₦airaland Forum

OkaiCorne:
Let's be clear on something, Jesus came to fulfill the Law, not to abolish it...hence your questions holds no water.

There were modifications in the new covenant. The Old covenant is expected to be a shadow of the new covenant which states

1) Love God with all your heart, soul and might

2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

Animal Sacrifices have no hold in an upgraded covenant...but why is tithing still applicable to both covenant? Are you implying that is nothing better in the new covenant that replaces tithing?

If you insist tithing is valid, are Christians even tithing in the format God clearly spelt out in the Bible?

Please answer my questions and the ones I asked here. THANK YOU

When you answer I will

pussygotlips:
something tells me Chris dey kpash sinaj toto,
guys wetin una think?

We think you are silly . What do you think ?

OkaiCorne:
The root cause of this tithe debate is money. If everyone is truly focused on Jesus, we won't be having this "tithe" controversy.

By the way, help me answer these questions;

1) If everyone stopped giving tithes and offering would the church shut down?

2) Did God use money (especially tithes) to create the Heavens and the Earth?

3) Is God limited to money?

You're yet to answer me.

Do you now condemn every content of the law? Now you can commit murder? Do you give offerings? Do you do alms to the poor?

plainbibletruth:
Kindly CLEARLY show us from the Bible where "Tithes" are said to apply to the dispensation of the church.

Is there any scripture that tells the church that marrying your sibling is a sin?

Now you are doing what you'll quickly blame others for!

I said he shot his doctrine not his FOOT.

No one is implying that because Jesus lived under a different dispensation there is nothing there for the Christian to learn from. Rightly dividing the word of truth is still very key

Same way Malachi was a prophet who's message warns on the importance of tithe

Again,Kindly CLEARLY show us where "Tithes" are said to apply to the dispensation of the church

1cor9:14-15

Where did the Bible say so?

Where did the Bible say otherwise ? God never gave alternative . So the principle remains

Where did the Bible say so?

He walked by faith . God gave him revelations and principles . God revealed the principle of tithing through him . And he passed it to his household and generation . And a God testified of him that he trust Abraham to pass on what he had learned from God .

On what basis did they do that? On the basis of Abrahamic "eternal principle" tithing or on the basis of the COMMAND in the Law?

We could have also said the whole of the Israelites gave tithes in Abraham as well

OkaiCorne:
ISN'T IT FUNNY HOW CHRISTIANS CLAIM JESUS HAS FULFILLED THE LAW...EXCEPT FOR THE ONE THAT HAS TO DO WITH TITHING BECAUSE MONEY IS INVOLVED

Now you can commit murder? Do you give offerings? Do you do alms to the poor? Is that not contradictory ?
Without the knowledge of the law there will be lawlessness

Mammon must be dethroned so that Christ can take His rightful place in the Hearts of all believers

But those who have problem with giving that need to hear that not the givers

bloodofthelamb:
YOU DON'T GET IT. THERE IS NO LAW BINDING A SPIRIT FILLED BELIEVER... WE DON'T NEED A LAW TO MAKE US LIVE AND ACT RIGHT.

A SPIRIT FILLED BELIEVER NATURAL AND EFFORTLESSLY DO WHAT IS RIGHT, BECAUSE IT IS HIS/HER NATURE...

Can you honestly answer me this question : is incest a sin ? If it is what make it so?

It is scriptural to lay hands on people . Ministers should stop criticizing the church in public forum . If there anything you’re not clear about ask .

Hebrews 6:2 (AMPC)
2 With teachings about purifying, the laying on of hands,

Acts 9:12 (AMPC)
12 And he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias enter and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.

Anyone who works miracles can not criticize laying hands

Goshen360:
YOU, are in the major front promoting false tithing doctrine to Christians here and I'm here challengin YOU with scriptures. You have said too many things which are NOT consistent in this tithe topic. It shows you're lying and twisting scriptures to interpret out of context.

Stop getting petty and personal just go to the scripture and prove your point . Deal with topic .

From tithing is eternal principles to law tithing to because we're seed of Abraham to God use it to pay for rent, chair, air conditioning etc.....which one exactly is it? Which principle? Did God forgot to tell us to tithe according to principles or according to what's written? Btw, you can't justify tithe by any means especially those lines of Abraham seed?

