₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
Dictionary Definitions:
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First we have to understand cultural differences between the bible times and the present times which is still different from our traditional culture.

Culture is just the norm of a way of life of a people.

In the Bible times, there is NO courtship. What is available is Betrothal! And this is,


This is done family to family except in unusual circumstances and not boy to girl. If you like a girl, your family will send representatives to request for your hand in marriage not hand in friendship!



Now, God respects your culture when it comes to marriage as long as it does not violate the laws of purity and righteousness.

Dating is an American culture or better still western culture that we have all kind of adopted.

Is Dating a sin? No!

It is what people do within dating that could be sin or righteousness

BUT,
I have to balance things!

What is the Christian Definition of Courtship:
It is NOT a time to test your compatibility for marriage!
It is NOT a time to get to know and understand each other better.

Yes, these two will happen in courtship but the proper Christian definition is this!

Courtship is the period of time when a man and a woman intending to get married design the architectural masterplan of their future home.

It is a time to design your home to be! You can ask more question on this so that I won't derail the thread.

Christian courtship assumes
1. You have seen the person you like to marry
2. You have done your background check on (Salvation, Education, Character etc)
3. You have presented the person to God and God has given His approval
4. You have Proposed/He has proposed and the Answer is YES to the question
"Will you Marry me?"

Can Christians be friends with the opposite sex with no strings attached? YES!


Others may add scriptures to buttress or tone down the above position

Would it be right for culture to prescribe how a Bible command should be carried out? Remember Rebecca? Her family wanted to follow certain fiial rites before releasing her but Eleazar refused!

tintingz:
Why did Jehova witness said those verse where misinterpreted? They have their backups.

Well, they were not misinterpreted.

tintingz:
It's obvious the former is still referring to the latter in same context. Something like "God has sent me unto you"

That God being Named, "I Am''.

he LORD said to Moses, “I am the LORD; tell Pharaoh king of Egypt all that I say to you.”(Exodus 6:29)

It has been concluded.

As for John: " Before Abraham I am" to clear it " before Abraham God"? That didn't flow.

The Name both describes a Personality and His Duration. The usage in John considering the mention of Abraham, vis a vis the reaction of His listeners in that chapter shows that the latter Attribute being an exclusive preserve of Deity was intended.

See:
57 The people said, “You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?[j]”

58 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I am![k]” 59 At that point they picked up stones to throw at him. But Jesus was hidden from them and left the Temple.

Footnotes:
k
8:58 Or before Abraham was even born, I have always been alive; Greek reads before Abraham was, I am. See Exod 3:14.

Is dating and/or courtship before marriage scriptural? If yes, show Biblical references. I have one more in mind but trash this first!

tintingz:
God in old testament said "I AM that I AM" to Moses while Jesus only said "I AM". How does that mean Jesus was referring to himself as God? There is misinterpretation somewhere.

Jesus said "Before Abraham I AM"
I AM what exactly? I am an angel, slave, spirit, wind? etc

Let's use old testament style: "Before Abraham I AM that I AM"
This make more sense because God has concluded He's I AM that I AM.

The writer of John must have use old testament to suit Jesus being God, unfortunately John writer didn't get it right because God said "I AM that I AM" = twice.

And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

Exodus 3:14

OLAADEGBU:
Did Jesus declare Himself to be God by saying 'I AM'?

Yes!!!

raphieMontella:
it is not normal...
I wouldnt like such to be done to me...
So i see shouldnt do such to others.

Thanks a lot.

Lennycool:
He was only human, prone to mistake and sin. God on the other hand is supposed to be a moral compass, and completely perfect and fair.

So will it be fair to withhold justice from one who was like a favourite? We are derailing the thread already!

But what human judge today would punish a murderer and adulterer with the rape of his wives and killing of his innocent baby. Is this fair or even moral?

That's a case of reaping what was sown. Besides, how about judges that sentence such to death? Are they wicked too?

Lennycool:
So God punishing a man with the rape of his wife and the death of his baby is moral. You are truly insane for religion.

Thank you. But it is normal to commit adultery with another man's wife and kill him without no repercussions?

Lennycool:
I wish not to the rail the thread but you can't read verses like
2 Samuel 12:11-14
Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives[plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall liewith your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’

This was a judgement to a man that loved God dearly. He committed adultery with a man's wife and then killed the man! He was here being told of what the evil seed will yield. I see incorruptible justice here! Now Valentinemary, will man naturally invent such a God?

