Ekealterego:

The name "Kamalu" is as ancient Aro/Bende as it can be. Today, it is now shortened to "Kalu" or "Kanu" but some areas in Abia state still maintain the full verion "Kamalu" and "Kamanu", especially Ukwa areas of Asa and Ndoki.

Pass11:

Ok more 19 people to go

Fejoku:

Add my name too. Kikikikiki... Make we go join IYC.

ChinenyeN:


No, this would be incorrect. It's actually well established that the Amanyanabo system in Bonny comes from Kalabari. Okrika and Bonny adopted the Amanyanabo system by the 17th century. It is an Ijaw expression, not Igbo.

Idafire:
Another day, another thread about the Ijaws.

I wonder how some of you ibos think that you could own a land as far away as bonny n Opobo.

And the OP have the nerve to say Opobo is an Ibo word for son.
Hahahaha.

Wonders shall never end.
No one can tell the history of a place more than the people.


What shall I say.....??
OP, and the rest of you miscreants, continue.
Bonny n Opobo are Ijaw lands.
Normal online noise
Hope to see another Ijaw thread tomorrow morning as I wake.

ChinenyeN:


No, this would be incorrect. It's actually well established that the Amanyanabo system comes from Kalabari, not Bonny. Okrika and Bonny adopted the Amanyanabo system by the 17th century. It is an Ijaw expression, not Igbo.

SlayerForever:



The term Amayanabo does not exist amongst the Ijaw (Izon more accurately). There are a plethora of titles borne by Izon rulers and Amayanabo is more or less nonexistent among this titles, which may lend credence to the fact it is a borrowed word albeit corrupted from the original Igbo word.

Igboid:


They can't change without language change.
For example, the town called Igbide in Isokoland Delta State have a history of migrating from Mgbidi in Imo state and Awka in Anambra state.
But today they no longer speak Igbo as mother tongue and so can nolonger be called Igbo.
For this reason, you will never see Ndiigbo claim them.

If Bonny and Opobo were not speaking Igbo language as mother tongue, Ndiigbo will not be claiming them, even if they have history of migration from Igboland.

So nope! Ethnicity is not an artificial construct. Ethnicity is built on ancestral origin and woven together by shared dialects of a common language.
You can't be claiming to be a member of same ethnicity with a people you can't communicate with without using another foreign language.

That's deception.

The Ijaws know that language is important, that is why they are busy forcing Bonny and Opobo people to stop speaking their Indigenous Igbo language and instead start learning a fraudulent language from Kalabari that they call Ibani.

ChinenyeN:


I was going to remark on this, but it seems you corrected yourself. This would be it. I can provide a bit more context. The Otam as a people are from the Cross River region. They were decimated during the slave trade and there would be various small pockets of them outside of their homeland in Cross River. The Otam were not Ndoki.

There are a number of things we can look at to determine this, especially by examining the reports and memoirs of various ship captains, missionaries etc.

To first thing to note, the existence of Ndoki as a community is new. You won't see this name in any reports or memoirs written before the late 18th century. Instead, you will see Ndoki acknowledged in a number of reports much later in the 19th century, and where Ndoki does show up, it is easily identified in ship reports, memoirs and missionary journals as part of the soon-to-be-identified "Ibo country".

The second thing to note is that Otam is never conflated with Ndoki in any of these writings. In fact, Otam shows up earlier in many reports, because Otam people were a heavy source or slaves shipped out of the Bight of Bonny. This means the Otam people were obviously well-known in Bonny, and we see no documentation where Bonny people confuse Otam with Ndoki or otherwise relate Otam with Ndoki.

The third thing is that as a consequence of having very intimate dealings with Bonny, Europeans also would not have confused Otam with Ndoki. In fact, I've seen someone (or some people) in thread severally post screenshots of the writings of Rev. John Clarke to talk about Otam. I do not know those who posted the screenshots actually ever read the work by him, but he distinguishes Otam from Ndoki. Some brief bio on Rev. Clarke. He actually never stepped foot on Bonny (or Nigeria for that matter, if I recall correctly). The closest he got was to Bioko (Fernando Po), but in 1840s, even he could tell the difference between Ndoki and Otam, meaning that the distinction was common knowledge.

So the excerpt that someone has used to identify Otam as Igbo people is actually a misnomer. It is likely the case of assimilation, due to having been decimated by the slave trade and needing to take refuge in other parts of the Lower Niger where they settled.

