₦airaland Forum

agaugust: the air force marshals of china and nigeria that agreed to arm the F-7 jet with one of the best missiles in the world are 100 times more technically competent than you are in your bedroom, they are masters of air combat, but you are not.

china is still flying her own 360 units of F-7 jets till today and near future, armed with the same missiles PL-9 as nigeria. i dont know when you personally became a better military technocrat than a whole China.

if your own level of intelligence tells you that any missile you cannot find on internet does not exist then you should pity yourself, i wont waste my emotions to pity you.

if you have doubt, then wait till april year 2015 to confirm when SIPRI database will list weapons that came to nigeria in january to dcember 2014.

i dont care what you think in your civilian mind, the military is 100 times smarter than you are. when you become chief of naval staff of south africa, invest 500 million dollars like nigeria to buy and build 4 modern warships without any single 1 million dollar missile to arm them, and retire all your old missile armed warships at the same time with all their missiles, then build a modern year 2015 navy worth billions of dollars that has no single missile available.

maybe that is the limit of how smart you can think.

The Chinese sold Nigeria those missiles because you guys were dumb enough to buy them. The F-7s China has are different and more capable than the F-7s Nigeria bought. There isnt one kind of F7. Your generals bought missiles with a range further than the jets radar. Assuming your radar will even pick up enemy fighters.

drag_on: @saengine. let me help you.
Type 056 Armament:
• 2× 2-cell YJ-83 (C-803) anti-ship missiles, amidships. i.e 4.sea-skimming anti-ship cruise missiles,max speed(mach2)
• 1× HQ-10 8-round SAM launcher, aft i.e 8 short range
• 1× H/PJ-26 76 mm main gun, forward
• 2× H/PJ-15 30mm RWSs, amidships
• 2× triple torpedo tubes i.e 6 torpedoes
all this for standard 1,300 tonnes
Nigeria went for full load 1,440 tons.

Yes this is what the Chinese Navy will carry. ALL sources which talk about these ships and the Nigerian Navy only talk about 76 and 30mm guns, even your Nigerian Navy website. If the Nigerian version of the Type 056 is the same, why did the author of that link put "blood relation". You are merely getting the cousin of the Chinese version.

agaugust: same way nigerian military did not tell anybody they are test firing long range missiles at epe lagoon, lagos.

same way that source did not tell you it is a modular warship that is build to perform all roles from OPV to frigate.

quote : " Type 056 is the first Chinese warship with module design, which makes it cover the roles from OPV to multi-role frigate." source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_056_corvette


big countries like nigeria are not f.ools, if you attack such country that has a modular weapon that it built, it will re-modularise to effectively combat a new threat as each type of threat emerges. valour frigate is not a modular warship.

you too will you sit down and be looking at new threat when you have a home built modular weapon ? who wants to lose a war ?

same way nigeria announced it bought a cheap/temporary/low level F-7 jet fighter and never announce it is loaded with on of the best SRAAM missiles in the world today, d.eadly PL-9 missile.

nigeria has got the building of that warship at home in lagos, they will do and undo with it and tell nobody about it.

any one who likes to judge and limit a powerful country`s military to what they disclose on internet will get a shock in real combat. where are nigeria`s 300 new d.eadly untra-modern navy fast attack-assault gunboats on UN, SIPRI, IISS arms sales log ? 95% of them are not published since year 2008 when they entered nigerian navy fleet. anyone who assumes they dont exist is a F00L that wants to R.I.P. before old age

.

PL-9 with F-7 radar? Who are you trying to fool? Do Nigerian F7 pilots have look-and-shoot capable helmets? Now you want to say you have the best SRAAM in the world? Haha...ok then.

You are just trying to talk around the point because you cant find any link which suggests Nigeria will carry missiles on its OPV's like you claimed.The weblink you posted would not have said Nigeria is getting type P18N OPV's if they had the same capability that the Chinese Type 056 Corvettes. They just share a similar design, not weapons. If you say that they will do it in secret then there's no point to this whole forum. SA is secretly developing a nuclear weapon that will take out Nigeria....sorry there is no weblink, it is secret...haha.

agaugust: whats your own source ? the new nigerian navy stealth warships are chinese Type 056 guided missile frigates one built by china and the second built by nigeria in lagos. dont let anybody deceive you, those ships are the most d.angerous in all africa, 4 times more dangerous than a valour frigate.

who will waste about half a billion dollars cash to buy and build 4 modern stealth navy warships armed with only guns and cannon like old time world war II vessels ? nigeria is not a F00L like some people imagine.

google it or click weblink below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_056_corvette



.