Or
Zechariah 14:1-2
a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken,houses plundered,women ravished; half ofthe city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.
And tell me that God is moral


Humans are already like this

This is a prophecy of what will happen in the future during the reign of the antichrist. This does not mean God delights in seeing it happen. Read verse 3 and see that God will defend them.

ValentineMary:
In South Western Nigeria for example it was once seen as normal for women to walk around topless. but today it is a taboo. Killing of unbelievers was once accepted in Europe but has changed today.

Can you give references to this historical records? I say this because it will help us examine the basis was it customs? Take for example when they were topless(?), was adultery rife? What led to the abolition? Besides, I hope you see how people dress today? And have you heard of naturalists in the west? There were certain things that changed not on the basis of morals but civilisation and exposure to other nations, not a change in morals. There was a time we lived in huts and ate with calabash or clay plates. That we now use modern provisions does not indicate a change in morals. The European example is purely religious-pointing to a standard though misapplied for ulterior purposes.

Actually in most cases these morals were dogmatically followed as laid down by the said deity yet it was still dynamic.

The function of God in the world of the primitive man was to make up for their ignorance. But today some stuck with it due to fear of a punishment or to have a companion of some sort. Others decided to carve their own path and shawn fear. [i] Actually there were lots of things unknown to the primitive man.

Indeed

They had no choice but to put a deity in the equation. And no they could not have done otherwise because they were ill equipped to handle such task as understand the "mystery" of the natural world.

Then why didnt they stop at that? Why include the aspect of morals that . Recall that man then was naturally such as ,"did not like to retain God in their knowledge". The very nature of man rebels against a Holy God, what then? Infact, the idols they invented as substitutes say much about what sought of god man can invent! Take for example baal and ashtoreth. These two idols were shaped like copulatory organs and worshiped accordingly. These idols had no commands that were positively beyond the natural man but rather had rituals that helped him explore the darkness of his depraved nature to the fullest.

And on morality, for the fact that we are social animals and conscious being, morality would be a connerstone in our evolution. Take a look at the ants, dolphins, whales, etc.

But history has shown that morality as we find it in the Bible can not be man's creation. The reaction of average man to laws should be enough to show that the last thing natural man will consciously invent is a holy God. He may forge gods that agree with his depravity but not One that disagrees with same.

DoctorAlien:
Jesus said "...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt. 19:17

But he had been keeping them? Why didnt Jesus then urge him on along that path? Simple, in the life of this young man, the Law had achieved its purpose,viz,bringing us to Christ, the Only Source of that Life!!!

DoctorAlien:
The Summary of the law is double-barrelled: there is the distinct command to love GOD with our whole heart and soul and mind and strength. Then there is the command to love our neighbor as ourselves.

Please, how do we love GOD with our whole heart and soul and mind and strength?

This can only be possible as the Spirit sheds abroad His Love in us. This is the onset of intimacy that makes us cry Abba Father. This love makes us to a greater or lesser degree say with the psalmist:

O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee:
my soul thirsteth for thee,
my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;
2 to see thy power and thy glory,
so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary.
3 Because thy lovingkindness is better than life,
my lips shall praise thee.
4 Thus will I bless thee while I live:
I will lift up my hands in thy name.
5 My soul shall be satisfied as with marrow and fatness;
and my mouth shall praise thee with joyful lips:
6 when I remember thee upon my bed,
and meditate on thee in the night watches.
7 Because thou hast been my help,
therefore in the shadow of thy wings will I rejoice.
8 My soul followeth hard after thee:
thy right hand upholdeth me.

When this is is the case, His life flows through ours, we being the branch,and His Love to others is revealed by us as out of our innermost being flows rivers of living waters. Against such a life there is no law!

DoctorAlien:
Belief in GOD is not the same thing as loving GOD.

We can only love Him when we believe on Him.

"Thou believest that there is one GOD; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19

So, how can we love GOD?

True faith works by love:

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

1 John 4:20,21

Still taking us to the Greatest commandment.


The rich, young ruler came to Jesus, he had obeyed the 10 commandments and you know what? The only condition of life the Master had for him was total surrender , and intimacy with Him, taking away the hindrance, in this case, his wealth! That is belief - total surrender in absolute dependence and an ever-growing intimacy!

Lennycool:
How can you say the biblical God(or any God for that matter) is responsible for human morals? The Abrahamic God is a supporter of rape, genocide, infanticide, incest, misogyny and homophobia.

I guess this was meant to be a thread for, "Pls only matured comments." The accusations you listed here are lopsided and any attempt by me to clarify this will derail the thread. Besides, it is the role of the Standard setter to also mete out punishments when and where it is deserved and that is why, contrary to your claims, those who were involved in executing justice also faced a similar punishment when they were guilty.

