₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
This is the kiler of all killers !

Britain has always had a great navy as as former world power.

The Royal navy was the force that defeated Argentina in Falklands war 1982.

I also think the world of weapons manufacturing and technology is missing Japan due to their long absence from the arms race. Japan is a country that can build great weapons and equipment, but the terms of surrender in world war II and treaty signed with USA has ended Japan's ambition forever I think
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Japan has one of the most powerfull navies in the world

and one of the most advanced MBT's in the world

and a half developed fighter that is comparable to the F22

You would know this if you were actually a military researcher

agaugust:
No air force has dared to challenge NAF, we fought border wars with Chad and Cameroon, yet they refused to fly their jets against us, so do we have to beg their air forces to take off from their airbases? NAF MiG-21 jets have invaded the airspaces of both neighbors and the enemy refused to challenge us air to air.

SAAF used 1970s Mirage F1 to sh.oot down 1950s MiG-21 jet of Cuba, but once the Cuban 1970s MiG-23 jet showed face in the war, South African pilots ran away finally after Cuba sh.ot down several SAAF Mirage F1 jets.

Means SAAF will abandon the air and park it's air superiority jets on the ground once an equal enemy appears in the air

Born cowards, die cowards....South African air force
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Again, thats lots of opinion and not many facts.

SAAF flew sorties right until the end of the war

Your argument is invalid

agaugust:
Nope, you feel free to contact the German embassy and ask for copy of the press release to prove your claims.....you are the ones saying there is a German embassy report, so show us.

Until then, both navies are suspect
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Thats not how the burden of proof works.

You are alleging that DefenceWeb is lying

Your burden is to prove it.

The burden rests with he who makes the allegations

agaugust:
Show us a copy of the investigation report, or a statement directly from the German navy that it was at fault based on that report.

That is the only honest evidence to prove the truth to the whole world
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Feel free to contact the German Embassy and ask for a press release.

agaugust:
Dude, this is why people don't believe whatever you Southies say, too many lies.

I have posted over 20 times on this forum that Cuban MiG-23 jets shot down South African Mirage jets and your air force ran away completely from the air war, thus Cuba won ! Cuban boys disgraced SAAF in the air war .

Cuban teenage pilots with zero war experience sh.ot down 5 South African aircraft including SAAF Mirage jets in air to air dogfights....

"On 27 September 1987 Cuban Major Albert Ley Rivas and Lieutenant Chao Gondin in MiG-23MLs engaged two Mirage F-1CZs of the SAAF's 3rd Squadron and fired three R-60 ("AA-8 Aphid" IR-homing) missiles. According to them, one F-1CZ exploded upon impact by an R-60 and crashed in enemy territory, and the other retired to Namibia after being struck by a second missile."

http://www.laahs.com/content/12-The-Cuban-MiGs/view/5

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Cool citation.

Cubans lost 60 aircraft
http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=131&Itemid=62

And, from a document written by the new SANDF (with no intention to cover up the truth) SAAF losses in Angola were:

Total SAAF losses during the “war years upnorth” amounted to:
- one Mirage F-1AZ
- one Mirage IIIR2Z
- one Canberra,
- five Impala Mk IIs
- one Bosbok, one Cessna 185
- four Pumas
- five Alouette IIIs
- three unmanned remotely piloted vehicles (all as a result of direct
enemy action)

while the following aircraft were also lost in the operational
area:
- one Mirage F-1AZ
- three Impala Mk IIs
- one Kudu
- one Cessna 185,
- three Pumas
- three Alouette IIIs.7

Soucre: The South African Air Force, 1920–2012: A Review of its History and an Indication of its Cultural Heritage

So, the Score-board at the end of the war is:

SAAF losses (in combat): 18
Cuban losses (in combat): 60

Gee, I wonder who won that battle

agaugust:
South Africa is known worldwide for telling lies at random.

I don't care about sentiment of "How will Germany feel is=f we lied against them". The Germans don't care about your struggle for image.

The news report is NOT from German embassy press release, it is news on Defenseweb, a private magazine claiming it was sourced from German embassy, yet we searched the whole internet and CANNOT find any such press report from German embassy.

