₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
Geeee

South African army is just one step ahead of an ordinary police service....Geeeeee
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Maybe if your army were able to deploy quickly and effectivly to stop the violence in the North East Boko Haram would not have grown so powerfull that they would defeat you in over 35 battles and carve out a kingdom the size of belgium.

agaugust:
Your Thales radar will NEVER know the difference between an RM-70 and hundreds of civilian trucks scattered a whole 40 km wide distance from city to city, the Nigerian RM-70 is actually mounted on a civilian truck !!! Fool

You don't know why radar scanning if different from surveillance camera/video ? Half Illiterate

I said the enemy anti-aircraft missiles and air force jets will shööt down ALL your airborne surveillance and targeting aircraft, you keep talking as if the enemy is a group of armed robbers fighting a conventional war, are you mäd ?

Tanzania has rocket artillery with 100 km range, so when South Africa wants to fight Tanzania, your SANDF will shift backwards to 100 km safe distance and start firing your 40 km range rockets against Tanzanian army that is 100 km away with more than double rocket range superiority over South Africa?

You assume that real war is a computer video game and all the armies agree on staying far away completely beyond range and reach of enemy artillery? If that is the way war is fought, all rifles, tanks, APC, machine guns, will be cancelled from all army arsenals worldwide.

I really don't blame you, South African army chief of staff read personnel management/human resources, and got AK-47 warfare training from Zimbabwe, which got training from Nigeria, then you his country man thinks about war/battle field reality like customs and immigration officers
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Why are we talking about Tanzania?

Thales radar is not the only way we can and will detect targets; scouts, spotters, Recon flights, drones, satellite surveillance, communications intercepts, prisoner interrogations etc

If you dont understand indirect fire or the placement of artillery in battle or the role of artillery in battle, then that is your problem not mine.

Your argument is beyond stu.pid.

agaugust:
Only ground cameras can do a clear job, but they do NOT have a 40 km range, most are below 10 km.

You will need to close up to enemy artillery and engage.

.

No.

The spotter needs to be close up

The guns sit safely behind the front lines.

He then uses this thing called a RADIO or this other thing called a DATA-LINK to transmit data back to the guns so they know what to shoot at

agaugust:
All your air borne observation will be sh.ot down by Nigerian air defence and air force jets.

Ground radar CANNOT distinguish between other metals, vehicles, civilian equipment, and industrial machinery/vehicles, radar just picks up every big metal thing inside a city, you are trying to radar scan a 40 km distance and hundreds of metal things will be appearing on your screen because you are radar scanning from city to city.....FAIL !

Only ground cameras can do a clear job, but they do NOT have a 40 km range, most are below 10 km.

You will need to close up to enemy artillery and engage.

At 40 km distance, you identify NOTHING !

Why did Cuban army and SADF use 2 km range weapons on each other? The battle gets close up in real war.

Why was Boko Haram getting to the perimeter fence of Nigerian Bofors artillery in Konduga? The battle becomes close contact in real war.

SANDF has ZERO real war experience in over 20 year, so you will NEVER know how war is fought in real life, even your SANDF rag tag rebel ANC freedom fighter army chief of staff can be lectured by Shekau on real life combat
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1. So what? You asked how we would do it. I told you. Stop moving the goalposts.
2. The Thales system is intelligent enough to distinguish between people, vehicles, boats etc. If you are using rocket artillery for saturation fire then the battle has moved far beyond the point of caring about collateral damage.
3. Forward operators, jets, drones, ground search radar, pre-registered targets etc there are many ways and artillery has been engaging targets up to 40km away since the 1940's
4. Yes, they used 2km weapons. They also used 20km weapons and we used 50km weapons.
5. Boko Haram got that close because your Commanders were incompetant and placed their guns in a location where they were at risk. They were also placed in that position due to the pathetic short range of your guns.


Are you seriously saying that its impossible for guns to engage at 40km distance? This is beyond pathetic. This is also beyond responding to.

agaugust:
They actually do, artillery moves along with infantry to front line.

99.99% of SANDF artillery forces have ZERO war experience today, South African artillery officers will soon pay cash and beg to be trained under Nigerian army artillery corps and school in Kachia city, Kaduna state ....
.

Wait.

Just wait.

