₦airaland Forum

Nicklee:
The Nigerian bubble is going to burst much sooner than later. At an average $110/bbl of oil, Nigeria was awash with petrodollars and combined with misappropriation (corruption, etc) fuelled the current real estate bubble we are seeing. At $36/bbl of oil and the subsequent cash crunch, it is difficult to see how the present economy can sustain Nigeria's overinflated housing market without a significant correction. I think all the available data point to some form of corrections that will begin in 2016.

Worse still is the fact that many of the new built empty properties are owned by crooks (many from GEJ's Yam Festival) who can afford to leave them empty and not rent them out because they did not take a mortgage or loan to build them.

When EFCC comes after these people in some few months and these assets start being seized, many of the crooks would try to sell them off or EFCC would be selling the seized ones off, hence flooding the market with supply and leading to a price correction.

Also, with the 50K homes being planned in Eko Atlantic City and a UN report stating Nigeria needs to build 700K homes annually to fill the needs gap (which Fashola is probably going to set as a benchmark), I expect supply to drastically increase by 2020.

ThundrCork:
makes a lot of sense, but how many have access or understand these psycho-economic analysis? how many will be patient to reach the hope phase let alone the confidence phase? Nigerians are very impatient people and even worse when they are deprived their means of livelihood. While it is important for the government to employ stiff measures, they should also not forget that an uprising could easily unseat them. best to hold on to power and devise mild ways to make things right than employ stiff measures and loose control totally.

That is where the Nigerian government need transformation consulting experts involved or in an advisory capacity.

For those in the know, you will know there are tools one can use at eah stage to manage the emotional feelings of people to move them in the positive direction.

Apparently, I heard Empire have finally reduced (if not cut out) the irritating homosexual po.rn they were trying to promote.

I learnt that there has not been any homosexual kissing in like the last 6 episodes.

They have even drastically reduced the number of appearances of the homosexual son's boyfriend.

I am not surprised.

I read that ratings were dropping because of the homosexual content and poor, directionless scripts (even I heard the scripts is worse in the second series).

50 cent even made fun of this by highlighting that the homosexual content was putting black people off.

EfemenaXY:
Abeg stop laughing jare. I was tired when I typed all that.

Kia! I'm embarrassed!

Lol. I understand.

That is why sometimes I might see people's response to me in my mentions but I would not reply for days because what I need to say requires good research, concentration and construction. They might even see me commenting on other threads but have not replied to theirs. That happened a lot on the "Girl's Night Out" thread.

EfemenaXY:
Abeg don't start that line again...



Re: the bolded - you haven't taken into consideration the alarming rate at which the Naira devalues against the £ Sterling.

Okay, I tried to do a search of the historical exchange rate trend of NGN / GBP from 1960 but the best I could find was a 10 year historical trend provided by XE.com - an online foreign exchange currency converter tool which uses highly accurate, live mid market rates.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=NGN&view=10Y

So let's play with some numbers here:

Exchange rate as at 2^nd Jan 2006 by COB (Close of Business) was roughly 224pts (i.e: £1 = N224)
Exchange rate as at COB 20^th Dec 2015 was roughly 296pts
% increase over the 10 year period: ((296 - 224)/296)*100 = 24.32% or let's say 25%

Or better still if we calculate the percentage increase between the highest (315pts) and the lowest (175pts) within that 10 year span = 80% (I like to be optimistic)

So if my £4 Abuja property increases by 80% in 10 years, I'll be looking at an increase of £3.2 which brings the new value of my Naija pad to £7.2m ==> almost double the value in 10 years time. Not 150 years as you postulated... and yes, I think I should have all my dentures intact 10 years from now.

And going by the real life example provided by Phoenix480, I think it's safe to assume the figures I've provided are a moderate - conservative even, increase.

Unfortunately sweetheart, that is not how it works.

For example, the fact that the Zimbabwean Dollar devalued by 102% from $1 = Z$750 in year 2003 to $1 = Z$77,965 in year 2005 does not mean a property you bought in Harare for £1m in 2003 would be worth £102m in 2005.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2007/03/200852519429760702.html

If that was the case, I would sell all my bags of garri in Sagamu and invest all the earnings in properties in Zimbabwe, Somalia, Yemen and Syria and become the world's first Trillionaire.

phoenix480:
@Sagamite
Some of the facts you have stated cannot be argued with. Nevertheless, some of those theories (e.g. Demand and Supply) does not work in parts of Nigeria. And this Real estate bubble people have been mentioning for years, I am yet to see any. There have been prediction of prices crashing in places like Banana Island as early as 5 years ago, yet guess what happened...The land reclamation in places like Osborne Ikoyi is baffling despite the relatively high vacancy rate on the Island. I know of someone who spent over N150million reclaiming land in Osborne Forshore but recently rejected an offer of over N500million.

From my personal experience, since I took the plunge in investing in Nigeria's real estate, the returns have been impressive (albeit the unorderly business terrain).I have invested in a UK property several years ago so I can make a decent comparison on both sides.

Anyway at the end of the day, depending on each person's objectives: different strokes for different folks...

