₦airaland Forum

agaugust: dont deceive us here, you all said south african army uses modern weapons and is 'world class' according to all of you on this thread....therefore, whatever types of weapons south african army left behind, while Bolting away like Usain Bol.t are highly rated weapons of a fleeing army.

seleka rebel poses confidently with a captured south african army vehicle

https://www.timeslive.co.za/Feeds/ipad_images/2013/04/03/ttp3car3-02-04-2013-19-04-06-67-.jpg/ALTERNATES/crop_630x400/TTP3CAR3-02-04-2013-19-04-06-67-.jpg

south africans on this thread have boasted that their 'highly rated' rifles will wipe out enemies armed with AK-47 rifles...this photo tells a different story.

Hahahahaha. What I love about this picture is that its taken from the article in which a Seleka commander cleary states we killed hundreds of their men, and fought very well. Explain that please agaugust? You claim we ran away, and yet the link you use quotes our enemy stating we fought bravely. You have shot yourself in the foot.

Msauza: Dude! You are your Pat on shoulder comes with nothing. Unfortunately, the vehicle above with Seleka rebel is not a South African military vehicle. Our Armies do not drive that nonsense.

Incorrect

agaugust: when south africa pee pees or pooh poohs in her boxer shorts, you always have an excuse like....there was no toilet on that street

I gave you a valid, well documented reason why SA developed the Rooivalk. Most of SA's well known weapons systems were developed because it was illegal to sell us arms. Now when you have no come back you reply with this nonsense. How sad.

NaijaPikinGidi: Mr. SAEngine ... while Nigerians here debate the big issues in terms of the thread's topic it amuses me to find our South African friends wallowing in petty talk that adds little or no value to the debates here. So much desperation by South African Nairalanders to discredit the formidable status of Nigeria's military establishments yet little of valuable facts to back-up the false assertions being passed-off as intelligent counter arguments. CraigB will wish to have his South African military as the benchmark for all military successes in Africa yet he provides very little by way of facts to support that desire. CraigB also fails to learn from SELEKA how South African-made weapons are made to look cheap by the dozens when put to use in the theatre of war. So much that the "highly-rated" weapons and gear were worth abandoning as the SA troops scampered for refuge in the French fortified areas of CAR. CraigB will call Chinese products substandard yet close to 85% of finished products in South Africa are sourced from or made in China. To Mr. SAEngine and CraigB ... stupid talk is cheap ... use the links below to see what China is to South Africa. Uninformed South Africans like CraigB continues to despise China yet he fails to understand that South Africa can't do without China ...

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-06-14-00-patel-makes-sense-of-chinese-rands
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/788287.shtml#.UcAvjJx5eIg
http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2013/jun/hisense-south-africa.cfm

I don't have to remind you that China is the big "C" in BRICS that SA recently became a member of. China was instrumental in the critical military supplies to ANC fighters during the Aparthied era. Just like South Africa's Indians, a generation of Chinese who have been in SA for several decades are by law and recogntion "black" South Africans.

My point is ... don't for any reason try to give China a second-class position when they are globally by far more advanced economically, technologically and militarily than most of Africa combined. Nigeria recognises the importance of bilateral partnerships and understands military economics better, hence we know what we need and from who to get our needs -- based on long or short term threats or national expediencies. When a rated missile from any Chinese made platform is unleashed ... may the heavens help any obstacle on its path.

CraigB ... I am terribly amazed at your empty comments here and I have every reason to believe that Mr. AndrewZA is a fairly better proposition for a South African debater on military issues.

To conlude ... PS:: Please check out the inner label on whatever you are wearing now and stop being in your stupid state of denial.

1. And the point of this essay is what? To somehow convince yourself that the F-7 jet is not obselete by today's standards because it was made by the Chinese? If you want to live in a delusional world, then so be it. If this debate was taking place in the 1980's then you would have a fighting chance with regards to defending the honour of your F-7's. You'll be firing your missiles at who exatcly? Because any 4th and a lot of 3rd generation fighter jets would have shot you out of the sky before you even knew they were there. Buying the F-7 was the biggest mistake the NAF has ever made.