Quote from your own link

" At least two versions of OPV having blood relationship with Type 056 have been sold to other countries. One is Royal Thai Navy's Pattani class OPV, and the other one is an enlarged version of Type 056 with 1800 full loaded, which have been ordered by Nigerian Navy and are called P18N.

On the other hand, two corvette version of Type 056 have been sold to Bangladesh Navy."

As far as I see, Nigeria is not getting the missile corvette. Just the OPV with similar design.

Even on the official Nigerian Navy website, all i see is 76mm gun and 30mm cannon. http://www.navy.mil.ng/General-News/13.news#.UcwTTDdUaCU

Can any Nigerian tell me what weapons your 2 new OPV arriving next year will carry? All I see from the net is one 76mm gun and two 30mm cannon. With the rest being small arms.

agaugust: nigerian navy's 4 brand new stealth OPV's, 2 of them are the most dangerous warships in all africa, y.our nightmares have just started.

that topic will be treated another day...but you owe me school fees, 6 months overdue. can we negotiate ? i am single and searching...you have fine sister age 18 + ? i can waive your school fees, trade by barter

I'll be waiting to see what weapons they have.

Donian007: Are you trying to be ridiculous...... You can't get over the fact that SA spent hundreds in millions to chatter aircrafts and Nigeria hardly does so you are looking to make cheap points by screwing @Agaugust's post. Come on! Stop recycling an issue we have extensively dealth with in previous pages. Come on!

Nigeria hardly does because it doesn't travel the same distances we do. i.e from SA to DRC or CAR. Not because it doesn't need to. That picture he posted mearly reminded me of that fact. Even western air forces charter.

agaugust: fly south african air force 8 Gripen jets from pretoria to lagos too and lets see how they will not drop d.ead from the sky when fuel finish

Did they drop dead when they flew to Zambia? Point is that its much much more expensive flying a helicopter long distance than a jet. That's why almost all air forces put a helicopter on the back of a transport plane.

Back to my other question.....how will Nigerian OPV be able to defeat Frigates, only with a 72mm gun and 30mm cannon?

agaugust: sorry you mis-fired, that was photo of delivery upon purchase. you no go school

My mistake. It means the NAF has never, and will never conduct long distance operations outside the borders of Nigeria using their helicopters. And I don't means neighbouring countries. Even the U.S and U.K put their helicopters in heavy transport aircraft, and assemble on sight. And im guessing all Nigerian APV's are also driven to places like Mali? Not taken by air? Just asking.

agaugust: .

Russian Whale Vomits Nigerian Shark

.

And this is exactly what i meant a few weeks ago when I said the Nigerian Air Force also uses charters to move around equipment. But your fellow Nigerian (forgot his name) refused to accept the obvious.

Can I just ask....how will two guns on Nigeria's OPV's be able to defeat a Frigate? Don't post about what other countries have done with theirs, I mean the Nigerian owned OPV's.

agaugust: [size=16pt]
.....is this how you showed your might ? [/size]

https://www.timeslive.co.za/Feeds/ipad_images/2013/04/03/ttp3car3-02-04-2013-19-04-06-67-.jpg/ALTERNATES/crop_630x400/TTP3CAR3-02-04-2013-19-04-06-67-.jpg
seleka rebel poses on captured south african army special forces military vehicle

Show us the article where this picture comes from. I dare you

patriot4: I disagree, and I would add that that claim happened only in helmoed heitman's head.

And we've given you guys the link over and over and over again which has nothing to do with Helmoed. Nothing at all.

NaijaPikinGidi: Basic combat variables that you Mr. SAEngine and Mr. AndrewZA have refused to comprehend! By Liar AndrewZA's account ... SANDF were grossly outnumbered, outarmed and not mobile enough during the encounter with an +/- 3000 well armed, and mobile SELEKA fighters, yet you suffered far much less than they did in casualties? With all the airlifted men and shiny hardware that cost over R160 million for the CAR mission, someone is not telling the truth and it further compounds the combat variables that don't add-up. Any neutral and intelligent military personnel/analyst/combatant will tell you the same.

