₦airaland Forum

The scam only exist in a country where poverty and misinformation dominates.

They say if you want to hide information from Africans write it in a book, they will read it to their understanding.

People like D. K Olukoya and the rest cannot voice out in places like the Uk, he will be totally ignored

Gabrielshow24:
Nice write-up but the crux of the matter is that you have admitted that the mind is not the spirit everything else is moot! Mind you, I have stated that the mind is the seat of consciousness every other submission of yours is secondary.

consciousness is physical does not mean we should ignore the spiritual function of the mind which is to believe in Christ

The bible affirms the fact of Jesus coming from the clouds not some fictionalized coming from the mind

in case you are shy to quote out the scripture for clarity

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? AND WITH WHAT BODY DO THEY COME?

First of all, understand that we will come back to this life with a different body immediately after we die.
That is the resurrection.

If you read down the chapter you will get the answer to that question.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

That is, our body will be changed.

Now, if you relate this understanding to the other part of the scripture which is still saying the same thing

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The scripture sound fictional because Paul had spoken it figuratively.
But the interpretation thereof implies the Clouds as heaven, which is God's kingdom in us in the real sense. (Meaning, we are the heaven or clouds in the real sense)
And this God's Kingdom in us ensures that we will resurrect with a new body after we die

With this understanding, it does not necessarily mean that Jesus is coming from the clouds.
It means, Jesus is in us already (Emmanuel) because we are the heaven on earth.

Heaven, as much as it is a spiritual place, resides with you because God, Christ, is in you!

Absolutely

It doesn't negate the fact or dismiss the idea that Heaven exists in some transcendental plane.

it totally negate and contradicts purpose.
I mean, what has transcendental plane has to do on earth if it is not tangible like the human body?

God created man to live on Earth for a purpose, and that purpose still stand from the beginning which is to replenish this earth

While it's literal, it also fails miserably in other areas? Man is a physical being, a physical being that warrants a physical mind👀. This being also has a spirit that helps interact with God, who is to be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth. It's obvious that while faith resides in the mind(physical), it doesn't negate the fact that spirit and mind are two different concepts! Not one and the same but they overlap in agreement!

Your admission already negates your subsequent exemplifications.

The point is, spirit and mind are two separate entity from the stand point of the physical, how we view it as humans. But that is not the case with God who is a spirit.

With God, both the spirit and the mind are the same.
The mind is what God sees as the soul because it is the mind that believes in Christ for eternal life which is the spirit of God.
Though the body dies off and decompose (corruption) the mind lives forever and is constantly recycled with a change of body without physical consciousness

anonimi:
How did Europeans work out their salvation from religious shackles through enlightenment?

They develop their education sector. Something Africans are yet to do

How do we do similar work to liberate ourselves

invest in education

I don't know what people are still doing in churches in Africa. Anytime you find yourself in church you sell your birth-right and dignity to pastors for nothing.

John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem(Church building or Temple), worship the Father.

If you stay in your house and worship your God quietly who will exploit you with tithing?

In the Uk, nobody send church.
Infact, pastors are begging people to come!

Pastors are so poor in the Uk, yet they are self sufficient.
But in Nigeria in the name of fear of poverty, one pastor go dey fly private jet, buy exotic cars and show up with flamboyant lifestyle, yet they are not working.

They will never be self sufficient

All our industries in Alausa have closed down, and their warehouses have been converted to churches.
Very faulty societal ideology

Gabrielshow24:
This earth isn't your heaven. You can make it be like heaven but you will still be gathered unto God in heaven!

Likewise when you die, you are taken elsewhere and not back to the earth🤨.

good!
It's easy to say it with the mouth right?
But where are the scriptures to support it?

God also doesn't exist only in our spirits. We use our spirits to interact with him. There's a difference! What is spiritual doesn't exist solely in the mind. It's an hyperspace that only spirits can interact with, with the mind being the seat of consciousness!

The word HYPERSPACE is fictional and not real.

Finally, the mind is not the same as the spirit. There are two different things.

Definitely you are right that they are not the same. But that notwithstanding, your spirit is in your mind and this is how it applies.

You have heard the word FAITH?
What is Faith? Faith is simply your religion.

Your religion is a function of your mind.
So when the bible talks about God's kingdom which is heaven,it simply referred to your Christian religion which is your Faith in Christ that exist in your mind.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Show me anywhere else in the bible that was referred to as God's kingdom or heaven order than your Faith in Christ, you will never see

Your zeal to equate the spirit with the mind is unfounded and borderline reaching!

When you say someone is your spiritual father, for example pastor Enoch Adeboye of rccg, it doesn't mean that Adeboye is a spirit.
It means you share the same mind with Adeboye in religion.