Yep, I understand your argument completely.

Nigeria is so unstructured and unorderly many things there (like the economy) is artificial. I even said this as recently as about 2-3 days ago:

https://www.nairaland.com/2787319/mtef-fec-approves-n6tr-expenditure/6#41172512

The typical traits about bubbles and pyramid schemes is that there would be some that make an absolute killing when it is ongoing and the going seems good, but when it tanks (and they will eventually tank), those left holding the cute baby would know that babies do shyt (i.e. those still in possession of the assets would realise their gold is actually a chimera). The ones that have exited would have been the winners and would thank whatever God they serve that they got out of the investment before it tanked and they made a killing. This is exactly what happened with the mid 2000 buying of shares in Nigeria when buying bank shares in Nigeria was seen as a no-brainer and easy money making scheme until it tanked.

Another trait about bubbles and pyramid schemes is that majority have no clue when it would tank. Many would even believe it would never tank as such groupthink beliefs are what sustains and grows the bubble/pyramid for as long as it lasts. Due to these beliefs, margins from the assets become extremely slim for new buyers as the current owners would be overpricing it as it is still seen as "gold". These beliefs continues until the artificiality is not sustainable anymore.

I am saying all these things about traits out of my independent thoughts, but I can bet my assets on it that someone (some professor/banker) would have written a book stating what I am stating, I just have not seen the book yet.

You can never say supply and demand are irrelevant/does not work in any pricing. That is the core and logic of pricing. The only thing that restricts their importance in pricing is lack of information about them, anticipatory changes of them and government interventionist/control policies forcing a disconnect between them.

My general policies about investments is that: If it looks too good and easy to be true, it would not be that good in the long run.

That policy even becomes more relevant when the product generating the 'good' so 'easily' is of poor and inferior quality.

khiaa:
Lol Work and school are kicking my butt on top of that I'm serving jury duty,
so I've been quite busy, besides I have to continue to work hard so that I can provide for you in your old age.
So what have you been up to.

I like the sound of that. You know your responsibility and working hard towards it.

Jury duty?

I have done that too.

My policy, if they are black, they guilty. .................I am Racist! (Joking)

What are you studying?

EfemenaXY, I just recalled where I saw the vacancy rates and the source.

It was while going through one of the reports of Lagos Business School. They, unlike the quack journalists, referenced their source and you will see it was from Bismarck Riwane's firm.

Look at page 88-92: http://www.lbs.edu.ng/LBSBreakfastClub/Monthly%20economic%20review%20-%20May%202014.pdf

EfemenaXY:
Okay, I get what you're saying and I don't disagree with some of your points - but my outlook is slightly different.

The UK is a developed nation. Nigeria is a developing nation. Housing prices in the UK are closely linked to either upward / downward trends in the economy. Controlling factors such as Inflation Rates, Retail Price Index, Consumer Price Index, etc. are all determining factors. What's the equivalent in Nigeria? Nothing is appropriately monitored there. Does there even exist an equivalent of the Office for National Statistics (OFNS) over there? I had a read of the links you posted but those articles were based mostly on the reporters' opinions. Nothing backed with hard facts and figures, but then again nothing surprising there.

One national statistic agency actually exists. It is called Nigerian Bureau of Statistics.

It is full of products of a failed education system churning out mediocre statistics.

As for the vacancy figures, they are not the respective reporter's opinions. Most of them actually got that figures from Bismarck Riwane firm's (Financial Derivatives Company Limited) reports and Broll Property Services' reports without bothering to reference it. I know because I have seen the reports myself and was tracking it for a while because of something I was doing.

EfemenaXY:
See, my analogy is quite simple. Basic even. With development comes job opportunities, which in turn brings in a lot of potential customers for the housing market in Naija which = a demand for housing. Based on what you say about a changed and cleaner government (which I find hard to believe but let's be optimistic), coupled with the Chinese, expatriates, and foreign investors trickling in - then imminent "progress" should be on the cards, and this should transcend into a surge in people and flocking to major city areas in the hope of acquiring jobs (albeit well-paying jobs), and businesses wanting to cater for high-brow clientèle.

Yep, you are right but the issue there is that there is already over supply in the high end pricing (not quality) range.

The supply for those limited numbers of upper customers already exist, but it is just not value for money.

Most of the flats (not houses) on the Island and Lekki axis, in a sane environment, should be priced and catering for those earning in the N6-8m a year earning range. But when the rents are going for N2-8m a year, some more than the annual salaries of these people, then it is gross price inflation; hence why they are empty.

And more and more are still being built in Lekki.

There is currently a strong mismatch between the quality levels of houses and the occupants' earnings especially at the upper-end.

What people are paying is not matching the quality they are getting relative to sane worlds.

EfemenaXY:
The point(s) you make about transportation and infrastructre are interesting ones, but let's be realistic. How long will it take the government to deliver on it's promises to provide the basics? Take transportation for example - I do not for one second believe an efficient railway can be built an completed within the lifespan of one government in power even if they succeed in running for a second or even third term in office. So until that's up and running, what happens to the expectations for affordable housing?

Neither do I.