Tithes , offerings , fasting , prayers , alms , Justice etc will all be principles across dispensations

2. Malachi was a prophet UNDER THE DISPENSATION OF THE LAW just as Jesus was a prophet under the law too

You have even answered yourself . That means you should never quote jesus again . You just shot your doctrine in the foot there

So what's your point? Are Christians under the dispensation of the law of Moses or Grace of Christ?

There are principles before the law . There are principles in the law . They are kingdom principles

[3. Abraham tithe to Melchizedek and that's not transferred to Christians TO CONTINUE TO TITHE

Where did the Bible say so. Tithing has no end just as offering .

b. Faith NOT tithe is what scriptures says connect us and Abraham TO OR WITH CHRIST.

Tithe was part of his life of faith .

c. Abraham PAID tithe to Melchizedek and if we go by your message/logic of we being Abraham seed. It means when Abraham paid tithe to Melchizedek, we IN HIM ALSO PAID OR HAVE PAID TITHE to Melchizedek. Hebrews 7vs9

But Levite who paid tithe in Abraham still paid tithe of tithe.

bloodofthelamb:
WHO MADE THAT LAW?

WHY DID THE HOLY SPIRIT OMIT SUCH AN IMPORTANT DOCTRINE, THAT WILL KEEP AWAY THE DEVOURER AWAY FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT OF GRACE?

There is no new Bible for the church . They had the Torah . They only interpret it. Why was paul quoting Torah ? Secondly according to you does it mean anything not in the epistle is not aoplicable
What of incest? Can a brother marry his sibling since the New Testament scriptures didn’t do a doctrine on it

OkaiCorne:
Should I neglect weightier matters at the expense of tithing?

No , you do all . Give tithes , give offerings , give alms , honor your parents , do justice .

Goshen360:
I thought you're tithing according to Abraham example

We tithe because it’s a principle .

You see how you quickly run to the law

Malachi is not Law. He’s Gods Prophet just like Abraham , Enoch , Elijah . Prophets have the oracle of God .

to justify tithe yahoo?

That’s very irreverent . That’s how you despised Abraham tithe and called it common tax to an earthly king.

PaChukwudi44:
that is a personal vow by Jacob.I can also say God when you give me N30 Billion in my account,i will give you 10%.It means I will have to wait until I get the request before paying

The only reason it won’t fit is that . He also said God will be his God .

Genesis 28:21-22
. . .then shall the Lord be my God: 22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Question was not God his God before ? He was only reforming his commitment to the God he serves . Same thing goes for the tithe . It was already a way of life . It’s like saying “GOD IF I YOU DELIVER ME FROM TBIS PROBLEM I WILL SERVE YOU FOREVER . But you will still serve him even if he didn’t

OkaiCorne:
Certain people would have said Martin Luther is the Devil for trying to break out of the Catholic Church. It baffles me when people mistake traditions for the TRUTH.

If Martin Luther had chickened out, we'll be doing worse than tithing. Actually we'll be paying money (penance) for the forgiveness of our sins!

History never forgets. That you practice a tradition all your life never makes it the TRUTH!

You made a good point and I agree with that . Let truth preveail

Let me get this clear,

1) Does "tithing" carry more weight than giving to the poor and less privileged?

There is no comparison .There are different kinds of givings with different kinds of blessing . For example the law says to live long take care of your parents . It’s a principle . It goes beyond the law . Same as tithing .

_

2) If we insist on tithing, why is the emphasis on 10% and not the specified methods laid out in the TORAH i.e. through foodstuffs and livestock?

It pre existed the law . Abraham tithe to melchi was not food stuff .It can be food it can be livestock’s it’s a choice

I CAN SENSE FEAR HERE. [color=#990000]So you Christians actually limit the ability of God to tithe money? Is God limited to money? Are Christians worshiping God or mammon?

It doesn’t have to be money . If I receive 10 cars I can give one of money equivalent

WHY IS GOD CALLED JEHOVAH JIREH, YET CHRISTIANS ARE PURSUING TITHES THINKING GOD IS LIMITED TO MONEY!

You said so . Tithes is to worship God as well as offering and as well as prayer , fasting which one is pursuing God ?

My giving is done in line with Directions from the Holy Spirit FIRST...and not the sweet mouth of a Pastorpreneur.

The Holy Spirit can say 100% now...and say nothing the following month. I won't question Him

That’s a free will offering . Its nothing new . It’s in the Old Testament too.

After the Holy Spirit...then comes the teachings of Jesus as my basis.

Jesus says to tithe .

analize701:
Let me ask you this, Is Tithing part of the law? I mean did it originate with the Law?

Good question . Another one is offering .

