₦airaland Forum

smile4kenn:
where is pilgim

My darling. . . I just dey kampe! Loads of things kept me busy all this while; but I'm grateful to be alive and still have some time for the Forum!

How body?

Merry Christmas. . . Happy New Year!

lawyer:
If the information is too confidential, why don't u guys send me a text msg on this number tonight 08077943514 so i'll know when to call u guys or probably meet una.

Kai! If na joke, stop am!! If them gals take style snatch you from me through texting, Lagos go change geography O!

Lol. . . good afternoon! How bodi!

Carlosein:
1. where did the catholic church teach that anyone not chanting ave maria is an infidel

Why did the same Catholic Church kill a poor school teacher for the simple 'crime' of having said: "Praise the Lord" instead of 'Ave Maria'?

@olabowale,

olabowale:
@Pilgrim.1: When I said the Bible, even though some of your Brothers, eg. Kokojunkie, I believed corrected me that OT is not the Bible. It is as if he said that NT is the Bible and OT is Tourat. I asked them to correct by Princess and the people that will make that mistake. But apparently, he has not done that, since you quoted OT and tagged it as from the Bible. When mentioned the Bible in my response to your OT prophets calling God father, I did not exclusively attach the OT corruption to Saul/Paul. If you want to tell us that he has a great hand in it, you are free to do so. However we see his great influence in what we see as discrepancies of the NT, regarding to what is in the OT. We see that the 3 godhead hypothesis, which never pass the test of analysis to become a theory, at least with the Muslims who refused its 'blind faith prerequisite,' and the salvation of soul through blood, death on the cross, (even though the soul that dies on the cross is cursed, but none the less, its okay for this noble soul to be cursed anyhow for salvation. Yet as we asked that Hitler was a good Christian, so were his clique; would they go to paradise? All we hear is shhhhhhh, silence), resurrection, etc and of course the rendering of the 10 commandments to become irrelevant, and other strange additions in the NT, all of them has some doing by Paul! But my dear Princess, you conveniently shunned my question to you, why then did say Adam, Noah and Ibrahim not call God father? They were Prophets, right? Noble Prophets, would you not say? Again the inconsistency abound in the Bible! Or are there some verses available that abrogated others, as a process of gradually building up the faith in the hearts of worshippers/believers and then later the legislations, as in the case of the process of revelations of the Qur'an? My dear, am giving you all kind of escape route. take one and you will see where I will take you.
: Your statement above is so absurd, in that just because Greek was spoken by far so many people than the the people in Greece, this is the reason the 'Word of God, as in revealed text,' should be changed from what God preferred it in and hence revealed it in. By the way where is the original manuscript of the Prophets, from which the most ancient Greek manuscript was developed? You do not about this do you? It has been destroyed by the evil hands that changed the true contents of the revealed Tourah, Sabuur and injiil, in their clever attempt to keep you in the dark, so that their dubious corruptions can stand, because there is no referencing material to challenge them with.

I want you to go back with others and retake material that will qualify you for introduction to Islam 101. You need to cleanse your heart. I will be in England soon. You will introduce me to those who prayed and turned you to this. These are evil doers finding every which way to ignore God, just by simply believing that somebody who was innocent died for their sins. wow. what is their own responsibility to God? How is this man who never knew them and not from their tribes and never was sent to their tribe will be responsible for their disbelief? How?

Do you care to make sense when you address issues to me? No disrespect, but the one reason why I put you on the iggy botton is because you make such a pitiful whinging and yet arrive at absolutely no sense at all!

Please bear your concerns in a coherent manner, as long stories that say nothing at all do not interest me these days.

If there's anything you have that bothers you, please let me know precisely what it is!

Cheers.

@babs787,

babs787:
@pilgrim,

Let us solve this contradictions from the inspired word of God

I really ahve no issues with the Psalms or any other book of the Bible. I might have had issues with them BEFORE I left Islam; but it is issues like this that strengthened my disgust for Islam and opened my eyes to the duplicity inherent in Islam.

For example, you war is not against me personally; nor have your efforts helped the cause of Islam in all your arguments. For one thing, you acknowledge that what you are seeking to attack is the "inspired word of God" - and that says it all for me, whether or not you're vexed as to find 'mistakes, contradictions, etc' in them. What I do know is that anybody CAN find the so called "contradictions" when they deliberately read them out of context.