2. Which highly rated South African weapons were left behind in CAR? Do you know? No? I thought so.

Gecko vehicles used as paratroop transport and modified Toyota 4x4's (which aren't even formal SANDF equipment). These are not highly rated by anyones standards, not even Nigerian standards. The Gecko vehicle could have been designed by a group of engineering students on a tight budget.

https://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo303/prion_photos/Gecko.jpg

agaugust: so what economies of scale made south africa develop and manufacture for its own air force use a tiny fleet of 11 Rooivalk helicopters instead of buying from America or Europe ? and DENEL ran into heavy debt because of it

as usual dont make excuses that exempt south africa from the rule when its her turn to be seen as a failure in that aspect.

Fool. Do you realise the Rooivalk was developed when South Africa was facing an arms embargo? We were not allowed to buy military equipment from America or Europe or anyone, so we had no choice to make it ourselves. And now it doesn't make any sense to buy a foreign attack helicopter, since our infrastructure to make more Rooivalk is available.

agaugust: so why are many countries buying instead of building ships locally ? you dont think clearly, do you ? NO

next year 2014, nigeria becomes the first country in all africa to build 70% of a modern stealth guided missile multi-purpose warship.

with all these said, i close for today. better luck next time, south african shot themselves in the mouth as usual

Have you heard of economies of scale? Just because you can do it, it is still too expensive to make it locally (unless you had no choice to do so). Otherwise every country would be making their own products and there would be little trade. So you only manufacture products that you can produce cheaper than your competition and buy the rest.

agaugust: .

nigeria is building in lagos next year 2014, 70% of this modern stealth guided missile frigate below and that is more difficult than copying an F-7 jet for a nigerian version.

https://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8466/12178756.jpg

You just keep disappointing people really. Many many countries have the ability to build ships, but don't have the ability to develop jet engines. You clearly don't have any engineering background at all.

Clear copy even? They might have elements in common, but clear copy? Goodness me. Unlike the Chinese who came to Denel to ask to buy just ONE Rooivalk helicopter a few years ago. We told them to F-off because it was clear they were going to copy paste.

agaugust: the whole world copies each other, only a fool will try to re-invent the wheel/tyre.

south african R4 rifles are a clear copy of Russian AK-47 rifle.
south african MRAPS army vehicles designs look like exactly like American Hummer 4x4 jeep and British Landrovers.

R4 and AK-47? Huh? This fool needs to go to sleep.

agaugust: nigeria bought F-7 jet it has dis-assembled and re-assemble totally at random...we will copy it and build a jet engine air craft....same way china rose to power of technology.

south africa will not be able to build a Gripen jet, its a burden on your weary sweaty heads


nigeria has a new ultra modern advanced 4th generation supersonic jet paid for, under factory construction, and arriving next year 2014 to nigerian air force, 12 units of the L-15 Falcon jets. nigeria has a strategic plan air power growth plan...a smart plan a dullard cannot discern.

https://i.imgur.com/cjNP0.jpg

Ok I will log into this forum in 2040 when you finally develop a powerful jet engine and jet aircraft from reverse engineering. I will congratulate you for copying technology from 1970.

agaugust: establishes the fact that nigerian F-7 jets will shoot down south african Rooivalk helicopters

establishes the fact that nigeria has a powerful air defense system to compensate for the weakness of F-7 jets

establishes the fact that nigeria has no current threat that requires buying Gripen jets that half will end up in a cold freezer long term storage because of lack of money to maintain them and train qualified pilots like south africa

establishes the fact that nigeria uses its head more than south africa in weapons purchases

There we go. That's all you needed to say, weak, piece of rubbish F-7.

