₦airaland Forum

Goodyshoes:
It's not helpful to assume.
I do not and have never been a subscriber to any of Freeze's messages.

His point was biblically wrong . Hope you read that link

Goodyshoes:
He explicitly explained his position in the tithing topic, and not a single Pastor, who said otherwise replied with biblical backing.
Apparently you do not understand the workings of these churches and the whole tithing system.
You really do not have to follow just anyone simply because they're elderly or they're in some position where they talk and people listen. Think and ask questions, and you'd be guided, however slowly, into making rational and informed decisions.

Cheers.

Daddy freeze manipulated all of you . The tithe to God is different from what is given to the poor . You can read it up here:https://www.nairaland.com/4169634/error-daddy-freeze/8#62626677

Veraatabeh:
, frm the little tithe giving to pastor he will used it to build the house of God, pay his minsters nd choirsters and lastly take the rest to less privileged.Tb Joshua, oyedepo etc

Critics often feel that the tithe goes to the pastors account. Not at all Church money doesn’t belong to the pastor .

Mind u those private jets was brought by someone to daddy adeboye nd oyedepo.

That’s what they refused to recognize . Those who criticize ought to check their facts first .

Christians shld pls stop washing their dirty linen outside for the whole world to see instead we shld leave God to judge.Thanks for giving this small girl privilege to speak on narialand

You have spoken well God bless you

Oh God when will I win this thing . I do write songs too o . But boldness to sing it is the problem

Tithe is given to God. It’s not Adeboye who owns the church money . Daddy freeze should stop insulting what he doesn’t know

donnie:
depends on where the Lord leads him to sow into.

He said he will build auditorium in Ekpoma he did it . He said he would give 1billiion to BIU he did it

donnie:
No he doesn't eat tithes. There is an allocation formula for every church. The ministry is doing a lot for the gospel around the world.

Tell them o

donnie:
Go over your arguments and see that you aren't thinking straight. The money of the poor cannot do much in the Kingdom. It will bless them alright if they give cos they'll get a harvest, but all their giving will amount to little.

It’s the church that has been helping the poor na

If Oyedepo has 10 jets . What’s daddy freeze problem . Did he use his money ?

hardasan:
I'm not a pastor. Even if I am, it's not me that will receive the tithe of anyone reading this. I felt a burden to write and I am grateful I did. Apart from the bliss from the knowledge that I have impacted in not one, not 2, not even 10 lives, I feel like an apostle already
If you have followed up to this point, the summary is : tithing is biblical and it doesn't have to be money.

You have done so well . Anyone who reads your posts objectively will have good understanding .congrats

aribisala0:
I have read the bible over 100 times.
Indeed the new testament is a modification of Judaism to suit Europeans just as Islam is a modification of Judaism to suit Arabs
If indeed you have read the bible you must realise that Jehova the deity of the new old testament is very different from the deity of the New Testament.
No matter how much you try and dress it up.
Jehova was a very blood thirsty and vengeful deity. He was the God of the Hebrews .and his love was for "offerings". Mostly blood offerings.
Christianity tries to persuade us that this same deity has become a vegetarian even though in he old testament he clearly states that he does not change.
The Jewish idea of offering is very similar to the idea of ebo riru among the Yorubas or other ritual sacrifices among other peoples. Whether or not there is God is left to individuals to choose but the idea that God chose one or other nation on earth (none of them black or African or Chinese or Indian) is a self referent delusion `with no basis in objective reality.

Doctrinally Judaism and Christianity are irreconciliable,
The idea of trinity is totally absurd and abhorrent from anything that the Old testament has to say.
It is very clear that Paul created a new religion that was further elaborated by the early churches in Europe with the idea of making it palatable to Europeans i.e permit eating pork,prohibit polygamy(Jews were polygamous) etc.

The idea of Jesus dying to take away the sins of the world is itself foolish.
God Died Illogical

The more you read the bible and the quran the less they make sense.

You must suspend your brain to engage with these religions

You’re very wrong that’s what your teacher you

baronene:
The bible you always carry to your church, is it from nigeria?
i knw u learn diz frm ur so called daddy freeze
remember wah jesus said, about false teaching

Acts 20:29-30
29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.