DitariDisciple2:

Professor Ebi
Alagoa one of the greatest and well known Nigeria wide,
Ijaw writer, is from Nembe and they use Amayanabo.

Diete Spiff Brass use Amayanabo.
He was
First Governor of Rivers State.
Diete spiff that sent all Igbos out of PH after the Biafra war and declared their properties abandoned properties, carry all their houses dash Ijaw people.
Go and tell him he is Ibo.

He is the present Amayanabo of Twon Brass clan.
Bayelsa State.

DitariDisciple2:

Professor Ebi
Alagoa one of the greatest and well known Nigeria wide,
Ijaw writer, is from Nembe and they use Amayanabo.

Diete Spiff Brass use Amayanabo.
He was
First Governor of Rivers State.
Diete spiff that sent all Igbos out of PH after the Biafra war and declared their properties abandoned properties, carry all their houses dash Ijaw and Ikwerre people.
Go and tell him he is Ibo.

He is the present Amayanabo of Twon Brass clan.
Bayelsa State.

Ekealterego:

1. Your first assertion is correct, Ottams were different. However, Clarke acknowledged the differences in 3 of the "districts". The ones close to the Annangs , Ibibio and the ones close to the Efiks and then the Igbo regions and the languages collected from these different places differs. The one closer to the Igbos have some Igbo elements already.

2. No, memoir was explored in that area within the 1700s after Barbot in 1699 and 1705. Except secondary reports from others like Captain Williams but writing from Guinea in 1730-1734.

Maybe some publications in Sierra Leone which was also vague.

The very first exploration after Barbot "onsite" ethnography was in 1823. 120 years later!! This was by Captain Adams in 1823!!

Nobody really started recording Igbos separately as sub-groups until much later. Even the "Bretches" who were considered somewhat "different" because they were notorious for planning uprising and taking over slave ships, were just titled Ichi men.

The studies of specific Igbo sub groups and the differentiations only started around 1830-1840s!!! So, I don't understand where you are getting your theories from.

The very first study of Igbos in Igboland or observation of Igbo within their native area or near their native area was Barbot in 1699. He recorded them as "Hickbaus" or "Heebaus". So, tell me how you knew the subgroups?

Although in Sierra Leone, at first they introduce each other by the name of their towns but OTHERS called them Ibos. They didn't have any choice than to come together because others knew they were the same. The sense of that national cohesion became stronger. It was recorded that the Eboes often "banded together". You think others know the difference?

3. Ndoki is not recent. At least, the very very first book that described individual dialects and places within the "Igbo country" recorded Ngwa and Ndoki clearly... They were numerous and already an old cohesive people by that time. They are not as "recent" as you are making it out to be...

Otam were in three categories.

What I feel is that they changed their current name or currently split into sections.

Igboid.. there are still places with the place name, "Otam" in Abia state. In "Otampa" in Isuikwuato, Otamiri, Otama-a. The most likely explanation is that their names changed or absorbed by other groups or split into smaller groups.

Ekealterego:

1. Your first assertion is correct, Ottams were different. However, Clarke acknowledged the differences in 3 of the "districts". The ones close to the Annangs , Ibibio and the ones close to the Efiks and then the Igbo regions and the languages collected from these different places differs. The one closer to the Igbos have some Igbo elements already.

2. No, memoir was explored in that area within the 1700s after Barbot in 1699 and 1705. Except secondary reports from others like Captain Williams but writing from Guinea in 1730-1734.

Maybe some publications in Sierra Leone which was also vague.

The very first exploration after Barbot "onsite" ethnography was in 1823. 120 years later!! This was by Captain Adams in 1823!!

Nobody really started recording Igbos separately as sub-groups until much later. Even the "Bretches" who were considered somewhat "different" because they were notorious for planning uprising and taking over slave ships, were just titled Ichi men.

The studies of specific Igbo sub groups and the differentiations only started around 1830-1840s!!! So, I don't understand where you are getting your theories from.

The very first study of Igbos in Igboland or observation of Igbo within their native area or near their native area was Barbot in 1699. He recorded them as "Hickbaus" or "Heebaus". So, tell me how you knew the subgroups?

Although in Sierra Leone, at first they introduce each other by the name of their towns but OTHERS called them Ibos. They didn't have any choice than to come together because others knew they were the same. The sense of that national cohesion became stronger. It was recorded that the Eboes often "banded together". You think others know the difference?