You are saying artillery is used on the front line? With the infantry? Not behind the front lines?

agaugust:
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Nope, we did it many times !

1. Nigerian army and Biafran army artillery officers with same British army artillery training, exchanged heavy artillery fires during the Biafran war and that was a conventional war, biggest in Africa's modern history.

2. Nigerian army and NPLF exchanged artillery fires in Liberian war, Ghaddafi supplied NPLF with his howitzer artillery

3. Boko Haram had howitzer artiilery, both towed and mobile and they exchanged artiilery fire with Nigerian army this year 2015.

4. The current South African army has NOT fired one single artillery shell in war since over 20 years ago, and your current SANDF chief of army staff is an army General rank with far less combat experience than Shekau the illiterate terrorist.

5. SANDF = Rag Tag Army under leadership of an ex-rebel man with ZERO experience of conventional war

6. SANDF is under the command of a Rag Tag army chief of staff who is actually a rebel trained by Zimbabwe for freedom fighting with only AK-47 rifle as his weapon of skill, Shekau is better than him 100 times


PHOTOS 1 & 2 : BOKO HARAM'S MOBILE ARTILLERY LIKELY FROM LIBYA'S BLACK MARKET

PHOTO 3 : NIGERIA, BEST ARTILLERY GUNNERS IN AFRICA
.[/size]

1. Biafran army had allmost no artillery and was not a well equipped or well organized formation
2. Again, poorly armed rebels with no massed artillery and MRSL systems
3. Again, poorly armed rebels with no massed artillery and MRLS systems
4. Multiple current members of the SANDF served in that war and fired their weapons in anger, while the lessons learnt in that war have been passed on from soldier to soldier in training
5. General Sholly Shoke completed a Brigade Commanders Course in the USSR and was again re-trained with all former members of the Liberation Movement when he was integrated into the SANDF
6. Brigadier General Deon Holtzhausen is the commander of the SANDF Artillery Corps and he served in the Border war

Nigeria has fought no modern conventional war
South Africa was involved in the biggest artillery duel Africa has seen since WW2

Who is more likely to know what they are doing?

agaugust:
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I don't blame you, SANDF has not fired a single artillery or rocket launcher in war since over 20 years ago, and your current army chief of staff is a former local rag tag rebel freedom fighter trained in 1970 to use only AK-47 rifle, even Shekau is more combat experienced than South Africa's most senior army General and chief of army staff today, SANDF is commanded by a rag tag rebel chief of staff in 2014 with zero experience of conventional war, even Shekau is better experienced in war

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Nigeria has never fired artillery or rockets at an enemy who can effectively fire back - during the border war we were engaged in the biggest artillery duel africa has seen since WW2

You have never fought a conventional enemy or a properly armed enemy.

You have zero conventional warfighting experience.

agaugust:
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By the way, who told you that armies always fight a 40 km distance away from each other?

What kind of war is that dude?

Will infantry rifles and tanks or APCs be firing at each other separated by a law of 40 km away?

Are you siick? Do you know that 40 km can be up to the distance of two different cities or three towns apart?

Were South African and Cuban armies standing 40 km distance separated apart when their rifle men and tanks were killing each other in Angolan bush war?

What if the war zone itself is a town with just 15 km land mass from end to end? How will you stay 40 km away and fire rocket?

Now fool, how does your Bateluer rocket launcher sit 40 km away from the enemy and see the same enemy targets, are you w.itches and w.izards with 3rd eye that sees people and vehicles from 40 km distance away?


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Hahaha, I see that you have reached new levels of in.sanity by my startling revelations of your brand new yet obsolete hardware!!

Do you think MRLS and artillery systems sit on the frontline?

They sit behind the frontline and engage the enemy!

Our system can safely engage your frontline and your artillery/MRLS whilst yours cannot do the same.

Spotting can be done with the Thales systems and Ratel Fire-observation platform, Vulture Drones, Oryx, A109, Gripen, Hawks and transmitted to the guns via datalink. Or they can be called in by forward observers by radio. You know, the same way all artillery is used

Mr military researcher thinks that artillery and MRLS systems sit in the frontline trenches with the troops

agaugust:
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Bwahahahaha

This @Patches guy is really hilarious !