SANDF's account of the CAR saga remains highly questionable except where SANDF can show proof that its combatants have acquired the physical ability to dodge bullets and mortar rounds like Neo in The Matrix movie ! Only SANDF fights ratio 1:15 men with lesser weapons and mobiility and wins neatly! "Congratulations"!

Just to make things simple. Do you agree with the direct quote from a named seleka commander that we killed over 250 of their men? Yes or no

NaijaPikinGidi: Thanks for advising me to use my brain ... which I have been doing for the better part of my adult life even when I am asleep. I have highlighted your comment in bold for the active and passive readers to note for future purposes! So SANDF quotes 3000 as a ROUGH number? So SANDF did NOT count the standing SELEKA men in battle? So SANDF believes their numbers could have been a bit MORE or a BIT LESS ? I can tell based on combat casualty ratios and variables that the SELEKA fighters where in almost EQUAL numbers or much less than the SANDF fighters in that very fight.

Defeat is a disgrace, so to make it less of a disgrace SANDF has attempted to skew the numbers so much to show that they were disadvantaged in number and firepower. War is a science that lies cannot deceive!! The SA CAR story has question marks all over.

One of your most delusional comments yet. Which variables are these? If Seleka numbers were equal to ours, it means we would have killed every single one of them. We have posted time and time again about the Seleka commander who states he lost over 250 men. You can ignore it all you want but he said it, not us.

HIV Prevalence in SANDF half national average

SA National Defence Force (SANDF) Surgeon General Lieutenant General Veejay Ramlakan has come out with guns blazing against those who maintain the military is riddled by HIV and Aids. “The study included Regular Force and Military Skills Development members. It showed an HIV prevalence rate of 8,5% compared to the national prevalence rate of around 19%,” Ramlakan said.

The figure comes from the SANDF September 2011 health status report and was reconfirmed in an HIV prevalence study done last August.

“This is in stark contrast to claims by some academics over the last few years that the HIV and AIDS infection rate among soldiers is as high as 28%. The SANDF has always objected to mere translation of available national statistics obtained from antenatal clinics as these are scientifically unfounded. This practice was also questioned by independent researchers,” he said.

Another Cross Sectional Cohort Study is planned for this year to continue monitoring of HIV and AIDS management in the SANDF.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29896:hiv-prevalence-in-the-sandf-less-than-half-the-national-average&catid=55:SANDF&Itemid=108

agaugust: .
the topic of this thread is WHO HAS THE STRONGEST MILITARY IN AFRICA, not who has the biggest weapons production factory.

Egypt, Nigeria, Algeria, Ethiopia, Eritrea all produce less weapons than south africa but have stronger military forces. that is the topic of this thread. thank you.





let us showcase what our countries have achieved with weapons they produce.

south africa has good weapons in the hands of weak and sickly HIV infected soldiers that run away from rebels. try post these your nice weapons photos on a Seleka website


this military vehicle too is made in south africa, but who is riding on it ? mandela's son ?

https://www.timeslive.co.za/Feeds/2013/04/02/1012347_835617.jpg/ALTERNATES/crop_630x400/1012347_835617.jpg

.

We are still waiting for you to post a similar picture from the BBC or CNN or any western media. Please don't use pictures from South African media that YOU don't trust. Otherwise you are agreeing that we killed hundreds of Seleka rebels, like the article (where the above picture comes from) CLEARLY states.

kwame tut: @ZetDee
[b]Please dont bother talking to 419ers and trying to give them explanations. Am sure ur blogging with the same 419er using a different name. Thats Nihellians for u.

LASTLY SON OF THE SOIL DID U WATCH THE WORLD CHAMPS SOUTH AFRICA BABY BOKS IN FRANCE THEY BEAT U.S.A 97 SOMETHING. THE FINAL WILL BE BETWEEN SOUTH AFRICA AND NEW ZEALAND LIKE LAST TIME.

These monkeys above think SA during apartheid won a WORLD CUP. No, its only after 1994 they started including SPEEDY BLACKS AND COLOUREDS WINGERS then they started SCORING TRIES. THATS VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND FOR A SUB HUMAN LIKA NIGERIAN.

