₦airaland Forum

BLINGZ88:
And I will also like to add that saying that catholic worship statue is like saying that dey worship Mary which is in no way true. But more on that later

I hope you know that her role is not just intercessory as some argue. How do you see this prayer to our mother of perpetual help?
"O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. O Purest Mary, O Sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, O Blessed Lady, to help me whenever I call on thee, for, in all my needs, in all my temptations I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary."

Bro MartialArt2, all these defences of yours to me are too porous. I reply as a Catholic who is committed to worshipping God in truth and in spirit. I won't tell you that the church is right or wrong in there practices, but ur argument I will challenge.
1. Talking about having pictures and portraits of loved one at homes, you shld ask yourself if they are for worship and veneration. The church attributes miraculous powers to the images used. Special prayers are offered to some of 'em. Remember that no one can prove that they are true semblance of what they represent as no one took pictures of those they represent. I believe u are aware of Exodus 20:4 where God maintained His position on images of any likeness for the purpose of worship. You should equally know that the snake sculpted by Moses was destroyed by Hezekiah when people started worshipping it. The question is: who is keeping people in check from worshipping these images? Are they right to be used?
2. You talked about not praying to Mary. It's either that u are oblivious of the fact or u don't want to admit. Go true the prayer to Our mother of perpetual help. The 2nd stanza says:
"O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. O Purest Mary, O Sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, O Blessed Lady, to help me whenever I call on thee, for, in all my needs, in all my temptations I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary."
So answer yourself. Whether it is right or not, let the Holy Spirit who is the minister of truth help us.
Her last statement in the Bible was " anything he tells u, do it". Are we doing as Christ commanded with respect to worship?
3. Talking about praying tru saints. hmmm, God help us. Do u think that the prayers carried by those heavenly beings were offered to them not God? I guess not. The issue is not praying thru them but praying to them. A certain saint is for lost items, another for healing the sick... you pray to them when u are in need of those. Go thru prayers to St. Anthony and St. Jude. Remember that the angel that gave John msg rebuked him when he wanted to bow to him.
5. Good friend, Catholic made some rules, yes. Some we're greatly influenced by traditions, and some no longer in force. Go back to history. Have u heard of the black Madonna? Do u know much about the doctrine of indulgence for both the living and the dead, forgiveness tru works of mercy and good deeds against grace only? The doctrine that forgiveness does not remove temporal punishment for sin or guilt. Indulgence does.
6. As per confession... answer this, did the apostles hear any confession? Confess to one another is different from confess to a certain person.

7. What do you have to say about papal infallibility? ...none of the apostles was seen to be infallible. Even Paul admitted his weakness and power of grace. He rebuked Peter when he played double standard too.
Gal 2:11
8. What do you have to say on individual accounts of apparitions, as you know that even the devil can disguise as the angel of light.
2Cor 11:14
Whether the church is right or not, I can't say, but I'm committed to worshipping God only in spirit and in truth as he commanded, using the Bible as my working tool. Thanks and may God's grace be on you.

The first question is whether Bible is a book or collection of books. Was it written in a day/the same time? Were the 7 books among the later discovered books or were they removed from the complete collection ab initio? Were they accepted as part of the bible from the beginning? Answers to these questions will help u.

NB: There are many historical books, some of which did not make it into the Bible. Some were just records of customs and practices. There are some later discovered manuscripts which were seen by some as doctored or not to be trusted books, considering how they were found and the content. Preaching of false Gospel/disguised Gospel started from the time of Christ, some principles of which were written down, they are the heretic Gospels. Do you know that there is Church of satan, and they read some altered heretic messages they call bible. God is not an author of confusion.

I know of Luther's 95 theses, his small and large catechism books, his anti catholic publications, his trial, his excommunication, his marriage to Katherine etc but never reliably heard or read that he removed the 7 books.
Catholics see Luther as the chief cause of Protestant movement and the cause of division in the church. Yes, he vehemently challenged some teachings of the church, and later, he challenged popes papacy as the vicar of Christ.
But the truth is that there were several "reformers" or protestants before and during the time of Luther. Luther believed in some core doctrines of Catholicism like transubstantiation of the holy Eucharist and retained some of it's practices, against the position of some other reformers, but differed in some areas, viz;
*use indulgence for the remission of sins for the dead and the living (he argued that forgiveness cannot be monetized...then the church was raising money to rebuild/build St. Peter's Basilica tru indulgences);
*no forgiveness without formal absolution by a priest, Bishop or Pope;
*salvation tru corporal works of mercy & good deeds instead of grace only;
*no marriage by clergies etc.
Some of the things Luther condemned are no longer practiced in the Catholic church.
He had his ups and down. He was heavily criticized for his anti Semitic writings.

