moses,we may derail the thread which U urself had advised...Like i said the discus btw us is showing that "tithe is an eternal principle"...No story or diversion....Just scripture Usage!!
And dont think for one second that am evading Ur "diversionary questions"...am not like U nah...wen we are done with Ur lofty principle,U can open a new thread for that...

Brother there is difference between having eternal life and laying hold on eternal life. There is difference between being blessed and b
Laying hold on the blessing. It's God part to give which he has done in christ . He also gives us principle on how to lay hold of the graces . It's Gods part to give ,its mans part and responsibility to receive.

Once again i ask...Wud ur earthly father ask anything from U wen he is already wealthy?
Those principles are not and will never be tithes but benevolence!!

Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

I never said such . It's your responsibility to prove otherwise

I had quoted where U said so initially and U still want me to quote it again?
U sud do so....Its for ur upliftment!

Where did scripture say such . kindly back it up. Because my bible says otherwise

Grammar oga grammar...
Generous----Cheerful,open-handed,

2 CORINTHIANS 9:7
7 Each one must give as he has DECIDED IN HIS HEART, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a GENEROUS giver.

That's no news

Good then why do U still need more?

Several reasons

Mind sharing them...

Just loving God by mouth . But no giving awesome revelation you don't even need to pray Sef . After all you own everything. .

Thats Ur concocted analogy....
I ask and he gives me....
Thats what a father wud do...how much more our heavenly father...
U can offer him ur entire possession If that's wat will make U the next Bill gates...

I never said so.

But thats wat tithe is all about?
Paying of tithe in exchange to having "floods of blessings"...abi nah lie?

Windows of heaven , rebuking devoured.

Windows of heaven was quoted in Malachi 3:10
Was there "grace in tithing" in the "law of moses"?
And yet U claim U only obey the predated tithes?

It's a necessity. You do the word of God , you enjoy the blessing or grace each one carry. Just as there is a grace which comes through knowledge. There's is a grace which comes through meditation . There is grace for humility you will be exalted etc .

Scriptures,scriptures,scriptures.....stick to the grace of tithe which is none existent in the bible...If there is let scriptures be ur proof!

God never force any man into anything. You have the right to obey and disobey . You obey enjoy the benefit you disobey you miss the benefit the obedience carry.

Obedience based on the new covenant which has a new law controlled by a new priesthood Jesus christ Is our guide...His priesthood has nullified all existing laws....by bringing the to an end....
Hence If U want to obey the laws of moses,U must ensure U keep all the laws of moses not just tithe...and secondly,Also know that U are making a mockery of the priesthood of christ thereby disobeying God!!
If U claim U are neither for the law or post law,Know that U are no where

petra1:
It's still all part of atonement for sin.

good...is there a scripture that burning of incense has been abolished?
If dere is please provide one for it....
And if I may remind U petra1,ALL the laws of moses were part of the atonement for sin....
scriptures wasn't specific dat some laws were abolished while some remained!

As I said above . There's no point asking me question over and over when your mind is set to rubbish every fact presented .

The reason behind the insistence is because Ur argument lacks substance...d scriptures u presented talked about a law not a pre existing principle which U claim has no relationship with d law

Did he tell the church incest was wrong? Why would he be giving them such when it was a life style. Paul only addressed the church in the areas they had issues .

being rhetorical doesn't suit U...it only makes u look evasive...
In oda words it was a lifestyle for Abraham to sleep with a maid right?
It was also a lifestyle for Abraham to lie?
The issues Paul addressed are well documented in the scriptures and dere is no portion where he included tithes...
If dere was a better place where Paul wud have inserted tithes,it wud have been in 2 Corinthians 8 or 9....
but none mentioned tithes but free will giving....Even the early Christians in acts practised free will giving in Act 4....wouldn't dat have been a beautiful moment to introduce tithes to the gentiles?

My brother . Abraham tithed because it was a principle of faith revealed to him . The law was only a confirmation. Every thing starts from somewhere . Men were not praying to God before until a period in the Generation of Enos .

