₦airaland Forum

Originakalokalo:
I get your points... You asked me to give you a place where the Pharisee acted against the law...

And from this reply of yours, You are trying to justify the Pharisee.. despite these statements from Jesus:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them."
(Luke 11: 44)


But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God:
these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. "
(Luke 11: 42)


They could pay tithes of anything... but they omit weightier matters of LAW, MERCY, FAITH AND LOVE...
They were not righteous, they were not justified.

So, when Jesus said that unless our righteousness is more than that of a Pharisee, we will not enter the kingdom of God..

He is talking about professing love for him and not doing his will...

God bless you.

I wasn't trying to justify them. The law justified them.

Paul kept the law when he persecuted the church. He was so zealous in keeping the law.

Phil 3:6; I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault.
The law justified his acts.


He obeyed the law without fault yet he still counted it as loss to Christ.
Verse 7; But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.

Paul was a pharisee before his conversion. He considered the righteousness of the law garbage. The only righteousness God wants from us is that of faith in Jesus.

God is Life, no death in Him.
God is Love, no hate in Him.
God is Light, no darkness in Him.
God is Good, no evil in Him.
God is Faithful, no failing to be who He is.
God is Gracious, no lack of mercy in Him.
God is seen clearly in Christ. No shadows and no stammering.
My Seven most emphatic Creeds from the Bible that summarizes the true nature of God-Pastor Alvin Eghosa

THESE ARE THE LAST DAYS.

This phrase has been used to scare many believers and birth fear of that defeated thing called the devil even in believers. Movies and videos have been made from it and the original meaning seems to have been lost.

When we say "these are the last days", we do not mean these are the days of wars, famine, strange acts and corrupt behavior. All these have been in existence from time immemorial. E.g: homosexuality existed already in Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 19:5). The acts of the devil are not new; it is not an intelligent being.

When we say "these are the last days", we mean that these are the Days of Christ; the Days of Forgiveness of sins; the Days where the knowledge of the glory of God in the Face of Jesus permeates the earth. These are the days when nothing else can be added to what God has already done in Christ. He has spoken once and for all time.

Heb 1:2 shows us that these are the days of the speakings of Christ:
"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"
Act 2:17 shows the same thing as the days of the pouring out of the Spirit :
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
Even 2Ti 3:1
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts"
and 2 Pet. 3:3
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come"
which are widely used to propagate the theory of the last days as scary times was used by the Apostles Paul and Peter respectively to describe the persecution and sway from sound doctrine that one might encounter in the preaching of the Gospel. This is also not something new, as from the Book of Acts we already see this in display.
Next time when you hear that these are the last days, rejoice for these are the days when Christ and all He has done is revealed in all the earth. Dance in ecstasy for the privilege to be alive in these Days of the redemptive work of the Son.

Not an original writing.

Originakalokalo:
You asked me to show you one instance where the Pharisee break the law...

I will give you 7.

1. This is a statement from the Pharisee...

(John 11 )
------------
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.

48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.


see verse 53:

" Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death."
(John 11: 53)


The idea to kill Jesus is born out of the fact that he did many miracles and PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IN HIM....


Don't forget that they knew that NO ONE could do those miracles except God is with him.

That is envy, and hypocrisy.

2. Jesus healed a man born blind..The man told them this:

"If this man were not from God, he could do nothing


This is the reply of the Pharisees:

."9:34To this they replied, "You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!" And they threw him out.


3. Look at Nicodemus's statement to the Pharisees...

(John 7 )
------------
51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?

If they know the law, why not practice it?

4. A woman was caught in adultery... and they brought the man to Jesus to tempt him...

If the woman was caught in the ACT of adultery.. WHERE WAS THE MAN?

What does their law say about anyone caught in adultery?

5. " And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day;

that they might find an accusation against him."
(Luke 6: 7)


This was when Jesus was about to heal a man with withered hand...

Does the law of Moses oppose healing on sabath day? all what they were looking for was ACCUSATIONS.