An example in this case is found in Proverbs:


Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

If one is unable to study the context of these verses and their applications, he immediately shouts that it is contradictory! I have often used this as a simple example, but many times it turns out that those who have such a mindset would often deny its implications NO MATTER how sensible the answers may be.

Second, the Muslim hypocrisy of seeking to attack the Psalms (or any other Biblical scriptures) does not help anyone applaud Islam. I think you guys should begin to seriously consider your wasted effort in this strain, because one the one hand the Qur'an says that Allah gave the Psalms to David; then again Muslims come to attack the same Psalms that they claim Allah gave!! The easiest thing for Muslims therefore to do as a way of covering up their deceit is to LIE that the "original" Psalms (or Torah, Injil, etc) are LOST!

Even you babs787 said that the Qur'an stated that the Torah was LOST, and I asked you to simply quote the verse where the Qur'an "STATED" such a thing! Ever since I asked that simple thing, you have NEVER quoted that verse at any time! WHY? Because you obviously knew in your heart that you were [b]LYIN[/b]G! And if you could afford to LIE so shamelessly in a public Forum, why would pilgrim.1 then abandon salvation in Christ and then embrace your LIES?


The two issues that Muslims should deal with are: (a) their hypocritic lies; and (b) their mindset to deliberately attack Christians and Jews.

I have no problems at all with Muhammad's career as a totally different religion that has no reference at all to the revelations of God and the Bible. But when Muslims claim that the same God sent Muhammad, and then turn round to attack that same God and His revelations, such a hypocritic adventure is enough for me to continue to stay out of Islam! You cannot be praising 'Allah' and then rubbishing his claims only when it helps your hypocrisy. Such an attitude is not worth the sands on the road of Medina!

@mdsocks,

There was only one request I offered:

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=102602.msg1808542#msg1808542 date=1199101798]If you really have issues, I am willing to engage YOU. If YOU hide away from the thread, I will not spare anything to bleach your duplicity before even I consider your plagiarism! Fair enough?[/quote]I mean every word of that request. Present issues of your own, and I'll gladly engage you. But if you hide behind someone's article and then scoot away from the thread when answers begin to follow, I will spare NOTHING at . . . and you know me.

I warned auwal87. . . where is he now? Even though I was trying to be fair with him, at least by now you understand I am usually detailed in my rejoinders and I never shy away from issues - so long as people are willing to discuss them!

I've seen the link you offered long before you reposted it here. . . and people can go there and read for themselves. If you're NOT willing to engage me in discussions on the concerns you hope to repost, might I advise that it is far better to not begin a project you don't hope to finish off nicely.

Shalom.

@olabowawe,

olabowale:
Please my people, do not insult one another to the point of going so far to insult family member and those who are dearly loved by your adversaries.

It is sad that your advice here is hypocritical, to say the least! Muslims are the ones who are very quick to insuly the parents of fellow discussants - babs787 has done it, and any attempt to deny that will only invite something unprecidented that may dampen your days, olabowale.

Nothing of such nature moves me - rather, it is the hypocrisy of Muslims who crwal out of their holes to enjoy what their Muslim brethren are doing that really takes the icing!

I had to log off the last time I was online - even though I had a free day in the office and was not as busy as I had anticipated. While online, I was trying to keep up a chat with another Muslim in my IM. He changed latter to emailing me, no worries. After complaining about a few issues, I duely apologized to him and even offered to apologize publicly - which I did! This guy has been a friend for a very long time, begging me to "not join Christians" to expose Muhammad. While I offered that "expose" was not the word, but I was only sharing clear pointers in discussions, he threatened that I logged off. . . or else!

Okay, I dared him and remained a while online on the Forum. Next thing, he said so many unprintable things about my parents. I had to log off to deal with and put him in his place! Which I did. I don't submit to threats - especially not one that wraps around insulting one's parents. No matter how hard my language is, I don't cross that line!

This cry you are making now is simply a shame! Muslims should endeavour to respect other people's convictions and DISCUSS issues. The denials often coming from your camp should not warrant that Muslims take things out of hand!

@babs787,

babs787:
@pilgrim

Let me have the verses you claimed to have supplied on his being crucified and rising after the third day.

I offered verses for the OT prophecies of His crucifixion. Deal with that first, and then we look at your worries about the third day or any timing at all. Is that a nightmare for you?