How is this moral?
Morals came about without any God or Gods, it is simply a trait possessed by intelligent lifeforms.

But there must still be a basis. Else morals gets coloured by the natural law of fairness based on survival of the fittest! It becomes fair as long as you are/or can prove to be the fittest, the means will justify your end!

DoctorAlien:
How can we love GOD?

By believing on Him. Because it is only by this that, having believed:
... God’s love has been abundantly poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Romans 5:5

DoctorAlien:
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10

That is why we dont get saved by keeping the law but by faith and we :

... died to the Law through the [crucified] body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.
Romans 7:4

DoctorAlien:
"Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had fromjavascript:void(0); the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning." 1 Jn. 2:7

vs 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

The Greatest commandment is his emphasis. Note that it's singular-commandment, not plural commandments.

DoctorAlien:
WRONG!

1. The Jews allowed a maximum distance of travel on the Sabbath day of 2000 cubits. Most cities then were small, and certainly going out of the city gate wouldn't amount to travelling over 2000 cubits.

Where do we find that in the law that was given? This is not a query, it sounds new to me perhaps you can prove this from the law else it appears to be in the category of man's rationalizing that Jesus condemned in Mark 7. Because, if this allowance truly existed, why did the pharisee accuse Jesus for healing on the sabbath and He condemned them as hypocrites for taking care of their animals on the same day? Sabbath was made for man so healing was acceptable, but these made much allowance like the one you mentioned, to quieten their conscience that they were keeping the law when actually they had broken it!

2. Paul unequivocally stated that he had never broken an law nor custom/tradition of their fathers. You think Paul was lying?

This was Paul alluding to the publicly known false accusation that he was against circumcision:

21 and they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Acts 21:21
What customs? Definitely not sabbath because if you claim that refers to sabbath that proves that no one observed it till after the law was given to Israel hence it's an OT issue peculiar to them;

Secondly, what was the remedy suggested by Peter and the rest? That he should observe the sabbath at Jerusalem? NO. Rather that he should do some ceremonial things as you will find in Acts 21:23-28 Hence Paul's speech in Acts 28 refers to this much publicized accusation as it concerns circumcision!

DoctorAlien:
In every case, God honors the faith of a Christian
who decides to keep the Sabbath regardless of
what happens to his job. Many times God works
miracles by making special arrangements for the
Sabbathkeeper. In some cases, He allows His children to be tested by losing their jobs, and then opens up better ones in response to their faith. Nevertheless, the “things” are always added when we trust Him and obey, regardless of the circumstances.

The real secret of keeping the Sabbath of the Lord is to have the Lord of the Sabbath in our hearts! It is love that leads God’s children to choose death rather than disobedience to one of His commandments. Jesus said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15). The apostle John defined love in these words, “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments” (1 John 5:3).

Now what is that commandment?
Here the good, ol Apostle help us out:

[b] And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment
[/b]1 John 3:23

The latter is the fulfilling of the Law and we cannot truly do the latter without the former!

DoctorAlien:
Modern critics of the Sabbath try to label Sabbathkeepers as legalists who are aliens to the grace of the gospel. Not so the writers of the Bible, who constantly associate obedience with true salvation by faith. In Acts 16:13 we have positive proof that Paul kept the Sabbath even when there was no synagogue and no Jews. He was ministering in Greece, where there were only a few scattered Jews and no synagogue at all. What did he do on the Sabbath? “And on the sabbath [size=18pt]we went out of the city by a river side[/size], where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spoke unto the women which resorted thither.”

Even with no church to attend, the apostle sought out a spot where religious worship was carried on—a place of prayer by the river—and preached to those who went there. Surely, no one can fail to discern Paul’s deep commitment to the Sabbath as we follow him in this unusual outdoor mission.

If you will read the context you will realise that the major reason Paul went there was because of the gathering that will be there, not to observe the sabbath. Besides, reading further, you will find that they baptised converts. Would I be right to say making a journey out of the city contradicts a claim of sabbath observance?

DoctorAlien:
There are some very interesting points in these dynamic verses that validate the Sabbath practices of Paul and his fellow Christians. After preaching in the synagogue, where the Gentiles were not permitted to enter, Paul was besieged by the Gentiles with an appeal to preach to them “the next Sabbath.” Many have charged that Paul only preached in the synagogues on the Sabbath because he had a ready-made crowd of Jews to work on. This is a false claim. In this instance, Paul made an appointment to minister to the Gentiles on the following Sabbath, and according to verse 43, many of those who heard him that day were “proselytes” to the faith. This means they were converts to Christianity, and Paul and Barnabas “persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.”

