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Royal-VII:
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Exactly.....


You have literally nothing to add or say...Just walk away LoL

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Royal-VII:
See how you lose debates constantly on this forum and take things out of context....LmL

I slay each silly quote one by one....

Number 1 Royal,



ghet·to
   [get-oh] Show IPA
noun, plural ghet·tos, ghet·toes.
1.
a section of a city, especially a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority group, often as a result of social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships.

a : an isolated group <a geriatric ghetto> b : a situation that resembles a ghetto especially in conferring inferior status or limiting opportunity <the pink-collar ghetto>


Stop Creating "your own" definition of the word ghetto when i clearly post the definition multiple times as i have above in this thread.. LmL


Here is the Definition of Culture

a : the integrated pattern of human behavior that includes thought, speech, action, and artifacts and depends upon the human capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group

You really think the definition of "ghetto" above allows one to reasonably define a "culture" as ghetto?

You are comparing random american "crimes" to African Traditional Cultural Rituals ....

How are they "random"?

Why did the Milwaukee Cannibal happen in America and many similar crimes happen in America and not in Sri Lanka? Why not in Taiwan? Why not in Malaysia?

Why was a young psychopathic man able to stockpile an armory easily in America but not some other country?

Why do young American mothers keep drowning babies, but this isn't happening in certain other countries so frequently?

It is part of some backwards african cultures to Cut Off Heads

I'm glad you used the word some. It shows there's some hope.

Now not everybody who gets their head chopped off is innocent - I hope you know that. When it happens to an innocent child, people are outraged and it's not seen as normal. There are some cultures where even beheading criminals would probably be seen as barbaric, although there are are some cultures in the Middle east that punish people by whipping them or stoning women to death.

It is part of some backwards african cultures to slaughter kill and maim Albinos

Some cultures practiced that in the past, and some cultures did the exact opposite - albinos were treated normally. For example, in the Yoruba culture (I have read about this, I remember the specific quote), in the past, albinos were treated normally.

It is part of some backwards african cultures to Rappe Virgin when when you have Aids...

That is really from traditional culture to you? Is AIDS even part of traditional African cultures? This is just dumb and uneducated illiterates thinking they can cure diseases using terrible/diabolical means. There are traditional medicines and healing practices in African cultures for curing diseases and I haven't seen healing methods for diseases that involve violating virgins.

It is Part of some backwards african cultures to kill gay people and slaughter them like animals

Well, this is where I would disagree. I had an argument with another poster (Sagamite) a while back about how there was in fact pre-colonial homosexuality in a few cultures in Africa that was seen as normal, but he was never able to show me instances of gays being killed for being gay in Africa in precolonial times:

https://www.nairaland.com/593966/uganda-gay-rights-activist-david/33#7656872

https://www.nairaland.com/593966/uganda-gay-rights-activist-david/36#7675227

Apart from Muslims - which are all over the world, not just in Africa - I would actually attribute the hatred of gays to the point of killing them to the influence of Christianity in Africa. In fact, violence against gays happens all the time in the Western world, which surprise surprise, is mostly Christian.

Killing gays is not exclusive to Africa and I would view the trend of killing them as something more recent (though it could have happened in the past in some cultures).

It is part of some backwards african cultures to Mutilate young women vaginall organs as part of a "traditional" cultural belief

Once again, I'm glad you had the sense to use the word "some". It happens in Eritrea, Ethiopia, and multiple other places in Africa, just as it happens in India, but it is not universal. The belief is that it reduces promiscuity and the act is indeed wrong and the belief is ignorant, but it is not universal or exclusive to Africans.

Key Word..."Culture"....We are discussing "cultures" not random crimes....Your "Culture" is backwards and beyond "Ghetto"....

You understand the difference ?....Good

Keyword.."Culture"

I understand "culture" just fine, but I don't think these "random" crimes are really as random as you think they are.

The op blamed rap music....And You blame "westernized" culture for having a negative impact on your already incredibly backwards beliefs.....

Well I'm not sure the OP "blamed" rap music itself.

And I didn't blame anyone, I said where certain behaviors/phenomena were more likely to arise. I could equally argue that certain other behaviors (bad or good) would be more likely to arise in non-westernized areas. It wouldn't amount to "blaming" those non-westernized areas if I were to do so.