30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

daddy freeze is among those that distort d truth

Very correct

paxonel:
Not just because of tithe
But also errors like others i mentioned previously.

Have you ever thought you could be the one in error?

This Hebrews 10:25 was at the time when there were no excesses found among the leaders of THE CHURCH back then, when things were far better as it is now.

You’re wrong . The early church had many issues .to the point some were stealing some even sleep with their fathers wife. There ware false brethren , false apostles etc . That is not enough reason for people not to go to church .

But always know that believers reserve the right to be on their own when church leaders are becoming questionable.

The Bible should be your guide . Your counsel is dangerous . People must go to church . Without the gathering together there is no church or Christianity . It is a fellowship together . One person can never be the church

paxonel:
Every false doctrines, ordinances,intimidation of church members to get them pay tithe, falsely distortion of church members financially by making them believe they are financing Gods work,

So it’s because of giving tithe you will rather prefer people don’t go to church ? Without. the church there will be no Christianity

Hebrews 10:25 (
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

lastmessenger:
my brother tithe is never a principle in the kingdom of God

Oh really ? What of offering

Tithe is simply a practice of the isreal nation meant to support the Levi

Tithe was already in practice before Israel and Levi were born

and the priesthood and sometimes the needy. Some is even meant to be used and enjoyed by the tither and his household.

That’s not the tithe to God . The 10% for the poor is not the same . It is only done every 3 years

The fact that Abraham paid tithe once is never a justification for tasking Christians to pay tithe.

The fact that his tithe was recorded once doesn’t mean he paid it once . It was a principle of faith revealed through Abraham as a way of worship . Remember Jacob tithed also.

Jesus Christ life is the standard

Jesus says to tithe

Paul talking about giving said everyone should give as he proposed in his heart because God loves a cheerful giver. If we should give as we proposed in our heart then no man has right to compel us to part with a fixed amount.
In conclusion, supporting your local assembly is a good thing to do but no one should be under compulsion to do so.

That was only for a special collection .it was a free will giving

MuttleyLaff:
Petra1 you should know who that was.
The guy has deactivated his account before his cover got blown, tsk tsk tsk.

I don’t o. Who was it sir

Maximus82:
The title was created to feed a 12th of all israel.and not a handful of sheneigans.

You probable were in a haste to reply . Kindly read my post objectively . It should answer your question .

I didn't say I meet these guys, I said I'm way up.there with and one of the few who challenge this madness.

So what dud you find out in this association UP THERE?

Nigeria sadly limits the brains ability in many things .. it's reflected also in religion, and that why it's one of the most drained nations on earth when it comes to religion

You're wrong Nigerians are blessed with brains. They always top the class in universities of the world . And concerning the gospel . Nigerian pastors are all over the world. The last day revival starts from here . Nigeria is leading the body of christ . It used to be England ,later America but even the American preachers testifies of the hand of God on this blessed nation

Until you get tithe very top level, you remain a sheeple with no idea how ministries run..

How does ministry run

it's as though you are speaking to a deaf man,

I'm feeling so

have you ever asked God to guide your heart and show you if you have been misled by the so called Pentecostal ministers? You couldn't even ask God that. Go home tonight and ask God in prayer. Tell him, you spoke to a guy who said all is not all it seems with the so called ministries. If he is right prove it, if he isn't keeep.me.on my path..you couldn't even make such an honest prayer because you are under a control you are not aware of.

You need the prayer now more then any one .

Maximus82:
I'll tell you why. The very televangelist you watch and see on TV across the world, I get to work with them etc

What is the point here?

The so called attack Christians rant on about is actually of the Lord. Hollywood is going through a spiritual attack based on your logic. The truth is that there is a massive cleansing taking place in what are the last days even as the Bible states would begin at the church.