6 This is Jesus to the Pharisee

" But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God:

these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. "
(Luke 11: 42)

They could pay tithes of anything... but they omit weightier matters of LAW, MERCY, FAITH AND LOVE...

who omits any of these and still claim righteousness?

7. This is another character of the Pharisee from THE CREATOR HIMSELF:

" Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them."
(Luke 11: 44)


I am surprised that you could ask this question.

if you claim that the Pharisee obeyed the law with all these,

Then you call Jesus statement to question

and call the Alpha and Omega a liar.


Beware of what you say. Unknowingly, you may err.

Jesus is Lord.

You still don't get it do you?

The pharisees brought a woman to Jesus to tempt him. The law clearly states that anyone caught in adultery was to be put to death. The woman was caught in the very act of adultery and the law demands her death. The fact they didn't bring the
man too was wrong but it still doesn't changes the fact that the woman was to die according to the law.

Now they brought only the woman. Their intent was to put him in a corner. If he had said they should leave her, the Pharisee would have said he was disobeying the law. They'd probably had showed him the exact scripture that says the woman was to be put to death. On the other hand if Jesus had said the woman was to die, they'd have jumped up and clap their hands. They'd have said Jesus didn't practice the forgiveness he preaches.. They'd have won.

But the thing that they didn't know was that Jesus was the author of the law and he couldn't be put in a corner by it. So what Jesus did was to make that infamous statement, "let him that is without sin cast the first stone." And guess what happened?it was the oldest that left first. The ones that are supposed to be without sin that left first. Guess why? Cos even though they kept the law they still didn't see themselves as sinless. The fault finding law still found fault with them.

The law forbade the Jews to do any work on Sabbath day. Even insignificant work like gathering manna on Sabbath day was frowned upon by the law.

In Luke 6, Jesus and his disciples went into the cornfields to pluck corns to eat on the sabbath. The pharisees came to accuse Jesus of breaking the law. Jesus didn't just say what he did was lawful. They'd have held is words against him if he did. instead he reminded them of when David ate food that wasn't lawful for him to eat.

In verse 6, Jesus healed a man with a withered hand on a Sabbath day. The Pharisees again accused him of breaking the law. Jesus didn't argue with them on whether he was doing something lawful or not. They'd have held his statement against him. He simply asked them if it was lawful to do good or bad on the Sabbath day. They couldn't answer him.

The pharisees tried to push Jesus to a corner with his statements. They'd have had some points against Jesus if he had answered them directly...


I'm sure you might not get my points. But I'm sure if read well you'll notice I'm trying to make points the obeying the law cannot and will not save you..

You quoted Nicodemus question to the Pharisees. But I tell you, if Nicodemus didn't believe in Jesus he'd have died and he'd have gone to hell even though he wasn't like the rest of the Pharisees. He too needed Jesus to be made perfect. Obeying the law doesn't make one Holy. Only Christ is capable of making one Holy..

Originakalokalo:
If you believe that you will go to heaven after dying on a LovePeddler, simply because you are a child of God,

Then you need to go back to the Bible and start reading from the book of Genesis...

Beware of the doctrines of the devils.

Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

Jesus said that unless our righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees.. we shall not enter into the kingdom of God..

The Pharisees professes to know the law, but they acted against it.

They were hypocrites and no righteousness was found in them.

The only thing they always shouted was THE LAW OF MOSES ..

If You always profess Jesus, and you don't see the reason why you should live the kind of life

he lived,

Then you are a Pharisee...and your righteousness is the same with theirs....You will not enter into the kingdom of God.


Not everyone that call me Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom of God...

they called him Lord, but do iniquity.. They will have no part in him.

The first thing the holy spirit does in the life of man is to make him run from sin...

This is what the law cannot achieve... That is why apostle Paul condemned the law...but anchored Christianity on grace...

grace is the holy spirit, that is given to man, which enables man to do the will of God.

Stop preaching heresies.

Jesus is Lord.

I'm sure you didn't read my post from the beginning to the end.

Can you tell me one instance the pharisee did something that was against the law?