PaChukwudi44:
that verse you quoted has got nothing to do with tithe!!!!

What does it have anything to do with

Paul himself who wrote that epistle never received tithes from anyone

Tithe is given to God. The administration of it is different

2 Corinthians 9:7New International Version (NIV)
7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

That’s for collection for the saints

analize701:
Those who are against Tithe, whd wish Pastors carry out their work unaided.

That’s the enemy plan . Tithe is just a test run , they will come after offering then even church attendance claiming God is in your heart.

The Churches or Ministries who do not pay Tithes collects Hugh dues from their members, but because the tag, Tithing is not used, they join unbelievers to malign the Church.

There are genuine non tithers. And I respect their opinion . They are givers and they see 10% as a limitation . They give far more . But others are simply stingy people who want to excuse their stingy conscience . If you believe tithe is too legalistic simply give 30% case closed

analize701:
Why should you as a Christian pay Tithe?

Tithe was given for the work of God and for welfare of fultime ministers in the sanctuary . Paul says same applies to the chrcuh . As a command from christ

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? [b]Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospe[/b]l

spongeisback:
I am a child of Abraham. Dear pastors wait till I win a war then I will pay tithe like my father Abraham did. Amen. Genesis 14:18-20.....

That was only an aspect of Abraham tithing . That doesn’t mean he did it only once . Did Jacob fight a war to be a tither

Genesis 28:21-22
. . .all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Tithe is simply 10th of what God has blessed you with

WHO IS DADDY FREEZ TO TELL THE CHURCH OR PASTORS WHAT TO PREACH . I am not aware he is the God who called them into preaching

PaChukwudi44:
kindly provide proof

God says when you don’t tithe and give offerings you rob him

Malachi 3:8
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me.
But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee?
In tithes and offerings.

B

Kayus4real:
Is this what the history book called Bible, ask them to do?, where in
the history book have you seen Jesus or his prophet asking for
donations like this, where is the life of christ in this human called
prophet and pastors.

What’s the big deal about raising funds in church for a project There are several places all over the Bible where money was raised for projects

MOSES RAISED MONEY TO BUILD TABERNACLE OF WORDHIP
Exodus 25:1-2
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering.

DAVID RAISED MONEY TO BUILD TEMPLE OF WORSHIP
1Chronicles 29:6-7
6 Then the chief of the fathers and princes of the tribes of Israel, and the captains of thousands and of hundreds, with the rulers of the king's work, offered willingly, 7 And gave for the service of the house of God of gold five thousand talents and ten thousand drams, and of silver ten thousand talents, and of brass eighteen thousand talents, and one hundred thousand talents of iron.

It’s proper and not out of place for a pastor to raise money for projects as he is led or deem fit .

Yes of course Christians are supposed to pay tithes . Tithes and offerings are spiritual principles in worshiping God .

The word of God was for Both Jews and gentiles

Chicagoesontop:
Bros, you no go UNDERSTAND .. i have been legit since 2003 till now, i have and i do give to people, friends and family anytime the opportunity to do so knocks, but every man has his ups and downs sometimes because some days are like that ... On that particular day i don't have a dime in my pocket doesn't mean i don't work and have money to eat and put in my account or i don't send money to my family in Nigeria, Buhari newly stopped ATM CARDS from working in other countries that period, if not i could have gone to any ATM on that Sunday and withdraw money for myself, On most occasions after church service i myself meet people that begs me money for either transportation or to eat or to buy them soft drinks and i give them with love because it's a normal thing to do if you have, during that time i have 5 mouths that feeds from me daily, the reason why i even talked to that woman is because of my people at home who won't eat that day except i provide money for them to cook as usual and this has continued till now 7 people are currently feeding from me, no lacking .. so am not lazy as you assumed or pressumed .. Even that day i wore a designer suit to church maybe she thinks i appeared too rich to express myself that am hungry and needed help from her because of my cute dressing at that particular moment .. All am saying is many people give to the church for eye service so that the pastor will notice them, and they ignore that they have brethrens who they can also help in any atom of way they can because we are all in the house of God ..

Well for such exceptional case . If you’re a member . The best thing to do is meet those who know you not strangers . Your leaders . House fellowship leader or departmental leader and if such need to get to the pastor . Every church. Has a structure . People are careful of strangers these days . I personally don’t have problem with strangers but some do . We can’t blame them . Bad experience or tale from others

All ye attacker’s of church . Don’t just sit in your room tyiping what you have no knowledge about . Go on YouTube and see the realities and miracles of God

Chicagoesontop:
This Lady is Right.

