PROUD-IGBO:


^^^With all due respect, you're talking rubbish!

Don't imply ulterior motives to his write-up just b'cos you can't handle the truth, or maybe b'cos your hatred or jealousy of Igbos wouldn't let you view his write-up disspassionately and without sentiments.

Nowhere did he say Igbos are superior genetically (as Hitler thought the Aryan race was), but rather his argument is that due to cultural factors, Igbos would thrive in a FAIR environment that rewards hardwork based on individual effort, competitiveness and being anwerable to no one but God (ie- having a republican, individualistic spirit); if Yorubas and Hausa/Fulani had such a cultural environment they would be indistinguishable from Igbos and Nigeria would be the better for it.....then there wouldn't be any need for backstabbing, envy, seeing gov't patronage as the only means to survival, quota system/federal Character, etc.

It's all about nuture (environmental factors shaping ones character and outlook in life) as against nature (managing to get by in life based mainly on the cards you've been dealt with by nature).

Achebe was spot on!....but then again, i don't expect certain peoples to agree with him.

kmariko: On immigration the theoritical projection is skewered.

[size=14pt]Katsumoto quote[/size] "What Achebe sees as advancement in the form of Igbos settling in other places, others call it migration to seek opportunities in more evolved societies. Competitiveness and individualism meant that Alaigbo was not as evolved as other Nigerian societies. This competitiveness and individualism is still the reason why there is net migration from Alaigbo to other parts of Nigeria. For instance, there are Americans and Brits in Nigeria but there are more Nigerians in those societies than there citizens in Nigeria. Nigerians do well in those more evolved societies, better than some citizens in those countries but it would be foolish for Nigerians to claim that the society is evolved because of their presence."

Historically Europe was more developed than the Americas, right. Depending whom you believe Columbus or the vikings, they made their way to America, creating a NET immigration to a RAW continent, which they have to develop, same goes to Australia and the leading colonisation of Africa and the rest of the world. In other words there was a net migration to Americas and Australia occassioned by individaul attributes and not continental demands.. The cliche of the Rugged individualism of the West, As daniel McLaughlin put it "Rugged individualists took pride in not being dependent on anyone. They had a motive to be responsible their own lives and actions, which necessarily meant he or she had to be productive. This does not mean that individualists didn't care about other people or were unsociable or uncharitable. During the period of time most associated with rugged individualism, the wild, wild west in America of the 1800's, the earliest institutions of those settlers included schools and churches. People can take responsibility for their own lives and yet also participate in social and charitable activities. They aren't mutually exclusive."

Fast forward to 2000-2008 there is a net migration from Australia to USA, but Australia from your definition has evolved , so why then leave their highly evolved society to USA. One can say the same for the Nordic countries. Also the Japanese whom you bear the same name -lol do emigrate more to the USA than vice versa.

People migrate for all sorts of reasons. And I guess the migration of the ethnic Igbo groups are for reasons best known to them and it cannot be because of just one.,., Do not forget that ultimately it is individuals and families that make these decisions not the congregation of ethnic groups.

Though I acknowledge that there is some element of fact in your theory but will the p- value when checked rigorously bear out with other facts as regards reasons for immigration.

thanks

Onlytruth:

Your statistics even support Achebe! hehehe

Here we go.

If I add Igbo share in Lagos 33 billion (1/3 of 33 billion), to Igbo share in Delta (about 1/3) to Igbo share in Rivers (about 1/3) to all the SE states, just the first digits (not adding fractions), I come up with roughly $64 billion under Igbo control..
If I do the same for all your Yoruba states and add you share of 1/3 in Lagos, I come up with $54 billion.

You see my friend, we top you by about $10 billion.

I think that intelligent people in Nigeria already know that because we send our females to school more than you, there is NO WAY you can be richer than us.

Swallow your pride. Stop beating your wives and marrying 10 wives! Send them to school!

kmariko: On immigration the theoritical projection is skewered.

[size=14pt]Katsumoto quote[/size] "What Achebe sees as advancement in the form of Igbos settling in other places, others call it migration to seek opportunities in more evolved societies. Competitiveness and individualism meant that Alaigbo was not as evolved as other Nigerian societies. This competitiveness and individualism is still the reason why there is net migration from Alaigbo to other parts of Nigeria. For instance, there are Americans and Brits in Nigeria but there are more Nigerians in those societies than there citizens in Nigeria. Nigerians do well in those more evolved societies, better than some citizens in those countries but it would be foolish for Nigerians to claim that the society is evolved because of their presence."