Make ur research before believing anything.

Make sure u are firm in ur faith. Devil may play you a fast one by planting doubts in your mind once you start reading it. It is simply not good for a spiritually growing Christian to dabble with matters of other religions. You can read it just like an academic exercise and not as word of truth which it is not, if u are firm in ur faith.

Beautiful piece. The key is to be prayerful. If you discover that you getting weakened, you'r fire yourself up with prayers. Devil is a trickster, so no chance is to be given to him. May the grace of God hold us firmly.

[quote author=Princewell2012 post=43892562][/quote]Sorry I can't quote all.
I love your understanding of the word, however, you can't say that his position is from the pit of hell as that will be judgmental, instead you correct him if you can. Again, you spoke of tithe...Just know that it works for those who do it and it's not wrong to tithe but we are not compelled to do so. You don't have to tithe to make heaven. Tithing is very good when done wilfully, and that doesn't mean that God, by it, owes you.
(Those who avoid some food for the sake of worship should not criticize those that eat everything, and those who eat everything shouldn't criticize others who avoid some food... Go thru Romans 14)

sonOfLucifer:
Feel free to ask. Where I have no answers, I will not pretend to.

I like your form of religion. Attraction by example not words or fancy spiritual mumbo-jumbo. Keep it up.


Unfortunately, I found religion and God very limiting.

Religion could be more law-based but it is left for you to develop that personal/spiritual connection with God, which he makes possible via his grace, instead of jettisoning religion.
Well, I've discovered that one CANNOT understand God if he doesn't understand love. And you can't claim you love God if you don't love your fellows. You can't love your fellows if you are not ready to let things go or sacrifice your right/comfort for them. Sometimes it makes one look so stupid. (Religion starts and ends with love)
So may I ask...what led to your decision to loathe God as your moniker portends.

Vanderandrew:
I am not speaking for myself, I am saying what I have generally seen in Christianity. For you to love God more deeply, listen to messages about His love. When all you do is focus on God being a God of Judgement, hardly can you receive his love. People who dwell on God's Judgement criticize others, wish others evil rather than pray for them, they mock sinners, gossip and point accusing finger at the brethren. Of Course the love of Christ will show in how you treat your fellow brothers. On that day many will say I cast out devils in your name and Christ will reply depart for I know you not. They neglected their neighbour in need. The turn their faces to someone who needed help despirately, refused to forgive and let go of the past. You know them by their fruits. They always produce bad fruits, fruits of judgement, ill-will and evil. The love of Christ is not in their hearts. They insist on their rights instead of leaving it to God. Remember whatever you behold is what you get. If you behold God's Judgement, that's what you get. If you behold His love, that is what you will get

Of a truth, this post of yours was not informed by mere human knowledge. You just reminded me of the story of the good Samaritan.

sonOfLucifer:
Good sermon. Touched my soul. True love comes from within not by compulsion. Knowing that giving adds more.. Like Jesus said,
'Very truly, I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains just a single grain; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.'
Truth is eternal. Truth never fails. May a million Gods lead us to a single truth. RAmen Akbar.

Yes, it's not by compulsion. That is why we are given free will in the first place, so as to consciously develop that personal relationship with Him. Even when one preaches salvation to others, he shouldn't do so with force or treat. The work of conviction and conversion is done by the Holy Spirit.
You moniker makes me wanna ask u some qstns.

Post the whole thing before the link if you really want people to read and learn.

ayoku777:
Why will you give up on christianity or on Jesus because of how others serve him? Are you a follwer of men or a follower of Christ.

If others choose to be hypocrites, why should that affect your faith in Jesus? Are you following them or Jesus?

If today my mentor backslides and becomes an adulterer, I will fall on my face and interceed for him and pray for his restoration. It won't make me lose my own faith in Jesus or say christianity is a farce.

If other people's carnality and hypocrisy is what determines your opinion of christianity, then it means you never had a personal relationship with Jesus, you knew him through character and lifestyle of others.

You should get to a point in your walk with God, where you know Jesus for yourself, and the carnality of others only makes you interceed for them in love, not affect your own faith.

You asked a question that you should have directed at yourself first, "Did you read your bible today"?

If you've read your bible, you would know that since the days of the early church, there has been carnal and ignorant brethren in the family of God and body of Christ, and that has not changed.

If you're a true believer, other people's carnality should not make you lose your faith in Jesus or in christianity but rather move you to intercession for the house of God.

