₦airaland Forum

Amaka

Now that i have got your attention. Why is it OK that women accept it as a man's role to open doors and the one to pay for the dates, but the woman could step in and pay for a date if she wants to help out or at her discretion; but gotta problem when some men say the woman is the person who should more likely than not wash the dishes, and that the man should wash it to help out or at his discretion?

michelin89:
Actually he is. It's not news that the majority of women want to eat their cakes and have it. Ever heard of the monthly allowance even when the woman earns more than the man?

Now that i have got your attention. Why is it OK that women accept it as a man's role to open doors and the one to pay for the dates, but the woman could step in and pay for a date if she wants to help out or at her discretion; but gotta problem when some men say the woman is the person who should more likely than not wash the dishes, and that the man should wash it to help out or at his discretion?

I still have a problem with all these women accepting certain designated man roles; but there cannot be a designated woman role. Which kind of double standard is that? Why is it Ok to have man roles but not woman roles?

full depth:
AMAKA, please read this ooooo,  it will help your life !

Amaka knows the truth. I wonder if her father was the dishwasher at home.

michelin89:
My father is very much alive. I spoke with him just today. And if I may say I don't wish to live the way my father does, because my father isn't living the way his father does.

Now that I have made this point clear, I'll add this: except you want to get religious, tell me where naturally males are leaders? You can say males usually protect which is true, but in that case should soldiers command their citizens because they take care of their defense? Being a leader is not a privilege but a big responsibility. You serve the people you lead and not the other way round. Do you know what happens when a leader thinks he must subject his citizens? One word: Abacha. We all celebrated his death, so why do you still insist that dictatorship is the best form of leadership?

I never said dictatorship is the best form of leadership. Abacha was a leader who was a  dictator just like Obama is a leader and not a dictator. A true leader oversees the affairs of the house and while he accepts opinions and insights from another, the other person's views is subordinated to his views and has the final say, of course after careful evaluation of the inputs from the other parties.

Besides religion, biologically, testosterone emboldens men and makes them take more risks, qualities which be found in leaders. Men by nature are generally physically are less frail than women, are usually more taller and bigger and muscular, all of which are characteristics which are amenable to leadership.

Biblically, you know that God ordained men as leaders. Any man who divests himself of these ability has lost his birthright, and many have done so. That is why you have all these gays and sisis. You women know it and can run your mouth all day, but the truth is that you will probably not be attracted to a man who does not display all these "manly" attributes. No real woman wants a gay. I don't know the types of men you date but I am shocked you don't get it.

michelin89:
And what culture are we discussing now? Does it encourage or force?

Nigerian culture does not force anyone, any woman to wash dishes. Men also wash dishes, but it so happens that the women, more often than not, wash the dishes. Just like men, more often than not, provide financially for the family and engage in all other manly pleasantries such as paying for dates, opening doors, etc. while i never hear any woman complain about her being relegated to a woman role as the benefactor of these things, I hear moaning when she it is being said that more often than not, she will do the dishes.

michelin89:
Have you ever heard of deduction? Why do you need to be a leader? Ahahahahha! Gosh you make me laugh.

Why does the man not have to be a leader? The last time I checked there has to be some leader and there can't be two captains to one ship. So who then is the leader? I need to ask if all these women are raised without their fathers before I proceed, because if y'all are raised without your fathers then i can understand why you don't understand that the man is supposed to be the leader of the house.

michelin89:
So what has "natural" got to do with established social norms? Nature can only come up when considering biological differences.

Be coherent with your argumentation and stop mixing inconsistent theories.

You are right nature comes up when considering biological differences, and my point is that the biological differences is inextricably linked with certain differences in behaviors between men and women--thanks to testosterone and estrogen; although some societies engage in forcing behaviors on the sexes to the extent that it becomes oppressive, while some other  societies try to encourage behaviors  that go against behaviors caused by biological differences, which will result in catastrophe. Balance is key.

michelin89:
You sound like a castrated man. Do you really need to control a woman to feel like a man? That makes me think you are really insecure if you gain confidence in your woman's weakness.