I am looking at the far longer term, circa 10-20 years.

There is already a metro system being built in Lagos. From Alaba area to VI.

The Chinese are looking at the rail from Lagos to Kano, which should open up the north of Lagos to the CBD.

If all these kick in, then Lagos would open up.

One of the things causing the price inflation is because of the concentration in Lagos due to lack of infrastructure. Have you noticed anytime you have people from Nigeria visit you in the UK, when you take them out, they are always complaining that the journey is too far?

That is because 70% of people living in Lagos, live in 30% of Lagos. Unlike in London where we are well spread out.

EfemenaXY:
At the moment, there is a chink in the government's armour and those with a keen eye for detail tap into such situations, milk, make the most of the situation and move on to the next best thing. You didn't address the point I made about transforming that property into a swanky hall of residence for students of wealthy parents. You made some interesting points about a lot of unoccupied properties for rent. Okay. But what about those serving as guest houses / top-end hotels in Abuja prime areas. How do they do it? What or who's to say the same can't be done for this property?

If you want to transform it into halls of residence, then no shaking but after you pay £4m, I doubt you would make your money back in your lifetime.

Let me do some quick calculations for you:

It has 8 bedrooms, so lets say you somehow shockingly find some wealthy students with parents willing to pay to rent a room for N1m par annum per room, that is N8m per annum.

£4m = N1.2bn

N1.2bn/N8m should give you 150 years to recoup your investment (ignoring inflation and increases).

You go still get teeth then?

Not to forget, your extra money to refurbish, your maintenance costs and the fact you will not find students paying N1m to rent a room and be going to University of Abuja.

As for guest houses and top-end hotels, they do it because they are the only options for a small pool.

EfemenaXY:
Not all Nigerians are on the breadline, struggling to exist, living solely from hand-to-mouth. There are a lot of them out there living it up with the money to burn. So where else would they burn it if not at exclusively built expensive properties serving as guest houses, etc? I agree the interior of the property you posted looks quite grim to be honest, but like I mentioned in my previous post, it's nothing that a good lick of paint with some imported items from furniture stores over here wont put right.

The volume of Nigerians in those class of 'living it up' is very low.

They are, according to a survey, less than 10,000 Nigerians in that dollar millionaires bracket. And most of them burn it in London, Atlanta and Dubai. Some of them burn it building houses in highbrow areas in Lagos and FCT which they leave empty because they see it as a stable long-term investment.

Even less than 2% of Nigerian households (i.e. about 660K households) earn more than N10m a year. Household income o (i.e. combining husband and wife earnings where it applies), not just individual incomes.

So you can conveniently assume less than 1m local Nigerians live a very well-off life.

EfemenaXY:
Finally, you mentioned globalisation being one of the driving factors in pushing up housing prices in the UK. Now if this present Nigerian government is half as good as you say they are, then Nigeria should be heading towards a similar scenario, which in turn should translate into lots of people from all over the world wanting to buy property in Abuja, as they do in London. And if this causes a shortage in supply, then wouldn't it stand to reason that this grossly overpriced property will be snapped up ASAP by foreign investors?

I agree, but I can guarantee you it would be new housing stock they would buy, not the rubbish like the one above.

Poor quality builds would not attract them.

The supply at the moment at the high-end, if the prices are surprisingly maintained are enough to satisfy any forecasted influx.

Not to talk about more coming from the construction of Eko Atlantic City.

Here is more details about vacancy rates in Abuja highbrow areas (35%).

http://allafrica.com/stories/201412010024.html

This is before rail construction and good roads.

Overpriced rubbish

Someone wants to sell me such stuuupid kitchen for £4m?

E no go better for their entire generation.

EfemenaXY:
The Ealing property is definitely more beautiful, more "eye-catching" no doubt about that but I think I'll go with the Nigerian property.

For starters, the latter has got over double number of rooms compared to the former, and the increasing value of any property is directly proportional to the number of rooms it's got. Then when you throw in the prime location of the Nigerian property, you've got a no brainer in your hands in terms of it's potential to generate more money.

Look at it this way: Nigerians are big time consumers of anything branded "foreign" from the West. The cosmetic changes needed to make the Abuja property sparkle or become equally eye-catching can be easily resolved by shipping in a container or two jam packed with stuff from Argos/Currys/B&Q. The cost of doing that is nothing compared to the massive structural changes needed to further increase the value of the Ealing property - for which you may or may not even get planning permission (another bureaucratic, red tape, time-wasting but unavoidable evil).

Secondly, although the value of properties in both locations appreciates over time, the value of the U.K property is subject the constantly evolving "Boom and Burst" cycles - but then again, it depends on what you intended to use it for.

Like I mentioned earlier, dangle a few Western sparkles coated in glitter before the eyes of Nigerians and watch them dance to your tune - meaning you'll recoup the costs of your initial investment and more within the first year or two if you rent the modified Abuja property to high paying government officials / expatriates. Let it serve as a top notch guest house with all the bells and whistles, or covert it to an off campus student accommodation for wealthy parent with Ajebutter kids.