It's the rich devil the enemy. He's only using the body of. Grist to fight itself publicly while he laughs at us . because the attacks were based on lies and sponsored propaganda . Jesus foretold a time will come ,those who persecute the church will feel they are doing God service .just like saul

John 16:2 (KJV)
. . . ,yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Paul's quote was not referring to the tithe as you fail to realise that they were other offerings the Levites received at the tabernacle. etc Meat offerings were part of offerings which when the priest ministered he ate from.. These were not tithes as some would like you to believe. The priest on the day who performed the ceremony ate from the sacrifice of his hands. You can go to a church today, be blessed by one of their pastors and sow a seed and guess who takes it all

Tithes and offerings were both collected and administered to by the priests for the work . And Paul said Christ has intructed same principle is applicable in the church .

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

So it will be hypocritical to say the passsge above is referring to offering only. Even if it's offerings only . Was not offerings under the law? If you support offering you can't cut out tithe .

And this is the law of the meat offering: the sons of Aaron shall offer it before the Lord , before the altar. And the remainder thereof shall Aaron and his sons eat: with unleavened bread shall it be eaten in the holy place; in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation they shall eat it.

I don't get your point . Tithes and offering were for the Levites and priests period. Because they serve full time in the sanctuary

Deuteronomy 18:1 (KJV)
The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the Lord made by fire, and his inheritance.

As I said, I'm more in house than any of you lot and would get you all a top seat at any event irrespective of the church including the one you made mention of in your statement. Get you to join the GO for refreshments after service etc. That's the level we speak of here. The reason I brought that up was to show you I know what's happening, I'm at the top of the field and for you to be aware it is a scam of your finances. Before you come here and start ranting, firstly you couldn't have access to a Reinhard, Chris , Hinn, Joyce, Oyedepo, creflo etc at the touch of a bottom, so I know what I'm saying.

Your claim is very doubtful . Even if there is any element of truth that you had the privilege to meet them . What's the big deal ? That doesn't justify your claim that the church is fraud . Judas was close to christ and did worse . Meeting them doesn't make you head of administration of Christianity in Nigeria

The tithe fed a 12th God or a whole tribe.. your tithe doesn't feed a 12th of your congregation.

Tithe is not for congregation. But for the work of God and welfare of those who work full time there. Congregation are to work and give to God offerings ,tithes and other seed

Abraham Tithed once and he was already super rich.

That's was only the one recorded and if he could be diligent enough to pay tithe of war booty he's diligent enough to pay tithe regularly as a lifestyle

The eleven tribes of Israel minus the Levites which makes twelve were all given lands as inherited and told to tithe from it go feed the Levites. So out of the twelve tribes, one did not get any land and the others were to continually tithe off it to feed the Levites. POINT IS YOU WERE NOT GIVEN ANY LAND

Most pastors are volunteers . They have their jobs in banks and oil Companies or businesses . They don't get support from church money . They rather spend of their Ken wealth into the work . It's only church staff or any pastor who has been asked to resign his job for full time ministry that get paid . Even the salary is mostly little allowance . I read on Nairaland of a redeem pastor earning 15,000 . He will give tithe out of it and give offeting out of it. We have wrongly represented the faithful Labour of pastors on Nairaland without proper information. That's a sin. Thses are men praying and fasting for the congregation and nation .

Circumcision was a seal of an act of faith and yet it was done away with..it also came.before the law.

The Sabbath was before the law and actually before anything .. PART OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, JUST SAYING.

Clean and unclean were before the law and revealed to Noah in ex 7 & 8. This also came up in the law.

Burnt offerings which are not to be confused with sin or trespass offerings were before the law and also part of the law.

The church is being shaken and cleansed ...

They were types and shadows of christ . What christ has fulfilled is not applicable .

Maximus82:
Abraham on record tithed once..

That's the one on record. That doesn't mean he only tithed once. All the things Jesus did were not written either.

[quoted]The Israelites on the other hand Tithed continuously to feed the tribe that got nothing.[/quote]You can call them a trible from carnal perspective. They are ministers of the sanctuary from Gods perspective.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Notice the tithe fed a 12th of God or one whole tribe.. tithes from your church do not feed a 12th of it. It wasn't created for such silly use as we see today.

What is the silly use. Tithe is still being used for the work in Gods house to maintain ,pay bills ,rent and for welfare of those who work full time in the house of God

ichuka:
What do you mean by seed of Abraham?
So if we are justify by faith we are Abraham seed and not Christ seed?

