₦airaland Forum

DoctorAlien:
What do you have to say about Rom. 3:31 "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law" ?

Simple! It simply means the purpose of the law is properly served when those under it are brought to Christ. See this:
Galatians 3:24,25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be justified by faith
But after that faith is come we are no longer under a schoolmaster

The law was not redundant, it served/ and still serves this purpose! But if it fails in serving this purpose, this is the result:

Christ is become of no effect unto you whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace
Galatians 5:4

The law was to lead us to Christ not justify us. Note that he that is fallen from grace has no salvation because we are saved by grace through faith.

And what do you have to say about Psalm 119:160 "All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal" ?

What is the meaning of eternal?

I guess the answer above answers this.

DoctorAlien:
The 4th commandment is about as simple and straightforward as it gets. Christ saw no need to expatiate on that. The argument surrounding the Sabbath of GOD first appeared when the antichrist (pope) thought he could tamper with the law of GOD to accommodate all forms of paganism in Christianity. Of course, there are still a people who serve GOD in truth and in spirit, and who know that His righteous laws "...can never fail" (Luke 16:17)

Then who was the scapegoat that made Jesus and the Apostles silent about it all along as it being a prerequisite for salvation? Even the council at Jerusalem Acts 15:23-29 did not recommend it to the Gentiles!

DoctorAlien:
What man can claim he has Faith in GOD when he continues in disobedience to GOD's law?
1 John 2:3-4 "And hereby we do know that we know him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Amen.

1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave commandment

Wither the keeping of sabbath for salvation in the New Covenant?

DoctorAlien:
Now, I want you to answer this question honestly: of all the commandments in the moral law, why have you chosen to 4th one to attack constantly? You seem to have no problem with the other nine. Now, what is your problem with the 4th one?

Where did I attack? Have I not been quoting Jesus and the Apostles?

Now do you realise that the Law was just a part of the terms of the Old Covenant that God made with Israel? Now we are under the New Covenant and the righteousness in the NT(or if you like the Moral Law) demands not just a faithful outward observance to written codes but a transformation of heart and a reception of Life and expressing same by faith!
From the sermon on the mount, we see that God's expectation from NT believers is higher than just the facial value of the 10 commandments but a heart in tune with the substance and essence thereof.


Consider the exposition of Christ on some parts of the OT in Matthew 5. What then might we say is the deeper dimension of the 4th commandment if Christ were to teach on same. I find the answer in Matthew 11:28-30 and Hebrews 4:3,10

Philadelphia:
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

I am still waiting for that passage where Jesus or ANY of the Apostles fervently exhorted observance of the sabbath as a means of obtaining salvation.

Philadelphia:
You keep talking about fulfilment of the law. Yet, you know nothing about what this means.

Any different from what Paul said here:

that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit
Romans 8:4

Well, this is what fulfilling of the law means. Jesus indeed fulfilled the law and not abolish it.

Yes, so that when we believe on and are joined to Him Who is the Vine, His Life flows through us:

that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

Now here's what James said:
James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Yes, this just corroborates the fact that salvation does not come by the law but salvation by faith enables us to keep the law and that is why James follows up with faith and works in that chapter! Now Paul said the same thing in another way:

knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, [size=14pt]that I might live unto God[/size].
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain
Galatians 2:16-21

He went on to state most clearly:
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:4

Before you accuse me, Sabbath observance is also part of the law being referred to not just circumcision!

If the law was abolished by Jesus, why would James still be quoting it? Here, you find James also quoting from the 10 commandments.

In the above texts, Paul and James first start by making us know that the fulfilment of the law is to love. For people like you who would get it confused, they further go ahead to explain what this love means in context of "you shall love your neighbour as yourself" by giving us examples on how to love our neighbour. This they did by pointing us to commandments 5 downwards.

Why the deafening silence on sabbath observance if it is key to salvation?

Philadelphia:
DoctorAlien did not say "the antichrist had not come yet." He only said "the antichrist (papacy) had not attempted to change times and laws"(Daniel 7:25)."
This shows clearly that the antichrist had come but not yet "attempted" to change God's Divine Laws.