Saga go for the Abuja property and watch your account swell. You'll be smiling all the way to the bank.

phoenix480:
I would say NO to the Ealing pad and take the Maitama mansion.
As @EfemenaXY mentioned, it is about the future value of the properties. The property growth rate in Nigeria far exceeds the UK. I would rather buy a property that might double (in price) in 2-3 years than the other doubling in about 7-8 years.

I would caution both of you with your assumptions.

You have to take serious consideration into what are the drivers for the value appreciation you allude to and understand the likely changes in future.

Prices are impacted by (i) supply, (ii) demand, (iii) lack of information and (iv) price movement expectations.

House prices in the UK are mainly driven by a significant raise in demand due to the globalisation of its demand market. That is, people from all over the world want to buy in the London.

Expected price movement and supply not keeping up with the astonomical demand also play minor parts in UK prices.

House prices in Nigeria are mainly driven by lack of supply, especially of basic standard housing in safe areas and areas with easy commute.

Lack of information and expected price movements also play a minor part in the Nigerian prices.

Efe, as much as you state that UK houses are subject to Boom and Burst Cycles, I will tell you today (and mark my words), Nigerian houses are prime patients for a strictly Burst Festival.

They are overvalued because of lack of transportation infrastructure and basic standard housing supply. They are mediocre quality products being sold at monumental prices.

Would the UK global demand constrict?

Yes, I think so. Because as the citizenry complain about skyrocketing house prices, the government would have to introduce policies to restrict foreign purchase just like Australia has done. But they would have to do it gently to not damage the economy as many people have invested their net worth in property and a crash would cause an economic meltdown (as people lose their wealth). Government would focus on constraining price growth, not reducing prices.

How is the Nigerian Prices likely to change?

Now we have a sane and clean government, hence things are likely to be done properly.

We have an incorruptible President and we have a man called Fashola as Minister for Power, Housing and Works. We also have a competent Amaechi in Transport.

Then we have the Chinese coming in ready to build.

Once we start having good roads, rail and new housing stock, then you would see (with Fashola responsible for these) the change in supply dynamics and accessibility.

Remember Real Estate is the new big thing in Nigeria at present. Housing stock is already being built drastically. This would be accelerated with Fashola in charge and I see all these overpriced properties (that are mostly junk) crashing.

Already, at least 40% of housing stock in VI and Ikoyi axis are vacant because they are just overpriced. Once the supply increases and people can live in Amuwo Odofin or Ilupeju and get to work in VI by rail, you would see this vacancy rate escalate except prices come down.

http://uncova.com/greed-pib-fingered-for-over-60-vacancy-rate-in-ikoyi-housing-market

http://updates.hopefornigeriaonline.com/slump-in-demand-for-highbrow-properties/

Don't believe the hype you hear from Nigerian unreliable fools with their penchance for misinformation that you will recoup the cost of you buying from renting. These houses are not renting well.

Many blocks of flats in Ikoyi, I am told by reliable sources, are just there completely empty because the people that built them are thieves who don't need the immediate cashflow and did not build it on mortgage. Hence they can afford to leave it empty.

So as far as I am concerned, anyone buying properties now in Nigeria at the inflated prices they are advertised at would be losing part of his money in the coming few months as the prices would crash and they would also struggle to rent it out in the short term.

EnlightenedSoul:
He clearly said, "no woman of mine will work...", and then explained his views on how he feels women ought not to have to work, but then ended his personal opinion piece with a note of self-determination and choice (the man even went on to say that his preferred SAHM wife may go on to work if she so desires, but that she doesn't have to).

So who are the "they" he was referring to?

I suggest you watch the video again and listen to when she asked him "You don't think women should go to work"?

The question was not "You don't think your wife should go to work"?

And before any excuses, I would suggest to you that Christopher Hitchens, someone has logically tight as me, is a stickler for specificity. He did not confuse the question when it was asked.

Let me surmarise for you:

1) He does not believe women should go and work.

2) He believes they should have a choice to do so if they wish.

3) He personally would not want his own wife to work.

EnlightenedSoul:
That is the sticking point! His view isn't in conflict with feminism at all. Feminism/I couldn't care less if a man who wants a SAHM for a wife marries a woman who aspires to the SAHM lifestyle. That is a non-issue if there ever was one. Even the reverse-misogyny (misandry) you speak of doesn't address roles so much as being a doctrine of hate turned onto its head.

I just should you an independent video of women themselves complaining about moronic feminists and their attitude to SAHM and you are still arguing feminists are not like that.

EnlightenedSoul:
Lol! You're flat out wrong about the presenter. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if we've watched the same clip. Your excuse of her so-called positive subjective analysis/bias doesn't apply here as his speech was simple and devoid of the usual acrobatics you'd find in his writing and some of his other speeches, and Hitch was by no means a good-looking man either. Certainly, in his early days, but def not as he sat the chair opposite her. And she did flip out on him, and turn the question back to him several times in a state of appalled disbelief. She was so appalled by the SAHM model he was championing, she didn't hear any of his concessions! I'd advise you to watch the episode again.

"They" want babies, indeed. Lolllll.

