₦airaland Forum

Neurotika:
‘Revelations’ like this only re-emphasizes the decay in our medical system. He was declared dead by which doctor and hospital?. Where are their license to practice? Are these license provisional or permanent? Where is the Death Certificate? Which signatures are on it?

I give no hoot about the religious hallucinations of anyone but issues like this needs to be addressed. There are some certain sectors of society incompetence cannot be allowed and in saner climes, heads would have rolled by now.

Although I do not believe the op but I must say this.

NDEs have occurred in "saner" climates too.. With competent non religious doctor declaring and signing the death certificate of the dead only for the dead person to wake up minutes (or even hours) later.

You can do your research an you'll find out that NDEs also happens in saner climates with compete non religious doctors..

MuttleyLaff:
"This is what the LORD says:
"Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?"
- Isaiah 66:1

"The LORD has established His throne in the heavens,
And His sovereignty rules over all."
- Psalm 103:19

Heaven, is a celestial, unable to be seen with ordinary physical eyes HQ or command post of God,
whose extent of power, control, jurisdiction, authority and influence extends all the way to earth
The Isaiah 66:1b "... the earth is my footstool" & Psalm 103:19 "... And His sovereignty rules over all." remarks testify to this.

I think it right and appropriate to quickly and fully, first, apprise you about paradise Perfectbeing.

Well, until Jesus' parable in the NT, sheol, in general,
without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls, has been the realm of the dead or abode of the dead.

We have verses in OT (e.g. Psalm 9:17 etcetera) suggesting that the wicked go to sheol
but it was Jesus in the NT that brought things into perspective when he shared the hyperbolic illustration of sheol with the story of the Rich Man being elsewhere and Abraham with the Poor Man being on a different side to where the Rich Man is

From Jesus' parable, we got to know, that Sheol, actually has two sections with a dividing gulf (i.e. the dividing gulf is a demarcation)
The two sections were the Rich Man section and Abraham's bosom section

"Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise."
- Luke 23:43

Most people' last words are very profound, and Jesus' is no exception to this.
Jesus as a dying man, hung on a cross, uttered seven famous dying last words
Jesus' second famous dying last word was the Luke 23:43 remark to the thief and promising to be with the thief later that day in paradise

Those, initially and who would have been, in the good side of Sheol, (i.e. Abraham's bosom) are now in paradise, just where the thief too is

Paradise is an intermediate state
It is like being in an airport terminal's departure area
The area where you (i.e. think of the Rich man here) hold your ticket, boarding pass and wait with your luggages before taking a flight to your final destination

Some airlines, as a service to premium or selected passengers, operate airline lounges,
providing the premium or selected passengers with comforts in these lounges,
that are better than and beyond, those available in the airport terminal's departure area for regular or economy passengers

These premium or selected choice passengers (e.g. think of Father Abraham and the Poor man here),
enjoy plush and more comfortable seating, quieter environments, advantage perks are provided.
Other privileges may include private meeting rooms, telephones, wireless internet access and other business services, along with provision of free drinks and snacks to enhance passenger comfort.
- looks and sounds like a place of bliss, doesnt it?

1/ Do you know what happened, what Jesus did, a few weeks after He narrated that parable of the Rich Man and Poor Man named lazarus?
2/ Most of the verisimilitude characters in Jesus' parables, hardly have names, but the name of the poor man was given.
Do you know why Jesus, on purpose, gave Lazarus, as the name of the poor man, in that parable Perfectbeing?

"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world"
- Luke 4:5

"Yours, LORD, is the greatness and the power
and the glory and the majesty and the splendor,
for everything in heaven and earth is yours.
Yours, LORD, is the kingdom; you are exalted as head over all."
- 1 Chronicles 29:11

Though you werent specific about the kingdom
the kingdom, nonetheless, is any form of king dominion,
as in, to control, direct, influence, exercise authority over etcetera a territory and people

"But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come upon you"
- Matthew 12:28

"But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you."
- Luke 11:20

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God".
- Luke 9:27

"Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
- John 3:3

"For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power."
- 1 Corinthians 4:20

²⁰And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said,
The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
²¹Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you
- Luke 17:20-21

It's a known fact & truth that Jesus, sometimes, interchangeably uses "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven"

Jesus in Luke 13:18-30, gave an illustration of what the "Kingdom of God" is like and what He can resemble it with
The "Kingdom of God" phrase, depending on the context used, has multiple meanings and/or interpretations.

However, fundamentally and without mincing words, it just means the rule, control, influence, exercising authority, power and government of God

In this context, it is the rule of God, God's rule over something, anything, someone, somebody, your heart for instance etcetera
which is why Jesus, in Luke 17:20-21 above, said the kingdom of God is within you or us

"²³Then Jesus said to His disciples,
“Truly I tell you, it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
²⁴Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
- Matthew 19:23-24
I earlier mentioned that Jesus, sometimes, interchangeably uses "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven"
Matthew 19:23-24 is one of the instances of Jesus, interchangeably using "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven" in a remark.

