₦airaland Forum

That face could be from any corner of Nigeria.

You look almost exactly like a friend of mine from the Niger Delta region of Nigeria tho' (His 'tribe' is Ibibio.) He even has a small goatee just like yours.

ariesbull:
All community that make up olumbanasa don't have Igbo name but what is olumbanasa....? I was thinking that you are intelligent


Olumbanasa is an Igbo name meaning the voice of seven towns ..Yet you said that they don't have Igbo name but chose Igbo name as a group.

Are you really ok ?

Tufiakwa

You are the guy that thought Ipa and Sampa are Igala words for 'land', aren't you? Please, have you gotten any smarter than the last time you quoted me? I just want to be sure you are not here to waste my time again.


(Okay, after a quick perusal of the two mentions from you, I don't see our conversation going any differently than the last time. So I am wasting no time on you. Run along.)

Dhugal:
*sigh*
This is much like taking candy from a child.
Hellooooo!
Ever heard of the Northern Crusades,the Livonia Crusade,the Teutonic Knights?.
Only much of Lithuania escaped,and that by merging with Poland after beating back the Knights.
You're a gift that just keep giving.
Stop typing and go hit the books for a while,please.

Any local lord can raise armies in medieval Europe?.
Are you for real?.
Which and which local lord did that and when,pray tell?.
Don't mention William,he was a Duke.The equivalent of a small king or sovereign grand duke today.

One example out of like thousands. Count Charles of Anjou, a vassal Lord under the king of France. Conquered for himself a kingdom in Italy. In fact, the king of France was, in feudal times, so much in fear of his vassal lords that his word meant very little outside of the small area around Paris.

What's all that about crusades and knights and Lithuania? Are you under the assumption that you are telling me something I did not know?

My premise was and is that the HRE's imperial authority meant practically nothing, and German communities, some of them as small as 300 people, operated without any deference to it and regarded themselves as fully independent in every sense of the word.

Igboid:
No, you tell me.

Were there migrations from Imo, Abia,Ebonyi, Enugu, Oyigbo, Asa, Ndoki,Egbema into Agbor?

Where does that leave your ridiculous "Populous ancient Igbo people whose Population spilled into Anioma" story?

You see how you make a public fun of yourself?

Again, ridiculous question. Don't even know how we are talking about Ebonyi and Ndoki here. You are simply being absurd.

But since y'all respect Onwuejeogwu so much, I know you have heard his theory about movement of people from the Owerri zone ( a well- populated area, both in pre-colonial times and today) into Ikaland.

Dhugal:
You see your life?.
What you called an "Empire in name only" controlled armies,sacks cities n kings at will,yet have limited powers?.That shit you're smoking is very strong,I tell you.

BTW,it's William the Conqueror.Not Norman.
The invasion was tagged Norman invasion cos he was Duke of Normandy,wielding powers much like a king in his territory,n was supported by Norman nobility.Capetian France,in it's early days,was a confederation,with the King more of a figurehead and real powers residing with the dukes and counts.It was Phillip II Augustus that really changed that.That's an aside.

The Austrian empire was REFORMED much later in history into the Austro-Hungarian empire,under Franz Jozef.Austrian empire had existed for centuries before that and was in fact the successor state to the HRE.

Oh,the Germanisers,as you call them,established the Baltic states,which to all intents n purposes are still Slavic in outlook n somewhat in language.
Try again.

Any lord with enough coins to hand out could raise large armies in feudal Europe.

No. Germanisers did not establish the Baltic states. Balts (close cousins of the Slavs) did. Germanisers didn't go further than Brandenburg and Prussia. You are a history student. Go check out how those two areas became German, and come and tell me how it was all due to the Imperial might of an all-German emperor.

Igboid:
So you mean, Ebonyi, Enugu, Abia and Imo, Oyigbo, Egbema, Ndoki, Asa, are all sources of your phantom Igbonization of Agbor that the Bini oral history failed to capture?

Or you just had to add them all to your fable Ancient populous Igbo nation whose population spilled into Agbor and escaped the notice of Bini historians?

You are a comedian.

Ogbahu/ Ogbaru as a matter of fact were inhabitants of western Igboland that were pushed back eastwards across the great river by the Edo imperialistic ripple created in Ancient Western Igboland.

Okay, you are actually being downright silly at this point.