I always discredit this idea among Africans that things do happen mysteriously.
The mentality originated from the fear of traditional juju and fictions.

There is nothing that happens mysteriously or in fiction.
Everything, every events you see around can be well explained.

Also, we shall all see God coming from the clouds of heaven this negates your analogies!

no! Totally wrong

This is fiction now!
If you see human being dey fly for clouds one day you no go run?

You see, that's why i carefully use the word LITERALLY

https://www.nairaland.com/8468151/literally-heaven-only-exist-minds

Please have the literal understanding of the scripture you quoted

Gabrielshow24:
In what way, did I hint at a physical mansion?

In other words, you have agreed that the mansion is spiritual?

Your previous sentiment negated the spiritual existence of heaven and hell.

No!

It only shows that what is spiritual only exist in the mind.

Put it this way, we don't see God because God is a spirit, right?
This tells you that you will never see God walking on the street or flying in the air or somewhere outer space. But God only exist in us.
In our spirit.

An atheist who doesn't believe in the existence of God does not have God in his mind or spirit. So to him God truly do not exist because he will never see God flying in the air

You posit that these are solely in the mind, along with the mansions.

Even if mansions truly exist in the mind or spirit rhelm, it is insignificant to the real world

Or are you equating the mind to spiritual conformities? 🤔

that is exactly the point I'm making

The bible is very clear on this. There is a place called heaven!

Whatever the place is, by virture of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who has established the new covenant and our Christian faith, it does not have any significance to this earth anymore other than the mind of faith in Christ.

Or do you have any scriptures in the bible to disprove this?
Because i have loads scriptures plus real life experiences and situations to prove my point

It also follows that if you die today as a Christian, you are not going anywhere order than this earth.
This earth is your heaven!

Gabrielshow24:
No, the context explains itself but you seem to insist, beforehand, that both heaven and hell are in the mind🤔 along with the mansions😅.

Do you care to explain, how you arrived at such a conclusion?

OK, let's look at the context how it explained itself.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: YE BELIEVE IN GOD, BELIEVE ALSO IN ME

The embolded indicates that we believe with our heart which is our mind

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions...

Even though it's possible that what the disciples thought and expected from Jesus were physical mansions, but today we have come to understand that Jesus wasn't referring to physical mansions. Rather he was referring to a state of our minds were we believe in him to have eternal life. (John 3:16)
Not physical mansions!

Another scripture confirm that we don't die in the real sense.
We continue to live on after our death. (1 Corinthians 15:54-55)

So the plan is for us to have eternal life, not to have mansions.

And come to think of it.
From the beginning, God did not breath in msnsions into Adam to live when he created him.
He breathed in eternal life in him.

If we can have life we can always build mansions for ourselves.
So life is more important than mansions

NO ARGUMENTS WITH MUSLIMS ABOUT JESUS.
EVERYONE ARE ENTITLED TO THEIR FAITHS

Celestialsword:
Elumelu's mom is 97years
Otedola's mom is 103years
Jonathan's mom is 88years
Saraki's mom is 99years
Dangote's mom is 90years

Where are their father's, Long gone in most cases.

Food for thought

Treat yourself well, they will survive without you

Where was their mothers when their fathers were celebrating their 12 years old, 10 years old birthdays in 1914 during the amalgamation era?

They were either new born babies or they were never born yet

MaxInDHouse:
So if your Abel Damina is also deceiving his audience where does that lives you?

Someone said Jesus is God and fearlessly speaks against most of your pastors and you welcomed everything he says as truth now you are saying he knows heaven doesn't exist and he will not declare it publicly yet you want people to believe he's still worthy of trust shey?

Ọmọ i told you from the onset that you don't even know what you're saying!

My guy, learn to say someone is speaking the truth when he is saying the truth and when the same person is deviating from the truth you should also say he is deviating.

Taze Russel wasn't a total liar.
But if you continue to take everything he said as truth because he spoke the truth at some point, then understand that you just have one life to live.

You can't continue allow the lie people have said to damage your own life simply because they once said the truth.

Being spiritually naive has never taken anyone anywhere

MaxInDHouse:
I'm waiting for Abel Damina to declare it publicly first!

You go wait tire!

You want a hunter that set a secret trap to declare where the animal can see the trap?

You are joking

MaxInDHouse:
https://www.nairaland.com/8152846/live-life-heaven-because-there

You said:
"Live your life because there is no heaven"

Go and convince Abel Damina that there is no place called heaven nah.
I'm waiting for you!

He already knows

Do you think that all these pastors don't know the truth?
How many of them are ready to live a miserable life knowing that there is a better life beyond here?
non of them!