Genesis 4:26
. . . and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

Hahahahahahahahaha.... So the principle of tithe was revealed to him with no reference from the scripture except him giving war spoils to melkezedek...
how is it possible that no scripture captured this superb revelation by Abraham on the principle of tithe?
Even when Paul was describing Abraham as the father of faith,he didn't even utter that revelation about tithe...chai

Do u see how empty and illogical such analogy from U sounds?
bro pls stop lying...Dis is based on Ur own analogy..Very faulty!

Why have you not outdated prayer despite the fact that it was in the law. Why is it only in the area of giving . We come up with double standard revelation. Offerings and tithes ,prayers worship are Gods kingdom principle

and yet of all the laws of moses,only tithe passed the test of fire according to bro petra1

There had never been a disharmony until few of you in this generation started bringing up new ideas .

Wrong bro,disharmony actually started wen some pastors wanted to fleece the congregation by inputting wat was not in d bible....
The early Christians didn't tithe...tithe was never mentioned to the early Christians...rather Paul asked the churches to imbibe "the gift of giving" 2 Corinthians 8
There was real harmony and peace in d body of Christ cos many believers gave out of their own heart which made some to sell their lands and present them at the feet of the apostles to care for those who don't have (Acts 4)

I've been tithing and giving offering from childhood. And the more I study the more I see the reason for it

Wrong bro....U worship God and went to a church because,ur parents were Christians..U tithed because U saw ur parents doing so...U went to church because Ur parents did...U wore ur best clothes because ur parents told U so....during childhood,U did everything u did based on the lifestyle of ur parents...and besides,u had no options den....so don't make up that weak excuse...

Why didn't the early church condemn or preach against incest ?

If Dats a path u want to take,let's start....

Wud u need the law of moses to stop you from killing?
Do u need the law to make U avoid looking at Jr neighbour's wife seductively?
Do u need d law to stop U from stealing?
Do u need a law to make U love?
D
finally,do U need a law to make U avoid making love or hitting on ur siblings?

Because whatever God gives you is to serve him . Those who don't give him his due are worshiping mammon with nice excuse .

God is Ur father and he is willing to make all grace abound to U so that in all things and at all times,having all daT u need will abound in every Good Thing...2 Corinthians 9
He is our father not a master or draconian ruler or a kalokalo master....

Wud ur earthly father ask anything from U wen he is already wealthy?

When did I say that ?

....Go tru Ur previous posts....it obvious u forget wat U have written..

Quote what I say pls. Besides are you saying there's no receiving in giving?

Giving is based on a generous heart,expecting nothing in return from the receiver,
besides,God has made u a wealth reservoir..
U a wealth reservoir because of the promise given in Genesis 12 by God to Abraham...

why wud a wealth reservoir who always gives run out of supply or want to receive...?

..why wud a wealth reservoir want to get wat he or she already has in abundance.... does that make sense?

You love him with mouth only ? You see what we are talking about .

God doesn't need ur money or wealth....ur money or wealth is a physical proof that he is an over wealthy God..
Saying that God needs Ur money is insulting to him...
God is not a man..doesn't think like a man...If God were to be a man,he wud never have offered his son Jesus for the world..keep dat in mind

Like I said,God demands our praises and thanks not our money....

Ur money and by extension ur wealth sud b used to help and provide for others even ministers of the gospel...its a benevolent act which I know wud b hard for U to comprehend based on ur tithe stand...

God doesn't need our giving to bless us . He has blessed us from the foundation of the world in christ.

Very Good...am surprised Dis is coming from U who believes u must offer God sum tin b4 he blesses U

One thing is God giving another thing Is you recieving . Every act of obedience carry a grace .

There's a grace that accompany tithes and offerings . It opens widows to receive.

....and dere was no scripture that accompanied the supposed "grace in tithing"?

Stop using such language as compulsory tithing . Everything is by choice .even salvation

the usage is important to remind U and oda tithers that U don't GIVE tithes but its PAID....
Tithe is a compulsory payment made during the law....
there is nothing like FREE-WILL TITHING ....
its either U r tithing according to THE LAWS OF MOSES or free-will giving according to scriptures....
mixing both is like combining oil and water...it will never mix...

petra1:
Christ has filled that. Burnt offering is a sin offering. Jesus is atonement for sin. There's is no replacement for tithes ,nor free will giving nor alms to the poor . Nor honor for your father and mother .