How interesting it is that their Sabbath worship is spoken of in the context of continuing in God’s grace!

THEY WERE NEW, RECENT PROSELYTES STILL AMONG THE JEWS WHERE PAUL MET THEM HENCE WE CANT BASE THIS ON THEM.


Now let's see the setting:
The chapter is Acts 13

But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. 16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.
14-16

Here Paul and his travel companion arrived at a place where there were Jews who had a synagogue and met there every sabbath according to their law. Note that 1. The audience here was not the Church; 2. Some gentiles were also in the synagogue having being inducted into judaism; they too were not the Church at least not at this time


42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
42

Here the gentiles, having been used to the sabbath worship requested that Paul & co will return the next sabbath. They did not realize that preaching could be done anywhere, not only on sabbaths!!!


Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, [size=18pt]It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you[/size]: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles
46

Here the Jews reject the Gospel, note Paul's major reason for going 1st to them in their synagogue! Up till this time, there was no Church there!


And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region 49

When the jews in the synagogue rejected, Paul & co went out and did not return to the synagogue but preached in all the region!

If anything is misrepresented, kindly highlight else, it is WRONG to say based on this chapter, that the early Church kept the sabbath!

blueAgent:
n

Moses was more like a Law Bearer not giver. a mere Mortal cannot be the giver of God's law.
The Bible confirmed that God himself spoke the Ten commadments .

www.the-ten-commandments.org/were-the-ten-commandments-abolished.html

But the Bible is unequivocal:

[b]For Moses gave us only the Law with its rigid demands and merciless justice, while Jesus Christ brought us loving forgiveness as well
[/b]John 1:17

ValentineMary:
So u think because we on our own can't decide our moral standing a greater being installed it in us?

Well its not a thread on morality and its source. However, there always has to be a plumb-line. Else, who exactly are the we? and on what basis do we decide? We may rebel against the standard in the name of dynamism but point is there has to be one.

We would agree that over the ages our morality has been dynamic. What we defined as moral 2,000 years ago might not be moral today.

Do you have any example in mind?

So if these morals were defined to us by a higher being then why should it be dynamic?

Because we are not without a choice? we may choose to rebel against such morals or rationalize but point still remains that there must be a plumb-line and that definitely did not commence with man.

If the dolphins can live in a peaceful community without a deity why can't we ?

Comparison between higher animals and higher gives a better picture.

Besides, we should wonder how possible and/or plausible it is for primitive man, at a time when life was nasty and brutish, to come up with the concept of an All-seeing, Holy God etc while 21st century man, with all the privileges and enlightenment of knowledge and civilisation, deny or change or dispense with same! What changed? If we say the latter became better enlightened and better informed, remember that the former had every reason not to conceptualize Same in the first place. Moreover, if the only basis for the introduction of the God concept by primitive man was to explain the seemingly inexplicable intricacies of nature, then can someone help us with how morals came into the picture?

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/acts/20-7.htm might be a good place to study.

DoctorAlien:
If there is no sin where there is no law, it follows then that there was a Law which Lucifer broke in Heaven.

And that was the 10 Commandments!

The first command enjoins us to not have any other god before Jehovah. Lucifer exalted himself in his heart above GOD.

The 10 command enjoins us to not covet anything that belongs to our neighbor. Lucifer coveted Christ's position.

"Sin the transgression of the law." 1 Jn. 3:4.

Dear brothers and sisters, if you continue transgressing GOD's law even when it has been shown to you that it is eternal and cannot be done away with, you really aren't doing GOD's will!

Here are you personal assumptions!!!

Even the Bible clearly says what the devil's condemnation was viz Pride! None of those assumptions you made were ever mentioned.

17 Your heart was filled with pride because of all your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. Therefore, I have cast you down to the ground and exposed you helpless before the curious gaze of kings.
Ezekiel 28:17

Nothing of covetousness or idolatry is mentioned!!!

blueAgent:
Moses was the one who gave the law to the Israelities, prior to this the law was known and praticsed by their Ancenstors.

Any proof for this assertion? Like Job, or Noah, or Enoch?

Besides, you contradict this:

We know that it was Adam’s sin that caused this[b] because although, of course, people were sinning from the time of Adam until Moses, God did not in those days judge them guilty of death for breaking his laws—[size=18pt]because he had not yet given his laws to them[/size] nor told them what he wanted them to do[/b]
Romans 5:13 TLB

blueAgent:
Upon the first day of the week never indicated they worshiped on that day. rather that day was choosen becos it was not the day of rest.