Proof needed, until then....BOTH NAVIES ARE SUSPECT FOR THAT SH.OOTING INCIDENT !
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What lies has the SAN told?

Tell us.

Fact remains, the Germans have admitted responsibility.

We dont care what you think, facts are facts and you will have to live with that!

agaugust:
Nope, you are the kid here.

Actually you are the resident liar and deceiver here.

I asked for MiG-23 but you posted MiG-21 jet, are they the same ?

SAAF completely withdrew from the air to air engagements because Cuba was s.hooting down South African Mirage jets like insecticide kills houseflies using the MNiG-23 jets.

South Africa LOST the air war and Cuba won ! Forever in history !
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Why is the Mig23 important all of a sudden? We are talking about jet kills, you have desperatly shifted the goalposts.

How many Mirages were shot down? Tell us how many we lost.

Cuban's suffered over 60 aircraft losses to the SADF
http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=131&Itemid=62

SAAF flew hundreds of sorties right until the end of the war. Citations have been posted.

agaugust:
SAAF shot down MiG-21 NOT MiG-23 jets, go back and read my posts. Even @Patches tried to play that game of deception here but I have forced him to admit the truth.



You see South Africa telling lies against Cuba, that's why I said I need proof from German navy because South Africa could just be telling lies against the Germans on the navy shooting/misfire issue.

When a country has the habit of telling lies so much, outsiders will always doubt what you say unless you have 100% proof.

You South Africans have built a permanent image of falsehood around yourselves. Crime does not pay. You lose all credibility
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So now the specific jet is the point of the argument?

Lol, where did that come from?

Fact remains, SAAF has shot down jets.

NAF has never shot down any enemy plane in its history

agaugust:
American CIA and British military mercenaries were fighting along side SADF in Angola to help you stop Cuba from marching straight into Pretoria
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Because you say so?

agaugust:
Nope, quote where I admitted all those your lies that cannot be found in authentic war history records. You only fabricated your own false information and typed it in your laptop keyboard.

All I said was that if South Africa dropped nuclear bomb on Cubans in Angola, the Soviet Union will drop ten times more nuclear bombs on South Africa. Same thing will happen if USSR strikes first with nukes on South Africa, the Americans will defend South Africa by dropping nukes on Cuba
.

Yes, that is called MAD

and that is why Russia would not nuke South Africa if we deployed tactical nukes against Cuban troops

agaugust:
SAAF failed to shoot down any MiG-23....they forced you to ground your air force for the rest of the war in air superiority role.

.

Sorry, what did you say?

agaugust:
The last air war you fought was with ancient 1970s Mirage jets having obsolete radars and missiles, you lost the war to Cuba's teenage MiG-23 pilots and after the little boys shot down SAAF pilots, your air force retreated to park all jets inside hanger on the air base grounds.

You want to boast about an air war you lost to Cuban kid pilots that had zero war experience
.

Why do you get so emotional?

Is it because Nigeria has never ever fought an air war against jets?

Because no Nigerian pilot has ever shot down an enemy plane?

agaugust:
Ethiopia and Eritrea fired BVR missiles on each others jet fighters and shot themselves down !

Has China and Japan fired anti-ship missile on each other?
.

You said that the threat of naval war was enough.

When did Ethiopia and Eriteria fire BVR's?

agaugust:
Nope, you are the one quoting German embassy, so show us the official press release from German embassy itself.

Defenceweb Magazine is NOT = German Embassy Public Information Department.

Burden of proof is on your coconut head
.

Nope.

You used a simple newspaper artical to say that it was us.

Well now, another news article says it was the Germans, and cites the German Embassy as confirming it.

Burden of proof is now on you - find a source citing a member of SAN who says it was us.

agaugust:
Post the German embassy press release for us to confirm.

This matter is still on
.

We dont have to do anything anymore.

As my legal friends would say "the burden of proof now rests on your shoulders"

agaugust:
The blame still hangs on both navies until both navies make official publications to conclude who was shooting.

Defenceweb is NOT a reliable source, it's a mere news media organization with no responsibility for errors coming from it's journalists/sources/informants.