Dats my issue with U petra1....
was it only burnt offering or sin offering that he "filled"?
wat about burning of incense?
the question U still have not answered is where was tithe an eternal principle before,during and after the law in the scriptures?
God is not an author of confusion....if he knew the importance of tithe,he wud have instructed Paul or peter to inform the converted gentile to also tithe in acts?

petra1:
GIVE GOD HIS TITHE AND OFFERING. you can't worship God with emptiness and spend all on your self by pretending you're not aware .

which tithe are U referring to?
If I can recall,U mean the "law tithe" ?
But U said the tithe U observe predated the law...in other words,it existed before the law which U labelled an 'eternal principle'....Unfortunately, U and other faithful tithers have been unable to show scriptures to prove that Abraham was actually obeying an eternal principle wen he offered the 10th of war spoils to king Melchizedek!

Which mean it was a man made insertion....which has been causing disharmony in the body of Christ...

why didn't the early Christians tithe in acts?
Why will U say wat God has not said...?
who told U God needs ur money?

who told U money was d very reason why God blesses us..?

So according to petra1,God is now a ponzi scheme or a baba ijebu that offers wealth in exchange 4 ur money?

U can deceive some gullible fellows with that fraudulent concept,but U can't deceive everyone...

Saying man can't worship God with emptiness is disrespectful and a mockery of the sovereignty of God almighty...

God demands our praise and worship with a sincere and loving heart willing to know him and serve him with love and zeal!

God is our beloved father.... wud a loving and faithful father demand ur money or possession before helping his children?

U and many tithers are the reasons why atheists mock and insult God on the religious section with these fraudulent and manipulative theologies...

scobaba:
End time Husband.

A chick i dated during NYSC (2006/2007)did same. we were retained by our various offices. somehow she was making more money. she said i dint look like someone ready to settle down in 2 years, i said add anoda 2 making 22, i never still ready. we parted ways but still remained friends.

she kept telling me of one big offshore boy on her neck, last last they started rolling. 6 Months later wedding bells. They then relocated.

Fast forward to 2015, I met her here in Abuja. me too don marry born. she was surprised. then she told me how she seperated from the guy after 2years. she also sponsored wedding and everything that followed. the guy kept lying about one big 120million Naira contract he did for EXXONMOBIL. After 2years, she discovered he was scam and filed for Divorce. though as at then the court just gave them 1 year seperation or something like that. As at november 2016 when we last spoke, they were still seperated.

Some ladies are too desperate to get married...so they get easily deceived by guys who show off their flashy stuffs...had that lady stayed with U,maybe her situation wud have been better....patience is a virtue people lack!

plainbibletruth:
It is clear from this your answer that it’s likely you are UNABLE to explain what ‘eternal principles’ are or what that phrase means. You guys must have picked it up from somewhere and are now using it to sidetrack or deflect others from seeing your true motives for tithing.

Not all biblical principles of previous dispensations apply to the church. If Acts 15 does not clear that in your mind then I doubt if anything will.

Therefore, a SINCERE Christian would want to KNOW what applies to the church today. That a thing is in the Bible DOES NOT necessarily mean it applies to the church. The church HOLDS a higher position in God’s plan than any other past dispensations or any that is to come! You will be belittling the church to think that you can lump it up with any other dispensation.

I genuinely hope that your inability or perhaps unwillingness to clearly explain yourself does not mean you’re being DECEPTIVE. Perhaps it is that you do not really understand a phrase you may have picked up from some pastor or somewhere.

Very True....

