₦airaland Forum

One month ago, soldiers from 5 Special Forces Regiment were caught in an ambush outside Bangui in the Central African Republic (CAR). So began the “Battle of Bangui”, which cost the lives of thirteen soldiers, all of whom served in the elite 1 Parachute Battalion. These soldiers fought well when the fighting began, killing an estimated 800 rebels, according to the terrible logic of battle, which is: kill or be killed. We extend our condolences to the families of the soldiers who lost their lives.

http://www.da.org.za/newsroom.htm?action=view-news-item&id=12128

This comment is coming from the opposition party, the DA. They will say anything to talk bad about the current government, but even they know our troops fought well. 800 Seleka rebels killed. Well done to the brave soldiers. For me this is the final point we South Africans should make about CAR.

https://farm9.static.flickr.com/8440/8706039199_d05a43c3a1.jpg

agaugust: https://www.saabgroup.com/Global/Documents%20and%20Images/Air/Gripen/The%20face%20of%20success_JamieHunter_440x277.jpg

welcome back....but you came too late to put out the fire in soweto !

You asked for proof that SA has more than 6 Gripen pilots. You were given proof, now you ignore the proof.
You don't acknowledge it. You are a small boy, and you are embarrassing other Nigerian posters on here who know how to have a fair debate.

agaugust: show us proof on this forum that south africa has more than 6 qualified Grippen jet pilots.

thank you for the above source you gave, it also confirms what i say...south africa NEVER flies only flies a maximum of 6 Grippens at a time, you have only 6 qualified pilots. thats why you have only 4 jets in uganda.

This is an answer given by the defence committee regarding the number of pilots. This was in 2010.
But it doesn't matter if we post this, you will still say the information is false, so there is no point arguing with you. If you had the brain matter, you would notice that all the links you post about SA having 6 pilots all quote David Maynier. I told you that guy doesn't know what he is talking about, it is his job to make the defence force look bad because he is an opposition party member. He doesn't understand that many of our Gripen pilots are also instructors, they also work at air force HQ in Pretoria, they have many other roles in the air force. The total number of pilots who are qualified and able to fly SA Gripen jets is more than 6, much more.



http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=215199&sn=Detail&pid=71654

Mr P.J. Groenewald (FF Plus) to ask the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans:

1. (a) How many operational fighter pilots does the SA Air Force currently command, (b) what is the racial composition of this specified pilot corps, (c) how many learner fighter pilots are currently receiving training and (d) what is the racial composition of this specified group?

REPLY

1(a). 10 Gripen aircrew (8 Pilots and 2 Navigators) and 13 Hawk aircrew (13 Pilots)

(b). Gripen composition is 2 Black Male, 1 Indian Male, 1 White Female and 6 White Male and Hawk composition is 11 White Male and 2 Black Male.

(c). 21 aircrew are under training on Hawk (17 Pilot's and 4 Navigators).

(d). The composition of this group is 9 Black Male, 1 Indian Male, 1 Coloured Male, 9 White Male and 1 White Female

Issued by Parliament, December 13 2010


Are you happy with this answer? Or are you going to counter my argument with a link you've already posted. Also keep in mind that about 3 Gripen pilots have been trained a year since 2010. And some of the crew trained on the Hawks move onto the Gripen.

Henry120: Really no point going over and over any more on this issue.

*however let me add one final sentence. @andrewza said pages back that SA had these helicopters on the ground, no jets but helicopters.

Yes. Gripen jets and Rooivalk helicopters were deployed around CAR in the days after the fight. Gripens were in Zambia and Rooivalk were in DRC. Ready to deploy if given the order.

Rooivalk off-loaded in DRC

www.bdlive.co.za/incoming/2013/05/24/rooivalk-congo-apr-

homerac7: cry me a river!

Nigeria deployed to Sierria Leone and started the fight when ECOWAS/AU was yet to deliberate. Not solid excuse brov. Lets get over this SELEKA thrashing and move forward, it will only make SANDF stronger (if you choose to learn).

Nice machines though (...afterall you are best in photo-ops)

The Nigerian military is allowed to do what is wants. The South African National Defence Force acts according to orders given to it by government.

Henry120: Isn't it silly? SAAF had 4 gripens and attack helos on the ground, while comrades were pinned down by seleka rebels? What then were the SAAB's doing in zambia, because they weren't there to support SANDF troops in CAR?