I don't trust private news media when a matter is controversial.

I don't swallow everything news media write on controversial matters.

The German embassy said it was them.

DefenceWeb is an online free source that relies on advertisments from arms manufacturers. If they publish false information they lose advertisments.

If they say the embassy said it, then the embassy said it.

Sorry for you, but you went off half cocked. We warned you to wait, but you were to eager to score cheap points.

agaugust:
Show us official report from German navy NOT South African defenceweb private news magazine.
.

Show us an official report from the South African navy, not private news magizines

agaugust:
BBC and CNN have posted many lies about Nigerian army on Boko Haram war many times, have they lost credibility?

News media can always claim that another source feeds them with wrong information and they may not even apologize.

The Germans may not be interested in trading allegations about who fired wrongly, it's South Africa now struggling to refute what your own country's newspapers said and your own citizens blamed the SANDF Frigate for the incident.

We need official publication from German navy itself to confirm, or else it's your word against theirs and still a trade of allegations and blame
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Nowhere has the SAN once said it was them.

The German Embassy expressly said it was them.

This is over.

rka1:
Gosh! This navy shooting, or lack of, really riled the Southies on this forum. It is like they have been searching for days in order to dump the blame on the Germans

no searching needed

The clarification popped up on Defenceweb as I expected it would.

What allot of the armchair generals in this forum fail to realize is that a cold-bore (guns arent sighted and the targeting computer cannot take atmospheric effects into account when formulating a firing solution) salvo of just 3 rounds fired at a vessel with such a small radar signature landing that close is good gunnery.

The 76mm Otomalara gun is capable of 85 round per minute, once they had seen the shots go astray the rounds would have been walked onto target, either by the targeting computer or manually by the gunner.

jln115:
Post an Official SAN source were it claims it was us!

This sentence kills his argument

agaugust:
You posted a German newpaper that quoted a German private blog.

Post us a source from the official German navy
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Sources:

1. German Publication
2. German Embassay

Its rock solid 100% confirmed.

Sorry for you - we tried to warn you, but your obsession with South Africa is too strong, you had to shoot your mouth off.

Your humiliation is no-ones fault but your own.

agaugust:
The source is actually defenceweb.....NOT German embassy official message line, the story is on defenceweb and quoted no single German embassy official or press release.

Show us a German embassy official publication.

South African military issues always get wrapped up in controversy, you never come clean with facts and proof
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no, the source is the German Embassy

DefenceWeb is the media outlet.

Game over, you shot too early now you have egg on your shoes.

agaugust:
Invaders from Zimbabwe and Mozambique defeated SANDF inside your Kruger Park homeland in the Rhino poaching war....which SANDF lost.

Botswana to the rescue !

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/feb/13/rhinos-south-africa-botswana-anti-poaching-drive
.

Citations have shown that:

- SANDF is not responsible for internal policing or Anti-poaching operations
- SANDF only provides support against cross border poaching
- Since the SANDF has deployed cross border poaching has declined dramatically

agaugust:
[size=20pt]

Can we get a source from German navy to confirm this report?

It remains a one sided allegation until the accused admits guilt. Fair justice.

For now, both sides are trading blames
.[/size]

[size=20pt]German Embassy made the statement. [/size]

The Germans clearly said it was them.

agaugust:
Ethiopia and Eritrea just fought a year 2000 air to air war with BVR missiles.

There is threat of air to air war in Ukraine today as NATO jets fly along Russian borders and Russian lonjg range jet bombers fly around North American borders and shadow 'intercepted' by NATO jet fighters as at today 2015.

Fact is, no navy vs navy threat has existed in the last 30 years.

Nigerian navy reserves NNS Aradu for such purpose if it happens
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Is today the year 2000?

And so? Now you say a "threat of war" counts?

Ok, the threat of War naval between China and Veitnam, Japan as well as the Philipeans in the contested South China sea. There you have it, potential for a massive Navy v Navy war.

There you go, argument over.

agaugust:
Can you read English language, white man ?

I said :

"NA + NAF + NN have won ALL their wars in modern history from half a century ago !