Historically Europe was more developed than the Americas, right. Depending whom you believe Columbus or the vikings, they made their way to America, creating a NET immigration to a RAW continent, which they have to develop, same goes to Australia and the leading colonisation of Africa and the rest of the world. In other words there was a net migration to Americas and Australia occassioned by individaul attributes and not continental demands.. The cliche of the Rugged individualism of the West, As daniel McLaughlin put it "Rugged individualists took pride in not being dependent on anyone. They had a motive to be responsible their own lives and actions, which necessarily meant he or she had to be productive. This does not mean that individualists didn't care about other people or were unsociable or uncharitable. During the period of time most associated with rugged individualism, the wild, wild west in America of the 1800's, the earliest institutions of those settlers included schools and churches. People can take responsibility for their own lives and yet also participate in social and charitable activities. They aren't mutually exclusive."

Fast forward to 2000-2008 there is a net migration from Australia to USA, but Australia from your definition has evolved , so why then leave their highly evolved society to USA. One can say the same for the Nordic countries. Also the Japanese whom you bear the same name -lol do emigrate more to the USA than vice versa.

People migrate for all sorts of reasons. And I guess the migration of the ethnic Igbo groups are for reasons best known to them and it cannot be because of just one.,., Do not forget that ultimately it is individuals and families that make these decisions not the congregation of ethnic groups.

Though I acknowledge that there is some element of fact in your theory but will the p- value when checked rigorously bear out with other facts as regards reasons for immigration.

thanks

saintohia: The truth still remains that Nigeria would have advanced in development had it been the Igbos is running the country.

He that the cap fits most should be allowed to wear it.

kmariko: On immigration the theoritical projection is skewered.

[size=14pt]Katsumoto quote[/size] "What Achebe sees as advancement in the form of Igbos settling in other places, others call it migration to seek opportunities in more evolved societies. Competitiveness and individualism meant that Alaigbo was not as evolved as other Nigerian societies. This competitiveness and individualism is still the reason why there is net migration from Alaigbo to other parts of Nigeria. For instance, there are Americans and Brits in Nigeria but there are more Nigerians in those societies than there citizens in Nigeria. Nigerians do well in those more evolved societies, better than some citizens in those countries but it would be foolish for Nigerians to claim that the society is evolved because of their presence."

Historically Europe was more developed than the Americas, right. Depending whom you believe Columbus or the vikings, they made their way to America, creating a NET immigration to a RAW continent, which they have to develop, same goes to Australia and the leading colonisation of Africa and the rest of the world. In other words there was a net migration to Americas and Australia occassioned by individaul attributes and not continental demands.. The cliche of the Rugged individualism of the West, As daniel McLaughlin put it "Rugged individualists took pride in not being dependent on anyone. They had a motive to be responsible their own lives and actions, which necessarily meant he or she had to be productive. This does not mean that individualists didn't care about other people or were unsociable or uncharitable. During the period of time most associated with rugged individualism, the wild, wild west in America of the 1800's, the earliest institutions of those settlers included schools and churches. People can take responsibility for their own lives and yet also participate in social and charitable activities. They aren't mutually exclusive."

Fast forward to 2000-2008 there is a net migration from Australia to USA, but Australia from your definition has evolved , so why then leave their highly evolved society to USA. One can say the same for the Nordic countries. Also the Japanese whom you bear the same name -lol do emigrate more to the USA than vice versa.

People migrate for all sorts of reasons. And I guess the migration of the ethnic Igbo groups are for reasons best known to them and it cannot be because of just one.,., Do not forget that ultimately it is individuals and families that make these decisions not the congregation of ethnic groups.

Though I acknowledge that there is some element of fact in your theory but will the p- value when checked rigorously bear out with other facts as regards reasons for immigration.

thanks

dayokanu:

You mean after all these you rape them?

First female Speaker in Nigeria is a yoruba woman (Highest Political post ever held by a woman)

Lagos State has a female Deputy, Ekiti has a female deputy, Osun has a female deputy

Tell us about the fate of female in NdYibo Politics

shymexx: ^^^How can that be true when their region is just as backward, if not worse than the rest of Nigeria

And are their governors not Igbos?