Shalom

Plz tell her. I don't know why people always use failed preachers, pastors, Priests etc as excuse. The simple truth is that no man of God is immune to failure. If you don't stand ur ground, whether pastor or whatever, you will experience a mighty fall. Again, many of those revered preachers are not of God, and some of them may not even know it. 1John 4:5-6 says that "those false prophets speak about matters of the world and the world listens to them because they belong to the world. (6)But we belong to God ...this, then, is how we can tell the difference btwn the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." Many today are not preaching the word but the world.

You've actually said nothing, so I don't see how to reply you other than saying the obvious, and neither do I have reason to bash u. Plz can u stop taking drugs on another man's sickness. How on earth does Christianity encourage laziness? Seeing someone ministering the word of God from morning till night shouldn't be ur concern since he neither steals from you nor the national coffers, and neither does his family complain of not being cared for.
You should know that devil has his seed everywhere (even in churches), so no amount of churches can stamp out corruption. Devil himself has floated a lot of churches to fight the true Gospel, so a lot are there who are not Christians as they made u understand.
Finally, once you start looking at people as ur basis for worshipping God, then you ain't ready at all. It's a personal race,,,garrit?

jackzin:
so far, this has been a reasonable answer.. not the many words poured on this thread

Don't rejoice in the death of your enemy dear. Everyone deserves a second chance irrespective of of the person's sin. It is not our position to ask God to cut ones own short.
That we have power to bless or curse doesn't mean it's right to curse.

onoslove:
Do you believe that there are people who go diabolical, calling out names of people that they will not marry, bear children and many more. If God opens your eyes and you see such a person calling your name in any of the above mentioned, are you sure you can still love such a person. Any person who mention my name for evil in any part of the word should die by fire.

By God's grace, yes! I will pray that God nullifies his plans and bring him into His light. I love not their ways, but I love there soul to be saved. See, it is God's plan that we all be saved, and until one dies, he still has ample opportunity. I wont pray that ones opportunity be cut short. If I was visited with the consequences of my sins, I doubt if I would be alive. This kind of love doesn't come naturally. It's by His grace.

Kondomatic:
I don't pray for my enemies to die, it is useless and I don't think God answers that prayer.



To answer your question, whoever prays for the death of another human being has no love in him/her, such person is worse than an unbeliever.

The truth is that it is wrong to pray for the death of our enemies. However, we are gifted with the power to bless and curse. Sometimes when someone wrongs us and we curse, we see it happening. Good ones will go back and pray for a reversal. It is wrong to pray against ur enemies. See them as helpless people who deserve God's grace for survival. God loves all of us; the "holy" and the sinner alike. I hate the "die by fire" prayer.
We should love our enemies and pray for them. Our prayer and love could be what they need to change/repent.

Flexherbal:
While take up a job that you know you can't obey its rules?

If you believe this report then you will believe anything. The Catholic church is so strict about certain issues. This is just a ploy to buy people's sympathy to homosexuality and spite the general Christendom.

This is a lie. You can't be gay and still be allowed to be a Catholic priest. You will be striped off all the priestly privileges. Why are you guys so hell bent in spiting and denigrating the church and Christ.

Before army/police checkpoint

I noticed that many people worship God because of the fear of hell fire. But if we worship God simply because we're apprehensive of going to hell, it means we are nothing more than those under the law. For we will know the truth, we will struggle to keep to it but always fall back and remain condemned by the same law. We will keep rising and falling, swinging like a pendulum, following procedures and doctrines as if faith is mathematical.
One who for the fear of hell alone serves God, easily falls into sin as the adamic nature will make him believe he will surely repent before death calls. He only forgives or loves others, not because he wants to, but because he doesn't want to go to hell. So he does that to liberate himself,like he is simply looking for an escape. Such a person will say he has forgiven another who wronged him, yet he will avoid same person like plague while professing that he has forgiven, but will never show him love when the opportunity presents or treat him as if he never did any wrong. That is when one is said to be living a hypocritical life like the Pharisees. You tend to visualize everyone u call sinner as already in hell, robbing yourself the opportunity of experiencing true love for ur fellows and for God.
Some preach, not because they truly want the listeners to repent or because they care for their souls but just to fulfill all righteousness. That is why many of us are so quick to say the "die by fire" kind of prayer instead of loving our enemies and praying for them. The soul of that murderer, prostitute, liar, fornicator, drunkard, adulterer etc is equally important to God. We should love them and pray for them. We don't even have the right to condemn or criticize them, or weigh the gravity of their sins; who are we to judge?
However, true worship is done for the sake of love we have for God and our faith in Him. Then we strive daily to be united with Him; to please Him and grow spiritually; to know him more and understand His love; to be guided in our daily affairs by Him, and to retain His spirit in us. We avoid sin, not because it will cost us heaven, but because sin has no power again on us as the grace of God has set us unto righteousness through faith. Then we become no slaves to our passions. That is when we worship Him in truth and in spirit as His grace takes over, setting us above the law and leading us unto righteousness for eternal glory. For we will struggle less to avoid sin, all we do is to give God all, holding nothing back from Him. We tend to do more work, but effortlessly.
And yes, heaven is the final reward. If you really love God, it will reflect on the love u have for ur fellows. All you will wish for is that they experience same. You will hardly hate those wronged you. You correct them instead of criticizing them; you guide them instead of judging them; you pray that they understand their infractions and make amends instead of wishing them death or suffering... Just as Christ saw those who crucified him as people who needed help and pity instead of retribution when he said: "Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing".
May God grant you the grace to worship him, not for the fear of hell, but for love and your faith in Him.