I mentioned Jeffrey Dahmer and the man who recently ate another man's face off in Miami, but there are other gruesome crimes one can point to that happened even more recently:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/06/carl-jacquneaux-bit-a-chunk-of-victims-face_n_1574316.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/27/brandy-stevens-rosine-case-love-triangle_n_1711393.html


The point is, there isn't any reason to conflate the discussion the "ghetto culture" that was being discussed earlier with every instance of a psychopathic crime.


On cursing, this may be hard to believe, but even several decades ago in America - not to talk of the rest of the world, where some languages and groups have a more limited inventory of vulgarity (but still do have it) - cursing casually was not at all seen as normal or acceptable. You couldn't even get away with much cursing in movies. Now "oh sh1t" is hardly even cursing to some people and you can turn on Comedy Central and see a barrage of curses anytime you want.

Royal-VII:

This poor kid physics got one of the great debate thrashing of all time....


"RoyaL I didn't write that"...LoL

"it's already quoted fool"~~Royal....


....I was actually speaking about this to some offline west african friends of mine...and it is indeed true that...

West africans did not even smoke cigarettes or drank alcohol until the introduction of western rap music to the Africa shores...

...LmL..Fhuucking hilarious LmL

Royal,

We have different definitions of "ghetto culture". In your view anything that is violent or backwards seems to be ghetto culture - which is pretty all-encompassing, and should include all psychopathic killings like those in Norway or America. If we're going to talk about children being beheaded out of nowhere, we could also talk about the "Milwaukee Cannibal" or we could also talk about a man recently eating another man's face off in America, or a man recently shooting a pregnant woman and several other people in a theater in America for no reason, or a woman recently killing her daughter through negligence in America and getting off with only minimal jail time.

I haven't seen you apply your criteria for "ghetto culture" to America and the rest of the world like you have to Africa. India and parts of South America were also completely missing from your analysis. You mention civil wars, but Africans didn't invent the concept of civil wars nor are they exclusive to Africa - the Yugoslav civil war wasn't even that long ago. If anything, looking at the actual civil wars that have broken out in Africa, some of them (not all) couldn't have happened without screwed up borders drawn by westerners or crisis situations created indirectly by westerners. Making civil war of all things an inherent "ghetto" attribute of African cultures was just a bizarre argument.

I commented on those living in the water in Lagos in particular because you emphasized not once, but twice, their living on water in one of the main cities in Nigeria.

Now I never blamed rap music - it's not clear to me why you think I really have something against rap music. I merely tried to give the context for why people would be imitating the negative aspects of contemporary American rap in a city like Lagos (a more westernized place) than a place like some remote, less westernized village in another state.

bright007: Like I said earlier being ignorant of facts do not make them false.
There was no how the portuguese would have sold arms to d Binis without d Oba accepting d primary condition that they should accept christianity/western education.
Someone who travelled all d way to Portugal must have received western education.
I remember first reading this at John Harris Library in University of Benin.
Now I just stumbled on this again,pls go through and lear

What's wrong with you?

Stop trying to give me lectures on history you've read nothing about.

I don't get my history from summaries on random blogs. Read Alan Ryder's book Benin and the Europeans if you want to understand what went down between the Portuguese and Benin. That's a professional study that goes into far more detail than that blog.

And no, there was not really a "fort" at Ughoton, though there was a trading station, nor was there a school built in the palace. And what was written there about the desire for firearms only confirms my point earlier. As I said earlier, lots of meaningful commerce was carried on without western education.

For the last time, leave Benin history out of your pitiful trolling.

bright007: @physicsqed:Well in as much as u and d other guy ar derailing this thread,I âm learning from ur discussion.
But I beg to disagree with u on ur earlier post emphasising that the relationship resulting from d contact of the Portuguese with d Binis and other groups in pre-historic times was more or less the same.
Do u know dat
(1)Bini land was d first to be visited by d europeans(portuguese) as early as 1472.Ruy Sequeira in 1472 in Ewuare's reign and Affonso de Aviero in 1484 in Ozolua's reign
(2)The bini knigdom was also d first to in d Coast of West Africa to exchange ambassadors with å major european power(portuguese)
(3)At about 1535,some catholic Preists arrived Benin and set up å school with d permission of d Oba in his palace for d teaching of his sons and chiefs,and that it was from this school dat some Bini sons first converted to christianity.
if u read more about d contacts Bini had with d europeans in pre-historic times,u will agree dat they had more than just ån economic relation with d europeans.I even read that one of d Obas could speak portuguese fluently in d course of this relationship.