The antichrist has been here even in the time of Paul 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

There is a difference between the one (called the son of perdition/the prince etc) and the many forerunners possessed with the spirit of the one. The one was described in full in both Daniel and Revelations!

So you are the one not understanding the scriptures as you claimed the antichrist has not come whereas the bible (as I quoted) makes it clear that the antichrist was even in the time of Paul.

This is a one-sided claim that overlooks passages like:

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2 Thess. 2:7-9

This one had not yet come in Paul's time what they had then were just forerunners of him:

3 and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1 John 4:3
The spirit of the antichrist has been at work since that time (i wonder why you people claim it's the pope). But there is still a man of sin, antichrist to come that will carry out his exploits for just 7 years, half of which will be terror.

Your not understanding this is due to your misconceptions about who the antichrist is and his mission.
Mind you Paul kept the Sabbath Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Where did he charge the gentile converts to keep the sabbath? Did Paul keep the sabbath as a means of obtaining salvation?
Besides, Acts 16:13 has something to tell you.

I just discovered you don't read the posts before commenting.

False accusation that!

You asked where Jesus charged anyone to seek salvation by observing the Sabbath. Well, here it is
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Let's see:
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Matthew 19:21
The man had been obeying the law before then but still felt a need, a lack which the law could not satisfy!!! Take a cue from this man bro!
I am sure you have not done as much as he did and yet he had a need!!!

You quote bible verses in parts just to suite your points.

Alright'

From Matthew 12 where you quoted, Jesus was explaining to the pharisees that they make Sabbath keeping appear as a burden (which is not), that even the priests (who they hold in high esteem) break the Sabbath and they see them as "blameless" simply because they do not expect en understand what it means to keep the Sabbath. Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

And Jesus went further to say the one who is greater than their priests (Himself) is here. How can they accuse the greater (Jesus) of breaking the Sabbath and honour the lesser who even break the Sabbath (priests).
Jesus was not in anyway encouraging the priests who broke the Sabbath by saying they are "blameless". Else, he would be encouraging sin because sin is the transgression of God's law (which includes the 4th commandment).

So, was Jesus a sinner? God forbid!!! were the priests sinning? God forbid! Jesus said they were blameless even after profaning the sabbath The new testament believers are the priests and the Temple and hold to He Who is the Lord of the sabbath!!! Selah!

forgiveness:
So, are you righteous, holy and perfect?

Pray how does this relate to this discourse on sabbath?

DoctorAlien:
This is a lie most terrible. Christ blotted out the handwritings of the ordinances against us and not the moral Law of GOD.

Then tell that to Paul and the Spirit Who Inspired Him:

that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4

The highlighted has nothing to do with the ceremonial but the moral law!

Do you know that in fact Christ had to die because the moral Law of GOD (the 10 Commandments) cannot be tampered with? The wages of sin is death. What is sin? 1 Jn 3:4 answers: "...sin is the transgression of the Law". The sinner had to die, or another would die in his stead. "...Without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."(Heb. 9:22). What the blood of lambs could do for persons who sacrificed them was to just cover their sins; it could not blot them out. A more perfect sacrifice had to be made for sins, and Christ was the perfect sacrifice. He died to save us all from the death penalty hanging on our heads because we sinned. HALLELUYAH!

Yes and when we receive Jesus Christ, the Spirit indwells us and we are enabled to walk such that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us! Besides we are enabled to serve:
... in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Romans 7:6b

DoctorAlien:
Jesus and the apostles had no need to call out Sabbath breakers particularly when they taught about relevance and sanctity of the Law because then, the antichrist (papacy) had not attempted "to change times and laws"(Daniel 7:25).

A rather indirect way to wrongly say the NT needs updating to meet the new developments that were not there!!! The antichrist has not come yet, what is prevalent now is the spirit of the antichrist. The NT is complete and applies to the Church of all time!
When Paul by the Spirit described the moral conditions that will be prevalent in the last days, why is sabbath breaking missing from the list?

Do you know when and how disregard for the holy Sabbath of GOD came to be? From Adam up until the death of all the early Christians, no man disputed the sanctity of the holy Sabbath of the LORD. That was until the beast, the antichrist, the papacy thought it could tamper with the eternal Law of GOD.