Grace could be an unmerited favour only from the point that it's a FREE gift from God, but using that as a working definition can be misleading. This is because grace works with faith. It doesn't work where it is not welcomed. You have to accept Christ and jettison sin before grace comes to set you unto righteousness, qualifying you for the kingdom of God. Grace doesn't cover sins that we may continue in it unstained, rather in our struggle to do right and love God having faith in Him, grace comes to strengthen us. It substitutes the adamic body of ours which is susceptible to weakness and sin with His own, and thereby setting us above the law unto righteousness. With grace, you will do more work but effortlessly. Grace is not for the lazy who wants to be spoon fed.

Bro Sanchez01, as regards church marriage, I must say that it isn't wrong. It was never condemned in the Bible.. It is as good as traditional celebration of marriage or court marriage. However, not doing church celebration of marriage does not make it spiritually invalid as some churches see it, neither is the celebration wrong as you alluded.

akaahs:
You shall not bow down to them or serve them (Ex. 20:45); Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold(Ex.32:31). It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling other Christians most especially Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and Saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues. God forbade the workship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!
In Ex. 25:18-22; 26:1; 31, for example, God commands the making of image of golden chorus. This heavenly image, of of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image dispose their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God. God also command the making of broze serpent. One had to look at the broze statue of the serpent to be heale, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decoration s. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind of the supernatural (Num.21:. Solomon s temple contains statues of cherubium and images that were used in worship(1 Kings 6:23-36;7:27-39;8:6-67). it was only when the people began to worship the statuein 2 Kings 18:4 that they did incur Gods wrath, and the King destroyed it. The command prohibiting the use of graven images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images. The only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ, who is the "image" (Greek "eikon" of the invisible God (col.1:15).
God's commandment in Deu.5:8- "thou shall not make a graven image'' is entirely connected to the worship of false gods. God does not prohibit images to be worship, but He prohibits the images themselves to be workshiped as idols. Christions, especially Catholics use images in worship and devotions; we do not use ''idols''. The different lies in what we believe about them. An ''idol'' is something made that is not simply used in worship, but itself is the object of worship. Sacrifices and obligations are offered to idols, since sacrificed is the root of any true worship. An image is something that is used in worship, but is not itself the object of worship. Sacrifices and oblation are not offered to images.
I hope these write up 'll enlighten our Protestants brethren. I 'll be posting on the issue about Why do catholics venerate the virgin Mary, the issue of Tithe, How we got Chrismas, Christmas Tree and Santa Claus.

Dear, even our forefathers used stones, trees, mountains etc as media, and not as god per ser. Some see them as the dwelling place of god or instruments tru which God can be invoked. Catholics see those images as medium, and more so ascribe powers to them. The images, scapulars, etc have special prayers offered to them. It's is wrong. God's commandment is straight, you don't use human wisdom to give it meaning beyond what it is.
I'm happy that you said that the serpent was destroyed by king Hezekiah when he discovered that the people have started worshipping it. Who then is putting people in check now to guard against image worshipping since every body bows to it and say their prayers.
Why can't we just worship in truth and spirit as commanded than trial and error?

Heromaniaa:
hi. I have an issue with my camon c8. the tethering and hotspots keep consuming data megabytes up to 400 mb in a day. and I don't even switch it on. the mb consumption happens on the back ground. have you experienced it? any solution?