You think NATO member Czech republic is using year 1971 version of RM-70 rocket launcher?

Nigeria bought the weapon from a NATO army in 2014, Czech army.

Who is the fool that will be a major NATO weapons manufacturer that will equip it's army with obsolete 1972 MRLS in 2014 ?

I did NOT say Nigeria bought the Modular type that fires only 6 bigger rockets according to your photo, I said Nigeria bought the 80 rocket version that uses both 122 mm and 227 mm rockets interchangeably on the same vehicle. That is modular in English language, not RM-70 MODULAR factory designation.

Modular in English means you can change parts of the equipment and re-configure it at will, and with ease.

Nigeria bought Czech army's NATO standard RM-70 rocket launcher, modernized and upgraded type with new targeting systems and fire control, plus modular capability to use both 122 mm and 227 mm rockets interchangeably.

The Czechoslovakia owned RM-70 units were split between Czech and Slovakia when the two countries separated, and in 1993, both nations upgraded and modified their RM-70 weapons...

[b] "With the peaceful break up of Czechoslovakia into the Czech Republic and Slovakia in 1993, the existing vehicles were split between both countries and have received various modifications/upgrades."

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Hahaha you have proceeded to lose your mind!! I can hear the tears hitting your keyboard as you type out this response!!

Your version is the standard RM-70 with 20km range.

The new RM-70 is only in use in Slovakia and only has 28 122mm missiles or 6 227mm missiles.

RM-70 Modular upgrade of the basic RM-70. Vehicle an interchangeable rocket pod and is capable to launch either 28 122-mm Grad rockets or 6 227-mm M270 MLRS rockets. Slovakia ordered upgrade of 26 vehicles to the RM-70 Modular standard. First systems were delivered in 2005;
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/rm_70.htm

You dont have this, you have the obsolete 1970's RM-70 with ancient fire control and pathetic 20km range. You yourself admit you have the version with 40 tubes, not 28!!

Pic 1, Nigerian RM-70
Pic 2 onwards: Modern RM-70

Do they look the same?

NO!!

Case closed.

Cry more.

agaugust:
Case Open !

SANDF Bateluer is armoured for crew cabin, but see the old thing cranking up and falling apart like a rebel force equipment !

The armour protection is therefore compromised, structural integrity is doubtful with all the metal pieces falling apart like that !


1. Nigeria bought RM-70 Rocket launcher in 2014.....NOT 1971....Nobody in Nigeria's class will buy a 1971 grade equipment in 2014.

2. RM-70 has year 2005 version fully upgraded

"RM-70/85M - Modernised vehicle with new fire control and navigation equipment, can use a new type of rocket with a range of 36 km. Slovakia has ordered 50 upgrade packages.

RM-70 Modular - In December 2000, the Slovak Ministry of Defense and Delta Defence started the RM-70 Modular German-Slovak modernization project. RM-70 Modular allows this artillery system to launch either twenty-eight 122mm rockets, or six 227mm rockets as used on the M270 MLRS. This way the system became fully NATO interoperable. The truck cabin is entirely armored. The Slovak Republic signed for 26 upgraded artillery systems with the first one delivered on May 20, 2005. RM-70 Modular is being offered as an upgrade for RM-70 owners ."

3. RM-70 rockets vary in size from 122 mm to 227 mm....that is almost double the size of SANDF 127 mm rocket.

4. RM-70 is a modular equipment, and is NATO standard.

5. RM-70 has both 20 km range and 36 km range rockets types

6. RM-70 armour includes the frontal driver screen steel plates, the SANDF Bateluer is all glass shield and driver is exposed to attack.

7. RM-70 has double payload of 80 rockets that SANDF can only dream of while they hallucinate.

8. RM-70 is super mobile in heavy muddy terrain as an 8 X 8 wheeler, while the Southie Bateleur runs on on 6 tyres with poor off road traction.

9. RM-70 is far superior to Bateluer of the SANDF, case proved !

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/rm_70.htm

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/rm_70_modular.htm






South African rag-tag Bateleur rocket artillery always runs away from battle after firing all rockets

....but it CANNOT escape from Nigeria's RM-70 that has double load and fires second round of 40 extra rockets without waiting for reload, it carries automatic double firepower.