How would you reconcile this said by Jesus with your exaltation on the sabbath?:

5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Matthew 12:5

Paul upheld the moral Law of GOD(Romans 3:31). Jesus emphasized the irrevocability of the Law (Matt. 5:17-19). All the holy men of GOD throughout the ages have kept the Sabbath of GOD.

Why do you think it should be any different now?

And where did Jesus charge ANYONE to seek salvation by sabbath observance? And where did PAul tell the Gentiles,'except ye keep the sabbath after the manner of the fathers and Moses, ye cannot be saved?'

Niflheim:
Question: What do "Shrek" and the bible have in common?
Answer: Talking donkeys

Question: What does the cartoon "Jungle Book" and the bible have in common?
Answer: Talking snakes

Question: What does the "Lord of the Rings" and the bible have in common?
Answer: Flying Horses

Question: What does the bible and the movie, "The Mummy Returns" have in common?
Answer: Zombie armies rising en masse from the grave.

Conclusion: The Bible is a house built on 4 pillars. Stupidity, Buffoonery, Imbecility and Oloshiologies!!!

What a privilege to be in possession of such a Unique Book!

DeathStroke007:
you are educated illiterate..


despite quoting from different bible scholars and from Catholic Bible
. yet you saying trash...

Thanks for the compliment! I guess you either didnt see the clause acknowledging the unreliability of the traditions (depended on by your 'scholars') or you deliberately ignored it

Philadelphia:
If observance of the weekly Sabbath is not a prerequisite for salvation, what did David mean here:

Psalms 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. 119:166 LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments. 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness. 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. 119:176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

Was David speaking from the NT perspective
The highlighted sounds like this that Paul and BArnabas resisted:

And certain men which came down from Judæa taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them,
Acts 15:1,2a
Only difference being that yours is sabbath.

Did the Apostles go about asking the Gentiles to observe the sabbath in order to be saved? Did Jesus EVER make any allusion to such? The attempt to change Colossians quoted before is of your own making because there is absolutely nothing in that verse to agree with it.

Circumcision is part of the other sabbath feasts (not the weekly Sabbath day) that was nailed to the cross. I hope you know that there are various sabbaths?

Why don't you celebrate feast of tabernacle, passover, pentecost, feast of new moon, kill lamb? (Ceremonial law)

Christ is the Substance thereof.

Why do you see stealing, adultery, killing, disobedience to parents as sin? (Moral law). But you don't regard the 4th commandment which is part of the moral law (different from the one mentioned in the ceremonial law).

Let's ask the Apostles and Christ Who at NO time called out 'sabbath breakers' and the need for them to repent and keep the sabbath in order to be saved!!!
Besides, since the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in believers who walk after the Spirit, it means therefore that Christ fulfilled both the moral and ceremonial!

It's because it is the ceremonial laws that have been done away with (the ordinances nailed to the cross). Paul specifies them in Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: so that we can be clear on the law (ceremonial law) which he was talking about. There were feasts of meats, drink, sabbaths of blowing trumpets, sabbaths of leaving a land to fallow, etc. These were all ceremonies unlike the seventh day Sabbath.

Bro, did you see the highlighted? I ask again, where did John/Peter/Paul write to the Gentiles to exhort them to observe the sabbath?

And that sabbath means rest makes it synonymous with the demand of faith (resting in the works of another) before salvation! To keep the sabbath, they had to trust God's supply to cover that period of abstinence from working and also trust His faithfulness to preserve the manna from rot especially when there would be nothing to gather!

I believe our sabbath in the NT is our faith of Him by which we live Galatians 2:20! That faith by which we seek depending on our work and trust His Work and after we have believed we live by the faith of Him that Worketh in us both to will and do of His Good Pleasure, working in us that which is well pleasing in His Sight!

bulldoza:
You Christians are just so obsessed with Jesus.

to me, this is a compliment!

Instead of focusing on the MESSAGE, you people placed priorities on the MESSENGER.

Yes because the Messenger in this case is the Message!

THIS IS BLASPHEMY!