¹In those days John the Baptist came to the Judean wilderness and began preaching. His message was,
²“Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the kingdom of Heaven is near.
- Matthew 3:1-2

From that time Jesus began to proclaim and to say,
"Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near!"
- Matthew 4:17

Without knowing for sure what context you have in your mind with the questions, I am hard-pressed doing justice answering this.
so it's suffice to say, fundamentally, the phrase "Kingdom of heaven" extends or stretches beyond Heaven itself.

The kingdom of Heaven is territorial, extending from Heaven to the end of designated points
(i.e. John the Baptist announcing it's near, to Jesus announcing it's drawn near)

"²⁸Then Jesus said,
"Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.
²⁹Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
³⁰For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”"
- Matthew 11:28-30

This last one is very beautiful and comforting.
Mere seeing and reading "To enter His rest." puts one at ease

"To enter His rest." is nirvana, utopia, paradise, Eden revisited, all rolled into one

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To be honest Perfectbeing, without acknowledging and recognising the fact that context is king,
I really dont see the relevance of the five then later changed to six questions
but still obliged you anyway.

Hmm..

Well, if you take offense at me adding one extra number then accept my apology

If the disciples and the early churches preached some of these false gospels we're hearing today, I don't think Christianity would live more than the first Christian generation.

10mobile:
Where please?

Osubi, Delta state

PastorDavidAwuj:
Is this for me? Well, let me give it a go.

Heaven, Paradise, “enter into his rest”, all mean the same thing- that’s God’s abode, also this is the final abode for every saved spirit. You know the texts.

The kingdom, kingdom of God, kingdom of heaven, these can be used interchangeably as they mean the same thing. Anybody that has accepted Jesus as Lord and saviour is said to be in the kingdom of God already, and all the entitlements of the kingdom belong to him. You know the Bible texts for these as well

It wasn't for you pastor. The question was meant for muttleylaff.

dominique:
To be honest, the only person that I know that lost his job is not because of the economy but because he was unprofessional and was cutting down on work hours. He's a real estate agent now and not doing too badly. Makes me wonder where they're getting all these figures from.

And the only person I know that lost his job lost it in 2012.

Can someone mention just one person he/she knows that lost his/her job in the last 3 years. Tell us the work he/she was doing before it was lost.

bercu:
when they came with the Christian doctrine of marry only one wife, women jumped up in jubilation, today women have turn to sadist because husbands are rarely available, because in every society there there are 2 times the number of women than men, and men are prone to death than women, in all ramification,

1. the gene chromosome in spermatozoa which is the Y chromosome that is to produce a male offspring have only 30% chances of survival before it could fertilize the ovary

2. at infant they are more prone to diseases that leads to infant mortality than the females

3. the immune system of an average male adult is weaker than that of the average female

4. the number of men that die at early stage of their life, either by natural cause or accident are 4x more than female

5. men join army and are mostly deployed as combat troop and alot of them die,

6. population of male continually decrease at higher percentage while that of the females usually increases.

i am a female and a medical doctor

Tell us woman, how many husbands do you have now?

Perfectbeing:
Please give us the difference between 1. Heaven. 2. Paradise. 3. The kingdom. 4. Kingdom of God. 5. Kingdom of heaven. 6. "To enter his rest."
And back it up with scriptures..

Still waiting for a reply..

21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 ] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

In reading the bible you must take note of context, grammar, literal forms, figure of speech and meaning of Bible phrases.
1] That said notice, that those "WHO DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER" are those who enter. Only the Jesus who used that word can tell you what he meant, plus we look at other corroborative verses.
First and foremost there is no were in the bible, where "the will of my Father" is alluded to be the 10 commandment. In all of my over 50 times of reading
In John 6:38-40
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
He calls the Will of the Father, BELIEVING ON JESUS.
In Hebrews 10, we see that Jesus came to do the Will of God, by dying for our sins and resurrecting so those who believe can have eternal life.
In the context of Matthew 7. The post text of our key verses, shows that to do the will of the Father will be to build your house on the rock. Which means to have Jesus as your rock or FOUNDATION. Building your house will be you being in Christ, for Christ is the Anchor for the soul.
2] Notice in Matthew 7:23. Jesus said I "NEVER KNEW YOU". That means they were never His. As He never knew them.
Does God know the Believer. Of course YES.
We are sheep of His Pasture. In John 10, the Shepherd knows the sheep. Also we are the temple of God. How can the ONLY wise God not know where He stays.
John 17:3 " And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." All those with eternal life Knows God. Know" here is "Ginosko" is a Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. He that is joint to the Lord is One Spirit.
How can One Spirit not know each other. How the head tell the Body to depart and remain alive.
Galatians 4:8-9
8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Notice verse 9, you know God and God knows you.
3] In Matthew 7:22, the people Jesus will say he never ever knew, are people who did not do the will of the Father, which is BELIEVE AND HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, SO CAN NOT PERISH.
The pretext shows that they were false Prophets. They were the same people He said we should know by their Fruit.
Jer 27:15 KJV For I have not sent them, saith the LORD, yet they prophesy a lie in my name; that I might drive you out, and that ye might perish, ye, and the prophets that prophesy unto you.
4] Notice that they did it in His name. That phrase simply means that they did it in His stead. What is called power of Attorney. But it is fake, they are false representatives of Christ.
They were never Christians that backslided, as that will mean, Jesus knew them at one point. But this one are fake, or false brethren who were merely professed but never believed.
Read and reread again.