You see them driving flashy cars and living big, while their gullible poor church members are wallowing in poverty waiting for a better place called heaven that is beyond the clouds when they die

Tell me, is that not survival of the fittest?

Gabrielshow24:
👀I think you are very similar to him🤔!

The two of you have skewed perceptions

there is something skewed about the conventional doctrines which was imported from Europe to Africa by European missionaries who first brought Christianity to Africa. Such doctrines or beliefs are not applicable in Europe anymore because people are becoming knowledgeable, yet we are used to these skewed doctrines in Africa till today, and it is giving us serious problem here in our churches especially the Pentecostal churches. And that is what i seek to redress.

It seems to me that Jw had tried to redress the doctrinal problem in the US a century ago, but committed blunder along the line thereby putting themselves into perpetual confusion and cannot trace their errors back to a point where they had originally sensed accuracy.

I wouldn't blame them, it's not easy to understand bible.

one can't fathom the idea of hell; the other believes "many mansions, along with heaven and hell are in our minds" 🤦🏾‍♂️... You see, on the tree of scriptural absurdity...You two are not too far apart, only that one had a cult following 🤔!

Let's get this straight, are you saying that Jesus was referring to physical mansions?

You know, that's what jw believe too, that it is physical mansion.
And conventional religion share this belief too

MaxInDHouse:
Agree with Abel Damina on the topic of heaven before coming to JWs!

Abel damina have a better chance to understand what heaven is, because he is well grounded with scriptures!

But jw?
You people are lost

MightySparrow:
Abel Damina may not know that Jehovah's witnesses have rejected Charles Taze Russell as their leader. They have switched their allegiance to Rutherford, the Discreet Slave. They accused Russell of being influenced by church doctrines.

The organization was renamed by the second founder to what they bear now.

Yet, the organization is still a carry over of Taze Russel's illusory philosophy

MaxInDHouse:
Why don't you people have any conscience at all?

how is Jesus God makes anyone lack conscience?

You want to argue about Jesus being God or not yet you say heaven doesn't exist when the same Jesus talked extensively about heaven. Matthew 6:19-21; John 14:1-3

Heaven only exist in our minds

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

In simple terms Jesus put it this way, MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD

Obviously, it only exist in our minds

Is that too difficult to understand?

By the way, how will you possibly understand the concept of heaven when you have been brainwashed of a purported paradise on earth by the person called Charles Taze Russell who contradictively said that the earth was going to experience Amagedon and end in 1914 ?
https://www.nairaland.com/8468151/literally-heaven-only-exist-minds

Sometimes it's good to know that most people like you are fake yet pretending.

When people like you cannot understand simple concepts of the bible, you look for someone else to blame for your inadequacy and tag the person fake, simply because you cannot understand.

I ask you a very simple question, what is heaven?

MaxInDHouse:
You don't even know what you are saying but that aside please quote where Jesus said he is GOD or where he asked anyone to WORSHIP him?

So, all the scriptures quoted by the pastor in the video in support of the fact Jesus is God, is it that you deliberately refuse to see it?

That's why jw remains scam

MaxInDHouse:
Charles Taze Russell that's sitting right beside Jesus Christ in heaven.
Ọmọ learn the truth and stop deceiving yourself!

The same Jesus that he said he is not God?

Now tell me, do you worship Jesus or you mere honour him?

Obviously, Charles Russel was a mentally derailed fellow who was cut-off from reality and infest thousands of people with his faulty assumptions

According to wikipedia, two UN secretaries-general, the presidents of the European Council and European Commission, two French presidents, four United States presidents, and four UK prime ministers attended the funeral service of Nelson Mandela.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dignitaries_at_the_memorial_service_of_Nelson_Mandela

But meanwhile, these were the dignitaries who could not attend Buhari's burial but send condolences according to channels.

1. Us missions in Nigeria (I'm not sure Donald Trump is aware of this)
2. Chinese Embassy in Nigeria

All in Nigeria

https://www.channelstv.com/2025/07/13/us-mission-chinese-embassy-statesmen-others-pay-tribute-to-buhari/

The only thing that he did wrong was to gather literatures that was distributed to Deeper life members from his former church and send them back to his former church thereby preventing deeper life members from reading them.

Is that right?

So, let's assume that it was Jehovah witnesses that came into deeper life to distribute their awake literatures, he will gather the literatures and return them back to Jw?

So, people don't have the right to read whatever they want to read anymore?

Truvelisback:
Good day, fellas. I have been pondering on this for sometime now. Is Education truly the key to success in Nigeria? Most of us grew up hoping that after graduating from tertiary instutions, everything would fall in place but after schooling, reverse was the case.