Christ is seed of Abraham

MuttleyLaff:
If as you say "tithe is one of our smallest giving" sic, what are the examples or list of the remaining other smallest giving please?

People do give seeds as they are led. Which is higher than tithe. Lands , cars . Also . In some churches like ours we do give partnership . For several ministry work , Tv programmes , satellite , radio , prison , hospital , Innercity for the less privilege motherless , scholarship etc . On monthly bases . These are far more than tithe . Someone once gave me a brand new Prado . I only used it for few months and dropped it at seed. Pls this is not self Glory . My elder brother gave me a 4runner last year . But by august i gave it as a seed . I’m using one old jalopy now without a/c. . This has happened often .

You probably read about someone gave 100 million dollar or so for loveworld USA . When Benny Hinn was trying to raise donation .Some even gave higher later. When someone lives a life of giving , tithe is a small thing . The biggest giving are the seed . Someone single handedly built a winner chapel church with billions . Sometimes in sowing seed a man may even empty his account as he is led . So to say somebody want to deliver sheep from 10% because that’s what makes pastors rich is laughable . Tithes and offerings belong to church . Pastors money comes from gifts . Especially if he has spiritual gift like healing , prophecy , miracles . Those who get Blessed will appreciate who had blessed them .

luckyCO:
Or are you saying that everything Abraham did we should copy because he did under grace since we are now following Abraham?

Abraham was not under the law . He was called father of faith . He was justified by faith . Every one who received justification by faith is called seed of Abraham

Galatians 3:7-8
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Is Christ not the one that said new law he is giving us to Love God will all our mind and soul and love our neighbour as ourselves. That in that their is no Judgement but have moved from death to life.

Yes he is

luckyCO:
Really am not getting something here. You mean Abraham is not under old testament?

The Sinai covenant is what is referred to as Old covenant or testament .

Exodus 24:7-8
7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. 8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

Hebrews 9:18-19
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

^^^^^^^
His asiri has tuud

SIRmanjar:
Op you sure say you well so?Is pastor Chris the ugly governor of Edo?Abi na im be minister of works?

NICE QUESTION

Maximus82:
95% if global Christians haven't heard of him.

wrong assumption. deeper life is a global church . They have branches from the largest cities of the world to the smallest NGWA village

PaChukwudi44:
As long as the early church never tithed we are not also required to practise tithing

as long AS THERE IS a high priest we are required to tithe

Maximus82:
Sorry to burst your bubble but Kumuyi is really small on the global scale. On the international scene, pastor Ayo, bishop oyedepo and pastor Chris are on top. As I said, I'm fully in house. Pastor Kumuyi cannot enter a room where the main figureheads in Pentecostals Christianity reigns. He is a good guy but he is low on the parking order of international Pentecostalism if I can use this term.

that is a carnal assessment. you don't rate ministers . its only god who has the scale based on callings. well thats your view and opinion anyway and you're entitled to it. but if you have to deal with facts and statistics you cant call Kumuyi small. he has one of the largest followership in the world .

salvation101:
i wished to be proved wrong. Wat scripture was used by the early church even according to the new testament

its the torah of course. paul even quote the law to them gentiles sometimes. the content of the law has godly principle . its only wrong to seek righteousness through the law . it came as gift . thats all . every condemnation of the law has to do with seeking justification by it

Maximus82:
Many other things came before the law and were also mentioned in the law or polished in the law. These other practices are all done away with and are classed as part of the law even though they also came before the law. The same way Christians religiously circumcise their sons even though it is of no use under the New Testament, is the same way people religiously tithe.

. CLEAN AND UNCLEAN beast (Before the law GEN 7:2 & GEN 8:20 in the law LEV 11)

• Genesis 7:2 (KJV)
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
• Genesis 8:20 (KJV)
20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
• Leviticus 11:2 (KJV)
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.


B. CIRCUMCISION: (Before the law GEN 21:1-4, in the law LEV 12:3)

• Genesis 21:4 (KJV)
4 And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him.
• Leviticus 12:2 (KJV)
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.
• Leviticus 12:3 (KJV)
3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.