Hahahahahahahahaha... as usual...lol

petra1:
If you can't take the "eternal ". Kindly take the "principle " we have derailed the thread enough.

bro Petra1....am glad U know we have done so cos that isnt meant to be the subject of this thread....
Though i dont intend to derail this thread any further,but really wanted to know where U got Ur beliefs from....Just to learn(seriously)
Unfortunately,U made reference to what cannot be found in the scriptures....and most of ur replies or responses,with all due respect, have either been evasive or weak....
U even equated it with prayers and worship which i find insulting to God simply because U intend to squeeze in tithes...haba
U have stated consistently that tithe is an ethernal principle or what ever you intend to call it....
Now All am simply asking is for you to tell me where it was stated in the bible which U also have....and while U are still looking for it,show me why burnt offerings were not also included since it was also a pre-tithe....

petra1:


By the way when I changed my moniker . It wasn't secret . I opened a thread on it.

Empty barrel. Abeg , Next person pls?

And that's ur reply to tithe being an eternal principle?

Thank God for the bible...The level of deception in the church today is alarming...!!

plainbibletruth:
By "eternal" do you mean that before time and creation of man tithing existed?
In other words, what do you mean by "eternal "?

Getting an explicit answer from him is like asking "a cat to swim"....No b today matter ohh...

Gombs:


These guys wan use me shine na, I had to call this one to order.

Pride and pride...who did U put to order?.....keep deceiving Ur self...smh

petra1:
The kingdom of God runs on principles . And these principles transcend dispensations . They are revelations of God. either revealed in the law or before the law. Tithes, offerings , prayers ,alms, honoring parents , worship, etc are practice based on spiritual laws.

So you can say you believe in one and demonize the other . Non tithers usually claim thy only give offering and not tithes because tithe is under the law . When we Made them know that both are mentioned in the law. They came against offerings also . What about ,other spiritual principles such as prayer ,fasting ,alsms for the poor, honoring your parents etc. if you do all these which were also mentioned in the law . Why don't you tithe as well . So my point is that the fact that something is mentioned in the law. Doesn't mean it's not applicable , some of Gods principle are revealed in the the law . But these principles existed before the law.



For example the law says Don't worship idol ,honor your father etc. will you worship idol because the law says don't? Will you dishonor your parents ?

If everything contained in the law is not applicable just because the law mentioned them why would Paul be quoting the law to the gentile church like Ephesians

Ephesians 6:2
Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise

You still haven't answered his question....give explicit scriptures where it is written that tithe is an eternal principle that was applied before and after the law....


...If U say Abraham tithed before the law because it was a "eternal principle",we can as well claim that burnt offering or burning of incense or circumcision was also a spiritual or eternal principle since it was done before the law....

BushWickBill:
petra1,

The matter is simple. No need for verbal gymnastics and somersaults .

Answer the question.

How is tithing an "eternal principle"?

Also back up with simple and concise scripture to prove your points.

No weak jibes or short cuts.

I'm tired of people like you who claim to be pastors weaving and worming your way out of knots you tie your "sheeple" in.

Please answer the question. This is not the fake healing sagal. Our eyes can see clearly.

Some one told me some time ago that when these tithe preachers on nairaland get questioned about their tithe beliefs,they turn it into a question directed to U (If they dont know wat to say) thereby taking U away from the initial question...
this is done intelligently without any one noticing...
at the end,they will never answer that question and wen the heat is on them,they snap and start dishing out insults and making a mockery of ur defense or submissions....
when U decide to pay them back in their own coin,they turn into helpless victims ......So easy to notice their pattern

Gombs:
[s]It's one thing to lie it's another thing entirely to be a liar. Your assumptions are a reflection of who you are and what you do. Not everyone is twisted like you na.

I know I've butt hurt you so many times on nairaland till you got this new moniker, and my similar stance with Petra1 has been killing you adequately... But that's not a reason to slander me and another with unfounded accusations.

I've been on many tithe debate threads before you decided to get an Internet device, do well to carefully throw your tantrums elsewhere.

Thanks[/s]

"Gombs come ohh....come and see" said petra1
....Hahahahahaha..... Bro Gombs....I have come 2 expect this from u and ur mentor.....always d victim and Neva accepting responsibility for Ur actions....