Truth be told, I enjoy over 23 hours light daily

paxonel:
No,
The difference between us and the disciples who followed christ is that, they had to go through all that tribulation or stress of walking with Jesus from city to city through the wilderness to Jerusalem before they could be saved.
But here we are getting salvation in a platter of Gold for free by simply believing.
So we are far better than them.

Thats why i keep saying it is far better to be a christian than to be born again.

We are claiming born again today but we never understand what people who were born again in the bible went through before they eventually became christians

Hmm..

paxonel:
Except a man is born again he can never see the kingdom.

That simply means a man must be born again first, before he can see the kingdom.
And truly, the disciples had to follow Jesus to Jerusalem first before they were able to see and experience the crucifixion.
If they had not followed him to Jerusalem to see, there was no way they would have saw it and fully believe that Jesus was the Christ and be saved, therefore born again was the only way to the kingdom of God.

I don't get you. Does that mean we who didn't see the crucifixion of Jesus do not believe that he actually died and as a result, we're saved.

It's like saying a child must go through high school first before he can be admitted into a college or university.

That means high school and university are not the same.

So, born again and the kingdom or salvation are not the same.

In those days before Jesus was crucified, born again was the only means to the kingdom. But the moment Jesus resurrected,born again at that point achieved it aim and is not needed anymore.

Having said born again was disciples following christ, there is no physical Christ to follow anymore, we are already in the kingdom of God today, which was the aim of born again.

Therefore it is far greater to be Christian than to be born again.[/quote]

MuttleyLaff:
1/ PastorDavidAwuj, what was the meat in Nicodemus' opening remark?
2/ What did Jesus say, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see..." in reaction to what Nicodemus said with his opening remark?

donnie, please, can you in one sentence, describe from Nicodemus' opening remark, what was bugging him?

Jesus was talking about seeing or sight of the kingdom in verse 3,
was talking about entering or entry to the kingdom in verse 5,
was talking about salvation in verse 5,
and was talking about the love of God and the gift of salvation in verse 16.

Verses 3,5,15 and 16 are exactly the same thing.
They are related to each other but they certainly arent exactly same things

"born again" and "born of water" are different to each other
In order to see as in spiritually discern, one needs to be born again
In order to enter the kingdom, man needs to be born of water and of the Spirit (i.e. born again)

Whose fault is it then, if Pharisees have always thought that God's kingdom was a physical kingdom?
No wonder, Nicodemus was doubtful,
and Jesus wasnt impressed that Nicodemus, out of everyone, was slow on the uptake.

Jesus upped the ante "entering" whilst Nicodemus was still struggling and wrestling with "seeing"

Born again is synonymous with born of the Spirit, both mean the same thing, as in being born from above

"born again" was used by Jesus in the context of seeing
whilst "born of water and the Spirit" was used by Jesus in the context of entering

As I earlier typed, born again precedes and preceded salvation
In order to receive and get the gift of salvation, you'll first, have to be born again, be regenerated, be born from above or be born of the Spirit
The disciples, Nicodemus and a lot others were already born again before getting the gift of salvation

It is highly unlikely, anyone will be born again and not have or get the gift of salvation
Anyone truly born again, receives the gift of salvation

The thief was earlier regenerated and received salvation under a different condition that we now receive the gift of salvation under

I dont agree with me that "paradise" used in that context and "God's kingdom" are one and the same thing because they arent

The thief had the privilege of entering paradise, not yet, God's kingdom by itself.
Anyway, you can see how different the thief was compared to Nicodemus,
who was wrestling and struggling with the thought of who Jesus really is

In other words the thief's condition for salvation is different from ours?

MuttleyLaff:
I will, after you Perfectbeing.

But I asked first..

MuttleyLaff:
1/ PastorDavidAwuj, what was the meat in Nicodemus' opening remark?
2/ What did Jesus say, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see..." in reaction to what Nicodemus said with his opening remark?

donnie, please, can you in one sentence, describe from Nicodemus' opening remark, what was bugging him?