Number three is false as far as I can tell. There was no physical school set up in the palace (unless you have a source actually proving this) because all that has ever been discussed in different sources is Egharevba's claim about the Oba allowing a few churches to be built by the Portuguese in the city during the brief period when an attempt was made by the then Oba (Esigie) to Christianize Benin (so the Portuguese would agree to sell guns to Benin in large quantities, which didn't happen), and that some young boys were taught to read and write by a few missionaries in the palace, not that there was a whole school in the palace.

I never claimed that the relationship between the Binis and the Portuguese was the same as that of some other groups and the Portuguese. The fact that it was different was actually part of my point.

jantavanta: Everything you see in Europe has been built on Black People.
Ancient Black People had a global presence: Europe, Americas, Asia ,Australia, everywhere.
We were never objects of 'discovery' waiting to be 'discovered' by Mungo Park, Lander Brothers, etc.

The obfuscation of the Global Black Presence is a 200 year old conspiracy.
We need to understand that it was the whitening of Europe that led to the Transatlantic Slave Trade.
The complete whitening of Europe led to the Partition and Colonization of Africa.

There is no inferiority complex in knowing about our hidden global presence. It allows you see into the soul
of White People. We need to know where we are coming from......

Why would I want to see into the "soul of White People"? I don't care.

You sound like a very hardened conspiracy theory guy. What led you onto this path?

I also noticed that you didn't say whether you were raised in Europe or not.

Hey Royal, I'm done with topic for now. If you feel I got "slayed" in this "debate", fine. Later.

Royal-VII:
Lmfao@africans did not use vulgar language untill the introduction of western influence....Lmfao straight moronn

Well I honestly never said anything like this. It's just a matter of comprehension.

But repeated attempts from you to misrepresent my positions are why I want to "quit" like you expected. It's just a waste of time at this point.

Royal-VII:
What's even more apparently stupidd about your statement is...

The original Message in the Op's first Post...Blames the negatives on Hip Hop Culture...

He even engages in arguments with multiple people...

It's obvious who has the problem "comprehending"..

..Lmfao like i said..maybe it's genetics..maybe it's not..

based on this conversation...I am leaning towards it being the truth LoL

..Your culture is backwards ...Get over it..and stop blaming the west...

"Rap Music"...lmfao

It sounds like he's not blaming anybody but is actually just asking if it's due to those Africans copying the negative aspects of hip hop culture.

If you have a different interpretation, that's fine. I have my own, and like I said, we're probably not going to agree.

Royal-VII:

See this is the typical stupidity I am talking about...Maybe it's genetics..maybe it's not

Clearly you wrote this....



And all through out this thread...constantly "blaming western culture"...

Then after you get slayed in a debate..you backtrack and try to claim you did not say it..Lmfaoo

So you think stating that a phenomenon arises in certain areas that are characterized by a higher degree of western influence is equivalent to "blaming" the west?

If you don't understand something, simply ask for explanation, don't resort to needless insults. I never "blamed" the west for some young man in Lagos saying "nigga" - I explained why it would happen in a place like Lagos rather than say, a village in Benue state.

Like I said, let's just move on.

Royal-VII:
So they spoke Politely to the Slaved they Owned?...

Just off common knowledge of "people" and how human beings are...it is pretty logical that Africans have always used vulgar and abusive language towards each other as do every other group of people in this world

Cut this Angelic African Folktale...The truth is rooted in demonic behavior Far reaching any realms beyond "Angelic"..


....You still have yet to answer my question by the way Lmfao

Dude. This is becoming repetitive. You're completely missing what I was saying.

My view is that the perception of wayward behaviors emerging from slum areas in urban centers as normal and their perpetuation and toleration throughout societies is something I have difficulty seeing as indigenous to certain cultures around the world, not just African cultures.

If you disagree with that, fine. Let's just move on because were not going to agree.

Royal-VII:
So you want to sit here....and try to claim Africans did not use vulgar abusive language towards each other

..Yet......

[size=17pt]ENSLAVED EACH OTHER!....[/size]


...really?...LmL

I'm starting to think you have comprehension problems.

I asked you to prove that vulgar language was seen as normal in all African cultures - that the normality of it was in African cultures. You seem unwilling to do that.