Against Who?

And on the last day, Jesus himself will deny you people because he won't allow you people put him in trouble.
Jesus Christ is not God. Jesus christ is only a messenger of God almighty.
stop deceiving yourselves with bullshıts and go and look for the truth Jesus talked about.

Oh you mean the one chronicled in the failed 'gospel of Barnabas'?

You Christians are just hypocrites.

Another compliment! Thanks bro; keep em coming!

You condemned many laws of the old testament. Jesus never condemned the laws, in fact, he said that he came for the fulfillment of the Mosaic laws:

Yes He came to fulfil (not the same as obey; go search for the difference).

Mathew 5:17-20 reads:
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one
jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least
commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be
called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but
whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

Do you know what that highlighted means and its implication for religions with abundance of externals?

These are Jesus’ words, from his lips.

Jesus also said this:
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, [size=14pt]Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him[/size].

John 9:35-37

What then?

But what did Christians say? What do they believe? Do they talk about the fulfillment of these laws?

Sure, the righteousness of the law is fufilled in us who, after believing on the Lord, walk after the Spirit!

They better be because if they don’t, according to Jesus, “they shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven”.
Jesus teaches the unity of God; the oneness of God. In
the 12th chapter of Mark, it was reported that a man came to Jesus and asked him: “which is the first of the commandments”? and Jesus answered: “The first of all the
commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.”
Yet, most Christians says

Yes, the average Israelite knew that. But why didnt they stone David and Isaiah when they said respectively:

The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand,
until I make thine enemies thy footstool
Psalm 110:1

Remember Jesus quoted this in Matthew 22:42-44 as a reference to the Christ!

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
The mighty God,
The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6

Jesus is God. It’s an amazing
situation. Jesus says: The Lord our God is one Lord; Christians says: no, it is the trinity in the god-head. Contradicting the message of Jesus. Nowhere from the lips of Jesus, did he utter trinity! And that is the core problem of the churches: they preach what Jesus never preached.

This is like saying Jesus never spoke French so those that call God, Dieu are saying what Jesus never said.

They say Jesus walked down the Palestine as a divine being.
The question here is, did he says he is God? Did he claim to be God? Did he says am god worship me? There is not in any version of the bible where explicitly Jesus says
listen everybody: I am god! He never make such claims.

Why Would He?

As regards His earthly life, get this down:

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:5-9

In fact, he rebukes such claims.
In Mark, 10 and Luke 18, when a certain ruler asked
him, what to do to inherit the eternal life, Jesus says to him: “Why callest thou me good?
none is good, save one, that is, God. He didn’t even want
to be called good much less god. But did the christians
follow this instruction? Not at all! In fact, they called him god.

He related differently with discernment. so, before you flee and try to establish claims on one encounter, try to balance everything!

35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, [size=14pt]Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him[/size].

John 9:35-37

I wonder if Jesus was present today how he is
gonna react to this blasphemy. Probably too tense. As a Prophet and a messenger of Allah , Jesus explicitly
declares in the 8th chapter of john: "I have not come on my
own; but he (God) sent me."
He says further, “my father is greather than I.” Jesus’ mission was to convey the message given to him by his
Lord. He was no more than a messenger. He says:
I can't of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge:
and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own
will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

All these was because the Word was made flesh and He humbled Himself. Show me where He spoke on this wise after rsurrection or in Revelations and I will believe you!

The teaching of Jesus is not something new;

You mean teachings like:
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
John 5:47
Who EVER said this before Jesus?

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of [size=14pt]the world[/size]: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:12
Not only of Israel!

it’s a kind of transition from the earlier teachings beginning with
Abraham. If we take prayer for example, how the
previous prophets pray to God, we will witness a clear consistency in their message.
The bible tells us: quote:
“And Abraham fell on his face and pray” genesis 17:3,
and moses and Aron fell on their faces and prayed
(numbers 20:6) and Jesus fell on his face and prayed
Mathew 26:38).
And that is excatly how Muhammad SAW prayed and the whole muslim world prays like that. The christians don’t pray like that though

Pray? Who said this:
And [size=14pt]when ye stand praying[/size], forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mark 11:25

They have their own kind of worship. Who is really trying to imitate Jesus? Christians or Muslims?