SANDF rocket artillery gets killed while running away trying to find a safe area to reload.

Cranky Crappy Rickety Rackety South African Rag Tag army ancient rocket artillery is 100% Obsolete


"The Bateleur is reloaded manually. Reload rockets are carried in escorting truck. Reloading usually takes place away from firing position, to avoid counter-battery fire." http://www.military-today.com/artillery/bateleur.htm


PHOTO: SANDF rag tag rebel ancient rocket artillery...manual hand reload !

rickety rackety metal junk

.

Falling apart? Where do you get this rubbish from?

Bataleur has better armor and is infact protected against mines - making it better than yours.

Now to answer your questions:

1. O yes you would - your T-72's are second hand. You have to prove that it is a first hand platform.
2. No, that is not how this works. Until you can prove its upgraded it is the basic RM-70
3. No, the standard RM-70 carries only 122mm obsolete Grad rockets.
4. No it is not, and since it was designed and built by the East during the 1970's it is the complete opposit of NATO standard. See the picture for the NATO standard variant... does it look like yours?
5. No, the standard RM-70 has basic 20km range.
6. BPG can provide as much protection as metal. You do realize the glass is armored right? Also, our vehical is mine/ied protected yours is not.
8. Citations needed - what evidence do you have to support this claim?
9. How is it superior? In what way?

[size=15pt]You say the Bataleur is obsolete? Its a newer design than the RM-70!! Thus according to you the RM-70 is beyond obsolete!![/size]

Bataleur is safe from the RM-70 as it out-ranges it.

Until you prove otherwise you have the basic 1970's designed RM-70.


[size=20pt]See these pictures for what the RM-70 with long ranges and large munitions looks like!! Does it look like yours? NO! Nigeria has the ancient 1970's RM-70[/size]

agaugust:
Nigeria too is already wearing new universal camo for 2015, and battalions have it today...

[size=20pt]Finally you admit: Universal Camouflage is the way of modern Armies.

SANDF has had a universal cammo since the 1990's - allmost 20 years ahead of Nigeria!!

Hahahaha, I have destroyed you!! [/size]

agaugust:
Why not? You speak and make claims for a million men. Burden of proof is on you for a million men.

The Army is back to the drawing board, set to announce a new camouflage pattern and standard uniform to be worn by the more than million members of the active duty and reserve forces.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-hero-project/articles/2013/10/14/the-army-s-5-billion-new-uniform-already-being-replaced.html

You are particularly stupi.d today

agaugust:
Show us the one million American troops wearing the same camo today 2015.

Nigeria too is already wearing new universal camo today, and battalions have it...

You want me to post a photo of one million men?

agaugust:
What is this? Gloves....coloured hand gloves

.

If that helps you sleep at night

agaugust:
Yes, we proved with two photos that those crew wear hand gloves....coloured gloves on their hands
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Its not my problem if you need glasses.

agaugust:
So you have no clear proof of the pilot's real skin colour?

What is this?

agaugust:
Show us 30,000 American troops drawn form different regiments of America, Rangers, Arctic, Mountain, Desert, Urban, 30,000 men and all troops wearing exactly the same camo unifrom.

Nigeria too has thousands of troops in same deployment and all wear exactly the same camo uniform...

More than enough evidence !
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The Universal Camouflage Pattern (UCP), also referred to as ACUPAT (Army Combat Uniform PATtern) or Digital Camouflage ("digicam", is the military camouflage pattern used in the United States Army's Army Combat Uniform.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Camouflage_Pattern

Pic 1: Standard UCP uniform
Pic 2: UCP in the African bush
Pic 3: UCP in Afghanistan
Pic 4: UCP in the Jungles of South East asia

All 1,105,301 US Army soldiers wear either UCP or the OCP pattern that will replace it by 2020.

I know this is hard for you to grasp, but modern armies wear one univeral cammo.

Henry120:
Prove the Pilot is white, present his face.

I've shown you many light skinned Nigerians.

Why must I now present his face?

You want me to drive to Bama and take a photo for you?

Henry120:
You are hurling names at me, yet can't answere these simply questions.

Are they NATO soldiers?

How many cammo can you count?

No need for me to do so.

They are not what we have been arguing about.

Henry120:
This is no battle of bangui, there is no escape for you.