For example one Sunday like that, as a street boy i no get food to eat at home after service, i dey H baad, i met one lady in her Range Rover 2017 model eating fried rice and Chicken from Eddies Burger package, i approached her and was trying to make her understand that am truly hungry, before i can open my mouth and say good dey ma please ...... she rolled her glass up and didn't mind me again. This alone made me to go home and lay my tummy on the floor and slept off without eating anything that day.

The next Sunday the pastor called on People who wants to donate $10.000 to the church for their new church building, i was surprised the same woman who can't even gave me 100 for bread and pure water was the 1st person to come out and collect an envelop to donate $10 grand ..

I just shook my head because i won't deny my faith ...

GO AND WORK!! And practice giving .

2 Thessalonians 3:10
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Why is the devil attacking the church from every side ? Is the church welfare organisation? The Bible says people should work .

The church primary work is to win the lost . Many people these days go from church to church begging for money . A whole compete human being will not go and look for work ?

2 Thessalonians 3:10
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

2 Thessalonians 3:12
12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

Mind you The church has being reaching out to the less privilege more than government . But it’s not the primary call of the church . The only people the the Bible allow the church to care for without working are old widows . Not even young widows . Even as at that they must have proven themselves in commitment to serve in the church . Every church has plan for the less privilege among them

. Most churches organize bsines seminars and empowerment programs even capital or loans . But these people who go from church to church waiting for the pastor to colledct money with different stories need to come out of lazines and go and find what to do . Every pastor know his comited member .

Tithes and offering are eternal principles . If tithe is wrong Offering giving should be wrong and almsgivimg should be wrong also . If the pastor preaches benefit of salivation is he forcing people? How come when he preaches benefit of tithing non givers will say he is forcing people?

THE ERROR OF DADDY FREEZE

It's laughable when some who don't study their bibles feel there is a hidden conspiracy about tithing in the church which pastors have been covering up. Daddy freeze claims that the Bible. Command tithes to be uses to drink beer. Firstly that's is insult to God and stupid .

Let me explain the manipulation and error of Daddy freeze here . He told a lie that tithe is to be given to the poor and to eat and drink that is error .

Tithe belong to God right right from the days of father Abraham who’s principle of faith we follow .

Under the law God still commanded isreal to give tithes and offerings. Which is used for the service of the house of God and welfare and support of workers and ministers there .


Leviticus 27:30.
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord.

Numbers 18:21-25
21 And, behold, I have given the Levites all the tithes in Israel for an inheritance in return for their service which they serve, the [menial] service of the Tent of Meeting.

After God Instructed them on the tithe to him through the levites , he asked the people to give another 10% to the poor every 3 years and another 10% for a love feast to eat and drink . That doesn’t replace the tithe to God. And that is the error and deception of daddy freeze . He didn’t mentioned the title to God and gave the impression that the other 10% for feast and for the poor were the same. .

As much as we are not tithing based on the law. We tithe based on Abrahamic revelation . However the explanation here is to throw light on the misrepresentation by daddy freeze .


THERE WERE THREE DIFFERENT KINDS OF TITHES

There were three different kinds of tithes in the Bible . Daddy freeze dwell on a minor one to rubbish the major one .

The three different types are as follows:

1. THE LEVITICAL TITHE (sacred to God).

Leviticus 27:30
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord

This tithe is used for the work of service in the place of worship and also for the welfare of the workers there.

Numbers 18:21-25
21 And, behold, I have given the Levites all the tithes in Israel for an inheritance in return for their service which they serve, the [menial] service of the Tent of Meeting.


2. THE TITHE OF THE FEAST (Deut. 14:22-27).(daddy freeze beer boozing tithe )
Deuteronomy 14:22-23
Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.


3. THE TITHE FOR THE POOR (Deut. 14:28, 29). (Every 3 years)
This is done once in very 3 years . It is shared among the poor . While the main annual tithe still runs .

Deuteronomy 14:28-29
At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest

The first tithe, the one we trace back to Abra­ham (Gen. 14:18-20), is the sacred tithe, given to the Levites and priests for their service to the temple and the congregation in the Old Testa­ment. This is the tithe we continue to give under the priesthood of Melchizedek in the New Testa­ment. It is the tithe consecrated to God and the furtherance of the gospel and has, therefore, validity for all believers in Christ.

Paul was clear enough .