Jesus also said this to a woman who believed in worshipping in a mountain etc :
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:23
Not in forms and rites and prayers by rote. As regards the latter, He even said:

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Matthew 6:7

And that is the main problem of christianity: its not a religion of Jesus; it’s the religion constructed about Jesus. The message of Jesus is Islamic in every sense: believing in one God, he never mention the mystery of trinity; that
he’s a preacher, teacher, messenger and no more; that salvation rests by keeping the commandments; and son.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

In fact even his diet isn't christian, Jesus’ diet is islamic
as he didn’t eat pig he kills over 2000 pigs says the bible. For we believe that Jesus was a muslim; and his message is islam.
Little wonder that on his second coming he is going to
rejects the christians for they misunderstood him and his message.
The bible tell us in the 7th chapter of Mathew:
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out
devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus is going to rebuke the christians, and this is in consequence of the diversion in christianity from the real message.

And yet He stood to receive the first martyr Stephen? And yet in Revelations He sent messages to 7 churches? Indeed, the Jesus you are talking about is the ,'another Jesus' or one of the many false Christs Jesus and His Apostles warned us about!

Its like a dialectic between the 2billion Christians and Jesus.
[u] Christians are more concerned with the one who did the
preaching than what he preached.

The Gospel is Jesus Christ and the Redemption He accomplished on the Cross! Millions have received, believed and sailed into Eternal glory!!! Why not join them?

Let me ask you a question which your ustadh have been avoiding, why or for what teaching were the Apostles and disciples of Jesus persecuted and martyred?

It’s a kind of shift from the message to the messenger. And when this
kind of shift happens, problems and misunderstanding emerged. If the emphases is in the preacher, racial pride and nationalism come into play.
You cant value the message if you’re too obsessed from
where it comes from.

Not when the Messenger is the Message!

Jesus pray to God; christians
pray to Jesus. Christianity is a religion of Paul(the confusionist) constructed against Jesus.
Jesus was a Muslim and hisreligion was Islam in every sense.

1. Show me your basis for claiming Jesus was a Muslim with reference to His Apostles;
2. On what basis do you tag Paul a confusionist? List at least 5 grounds.

It is just also very painful that the BIBLE OF TODAY HAS BEEN SERIOUSLY DOCTORED. FILLED WITH ERRORS, INCONSISTENCIES AND IT'S SO CONFUSING
OPEN YOUR EYES BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!

Yes but God still preserved His Word and we have it with us!

QTEST007:
So inspiring!
Am confused about religion!
Been a christian all my life, a bible scholar as a matter of fact,I've never had anyone challenged my faith the way this guy just did.

That is the purpose, to confuse you! But I dont expect that from a Bible scholar except you specialised just in the theories but not the experiential knowledge of that wherein you claim to be a scholar!

Laid2001:
The IM in Elohim annd other names of God you see are not plural of Number!
These are plural of Respect as in Classic English when the royals use we for themselves even when they mean only singular.

this is also paramount in YORUBA Language as well. It is clear throughout the Bible that GOD is UNITY and nothing like Triunity anything.

There is only one GOD and Jesus is not God. He never claimed to be GOD. There is no place in the Bible where Jesus categorically stateted that he is God almighty or that he Jesus should be worshiped.

Rather Jesus stated in many place that God in Heaven (He is on Earth then) is One. To make it clearer to people who may be confused, He said my Father in Heaven is greater than I. "why callest me Good,There is no one GOOD except GOD". Jesus said so as well.

But who ever God has guided, non can misguide him and whoever have been left astray by God, due to his/her own foolishness, non can guide such a person.

Mat God guide us all aright.

Pls, the Respect/Royal plural was NEVER used in the Bible.The pronouns were always used as a representation of the realities.

Tpeters:
It's such pity Wat d Vatican nd Catholic has given d world(Trinity)... Doctrine from d pit of hell
Study d scriptures well pple

Come out of dem...

The Lord our God is ONE.......