You use your head like the scandal involving your Israeli drones? You use your head by purchasing F-7 jets when you could have purchased much much better jets at a similar price? Um....okay then

agaugust: nigerian F-7 jets are still the best combat aircraft among 40 african countries, only 8 have any jet that is better, and its because those countries face air threat in their regions or they have weaker air defences than nigeria has.

no country in our west africa region can match nigerian F-7 jets, and for the 8 countries outside our region with better jets...nigeria has a formidable and impenetrable anti-aircraft air defenses :

16 Roland SAM with 300 missiles to fire in 5 minutes
30 Shilka Anti-Aircraft Guns
48 Blowpipe SAM with hundreds of missiles
100 SA-7 SAM with maybe thousands of missiles

very many radar guided Bofors Anti-Aircraft guns
very many modern TYPE 90 Anti-Aircraft and Anti-Missile guns

very modern AKASH SAM....coming from india

all operating under a TRACON nationwide 100% radar coverage shield with 500km target tracking range

none of the 8 african countries with better jets than F-7 can survive inside nigerian air space, all enemy aircraft will be made to R.I.P.


AKASH is comming...nigeria's new d.eadly anti-aircraft missiles
[img]http://www.indiastrategic.in/image/akash_s.jpg[/img]
@saengine, you can come with your 6 or maybe 8 Gripen jets, if you want nigeria to turn them into instant barbecue.

And this changes the fact that your F-7 jets are a piece of crap how exactly?

agaugust: ...you be pilot ?

.

"With its delta wings the aircraft has an excellent fast-climbing performance, but any form of turning combat would led to rapid loss of speed.The pilot is buried deeply in the cockpit and has a poor cockpit visibility.The aircraft has a short range, and can only take IR-homing short-range air-to-air missiles for visual range combat, making it only suitable for point air defence."

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j7.asp

So go blame your generals for buying a piece of crap.

agaugust: if the target/enemy starts runs away, or fly evasive maneuvers within the F-7 jet radar's range, the F-7 jet missile has enough range to keep pursuing it untill the faster missile speed catches up with target and destroys. you dont know air to air jets 'dog fight' tactics, so sharaaap !

And any modern air force will just stay out of your useless F7 radar range and your missiles will be blind. They will fire on you before you even know they are even there. Keep dreaming if you think F7 will only face helicopters in battle. Stop talking about your piece of junk F7. The biggest mistake the NAF has ever made.

agaugust: .

a south african brain is so dull you cannot do basic mathematics and discover that the 300,000km is a laptop typing keypad finger error. see the first post i made on that topic earlier on june 6, before the later june 8 you quoted. south africans cannot think out a way around a simple toddler age jigsaw puzzle or arrange lego toys in fitting shapes....you so dull ?

see my first and original post below...i said 300,000 feet

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@saengine, can we have you south africans make intelligent posts in this forum than spending your hours looking for where a finger typing error keyed in km instead of feet ? give us value please, not this gabbage. thanks

...but please, dont repeat flying 309km/hr speed south african helicopters against 2,200km/hr speed nigerian jet fighter again o ! thats not the kind of 'value' we are asking you for sir

.

Then just admit you made a mistake and keep quiet. Your F7 jets are useless by anyone's standards. Your F7 jets have to greatly reduce speed to maneuver. Your Nigerian generals bought missiles with a range further than your F7 radar, that is stupid to say the least. Let's us wait and see if any well known institutions congratulate nigeria on 84km.

Augustine Again: .

[size=16pt]Nigerian army built technology leads Africa[/size]


nigerian military forces will now watch all south african air force aircraft, missiles in the air and all south african army soldiers on the ground, as well as all south african navy warships on the oceans from above them in outer space like a television, and far beyond range out of reach of any south african weapon attack

nigeria has technological superiority over south africa and all other african nations from cape town to cairo, in strategic and tactical spying, reconnaissance and 24 hour monitoring/tracking and intelligence information, with 3 modern high power and high image quality space satellites and these new nigerian army domestically manufactured high-tech spy balloons newly launched into outer space to stay at about 300,000km above the earth.

winning a war is not all about manufacturing weapons with ranges extra 10km longer than other countries, war involves both ammunition and information.


http://thenationonlineng.net/new/news/army-devises-new-balloons-to-tackle-insecurity/


.

300 000km. Quote by you.