Jesus was talking about seeing or sight of the kingdom in verse 3,
was talking about entering or entry to the kingdom in verse 5,
was talking about salvation in verse 5,
and was talking about the love of God and the gift of salvation in verse 16.

Verses 3,5,15 and 16 are exactly the same thing.
They are related to each other but they certainly arent exactly same things

"born again" and "born of water" are different to each other
In order to see as in spiritually discern, one needs to be born again
In order to enter the kingdom, man needs to be born of water and of the Spirit (i.e. born again)

Whose fault is it then, if Pharisees have always thought that God's kingdom was a physical kingdom?
No wonder, Nicodemus was doubtful,
and Jesus wasnt impressed that Nicodemus, out of everyone, was slow on the uptake.

Jesus upped the ante "entering" whilst Nicodemus was still struggling and wrestling with "seeing"

Born again is synonymous with born of the Spirit, both mean the same thing, as in being born from above

"born again" was used by Jesus in the context of seeing
whilst "born of water and the Spirit" was used by Jesus in the context of entering

As I earlier typed, born again precedes and preceded salvation
In order to receive and get the gift of salvation, you'll first, have to be born again, be regenerated, be born from above or be born of the Spirit
The disciples, Nicodemus and a lot others were already born again before getting the gift of salvation

It is highly unlikely, anyone will be born again and not have or get the gift of salvation
Anyone truly born again, receives the gift of salvation

The thief was earlier regenerated and received salvation under a different condition that we now receive the gift of salvation under

I dont agree with me that "paradise" used in that context and "God's kingdom" are one and the same thing because they arent

The thief had the privilege of entering paradise, not yet, God's kingdom by itself.
Anyway, you can see how different the thief was compared to Nicodemus,
who was wrestling and struggling with the thought of who Jesus really is

Please give us the difference between
1. Heaven.
2. Paradise.
3. The kingdom.
4. Kingdom of God.
5. Kingdom of heaven.
6. "To enter his rest."

And back it up with scriptures..

All but head knowledge.

All this stories of people who went to hell and came back are nothing but false. They're unscriptural. Their origin is from the devil who wants to use all these stories to induce fear into a believer.
Visions, dreams and trance that induce fear is never from God. If your dreams or visions doesn't point to Christ they're of the devil and are false.

humandroid:
As a sequel to the previous thread (check it out), which I confirmed my true life experience that our reality is hosted on a Cosmic Computer (I have experienced this computer and received downloads/upgrades), I could confirm that we are living in a Simulation which is hosted from another Universe far more glamorous than this One ( I have had a peek of that Universe and seen the System Admin during the upgrade, which I could say is the Higher Self, the real me - Earth body being an Avatar).

That is bizarre but true life story.

I did a little youtube search and I found a Video from a Scientist, a pretty lady I will contact today to share my findings).

I will like only people who are interested on the subject matter to watch this video. Who ever has not not watched this video should not comment negatively until he/she watches the video of the Scientific Analysis.

Again, when you get to the point that the Scientist explains the Shape of the Simulation, She is absolutely correct, in my drive to find out the shape of Earth, I conducted a simple common sense experiment using Frequency of Earth, the Resonance Frequency of course which is 7.83Hz, the smart thing is use the Optoacoustic instruments to generate sound wave at 7.83Hz and see the shape it forms with salt or water or powder since the Universe is pixilated.

You can easily also find this out without experiment, find an image of the shape that a vibration at 7.83Hz sound can produce, that shape can be resolved to 3D, and it is the shape of Earth and the surrounding Landmass across cycling around the Earth, Antarctica is not just a continent, it sorrounds the entire Earth, such landmass and few smart trillionaire elites are living on that paradise alongside the contacts of the Aliens that designed the matrix of control.

Anyway, watch the video and if you do not understand, I have some time for charity work, I could explain further.

As for those egg heads that are busy making noise on the other threads out of their silly degree of ignorance, I presume your stupidity is hereby revealed.

The objective is to raise a hive-mind of smart persons, and that will focus zero attention on the misconceptions of religions and ready to focus more on designing concepts and modules to kick-start a project that could transform a people, when they have 100% faith in themselves and not the Annunaki and the yahweh Solid State Entity, I have nothing against the All-Seeing Eye. I just detest their worship programs, but they can worship me though.