I'd do better to ignore such other comments you spewed up there, as well as the self-aggrandizing sap peppered throughout...

You really don't understand.

Whether Hitchens is Tyson Beckford or not does not matter to a sapiosexual.

They fall in love with brains, not looks.

I think even Hitchens knew. You will note he asked her at the end if she said "ist" with her "sex-".

He wanted to be sure she said sexist and not sexy.

You don't understand the mating game that much. I am a Pro. I have a PhD in it.

EnlightenedSoul:
Nope. That he doesn't feel any woman of his should work simply means, for him, finding one who shares his views and is happy to play the role of the stay-at-home-mother.

Nope!

He did not just say "his woman", he frequently said "they".

Surely you don't think or have any knowledge he is a polygamist?

If you don't, then it should be easy for you to work out he means women in general.

This is exemplified by his reference to women as the gentler sex and that he finds it odd seeing women "coursing through the workplace".

He made it clear he believes and prefers women should be in the house except (i) they don't want to or (ii) needs be they work.

Not just his woman, but women!

Many of these prominent cretinous feminists are fcking lesbians for fck sake.

EnlightenedSoul:
The third point is the crux of the matter for feminism. The first two points are quite simply irrelevant, and wouldn't concern feminism inasmuch as the woman wasn't being subjugated or forced into that lifestyle.

Those 2 points are not irrelevant to feminist.

They would scream blue murder at the thought of anyone saying women are not equal in all ramifications except physical strength.

They would scream blue murder at the thought of anyone saying women's place is in the home and it is odd for them to be working.

All you would get is the fuuktards screaming sexist and misogynist all day.

They cannot even stand women stating they prefer to be subordinate to a man and women saying they would stay at home.

Many women are sick of reetarded feminist fuuktards.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZBpdZbSYSg

There is a difference between women that want sane, civilised and progressive equal rights to cretinous feminists women with their mad ideas and hatred of men.

Hitchens abides by the former.

EnlightenedSoul:
I quite disagree with the observation that the presenter is an enchanted sapiosexual impressed by his speech. I mean, just look at her. The woman in the clip is clearly appalled at the model being presented by Hitch, that of the SAHM lifestyle, which the host - or any other career-woman or woman of aspiration - can't help but see as an empty one.

She is!

She is not appalled, she is surprised!

She is surprised he would say it publicly.

She is like most other woman. She treats the same utterances/information/position/etc from different sources differently based on subjective analysis of the source.

If it was another man that said the same thing, like Peter Stringfellow, she would flip on him. It would not be smiles and banter, it would be frowns and disparaging remarks she would throw at him.

Just like the feminist fuuktard Charlotte Proudman. If she had been contacted by a 34 year old hotshot partner from a law firm, she would not have screamed sexism like when it was a man in his 50s.

Just like if Sagamite says on NL that he would smack the arsse or ogles women's titts on NL, it is seen as funnny/cute by most girls, but if some other fuuktard on NL did the same, he would be seen as perverted and mad.

EnlightenedSoul:
Besides, his speech isn't notably impressive in this one, anyway.

His speech is as impressive as any of his others on this because as usual, like me, he demonstrates his original thought (not populist BS) and he is willing to publicly state it and ready as fck to defend it with logic.

Unfortunately, the sapiosexual could not take the bait to challenge him as he planned, she was just getting horn..y. That is why we never got to him explaining his logic.

EnlightenedSoul:
And LOL @ wants to have his babies. Hah! You just reminded me of one of my coworkers. He once hung up the phone, and said aloud (without meaning to, of course...he was tired, lol), "She totally wants me!". It was a nurse inquiring about about her patient's test results..

Your coworker might have been a fooool but I see this all the time, girl. The presenter was an admirer who would proudly have his babies.

Her "surprise" (which you called appalled) is irrelevant. The subject is more important than his statements in her world.

It is like me. I say the fck what I want to say about religion but yet pull hardcore religious girls who one would think would only date "God-fearing" men from their faith.

They still get attracted even though I ridicule their God and religion at will.

Women love confident intellectuals that can win any dialectics and broaden their minds by stating things intelligently the way they have never seen. They find it impressive, sexy, intriguing and a challenge.

That is just women. Sapiosexuals take their love for it to another level.

They want babies!

khiaa:
Happy holidays Sagamite.

Before I even reply you, you need to explain why you always disappear for so long.

How can I get my retirement fund from you in my 2016 plans when I never even see you.

oyb:
Sagamite food Don ready

Our gominas latest photo stunt

Sometimes, someone has to watch this man with one's hand over one's face peeping through the crack of one's fingers as a way of coping with the cringe.

He really thinks this Amala publicity and profile development is what he needs at the moment?

God, he is so being badly advised.

He needs new PR advisors.

What he needs now is an Intellectual and Executive profile. Not the "Omo Isale Iyana Ipaja in Power" profile he is creating.

Instead of being on the streets and blindly sacking every public officials from the best era of Lagos to show his "competence", he needs to be exposing his plans and demonstrating innovativeness through eloquent public speeches and forums.

If Lagos needs a governor that can stop danfo drivers and Okada riders on the street, then they would have voted for Alao Akala.