SANDF has NOT won any war, South Africa has NEVER won any war in it's military history. !"

Half a century ago does NOT include World Wars I and II.

SANDF did NOT exist until 1994. There was NO SANDF existing in World War era.

Nigeria too won her World War I battles against mighty Germany and we won again in World War II against mighty Japan.

However, we are talking modern war here and I said NA + NAF + NN have won ALL their wars in modern history from half a century ago.

In the last 50 years or half a century of modern wars starting with Vietnam war era of jet fighters and missiles, South Africa has NOT won any war.....SADF-SANDF lost every war to Cuba, Seleka rebels, and Rhino poachers

SANDF = FAILURE MAGNETS = CRY BABIES

https://www.annarbor.com/assets_c/2010/06/South%20Africa%20cry-thumb-590x671-44685.jpg
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UDF = SADF = SANDF

You said we have never won a war in our military history - this is wrong

You didnt fight any germans in WW1 and your men were common labourers in WW2

In the last 50 years Nigeria has never fought anyone with jet fighters and missiles.

Really? Last I checked we won all 35 major battles against the Cubans and they ended up agreeing to our demands. That doesnt sound like a loss.

[size=25pt]GERMANS CONFIRM THAT THEY FIRED ON THE FISHING BOAT

The German navy’s frigate FGS Hessen was responsible for accidentally targeting a fishing vessel during Exercise Good Hope last month.

The German embassy said that the captain of the Hessen used practice ammunition rather than live ammunition when his frigate accidentally targeted a ski boat whilst carrying out a live fire exercise on 25 March in southern Cape waters.

The German embassy said five rounds were fired at the boat, landing around 20 metres from their target, after being mistakenly identified by the Hessen’s commander and firing supervisor. After being shot at, Day immediately put on his bright deck lights so that the people on the boat could be seen, and headed west at full speed.

- DefenceWeb

We await a full apology from Nigerians for accusing the SANDF of such actions without any fact or substance to their allegations[/size]

frumentius:
South African Special Forces AFAC, Goma, DRC

MOAR!!!

BlackBaron:
I'm curious about that 'air wing ' line.
Are all the air assests ours then?

When executive outcomes was still operating they would usually buy the equipment themselves and include the cost of the items in the bill.

Assets would usually by handed over to whoever hired them in the end of the operation.... its not like you can put a hind in your handluggage on your flight home

lezz:
We're building still, while you're decaying. Everything your anglo-Dutch built is rotting away at an unprecedented fast pace.

Citations needed.

We have been pumping $8 BILLION a year into infrastructure since 2013
http://www.gov.za/issues/national-infrastructure-plan

New Power Stations:
- Medupi (4800 MW)
- Kusile (4,800 MW)
- Ingula (1,332 MW)

Bringing a total of: 10 932MW of added power to the grid.

Nigerias total production: 6,953 MW

Water:

- 7 new dams and water pipelines

General infastructure:

- 675km of new power-lines
- 140km of new rail-lines
- upgrade and improvement of 21 000 km of roads

This has created over 145 000 jobs.

This is the last time I shall comment on non-military matters. If you wish to discuss politics or infrastructure I recommend you start your own thread.

agaugust:
[size=13pt]

You now live on candles, over one million candles burn every night in South Africa while darkness envelopes your land, electro-darkness

In South Africa, Black Power Means Power Blackouts

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/rolling-power-cuts-spark-fears-for-south-africa-s-economic-future-1.2103150

http://americanfreepress.net/?p=22736

.[/size]

https://www.sapeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/south-african-new-national-anthem-590x585.jpg

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And by 2020 we will have completed two brand new powerstations (both of which are the biggest of their type in the world) that together (just the two of them) will more than equal the entire power output of Nigeria

Current shortages are due to the connection of over 1 million new homes to the power grid

Henry120:
Patches689 has had a complete mental breakdown. The desperado can't come to terms with the ineptitude and incompetence of the SANDF.

What is inept or incompetent about 200 men holding back 3000 for a day and a half and inflicting massive casualties while only suffering light casualties themselves?