This attitude of recycling already dealt with issues was why I held my peace and did not want to post the link where the issue had been dealt with in detail!

That is why I offered you those two verses initially for your consideration as well as ask that you simply exegete them! If you cannot and are not willing, that says a whole lot of what sort of person you are at heart - and sorry, I am not just interested in that game that you have played for far too long!

babs787:
Why not wise up and stop this your dishonesty because it has never worked and will never worked with me.

Please babs787. . . if there's any thing "dishonest" in my request, simply demonstrate it! I am used to Muslim allegations aplenty, and I keep saying the same thing: it won't work with me. Now you have cemented yourself to that cliche that you copied from my rejoinder, but does it help clearly enunciate your points?

babs787:
You have all been saying that Jesus' death and resurrection was prophesised in the OT but when I asked you to provide one the prophecies where it was said he would be crucified and resurrected after the third day, you couldnt lay your hands but only grasping at that of piercing of hands that has no relationship with Jesus.

Please if the verses have no relationship whatsoever with Jesus, then please show us with who exactly they point to! Was that too hard for you?

You really have no genuine concern for the 'thrid day' but have been using that as an excuse and marking time on the same spot! Is that all you can do? Intellectual fellows go one step further and discuss issues isntead of hiding under the same weak excuse every single time!

If timing is the problem with you, my dear gentleman, please show us precisely the time calculations for ALL the prophesies you had tried to cop out for Muhammad in the Bible! That would be interesting to see - then I would gladly set aside the verses of the OT pointing to the Crucifixion, and then deal with ONLY the timing of the third Dya!

If you can simple offer the timing you saw for Muhammad's prophecies accurately, then I would welcome your requests and take them one after the other. Fair enough?

@mdsocks,

mdsocks:
is that what you read at the link.

When critical issues are disscussed, you try to divert from issues.

When did YOU discuss them? How many times have I stated issues quite simply instead of hiding behind a link? WHERE have YOU discussed critical issues apart from your first aid excuse of not missing your bed at 9.30pm?

This is a discussion Forum - please share what YOU have and don't amuse us with all this hide and seek convenience game you're playing here! I could as well refer you to LINK[b]S[/b] (plural) if you want them - but I have always sought to DISCUSS issues with forumites here, if you care! I consider your antics here a very classic example of intellectual laziness!

mdsocks:
i will help you with it, will paste from the site, you could do to help explain some logical questions raised.

Alright, goodie! If you really have issues, I am willing to engage YOU. If YOU hide away from the thread, I will not spare anything to bleach your duplicity before even I consider your plagiarism! Fair enough?

Good.

@auwal87,

auwal87:
They usually confuse themselves always, I don't think I will respond to Fake Pilgrim again,

Instead of nursing your bruises here on a mere discussion issue where you raised a thread and hide behind your finger, please grow up and stop whinging like a dessert Arab! You have had nothing to offer in response to my rejoinders. . . so grow up and don't prove that you got a sore eye already!

auwal87:
With all those Christians contributing to the total collapse of Christianity (like Fake Pilgrim, David Lier [though not active now], and others), I just want to inform you that you are doing NOTHING to the development of your Religion, non the less, you are even re-showing good vital evidences that Prophet Jesus (A.S) never commanded his followers to worship at any point in time,

I hear you. The "total collapse" of Christianity - and yet it is growing despite Muhammad's hatred and curse on Jews and Christians! Please park yourself for one corner and let's hear word!

The one thing Muslims have ever tried to do is accuse, accuse, accuse! When we try to dialogue with you, all one reads are the denials and cacophony that spew out from your quarters - nevermind even the bloviates for which you guys have never been able to offer a single verse in the Qur'an for the simple questions I ask!

If you want to prove your mettle, please go over to your own thread, pick up you5rself from your Arabian dust and carefully answer the two questions I have kindly requested for your attention!

ajadrage:
You do not have to call Jesus the Christ a liar. . .
. . .Just because you need someones attention on a topic. . .

That was simply why I left him for the meantime to reflect on his statements. When he has sorted himself out from the Qur'an as to where 'Allah' refers to Jesus the Christ as the same thing he has alleged, I am waiting to see the reactions other Muslims (who hypocritically have had nothing to say so far on that).