Without holiness no man can see God. What are the requirements for attaining holiness?
Didn't the law condemned fornication and adultery too? Didn't the law condemned immorality? You keep talking about living right, did the law demand wrong living? Didn't the law asked us to give to the poor and needy? Didn't the law asked us to honour our elders? Wasn't the law against idol worship? Why then was the old covenant replaced with the new? Why then was the pharisee still unrighteous even after obeying the law? Why then was Jesus blood still needed to get someone saved?

If you abstain from fornication and immoral acts and you give to the poor and you do not believe in the redemptive power of the blood of Christ, you'd die and make hell.

This is what we preach. We don't preach "believe in Jesus and sin you'll make heaven" as you people claim we do. It is your pride and sin consciousness that make you take our preaching that way.

Without holiness no man can see God. Living right can't and won't make you holy. Believing in Christ remains the only way one can attain holiness. This is what we preach...
Jesus is lord!

rhektor:
Looking up to him does not mean that we would do nothing Jesus himself said that we should "strive to enter because the way is narrow" Luke 13:24. Ponder over this, salvation is free but keeping your salvation is at a price and you can loose it. Denmas lost his own, Judas lost his own too so bro I will compel you to strive strive strive to enter. Why do think Paul was begging the Romans congregation to present their bodies as a living sacrifice in Romans 12:1? Bro looking unto Jesus does not mean you should shouldn't work out your salvation by your own actions it simply means that you should act like Jesus, you should follow hiss steps. Always ask yourself this question before every of your actions "what would Jesus do"
May the peace of the Lord be with you

Salvation being eternal life cannot be lost. If someone could lose eternal life then it wasn't eternal in the first place.

Judas didn't loose his salvation. He wasn't saved in the first placed. The 12 disciples weren't saved prior to Jesus death because Jesus had not yet shed his blood which was the requirement for salvation.

Denmas fell into sin didn't mean he lost his salvation. Not one verse in the Bible ever tells us that salvation could be lost.

rhektor:
Your assertion here appeals to common sense however its not an acceptable explanation for the passages you're trying to wound into your story of once saved forever saved.
For your righteousness to exceed that of the pharisee you must be a doer of the word of God, that is acting, talking and comporting yourself in accordance with the word of God not just that people think that you are doing it but that you really are doing it the right way.
Why would it be the religious leaders that crucified Jesus? Simple, he was always bursting their myths whatever they were hiding from people he made it known he set the record straight people have been holding them in high esteem he came and told the people these pharisees that you have been thinking are doing the right things are only deceiving you they've been doing the wrong things in secrete. I am still waiting for you to talk about those verses I posted earlier even though the question was not directed to you however, since you took it upon yourself to respond to it please do ASAP
Someone even said here that shine your light I put it to the person to tell us how he's going to shone his light?
Would every believer begin to go about with flashlight like Zack Adzee lols ? No
It by how you live your life the see the attributes of God in you

I am waiting for you to tell me how you're not going to conform to the world, how you will show your works of faith, how you work out your salvation with fear and trembling, how you will be perfect as your heavenly father, how you will strive to enter (according to Jesus Luke 13:24) etc the list is just endless

The law (the 10 commandments) was powerless to make us right with God because of our sinful nature (Heb . It isnt to say the law was not perfect. Everything God does is perfect. So is the law. But we just couldn't handle the law because of our flesh was too weak. The law was too fault-finding. We had to keep every commandment to the end. If we break just one, we would be guilty of breaking all of them (James 2:10). Keeping the 10 commandments could look easy to us. Isn't it just to serve God, worship God, not bow to any other gods, not to dishonour your parents, not to murder, commit adultery, or fornication, not to steal, lie, covet our neighbors property etc. It looks easy right? But trust me it isn't. When you think you haven't committed adultery but you look at that pretty girl that just walked past you lustfully, you just committed adultery. When you think you haven't lie but you tell one white lie in the office or you tell a lie to save a friend you just broke the 6th commandment. When you think you honour your parents but you just called Buhari a fool and an idiot, you've dishonored your parents, when you think you've never murdered someone in your entire life but you call your brother a fool, the law will label you guilty of murder. When you think you haven't coveted your neighbor's property but you look at Davido's Lamborghini and you say in your mind "I wish that car is mine", you've just coveted. When you think you've never served any other God but instead of going to church on Sunday you had to be in your workplace, the law finds you guilty of idol worship.
The law deems almost anything you do as a man sin. Obeying the law could never have made us perfect of righteous.