I also forgot to congratulate Nigeria on breaking the world record of the highest launched high altitude balloon. Previous record was 53km from 2002. Before that the record stood unchallenged since the 1970's. Nigeria has completely demolished the competition at a whopping 84km. But one wonders why everyone is completely silent on the matter. I'm sure NASA would love to congratulate them. I'm not even talking about the 300 000km balloon agaugust said you have....that's in a whole other league. Hahaha.

agaugust: it be like say you no go school o ! your weblink source quotes a spy balloon that civilian minister of abuja wants to import from israel for civilian use, the source and story posted weeks ago is totally different....it is nigerian army develops a military spy balloon for military combat use and upgraded beyond normal world level of perfomance, altitude and range :
.

Ah ok. Innocent mistake on my part. So this quote from that article is also me being an idiot....

"Terms of the contract indicated that the final execution of the order is subject to the approval of the Ministry of Defence."

I wonder why your minister of defence is getting involved in a civilian project. Hmmmm. So to some things up, Nigeria has civilian spy balloons, military spy balloons at 84km and also military spy balloons at 300 000km (near the moon). Hahahahaha....okay then .

And then the claim that Nigeria is using Israeli spy satellites. I should also ignore that too right? Ok cool, no problem :-)

Augustine Again: .

[size=16pt]Nigerian army built technology leads Africa[/size]


nigeria has technological superiority over south africa and all other african nations from cape town to cairo, in strategic and tactical spying, reconnaissance and 24 hour monitoring/tracking and intelligence information, with 3 modern high power and high image quality space satellites and these new nigerian army domestically manufactured high-tech spy balloons newly launched into outer space to stay at about 300,000km above the earth

http://thenationonlineng.net/new/news/army-devises-new-balloons-to-tackle-insecurity/

.

Yho Nigeria is advanced hey, damn. 300 000km? Amazing. Consider that the NASA Hubble Telescope is only a mere 560km away from earth, and that the moon is 380 000 km away from earth. Nigeria is now trully a world leader in space technology.

So Nigeria purchases spy balloons from Israel. Then a few months later are telling the world how they have developed new spy balloons. Haha....someone is lying somewhere. Or someone needs to be fired if they bought technology from Israel that was also available in Nigeria. Notice also how the link claims Nigeria uses Israeli spy satellites. Hmmm...interesting.

http://dailypost.com.ng/2012/11/06/fct-spend-n295-million-spy-balloon/

agaugust: .

[size=16pt]
nigeria is building its 4th satellite locally at home...giant of africa[/size]

nigeria is building its 4th satellite locally at home and as fast as possible. south africa is behind nigeria, thats why we use rainbow nation as yardstick for measuring from the bottom position on nairaland.


"PRESIDENT Goodluck Jonathan has challenged the National Space Council to work out ways to launch a Nigerian made space satellite on a Nigerian made space vehicle from a site within the country in the shortest possible time."

- Tribune newspaper

http://tribune.com.ng/news2013/en/news/item/14152-jonathan-wants-local-launch-of-space-satelite.html

https://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/blogs/6a00d8341bf67c53ef0147e17c2a79970b-800wi.jpg

Then by your own definition the satellite Nigeria is currently working on, as well as Nigeria launching its own satellites are also on a wish list. These projects might also get cancelled or delayed, like you say.

Augustine Again: quote source, at least south africa never classifies any of its technology or military basic information about weapons. show us reliable source....i am waiting

Google "R400 million South African satellite". I want you to post the source you find so you waste your own time embarrassing yourself, not mine. And again HOW DO YOU KNOW what is classified in South Africa? Your small brain assumes everything you see on the net is all we have. And finally, Nigeria does not yet possess the technology to launch rockets that high and release a payload. If you do, you are fools paying other people to launch your satellites when you can do it yourselves.

Nigeria buying F7 jets means one of two things. Either the people responsible for procurement in the NAF have absoluely no idea what they are doing, and how technologically behind the F7 is. I mean look at its radar system for example. Or it means they were paid to to buy those jets.

Donian007: Look youngman that info about the rocket launch is CLASSIFIED.