@olabowale,

olabowale:
@Pilgrim.1 : You should ask the Mormons if they are Christians. Not my problems. I know better. I have more than a passing relationship in Las Vegas. If you are squabbling with other Christians about their Bibles, you should use the same wisdom that you are using to engage your academics, to think about the reality that is staring you down without flinching.

Please, olabowale, please put on your thinking cap and stop hiding behind your fingers.

If you want to engage in any reasonable discussion about the Mormons, let me invite you to any thread you wish to do so - and the bloviates you have been boasting about your "connections" so far will be manifest to all after a few entries!

It is this kind of shamless rascality of Muslims making empty boast to impress their ummah that sometimes makes me take you guys for the kids you are! Stop the empty talk - please invite me to any thread of your choice and let's see what is left of you and your overblown boasts on the issue of MORMONISM!

olabowale:
Even the Shia can not boost of a different Qur'an. Yet they have a different concept in some things in Islam.

It is way beyond a "different concept", my dear! A different concept from the same Qur'an has seen the Shiites and Sunnis slaughtering one another . . . and the same "different concept" is why the Wahabbis are waiting to wipe out all other Muslims once and for all!

olabowale:
None in will say that Jumu'ah pray is not important. Or change it to another time.

The same guys who bow down on their mats are the same guys who rise up to slit the throats of their Muslim bretyhren!

olabowale:
But in Christianity, you see you have 7 day adventists who go to Sabbath, yet they are Christians!

Are you not the hypocrite who agreed with stranger26 against the SUFI Muslims? Your sister stranger26 was so vehement against Sufi Muslims that she alone thought her ilks of the Shunni breed are ALONE to enter Jannah! And you haven't dealt with the troubled waters in your conclave before complaining about 7 Day Advetists?!?

mdsocks:

Please don't amuse us with Muhammad's denials.

really?

Read this.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/chapter_1.html#pgfId-1006073

Please Where did Muhammad CONFIRM the crucifixion?

It is either he denied it. . . or he confirmed it.

If you have anything tangible to offer for discussion, please do so - and point by point we shall see where you persuasions stand.

mdsocks:
how many times do we have to make things clear to you Nwando?


If i am to collect a dollar every time you raise this same issue after been answered, i will be a millionaire by now.


i will try and get a link to the answered questions later to refreshen you up.

It will be interesting to see if the link addresses the fresh concerns of whether Aisha must have been offering false statements in the hadiths (remember. . . in her own words)!

Dear auwal87,

You started this thread, made a lot of noise, . . . and after having read the several rejoinders that set you straight, what has happened to you?

I don't bite. . . and if you have failed to show your mettle, let me release you for now. It was just your rascality I had wanted to sanitize - and obviously, you got stuck on not being able to provide sound answers for Muhammad passing the simple tests I set before you. Quaint!

Anyhow, don't develop a high blood pressure into the New Year on account of this, okay?

Happy New Year - and enjoy plenty vegetables to regain the necessities that would sustain your next move!

@olabowale,

olabowale:
@Pilgrim.1: I answered your questions above. Yet still repeat it. maybe you want auwal87 toanswer it? If i were to advice him, I just say copy what i wrote and call it a day.

I'm sorry to notify you:

(a) you denied the issue and offered noise in place of sound reasoning - and that was why I simply ignored you initially.

(b) if your present malady is a sundrome for getting noticed, you haven't qualified as yet for proper readership.

(c) Until you say something tangible with clear pointers, your noise are of no interest to me at the moment.

Shalom.

mdsocks:
Pilgrim would like you to read it.

And logicallly discuss it.

(a) WHY would it have to be directed at pilgrim.1 in particular? Have I become your worst nightmare on Nairaland?

(b) And why is it that you have nothing of your own to contribute on the thread - have I become someone to waste time debating authors outside the Forum?

If you have any issues of your own, present them. If nothing else, just let me finish my piecemeal surgery on auwal87!

Na real copyright!

Kobojunkie:
LMAO!!!! How do you respond to such??

Lol. . . the response is simple: they need to go back to history and examine what the Arabs before Muhammad were calling 'allah'. If the appellation "Allah" was already in existence before anyone thought of Muhammad's birth, what are these copyrighters trying to do?

nwando:
Will that shed light into why "prophet" Mo married and defiled a 6 year old girl?

nwando:
Find that hadith,in Aisha's own words where he married her at 6.That is your assignment for the new year.