Go to ur settings, click on data usage, go to options and select restrict background data usage. The steps in ur phone may be different. Thank me later

abdulkayus:
Hey dude, u all get it wrong. Maybe u have brainwash by the haters that always proclaim that Muslims are not circumcised, that is danger of a single story. Whenever I see that writeup, I always cringe at the hypocrisy of the writer. FYI, just as what indianbowy told u, circumcision is a fundamental law among thr Muslims, it is a compulsory practise.
Get informed

I may be wrong then. Are you a Nigerian? Are you sure all Muslims, especially the Hausa ones practice it? I live in the northern part though. Teach me

Annunaki:
You are joking, right?

I guess you know the meaning of irony

Anybody arguing the intercessory role of Mary has completely misplaced her place in redemption. Her last statement in the Bible is "anything He tells you, do it". Same with the voice of God during transfiguration, "this is my beloved son with whom I'm well pleased, LISTEN TO HIM". The same Jesus whom we we're commanded to listen to, told us that He is the way, the truth and the life, and that we who are heavily ladened should come to Him that He will give us rest. That He is the true vine and we are the branches, which means we are attached to him. He is our source of life. He is in us and we in Him. We look on to Him, the author and finisher of our faith. Why then do we defy His instructions by treating Him as though he is very far from us by going through the saints and His mother. He is ready to listen to us, instead, we go back to His mother who has directed us to Him. Mary has done her job and has been well rewarded. I respect/love her, but she just did her job well and nothing more.

Again, the role assigned to Mary by Catholics is almost same as Christ's. Check this prayer to "OUR LADY OF PERPETUAL HELP".
((O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. O Purest Mary, O Sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, O Blessed Lady, to help me whenever I call on thee, for, in all my needs, in all my temptations I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary.
O what consolation, what sweetness, what confidence, what emotion fill my soul when I pronounce thy sacred name, or even only think of thee. I thank God for having given thee, for my good, so sweet, so powerful, so lovely a name. But I will not be content with merely pronouncing thy name: let my love for thee prompt me ever to hail thee, Mother of Perpetual Help.))
Now tell me if this prayer is seeking her intercession aside exulting her "most powerful name" which is the "salvation of the dying".
How would God feel when His people exult the name of Mary instead. How would Mary feel?

Do you know also that several saints are seen to possess certain powers, exercisable from heaven. Either St Anthony or Jude is known to be the saint for lost items. you pray to him when in search of lost item. Another saint is for love, another for healing, etc. Then you pray to them when in need of those.
This is complete distortion of the Scripture. What is the position of Holy spirit (our comforter/helper) in Catholic church? Do you have any prayer to Him, but you have several to Mary and saints, why? Who is your comforter, who is your advocate? The same God, so pray to Him alone.

Mariner007:
What I am telling you is that there are no 3 gods, but 1 God operating in 3 offices.

Should I explain more?

This you said is true, but the three offices or manifestations of one God are employed in baptism. That portion of the Bible did not say, "baptize in the name of the father or the son or the spirit"

Why don't you pray now. Start with consistent short prayers. Don't wait until your spirit is full to pray for an hour.

analice107:
The thing pain you. Weytin you go do nah? Kiyasef

Easy sister. Some people don't deserve attention.

IndianBwoy:
Sorry I beg to disagree. Circumcision is a fundamental law in islam.

I'm sorry for revisiting this issue. In Nigeria, our Muslim brothers don't get circumcised instead. Some cultures practice circumcision, especially in the south. It's not a thing of religion

I personally don't like a marriage between people of different religion. Cohabitation could not pose any problem, but what of raising kids. You talked of allowing the kids to choose for themselves, but you forgot that at a very tender age, they take only what you give them. At that age, they don't have independent will. They see their parents as mini gods. It will be really messy when parents sing discordant tunes on such issue as religion. Africans are very religious you may score no point if you begin with ur religious status. "She no dey go church, is she possessed? devil is a liar. My son, she needs deliverance"
Again, don't marry him, believing he will change, consequent upon the doubts he expresses.
Finally, no African parents would like their children to have kids who will be fully disconnected from their root. This is always their strongest fear. We don't believe in "wherever you find comfort, build your tent and raise your family there". We believe in family unity and remembrance of ones root.
Let your reason for marrying him be not just love, but acceptance. Love is too selfish, a bit irrational and short sighted. Do you accept who he is, and not his promise to change? Are u ready to integrate and forego some of ur ways antithetical to his as he equally shifts ground to accommodate yours? Remember, love is like butterfly. Hold it so hard, it dies; hold is so loose, it flies. What would you have left when all chips are down? Is it just marriage of convenience?