I can't quote your comment for some reason.

I doubt that someone majoring in medieval European history is unaware of the severe limitations of the Holy Roman Empire. You're most likely an enthusiast and nothing more. Many small-time adventurers held the pope captive at various points in history. Norman the Conqueror wasn't even a king, but a duke when he overran England. So I don't know how sacking a territory could be proof of the imperial might of the Holy Roman Emperor.

If it wasn't late, I would have gone to my study and quoted copiously to demonstrate that the HRE was an empire only in name, and played ZERO role in the Germanization of former slavic territories in Brandenburg and Prussia. The Germanisers were migrant farmers and a band of knights - The Teutonic knights.

Austria-Hungary came much much later in history to be of any relevance to the issue at hand.

Igboid:
Lol! But you are grouping the entire Igbo speaking region as one, and now you want to divide the slavs?

Well, the westernmost Igbo areas, the Ogbarus/Idemilis were and are still less populated than the Edos. I don't know why you are factoring the whole SE.
Since you want us to go that route.

You are not as smart as you think.

This would make sense if Ogbaru is the source of 'Igbonization' of the Anioma area. As it turns out, it is not. Ogbaru is even very much like Anioma, in the sense that she is a recipient of population movements from the populated Igbo hinterland. . Idemmili, as much of the communities in Anambra outside the Olu (riverine areas) has high population density.

Igboid:
How exactly did Bini oral story miss out on such a great migration that changed the language of Agbor for ever!
You have failed to Answer this question.
The answer being that no such migration ever occurred.

Your Germanic-Slavic analogy is also flawed, as the Slavic have always been more populous since antiquity, more than the Germanics in Europe.

The Westernmost Slavic areas (which were the areas Germanised) were less populated than the Germanic areas. I don't even know why you are factoring in the whole Slavic-speaking world as if anybody is suggesting Slavic Russia was Germanised.

Dhugal:
Wrong.
The Holy Roman Empire was a Germanic empire.
From Charlemagne to the Hohenstaufens,down to the Habsburgs.
Don't try to rewrite European history here,mister.

"The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy nor Roman nor an Empire" --- Voltaire.

The Holy Roman Empire was an Empire only in name. It was a ridiculous attempt to keep the memory of the dead Roman Empire alive. The free cities, and palatines of what is now Germany did not give a hoot about the 'Emperor'. German was not an Empire before the Iron Chancellor, Bismarck unified the German territories (except for Austria) under the king of Prussia. Read an actual European history book, sir.

Igboid:
That's the problem.
Every story about Ominijie/Igidi are through Bini tinted glass.
Bini invaded where we know as Agbor today, established the kingdom and influenced all the oral history of the place we have today.

If an Igbo is to tell the story of Equatorial guinea today, he will call it "Panya", it doesn't necessarily mean that's what the people called themselves.
My point is that we can't use a bini tainted and corrupted oral history to unravel the truth about agbor. I'd rather look at the language.
And until you provide history of Igbo mass migration to Agbor, so much to change the demographics of the area in history, language, in this case remain the best logical tool to analyze Agbor.
The German infiltration of Berlin is well known in Oral history.
There is no history of Igbo infiltration of Agbor. Binis kept oral history, yet such a defining factor in history of Agbor was not recorded by them.

You need to repent from your mischievous ways.

You do know that war and imperialism by the sheer dramatic nature of those events persist in oral tradition when less dramatic events like largely peaceful and uneventful migration of farmers don't survive, right

We only have glimpses of early occupation of the Berlin area by Slavs because it was written down! It we had to rely on oral traditions alone we would probably have NOTHING to go on except place name evidence.

If you like call my activities here mischievous. It is only mischievous to you because it does not align with your own agenda. If you read my earlier comments on this very thread, I have disagreed with some Ika members of this forum. I have similarly disagreed with them on a number of issues on other threads here. I was not mischievous then.

But hold a different opinion from SE people and you become a sufferer from acute Igbophobia.

Igboid:
How would you know that Ominijie is the name of one community.
How are you sure that it wasn't a group of communities of Igbo speaking people that were referred as Ominijie, were invaded and then United by Imperialistic Edos under Agbor?
How are you sure that these people didn't have names they called themselves instead of Ominijie, but Ominijie stuck in oral history, since the Binis invaded Ominijie formed Agbor, ruled it and influenced the story of Ominijie passed down in oral history to the unborn generation?