Show us the Pilots facial features? Prove he is indeed white.

Will his face have a different skin color to his hand?

Why cant you show us the face of this light skinned blond haired nigerian pilot?

You can put your head in the ground and scream that it isnt true- but the fact remains, white mercenaries had to come and do what your military could not! Operate your equipment for you

Henry120:
They are soldiers.


Why don't you tell us the number of cammos you see, and if they are Nato soldiers?

Are they normal soldiers?

Are special forces allowed certain freedoms with uniforms and equipment?

Still waiting for you to show us regular NATO troops in different uniforms.

Sorry that I exposed your deceitfull trick, you lack scruples. I am dissapointed in you

Lezzlie:
THAT'S NOT AN ANSWER.

you failed as you cant prove anything..

That is an answer.

You claim there are these magical "white skinned blond haired" Nigerians.

Show them to me.

Henry120:
Show us the Pilots face.

Why? Making ridiculous demands again?

Like when you asked us to drive to bama to take photos of boko haram in the town for you?

We use the evidence we have before us, and the evidence is of blond hair and white skin.

If you are not capable of accepting this then it is not my problem, you are the one who has to live with the fact that your military cannot operate its own requirement and that the "Black Giant" of Africa has been saved by the white man (again)

Henry120:
So, tell us the types of cammo you can see in the photos I uploaded.

I'm not redefining any argument.

Tell me are those normal soldiers?

Yes or no

Henry120:
I've shown you photos of light skin Nigerians. Nigerians can also do what ever hair do they like. Denrele, taribo west, Goldie.... All have at a point carried blond hair.

So please show us the Pilots facial features.

Dont tell us about what they can do to their hair.

Show us this blond haired white skinned nigerian soldiers you speak of.

agaugust:
You are arguing skin colour for pilots and crew that wear all kinds of coloured hand gloves....you must be a dundee

The Hind crew wear gloves some red, some yellow....see photos below.

Good to see you know base your argument on the word I bolded above.... mere probabilities ....you are no longer sure of your own claims after Naijas demolished your argument and asked you to show the pilot's face

Cool....I mean Kooool

PHOTO 1 : GROUND CREW WITH YELLOW HAND GLOVES
PHOTO 2 : AIR CREW, PILOT WITH RED HAND GLOVES
.

Gloves have human nails on them?

Henry120:
Those are soldiers alright, we are right on topic.

So tell us, if those aren't/are NATO soldiers?

Also tell us how many cammos you can count?

Are those the standard soldiers of an NATO army?

You can keep trying to avoid the truth, or your desperate attempts to redefine the argument.

Fact is that your pathetic army has to wear a hodg-podge of gear and unfiroms supplemented by civilian clothing due to the fact that they are poorly supplied.

Lezzlie:
waiting for what?

another opportunity to deny facts and profer your moronic excuses? source has been dropped twice already go figure.

#XENOPHOBICSA

Waiting for your citation.

Henry120:
Those are soldiers alright, we are right on topic.

So tell us, if those aren't/are NATO soldiers?

Also tell us how many cammos you can count?

Are they average soldiers or not?

You can move the goalposts as much as you want.

Fact remains: The average Nigerian soldier wears miss-matched uniforms and has to supplement his gear with civilian clothing

This is the topic of discussion.

Henry120:
The onus is on you to prove he is white, by showing us his facial features.

On a balance of probabilities, within reason and based on the evidence I've provided, the Pilot is a light skinned Nigerian.

I've showed everyone evidence of light skinned Nigerians, why don't you provide facial evidence to prove the individual is caucasian?

You have yet to show us a nigerian with white skin and blond hair.

Henry120:
Boy, you are not very smart.

Please answer these questions,

1. Are the soldiers in those photos NATO soldiers

2. How many cammos can you count?

Thank you.

Have we ever been talking about what operators wear?

Or have we been talking about what soldiers wear?

Henry120:
Petty insults.

Now answer the question, Provide evidence that the Pilot in that image is white. My photos show light skinned Nigerians, same skin as the pilot in that image.

Show us the Pilot's face, prove he is indeed white?

Dont have to.

On a balance of probabilities and within reason he is white.

Show us a picture of this light skinned Nigerian pilot