₦airaland Forum

gerg:
Bro, I thought you guys agreed to leave this thread for them? this argument will never end. And Hundreds of them are still on pending waiting to join. They have the population. But that doesn't make any different to an Ika man.

You are right. #Out

OILSOUP:
The fundamental point he was trying to make which u seem to miss is that they are all part of the Igbo language. The words in Igbo and Igboid groups together forms part of a speech.

Since colonialism and utility of the English language, their have been lack of development of Igbo Language. Speech can be classified into eight different parts. The eight parts of speech are nouns, pronouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, conjunctions, prepositions, and interjections.

Understanding the different parts of speech is important in understanding how words can and should be joined together to make sentences that are both grammatically correct and readable. An understanding of the parts of speech is also important for knowing how to correctly punctuate sentences.

In other words, Chi and Ehi are both variation of speech within the cluster of words that constitute the igbo language. He demostrated further using Olisakwe and Osakwe. The sound denotes that both words are from the same cluster of igbo language.

In otherwords, to access the full vocabulary variation of speech, u need an institution to pull together words from the same linguistic cluster group of igbo and igboid speakers. Wen we develop the igbo language in this direction, even the words the ikwerre speak will no longer be elusive becos regardless of how they speak it, they are igbo words, with igbo meaning.

Right now the igbo language is in decline and all the variants are not universally decoded for all igbo and igboid speakers to understand.

If this was his point, then I don't understand why my comment had to be quoted by him to make the point when all I said was that the terms 'chi' and 'chuku' came to Ika in the last century.

Abagworo:
Chi and Ehi are the same language and different dialects meaning guardian spirit not God as recently translated. Ehikwe and Chikwe are as variant as Olisakwe and Osakwe. They are all Igbo language.

I'm replying you because I know you to be more knowledgeable than most Igbo posters here, and because as an Oguta man you are more or less a brother to Anioma folks.

Ehi is not Igbo. You know it is Bini. But that is even besides the point. The point here is that the use of chi in Ikaland (whether it is a variant of ehi or not) began only in the 20th century.

In fact, 'chi' is very odd as far as Ika language is concerned. That is why instead of 'ichi echichi' an Ika man will say 'iki ekiki', instead 'ochichi' (governance), an Ika man will say 'okiki', instead of 'echi' (tomorrow), an Ika man will say 'eki'.

'Ch' followed by an 'i' is fundamentally un-Ika.

Cire80:
Name of God in Ika is Oselobue but some people say chuku. Chuku from all indication is more recent and mostly used by the younger generation. But there is no Chi at all. Ika believe in Ehi as a personal God. and there's a history surrounding it.

Bros, people who don't know that chi and chuku filtered into Ika only in the 20th century with the advent of Christianity don't deserve your time as far as the topic of Ika or Anioma history is concerned. Leave them. When they finish talking they can come and take their 'ancestral lands' (as Pazienza calls it.) Shey we will be on our land and watch them take it?

I am amused. Stay in Ogidi and continue to pontificate on the history of a people you don't know anything about, you hear?

Just look at the gymnastics you were playing with Nkalu and Afikpo. In one breath you say they are Igbo. In another breath you admit they came from across the Cross River, but somehow they were Igbo, even though they were Ekoi. Because Abiriba!

In one breath you dismiss the place name Ala/Allah, but want to latch unto the place-names of the villages that sound Igbo to you.

And somehow I am the one with pre-conceived notions, twisting facts to suit my narrow monolithic perceptions.

For your information, only two of the five Illah villages are believed by Illah people to have Igbo names, and one of those two immigrated from Oguta. But of course everything sounds Igbo to you people....

laudate:
Don't you owe RedboneSmith and some other chaps here, an apology for that false info you just posted?

Does he even understand what is wrong with what he posted? I doubt it.

IPA means International Phonetic Alphabet, and SAMPA means Speech Assessment Methods Phonetic Alphabet. They are acronyms. They are written before two different pronunciations of 'land' to indicate two different phonetic alphabet systems for pronouncing the word. But this uncomprehending simpleton can't even use the internet right.