For the dear Muslim onlookers. . . I just simply ask you one things here:

(a) when you find the Hadiths that confirms the issue here IN HER OWN WORDS,
would it be taken that Aisha was LYING?

(b) If she was NOT lying, what is the problem you Muslims have with her own words?

@babs787,

babs787:
He was never crucified let alone resurrecting after the third.

Please don't amuse us with Muhammad's denials.

babs787:
I have been asking your friends to provide me OT prophecy on his crucifixion and resurrection after the third day but have not seen any prophecy.

What have you done with the OT prophecies of His Crucifixon that were offered already? Have you dealt with the simple request of dealing with those ones FIRST before going on to your problem with the third day?

@olabowale,

olabowale:
All the Christians chaired by chairperson, matron Princess Pilgrim.1, are not satisfied with straight, honest to goodness answers.

Oh my goodness! Alhaji, lego the newly improved diction that you borrowed, and please show us where YOU have offered the "honest to goodness answers" you are noising here!

olabowale:
Even it it stared them down, from now till the last person on earth perishes. They forgot that Ka'aba is a very small Cubical, surrounded by the Building, at least on more one cardinal direction, which both make up, the Mosque called 'Masjid Haram.'

Nobody forgot anything - especially they did not forget that the Kaaba was the rendezvous of 360 idols!

As for the cardinal directions, there are only 4 of them. I wonder then how Muhammad thought of TWO Easts (abi you don forget say e dey your Qur'an)?

This noise you are making in every thread and trailing me like you lost a nose ring, please let me be! You know me already: na my own I sidon jeje until. . .

If you don't behave, I go bleach you before New Year O!

Muslims will do just about anything (even if it goes directly AGAINST the expressly stated tenet of Islam) just to set Islam on course.

@davidylan,

I can't resist thanking you for enlightening these gentlemen once again - especially olabowale!

It is appaling to revisit this thread and see how pettish their rants are! Just a simple question of "Where Did The Qur'an Say So?" and they are still ducking their heads in the Arabian sand? Are we to conclude now that the Qur'an is also LOST because they can no longer find the verse for their assertions?

Haa! "Please gee me the verse" has been my only request here in this thread O. . . and Muhammad's footsoldiers still haven't found it yet?!? Na wah!

@olabowale,

olabowale:
@Pilgrim.1 and davidylan and Mrpataki: Could anyone of you define, 'Correct?'

Please don't humour me with this drivel.

If you are intellectually challenged and you no longer understand the meaning of the simple word you are asking, then please let us know!

Did your Qur'an ever use the word "correct" or "confirm" in the verses quoted so far? WHERE did Allah tell you that he gave the Qur'an in order to "correct" the Biblical scriptures?

This is how you seek to divert the core concerns of a thread - so that with your bloviates you will only hope to tire out readers to lose sight of the subject under discussion!

If you have anything tangible to offer from the Qur'an where 'Allah' said the Qur'an came to "correct" the Biblical scriptures, then please say on! If otherwise, please leave this thread as neatly as you met it before you receive another bleaching!

Hello @9ja,

9ja:
The Quran doesn't state that it is to correct the bible,

First, thank you for affirming that the Qur'an did NOT state that it is to CORRECT the Bible!

I wonder then why Muslims like to make claims that are directly opposite to what is stated in the Qur'an - and then when they are asked to provide the verses for their assertions, all we get are stories that circle round the simple questions, so that it takes them forever to answer those questions!

9ja:
but to bring d whole of mankind to d worship of 1 God (Allah) motheseim

That is not what this thread is about here, please. I absolutely reject any diversions to deviate from the main concern of this thread - which is once again to bring Muslims here and bleach them of every colour and stain with which they have accustomed their hearts in misleading the public! That is the reason why I refuse to listen to any stories babs787 may offer here as a cover-up for the false statements he made on this subject!

9ja:
i.e re iterating d message that came before it.

Thank you plenty-plenty! "Reiterating" is akin to "confirming" - as the Qur'an says in the verses already quoted in the various replies! There is no sleight of hand that could magically make "reiterating" read as "correcting" - please go and find out if you find it otherwise and let us know!

9ja:
The Quran came 2 confirm d messages in d scripture that came before it i.e (injeel to Isa (AS) jesus,Taurat to Musa (AS) n zabur to dawud (AS) david) this are translated as d new testament,scrolls of moses n psalms of david.