You sound like a hermaphrodite, maybe that is why you are confused? What have i said that has any element of control? When did role sharing equate to control. Mention one phrase in anything i have said that alludes to control. Why don't you respond intelligently instead of all these "straw man" arguments.

michelin89:
What a bunch of crap. You are confusing societal differences with biological ones. Now that you have showed us you know nothing, what about a candy to console yourself?

you are the one who knows nothing. Are we not talking about societal differences? When did we start talking about biological differences? And even so, biological differences, for example hormonal differences, is largely responsible for the differences in behavior in the society?

My point is that certain things don't change, since Amaka talked about this is 2009 and not 1600.

that is why the divorce rate and the amount of tumultuous relationships in the West is as high as the empire state building. Adopt the Western way and most likely all y'all females will be baby mammas or will be divorced because many men don't want to be subject to  the behaviors of these women who feel that they are equal in the relationship and that the man is not leader; instead, he is a co-leader.

THE-AMAKA:
YOU are the one who has refused to accept the simple truth that the world is changing and you need to get with it or get lost!!
stop living in the 1600s and wake up.

So how has the world changed? Do women open doors for men?; Do women pay for dates?; Do women propose to men?; But you have hand-picked a couple of things that you claim has changed, cherry picking only the inconvenient things as the things that have changed. There are certain intrinsic things that would never change, and an attempt to change it will be inconsistent with nature. You need to celebrate  and embrace the differences between the sexes instead of your nonsensical attempt to make an incursion into a male behavior.

So how many times does your father wash dishes at home? Or how many times does your mother commandeer your daddy to wash dishes?

oludy:
Amaka na mumu. She doesn't even know how to argue constructively. All she does is curse. Home training issues? javascript:void(0); LOL. Do you have a husband Amaka? i doubt. Cos if he sees all you have posted on this thread, him go fear o.

I know all dis lazy-ass ladies are just fronting here. Go try this shit with your hubby at home and come back with your xperience. You follow the White's way of doing things, you get the same results. That explains why we have lots of single parents out there. Marry today, divorce tomorrow. Cos you can go against nature. No man likes to be trampled on. We can help, but we will not watch you lazy-ass ladies take over, well except the man is a lazy ass sitting at home while you bring home the bread.

But like i said, do what you want, the xperience will be yours alone too. Live your lives people. What goes up must come down.

Make u na no let this page reach 20 oooooooo. Except y'all jobless.

@Siena, i pity you.

Spot on. All these ladies running their mouth should go and try it with their spouses at home. A lot of them want to act like Akata girls. I hope they are also ready to bear the consequences of acting like akata ladies: baby mammas, high divorce rates, unstable homes, etc. Also akata men are punks and even though they want to be treated like kings, they let akata women jump over them like trampoulines. Bottom line, you cannot go against nature; and if you do, the end result is chaos. He who has an ear let him hear!

Princek12:
To the people who responded to my earlier statement, I do agree that there is nothing wrong with the man doing the dishes when the woman's hands are full. I do not have an extreme view as it is only practicable, efficient, and reasonable for a man to wash dishes when his woman is busy. My question for ladies is that do you think that women should have more of a natural affinity to washing dishes; in other words, is washing dishes more of a what woman is supposed to do because of its inherently kitchen-like nature?

Amaka, this is the simple question for which you provided no answer; instead, you said that I have pride. You are a loser. Abi you think every man will kiss your behind and cannot voice their opinion when no one has a problem with you voicing your own opinion. The manner in which you are so quick to call people losers and proud instead of responding with a logical, coherent answer speaks volume. If you can't discuss without getting personal, get the phuck outta Nairaland. Nonsense!

nwabuking5:
i do wash every thing in my house even before any woman started coming in to my house at the first place. even there is no kind of dishers that i don't know how to cook in my house. i even cook for my girl when ever she comes to my house. and she will go to the kitchen and dish the food out for both of us to eat together. and i like doing it. not that i cant do them for my wife.

but the one and only big question here is must a woman order her husband to do them as if is his normal duty in the house. and he must do them? someone anser me

Thank you. That is the same question I asked Amaka before she said I have pride. Na waa for some women oooooooooooooo

THE-AMAKA:
you have Pride issues, just face it.
anyway, NEXT!!


if you cant come up with a better excuse, just please leave now.