Ominijie was not a collection of communities in the sense that Olumbanasaa is. That we know. It was just ONE community. In fact, it wasn't even as big as the present Agbor Town. It was the nucleus settlement that grew and grew to become the present Agbor.

According to Bini traditions, the name of Agbor was Igidi at the time they invaded, not Ominijie. The Ominijie era had already ended before Bini became a force to reckon with, so you can forget trying to pin the Ominijie name on Bini imperialists.

Igboid:
We know that Igbo empire never existed.
We know that Igbos nevers invaded Agbor, as no such was recorded in Agbor history.
We know that the nearest Igbo( read SE) community Onitsha is Miles away from Agbor.
We know that Agbor is a stone throw away from Bini
We have oral histories of Agbor invasion by Edos
We know that Bini was an imperialistic empire.

Yet!

Today, Agbor speaks an Igboid language

How do you explain this!

Easy answer. We have already been through this. Population movement.

The Germans had no empire before they were unified in the 19th century. How did they Germanize so much of Slavic territory at a time when they were just a bunch of tiny city-states and counties? Answer: They have a large population. They were migrating into less-populated areas. By virtue of their population they could assimilate aboriginal populations. Simple. You rely too much on the 'Empire' hypothesis as the explanation for cultural/linguistic assimilation.

Igboid:
Were the Yorubas not given the name by Hausas?
Groups had been named by their neighbors in the past.
Igala communities in Anambra has been called Olumbanasaa by Ndiigbo since antiquity and today they( Igalas) there had come to accept that name, and call themselves the same.
Does it change the fact that they are Igala speaking and not Igbo speaking even though they have an Igbo name today?
This changes nothing, except that it tells us that the Igboid people of Ominijie obviously were republican in nature, and were given the name Ominijie by their Bini neighbors, who found their ways strange, and sought to entrench imperialist and monarchical ways on them, and probably succeeded, hence the foundation of Agbor kingdom.

You only cleared that chapter of history and reinforced the Igboid nature of the ancient people of Ominijie the more.

Thanks.

Olumbanasaa is a group name, like Mbammili (Riverine people), not the name of one community. All the communities that make up Olumbanasaa don't have Igbo names. They have Igala names. Yoruba is a group name. Not the name of one community. The communities that make up the Yoruba nation don't have Hausa names.

Ominije was the name of just ONE community, not a collective group name, like Olumbanasa and Yoruba. Your analogies are deceptive.

Igboid:
Language of a people, especially non colonized ones tells a better story than the name of a place.

Moreover, you are yet to tell the house the meaning of Ominijie in Edoid language.

I gave Ominijie's meaning. You decided to overlook it. Anyway, I posted a screenshot from a Bini dictionary in my last comment.

Languages are important when we have early written records. We don't have that. There are no writing from Agbor before the 20th century. No one can speak for sure about the nature of the language spoken there in, say, 10th century.

Place-names however tell a big story. Berlin today is a German city. The place-name however points to a Slavic origin, i.e., Slavs were there before Germans arrived. We would never had known this by just studying the language Berliners speak today, or even the language they spoke 500 years ago.

Igboid:
Lol! Of course it's an indigenous Agbor name, which happens to be Igbo, because the indigenous first inhabitants of Agbor, were Igbo speaking.

What is the Agbor antiquity name for a king? Eze!
Titles means nothing, they could easily be borrowed from neighbouring groups. Nsukka people have Attahs title from Igala, yet the name for a King is Eze!

Igbanke has Enogie title from Bini, yet the name for King is Eze!

Abiriba has Enanchioken title probably from Akwa/Cross influence, yet the name for a king is Eze!


Ominijie is the name, no one knows the meaning, it has no meaning in any Edoid language.

Ogie (Bini) = ojie (Esan). G changes to J.

Ominijie = Ominigie = Without kings/ chiefs/ nobles. (A situation that perfectly defines Ominije/Agbor-Nta before the Dein era.)

I took the pain to snap this from a 1937 Bini dictionary on my laptop.

Igboid:
What's the Bini/ Edo meaning of the word "Ominijie" ?

The loosest translation I can think of is "a group with no king". The Ogele (who was the head of Agbor when it was still Ominije) was not a king but a gerontocrat. Ominigie remains a common Bini expression till today.