Again, thank you for affirming what the Qur'an itself states! But there again, thank you for letting us know that the "message" that it came to "CONFIRM" is the NEW TESTAMENT!!

If it came to "confirm" the New Testament, then it did NOT come to "correct" the same NT!

9ja:
All this revelations came in hebrew so alteration n revision changed d scripture in question so we cannot say d various verses r talkin bout d modern day KJV of d bible.

Sorry, I haven't mentioned the KJV of the Bible - which is only a "translation". There are as many versions and translations of the Bible as there are of the Qur'an out there in the market. If your problem is with the KJV of the Bible, we can sympathise with you. But NOT ONCE did the Qur'an even mention that it came to "correct" the KJV!

9ja:
d word bible is not mentioned in d Quran.

The word "Bible" is mentioned in the hadiths!

9ja:
d word "ahlil kitab" (meanin people of d book-literally or learned people-in modern english) is used to denote christains n jews.

I hear. Please inform olabowale and co that Christians and Jews are LEARNED people - I've said it so many times, but they often have a churning in their stomach whenever I quote the evrse in the Qur'an that points this out!

9ja:
d correction is not in d scripture as my brother said but in d messege

The Qur'an did not mention either that it came to "correct" the message!

What your 'brother' said is directly OPPOSITE to what 'Allah' claimed and no doubt, he has been following the leading of the Muslim apologists who have been deceiving the public and their ummah for eons!

Please 9ja, please. . . if the Qur'an ever said that it came to "correct" the MESSAGE, just do me the favour of quoting the VERSE in the Qur'an where 'Allah' said so!

Where did the Qur'an state that it came to "CORRECT" the "message"?!?

I am waiting with many thanks when you find that verse as well! Or your 'brother' is going to keep entertaining us with the same deceit he began with!

@babs787,

Here is the repetition of my request:

---

Now, @babs787,

When you resume from your blabbing adventures of LYING for 'Allah', please answer these questions and let us know where the references in the Qur'an are. There are only two simple request I will make for now (and others have been asking you to answer them):


#1.

For example, it was the same babs787 who lied to the public on this Forum that the Qur'an was "stating" that the Torah was lost - see again:

IS THE QURAN WRONG IN STATING THAT THE TORAH WAS LOST OR CORRUPTED?

(Source: babs787's assertion in another thread)

Can we ask babs787 to please kindly quote where the Qur'an was "stating" that the Torah was LOST! Without the usual drama of long stories, WHERE did the Qur'an "STATE" that the Torah was LOST, babs787?

#2.

Can you please QUOTE THE VERSE from the QUR'AN where Allah said that the Qur'an came to CORRECT (instead of "CONFIRM" the Biblical scriptures?

Answers please. . . and we can then know how far you want to take these LIES for Allah to wayo people on the Forum!

---

WHY is it taking you FOREVER to simply quote the verses for your assertions above, babs787? All the verses you quoted so far are simply saying the very thing I stated:

The Qur'an purports to have come to CONFIRM the Biblical scriptures

The Qur'an never said that it came to CORRECT the Biblical scriptures!

UNTIL you can find the verse for your assertions, ALL your excuses are simply a waste of internet space!

babs787:
@pilgrim.1


[s]You may keep making denials upon denials for all I care but the truth has been established. Since you failed in reading to understand, I decide to go into your favourite Hilali Khan to bring out the verses for you. I pray that you read this time for understanding.


Quran 2 v 14: and who believe in (the quran and the sunnah) which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Muhammad) and in that which were sent down before you (Torah and Gospel) etc and they believe with certainty in the hereafter resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds) Paradise & Hell.


Allah in the above verse made it known to us that the scripture (Torah and Gospel) were sent down before Muhammad. Please, Quran has been Revealed 1400 years ago and can you say the revelation God mentioned therein are still the same as the versions you are holding now?


Quran 2 v 42; and mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal; the truth (Muhammad and His qualities are written in your scriptures, the Torah and Gospel while you know the truth.

The above verse made it known to us that the Revelation given to them is not the same as the one we are having now because we have chapters making reference to Muhammad in which some have been made plain to you but you ignored same due to pride and arrogance.


Quran 2 v 76; and when they (jews) meet those who believe (muslis), they say, 'we believe' but when they meet one another in private, they say 'shall you (jews) tell them (muslims) what Allah has revealed to you (jews about the description and the qualities of Prophet Muhammad) that which are written i the Torah that they (muslims) may argue with you (jews) about it before your Lord? Have you (jews) then no understanding?