Classic ad-hominem attack: when you have no answer the next thing to do is attack the person in an attempt to divert from the issue. All i asked was a yes or no or opinionated answer. Where did all this pride stuff come from?

To the people who responded to my earlier statement, I do agree that there is nothing wrong with the man doing the dishes when the woman's hands are full. I do not have an extreme view as it is only practicable, efficient, and reasonable for a man to wash dishes when his woman is busy. My question for ladies is that do you think that women should have more of a natural affinity to washing dishes; in other words, is washing dishes more of a what woman is supposed to do because of its inherently kitchen-like nature?

Amaka

It is not because of pride. My point is that will the woman herself feel comfortable with telling her man to wash the dishes in front of his friends and family. If she has a chilling effect as a result of telling her man to wash dishes in front of his own father (mind you, this is assuming that the man washes the dishes all the time without complaining), that means it is not natural. All you ladies running your mouth, how would you feel if you visit your lady friend and she is underneath the car changing oil and washing the car while her husband is inside playing XBOX 360?

platinumnk:
Please can u take your bush sef out?!!! Siena is more of a man than you will ever be

You think Washing a Car or changing the oil makes you a man?
I wash my Parents Cars every Sat, and clean and wipe the insides
Also when its time for oil change, I drive each one, change the oil, and bring it back.

So u can stuff your face bushman, 

Na waa for you ooo. Well, you know what, when your husband's parents, friends, and family are around, say for celebratory dinner or whatever, I want you to tell your husband to go and wash the dishes in the kitchen. Even said, when your husband invites his friends for a football game, tell him to was the dishes when all the guys have finished eating. For all you ladies who lack home training and decency, i advise you to find a weak man that will do your dishes and wash your pata.

shesi:
i think you'll find that substituting "black people" with "women" in that essay up there doesn't make quite as much difference as you might think. try it.

I am not here to write fiction but speak the truth. Substituting black with women is distorting history and reality.

shesi:
well the black man had the option to get out of the bus and walk to his destination. or take a taxi. no?

Walk five hundred miles? You must be kidding me.The questions are whether you have the option to perform the act, or whether you will face a severe remedy for failure to perform the act? There are big time differences. And most importantly, black people were treated differently from white people; it was unequal treatment. While white people could sit anywhere, black people had no choice but to sit in the back of the bus--they could not sit in the front of the bus; if they sat in the front they were subject to imprisonment. Here, the women has a choice of whether to wash the dishes, and her man has set a standard with which he applies to all his women, so there is no unequal oppressive treatment. The man has not said he will beat her up or choke her to death if she does not do it, so she is not facing any severe punishment for not washing the dishes.

shesi:
right when you used the word "telling" instead of say "asking"

when did telling a black person to sit at the back of the bus become oppression? Answer: when you weren't giving him a choice.

"Telling" or "asking" does not make a difference, as failure to comply will not result in a grave remedy. It is not oppression as long as she has a choice of doing it or not. Even said, she has a choice of leaving the relationship and finding another man. When black people were told to sit at the back of the bus, they faced criminal penalties or imprisonment for failure to comply. You can't compare apples and oranges, Mr. man. Get your analogies straight.

In this matter, the man is the one being commandeered to do the dishes. While it does not appear that he has completely divested himself of dish-washing duties, all that man is asking for is to reserve the discretion to wash the dishes or not, not being commandeered to do some dishes.

shesi:
that's exactly what i'm saying! it's not black and white but for the most part yes. all i see if the correlation. i haven't taken the time to study why that is. but i can hazard a guess. the more educated and exposed a man becomes, the more enlightened he becomes. And the more enlightened a man is, the less likely he is to accept a status quo that oppresses a fellow human being.