Look, akpasukwana m iwe this hot afternoon.

ariesbull:
now coming to igala

the igalla word for land is Ipa or Sampa pronunciation: IPA: /lænd/ lænd , SAMPA: l{nd /l{nd/

When i spot idiots, I stop talking to them. This comment just tells me you are not a smart person at all, hence this is where I end all correpsondence with you as far as this thread is concerned. When I talked about Ala being an Igala word, I don't remember saying it means land in Igala. I clearly stated what it meant. But your ass is just too stupid to follow a simple explanation.

Ipa or sampa is not even the Igala word for land. Where did your stupid ass get that from? Land in Igala is ane.

Nigga, fvck off and don't come back quoting or mentioning me cause i won't respond.

lawani:
THE IDEA OF A WRITTEN SCRIPT WITH WHICH PEOPLE SPEAKING DIFFERENT LANGUGES CAN COMMUNICATE IS VERY GOOD. IT IS USED IN CHINA. IT IS CALLED AROKO IN YORUBA BUT NOT DEVELOPED LIKE NSIBIDI. SUCH A SCRIPT SHOULD BE TAUGHT GLOBALLY. THEN THE BRITISH REALLY HELPED IGBOS! IF NOT FOR THE BRITISH WHERE WILL IGBOS BE TODAY? IGBOS ARE THE MAJOR AFRICAN GROUP OPENED UP BY EUROPEAN COLONISATION AFTER THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF LOCKING IN THEMSELVES WITH THE PHILOSOPHY 'IGBO ENWEGHI EZE'. IGBOS NEED TO BE GRATEFUL TO THE BRITISH MORE THAN OTHERS. YORUBA, HAUSA, ETC WERE ALREADY MODERN EARTH NATIONS WITH HUGE CITIES BEFORE COLONISATION BUT NOT SO FOR THE MAJORITY OF IGBOS SAVE AROCHUKWU. THAT IS WHY IN AFRICA, IGBOS ARE THE BIGGEST GROUP TO BE OPENED UP OR UPGRADED BY EUROPEANS

Bros, shut up

ariesbull:
But ala means land in Igbo and not what you said in igalla

Look sometimes, you people have to pause and think before posting. It is people like you that say Ubani (Bonny) means wealth of land, when 'ani' doesn't even mean 'land' in the southern Igbo lands. Don't be trying to use your Owerri or Umuahia dialect to explain our name. We don't call land ala; we call it ani. The Ala i'm talking about is not even pronounced like your ala for land. Our name, Ala/Illah means exactly what i told you it means. It is an Igala word

Olumbanasa is purely an Igbo term meaning voice of the seven towns or villages


So how come the igalla tarred naming their towns Igbo name and forgetting igalla names

Olumbanasaa is an Igbo word, I agree. It doesn't mean 'voice of seven towns'.
The way you keep translating these words tells me you are an Imo or Abia man, and you don't know the Anambra River/Oshimili zone very well. If it meant 'voice of seven towns', the name would have been Onumbanasaa, not Olumbanasaa, going by the Igbo dialect of the area.

Olu means 'riverine', and was in many circumstances used by both Oshimili people and Aguleri to refer to Igala people, especially of the Ibaji district. Olumbanasaa means 'Seven Olu (Igala in this case) communities'. That is the collective name their Igbo neighbours gave them. The individual communities of Olumbanasaa all have names that are for the most part, if not completely, Igala names.

vicenzo:
3.No. Originally non Igbo speaking parts of Ebonyi remain non Igbo speaking till today.


4. No, you Igala Illah and Oko that got Igbonized over the time by Igbo influx theory cannot stand, if we factor in the fact that right there in Anioma, a Yoruboid people surrounded all over by Igbo speaking groups, retained their Yoruboid language and uses Igbo as second language, and Ebu, just a stone away from Illah, retained Igalla as first language and Igbo as a second despite being surrounded by Igbo speaking people.

It doesn't take long to see the anomaly and untenability of the idea of Igala speaking Illah that totally abandoned her Original Igalla dialect for Igbo one, without retaining Igala as a second language, when we also factor in the fact that Olumbanasaa communities in Anambra surrounded by Igbos are still Igala speaking today, and that in Nzam an aboriginally Igbo speaking community that got invaded by Igalas, Igbo remain the first language, with Igalla the second language. The Igalla invaders will not let their language die.