You confuse the meaning of worship in spirit. Who said place and time does not matter.how can you worship God in Spirit when you violate his commandments.
remember that Jesus will hold people who violates his laws.
Thus have ye made the
commandment of God of none effect by your
tradition." "In vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
Matthew 15:6, 9. "Her priests have violated my
law." "And her prophets have daubed them with untempered mortar, ... saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken."
Ezekiel 22:26, 28.

Sorry, are you referring to the early church here?

Misguided men of long years past
announced that God's holy day was changed from
Sabbath to Sunday. God predicted it would
happen, and it did. This error was passed on to our unsuspecting generation as gospel fact.
Sunday-keeping is a tradition of uninspired men and breaks God's law,

Note that this practise predates Constantine.

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Acts 20:7
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/acts/20-7.htm might be a good reference.

Sabbath remains saturday and there is

which commands Sabbath-
keeping. Only God can make a day holy. God
blessed the Sabbath, and when God blesses, no man can "reverse it." Numbers 23:20.

This was a covenant ratified by the blood of bulls and goats. Exodus 24:7,8 The Israelites down the line entered therein by inheritance. Where then do the Gentiles (like you and me) stand?

And if we are made acceptable in the beloved by the Blood of Jesus in a New Covenant, is there any proof that Jesus duplicated Moses' laws being the letter that kills or HE came with the Spirit of life?

Now since we have established that the law came by Moses (the OT) and Grace came by Jesus Christ, and [size=18pt]Jesus has plainly said that the Greatest command in the Law is not observance of sabbath but Agape-love to God and Man[/size]; and we see that in the NT, the love of God is shed abroad in our heart by the Spirit, love being the fruit of the Spirit, where does the sabbath stand?

Paul, a jew of jews, by inspiration said:

19 Why, then, the Law [what was its purpose]? It was added [after the promise to Abraham, to reveal to people their guilt] because of transgressions [that is, to make people conscious of the sinfulness of sin], and [the Law] was ordained through angels and delivered to Israel by the hand of a mediator [Moses, the mediator between God and Israel, to be in effect] until the Seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
23 Now before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, [perpetually] imprisoned [in preparation] for the faith that was destined to be revealed,
24 [b]with the result that the Law has become our tutor and our disciplinarian to guide us to Christ, so that we may be [c]justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under [the control and authority of] a tutor and disciplinarian.
[/b]Galatians 3 excerpts from AMP

It is therefore clear that the

blueAgent:
Do you know that the ten commandements existed before the time of Abraham?

And to who was it given? Remember the inspired Word:

Sin was [committed] in the world before the Law [was given], but sin is not charged [against anyone] when there is no law [against it]. 14 Yet death ruled [over mankind] from Adam to Moses [the Lawgiver], even over those who had not sinned [c]as Adam did. Adam is a type of Him (Christ) who was to come [but in reverse—Adam brought destruction, Christ brought salvation].
Romans 5:13,14

The point from the above is that Moses is the one referred to as the Lawgiver, meaning before his ministry, the law, as we know it, was not given. Besides, John also speaks on this wise:
For the Law was given through Moses, but grace [the unearned, undeserved favor of God] and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17

Any claims of the law being before Moses is to directly contradict this.

blueAgent:
This not what Paul meant by one esteemeth one day above the order.
To understand the Bible you need to look at it from every possible angle and take into consideration every Bible verse concerning the issue.Paul cannot instruct people to worship on a day different from what God commanded.

I will get you more details on this topic.

In the New testament, the call is to worship in spirit and in truth, hence time and place is not important. The OT was characterised by a Physical Temple and other outward forms but Jesus revealed the desire of the Father of true worshippers. That is why the early Church break bread every day and from house to house.

If you consider this:

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Acts 20:7

and

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
1 Corinth 16:2

The first day of the week was the Lord's day and that was there meeting time.

Just like the Lord's Supper fulfilled the Passover and the latter was to be done once a year but the former as often as they could, the resurrection of Jesus on that first day of the week marked, for them, a new beginning. Jesus , the Substance, had fulfilled the Law hence all that mattered was Him and abiding in Him.

Considering the nature of the average man, it is improbable that such would conceptualize the concept of being watched by an All-seeing Personality with such high demands! If God was invented as a result of some inexplicable phenomena, then how do we explain the involvement of morals? Besides, if we say that morals were included just to serve as a deterrent then remember that there was enough to deter anyone (without God in the picture).

It seems to me that the ones invented can be identified by their apparently depraved-nature friendly demands.

analice107:
I sent you a Pm. pls reply. thanks.

I have replied.