There is nothing to classify because there was no rocket launch. High altitude ballons dont need to be launched by rocket. If Nigeria has the ability to accurately place a payload to a pinpoint position that high up, you would already be launching your own satellites....which your president has given a 12 year timescale to from now.

Augustine Again: south africa has not even raised money to build one satellite, target date is far away 2017. south africa is a debtor nation owes europe/etc $40 Billion

Another lie. The new satellite has a R400 million budget. And target date is before 2017.

The reason he cant give you proof of Nigeria using a 120km range rocket to launch the balloon is simply because he made that information up, simple as that. He literally sat there and told a lie. You don't need a rocket to get that high up into the atmosphere. Look at the guy who jumped from space last year,he never used a rocket to get there. He also can't justify rockets being used because he doesn't know the size and weight of the payload.

Augustine: will your helicopter fly without the engine made in France and sold to you ? please manufacture another lie sir, this one is a penalty shot played over the bar, no goal

We've told you this over and over again. Rooivalk engines can be replaced by engines produced in South Africa if need be. You ignore the answer, then ask the same question later on. I dont get it.

Infact here is the link before we go back and forth again on this useless topic.

http://weeklytrust.com.ng/index.php/new-news/12633-how-senators-visit-to-military-hanger-exposed-failed-contracts

NaijaPikinGidi: Mutual military assistance is a component of Military bilateral agreements. Did you stop to wonder why President Zuma visited Nigeria in May 2013, and then hurriedly invited President Jonathan over to South Africa for a State visit? Does it ring a bell that it was during the visit that a Nigerian-South African Defence pact was signed? Does that coincidentally just lead to the inauguration of the AU Standby Force all in the same month? SA needs Nigeria's military collaboration like crazy! The CAR lesson is very explicit.

The truth is that we do not CHARTER planes for our airlifts. We uses our planes maximally and where we need to marginally increase deployment rates our allies are welcome to chip in what they can at no cost to Nigeria. SA will do well to learn how Nigeria's military have succeeded in Africa. WE DO NOT CHARTER scandalously like the SANDF that claim to be the alpha and omega in military operations in Africa.

The reason why everything about the CAR debacle is proudly South African?

Like I said, end of discussion. Google the story of Nigerian officials visiting one of your airbases and finding C130's and other cargo planes still grounded, after they were meant to be repaired. Contact your air marshal and tell him he is lying. Not me. Does Nigeria's Naval commander visiting SA this month and saying the two countries need to co-operate mean the so called powerful Nigerian navy was begging us for help? Um...okay then.

NaijaPikinGidi: Fools like Mr. SAEngine really die hard!!



Until you provide proof of heavy Nigerian deployments on CHARTERED planes your best remains to speculate. While Nigeria's C130s and G222s are doing the rounds lifting and dropping-off our troops and hardware, SANDF is welcome to take a cue from our silent and robust military missions across the continent. It's a no brainer Mr. SAEngine.

The desperation men go through when they've clearly been caught out is fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. You are ignoring what your own air marshal said. How sad. Hahaha

Henry120: Why is it so difficult for you south africans to read?? Nigeria currently has 6 C-130's in service. We have gone over and over this issue.

Then its a simple answer to a simple question. When did the 4 other C130's being fixed in the U.S arrive. Last year?

NaijaPikinGidi: The Nigeria Police Force can charter, but not the Nigerian Military Forces!! Yet how often does the Nigeria Police get deployed? Stop skirting aimlessly around the point I made. In 4 months SANDF chartered planes to lift slightly over 200 men and gear to CAR to the tune of R100 million? That is economic recklessness by the SANDF. Sadly, SANDF further fails to justify the expenditure by abandoning base and gear to SELEKA fighters. Nigeria knows when and how to work jointly with her partners to achieve our interests and missions. We have not CHARTERED and will not CHARTER to airlift our military men and gear to Mali or anywhere else!! That is why the AirForce has floated the "United Nigeria Airlines." Your link above clearly mentions the new Airline. Nigeria will not CHARTER like the SANDF. Mr. SAEngine ... what next?

Oh so NAF stands for Nigerian Police Force? Oh ok....how interesting. You clearly didn't even read the article. How sad