'Why wasn't Olukumi Igbonised?' 'Why wasn't Ebu Igbonised?' W'hy wasn't Olumbanasaa Igbonised?' It's like you do not understand the historical as well as the economic factors that drive emigration and determine the destinations of emigrants. That's why you ask these questions.

Of all these communities (Olukumi villages, Olumbanasa villages, Ebu, Illah, Oko, Asaba), Illah, Asaba and Oko are the only ones that successfully grew into substantial centres for trade in the precolonial period. Olumbanasaa is till today an inaccessible backwater place. Many people in Anambra don't even know it exists. Ebu has remained a small fishing community. Olukumi is still a poorly known enclave tucked away in Aniocha. Even my Obiaruku friend who claims to know Anioma like the back of his hand shouted "Nooo!" when i asked him if he knew about a place in Anioma where Yoruba is spoken. Olukumi remains an obscure place even today. Olukumi people I meeet are surprised when I express familiarity about them.

In contrast to these places, Asaba, Illah, and to some extent Oko were already attractive places even in precolonial times. They were all important centres of trade. They presented more attraction to immigrant elements (i.e., Igbos).

Asking why Ebu,Olumbanasaa, Olukumi were not Igbonised despite being today surrounded by Igbo-speaking elements is like asking why Basques were not Latinized or why Kabyle Berbers were not Arabized. The answer lies in history: How accesssible/attractive were their regions? What economic benefits did they present to immigrants?


Okay, I think I have time for some of the other issues/points you raised;

1. Afikpo had non-Igbo aborigines. Have you heard of the aboriginal Nkalu of Ehugbo? You haven't read their history as well as you should. Ngwa people themselves have told me about Mgboko aborigines in parts of Ngwa who were Annang. Ngwa people told me this, and I don't doubt it.

2. Arochukwu is not the only part of Igboland won by war. Go and read about the Abakiliki area and see how that area became Igbo. And this is a point I should have made earlier. I should have clearly distinguished between making war and creating empires. Igbos did not create empires, I agree. But they were not below making wars and seizing territories from their neighbours. Ask the Izii. Ask the Ikwo. Ask the Ezza.

Even in Illah, we have traditions of aggressive people from the East called the Ukala who used to make incursions into our territory until a certain Edaiken helped us curb their excesses. So don't tell me Igbos never tried to fight their way into a neighbouring territory.

3. My Bonny example still stands as an example of how non-combatant in-comers can cause language shift. The satellite villages that still retain the ibani language are the ones that didn't receive such incomers in nearly the same amount. All the important chiefs and important slave dealers lived in Mainland Bonny. Consequently, that is where most of the Igbo slaves went, and as a result that is where Igbonisation advanced farthest. Besides, Bonny wasn't an important slave centre long enough for thorough-going Igbonisation through slave populations to occur. That's why I said initially, "If the slave trade hadn't ended when it did..."

4. Names of settlements are often indicators of who was living where first. Many cities in America still carry the native American names of its earlier inhabitants. Same is true of Australia where there are many towns with aboriginal names. Illah and Oko are without any shred of doubt Igala names. Illah is Ala actually; Illah being an anglicization. Ala means temporary settlement, meaning that its first Igala settlers were migratory in nature, coming there to farm, trade, fish, and then returning to their permanent home at the end of the farming, trading, fishing seasons. With time they began to stay there more permanently, but Ala (temporary settlement) stuck as its name. Note that one of the Igala-speaking villages in Olumanasaa is also named Ala. In fact, some of the town names in Olumbanasaa are also mirrored downriver. There is Odekpe in Olumbanasaa. There is also Odekpe in Ogbaru. Interestingly, Odekpe in Ogbaru also claims Igala origin. Oko means farmland in Igala. It was originally founded as a farm. These things are known to the people there.

As I have said, i personally do not have issues with being addressed as Igbo. But if you want to talk about history, then Yes, my town was an Igala colony that became Igbonised. Even Osita Mordi the ika guy most of you see as a god does not doubt that Igalas and Edos got to parts of Anioma before Igbos. His argument rather is that those who have become Igbonised should identify as Igbos. Some of us agree with him, some of us don't. But it is really our debate to have. It doesn't concern southeasterners.