Almost every other group (Europeans, Arabs, Asians, etc.) besides Africans had slavery of other members of the same group by the way. They just eliminated it earlier than most Africans.

Royal-VII:

Do we Blame Africa....Yes or no....

ANswer the question.....

you just set your own trap...which coincides with my entire point...LmL

do americans blame africans for masked gunman??

I've reread this thread, and I've yet to see where either pleep or myself "blamed" anybody.

Please explain how Americans could possibly blame Africans for a gunman dressing up like the Joker (a quintessentially American comic book villain), stockpiling heavy weapons easily due to the right to bear arms, and shooting a pregnant woman.

Royal,

If you really believe that some crass and abrasive language was accepted as normal in all African cultures prior to any western contact, why not just prove it?

Royal,

When a masked gunman shoots a pregnant woman in a theater for whatever reason, do we begin discussing the "cultural ghettoness" of the place that that person was in?

Or do we usually have enough sense to interpret that shocking act and many similar acts in that place as examples of individual evil?

Does either of us accept the shooting of pregnant women or the beheading of children as something that is seen as normal or something that is tolerated?

Royal-VII:
Yeah because "Vulgar" speech did not take place in africa prior to african's copying western rap music....

What are you talking about?

My post was quite clear - highly vulgar and crass speech becoming normal and being perceived as normal within a society is an aspect of the issue the OP was commenting on.

Any language can have curse/swear words - it's their use within and how they're perceived in a society that is relevant here.

Yeah your right fam...They were too busy cutting off heads...mutilating little girls vaginall areas and engaging in civil wars....

In your mind, if particular cultures harm women for whatever reason it is universal to Africans and the only interpretation of that behavior is as being culturally ghetto.

If heads are cut off for whatever reason, it is universal to Africans and is also due to cultural ghettoness.

If civil wars break out, it is universal to all African cultures and the civil wars can only be explained by cultural ghettoness.

I see where you're coming from now, but I can't really believe that this is your argument.

Royal-VII:

Only one issue is being discussed here..."Ghetto"....

Everything i posted Pertains to that.


You seem to do this allot when you fail at a debate on this forum...

You randomly talk about issues that do not pertain to the Topic and Subject....

The thread reads "is African Culture becoming Ghetto Culture" ...It is Laughable ...

Think about it...seriously...it is literally laughable, to any educated mind.

It's almost like saying "Is Fire Becoming to Flammable"....

Now if all of the cultures of Africa were "ghetto" before any western influence, why do you think the thread starter was bothered by certain dressing habits and the casual acceptance of highly crass and vulgar speech as normal?

According to you, he should be fine with these things since they were already characteristic of African cultures.

I think you and the OP should explain in detail where each of you is coming from and the rest of us should decide whose perception is more in line with reality.

anonymous6: I agree with you and understand what you are saying, can I ask, are you Nigerian?

Yeah.

Royal-VII:
LmL@the dude editing the post 3 different times...Lol


Answer the Question Brah...we already saw you how you failed on your understanding of what ghetto means

Now explain how the west has corrupted this..."Culture"..That was already beyond what would classify ghetto to begin with.

....

I edited it to add more information and change a few words. The actual meaning and message in the final edited post and the original post are actually identical, but I removed words that I thought might be offensive (such as describing the behavior I was talking about as "degenerate", not just wayward and unpleasant).

I understood the topic, and so did you, but now you're getting into arguments about semantics that I don't really care about.

If you really think that any and every kind of lifestyle that is financially poor results in the same kind of social behaviors, then I probably will never agree with you on this topic.

The townships of south Africa are a result of "social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships" from an earlier era and not surprisingly, there is some significant difference between the social behaviors coming from there and the social behaviors of some poor people living on stilt houses or using canoes in Lagos.

Royal, I think you're trying to be "clever by half" or being mischievous in pretending that you don't know what is meant by "ghetto culture", especially considering that you earlier claimed explicitly above that

There is no culture more ghetto in the entire world than the cultures that exist in Mother Africa.

(despite not being an expert on all of these cultures)

Now look again at the very literal and strict definition you posted of "ghetto" in your later comment.

There is no way, in light of that definition and that definition only, to really claim that a culture is ghetto. But you already did make that claim - so you acknowledged and were aware of what everybody else in this thread was talking about - the perpetuation, toleration, and the acceptance within a culture as even slightly normal of unpleasant and wayward social behaviors from the lower classes from slum areas in cities. That was what the thread starter was worried about - what would ordinarily be considered socially wayward behavior becoming more and more normal to people.