C. BURNT OFFERINGS/ NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH SIN OR TRESSPASS OFFERINGS: (Before the law GEN 8:20, In the law EX 20:24 & LEV 1:10-11)

• Genesis 8:20 (KJV)
20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
• Exodus 20:24 (KJV)
24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.
• Exodus 18:12 (KJV)
12 And Jethro, Moses' father in law, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God: and Aaron came, and all the elders of Israel, to eat bread with Moses' father in law before God.

firstly what you should think about is the significance of the things and ordinance you mentions. There are types and shadow of christ in the bible . we must know the difference between what christ has fulfilled and what is applicable . Burn offerings ,circumsicion are fulfilled in christ .The kingdom of God runs on spiritual principles . some kingdom principles are revealed or polished in the law as you stated. we still do them ,not because the law says so but because they are principles . Principles transcend dispensations.

to your other points you raised of notable people who tithe, I can mention quite a few who I actually know. Your top shots accross the world do not tithe and they are but a handful of tithers when it comes to the super rich. You cannot make a doctrine out of such invalid stats. It's like saying we should be born again because a Hollywood star is. Truth is they are about 3000 Hollywood stars who aren't saved. When it comes to prospering there is one simple God given principle.

Far from it . we are not in competition with the world. YOUR success in life is fulfilling destiny either with the peasant or kings

view conveys the message that tithing and other forms of extreme giving guarantee huge returns. The only person guaranteed a return in the prosperity doctrine is the preacher

the giver receives , thats scripture

The Bible clearly says that a man diligent in what he does, he ends up before great men (PROV 22:29). God blesses the works of our hands and that which he has called us to. Our diligence opens doors. The richest people on earth are not your tithers etc but those who are masters in their fields.

Sure ,some truth there

I don't want to sound rude, but the people you see on TV, I hang out with them. The mega preachers you rant on about, I speak to them almost weekly, but sadly it's a scam when it comes to finances. I'm talking of your mega preachers you all watch on satellite or cable TV, depending on what you call it down there. That's why I'm sad with sheeple. They are times I'm in a place and I hear sheeple defending people they don't know etc and their only view on the person they are defending is from a media source i.e TV etc. Let's face it, these are media ministries and the media are more than capable of pushing views they want seen out. Apart from Reinhard Bonnke, most of the rest are there for money and nothing else. How do I know, I work with them but sadly your programmed minds won't even let you receive that.

Thats you opinion. So Kumuyi and the rest are stealing. you're not only rude and wrong. you're sinning. because its God who sees everyman motive and intention. he's the righteous judge . There could be fale ministers but its not you or you measure of judgement that will determine that. jesus was see as false by some . you see from the color of your glass. the fact that someone may be false does not nullify principle. even if a pastor steal money . does that make giving to god invalid?. Dealing with a mans error id different from dealing with a principle. if past administration misuse our taxes , does that make taxation wrong ?

you ever asked yourself who Jacob tithes to? Think on that one.

its not who he paid to that counts but that tithing still runs in his generation.

otr1:
So the most important laws that Pastors preach about these days are those pertaining to giving and money?

Not true pastors are not preaching law. they teach the whole counsel of the word of God . salvation,holy spirit ,speaking in tongues,prayers,righteousness,evangelism. how come you didnt mention all these? you are the one dwelling on money .

happens to the law concerning Sabbath. As far as I'm concerned, this was instituted at the 7th day of creation, yet we hear pastors preaching this law has been nailed to the cross (I wonder how a part of the moral can be nailed to the cross).

sabbath is shadow . christ is sabbath

point of correction, tithing laws didn't preceed the moral laws (ten commandments). What happened at Sinai was just a reminder (you can read up the verses). People have always known that killing, adultery, theft, worshipping images, profaning the Sabbath, etc, are sins. The moral laws of God is as old as sin itself (without the law, there is no sin, right?). What's new is the ceremonial laws which pertains to festivals, rites, first fruits, etc. All the mandatory givings are under this ceremonial laws.

i said this many times , principles in the kingdom of God existed before the law and in the law. prayer ,fasting, offering ,tithe ,almsgiving ,worship etc are all eternal why do you do all these and its only tithe you single out nit to do? thats the question

not aware of anyone in the New Testament paying tithes as it was done under the old covenant.