ChinenyeN:
Nawa for myself. That is certainly my mistake. Here I was accusing you of not reading well, only to end up being guilty myself in turn.

Hahahaha. Na mistake. It is allowed.

vicenzo:
Had to correct this falsehood and misrepresentation of facts.

Marseille was conquered by the Julius Caesar, the Roman emperor, and today, the language we know as French is a corrupted pidgin version of Roman language.
The language Marseille speaks today is a result of subjugation and invasion by Romans.

Greeks again were invaders and Empire builders that invaded and ruled Egypt, likewise Alexandria. They were never the majority in Egypt and their language naturally had to give way for those of the Arab early invaders who were then natives of the land.

All the examples you gave, were all built on invasion and Empire building where by the language Of the Empire builders swallowed those of the invaded, or where those of the invaded swallowed those of the empire builders who were in small number and had to assimilate into the language of the invaded.

Questions for you:
Was there ever an Igbo empire in the past?
At what point did this Igbo empire invaded non Igbo speaking clans in Western Igboland today and turned them into Igbo speaking enclaves.

It is oversimplification to assume that language changing is always due to invasion and conquest. Rome also conquered many other people who did not adopt a Latin language, e.g., Greece. The Arabs also conquered many people who did not adopt Arabic, eg., Northern India. If invasion and conquest is the most important factor, all these places should have switched their languages. Heck, Africans today should all be speaking solely English, French, Spanish and Portuguese.

Sometimes, in fact, in many cases, peaceful influx of people can drastically alter or even change the spoken language of a settlement more than armies and conquests can, especially if the in-comers have a large population.

Greek was already dying as a spoken language in Marseilles by the time Caesar got there. Granted, Romanization speeded up the process, but it would have happened anyway because Marseilles is just one colony in a sea of Gallic speakers. It was inevitable that they would get swallowed up.

Also you are wrong about Alexandria and Arabs. The Greek spoken by the founders of Alexandria had already been replaced by Coptic (the language spoken in other parts of Egypt at the time) before the Arab invasions. I don't need to tell you that this replacement had nothing to do with war, and everything to do with the strength of numbers.

The Igala colonies of the Lower Niger faced the same predicament viz-aviz the Igbo. Igboland was/is one of the most densely population areas in all of Africa, and as a result people were always moving out of its congested areas to people neighbouring sparsely populated areas. Some Igbo areas today are known to have formerly belonged to other ethnic groups, e.g, parts of Abakiliki region, Arochukwu, even Afikpo and parts of Ngwa. It shouldn't be hard to understand how Asaba, Illah and Oko among others could have started out as small Igala outposts and then be swamped by influx of Igbo-speakers from the East.

Look at what Ika-speakers had done to the Esan language of Ekpon. It did not involve war and conquest. Look at what Igbo people who came in as slaves did to the language of Bonny. It did not involve war and conquest. If the slave trade did not stop when it did, perhaps even the outlying settlements that still speak Ibani will all be speaking Igbo today. Look at what migrant Igbo farmers are currently doing to the Igala language of Akpanya. If the current trend doesn't change, that town could become a full-blown Igbo-speaking town in a matter of decades.

So don't tell me war and conquests are the only way languages change. I'm too knowledgeable to be told that. I know population strength and large-scale immigrations can equally do the trick.

.

hammerF:
I have better things to do than engage in the crap ur saying. A group that Yoruba dont even share a border with.

Ebira that u share a border with are almost speaking igbo and answering igbo names.

I hope u know Mercy Johnson name is Ozioma? She is Ebira.

What do you mean 'u share border with'? I am not Yoruba.

If you want to know what Yoruba and Igala languages actually are like, I can send you materials to read for yourself.

Coming to Ozioma, the name doesn't mean 'Good news' in Ebira, the similarity in sound is coincidental.

Does Yoruba share bother with Olukumi in Aniocha. Even the Itsekiri are seperated from mainstrean Yoruba by some Ijaw groups. Yet they speak Yoruboid languages.

hammerF:
Wettin Idoma language go come tell u? Yoruba has no claims or relations to Igala, that falsehood must stop.

Again, the materials to study both languages are available. This matter is not even open for debate any more. The facts are out. Igala is a Yoruboid language.

hammerF:
Point of correction Igala and yoruba languages are not similar, that is a lie.