And no, actually I would disagree with the idea that these wayward social behaviors would have been seriously tolerated and treated as normal behaviors within the cultures prior to westernization because of what I've read about many of these cultures prior to westernization.

The rest of what you posted is rather irrelevant and seems like you're trying to go off into arguments about different issues that I never even brought up.

bright007: Simply because u are ignorant of those facts up there do not make them conjectures.Simply grow up and learn.
You don't where I âm from,so don't tell me to stop saying what I know about my history.

You already gave some information about where you're from - an Ika person living in Lagos.

1st, no school was built in the palace. That is not at all a fact. That's a conjecture from you that has no backing from anywhere else. I have read what was actually written about what was supposed to have been built in the city and it is not this.

2nd, the Oba of Benin went with Christianity at that time in order to try and get guns. Nothing lasting came of that though since the effort to proselytize failed so the Portuguese continued to hold out on the sale of significant amounts of cannon. The guns they did get were only a brief blessing and in one instance some people had to hijack a ship just to get cannon. Also, some Benin tradition holds that the attempt to Christianize caused a controversy among some nobles and palace officials that were opposed to it. So when the proselytizing effort died out soon after it began, nobody really missed it.

3rd, meaningful commerce went on throughout Benin's history without Christianity with a host of different foreign groups - Dutch, English, etc., not just the Portuguese, and without Western education. If you were not ignorant of what an ozedu of the palace was, you would understand why this was the case.

Tolaaaaannni: Same thing i said. And then i searched for it in the urban dictionary. Heres a link:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Nigret

lol, the example under the first definition is the funniest bit of racism I've come across in a while:

"Flonzel woke up in the hospital nigretting the way he acted towards those Police Officers."

Royal-VII:
Mouthafoukas living on water in their main city...calling "us culture" ghetto Lmfaoo

Hilarious....These snobbish nigerians need a reality check...LmL

There is no culture more ghetto in the entire world than the cultures that exist in Mother Africa.

Stop pretending.

Some of those people aren't actually Nigerians (some are from the Republic of Benin), but those that are Nigerians and those that aren't Nigerians aren't necessarily "ghetto" merely by living a poor lifestyle in the water. I'd compare them more to "swamp people" in Louisiana and Florida in the U.S. than to actual "ghetto" youths in a Brazilian favela or tsotsis in townships in South Africa.

So called "ghetto culture" mainly arises in westernized or semi-westernized, poor, urban areas.

bright007: Here u go again with another blunder.The Binis were actually d FIRST in present day nigeria to become christians and western education was first in introduced into Nigeria by d Portuguese who visited Benin in d second half of d 15th century.
According to Hubbard(1948).ťĥĕ second half of d 15th century saw d arrival of d Europeans in Benin,d portuguese.These visitors realised dat [size=14pt]in order to engage in meaningful commerce,d people had to be given some rudimentary education and christianity.[/size][/b]they thus regarded education as of fundamental importance to d spread of christianity.[b][size=14pt]So,at about 1535,some catholic Priests arrived Benin and set up å school with d permission of d Oba,in his palace[/size] for d teaching of his sons and his chiefs.It ŵăš through this medium dat some Benin sons were first converted to christianity.During this period,an ambassador was sent from Benin to Portugal.when he came back he could speak portuguese language fluently.
So don't come here blabbing because there were å lot of missions by d europeans that failed but it is d one dat succeeded dat we are talking about here.the 1841 mission was one of such failed missions as there was no evidence of christianity/formal education when Crowther and Co arrived.

Can you please keep the Binis and your conjectures about the Binis out of your trolling?

If you feel for whatever reason that you absolutely must troll and get a rise out of people, you should leave non-Ika, non-Igbo groups out of it.

jantavanta, were you raised in Europe?

This inferiority complex you've got - it's pretty bad.

antitpiah: Teenagers? I am talking about grown-ups . . . especially the so called Jambitos.

And these grown ups sag their pants as well?

antitpiah: Take a trip to Lagos, and then rethink your claim

Is this trend widespread in Lagos? Or just prevalent among some teenagers in some areas?

pleep: The words bitch & bastard have no positive connotation.

Tell that to female rappers.