....and no...this is my moniker....OPENMINE...I don't hide under Anoda moniker 2 deceive people or give out jibes just 2 mock d same Christians U call "brothers and sisters"...if folks on d thread can take a stroll from the first 2 d last page,Dey will notice how U consistently dish out insults 2 Christians like U who seek d truth....
I once called U out 2 plead wit U 2 stop d insults dat everyone was here 2 learn....and ur response? dat "I sud mind my business,after all am not insulting U"
Let people here be d judge not U....but even without saying,Ur insults are all over d place...."Always d victim"..."tithe is an eternal principle"...Hahahahahahahahaha.... wat a joke!

Gombs:
And you're the Christian I should continue discussions with? See Candour, we've been on different pages with regards tithing for years... And I'm yet to see him insult vaguely and maliciously my person or much more other Christians just because they tithe.

U see I admire candour and I respect his vast knowledge on d tins of d word....but don't tink 4 one second dat most of ur jibes havent gotten 2 him...
d truth is dat U Gombs want people 2 be calm while U dish out jibes and insults yet U expect odas 2 be calm....how thoughtful....bro pack well....U and petra1 are just d same...evading questions, throwing jibes,insulting wit unnecessary memes only 4 U to turn into a helpless victim who did nothing wrong or cannot hurt a fly....Lol...

Gombs:
[s]Brothers and sisters.. How can any sane Christian type this.


Why call someone's dad or mum or son or daughter or uncle, grandparents etc "hopeless" just because you don't like tithing? [/s]

And you're the Christian I should continue discussions with? See Candour, we've been on different pages with regards tithing for years... And I'm yet to see him insult vaguely and maliciously my person or much more other Christians just because they tithe.

That's why I have so much respect for him, not you all who keep wanting to be relevant I have the religious section.

Sir, I'm done with you.

Cheers

Hahahahahaha..and U are a sane Christian..?
so u have suddenly become a victim in d story called tithe?.. lol. ohh pls Gombs don't make me laugh Dis morning....a pot calling a kettle black?
who by d way is ur brother and sister?
D ones u and petra1 deceive every day with ur half baked theological teachings....?
And for ur info bro,i never called anyone "hopeless",even d highlighted word is "helpless".....don't tell me U r now acting like d victim on Dis thread.....while U and ur oga keep insulting people up and down....U folks haven't seen insults....by d time,many Christians' eyes of understanding are open 2 Dis day time fraud aka tithe is an "eternal principle", U and ur mentor will run away from nairaland....lol

petra1:
Really? Do I even know the question you're referring to. Well If you can do the job it's not important to either you or me

like I said U don't want 2 learn,cos if u wanted 2,d question is waiting for U...seek and U shall find...

petra1:
That's what I've been doing all along for many pages . And revealing your contradiction . You demonized tithes and uphold other principles . That's why I asked you a simple question. To out your contradictions to rest What' scripture did they study in the days of Paul . And the honest answer you don't have the boldness to answer is that it was the same OT scriptures which you have demonized . That's not very nice

Hahahahahahahahaha....wat have u been doing..?

Seriously....so ur response or weak defence as reasons why tithe is an eternal principle is because u intend asking me Anoda question?
Just read tru wat U just said....dat d only way 2 respond 2 my question is by asking me Anoda question?
Just tell me U don't have d scriptures and U just concocted those vain theologies just 2 make U feel like U r above d bible....simple!

petra1:
Emi fraudu? Let's clap for you Mr He /she

I hope U r clapping dat U just got exposed dat why U started speaking Anoda language...
..d last time I checked U have either evasive which has become ur trademark or U r trying 2 cover up ur deficiencies which is too obvious....unfortunately, U r seriously do a poor job wit dat....

petra1:
I preach the full gospel bros . I talk about tithe because I'm a tither .

Full gospel and tithe?
Who dash U full gospel?
Am just wondering wat U will be dishing out 2 those helpless congregation.... too bad most have a bible but prefer Ur words 2 d bible....how unfortunate!

petra1:
What I told you is that if you you asked a question and I missed it out. Just kindly re ask or re post .

No bro....If U r the type that wud want to learn,U wud have gone back to my previous post 2 extract those questions but U r feeling like U dont even need to...Thats pride bro
Okay just one question...only just one....prove Ur tithe beliefs aka tithe is a "eternal principle"....Hope U have seen it?

petra1:
I was referring to you . That all these yabis is just because I asked you a simple question. "What scripture were they reading in Paul's day" and you began to dabaru everywhere . I understand Sha and it made me feel good you know .