Lagos needs visionaries!

EnlightenedSoul:
You're contradicting yourself. His points were not in conflict with feminist views in the slightest. And I wouldn't say it was his speech that stumped her. If you watch closely, you'll realize that her blatant disbelief stems moreso from her obvious inability to imagine that a women might actually want to go that route, i.e, be a SAHM! She's so caught up in the conundrum, she quite literally overlooks the fact that he's presented a choice, several times, lol.

There's a marked difference between feminist views and misandry.

His points are completely in conflict with feminist's views.

He told her straight up (1) where he feels women should be, (2) women are a different and weaker sex but (3) he believes women should have a choice.

Only the last point feminist would agree with. The first 2 points feminists would no doubt call "Misogyny" in anger.

Most prominent and leading feminists are misandrist fuuktards. And many of the leading media establishment are full of fuuktard liberals who are scared and too useless to challenge these feminist fuuktards.

The interviewer is obviously an average brain "liberal" who would have flipped if it was someone else that said what Hitchens said, but she was so much of a sapiosexual, she just held him in awe and can't imagine finding faults in him. She would have his babies if she had the chance.

EnlightenedSoul:
I'm so sorry to hear that, but that's almost too much coincidence for me. Well, my father is alive and fully-recovered. He doesn't run like before anymore, but he's the type you'd still see jog-walking the trails at the buttcrack of dawn. Pretty much the only thing I've noted SO and him have in common: athleticism and the affliction of being every bit a morning person.

That is good to here.

Cancer is some scary stuff.

Sorry, just seeing this.

Seems to have been lost in my mentions while being active on other debates.

4Play:
The reason I hadn't replied to your post is that an adequate response requires copious references to data which I don't have the time to gather here but I will make a few points. You have to note that the premise of my original post - that the new budget must be fuelled by debt - has already been conceded. The budget projects 1.8 trillion Naira in debt will be required, nearly a third of projected spending. That Naira sum of projected debt in one year has no historical parallel. Given Nigeria's budgeting history, you will know that it's likely to prove an underestimate by the completion of the fiscal year.

I did not know that.

4Play:
Now, in my original post, I made a point which I have noticed much of the analyses in the post-GEJ era has overlooked. I said the following: "If revenues next year would be high enough to meet such spending, it should be happening already."The boilerplate response has been that 6 months is insufficient time to remedy many years of damage, but that misses the point. If GEJ's administration was stealing 40% of our budget as you claim, not to mention stolen revenue as Sanusi's famous $20bn claim alludes to, merely changing government should see an improvement in revenue reported. Instead, data on non-oil tax revenue, oil production and oil revenue remain lacklustre.

This is not a question of fixing our problems within six months, that is a straw man. It is a question of seeing some measure of improvement which justifies the outlandish claims about previous corruption. Think of a simple thought experiment: Supposing as a UK resident you entrust a business in Nigeria to family friend who reports to you that yearly and monthly revenue were circa 24m naira and 2m naira respectively. Eventually, you are told that the friend is looting 40% of the revenue and as a result you replace him. After 6 months with the new replacement in charge, won't you be a bit taken aback if the new person is still reporting circa 2m naira a month in revenue? If you look at official reported data, it is as if the old government is still in power. In the light of the lack of improvement, continuing to claim that things will be better next year is the triumph of hope over experience. What Paul Krugman refers to as a zombie idea, i.e., a false idea which is not killed by evidence.

I thought it might be useful to leave you with a few links which illustrate what I am referring to: Here is an extract from an article referring to February 2015 revenue: http://leadership.ng/news/418438/faac-fg-states-lgs-share-n522bn-for-february

Here is September 2015 revenue: https://www.nairaland.com/2697931/faac-fg-states-lgs-share#39470160

Once you adjust for currency depreciation and the fall in oil prices for the respective periods, you can't see much evidence of improvement.

Well, I think there are 3 points you have to consider here:

1) The drastic drop in oil prices mean that revenues has drastically dropped. To make that $20bn now would probably take, at least, twice the amount of time it would take to have made it during the Yam Festival. Even after discounting the 40% of the yam being eaten during the time the country had a yam rush. Revenues from $110 per barrel is far higher than that at $42 per barrel.

2) Change/Transformation does not happen like that. Just because you change leadership does not mean people would change. They would need to see the change in paradigm and punishment being enforced at a level and style that is a deterrent. That would not happen in 6 months. Definitely not in 6 months PMB & YB used for planning. Many would have thought "This is Nigeria, you can't change anything. It is the way it is", so why would they change a habit their lifestyle depends on when they still have their system of crookedness in place? Worse still when the government had no ministers in those 6 months to control anything.

3) When you want to implement a transformation (which is actually what we are having in Nigeria now, not just "change" ), things tend to first get bad at the beginning before they get good (sometimes, very bad especially when what existed before is very bad and entrenched in the culture). Many things have to be deconstructed before being reconstructed. So much uncertainty creeps in because people struggle to see how it would all end and tie up together as they have not seen such transformation before and it is complex. That is what is happening in Nigeria now. Uncertainty is one thing that is the worst enemy of investors. That is why we are seeing and would be seeing a series of job losses in Nigeria for another 6 months or so.