Pls read this:
https://www.nairaland.com/2937501/1-john-5-7-real

Catholicism did NOT give us the Trinity.

ifenes:
There is no trinity. It was a lie cooked up by the Vatican.
What happens next is absolute Sacriledge, the Spanish Inquisition was created, anyone who denied the Church and Jesus Christ was to be put to death, so free will was under attack again. Many men , women and children we burned at the stake, many mavericks , many spiritual Healers, many midwives, many scholars, many scientists, many great thinkers,for not accepting trinity and Jesus as their savior. I don't understand how this topic reached front page!

Now the "Waldensian," or "Vaudois" Bibles stretch from about 157 to the 1400s AD. The fact is, according to John Calvin's successor Theodore Beza, that the Vaudois received the Scriptures from missionaries of Antioch of Syria in the 120s AD and finished translating it into their Latin language by 157 AD. This Bible was passed down from generation, until the Reformation of the 1500s, when the Protestants translated the Vaudois Bible into French, Italian,

Wither your claim:

When the Bible was created in 325AD Constantine had 1700 Scholars help him create the Bible. Once the Bible was created 1400 Scholars violently rebelled the creation of this Book. Emporer Constantine had the 1400 Scholars Executed, the last 300 remaining Scholars agreed under the fear of death to create this book.

facheux:
In 1 John 5:7 (King James Version) we find:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. (John 5:7)"

this verse is the closest approximation to what the Church calls the holy trinity. this cornerstone of the Christian faith has been scrapped from the RSV by thirty two Christian scholars of the highest eminence backed by fifty cooperating Christian denominations,
according to the "most ancient manuscripts."

However, we find that the noble Qur'an did not need to wait for 2000 years for these Christians to discover this fact. Indeed God revealed it to us fully fourteen hundred years ago:

"O people of the book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, and his Word, which he bestowed upon Mary, and a spirit preceding from him so believe in Allah and his messengers. Say not "Three" desist It will be better for you for Allah is one God Glory be to him Far exalted is he above having a son. To him belong all things in the heavens and the earth. And enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs. (The Noble Quran, 4:171)"

John 3:16(KJV)

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life..(John 3:16)"

This verses is a cornerstone of Christian preaching the world over. Even at american football matches you will find people in the stands holding up massive signs declairing:

"JOHN 3:16"

this fabrication "begotten" has now been unceremoniously removed from the Bible by these most eminent of Bible revisers. However, once again, humanity did not have to wait 2000 years for this revelation. In Maryam(19):88-98 of the noble Qur'an we read:

"And they say 'Allah Most Compassionate has begotten a son!'. Indeed you have put forth a thing most monstrous! The skies are ready to burst (at such a claim), and the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin. That they should ascribe a son to the Most Compassionate. But it is not befitting [the majesty of] the Most Compassionate that He should beget a son. Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to the Most Compassionate as a servant. He has taken account of all of them and has numbered them all exactly. And every one of them will come to him singly on the day of judgment. On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will Allah most gracious bestow love. Verily, We have made this [Qur'an] easy in your tongue [O Muhammad] that you might deliver glad tidings to those who seek refuge [in Allah] and warn with it a people who are contentious. And how many a generation before them have we destroyed! Can you find a single one of them or hear from them so much as a whisper?"

obtain a copy of the New Revised Standard Version and to compare it to the King James Version. Specifically, notice that the following 17 verses have been omitted outright in the newer and more faithful translations:

Matt. 17:21; 18:11; 23:14; Mk. 7:16; 9:44; 9:46; 11:26; 15:28; 17:36; 23:17; Jn. 5:4; Acts 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29; Rom. 16:24; and 1 John 5:7.

Further, in the NRSV Mark 16:9-20 and John 7:53 - 8:11 are also marked as highly questionable since they do not appear in the most ancient copies of the Bible. This Bible also questions four other verses with footnotes-- Matt. 12:47; 21:44; Lk. 22:43; 22:44. This makes a total of 45 entire verses which are removed entirely or seriously questioned. In addition there are 147 other verses with significant portions missing (eg. Rev 1:11 etc.).