Please enjoy by watching via this Youtube link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97FhauH1J58

The pretty lady scientist you saw on YouTube, was she also wearing red like the one in THE MATRIX too?

please in which chapter did Jonathan blame Buhari for his administration borrowing to pay salaries?
Cos from the way he's blaming everybody for everything I doubt he didn't blame Buhari for that...

paxonel:
Amen!
you are absolutely correct
but John the baptist was born again, he was never privileged to have the gift of salvation. He was killed before salvation was fully established when Christ resurrected.
The same thing applies to Judas Iscariot, he was born again too infact he was closer to Jesus than any other disciple yet he lost salvation and killed himself.
the kingdom of God was seen
that is very correct
it is true that those disciples who followed Jesus were born from above or spiritually rebirthed due to the fact that not everyone who heard about Jesus in those days decided to follow him.
Those who choosed not to follow him were not spiritually rebirthed just like the scoffers, mockers, cynics and pagans of today.
But that notwithstanding, not all who were spiritually rebirthed or born from above and followed jesus in those days ended up seeing Gods kingdom.
Jesus even confirmed that not all who called him lord lord will see the kingdom and that was what happened.
its very possible!
One can be a teacher of the bible yet he knows very little about it.

Paxonel, is being "born again" different from being "born of water and spirit?"

Cos from what you and muttleylaff are saying, someone who is born again can only "see" the kingdom but not enter. But someone that's born of water and spirit can "enter" God's kingdom.

So tell me, are such two sets of people different from each other??

MuttleyLaff:
Remember Nicodemus was a Pharisee,
and the Pharisees' idea of what the Messiah and His Kingdom is or would be, is different
Nicodemus' bone of contention is who is Jesus, is Jesus the Messiah or not
The reason for Nicodemus' clandestine and dead of the night visit, was to seek the truth, to know who Jesus is

Nicodemus had a problem with understanding the concept of regeneration
Seeing God's kingdom and entering into God's kingdom are not synonymous
They might be related but they certainly dont have the same meaning
Jesus explained what the criteria for entering into God's kingdom is (i.e. man be born of water and of the Spirit...)

As I earlier typed, born again precedes and preceded salvation
In order to receive and get the gift of salvation, you'll first, have to be born again, be regenerated, be born from above
The disciples, Nicodemus and a lot others were already born again before getting the gift of salvation
It is highly unlikely, anyone will be born again and not have or get the gift of salvation
Anyone truly born again, receives the gift of salvation

Will not only see the demonstrations & power of the kingdom of God
but ultimately will enter into the kingdom of God

Scoffers, mockers, cynics, pagans etcetera will never see anything good about the kingdom
and that's because they are not born again, are not born from above, are not spiritually rebirthed
Why you think there are atheists?
It is because regeneration has not taken place in them.

Born Again didnt publicly need to be preached by Jesus because it is a straightforward fact,
and Jesus was surprised that Nicodemus who happens to be a teacher, didnt know this
nor know that Born Again can be a prerequisite for salvation

Born Again and salvation, though are not in the same category, they nonetheless are related

Lastly, verse 13 and the rest, is trying to convince Nicodemus who is still wrestling with the thought of who Jesus really is
Jesus is telling Nicodemus not to fight the regeneration,
because salvation afterall comes from Him, following regeneration, following born again or following born from above

Jesus was talking about the same thing in verse 3,5,15 and 16.

For you to say that "seeing" and "entering" Gods kingdom are different, then you also mean to be "born again" is different from being "born of water."
Jesus couldn't having been saying different things in verse 3 and 5. Read it again.
3. verily I say unto thee, except a man be born again he cannot see kingdom of God. The pharisees have always thought that Gods kingdom was a physical kingdom, hence Nick asked in verse 4; ".. How can a man be born when he's old? Can he enter the second time into his mothers womb and be born?".

Jesus explained what he meant be being born again from verse 5 downwards.
5. " verily I say unto you except a man be born of water and of spirit , he cannot. enter the kingdom of God.
Verse 5 was a clear explanation of verse 3 and not different from verse 3.

Like I said earlier, for you to say "seeing God's kingdom is different from "entering it" in this two verses, then you must also mean that being "born again" and being "born of water and spirit" are also different as at used in both verses.

Now concerning being born again and salvation, they are also the same thing. One doesn't precede the other. For that to be true then you mean that someone can be born again and not yet have salvation. Or someone can have salvation and not yet born again.

From your definition of being born again, it means the thief and the cross wasn't born again but yet saved. Unless you want to mean the process of being born again and salvation didn't occur at the same instant (probably it had some seconds or maybe minutes space between the two to occur.)


Remember his exact words were " verily I say unto you, today thou shall be with me in paradise."
I'm sure you'd agree with me that "paradise" used in this context and "God's kingdom" are one and the same thing.

The thief had the privilege of entering God's kingdom by just one act- believe. He was saved/born again when he believed and that gave him the opportunity of entering into God's kingdom/paradise...