its not about how it was done. Abel gave first fruit ,God told isreal to give first fruit because they came out of slavery.but Abel did not come out of slavery . first fruit ,first born all belong to God. because he's alpha. its not the HOW that counts but the WHAT. the offering structure or tithe structure may differ but the important thing is that tithes and offerings are principles in Gods kingdom

we had was believers giving according to their capabilities (may be more than a tenth)

of course some honest saints see tithe as a limitation and thats the problem they have with the legalism. my own is if God hasn't stopped tithe . we must keep giving tithe . it does not stop us from giving more for other things

and how it was spent, was not at the discretion of one G.O. And it's on record that it wasn't all money. They used the proceed to assist believers who were lacking.

there are different kings of givings or collections in the bible ,thats only one of them

do we have today? Pastors flying jets while church members go to bed empty stomach.

thats not true. how many members go to bed on empty stomach? are you saying the God they serve and pray to does not answer prayer? we should not rubbish the word of God because we don't want to give him his tithe, God promise those who give to receive.

OK to pay tithes, but it should also be made clear that tithers may not necessarily make heaven.

im not aware any preacher connects tithes to heaven

brocab:
So you are allowing the bible speak for itself-and then you decide to add and remove the written Word of God, you claim in your bible it actually say's Caesar demands taxes, and Jesus demands tithes and offerings?
Typical, it's easy for you to add and remove words, when it isn't scriptural to do so, it's a common thing with Catholic's.
The bible is speaking to those who are hearing, and you aren't hearing..
{Matthew 22:17-22} Tell us therefore what do you think, is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?
And Jesus perceived there wickedness, and said: why do you test Me, you hypocrites?
Show Me the tax money."
So they brought to Him a denarius.
And He said to them, whose IMAGE and INSCRIPTION is this?
And they said to Him Caesar's.
And He said: to them render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's {The coin} and to God, the things that are God's {The people} When they heard this they walked away.
Like you said: let the bible speak for itself...

Did he say people ? He said “THINGS” that belong to God . Which are tithes and offerings .let me show it to you in other translation bro.

Matthew 22:21 (HCSB Free)
21 “Caesar’s,” they said to Him.
Then He said to them, “Therefore give back to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

Mark 12:17 (WNT)
17 "What is Caesar's," replied Jesus, "pay to Caesar--and what is God's, pay to God." And they wondered exceedingly at Him.

What do you pay to God ? Tithes

plainbibletruth:
I see you're digging in on your position on Abraham. It's your last card since I have a feeling you're clear on what the Mosaic Law prescribed

mosaic law in what sense

You mentioned "redemption". My question is "redemption" of WHAT? Is the redemption the tithe or as a result of inability to fulfil the PRIMARY requirements of the tithe law?

God only use agricultural terms because they were primarily a nation of farmers. its like fulani being synonymous with cow. they could pay dowry with it. money is anything you call money, its a matter of choice .People could give money as tithe of income. People gave animals but God doesn't accept unclean animals. so they give money in replacement.

, the bottom line is this: If TITHING, a thing not regarded by the Lord Jesus as weightier matter

i agree.

were to be required of the Christian as you tithe advocates claim then the EPISTLES will say so.

Unfortunately, the evidence from the early Church life, from the book of Acts and the epistles, for starters, DOES NOT stack up in your favour.

That is why you guys keep going BACK IN HISTORY.

The Church is UNIQUE. The Church is not pre-law. The Church is not under the Law. The Church was a mystery now revealed. ANY "PRINCIPLE" required for the Church has been revealed IN the Church and THROUGH the Church by means of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

the early church through the epistles didn't set out to write new law. there was already a law,you would find Paul quoting from the law sometimes. The epistles were results of problems which arose. all human problems were not recorded in the epistles. but they were recorded in the law. lets take incest for example. I'm sure you will agree with me that its wrong to marry your younger sister. But there is no place in the epistles that its wrong except in the law. Should i commit incest now just because its in the law? and I'm not under the law and not stated in the epistles and the early church didn't condemn it? thats same when we hide between the walls of silent areas. if the church had any thing against the tithe it should have been stated. if theres no statement against it. just like incest . we maintain the status quo