South Africa never went to CAR to fight any war. If you guys don't want to believe that, then we South Africans are also tired of explaining it to you. The air force jets and helicopters arrived after the battle. The South African Air Force was waiting for the decision of the African Union. If the AU said Seleka took power illegally and needed to be removed, the SA Air Force would have bombed them to bits.

patriot4: South african air force is a disgrace, you guys don't have enough pilots for your aircrasfts and not enough to even consider your airforce airworhty. The situation is so bad that you couldn't even deploy pilots to help your guys in CAR. And that is a fact!

https://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/2362/bcbc9f5ca7874be59423c0da80f4f23b.jpg

4 SA Air Force Gripens fully armed at Ndola Airport, Zambia. The air force was awaiting an order to attack
Seleka rebels in CAR. The order never came, so the jets flew back. Rooivalk attack helicopters and troops were also deployed.

Henry120: You cannot say what airframe he is training in? We can only make assumptions at this stage, since none of us were present when he took the photo.

That's like say that same Nigerian pilot could also be training on F-22's, but I can't disprove it. Why would Nigeria train a pilot on an aircraft it will never ever buy?

Henry120: NAF personnel training in AH-10 thunder bolts, hmmmm.... I just hope NAF top brass are not thinking of buying american over-priced fighters oh. It would be a major disaster, just look at our jag's. 24 Jaguars bought by the shagari regime, that haven't even clocked upto 60 hours all together in a state of decrepit.

if we are looking to get a COIN based fighter jet, NAF should look no further than the dependable SU-25 frog foot. Going for expensive, over bloated american planes isn't the way forward.

Just because he took a pic standing in front of it, doesn't mean he's training on it.

SA Navy

https://ports.co.za/admin/large/image-1204.jpg

https://ports.co.za/admin/large/image-1205.jpg

....

SA pilots shoot down 9 enemy aircraft, lose 1 in Swedish Exercise

http://www.saairforce.co.za/news-and-events/1090/sa-pilots-shot-down-nine-aircraft

Please explain how South Africa was able to send 9 qualified Gripen pilots to an exercise in Sweden, when you claim we only have 6 pilots? Add to that not all of our Gripen pilots were in Sweden. Maybe in Nigeria you count differently.

Do you even know who the man that claims we only have 6 pilots is? Mr Maynier is the defence "minister" in the opposition party, the DA. He doesn't have a firm understanding of the defence industry, and he himself didn't even undergo military training. In short, he is not to clued up on exactly what is going on in the defence force, and has no access to classified information. He will say whatever he can to paint a negative picture, just like all opposition parties do.

So in short, South Africa has a lot more than 6 Gripen pilots. Your claim about not meeting NATO flying hours. You are an "expert" in defence issues as you claim, please let us know how many of those NATO countries themselves meet those hours. Use your amazing skills at finding sources. That 250 hours was a standard set many years ago, and is outdated.

Cassidian Optronics shows off South African designed and built periscope

The South African arm of GermanY-based defence and security group Cassidian has designed and manufactured what it describes as the world’s most modern submarine periscope in its class, at its purpose-built facility in Irene, Centurion.

The R25-million SERO 250 submarine periscope system, which Cassidian Optronics MD Kobus Viljoen said was fully designed and manufactured in South Africa, featured high-performance optics, an infrared camera, a still camera, laser capabilities, as well as night vision equipment.


Read more at http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/cassidian-optronics-shows-off-locally-designed-and-built-periscope-2013-05-28

all4naija: They are not. You are only trying to use commons to make them look as though classified. Those your weapons can easily be bought, dismantled and learn about the petty technology. In Nigerian case they are made and to be used by Nigerian military.

Again, keep digging yourself into your big hole. Keep making yourself look st*pid, I don't care. It means that most of the military equipment the U.S, Britain, Germany, France, Russia, China, Japan, India, Pakistan etc etc have ever sold to a country has been dismantled. It means nothing in the defence industry is classified.

agaugust: nigerian heavy weapons R & D, and manufacturing are heavily classified as secret. unlike south africa, you cannot find details of technical capabilities of nigerian weapons on internet for public display.

And you keep telling the lie that you work in the defence industry. Do you know EXACTLY how the American Patriot missile works? Do you know all the codes and algorithms? No you dont. Just because you see something with your eyes, doesn't mean you know how it works. All technical details are classified regarding South African equipment, just like any other country. So Nigeria can keep doing Research and Development on it's highly classified military witchcraft programme, no body cares.

all4naija: Why would anybody want me to keep quiet? They are classified don't mean they are highly sophisticated. You keep reading other meanings to my comment. Your weapons are not classified because your weapons companies are privately owned.