3. Ndoki is not recent. At least, the very very first book that described individual dialects and places within the "Igbo country" recorded Ngwa and Ndoki clearly... They were numerous and already an old cohesive people by that time. They are not as "recent" as you are making it out to be...

Otam were in three categories.

What I feel is that they changed their current name or currently split into sections.

Igboid.. there are still places with the place name, "Otam" in Abia state. In "Otampa" in Isuikwuato, Otamiri, Otama-a. The most likely explanation is that their names changed or absorbed by other groups or split into smaller groups.

ChinenyeN:


No, this would be incorrect. It's actually well established that the Amanyanabo system in Bonny comes from Kalabari. Okrika and Bonny adopted the Amanyanabo system by the 17th century. It is an Ijaw expression, not Igbo.

DitariDisciple2:


You are the main confused person.
Them full the Ijaw Republic group.

You guys are the main confused people not them.

Landlocked dot circle Biafra Republic.

BKayy:

Did you miss the part of Fubara and Holiday serving as Kings to the same Bonny at the same time?

Lionnation:
I have been going through thread and no single person used foul language now here you come

SlayerForever:


A calculated guess.

Quaws, generally Ibibiod peoples Andoni etc
Ottams, some Igbo of hinterland.
Appas, Efik people.


Ekealterego come and epp me

Igboid:


They can't change without language change.
For example, the town called Igbide in Isokoland Delta State have a history of migrating from Mgbidi in Imo state and Awka in Anambra state.
But today they no longer speak Igbo as mother tongue and so can nolonger be called Igbo.
For this reason, you will never see Ndiigbo claim them.

If Bonny and Opobo were not speaking Igbo language as mother tongue, Ndiigbo will not be claiming them, even if they have history of migration from Igboland.

So nope! Ethnicity is not an artificial construct. Ethnicity is built on ancestral origin and woven together by shared dialects of a common language.
You can't be claiming to be a member of same ethnicity with a people you can't communicate with without using another foreign language.

That's deception.

The Ijaws know that language is important, that is why they are busy forcing Bonny and Opobo people to stop speaking their Indigenous Igbo language and instead start learning a fraudulent language from Kalabari that they call Ibani.

Ekealterego:

@zooposki, this finally confirms your answer.
@slayerforever, just to reiterate that your assertions about the Kwas are correct.
All the mmoghu people were also called "Mokos" or "Moscoes". In later books, Quaws were recorded as "Kwas".
Proof below

Second proof. This is another account about Bonny.

I will not upload the third proof, it explained how Ijo later influenced the language of Okrika and New Calabar.

SlayerForever:
The bomb is here!

Putindbutt:
Ibos are revisionists. Ibos were slaves in Bonny. No slaves have ever laid claim to a slave port. You were a commodity being traded at the slave port.
The merchants were the Whites while the middle men were the ijaws.
Opobo means male children in ibo- that's a lie. Amanyabo means bla bla bla- spare me that bullshit. You are only fighting a lost cause.

9Pluto:
You have an interesting submission. But I think it would be more reasonable to provide supporting literatures.
I would soon get the actual ijaw pronunciation or spelling of the title as I came across it during my research.

ChinenyeN:


From the works of Charles Ogan (1980s), Finapiri (2001), Alagoa & Fombo (1960s) and Nzewuwa (1980s), among others, it is well-established that the Amanyanabo system is a modern monarchy system that first came about in the 17th century among most Eastern Ijaw communities.

Nzewuwa (1983) showed that the House System and a feudal/factional kingship system already existed in the Elem Kalabari area. Kalabari oral traditions and documentary evidence from European traders suggests that these institutions came to be in active practice by the 17th century. Additionaly, Amakiri I (the first of the modern Kalabari monarchs), is recollected as becoming the first "overall Amanyanabo", creating the modern Kalabari dynasty and galvanizing the Kalabari kingdom. This tradition of Amakiri I becoming the first "overall Amanyanabo" suggests the presence of other feudal kings (at least some, not all) going by "Amanyanabo" (Alagoa, 1970s, 2005).

Unlike the series of events/oral traditions of Kalabari, the picture was rather different for Okrika. Charles Ogan (1980s) did a decent job in marking down a chronology for the adoption of both the House System and the Amanyanabo System within Okrika (which Charles Ogan refers to as Amanyanaboship). Charles shows that the Amanyanabo institution did not exist in Okrika prior to its adopted in the seventeeth century. The first Amanyanabo of Okrika (Ado I) was installed as part of the ongoing effort to free Okrika from Bonny's political and economic authority.