Prior to 1952 all versions of the Bible made mention of one of the most miraculous events associated with the prophet Jesus peace be upon him, that of his ascension into heaven. This great event is mentioned in only two places in the NT. They are:

"So then the lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God (Mark 16:19)"

and once again in Luke:

"While he blessed them, he parted from them, and was carried up into heaven. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. (Luke 24:51-52)"

In the 1952 RSV Mark 16 ends at verse 8 and the rest is relegated in small print to a footnote Similarly, in the commentary on the verses of Luke 24, we are told in the footnotes of the NRSV Bible "Other ancient authorities lack "and was carried up into heaven'" and "Other ancient authorities lack 'and worshipped him'". Thus, we see that the verse of Luke in its original form only said:

"While he blessed them, he parted from them. And they returned to Jerusalem with great joy."

It took centuries of "inspired correction" to give us Luke 24:51-52 in their current form.

As another example, in Luke 24:1-7 we read:

"Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulcher, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulcher. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. (Luke 24:1-7)"

All these have nothing to do with the Bible handed down around 120 AD that was preserved by the custodians at the cost of their lives to which the AKJV agrees.

For example:

Question: Is it true that 1 John 5:7 is not in any Greek manuscript before the 1600s? If it is true, why is it in the King James Bible?

Authors David W. Daniels and Jack McElroy answer questions critics ask about the King James Bible.
Answer: 1 John 5:7 belongs in the King James Bible and was preserved by faithful Christians. But the passage was removed from many Greek manuscripts, because of the problems it seemed to cause.

It is true that there is a small number of Scriptures that are not the same between the King James Bible and the so-called "Majority" Greek text. There are a number of reasons for this:

The so-called "Majority" text was not really based on the majority of texts, but rather a relatively small number of manuscripts. The last person to try to find the differences between the majority of Greek manuscripts, Dr. Von Soden, did not collate more than 400 of the more than 5,000 Greek texts. In other words, what is commonly called the "Majority" Greek text is not a collation of the majority of manuscripts at all.
The "Majority" Greek text is also the main Greek text used by the Eastern Orthodox religion. They had a vested interest in changing (or deleting) some texts. More on this in a moment.
1 John itself is not in a large number of extant Greek manuscripts.
So why then is 1 John 5:7 in the King James Bible, but not in many of the existing Greek manuscripts? To understand the answer, we must look at the history of what happened shortly after the Bible was written.

Now the "Waldensian," or "Vaudois" Bibles stretch from about 157 to the 1400s AD. The fact is, according to John Calvin's successor Theodore Beza, that the Vaudois received the Scriptures from missionaries of Antioch of Syria in the 120s AD and finished translating it into their Latin language by 157 AD. This Bible was passed down from generation, until the Reformation of the 1500s, when the Protestants translated the Vaudois Bible into French, Italian, etc. This Bible carries heavy weight when finding out what God really said. John Wesley and Jonathan Edwards believed, as most of the Reformers, that the Vaudois were the descendants of the true Christians, and that they preserved the Christian faith for the Bible-believing Christians today.

Who Has the Most to Gain? Who Has the Most to Lose?

The evidence of history shows us that the Roman Catholic religion was relentless in its effort to destroy the Vaudois and their Bible. It took them until the 1650s to finish their hateful attacks. But the Vaudois were successful in preserving God's words to the days of the Reformation.

Now we have to ask ourselves a question: Who had the most to gain by adding to or taking away from the Bible? Did the Vaudois, who were being killed for having their Bibles, have anything to gain by adding to or taking from the words of God? Compromise is what the Roman religion wanted! Had the Vaudois just followed the popes, their lives would have been much easier. But they counted the cost. This was not politics; it was their life and soul. They above all people would not want to change a single letter of the words they received from Antioch of Syria. And they paid for this with their lives.

The Reformation itself owes a lot to these Christians in the French Alps. [b]They not only preserved the Scriptures, but they show to what lengths God would go to keep his promise (Psalm 12:6-7).

And that's only part of the story about the preservation of God's words.


http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/1john57.asp

DeathStroke007:
I have just did a comprehensive research and report with proofs....