IDOL IN CHURCH SERVICE
1 Corinthians 10:13-14 KJV
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. [14] Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
A lot of the young generation 'christians' became actively conscious of idolatry in the church!
Though they have the knowledge(through history) of the existence and practice of the same in/by their ancestry,, ...their consciousnes, contact and even participation in/of idolatry grew by leaps and bounds in the church!
This happened as they witness and participate in strange spi-RITUALS such as; salt services, bow and arrow service, anointing oil service, the stone of David service, coconut services, praying into offerings, praying with sand from fathers compound in the village for deliverance, bathing in a stream for victory over the troubles of life, carrying about olive oil, anointed handkerchief, stickers, etc for protection or good luck; ..the list goes on!
A young lady having difficulties getting married came to our meetings. She narrated to me her ordeal with many preachers in the bid to solve her problem! Chief among her experiences was with a 'prophet' who told her to go buy a male goat, with which he would 'work for her' to get married. He instructed her specifically that the male goat must be a mature one, sniffing behind a female goat. That after his prayers with the animal, men will be sniffing around her like male goats do with female goats!
Now, this lady had never visited a native doctor in her life,...but she engaged in this act of idolatry in church!
A lady who had difficulty having children due to incessant miscarriages told me of her ordeal with many 'men of God'. The highlight of which a pastor told her to buy an egg, which after some days of 'prayers' told her to hang it in her room. That as long as the egg is hanging, the pregnancy will be retained! ....of course it didnt work!
This same pastor told someone to bring 70000naira, 7000naira, 700naira, 70naira, 7naira, 70kobo, 7kobo for prayer rituals for the fruit of the womb! This seems to have become a formula in some quarters, as I have heard of it again and again!
A lady narrated to me how she was having problems with relationship, the guys would come and go. And when a new guy came,... her pastor prayed and told her to collect her menstrual blood and use it to make stew for the new guy, ...and she did!
I can give more than 50 strange narratives here of pure idolatry acts, which I was told first hand by the victims, ..and all happened in churches, and instructed by 'men of God'!
The greek 'eidōlolatreia' traslated as "idolatry" in our opening text is a compound word comprising the greek word 'eidolon' meaning a phantom or image; and 'latreia' meaning service, homage, worship. Hence idolatry is giving the service, worship and faith due to God, to entity, image, or symbols.
The greek 'eidōlolatreia' is used four times in the New Testament, with its first mention in the book of Acts, where it contextually implies visible attention, worship, faith in, and service to images and symbols, ....ignorantly as unto God. This was a case with unbelievers.
Acts 17:16-23 KJV
Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
[17] Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
[18] Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
[19] And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is ?
[20] For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
[21] (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
[22] Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
[23] For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD . Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
A second mention, our opening text, is a warning from the example of Israel in connection to offering in sacrifice to idols(gk- phantoms or symbols). This was a warning to believers.
1 Corinthians 10:11-14 KJV
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
[12] Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
[13] There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
[14] Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
The third mention is specifically described as the works of the flesh;...in instructions to believers, in which we are warned against the same and encouraged to walk in the Spirit(love) to avoid it.
Galatians 5:17-20 KJV
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
And the last mention, which contextually implies the works of the flesh, is also a case of ADMONITION to believers against the same.
Colossians 3:5-7 KJV
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[6] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
[7] In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Now its worth noting that in all the four usages, three times(75%) it is used in connection with LUST directly or indirectly, and in WARNINGS AND COUNSELS to believers, and one time it is used directly of pure idol worship, and involve unbelievers. See it again;
1 Corinthians 10:13-14 KJV
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. [14] Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
Here he counsels believers against yielding to the temptation of idolatry.
Galatians 5:17-20 KJV
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Here again, it is a direct manifestation of the LUST of the flesh, and believers are counselled against it.
Colossians 3:5 KJV
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Here, its is specifically equated to COVETEOUSNESS, and believers are counselled against it.
It is therefore worthy of note that the temptation or tendency to idolatry lurks within the church. And whereas the believers in the early church were cautioned against it, we in many quarters today, seem to have outgrown these cautions and therefore plunged into idolatry for convenience.
Also, it is note worthy that whereas ignorance is a good diagnosis of many cases of idolatry, as Paul pointed out;
Acts 17:16, 22-23 KJV
Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
[22] Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
[23] For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD . Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
However, such diagnosis is primarily the case with unbelievers.
In the case of idolatry tendencies among believers, ...LUST, COVETEOUSNESS, GREED are its primary drive and feeds;...where faith, service, attention and worship meant for God and/or his word ONLY, are given to THINGS, FORMULA and RUTUALS for personal gratification.
It is my observation that, though not stated, many see the church as a "godly shrine", where as long as the name of Jesus is mentioned, ANY THING can be practised! And if it works, it becomes a doctrine and a norm. And this(sadly) is the case in many quarters, even in our many elevated pulpits.
Well, I believe strongly that this trend will not continue anymore. The TRUTH has no mentor, hence it has no allegiance to anyone or group.
Its just a matter of time,...and this time is a short one. I see a tomorrow not too far from today, and IDOLATRY in every form, measure and disguise will be TOTALLY OUT of the Nigeria churches, and africa as a whole; one stride at a time. And WHOLESOME preaching, teaching and praying, centred on the revelation knowledge of JESUS, what HE has done for us, what HE is doing in us, who we are in Him, what we have and can do IN HIM, would be considered ENOUGH!
Now, it is worthy of reiteration, that the purpose of the local church, or Christian garthering is very clear in scriptures, and emphatically so, that it is both visible to the blind and audible to the deaf!
Ecclesiastes 5:1-2 KJV
Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.
[2] Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
Be MORE READY TO HEAR!
Hence the house of God is primarily for hearing the word of God.
Mark 11:15-17 KJV
And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
[16] And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
[17] And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
The house of God is primarily THE HOUSE OF PRAYER,...of all nations. It doesn't change purpose with locations!
Also, the purpose of ministers(ministry gifts) in the house of God is already defined, and emphatically too.
Acts 20:28 KJV
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Ephesians 4:11-12 KJV
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Hence the minister must learn to/and behave accordingly.
1 Timothy 3:15 KJV
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
There is a way to BEHAVE in the house of God, and it is the minister's responsibility to know it, and stick to it. It is not our house, hence our personal behavioural curriculum, is not welcome!
The written word is all that we have to prove and approve all we do and practise in church. And all the above mentioned "services" and practises are neither stated nor implied in the New Testament by any of its characters. Not once in the gospel, not once in Acts of the apostle, not once in the epistles.
The New Testament ministry is a spiritual one. Hence its attention, faith and communication is not in things, but in the ministry of the word and prayers.
It is faith in the word, and faith in prayers.
It is NEVER FAITH IN THINGS!
Paul's admonition should suffice.
1 Corinthians 10:13-15 KJV
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. [14] Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
[15] I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.
Selah!