Finapiri (2001) researched and collected Bonny oral traditions which credit Perekule as having brought drastic changes to the kingship system in Bonny in the 18th century, in which Perekule was officially proclaimed as the "Amanyanabo", starting the new Amanyanabo dynasty in Bonny. For Bonny, both the House System and the Amanyanabo system were imported between the late 17th to early 18th centuries (Alagoa 1971, Oriji 2011).

GodIsBiafran:
Bonny/Opobo is 100% Igbo. Any Ijaw there is a visitor.

ChinenyeN:


From the works of Charles Ogan (1980s), Finapiri (2001), Alagoa & Fombo (1960s) and Nzewuwa (1980s), among others, it is well-established that the Amanyanabo system is a modern monarchy system that first came about in the 17th century among most Eastern Ijaw communities.

Nzewuwa (1983) showed that the House System and a feudal/factional kingship system already existed in the Elem Kalabari area. Kalabari oral traditions and documentary evidence from European traders suggests that these institutions came to be in active practice by the 17th century. Additionaly, Amakiri I (the first of the modern Kalabari monarchs), is recollected as becoming the first "overall Amanyanabo", creating the modern Kalabari dynasty and galvanizing the Kalabari kingdom. This tradition of Amakiri I becoming the first "overall Amanyanabo" suggests the presence of other feudal kings (at least some, not all) going by "Amanyanabo" (Alagoa, 1970s, 2005).

Unlike the series of events/oral traditions of Kalabari, the picture was rather different for Okrika. Charles Ogan (1980s) did a decent job in marking down a chronology for the adoption of both the House System and the Amanyanabo System within Okrika (which Charles Ogan refers to as Amanyanaboship). Charles shows that the Amanyanabo institution did not exist in Okrika prior to its adopted in the seventeeth century. The first Amanyanabo of Okrika (Ado I) was installed as part of the ongoing effort to free Okrika from Bonny's political and economic authority.

Finapiri (2001) researched and collected Bonny oral traditions which credit Perekule as having brought drastic changes to the kingship system in Bonny in the 18th century, in which Perekule was officially proclaimed as the "Amanyanabo", starting the new Amanyanabo dynasty in Bonny. For Bonny, both the House System and the Amanyanabo system were imported between the late 17th to early 18th centuries (Alagoa 1971, Oriji 2011).

ChinenyeN:


From the works of Charles Ogan (1980s), Finapiri (2001), Alagoa & Fombo (1960s) and Nzewuwa (1980s), among others, it is well-established that the Amanyanabo system is a modern monarchy system that first came about in the 17th century among most Eastern Ijaw communities.

Nzewuwa (1983) showed that the House System and a feudal/factional kingship system already existed in the Elem Kalabari area. Kalabari oral traditions and documentary evidence from European traders suggests that these institutions came to be in active practice by the 17th century. Additionaly, Amakiri I (the first of the modern Kalabari monarchs), is recollected as becoming the first "overall Amanyanabo", creating the modern Kalabari dynasty and galvanizing the Kalabari kingdom. This tradition of Amakiri I becoming the first "overall Amanyanabo" suggests the presence of other feudal kings (at least some, not all) going by "Amanyanabo" (Alagoa, 1970s, 2005).

Unlike the series of events/oral traditions of Kalabari, the picture was rather different for Okrika. Charles Ogan (1980s) did a decent job in marking down a chronology for the adoption of both the House System and the Amanyanabo System within Okrika (which Charles Ogan refers to as Amanyanaboship). Charles shows that the Amanyanabo institution did not exist in Okrika prior to its adopted in the seventeeth century. The first Amanyanabo of Okrika (Ado I) was installed as part of the ongoing effort to free Okrika from Bonny's political and economic authority.

Finapiri (2001) researched and collected Bonny oral traditions which credit Perekule as having brought drastic changes to the kingship system in Bonny in the 18th century, in which Perekule was officially proclaimed as the "Amanyanabo", starting the new Amanyanabo dynasty in Bonny. For Bonny, both the House
System and the Amanyanabo system were imported between the late 17th to early 18th centuries (Alagoa 1971, Oriji 2011).