WORLD CUP 1995
WINNERS=SA
TOP TRY SCORER=CHESTER WILLIAMS(Black not white)
2006 WORLD CUP
WINNERS=SOUTH AFRICA
TOP TRY SCORER=BRIAN HABANA(Black not white)

THE SAME CAN BE SAID WITH OUR UNDER 20 RUGBY TEAM THAT ARE HAVE WON THE WON CUP MANY TIMES AND IS 60% NON WHITE(Blacks and coloureds who brought a new flavour).
SAME CAN BE SAID WITH OUR RUGBY SEVENS FORMER WORLD CHAMPS.

SAME CAN BE SAID WITH OUR BOXING CHAMPS, PRODUCED MORE CHAMPS THAN ANY AFRICAN COUNTRY.
[/b]

Come on dude. There is no need to call people monkeys and sub-humans. Stick to the topic. If you have nothing to add to the particular topic just leave.

NaijaPikinGidi: So what was the military/economic sense in the project? If the design and development was at such an advanced stage why not complete the project thereby establishing for SA one of the worlds advanced military planes manufacturing industries ... providing jobs, and added national income to South Africa/ns? If you talk about a South African fighter jet that exists and is in service ... then we'll applaud your point. There is no point in highlighting something that failed to exist ... a carver project that carved up a deep $2 billion hole in your nation's pocket which you are barely just recovering from? For how long will the taxpayers continue in their longsuffering at the hands of your military managers? R100million wasted in airlift of military gear to CAR is further waste that you and I can't understand.

Project Carver was only brought up by me because your fellow countryman was trying to be clever. I showed him that SA was indeed developing a fighter jet. There is a wonderful blog that talks about the history of project Carver. There are numerous reasons why the project was cancelled. One being the original design was for a single engine jet similar to the F16. Years into the project a new general demanded that he wanted a twin engine jet with a greater range and load. Engineers then had to change their designs that they had been working on. At the same time (early 1990's) FW de Klerk slashed the defence budget, since there was no longer a real threat from Angola and other countries. Faced with a greatly reduced defence buget, there were simply no more funds to develop the new twin engine design. And it was impossible to convince parliament to carry on with the single engine design since it was now possible for SA to purchase jets from the international market. Hence the project was cancelled. Just like how projects have been cancelled in all weapons producing countries from time to time.

agaugust: Atlas : Carver
Role : Fighter/ground attack aircraft
National origin : South Africa
Manufacturer : Atlas Aircraft Corporation
Status : Cancelled in 1991
Primary user : South African Air Force
Number built : None

weblink source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Carver

this is the never existent Carver jet fighter you want me to discuss with you, i pity your mother !

.

Fool. Let me make things very easy for your simple little brain to understand.

1. In an earlier post you asked me why SA developed the Rooivalk helicopter even though it cost Denel a huge sum of money.

2. I told you the Rooivalk was developed because SA had no choice. We could not import weapons from America or Europe because of an arms embargo.

3.You could have left the argument there and walked away but then decided to be clever. You then asked if we developed Rooivalk because of an embargo, WHY didn't we also develop fighter jets instead of upgrading Mirages jets.

4. I then showed you that SA was indeed involved in developing a fighter jet under project Carver. Your own Wikipedia link states that at least $2 billion was spent on development. Those must have been very expensive pensils if you claim only a sketch was made. I stated in plain english that the project was cancelled when it because clear that the arms embargo was going to be lifted.

5. You then try and act cool, pretending as if you had never asked about a South African fighter in the first place. You were given proof that SA was developing a fighter, which you never knew about. Otherwise you wouldnt have asked.

So the only mother that needs to be pittied is yours. Her son can't admit when he is wrong

agaugust: i like to ignore useless posts and unprofitable debates, why should i discuss a south african 'made' imaginary carver jet fighter that never went beyond an artist's drawing on paper ? you think i have no work to do in my office ?