The law was powerless in making the Pharisees righteous hence the statement of Jesus.

The pharisees obeyed the law but Jesus still said our righteousness must exceed theirs to be saved. The righteousness of obeying the law, of good works can never make us holy, righteous or perfect.

So what God did was to make things easy for us was send his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering (the same Heb . So he fulfilled the law for us. So once we believe in him we have kept and fulfilled all the laws of God to the end.


But then you might ask, "perfectbeing, are you now saying that if someone believes in Jesus and he steals or murder someone, are you saying he's still in right standing with God?" You might want to quote Romans 6:1. But let me ask you something first, did you see me write to in anywhere that you should go and steal since you've believed and no longer under the law? Go and steal or kill if you like. You'll know whether the police is your friend or not.
That's not what I'm saying. When you believe your sinful nature is been replaced with the nature of Christ. Romans 6:1 says... Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? What was the reply in vs 2? "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"
Impossible. Believers can no longer live in sin because the nature of sin is dead and buried. But it is still possible for for us believers to fall into sin (not live in sin) sometimes because even though our nature is changed, we still live in this weak body of ours. Our minds still needs to be regenerated. That can only happen when we keep reading and meditating on God's word daily.

Striving for perfection and Holiness isn't possible with good works. Perfection is attained the moment a believer believes in Christ once and forever. Christ is the righteousness of God. And only when you believe in him will you be made holy or righteous or perfect before God once and forever. God doesn't see the believer anymore. He only sees Christ in the believer. And only in Christ is God pleased with. Not good works or morals... Only Christ..

daraj:
verse 11 said such were some of you. This refers to the past before they gave their life to Jesus. But a practicing christian committing adultery is not in the past. Can she be justified for that.I think the provision God made for that is to confess and forsake that sin for her to have mercy and that was the reason she left the marriage.

If Jesus' blood could only atone for past sins then it is not so different from the blood animals used before his death.. They could only cleanse your past sins too.

By the way Jesus died over 2000 years ago, since you claim his blood covers only past sins then it shouldn't be able to cover our sins of today since our sins are future sins.

Since you people tend to assume that this "once saved forever saved" doctrine that we preach is a license to sin, how would you take it if people assume confession of sins is a license to sin. After all, one could just sin and then confess his or her sin and he'd be forgiven.

The reason you people assume such is because of your sin consciousness. You're just too conscious of sin that you throwaway the part of the gospel we preach that says a believer is dead to sin. You only focus on the "sin" part. You keep asking, "are you now saying that..." You throw away the part where we say his sinful nature is done away with. So when he commits sin he is uncomfortable in it. He was comfortable when he steals before he was saved. Now that he's saved he feels uncomfortable cos now he's a new creature. His old self is dead.

I leave you with this question.

Since you claim the "once saved away saved" doctrine is a false gospel giving believers the license to sin, how come Christians who don't believe in such gospel (even preach against it) sin? How come do members of work based salvation churches still sin? What is their license to sin?

Iamdazzle:
You equate excessive fear to anger now

OK but just so you know, there is also a spirit of fear which possesses people, so yeah, a heightened state of fear is akin to possession.
A true Christian must not fear. 2Timothy 1:7 by that scripture you can attest 'there is a spirit of fear' and Sir, it can possess anyone if you allow it.

This is my final reply, tired of explaining thesame thing over and over. A closed mindset helps noone.