President, the first title of the head of Nigerian state is Clearly an English title, don't you think so?

Nigeria is a British creation. What's your point? You would have had a point if the title of the first ruler of a traditional Nigerian kingdom was clearly an English title. But using a British-created state? Are you making the point that Ominije was a Bini-created society. I am not understanding.

The word for King in Agbor is Eze, and it has remained so since antiquity till now, that in itself, tells a better story and greater story.

A better story than place-name evidence?

Ominijie, the name of the old nucleus settlement that grew into Agbor is very clearly a Bini/Ishan name, with a clear Edoid meaning.

Ogele, the title of the first ruler(s) of Ominije is clearly an Edoid title.

These facts tell their own stories.

TheSonOfMark:
"OKPOGHO/OKPOHO/AKPOHO" actually means in the Akwaibom languages. Still we don't tag the Abiribas 'Ibibiod ' like the Igbos would do in similar instances.

Because you don't use one word or a small number of words to tag languages. You use a more extensive system of comparative linguistics.

All the languages tagged 'Igboid' share deeper affinity with Igbo than just a few words.

I understand, bro. They got to you. The fear even dey your eye for this video. Stay alive. For your little kids. You have sounded the rallying call. Already you've played a key role. Hopefully the Nigerian masses can cue in by themselves.

naijalander:
Benin Paramount Chiefs Osula, Ero, Osagie, Iyamu Ine, Esogban, Obaraye, Obaseki, Obahiagbon, Eribo and others during the opening of the new court house, Benin City in 1911.

Does anyone know who the chief in a turban is? I didn't know turban-wearing had reached Benin City at that point in history.

Hmmm. From the list it appears Hausa is the most predatory language in Nigeria.

panafrican:
But Chinese letters are too weird

I am sure the Roman alphabet we use today was once thought as weird by some people.

scholes0:
Who knows the English word for Lekeleke?

Cattle egret.

I spotted some people writing Anambra here and no one asked them to switch to Igbo Izugbe. Just an observation.

Sure.

Chinese looks like a strong contender already.

Wawu.

I am not a fan of English names either. But if you're going to be preaching about English names being slave names, you better not be wearing a European hat and suit.

lawani:
REDBONE SMITH YOU ARE A BASTARD WITH NO ID, A NO NAME. HARE BRAINED BUFFOON THAT CAN NOT ADD SUBSTANCE OR VALUE TO ANYTHING. YOU ARE A WASTE OF SPACE. WHY SHOULD SOMEONE LIKE ME WITH FULL IDENTITY BE EXCHANGING WORDS WITH AN IDIOT BEHIND A PSEUDO ID LIKE YOU? I REALLY SHOULD NOT BE DOING THAT!.

But here you are, doing that. Bros, see you see market.

lawani:
YOU ARE A MAD MAN LIKE YOUR CONTEMPORARY BIG FRANCIS! IDIOT WITH EMPTY BRAIN!.

You have always been something of a lunatic --- with you harebrained distorted view of history. But initially it was subdued, and you could pretend to hold pseudo-intellectual discussions with some degree of effected politeness.

But of late you have gone quite bonkers. Rambling nonsense like a raving maniac in all block letters. . This is not an insult. You are mad. Seek psychiatric help.

Probz:
If anyone on this thread's anywhere near impotent, all fingers point at you since you're most likely not even at that stage in your life where you've even heard of a penis.

I ask again, how old are you? Is your mum aware you troll Nigerian forums aimed at people thrice your age?

I know this guy very well from Facebook and some of his write-ups on one blog like that. He done old wella. At least in terms of chronological age. His mental age is what I cannot speak of.

lawani:
YOU GUYS ARE JUST IMPOTENT DUMBFUCKS!. HRI CULTURE WAS A SOCIALLY BEHIND CULTURE! THEY WERE TOTALLY ISOLATED AND UNDER THE NOMINAL PROTECTION OF NEARBY BENIN, IGALA AND AROCHUKWU!. IS THAT NEWS TO YOU? AND YOU CALL YOURSELF SCHOLARS? WHAT A PITY!. THEY WILL HAVE TO BE CLASSED ALONG WITH KOMA PEOPLE!. ISOLATED PEOPLES.

You are a fearful mix of ethnic chauvinism, stubborn arrogance, unteachable ignorance with a touch of mental imbalance