Igala and Yoruba languages are more than similar. They are sister languages. That is a well-established fact. Have you looked at both languages?

cheruv:

Well,you're right and wrong at the same time
My mother is an ukwangwa...I was born there...and I've been there all my life except for since last year I've been at owerre.
So you can say am like Nzeogwu...he's from okpanam but his behavior and language isnt different from the Hausa man next to him.
All these stuffs made me feel proud to start on that premise.."as an ukwangwa..bla bla bla"
Normally I don't usually involve myself in Anioma issues even though as one, I knew I had to be kept abreast of developments at home. But this trend of Idu people speaking up for Anioma and claiming rubbish, thereby making look stupid not only before Eastern Igbos but other Nigerians got me all worked up bkos as a campaigner for Anioma state, I've seen that all these useless identity issues we're having isn't helping at all.
Like I told ehikwe on the other side, am free as long as Igbo issues are concerned to claim West or East bkos I've equal stakes on both sides of the Ohimiri river

Cool story. *filing nails*

cheruv:
Is that the best you can come up with to discredit me?
Anyway for the records am an ORU/OLU from ndokwa East but I lived in Aba for a long time. So I relate with the two Igbo mentalities, the mentality of the SE Igbo and the mentality of the SS Igbo.
Its been long I travelled to Anioma but I make sure I keep abreast with developments at home and Anioma in general

I have lived in Abakiliki for a long time, and I have never started a sentence with "as an Izii man..." No one writes like, except someone who is trying to tell you that that is what he is by tribe. An Ohuhu living in Aba will never say, "As an Ngwa man...", an Echie man in Port Harcourt will never say, "As an Ikwerre man..." What you may hear is "As an Aba boy" or "as a PH boy", indicating ties to the particular city he was raised in. That you did not write "as an Aba boy", but instead wrote "As an ukwangwa" speaks volumes. So that line about you living there a long time blah blah is an attempt at saving face after being caught impersonating. It's okay, we get it. This debate is important to you and you want to win.

Where in Ndokwa East are you from sha? I speak the dialect of that axis pretty decently. Let's communicate in vernacular.

De ele odi, nwene malu?

gregyboy:
ekemeku war is over hypped [b]we the benins started that war[/b]but we nevered prepare for it we fought man to man for months many british soldiers died even though we were still few in numbers we nevered played hide and seek as the ekumeku soldiers did i still have the believe that if it were to b dat benin was ready for that war british soldiers would have ran but neverd the lesss after benin was defeated benin was still fighting the british not in mass but individually before they later left and the commander who banished oba to exile died of madness months later so with the queen of england bcus of benin

What is this? What does Benin have to do with Ekumeku? The guy who tried to link Ekumeku with Nri was talking nonsense. But you are talking nonsense too. Ekumeku was a resistance movement by some communities in Aniocha/Oshimil and Ika against European traders and later colonial administration. Neither Benin nor Nri had anything to do with it.

gerg:
There was nothing like Igbo few decades or century ago but the whole South East have a deep sense of brotherhood even with some little issues they have but Ika, Enuani and Ukwani have always been known and classified as one people. different people have always have terms they identify Anioma area collectively from the olden days.

Please, what are these terms?

Cire80:
your comments make me laugh. All your explanations doesn't indicate any form of kinship. If you are not an Anioma, don't come here and start telling us about Anioma oneness which you would never understand except you feel it. I'm from Anioma and I know my people well, especially those of still in Delta and Edo. You can't tell me about people I've been with all my life even my life outside the Shores of Nigeria, I still feel close to home because I associate with my people.

Ah, you live outside Nigeria. It makes sense now. Oshimili is my ancestral home. You will never know them more than i do. In fact, i am driving to Okwe this evening to hang out with my goons. And i am telling you as someone who eats from the same plate with the indigenes that they connect more with Ogbaru than they connect with Ika. They understand Ogbaru dialect far, far more easily than they understand Ika, and they understand that they share a deeper level of brotherhood with Ogbaru than they share with Ika. The riverine areas of Oshimili belong to the same geo-cultural entity with Ogbaru - they are all called Olu people. Ika is not Olu.