Being a believer doesn't mean we have a perfect body. In this weak body we are (believer or not)ted to it's weakness such as pain, fear, hunger, loneliness, anger, lust, depression, sadness.etc. Even Jesus felt pain, hunger, fear, sadness and loneliness on the cross.. But his immense love for us overshadowed all of these weakness.. A believer feels fearful or angry doesn't mean he's possessed by a demon... He's only human..

This is also my last post..

live4dgospel:
Just believing can't send people to heaven but believing correctly

John 3:16; For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that whosoever believe in him correctly shall not perish but have everlasting life..

Mutumina1:
Hmmmn, you all wanna believe the Photoshop issh?

Well I guess this to was doctored isn't?
Stop the immaturity and be patriotic.

Guy, you nor try o. So you had this picture all along and you allowed this childishness to get up to page 3 before you posted it?

LordReed:
LoL! And yet till tomorrow no one has replicated that miracle by Jesus even though he said greater things shall ye do. Tell me something real bro.

Good to note the fact that you study the bible (at least a point in your life you did.) It seems most of your problem stems from the fact that you didn't understand what you read. I employ to study with someone grounded in the bible so he can explain things better and clearer to you. I'd have taken .my time to explain some certain things about the flood but all these are distractions from the main gospel we Christians were asked to preach. So I'll pass.

Sometimes it baffles me on how some people would wanna use the Bible to disprove the existence of Christ...

sonmvayina:
It is just words on paper, if you are wise enough you will find out if what is there is true or not..

But you are scared... Because you don't want your illusion destroyed..

Ok

Iamdazzle:
Yes indeed...

Explains why people in a heightened state of anger do crazy things and turn back to say 'I dont know how or why I did it, blame it on the devil'

Oh sure, perhaps it must have been the spirit of anger that must have possessed them for the time of acting out unseemingly. For everytime you do something you wouldnt rather under normal circumstances, forget it something else has overcome you. Thats why the bible talks about self control and not giving place to the devil and that we take heed lest we fall.

This is not something to argue about, you can choose to believe whatever you like, it doesnt change fact.

Peace...

People also do things they're not capable of doing ordinarily when they're in a heightened state of fear and there's an adrenaline rush. Does that mean they're possessed by a demon too?

Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The fruits are of two kinds. The knowledge of good and the knowledge of evil. Both were deadly. The fruit of the knowledge of good was equally as deadly as that of evil. And if you ask me, I'll say the fruit of good was more deadly. Why? Cos it is more deceptive. It is this good part of the fruit that was "pleasing" to the eyes of Eve. It was it that was more deceptive. It is the good part that will make someone think he doesn't need the tree of life (Christ) to be like God. Like Eve the Pharisees think that by keeping the law (the tree of knowledge of good and bad) they don't need Christ (the tree of life) to please God.

The same mistake Adam and Eve and the pharisees made is the same mistake many of us. are making today.

Look up to Jesus the author and finisher of your faith.

rhektor:
The first says "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" and Romans 12 says that you should not be conformed with the world

You just want to discard both passages with your fixed saved by grace alone chant? Why do we strive to be different then? Jesus said unless your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the pharisees you will in no wise.......in the book of Hebrew we were told about holiness without which no man shall see the Lord there are too many verses that negetes your theory of once save you're forever saved. Man you need to really review this view of yours


Shalom

Yes Jesus said our righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees quite all right. But have you wondered how righteous this Pharisees were? These are sets of people that know the laws of God by heart. And they follow it to the uttermost. They tithe, they give to the poor. They fast, they pray, they don't worship idols, they don't use the name of God in vain, they don't steal, they don't fornicate or commit adultery, they don't covet their neighbours properties. In fact they obey the 10 commandments and the 613 mosaic laws (you can see them in Leviticus). If it's about being righteous, the Pharisees where righteous to the core. But Jesus said our righteousness must exceed theirs. Why? Cos even in all their righteousness they were still unrighteous in that they haven't believed in him. When you believe in Jesus, then and only then can your righteous exceed the pharisees'...