Can you beat your chest to it that the revelation you are having now is the same that revealed to the prophets? Let me have your response and I will give you facts that the NT was compiled by pagans!!


Quran 2 v 89: and when there came to them (the jews) a Book (this Quran) from Allah confirming what is with them, the Torah and Gospel, although aforetime they had invoked Allah (for coming of Muhammad) in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then where there came to them that which they had recognised, they disbelieved in it. So let the curse of Allah be on disbelievers.


Now the above verse says what is with them, are you saying the revelation you are holding now is the same as the one God mentioned in the above verse/ You wouldnt be able to say that because you yourself know that many versions flooded market each claiming to have been from original manuscript but have been having differences here and there.


Quran 2 v 91; and when it is said to them (the jews) 'believe in what Allah has sent down' they say 'we believe in what was sent down to us' and they dsbelieve in that which came after it while it is the truth confirming what is with them. SAY (O Muhammad to themn), 'why then have you killed the prophets of Allah aforetime, if you indeed have been believers.


The Quran indeed came to confirm what was sent earlier and that is the more you tends to read similar accounts from both books. The Quran to confirm that God gave early prophets revelation and you can as well find that in the Quran.


Now if we say that Quran came to comfirm the early revelation, this is what it means:


Quran 2 v 99: and indeed we have sent down to you manifest Ayat (these verses of the Quran which inform in detail about the news of the Jews and their secret intentions etc and none disbelieve in them but those who rebel against Allah's command.


Quran 2 v 101: and when there came to them a Messenger from ALLAH (Muhammad) confirming what was with them, a party of those who were given the scripture threw away the Book of Allah behind their back as if they did not know.

Quran 2 v 146; those to whom we gave the scripture (jews and christians) recosgnise him (Muhammad or the Kabah at Makah) as they recognise their sons. But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it (qualities of Muhammad written in Torah and Gospel)


Hope you understand, no game this time.

You may read Jeremiah 8 v 8 and Deuterenomy 31 v 25 - 29 for the corruption of the revelation.


Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"


These are the verses on the corruption of othe revelation:


Quran 5:13 from the Noble Quran: "But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them (Jews and Christians) and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others)."


Quran 5:41 "O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment."

Let me wait for your denial again.[/s]

@babs787,

I have told you several times: no games here - and as many times as you try to play the Islamic convenience games, that is how many times I will simply rule them out UNTIL you simply quote the VERSE in THE QUR'AN where Allah said he gave the Qur'an to come and correct the Biblical scriptures!

Your direct assertion was that the Qur'ab came to correct the Biblical scriptures, and I simply want the direct verse in the Qur'an for that assertion.

Until you find me that verse, none of the false assumptions of your Muslim apologists (who are fond of duplicity) will avail here! If you CANNOT find the verse where Allah said he gave the Qur'an to come and "CORRECT" the Biblical scriptures, please svae all the other LIES you have tried again and again to postulate here!

The ONLY reason that would interest me in considering the various dubious statements from your Muslim commentators is this:

(a) it is either their word against Allah's Qur'an

OR

(b) their excuses are made to apologise for the fraud in the Qur'an.

Which of them do you offer?

I will repeat the simple request subsequently, just in case you pretend not to have noticed.

Yeepa!  

I beg I run O!! His vitriol now don turn to another thing!

mdsocks:
why log out?

Though i like the debate, but i must say i don't fancy d abusive part.

My posts are straight to the point and no personal grudge against anyone.


Please, don't log out. just keep that bad part of you

Lol. . . why do I get the feeling that the emailer must be someone from Nairaaland?

Anyway, I hear - I'm not saying that you're the emailer (because I've been friends with this chap longer than before I joined N/Land). I was going to log out to let peace flow. . . but he saw that as a sign of cowardice on my part and said he has discovered that the only thing that chases me is when my parents are insulted!

Since I am still online, the guys has been spewing all sorts of unprintable words - u no go believe say this guy get religion for him soul at all!

longman83:
mdsocks, You did not answer my question

Answers were not forthcoming after 9.30pm!

longman83:
Well, may I remind you that my question was originally directed at olabowale, not you. You voluntarily answered his question, and thus the onus is on you to clarify your position.

Gbam!