First of all, define success?

The so-called marriage committee did according to his exact instructions to waste the lives of many young women into perpetual spinsterhood over the years in the name of religion.

It is too late to try to exonerate himself

Meaning, they are all virgins?
I don't get what you are saying

Gabrielshow24:
Literally? 👀In Your mind? I guess the "many mansions" are also in your mind😂😂😂

So, all you want is free mansion that you didn't work for?

You go wait tire not knowing you are being scammed in the mind

Let me explain to you how you sound when you say you are waiting for heaven

I remember back then when i was still in a boarding school in my Jss classes, a hungry senior student asked us to do Abrakabraka!
Light up four candles around a cover bottle and speak to it for two hours saying give me N10,000 (N10,000 was big money at that time) and we will see N10,000 under the cover bottle. We tried this thing for two hours and nothing came up.
He then suggested that we should contribute N50 each,that he will use the money to consult the spiritual grand master that will make the N10,000 appear under the cover bottle. About five of us who were junior students in the hostel contributed the money. Then he asked us to light up more candles around the cover bottle and continue the abrakabraka till the next morning which we did, and nothing happened.
By the time we had gone to inform the hungry senior the following morning that nothing is yet to happen he has used our money to buy bread and tea

To worship in spirit and in truth (that is, to be a believer in the heart without gathering or virtuals) is far better than all these.

Because it prevent susceptibilities

Sirchiboy:
Parenthood is responsibilty not an avenue to breed kids in the hope of making them your retirement plan.
This is very common in African culture where parents make their kids their life time retirement.
Every parents should plan for their future retirement.
You can decide to support them once in a while but not a most it is your reponsiblity to cater for them in their old age.

This your post does not follow in Africa where poverty dominates

CreatedtwoRule:
You are right brother: but I think you should also know that prosperity doesn't just end at accumulating wealth and enviable status. Overall it is being rich towards God and the material one is just an offshoot. The terms of prosperity in this world is not the same as in Christianity.

When we mean prosperity in this context, we are referring to a state where one isn't poor and cannot afford the basic things of life.

There are several factors that contribute to poverty among which are the individuals mind-set, family background and societal values.

All these have nothing to do with God or Satan

ask4bk:
This one must be pentecostal.

Catholics and Orthodox Protestants all inclusive.
What do you need them for?
Absolutely nothing but some social gain and nothing more. Unless you don't know what you are doing in religion.

See how you just summarised church as a place for financial connections

before nko?

Big shameee.

is there anything shameful about belonging to a family that will always assist you whenever you are in need?

Pentecostal churches are the biggest virus to Christianity.

lies!
Catholics first started deception! That was how Protestants protested and broke away.
Check your history

Christ has been eliminated from the centre and replaced with material Prosperity.

Who did the elimination, you?

You must be joking!

No one can eliminate Christ from the church.

You said anyone who believes in him will be saved,

ofcourse yes!

instead same you changed the belief to tithe - whoever pays tithe will be saved.

tithe?
Belief?
There is no connection between the two

Its all about money and prosperity and nothing again about Christ.

That's why people don't find Christ again in churches.

The bottom-line is, everyone in church already have Christ and whatever they practice in church cannot change that

Bluntemperor:
STOP MISLEADING THE PEOPLE!
•IS IT NOT WRITTEN IN THE SCRIPTURE (Bible) YOU CARRIED - 'DON'T FORSAKE THE ASSEMBLY OF THE BRETHREN '

And if you forsake the assembly what will happen?

Absolutely nothing!

SO,WHY ARE SOME OF YOU SAYING ' BUILD YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD' AND HOW DO INDIVIDUALS - WHO DON'T HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SCRIPTURE BUILD RELATIONSHIPS WITH GOD

that's why i say you must have something you are benefiting in church that will make you keep going. Otherwise, going is useless!

If building your relationship with God and knowing the bible is what you will benefit in going to church, then why not?
You just have to keep going until you learn

- 1•BY KNOWING / Seeking The Face Of GOD AND ACCEPTING CHRIST AS LORD AND SAVIOUR
2- AND BY BEING BORN AGAIN And
3- REPENTANCE FROM SIN- And Forsaking the SIN-For you CANNOT do ALL the above by yourself Alone - without going to Church and feed with the Word Of God on Timely Basis

Lies!

You can always take decision by yourself and repent of your sins without church.

It also very possible to read your bible on your one and understand it perfectly more than your pastors such as Adeboye, Oyedepo, etc

(Heb6v12).
Heb(10v31)-For it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

To fear God don't mean you should live in fear!

To fear God simply means, humble yourself and learn to do what is right all the time