Cornelius was a high-ranking soldier in the world's most powerful army at the time. Although not a Jew, he showed significant piety. So much that an angel was sent to tell him how his gifts have been recieved and prayers answered. Remember that he wasn't a Jew and was under no obligation to worship God.
The angel lauded Cornelius, but reminded him of his nature - unsaved. He urged him to send for Peter who will tell him words by which he will be saved. Had Cornelius disobeyed, he would have died unsaved. This is major.
We have people who uphold the moral standards of the Bible ("the ten commandments", recieve answers to their prayers but aren't saved. Cornelius would had been a deacon in most of our churches today.
So it's not about what you do nor the results you have. It's about whom you have believed. What did you hear that got you "saved"? A man cannot be saved without hearing the gospel.
That said, we should see the need to constantly reach out to the unsaved, knowing that they aren't only found in the pubs but in our various churches too.
No one wants to be the best sinner that went to hell. A man who fears God, lives right, receives answers to prayers and see angles will go to hell if he doesn't believe the Gospel

The Irony of a God.
They talk of a God that hates people who sins, but not a sinner
A God that is against divorce, but He distances himself from the believer when he sins.
A God that preached forgiveness with ease, but needs an asking before he gives.
They talk of a God who is unconditionally loving, but gets angry when a believer sins.
They talk of a God that gives salvation with Faith, but he takes it back when their is failure of works.
They talk of God, as being in the delusion of language
I heard of a God that keeps quiet when a believer sins, while He spoke with Adam, knowing He had sinned.
A God that says to love our enemies, but He would reject us as sons if we sin.
They mentioned a God that teaches long-suffering, yet He is not patient to give the believer a chance for change.
A loving Father who seeks the opportunity to plague the son at the slightest of mistakes.
I was told of a bee-God. He has honey in His mouth, and a sting in His tail. A compendium of good and evil.

One of the easiest ways to identify a vision, dream, revelation or message that is not from God is if it inspires fear or condemnation
A message, teaching, dream, vision or revelation that brings fear or condemnation can never be from God
Either the person never heard from God or he interpreted wrongly what he heard ,saw or read.
God can never be the author of fear. He doesn't have fear therefore cannot give it!
Fear is always of the devil
Never give room to it.
A message from God can only inspire faith, love, joy, peace , comfort and assurance!
Be a smart Christian!

MuttleyLaff:
"Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
- John 3:3

Perfectbeing, was the kingdom of God at this juncture and/or time seen or not seen?

No it wasn't..

Before I explain further I must state this.
The only way a scripture can be taught or interpreted appropriately is by using other scriptures to explain it. Our interpretation shouldn't be what we think or what a scripture should say but how it is explained from other scriptures.
Unclear scriptures should be explained from other scriptures and not with head knowledge.

In john 2:23, it was stated that people believed in Jesus when the saw his miracles. They only believed Jesus cos of his miracles not cos of who he was. Verse 24 confirms this when it said Jesus did not commit himself to them because he knew all men. He knew those that were with him only there cos of what they could get from him..