Bro petra1...stop being mischievous or sounding like u wanna cry....before U asked me those simple questions about paul's day bla bla bla...i had asked U series of questions including ur beliefs about tithe being an eternal principle...guess what?
I didnt get a single reply...but rather U kept asking me questions and i replied....And guess what i dont see it as making U feel good...It simply makes U look fraudulent and evasive
U know absolutely nothing about Ur beliefs....

petra1:
Mba nunu maybe that's what you do . It's childish na. Gombs doesn't speak my language . We don't agree on all points. So he can't back up for me nor speak for me. Why would I need support . It's not about how many people with you . It's about how strong my convictions.

Ohh yes...Gombs is ur savior any time U r lost or Speechless...You call him to backup with "funny memes" and a "like" ..Or maybe he sud be the one to reply me since U dont even know how to prove Ur tithe beliefs...but seriously,How can a pastor who preaches tithe cannot defend his tithe beliefs from the bible...Astonishing

petra1:
Same response as above . That's what we see you guys do na. Ibe not complained of being overwhelmed yet .

No same response...bro U dont know about Ur tithe beliefs....If U had known,U wud have saved me all dese write ups by offering me an explanation of ur tithe beliefs using scriptures...but alas just like Ur oda moniker,U cant even do so....too bad

petra1:
I've told you what to do

Sorry bro...I didn't get U....d only tin I know u said was that its "between U and God"...which 4 me lacks substance... so if I ask U wat gave U d conviction to believe in God tru Jesus Christ,U will start saying its between U and God?

petra1:
That's not nice . Hide for who? Don't you have another moniker?

Dats no excuse....

petra1:
All these because of one question

bro its a simple question which U r finding so hard to say...which means U r not sure of wat U r doing...

petra1:
Gombs!! . . . See what I'm saying .

So Gombs is now ur replacement/backup guy wen u get overwhelmed and confused.... Hahahahahaha.... I know of only one moniker that can do Dis....and Gombs go waka come....lol

BushWickBill:
Is it the fellow who told a HIV positive person they didn't receive their healing because he didn't tithe? The one involved in that healing scandal?

Nna eh, I can't and won't talk again. These so-called men of God will receive their reward.

Lol...yeah bro dat d guy...hiding under a different moniker...altar ego tins...lol

petra1:
Honesty test. 001. They can't admit it . That means they get my point . Case closed. The rest will be Yabis watch out . When bible fail na yabis remain.

See who is talking?
A guy who is asking for honesty yet cant even answer a simple question about his tithe beliefs...U even hide under another moniker...who are you fooling...?
The case is closed for U cos u cant prove or defend ur beliefs..Simple!

petra1:
You go come do Wetin na?
Well "THOU SAYETH SHA" . But funny after all the principle principle thing . You no know my writing

I tot i was rubbing minds with some one i dont know...i didnt know it was U...the tithe pastor
Well am still waiting for an answer ohhh....whether u be petra1 or not...

MuttleyLaff:
Alter ego my friend

hmmm....too bad!

Candour:
Yes he's the same and I'm sure he doesnt mean any harm by it.

Family is fine bro. Trust you and yours are well too

Haba but that's being dishonest Nah...we also had Dis issue last year about tithe being a spiritual principle and I must say that I almost called him by his former monicker...its well...my family is fine...Wat happened 2 u on whatsapp?
it seems u no longer use the platform anymore...?

Candour:
Pastor joagbaje with spiritual gymnastics as usual. See what Abraham paid tithes from

Hebrews 7:4 KJV
Now consider how great this man was , unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Are you saying the holy spirit lied there that it was from ONLY spoils of that particular war?

Are U saying petra1 is joagbaje?
That's very serious...I wish I had known earlier...smh
oga candour happy new year...its been a while..how family?

petra1:
It's your interpretation that seem faulty

Romans 7:12 (KJV Strong's)
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.




Once the foundation is faulty . Everything built on it will be faulty. Paul was quoting the law to Ephesians ! They weren't Jews!