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel

Now some may say Paul didn't accept support . That's no big deal . He didn't accept support in Corinth because of their carnality . But he accepted support from some other churches . Same goes for pastors today . Most pastors serve voluntarily. They don't receive support . Over 9% of pastors in Deeper life ,Redeem ,CEC, winners are serving voluntarily. They have their own jobs . In fact one of the criterial by which you are sent out is to first have a good job . Except only few who may be required to serve full time and they may have to resign from their job. To get support from church . Church tithe is used to pay workers , church rent , maintainance , equipment ,projects , generator fuel. Chair hire etc and other expenditures. The pastor is not the owner of church money . Every ministry has structure by which money is handled . A pastor in redeem cannot dip his hand into church account . There are approvals from head quarters for expenditure. Not what bloggers online post who don't even go to church

We are not giving tithes as commanded under the law . Our tithing dates to Abraham before the law came . And that it why the other kinds of tithes were not emphasized . So daddy freeze only dwell on the feast party which is not abrahamic . And antitithers are jumping up that they have a hero (who is not even a Christian )

plainbibletruth:
Presenting my case is what i've been doing and will continue to do. I only quoted what others have noticed about you.


Let me quote you on this:

You said that here: https://www.nairaland.com/4169634/error-daddy-freeze/9#62761959

It was only a response to a mocker who insults and that’s the only place . I usually ignore them .

Show me where I "condemn any thing just because it's contained in the Old Testament". ALL I've been saying is that the NEW SUPERCEDES the Old. Where anything in the Old whether directly or in a modified form is to be in the NEW it will be clearly seen.

God didn’t create a new bible for The church . Everything was based on the old . If paul condemn homosexuality it’s because it’s against the law.

Were details of the New Covenant revealed in the Old Testament? NO! That is why Paul said it was a "mystery". BUT

because you guys need something to justify your monetary tithing for today, you want to give the OLD the position it does not have today.

It’s rather you guys who try to ascribe To the new what it’s not and try to take advantage of silent areas of scriptures
God never at anytime ended tithing nor condemns tithing OT offering

You don't have the right to determine which part of the O.T. is done away with or not;

But that’s precisely what your are doing . What christ fulfilled is clear . If God hadn’t given a contrary instruction or principle we have no such right . You can’t pick one aspect to condemn

the Holy Spirit already did through the Apostles.

But same Apostle wrote 1cor 9:14-15

It is MANDATORY or COERCED TITHING that we condemn.

Pls kindly let’s avoid the use of the word mandatory “ because it’s too strong . Tithing and offerings are necessity just as prayer and fasting and honoring your parents

Why? Because the NEW has replaced it with freewill giving.

It’s your theology Where did the Bible say so ? Secondly freewill offering was part of the law .

The current issue happens to be tithing. If other matters that require attention come up we'll surely give our inputs.

It will be very unfair and if I may say “unrighteous
For us to avoid answering the question raised if we are really as sincerely seeking truth . Except we are just debating for the fun of it which will be wary of time and data. I feel you already know the point I am driving at and it’s probabky giving you some conviction . Because answering the question will probably demolish what position you hold .

Where are the doubters ? . Nigeria is so blessed but Nigerians don’t value what they have

Grace001:
, I doubt that the practice was followed by the apostles.

It’s your assumption

Nowhere in The NT do we read about the apostles either preaching tithing, or practicing it.

There are indicationsor parallel principle like 1cor9:14-15 . Even if there is non. Has God mind changed about incest because the apostles didn’t preach it . Can a brother marry his sister now?

Tithing was never practiced by the early church.The great apostle Paul even while spreading the Gospel from country to country actually fended for himself (1 thes 2:9,2 thes 3:7-10)

If you study well , you will hear paul say that he was actually entitled for welfare . Which he did in other places except Corinth

The early Christians freely sold their possessions and laid them at the Apostles feet Acts 2:45, it didn't say 10 %

Nice , but it’s not a new tesstament. Thing many did so under the Old Testament . Offering is offering tithe is tithe , alms giving is almsgivinhg free will giving is free will giving either under the old or new

There is no record in the new testament where any of these great apostles paid tithes. I challenge YOU with any contrary opinion to quote any line of the NEW TESTAMENT TO PROVE THAT THE APOSTLES PAID TITHES. How come the NT didn't talked about it among the important things these great apostles want us to emulate from them as a Christians.

Is incest still a sin ? I challenge you to show me in the epistles

You guys are manipulators.

While you guys are robbers