Another example of you running away when you have been caught. You loudly opened your mouth thinking SA has never designed a jet fighter. You are further digging your hole by claiming it was only a sketch. If you even remember the point of this argument was that Rooivalk and the Carver jet (project cancelled before 1st test flight) were built because SA was not allowed to import weapons at the time. It's a very simple, well documented fact. Instead of accepting it and moving on, you tried to be clever by arguing that point. Which has left you with egg on your face. Yes please get back to work, your customers are waiting for their burger and chips order.

agaugust: i am not a jobless unemployed man to be dragged back into seleka vs south africa debate that took a whole month argument between @Patriot4 and @Andrewza. not every south african post is worth replying, many lack common sense.

me quoting a south african source that took its news from reuters, why not ? i said the truth will never be known, i dont care which source is quoted....south african or non-south african, read my post again, i said the truth will never be known about seleka vs south africa....if you call me a F00L for being so neutral and honest....then something is wrong with every south african brain
.

1st he says in a post above......"i dont trust a south african news paper propaganda lie"

And then he says "i don't care which source is quoted...south African or non south african"

This is a prime example of someone with bi polar. Yes you do care which quote is used, very much so. The truth will never be known by you, because you are too proud our st*pid to accept it. We are still waiting for your pic of a Seleka fighter with our Geckos from the BBC or CNN.

And its fine, you can ignore the South African jet post i made above. You tried to be smart, and failed.

agaugust: .
https://www.adaureachumba.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/CAR-REBELS-SELEKA-3-510x280.jpg


[size=16pt]Seleka rebels disputes South African army casualty numbers[/size]


"General Hassan Ahmat, commander of the 558-strong Brigade Rouge, said in Bangui this week that he and his seleka rebel men had killed at least 36 South African soldiers and captured 46, releasing them soon afterwards."

http://www.dispatch.co.za/rebels-claim-more-sa-soldiers-died-in-car/

when south africa fights a war, the truth about casualties is never known. lets quit this old topic.

Hahaha....he wants to quit the topic that now that he is cornered. You have used a South African link to a South African newspaper above, after explicitly stating you don't trust South African sources. And you wonder why i call you a fool. Why weren't those 46 SA troops killed? Why return them? In the spirit of good will? Hahaha....shame, keep digging your hole.

agaugust: do you understand english language ? i dont speak afrikaans/zulu. can we still talk ?

i said post us a neutral/non-south african weblink source to prove seleka lost 800 soldiers. i dont trust a south african news paper propaganda lie, @Msauza is an example of how much you south africans tell lies to the world.

however, note that the source you quoted says south african army was armed with heavy weapons, which you and your friends have constantly denied.

the seleka loss of 250 men is from a south african source and you lie too much, even on this thread, telling lies and deceiving people is south africa's tool for making a great public image for itself.

show us a reliable source of facts from any of Reuters/BBC/CNN/VOA/AFP/RFI/DW/etc, not a south african ego booster newspaper.

.

So to cut this foolish argument short, you dont believe the article? Ok good. Then it means you cannot use that picture of the seleka fighter on our Gecko vehicle, because that picture was taken by the same journalists you say are lying. Even when they quote the NAMES of Seleka commanders....hahahaha, how pathetic.

Post a similar picture from BBC or CNN with Seleka driving our Gecko vehicles please. Thanks :-)

agaugust: i am correct, both SANDF paratroops and special forces use Gecko, you will embarrass yourself less if you quit spending your time on how to 'embarrass' me with issues of little value.

SANDF Gecko used by special forces http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4832.html

The Gecko can be used by special forces, just like a london bus can be used by special forces. It was originally designed to be used by special forces and paratroopers, but is almost always used by paratroopers. Even the pics from that desperate link of yours only show paratroopers using the Gecko.

SA Special Forces now almost only use the Hornet/Wasp, not the Gecko. Not even close.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/images/stories/LAND/LAND_new/Hornet_vehicle_400x300.jpg

agaugust: south africa had same problem with Mirage 2000 jet fighter, why did she not develop a jet fighter instead of modifying Mirage into Cheetah ?

Rooivalk was targeted at a world market as a 'better' helicopter gunship made in south africa, but it failed. let me tell you why, and go tell DENEL to learn from its mistake :

the rival Mi-35 hind was a market success because it is a modular weapon. Rooivalk is not modular. learn and be wise.

Learn and be wise. South Africa was also secretly developing a jet fighter under the Carver programme. The airforce could see that the Cheetah modification was just a temporary measure. The design for the Carver got quite far, but the programme was cancelled around the time when the arms embargo was lifted in South Africa. It would have been too expensive to continue.