We were living in an artificial economy where the Cretin and his Goats were lying to the people about all things while creating an unsustainable bubble. Now they have their cretins out there criticising on all things shamelessly to distract the government.

As someone that has worked on Transformation before and can lead one, I really never expected any positive reports of improvement in the short term. Especially as I know many of those in Nigeria responsible for the Transformation would not be trained in the skills and tools of Transformation, no matter how competent and intellectual they are.

So I expected the whole emotional cycle of change.

Many are in the "Doubt"/"Anxious" phase right now just because they don't understand it. Some would even move to a "Depression" phase before it gets better:

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/communicateandchange-101007022614-phpapp01/95/communicate-and-change-4-728.jpg?cb=1286419261

https://www.getcoherent.com/images/phasesofchange.jpg

Portsmouth86:
well if you got £4m to spend then money clearly is no issue, I prefer Nigeria to the UK and im White British

Yep, I prefer Nigeria to the UK as well .....................but always know that everything in Nigeria is always of faaaaaaaaaaaaar lower quality.

Anything of high quality that is equivalent to what we get here in the UK would cost multiple what we pay in the UK.

To get 24 hours light alone, in Nigeria, you will be paying like £2400 per year (for electricity alone) in some Serviced Apartment.

I bet your electricity bill in the Portsmouth does not exceed £400 a year.

If that UK house was built in Nigeria, I can guarantee you that the sale price would be something like £13m, not the £4m.

Portsmouth86:
think i would go for the Naija house...but with the inside of the UK property... but Naija flooring

Just mix it up

You must be joking.

The UK one wins hands down in all ramifications except the exterior.

We all know UK houses have boring and monotonous exteriors.

The Nigerian house has no style, no soul, no planning, no brain.

They just threw in some few shipped in bath and jacuzzi equipments in a poorly lit construction and they think it is worth £4m.

Look at the kitchen cabinets people installed and want to sell for £4m.

Yeye people.

My people have mental health problems.

3strike:
I go just farabale build mine or go buy a property in Texas where everything is big.

Take a guess how much this house is going for?

Depends on what is inside and the location.

lalasticlala:
Lol. U r funny

Mate, the thread is not showing up in the property section list.

It is somehow still missing.

AjanleKoko

Naijababe

lalasticlala:
Lol. U r funny

Check you PM.

Here are two properties priced at around £4m pounds each in Nigeria and the UK respectively.

Which do you think is value for money? And how do you think they compare?

8 Bedrooms Duplex, 5 Sitting Rooms, 2 Bedrooms Guest Chalet, 2 Rooms Boys Quarters, Penthouse, 2 Kitchen And Swimming Pool

Maitama District, Abuja

https://images.nigeriapropertycentre.com/properties/images/55144/133335_55144-brand-new-exquisitey-finished-mansionate-8-bedrooms-duplex-5-sitting-rooms-2-bedrooms-guest-chalet-2-rooms-bq-penthouse-2-kitchen-and-swimming-pool-detached-duplexes-for-sale--maitama-district-abuja-nigeria.jpg

https://images.nigeriapropertycentre.com/properties/images/55144/133336_55144-brand-new-exquisitey-finished-mansionate-8-bedrooms-duplex-5-sitting-rooms-2-bedrooms-guest-chalet-2-rooms-bq-penthouse-2-kitchen-and-swimming-pool-detached-duplexes-for-sale--maitama-district-abuja-nigeria.jpg

https://images.nigeriapropertycentre.com/properties/images/55144/133348_55144-brand-new-exquisitey-finished-mansionate-8-bedrooms-duplex-5-sitting-rooms-2-bedrooms-guest-chalet-2-rooms-bq-penthouse-2-kitchen-and-swimming-pool-detached-duplexes-for-sale--maitama-district-abuja-nigeria.jpg

https://images.nigeriapropertycentre.com/properties/images/55144/133339_55144-brand-new-exquisitey-finished-mansionate-8-bedrooms-duplex-5-sitting-rooms-2-bedrooms-guest-chalet-2-rooms-bq-penthouse-2-kitchen-and-swimming-pool-detached-duplexes-for-sale--maitama-district-abuja-nigeria.jpg

https://images.nigeriapropertycentre.com/properties/images/55144/133338_55144-brand-new-exquisitey-finished-mansionate-8-bedrooms-duplex-5-sitting-rooms-2-bedrooms-guest-chalet-2-rooms-bq-penthouse-2-kitchen-and-swimming-pool-detached-duplexes-for-sale--maitama-district-abuja-nigeria.jpg

https://images.nigeriapropertycentre.com/properties/images/55144/133341_55144-brand-new-exquisitey-finished-mansionate-8-bedrooms-duplex-5-sitting-rooms-2-bedrooms-guest-chalet-2-rooms-bq-penthouse-2-kitchen-and-swimming-pool-detached-duplexes-for-sale--maitama-district-abuja-nigeria.jpg