Policewoman: Achebe is merely stating the obvious. Germany was roundly defeated inthe 1st and then 2nd world wars and subsequently occupied by their victors, U.S and USSR. But instead of the U.S continuing to hold them down, they actually exploited their ingeniousness. It is to the credit of the german rocket scientists who were hitherto NAZIs, that America was able to beat the soviet union in the race to put a man on the moon. U.S did nothing to interfere with the German industrialisation after the war. The result is that since the unification of Germany after the fall of the Berlin wall in 1989, d country has since moved from a conquered territory to a great European power. Now back home, Gowon and Nigeia failed to tap into the great innovations witnessed in Biafra which enabled them withstand the Nigeria-UK onslaught for 3 years. They instead relegated them to the background. They instead resorted to exploitation of their crude oil resources. The result is there for us to see. Has Nigeria fared any better? Karma has a way of coming back. If you hold a man down, you are invariably holding yourself down too. Just a food for thought.

kmariko: On immigration the theoritical projection is skewered.

[size=14pt]Katsumoto quote[/size] "What Achebe sees as advancement in the form of Igbos settling in other places, others call it migration to seek opportunities in more evolved societies. Competitiveness and individualism meant that Alaigbo was not as evolved as other Nigerian societies. This competitiveness and individualism is still the reason why there is net migration from Alaigbo to other parts of Nigeria. For instance, there are Americans and Brits in Nigeria but there are more Nigerians in those societies than there citizens in Nigeria. Nigerians do well in those more evolved societies, better than some citizens in those countries but it would be foolish for Nigerians to claim that the society is evolved because of their presence."

Historically Europe was more developed than the Americas, right. Depending whom you believe Columbus or the vikings, they made their way to America, creating a NET immigration to a RAW continent, which they have to develop, same goes to Australia and the leading colonisation of Africa and the rest of the world. In other words there was a net migration to Americas and Australia occassioned by individaul attributes and not continental demands.. The cliche of the Rugged individualism of the West, As daniel McLaughlin put it "Rugged individualists took pride in not being dependent on anyone. They had a motive to be responsible their own lives and actions, which necessarily meant he or she had to be productive. This does not mean that individualists didn't care about other people or were unsociable or uncharitable. During the period of time most associated with rugged individualism, the wild, wild west in America of the 1800's, the earliest institutions of those settlers included schools and churches. People can take responsibility for their own lives and yet also participate in social and charitable activities. They aren't mutually exclusive."

Fast forward to 2000-2008 there is a net migration from Australia to USA, but Australia from your definition has evolved , so why then leave their highly evolved society to USA. One can say the same for the Nordic countries. Also the Japanese whom you bear the same name -lol do emigrate more to the USA than vice versa.

People migrate for all sorts of reasons. And I guess the migration of the ethnic Igbo groups are for reasons best known to them and it cannot be because of just one.,., Do not forget that ultimately it is individuals and families that make these decisions not the congregation of ethnic groups.

Though I acknowledge that there is some element of fact in your theory but will the p- value when checked rigorously bear out with other facts as regards reasons for immigration.

thanks

okooyinbo:

Have you asked yourself if at all there was something to tap into? You young fellas just believe the myth of the Biafran ingenuity without making verifications. There really was nothing to tap into. Assuming there was something, dont you think the self acclaimed industrialists would themselves have made something out of it despite Nigeria?

okosodo: Hausa goat, e go soon set 4 una head

okosodo: Wether you like am or not, na true. It can be seen clearly. I am a BINI guy so i am speaking from a point of neutrality. Nigeria is still marginalising ibo till today, and the result is backwardness for every body because the wrong hausa goats will take their position. We are going nowhere in this country

okosodo: @ calloti, if you are edo , you must be ishan or etsako, they are not always objective

okosodo: The Igbo do not Agree, but only a group of idiots that have been backstabbing the igbo nationb since the struggle do.

okosodo: They are the most daring type of people.
I bet you they will soon start quota system in our female football, then it will go down just like that of the male.

okosodo: because the igbos hate terrorism and bomb throwing, the north can not do anything else except bombing. the igbo is against it

okosodo: We better follow the igbos. They will develop so fast. The north will eventually become like their neighbour, niger, and the west, don‘t go there

okosodo: The greatest of the greats is gone. We will miss u.

okosodo: That‘s the Mandela of nigeria you are talking about

okosodo: and these are the only people making genuine sacrifices for the unity of this god forsaken entity

okosodo: Without doubt, it is true. Instead of all the rest tribes to start hating lamentably , we should cross check facts, i envy them.

okosodo: oduasolja and ileke-idi, will hang themselves for this news

okosodo: this is why they are hated by muslims especially hausas, nothing more

okosodo: As worthless as Ojukwu was to you , no nigerian wether living dead or yet to be born could achieve one tenth of what the earthquake achieved, Confirmed

okosodo: I am not the tribalistic type. But MKO had no impact on history. Ojukwu on the other hand should not be compared with any nigerian. But should be compared with the likes of Martin Luther, Mathma Gandhi, Theodore Rosevelt, Abraham Lincoln e.t.c. Hating him can not change the fact, even though you try to compare him with nokia 3310

obo_man: I would have to disagree with Achebe again on these wrong claims because the facts doesn't support his claims.......