And let's be clear, this type of thinking belongs to a time when women were oppressed. And it's not an african thing either. All societies that severely oppressed their women have this in common. Hindus, Chinese, you name it.

many of the arguments these guys make are the same arguments white supremacists made in the era of slavery. think about that.

the world moves forward. we make mistakes. we realise the mistakes, and we correct them. we don't continue with the mistakes under the umbrella of tradition. that's BS.

Lakukulala. Wonders shall never end. So when did telling your lady to wash dishes become oppression?

I hope the real men affront this contemporary, ill-defined feminism movement, which is an implicit international consensus by some women aimed at usurping the powers that has been bestowed on men by God. Women don't complain when they flaunt their feminine allure to get free meals on dates and have men buy them things--these women say it is perfectly fine because they are ladies and  should be treated like one, right! But when you tell these same women to get in the kitchen and act like a lady by washing the dishes they complain about the gender roles, but they don't seem to have a problem with gender roles when it is time for a man to pay for their meals on dates. You can't cherry pick to be a lady only when it is beneficial to you. Se you grab? You gotta make up your mind. If you do not want gender roles, as in here by not washing dishes in the kitchen, that same woman should be ready to get down dirty and do some yard work, wash cars, and all the other chores. Lets kukuma split the chores 50/50.

shesi:
and you sir, are a complete idiot.

on the issue though, i notice a fundamental difference in opinion(and perhaps upbringing) which i believe is strongly correlated with the man's level of education and exposure.
Some men believe it is the duty of their wives to worship them and massage their egos. so to speak. i don't belong to this group. for those of you who do, answer me this; WHY? just give me 1 reason.

What it the correlation with the opinion and the level of education?; in other words, are you saying the less educated men are more likely to demand more from their women, or is it vice versa? Clarify.

Will she assist in washing the car and changing the oil, assuming he does those things at home? Why is it so hard for some of these women to comprehend that there are certain chores which are 'ladylike' and certain chores which are 'gentlemenlike.' How do you expect the king of the house to be washing dishes when there is a queen? And how do you expect a queen to be outside washing the car when there is a King in the muthaf'ing house?

It is amazing how he jets to Saudi for treatment if he sneezes while leaving the health system at home in a dire state.

I can see why some folks choose to become vegetarians or vegans.

rokiatu:
point of correction, men do not know what women want

OK. If we assume that men do not know what women want, do women know what they want for themselves? You just showed from your earlier statement that you are among the legions of women who don't know what they want.

sista-jay:
Me I like lots and lots of attention from men, infact i thrive on it. 

You are a typical woman. Your words claim to like a particular behavior, as in here where you claim to like attention from men; but your actions usually reward the opposite of the behavior you claim you like, men who pay you the least attention. The ones who pay you the most attention would be termed  bug-a-boos and obnoxious idiots; but the ones who pay you the least attention, and ones who may even apportion their attention among a multitude of chicks, will be the one that you chicks will be dieing for. Abeg! Ask any girl they will tell you they want a nice guy. But where do nice guys finish? You know the answer.

rokiatu:
I don't like it when a guy give me too much attention.
and it's not attractive either when he doesn't give me any attention at all, 

At least you are conceding that women are usually confused and don't know what they want. Keeping it real sista! It's no biggie, though.

Law as a career is not just about picking up one case and reading it and saying, voila, I can read it. The truth is that while you think you know what you are reading, you are not grasping the relevant issues because your mind is not trained to read cases. Law is a different language that involves complex reasoning that is out of this world, and it involves legal writing--another subject that involves reading dense facts, searching cases, and using inductive reasoning to extract relevant laws and creating analysis that will change someone's mind. Then you have to read under minimal time hundreds and thousands of cases, trying to understand elusive legal doctrines that can make you run on the street and become a madman.

Bottom line, you can never really understand the difficulty associated with the study of law, unless you have studied it, at least in Yankee, where the study of law is offered as a doctorate degree, and is about analysis and application with incidental memorization of thousands of legal doctrines. It is not uncommon for law students to become alcoholics and drug addicts and depressed. People who study maths usually sleep well and have good lives. To compare the difficulty, go to a university and compare the amount of stress law students and mathematics students undergo; and then you be the judge.