Before Dennis Osadebay in the 1950s or so, there was nothing like Anioma. Anioma is nothing but a political coalition of "Igboid" ethnic groups who found themselves in the Midwestern Region. You people in this age have turned it into what it was never intended for.

Cire80:
The oneness is recent? Lol. No need responding to this. What do you know about Oko? Oko that I know are greatly Igala. Even more Igala than Asaba.

And what do you know about Ogbaru? You think it is only in Anioma that you have communities with some Bini or Igala elements? Go to the southeast, especially Anambra and Enugu and ask them about their history, and you'll be surprised how many communities have Igala roots.

Ossomala and Oko are brothers, with Oko being the elder brother. Ask any Oko man about what i have just written. Oko and Ossomala share much more kinship than Oko and Agbor will ever share. Anioma oneness is recent and artificial.

Cire80:
Those people are not Enu-ani but they're Anioma in diaspora. There's no way an Asaba man will feel more at home with Ogbaru man than an Ika man. Not possible at all. Except maybe someone that grew up outside Anioma and is completely out of touch with his people

I do not believe you know what you are talking about. Anioma 'oneness' is artificial and very recent. The kinship between communities in Enuani (especially the Oshimili part of Enuani) and Ogbaru is much more organic and dates back to antiquity.

If you think an Oko man from Oshimili-Enuani will feel more at home with an Agbor man than with an Ossomala man from Ogbaru, then you do not know Oko and you do not know Ossomala.

Ngozi123:
According to these websites, outside of Delta State, the Enuani dialect is spoken in Onitsha, Obosi, Ogbaru in Anambra State and the Ndoni people in Rivers State. There'll be some slight variances but I think that the dialects are similar enough to be grouped as one otherwise why would be listed as so?

[url]http://www.ibusa.net/enuani%20-%20ibusa.htm[/url]
http://www.liquisearch.com/enuani_dialect

Okay, thanks. But i think the authors of the articles in the links would have been more correct if they had said Enuani dialect is related to those dialects rather than saying they are the same. Ndoni speaks Ukwuani-Aboh, rather than Enuani. Onitsha diverges significantly from Enuani, although they still show strong links. One example: Onitsha doesn't call cow 'eshi' like they do in Enuani, but 'evi'.

I don't know how they speak in Obosi and Ogbaru, so I cannot comment on that.

Ngozi123:
You do know that Enuani- the dialect- is not restricted to Delta State, right?

Which other communities speak Enuani?

This has happened before at least once, when someone said here that he wanted to learn Agbor (Ika). Go and learn Igbo, commenters said.

Be honest, guys. This is just a subtle (not even that subtle) way of holding that 'You are Igbo people' banner over the heads of people who have expressly rejected it.

You don't even know if the guy can speak Igbo, but only wants to master the distinct speech of his own community. No, you don't. You're only interested in pushing this Igbo thing. That is what is so annoying.

"Going to a better place"?! Do you know what the mortality rate on slave plantations was like?!!

Afam4eva:
Can you substantiate this claim.

Having lived in the south-south, the south-west and the south-east, it is my impression that southeasterners have the poorest command of Pidgin of the three zones. And I mean those southeasterners born and raised in the southeast.

hammerF:
Dispute it, we dey wait.

Dispute it? LOL. You come up with an utterly utterly ridiculous story, and I am supposed to indulge you by typing a winding refutation? Who get that kind time?

It is bullcrap; that's all the disputing you're getting from me. Search for the meaning of Eweka online (if you don't have access to 'Short History of Benin' by Egharevba) and learn.

hammerF:
If this is ur assertion then it is probable that Benin was established by the Aniomas and the aborigines of Bini were Igbos from Nri that migrated west.

They met other tribes (yorubas) mixed and created the lingua franca u call bini.

My guess is that an Igbo woman gave birth to the Binis as is the case with the Igalas.

This is probable given that similar circumstances exist in Rivers with the Ikwere.

U have not yet answered wat Eweka means in Bini language.

Braah, you've got to stop embarrassing your people like this? Whatzaldis?

Anyway, if you have bothered to read any of the books about Bini history, there wouldn't have been any need to ask me what Eweka means, because it it clearly stated in Bini history.