1.... he said, He observed that the Igbo culture’s emphasis on change, individualism and competitiveness gave his ethnic group an edge over the Hausa/Fulani man who was hindered by a “wary religion” and the Yoruba man who was hampered by” traditional hierarchies.

Rubbish......

Individualism doesn't make a society strong, no great civilization, past or present has thrived on individualism.... Great civilizations thrive on Cooperation, values and respect.

Great civilization are better off doing things together, speaking with one voice, standing together, and forming a great brotherly bond. From Ancient Rome to Modern civilization, you see cooperation at work...



2..... How can a form of Hierarchy impede growth? With civilization comes hierarchy, and an effective form hierarchy produces a great civilization. Ancient Rome had senators, Emperors, and courts.
So hierarchy isn't always a bad thing as Achebe claimed..


3....IF the Igbos are that progressive and advanced as he claimed, why can't we see its effects in the current South-Eastern states? Instead, what we see in Igbo States are dilapidated infrastructures, and towns riddled with crimes. Nigeria currently operates a federal system, and over a 12 year period, no igbo state is doing above average. How can Achebe make this bogus claim when Igbo governors aren't performing extraordinarily better than their counterparts in other states?

Achebe, if your people did embraced Catholicism wholeheartedly as you claimed, why OKIJA? A one time governor once killed a chief judge and his wife in cold blood, and nothing was done to apprehend him!!!



4....Igbo's massive participation in slavery in the 18TH century, what do you call that?



Prof Achebe, I will never say Yorubas are better either, because that would make me non-objective, but I think you are wrong to say Yorubas hate the Igbos because Igbos are advanced and progressive... I can't see any advancement and progress that they possess that no other tribe possesses...


If Yorubas and Fulanis hate the Igbos, It is because of your kinsmen's greed, selfishness, diabolical love for money, and their pride..... All these vile qualities I just
mentioned are quite alien to Yoruba communities, and the love of money shouldn't be mistaken for ambition.


If Yorubas hate the Igbos, why do you feel so much at home in south western states? You are allowed to own houses, set up businesses, and even enjoy privileges most Yorubas don't enjoy.

So Prof Achebe, get your facts right! Leave America, come down to Lagos, Ibadan and Ogun, and see how your kinsmen are having a good time. You will also find your kinsmen attending best private universities you find in Nigeria, in Yoruba states...

Prof Chinua, if you see that as hatred, then I'm sorry you are wrong!!

Usama binYamiri:

Not while you remain a conquered territory.
Its like asking The Americans to go to sleep as they occupy Afghanistan so that the Taliban can re-arm.

Katsumoto:

So others have to be like Igbos for Nigeria to be better? You make statements like this and then claim afterwards that you are not claiming superiority.

Because of the differences between the various ethnic groups in Nigeria, conferedationism was adopted in the first Republic. Do you know how the first Republic ended? Some Igbo sons, not only killed non-Igbo leaders, they also killed those who were supposed to be their brothers. For instance. Brig. Maimalari escaped from his home only to run into Ifeajuna who was his protege. Believing that Ifeajuna was his brother, he walked towards him only for Ifeajuna to shoot him in cold bold. Was that an act of bravery or backstabbing?

Secondly, the confederationism was killed by whom? Who introduced the unitary form of government with decree 34 because Ndigbo wanted to export civil servants to other parts of the country? Who abolished compulsory Hausa tests in the North so as to remove the advantage of being an Hausa speaking person in a Hausa dominated region? The answer to all is Ironsi.

People who live in glass housed shouldn't throw stones. People with short memories shouldn't tell stories because they forget the start of the story and be reminded by wiser folks.

okooyinbo:

[b]Where is that conquered territory? [/b]Btw, the situation of Nigeria / Biafra is very much not comparable to that of America / Afghanistan.

I really dont think there is a connection between the question I asked and this your answer.

okooyinbo:

Where is that conquered territory? Btw, the situation of Nigeria / Biafra is very much not comparable to that of America / Afghanistan.

I really dont think there is a connection between the question I asked and this your answer.