And I tell you even our dear Nicodemus was part of those people. Look what he said in John 3:2;.. we know you're a teacher from God" see his reason for that; " no man can do these miracles you do except God be with him.
He only believed God was with Jesus cos of the miracles Jesus did.

In verse 3, Jesus told him, "...Except a man is born again be cannot see the kingdom of God."

When Nick didn't quite get what Jesus meant by being born again, Jesus explained further what he meant in verse 5; .. except a man is born of water and blood he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Verse 3 and 5 are saying the same thing. Jesus interchanged "born again" with "born of water" and "see" with "enter." Seeing the kingdom of God and entering it meant the same thing in this passage..

Further explanation of "seeing/entering" the kingdom was given when Nicodemus asked in verse 9, ".. how can this be?"

Jesus explained in verse 13 that "no man hath ascended up to heaven." Meaning no man has seen/entered the kingdom of God before. No man had ever been born again or saved prior to Jesus birth or death.

And he Verse 15 and 16, he gave us the clearest picture of what be meant by being born again. ".. whosoever believe in him would not perish but have everlasting life."


Salvation was all he was talking to Nicodemus about and nothing else. Salvation which is gotten when one believe in his death and resurrection is what he was saying to Nick.

Seeing/entering into Gods kingdom is only possible when one is born again or saved.. This state of being born again is achieved only when one believes in Jesus.

I call you blessed...

paxonel:
put it this way,
The time or era after Jesus crucifixion and resurrection till this moment is the kingdom of God(the time of christianity which is the time of salvation as there was no salvation until christ resurrected).
The era before Jesus was crucified was the days of John the baptist.
Right from the days of John the baptist the kingdom of God suffereth violence(verb), and the violent(collective nown) actually took that kingdom by force.

Now, who were the violent?

The violents were actually Jesus disciples (about 5000 of them trodding Jesus for 5 loaves and 2 fishes) who later ran away the moment Jesus was captured.

All these 5000 disciples were the born again.

How do i know?

Jesus told nicodemus.
Marvel not that i say you should be born again(meaning, i want to open up and tell you what i mean by born again). John 3:7

Then he came up with this parable in

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Now, these are the elements of the parable based on how Jesus interpreted his other previous parables.

The sound of wind represent the crowd of his disciples (over 5000 of them)
Nicodemus saw these crowd of people following Jesus, he could not tell where they were coming from and where they were going to. (Remember they were going to Jerusalem where Jesus was to be crucified but nicodemus didnt even know that)
These people were the born again because Jesus concluded to nicodemus, so is every one(of that time,take note of the timing) that is born of the spirit .

And i have said, all these people of that time ran away the moment Jesus was arrested, infact peter denied him three times.
Since they all ran away, born again siezed to exist.
There is nothing like born again today, rather we have christianity today.

All these things happened in the days of John the baptist which was the transition between the old covenant and the new covenant.
I can tell you emphatically that John the baptist was the founder of that born again covenant(if there was anything like that) because John the baptist himself was born again, yet he missed the kingdom (the new covenant).
The least person in the new covenant which is you and i, is greater than John the baptist and every born again who ran away and also missed the kingdom

From your first paragraph it seems you differed salvation from being born again... Is that the case?

paxonel:
Born again simply means to become jesus disciple or follower as at the Jesus was never crucified or resurrected. At that time there was nothing like christianity, so christians saying they are born again is aberration and they are only ridicling themselves.

There is nothing like born again anymore

"Except a man is born again, he can never see the kingdom of God" - Jesus.

I want you to ponder on that.
Read the Bible if you have to and see his explanation of what born again means..

jesusjnr:
It is ok if you disagree with my own opinion of when the disciples became born-again, but going by your own explanation that also meant that no one was also truly saved before resurrection of Jesus.

And that's inclusive of those who Jesus declared to be so, such as the sinner who anointed Him, unto whom He first said, "Thy sins are forgiven" and also "...Thy faith has saved thee: go in Peace"(Lk 7:48,50).

For at the time that Jesus said that to her, He hadn't yet resurrected, so her sins were not really forgiven and she also was not truly saved at the time that Jesus Himself said this to her, until his resurrection, as that was also what Jesus came to accomplish on Earth?

Jesusjnr, what's the purpose for Jesus' death? Since according to you, man could be saved before his death..

MuttleyLaff:
I concur without any demur with the emboldened

PastorDavidAwuj, it might interest you to know that the disciples, including Nicodemus were born again before Jesus' death and resurrection.

Born again, as in the context it is used in John 3:1-7,
and in an outright or oversimplified manner, means "born from above"

Whilst the mention of "born again" seems incidental,
it actually is serious, important and worthwhile to know and understand

paxonel, you are born again
and if you permit me, I can prove to you, that you are

If people could be born again before Jesus' death like you said, then his death was a waste and his blood was shed for nothing..
He'd have just taught Nicodemus about being born again and not die.