[img]http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158479&stc=1&d=1194442238[/img]

us

agaugust: you did not pass high school final exams ? that post i made did not quote any source for the Seleka Gecko vehicle photo, how can you 'manufacture' a source for me and attach my name to it ? what kind of education do you have ? an over-rated south african school ?

Your small little head doesn't understand that the photo you used comes directly from this article. The article and the photo are inseparable. So once and for all, decide......either the whole article is true, or it is all lies. Meaning your photo is also lies. Here is your proof, from the mouths of our SELEKA enemies that we fought hard. Not ran away like you claim.

SA soldiers carved us up, say rebels
Stephan Hofstatter and JAMES OATWAY in Bangui | 03 April, 2013 00:44

https://www.timeslive.co.za/Feeds/2013/04/02/1012347_835617.jpg/ALTERNATES/crop_630x400/1012347_835617.jpg

“We fought very hard for one and a half days. They had very good weapons and very good fighters,” said corporal Mohamed Tahir of a battle in the capital Bangui that he took part in, which left 13 South African soldiers and apparently hundreds of rebels dead or wounded.

Several of those interviewed bore battle scars, including bandaged heads, feet and limbs. The rebels said the SA troops made it “very, very difficult” for them to take the town and sweep president Francoir Bozize from power. The fight put up by the SA troops was so ferocious he believed they were facing over 400 men – almost double the actual number.

“They had every kind of weapon that they were fighting against us with – heavy weapons,” said Tahir. “It was a very difficult battle. We lost more than half of the the men only in my unit of 500 men.”

Captain Amin Nodjokama described it as “big, big battle – it was very hot! It took a long time and the fighting was very heavy with a lot of dead and wounded on both sides”.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/04/03/sa-soldiers-carved-us-up-say-rebels

Your Seleka boyfriend is admitting openly that he lost over 250 men in his unit ALONE. Now you still don't believe we killed hundreds of them. Hahahahahaha....again you embarrass yourself.

Msauza: Dude, I have read on the newspaper that Bozize's government offered South African contingent military vehicles to use throughout the mission. By the way what do you call that kind of vehicle since I have never seen that in South Africa?

Gecko vehicle used by paratroopers. We might have got Toyota 4x4 from them which we modified with weapons.

agaugust: you fist explain the fact that your country man @Msauza denied that Gecko is a south african military vehicle....and bury y.our head in shame

show us a neutral/reliable/non-south african web-link source where seleka says hundreds of its soldiers died while only 13 south africans died. that kill ratio is unheard of in modern war when you are outnumbered ratio 10:1, then y.ou kill in ratio 60:1 and you still say you were less armed and not using your highly rated weapons....even american world best army rangers could not kill local somalia rebels in ratio 60:1 during black hawk down...check war history, stop F00LING yourselves.

.

So let me just understand what you are saying. You are saying that the SELEKA commanders in that article that YOU took the picture from are lying? You're saying that those two commanders who have been mentioned by name don't exist, or they are making up the story about us fighting well. But at the same time you are willing to use the picture from the article that you claim is a lie to make your point. So everything about the article is a lie, except the part of it that you wanted to use....i.e the picture? Hahahahahaha.....what an embarrassment!! Show us a weblink of a similar picture from another source, otherwise that picture is also fake. Hahaha...wow, what a nice laugh im having

agaugust: south african army on Gecko military vehicle designed for and used by its special forces

[img]http://livemag.co.za/wp-content/themes/livemag/timthumb.php?src=http://livemag.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/sandf.jpg&w=480&h=360[/img]

seleka rebels captures and poses on south africa Gecko military vehicle after the special forces of south africa Bolted away like Usain Bolt

https://www.timeslive.co.za/Feeds/ipad_images/2013/04/03/ttp3car3-02-04-2013-19-04-06-67-.jpg/ALTERNATES/crop_630x400/TTP3CAR3-02-04-2013-19-04-06-67-.jpg

Gecko military is a proudly south african product and is used by its elite special forces.

weblink source : http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4832.html

only heaven knows how many lies south africans have told us on this thread. @Msauza, swallow you lie, @CraigB and @Kwame tut both bury your head in shame because south africa livea and thrives on falsehood and deceit....even denying your own home made proudly south african product just to deceive nigerians and other african.

.

I told him he was incorrect. And you yourself are incorrect to say its used by special forces. It's almost exclusively used by our paratroopers to move around heavy motars.