You are digging yourself deeper into your hole. If you don't know, just keep quiet. Simple as that. For example, the company that makes our missiles.....is it private or government? The company making the new IFV's is it private or government owned? Again, stop making a fool or yourself.

all4naija: It is not about we manufacture for the world. We manufacture to consume. Whatever we produced for our military is for our military and by our military and to make it secret. That is a classified thing though.

Nothing is classified in SA because they lack weapons that are needed in that level of things in the military.

Just keep embarrassing yourself with such useless comments. I'm sure there are fellow Nigerians on here who just want you to keep quiet with these comment you pull out of your ***. You are making a fool of yourself and your nation.

all4naija: Point of correction, US is no longer in war at Iraq.So, your vehicles are used for street patrol. In Afghanistan those vehicles are probably used to maneuver the terrain as it is good for game parks and due to the cheaper price, etc not because they are sophisticated.

Finnish has it on their machine possibly to encourage your weapons manufacturers and the Nigerians as well. Those are just a way to help your industries from dying thinking maybe they will come up with something unique in the future. Those weapons are not useful in combats.

I can almost smell your jealously through my screen. It must really hurt you. The day ANY piece of Nigerian developed military technology finds it's way to any country in the West, then we can talk small boy.

agaugust: the british built hawk jet in full and shipped the parts in pieces for you to assemble. if war happens and they stop spare parts, yout hawk jet will be grounded if needs spare parts.

what use is the weapons or missiles you put on European made weapons if the platform for launching was not sold to you ?

i didnt tell post the fact that your Rooivalk helicopter gunship...the engine is imported fully built if France, same France that you hate and insult. your helicopter CANNOT fly without the engine from France, or is it a Spirit ?

stop wasting my time....i k.illed south african pride with that post

The French Rooivalk engine can be replaced by South African engines built by TurboMeca Africa http://www.turbomeca.co.za/, if need be. We told you that long ago but you ignored it. There is currently no need to replace those engines.


I love how you talk as if Nigeria can come close to South Africa's defence industry. If the west stop supplying with us parts, even with jets we can perhaps start building our own.

all4naija: You are such a funny individual! Why don't you get it.? If you expect those countries to use those weapons in wars you just thought wrong. The reason they are buying those weapons is because they are cheap. Those weapons can not stand anything made by developed nations. Keep thinking such encouragement been given to your country worth anything in international battle.

What a child's play weapons you are boasting about here. These are weapons meant for bank security and border-watch for immigrants.

Oh and which armour protected vehicles does the U.S Army use in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, as we speak? Nigerian ones? Hahahaha

Which surface to air missiles does the Finnish Navy carry on it's war ships right now? Nigerian ones?

You have exposed yourself to being a complete fool regarding military matters. You're saying they use our cheap weapons to train, but use different weapons in real combat?? If that makes any sense to you, it means you have some mental health issues you need to look at urgently.

agaugust: [size=16pt]the most important weapons in south africa are imported from Europe[/size]

list :

Grippen jets from Sweden
Hawk Jets from Britain
Valour Frigates from Germany
Type 209 Submarine from Germany
Olifant Battle Tanks from Britain

....and the list is very long, i have checked south african weapons importation from Europe in the international arms sales log, they are many all imported fully built.

south africa does NOT manufacture any of her most important weapons locally, and without these European made weapons, Angola will defeat south africa in war

.

By the way, the Hawk Jets were assembled in SOUTH AFRICA. South Africa was the only country that BAE has ever allowed to assemble it's jets outside of Britain.


And please advice us, what use are they without the weapons they use? Except the submarines, all the jets and frigates you listed use South African weapons on them. Can you say that for Nigeria? No you can't.

all4naija: You keep begging the question with gibberish. What has trade got to do with such reasons you are trying to present here. It is like saying why would European countries buy Cocoa seeds from Africa when Brazil has the same? It is like saying why will China buy Nigerian cassava flour when there is wheat flour?

It is likely you don't know what trade is all about. It is buying and selling. It is not about sophistication or best. They are buying your SA hardware because they are cheaper and can serve the purpose of child games.

Again. Complete delusion. Keep quiet if you don't have a proper reply. This is a defence forum, not a farming forum.