Have you wondered the set of people that criticized and killed Jesus? It wasn't the tax collectors or the adulterous, or the prostitutes. It wasn't the sinners. It was the pharisees. The people who deemed themselves righteous. Righteous by the law. They are the ones that ended up killing Jesus.

rhektor:
Why would they need to see the work in you?

Let your light so shine before men that.... Complete it..

sonmvayina:
Now I know where you are coming from.. But the creator of all is not a man or a human being Number23 :19..you are talking about the Roman invention called jesus..
God is the universal divine consciousness...

Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Since creation, neither man nor angels had seen God. All angels could behold was his glory. Man could see his works and the could get glimpse of his shadow. Man couldn't really understand what they haven't seen. So God had to come down to earth as a man so man would be able to behold him. Jesus was that man. He is the image of God. Through him the invisible God is made visible.
Through him, the mysteries of God is explained. Through him, the nature of God is clearly understood.
Through him the "farness" of God is brought closer.
Through him the fullness of God dwelt.
If you've seen him, you've seen the father.
If you worship him, you worship the father.
He's the only way to the father.
No one can see God without seeing him.
No one can serve God without serve him.
God is invisible.
Jesus is the image of the invisible God.

rhektor:
I think you should read Philippians 2:12 and compare it with Romans 12:1&2

A lot need to be done by believers don't just sit there and preach saved by grace and forget about faith without work being dead

I would have loved to hear albhagdadi to respond to this

If a lot needs to be done by a believer then Jesus shouldn't have died in the first place. We'd have just needed to do the "lot" of things to be saved. It is pride and not humility that will make someone think he needs to do "a lot of things" to get himself saved or to remain saved. The bible tells us in Romans 8 that nothing, "of this age or the age to come" can separate us from the love of God.

This is why some people will cry out on that day "Lord Lord, I did so so and so in your name. I gave to the poor, I kept the commandments, I didn't steal, kill, commit adultery, I always attended church, I even healed the sick in your name, I raised the dead in your name." But Jesus will reply that he doesn't know them. He isn't lying. He actually never knew them cos they never really believed in his redemptive work. They, like Cain thought that they could please God with their toil, with their sweat.. with their good works.. They never believed that only the cross could save them..

James taught about the works of faith. But what we don't realise is that he was talking about the works that man could see. Works of faith is the proof that man needs to see in you to make them believe you're a believer. The only proof God needs is the seal of salvation. Which you get when you believe.

Let's take a look at the thief on the cross. He only needed to believe in Christ and he was saved. He didn't need to do "good works" . He only need BELIEVE.

sonmvayina:
Now I know where you are coming from.. But the creator of all is not a man or a human being Number23 :19..you are talking about the Roman invention called jesus..
God is the universal divine consciousness...

Well, I choose to follow what the bible says.

What those set of people don't know is that Jesus didn't come to give us wealth. There were wealthy people on earth before Jesus came to earth. He came to give mankind what they never had before (eternal life) not wealth. Any gospel that preaches that Christ came to make us riches is another gospel and should be taken as such.

sonmvayina:
Where did you get this idea about God, because clearly this is not the God portrayed in the bible... And you know it...

This is the God portrayed in Jesus Christ. Any other God portrayed in the bible was portrayed by man who had limited understanding about God. Jesus Christ is the explanation of God. He is the fullness of God. The qualities I mentioned in the my previous post are the qualities of Christ hence the qualities of God..

rhektor:
How about working out your salvation with fear and trembling?

As a believer, you do not "service" your salvation. Leave the "servicing" to be done by Christ. He's the author. Allow him to be the finisher. He started the work, he should be left to finish it.

It text you quoted about working out your salvation, I want you to read the whole verse and the verse after it.

Sin have so much distanced man from God that even when God has come down to his (man's) level, man has rejected him. Our sin consciousness have made us feel that with just the simple move of believing in Christ we're saved once and for all.

If only the devil had the slightest idea of what the death of Jesus would do for mankind, he'd have done all within his powers to stop Jesus from dying (and he'd have still failed woefully).