https://images.nigeriapropertycentre.com/properties/images/55144/133337_55144-brand-new-exquisitey-finished-mansionate-8-bedrooms-duplex-5-sitting-rooms-2-bedrooms-guest-chalet-2-rooms-bq-penthouse-2-kitchen-and-swimming-pool-detached-duplexes-for-sale--maitama-district-abuja-nigeria.jpg

https://images.nigeriapropertycentre.com/properties/images/55144/133343_55144-brand-new-exquisitey-finished-mansionate-8-bedrooms-duplex-5-sitting-rooms-2-bedrooms-guest-chalet-2-rooms-bq-penthouse-2-kitchen-and-swimming-pool-detached-duplexes-for-sale--maitama-district-abuja-nigeria.jpg

https://images.nigeriapropertycentre.com/properties/images/55144/133347_55144-brand-new-exquisitey-finished-mansionate-8-bedrooms-duplex-5-sitting-rooms-2-bedrooms-guest-chalet-2-rooms-bq-penthouse-2-kitchen-and-swimming-pool-detached-duplexes-for-sale--maitama-district-abuja-nigeria.jpg


5 bedrooms, 2 receptions, Kitchen/dining room, Utility room, 6 bath/shower en suites, Cloakroom, Garden, Separate studio, Off-street parking

Ealing, London

https://search.savills.com/content/assets/properties/gbeersels150060/ELS150060_09_gal.JPG

https://search.savills.com/content/assets/properties/gbeersels150060/ELS150060_21_gal.JPG

https://search.savills.com/content/assets/properties/gbeersels150060/ELS150060_03_gal.JPG

https://search.savills.com/content/assets/properties/gbeersels150060/ELS150060_16_gal.JPG

https://search.savills.com/content/assets/properties/gbeersels150060/ELS150060_02_gal.JPG

https://search.savills.com/content/assets/properties/gbeersels150060/ELS150060_22_gal.JPG

https://search.savills.com/content/assets/properties/gbeersels150060/ELS150060_24_gal.JPG

https://search.savills.com/content/assets/properties/gbeersels150060/ELS150060_13_gal.JPG

Goats!

OLADD:
Friend, I am a man of conscience who hates to support evil acts but equally stands for justice. If anybody is found to have deliberately embezzled security fund meant for the fight against insurgency, the laws of the land should take its full course. However, I am convinced before any doubt that Buhari and APC are just using issues surrounding the NSA office to nail political enemies who're seen as a treat to them. If you don't believe this, why didn't the president query the source of money used for his campaigns? Why didn't he act on petitions of corruption written against Ameachi and Fashola and submitted to his office and EFCC months before they were confirmed as Ministers? Do you know that Kwankwasso's injunction against arrest for corruption has not been appealed by either the presidency or EFCC? Who's fooling who? Security Votes both at Federal and State levels had always been deplored for issues other than security, an act that cut across all the States including the ones under the control of APC. There's also no prove that the funds been investigated were entirely meant to fight Boko haram. Buhari should first of all clean the rots in APC before making scapegoat out of PDP. That's my point.

You are a cretinous fuuktard!

Man of justice my arsse.

Moronic, jobless, hungry youth that would sell his future for stomach infrastrucure.

Fuuktard!

In a corrupt country a government official is giving someone loads of money without any public announcement or bidding and you cretinous "man of justice" arsse is saying it is not corruption and the person getting the money does not know it was wrong.

E no go better for your entire lineage!

Na the outcomes of the corruption (poverty, armed robbers, bad roads, poor healthcare etc) go wipe out you and your family in the name of whatever God you believe in.

Cretin!

searay:
Can you go to the children section?

You are a cretinous fuuktard!

You don't understand the question?

Ralphlauren:
Ehen. So you can actually post with sense? Ki lo je yo?

Good to see a post from you without your outdated curse words

Shut up, fuuktard.

1wolex85:
Sometimes I wonder! why are you doing this? what kind of lame defence is this? Does what you wrote really make any sense to you? 'Anybody can give security advice', 'Dokpesi was paid to publicize achievements', what in God's name are you yapping about? What is the ministry of information there for? The so called security advice they paid 345m for was based on what? What other security work has the so called company done? Fear God o!

Those are the kinds of fuuktard defence of a paid foool to try and suppress opprobrium of the crooks.

Unfortunately for the fuuktard that created the moniker OLADD, he does not know the person that opened the thread. That is why he is giving moronic arguments.

I shall ruin his stomach infrastructure.

sherrylo:
Please stop trying to defend this. It involves the lives of selfless people who laid it down for us

He is a jobless fuuktard being paid to create accounts on NL and other social media to defend crooks.

oteneaaron:
M enjoying this show....
.but what. Amazes me is why a sane Nigerian would defend all these theives we have as leaders....... D..okpesi and Co. are theiving goats...and should be treated as such....dis is not the time to mince words....anyone who is guilty should be called guilty and nothing less....

That is how these jobless youth fuuktards feed themselves.

They become internet warriors for crooks, using multiple accounts and chatting illogical rubbish.

https://www.nairaland.com/1916318/nigerian-politicians-employ-internet-warriors