Ephesians 6:2 (KJV Strong's)
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise

Unfortunately, its urs which is highly faulty...I have shown u different scriptures to prove dat d law which u ignorantly defend wit all ur might has been abolished and also been rendered useless but u still insist dat its relevant 2 u...

if Paul quoted d law to d Ephesians, why did d same Paul still say in the same Ephesians that Jesus destroyed the law?

why did Paul after saying the law was holy still make a mockery of d same law in Galatians?

didn't Paul who said the law was holy yet he and Barnabas had a confrontation with some Jews who insisted that the gentiles must obey the laws of moses?

and besides,U claim ur tithe is not based on the laws of moses,that d tithe u practice was before the law,why den do u seek 2 obey d law based tithe wen U claim it was before the law...Na wa ohh....Its either tither are confused or simply confused....

U talk about a faulty foundation....U will never find a beta faulty foundation Dan the one a tither uses...
U claim that u tithe based on a pre-law,Oryah show us who tithed,u point 2 Abraham...
okay show us which law Abraham was obeying,u said its spiritual principle.... okay show us d spiritual principle so dat we can learn,U keep evading the question and ask Anoda question...
Just admit it for once that U & ur likes have been exposed and ur doctrine of tithe has been dismantled... long before U even said any thing on tithes...

petra1:
Can I ask a simple question? What was the scripture that they used in Paul's day?

bro dere are several questions I have shown u including d one u intentionally ignored....Answer all my questions and I will try 2 answer urs okay...
starting wit u showing me where tithe is a spiritual principle from d bible....

petra1:
Leave that one between me and God . He knows the heart .

I will keep that in mind next time

petra1:
If the law is as demonized as you paint it . Is ask again why would Paul and the other apostle be quoting the laws

Please point of correction,i didnt demonize the law...God did....and his word also proved it...
As for reasons why Paul kept quoting the laws,
Please observe the following scriptures from Paul....

I Corinthians 9:19 - 23
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the SAKE OF THE GOSPEL, that I may share in its blessings.

petra1:
Romans 10:4 (KJV Strong's)
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Because the Jews sought righteousness through the law.
Philippians 3:9(KJV Strong's)
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
You see the Jews wanted righteousness and perfection by it . Jesus testified same thing too

What are you even saying?
The scriptures you provided only seeks to validate my points that i have made so far....
Unfortunately,am yet to see in all the scriptures you provided where tithe is an "eternal principle"....
If the law could not make you righteous,or cud not make you perfect,then whats the essence of the law to you?

petra1:
John 5:39 (KJV Strong's)
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Hope my point is clearer now. The law is useless if you go to it to be righteous. It you're made righteous by faith. The Jews lack the ability to keep the law because of the sin nature . Now we have received ability to do it.

I was nodding my head that you have finally been able to convince urself about ur initial belief until i stumbled into ur highlighted statement..
Who told U dat U now have the ability to observe or do the law?
Am a 100% sure its not from the bible...or U just inserted it Just as U have been doing...
Bro in other words,you have now received the ability to burn more incense abi?
Cos burning of incense is contained in the law just like tithe...Guy U no try at all
Useless is Useless...worthless is worthless!
Find a worthy fabrication to defend ur tithe payment

petra1:
People actually take me very seriously I receive several mails in appreciation. I'm hoping you will, soon

Well i wish those appreciating have a bible and also study it too....

petra1:
Useless in the ability to perfect a man. Or give eternal life

Good!
if a law can not make a man perfect or give eternal life,then whats its Usefulness?

petra1:
Who is the sinner ? Jew or gentile ?

In the old covenant,the gentiles are sinners
In the new covenant,both jews and gentiles are sinners Until they receive christ as deir lord and saviour!

petra1:
That's when you seek righteousness by the law. One sin is bad enough . I get you you're correct ,but try get me too

I cant get U becos U are complicating yourself and rendering Ur beliefs as being weak....
I cant get U if Ur beliefs are based on human understanding rather than the bible...
I cant also get U if u keep making unsubstantiated statements like tithe being an eternal principle if U cant prove it..