The seal of salvation have been given to the believer and nothing, not life, nor death, nor angels, nor demon, nor sin itself can break that seal...

alBHAGDADI:
Don't mind them. I'm glad their attitude has given more meaning to what the Bible said that "only few people find the narrow path that leads to life". Majority believe they can save themselves but will end up in destruction.

As for sin being sin, there are different levels of sin. If not, why would Jesus say those that delivered him to Pilate hath the greater sin?

John 19:11

Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Sin is sin in the sense that the person that tells a white lie is no different from the person that beheads a pregnant woman. The same judgement for a murderer is the same for that person that steals a Biro.

The moment we start distinquishing small sin and big sin is the moment we will start needing Christ only when we commit the "BIG" sin. All have sinned(not the believer) and have fallen short of the glory of God. Whether the sin be lie, theft, murder etc he/she is a sinner. The wages of sin is death (roman 6:23) . This Bible text didn't tell us the type of sin that deserves death. It simple said "SIN". They're actually some moral non Christians that have never commit sin (permit me to use that) but they all sinner before God cos they haven't received the gift of God (salvation).

Remember even the righteous deeds of an unbeliever is still a filty rag (sin) before God. So my brother, sin is sin... In a certain sense..

sonmvayina:
It is just a metaphorical story to teach us the spiritual fact that it is still God that destroys.. God creates and God destroys... The Bible is not a history textbook but a spiritual manual..

To learn and Know..

Well I don't know which god you're talking about. But my
God is Life, no death in Him.
God is Love, no hate in Him.
God is Light, no darkness in Him.
God is Good, no evil in Him.
God is Faithful, no failing to be who He is.
God is Gracious, no lack of mercy in Him.
God is seen clearly in Christ. No shadows and no stammering.

Funnily enough, it is the people that are in deep sin that will reject this gospel of the finished work of Christ. You'd be surprise that the "grace" preachers lives consecrated lives. But those that are sin consious, those that commit the worse sin (I know sin is sjn but permit to use this for the sake of emphasis) will reject this goodnews that their sin have been paid for once and for all.

This message of grace, of once saved is forever saved isn't a license to sin (those that see it as such are just sin conscious). This message of grace is the power to live above sin. It is the power for us believers to see that we're dead to sin. And if paraventure we ever fall into sin, we shouldn't remain there cos sin isn't our nature anymore. When we fall we shouldn't see ourselves as condemned sinners cos there's therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. This is what we preach..

After the fall of man, the serpent (Satan) was cursed to feed on the dust of the earth. Man was created from the earth. The Satan was to feed off the earthly desires of man. That's how he tempts us. By influencing our earthly desires.. The devil feed off our earth desires and nature (which doesn't change even when we're saved). The devil can tempt even through our desire for food, sleep, fame sex, wealth etc.. That's how he tried to tempt Jesus. That's where his power lies. And that where it stops for us Christians.. The devil nor his demons can never posses a Christian. For him to posses us he'll have to upsurp the Holy spirit from His abode (us). But he can influence us through our earthly desires and nature.

While he's powerless to us, we shouldn't forget he's cunny and wise and we shouldn't be ignorant of his devices..

Iamdazzle:
Have you ever been angry to the point you couldn't control yourself?

There you have been possessed, Christian or no...

No matter how spiritual you are, you can only strive for perfection...

Any giving of place to the devil by consenting to sin of any kind is akin to a form of possession by that spirit controlling the sin. And no, the Holy Spirit is never with you when you are tempted and fall for sin until you pick yourself up, realize your iniquity and ask for forgiveness. Then you are revived and the Spirit of God dwells within the believer again...

Please don't get too comfortable in thinking you've been saved and are free from being overtaken... Take heed people and shalom!

Being in a state of uncontrollable anger doesn't mean a christian is possessed. Anger is one of the weakness of the flesh. So is hunger and fatigue. A believer is hungry or tired doesn't mean he's possessed by a demon..

The same people that see homosexualism as natural will frown at pedophiles and beastialists..

lensdam:
Can the holyspirit share the same body with a demon?

I don't see why that question is directed at me...