"It is not about sophistication or best."

You actually have the guts to say that. Such an embarrassing statement. Which defence force doesn't buy the best equipment it possible can? Saudia Arabia with all its billions of dollars could have gone to any other country but they came to SA.

The sophisticated Eurofighter Typhoon is useless without the South African made helmet. So you're saying all those European countries spent billions and billions of Euro's, just to serve the purpose of child games?

Again, I feel embarrassed for you with such a comment.

all4naija: It is not necessary of you to start posting links which are SA companies but usually supported by foreigners. Many of the equipment in those sites are very ugly and have a low-graded weaponry. While we purchase our weapons from the best, the superpowers of the world there is nothing you can do to fight and win a combat with our men. The threats is still coming from our side. So, we can take those SA military hardware manufacturing companies out of existence with the present modern purchases coming on stream very soon.

What should we been doing with such slow heavy vehicle as Marauder. A thing meant to view lions and other animals in the game parks. Please, if that is what you are trying to boast of you just lose a modern battle and hit yourself by the head. No nation would dare put its money on such ugly vehicle. To take care of the Marauder it just by digging a wide trench that it will fall into and remained there while we water the body with corrosive weapons(I don't thing SA has anything like that). Hehehe...

War is not all about flaunting shiny weapons the SA military are used to parade without having enough manpower to use them. It is clear with our strategic ally to the US SA is in a deep sh*t trying to threaten any small nation within Africa.

It is not a rocket science to know that what SA is producing any nation in Africa can also do the same. Otherwise, we have see Sudan weapon factory been destroyed by Israel in the past, which prove their capacity to manufacture powerful weapons yet it doesn't boast. The same thing can be said of Nigerian military, humble and have much to do when it comes to action unlike SA that will show off the most shiny and well polished weaponry it has in-total.

Don't tell us you are sorry when your soldiers start facing another defeat in the hand of African strongest military by then you will be eating this your comment with a damaged ego!

Complete delusion.

Why do the U.S and European countries buy UGLY South African mine protected vehicles? Because they know they are top class.

Why does Finland with the world's best education system buy South African surface to air missiles? Because they know they are top class. Why is Sweden also looking at purchasing our missiles? Because they know they are top class.

Why is Saudia Arabia wanting to buy South African UAV's when they could have gone to any other country? Because they know they are top class.

Why does the Eurofighter Typhoon use a South African helmet mounting system? Because it is top class.


Now keep quiet with your delusion.

all4naija: Lol... Whatever. I know all Nigerians have seen electricity and made use of it. It is the likes of you who are peddling such rumor while your country would soon be overran by our soldiers whom you are trying to underrate with irrelevant comments.

Bring it on! I am waiting for another of your excuse!

What percentage of Nigerian households use or have generators? And why do they use or have those generators?

South Africa developing new missile family
Scale model of Marlin
https://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj563/venoid/denelmarlin.jpg

Denel Dynamics is developing new surface-to-air and air-to-air missiles as part of a technology demonstrator programme that is leveraging off its experience with the A-Darter, R-Darter and Umkhonto missiles. The performance of the missiles from the Marlin programme is expected to be in the latest generation class relevant to each type. Denel expects the Marlin All-Weather surface-to-air missile (SAM) will have a much larger range than typical Infra-Red SAMs.
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=30178

https://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/heaton_photos/DCG_5069.jpg

https://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/heaton_photos/DCG_5064.jpg

Survival Training

https://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/heaton_photos/DSC_4891.jpg

https://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/heaton_photos/DSC_5045.jpg

These were captured during Escape and Evade Training

https://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/heaton_photos/DSC_5550.jpg

https://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/heaton_photos/DSC_5201.jpg

[img]http://cphspotters.dk/userpics/albums/userpics/10022/lionSAAFJAS39pair.jpg[/img]

[img]http://cphspotters.dk/userpics/albums/userpics/10022/lionSAAF3921.jpg[/img]

Because of your inland rivers, deltas etc etc it makes sense that Nigeria should have a bigger navy than SA. I don't think anyone doubts that. But even with the lack of funding in our air force, can someone please prove to me that the Nigerian air force can crush the South African air force.

all4naija: These are some of the Nigerian jet flight pilots. You can keep hating if you like.

[img]http://nationalmirroronline.net/thumbnail.php?file=/Nigerian_Air_Force_761268439.jpg&size=article_large[/img]

And what jets do those Nigerians fly? Please tell us.