IF YOU STILL DON'T BELIEVE BIBLICAL MARY WAS 12...that's your own mug of tea

Op, basing your 'research' on questionable sources is a faulty practice. Show us ONE Bible person that married a 12 year old or a child.


Abraham seniored Sarah by approx. 10 years, Jacob, Isaac, David etc married women not kids.

The angel told Mary she was favoured among WOMEN not girls! Luke 1:28

How will a twelve year old be cousin to an old woman? when that old woman is old enough to be her grandma?

We thank God.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Revelations 19:13,14

Op, your source over laboured itself on just one verse and panel beated it beyond recognition! In so doing, a basic principle of Bible study was broken thus rendering your efforts (or the author's) void ab initio! Here, The Word is clearly shown as a Real Person, not some grand design!

In case you will claim this is a metaphor, the prophesy being fulfilled here dates back to the OT:

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zechariah 14:5

Philadelphia:
After quoting the tenth commandment of the decalogue in Romans 7:7, Paul wrote these words, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good” (verse 12). Then he continued in verse 14, “For we know that the law is spiritual ...”

Take note of the "sabbath days" and not (Sabbath day). One with a big "S" and singular for day while the other the opposite. The one you mentioned is the one given by Moses eg, sabbath of blowing trumpets (Lev 23:24), sabbath of meats (where you mentioned) (Lev 23:16). These sabbaths were the ceremonial laws Paul referred to because they are the ones nailed to the cross, not the weekly Sabbath Day.

Did Jesus ever state observance of weekly sabbath as a prerequisite for salvation?

Do you realize that Circumcision occupied a similar pedestal and when some tried to weave it as a prerequisite for salvation Paul and others withstood and resisted them and such were even identified as false teachers!

Do you find Paul,Peter, James, John etc exhorting the brethren to also observe the sabbath as a proof of their new life in Christ? If there is ONE pls quote it here!

If none, why would they leave it out?

What did Jesus mean when HE said the sabbath was made for man?

Understand that your implication that no one should judge you.... or that the sabbath was nailed to the cross implies that the 10 commandments was nailed to the cross; which further implies that we can now sin freely.

My implication? But I did not write Colossians? Paul did ! And that by Inspiration.

I ascertain this because it is only the 10 commandments (moral law) that says we should not kill, not commit adultery, remember the Sabbath day and not the other one (ceremonial law). But you saying the Sabbath day is not effective (of the 10 commandments) means there is a bias. You hold stealing as a sin, dishonouring parents, killing, adultery as sins but not the 4th commandments. Then something shows that it is to proper.

Just as we did not get saved by keeping the 10 commandments but when we get saved, the righteousness it reveals is fulfilled practically in us as we walk in the Spirit. Can you identify how the command on sabbath is fulfilled? Why is it that when Paul identified the works of the flesh, list of sins, we see acts that contradict the various moral commandments but which sin/work of the flesh contradicts the sabbath observance?

Paul, by the Spirit's inspiration, wrote that

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS IN HEAVEN
Perhaps we should ask right at this point, what is the significance of the tables of God’s law being placed inside the ark of the covenant?Remember that this spot was the most holy on the earth because it represented God’s throne. God had said, “there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the cherubims” (Exodus 25:22). Below that shekinah glory, symbolizing the presence of God, lay that holy law by which sin was to be defined. And there, as we know from the Scriptures, Jesus, our High Priest, was to plead His blood for sinners.

But in the New testament, we are not just the Ark, we are the Temple! What Then?

Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

I hope you know that Sabbath = Rest ?

Rest accessed and synonymous to Faith = Without believing, we have no access to the Grace of God; if we entered in but draw back from faith, we are cut off from the Vine! This is the Substance!

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ
Colossians 3:16,17

Hello bro, abundant life is received now, not after death. Stay blessed.

KingEbukasBlog:
The bible didnt specifically say which member of the God-head visited Abraham . It could be either of the three

But Micah 5:2 clearly speaks of Him Whose going forth has being of old, as the One to come as the Messiah. Abraham saw Him, Isaiah saw Him, Joshua saw Him, David saw Him, even Nebuchadnezzar saw Him.

Amberon:
really? I thought they were all angels.. I need to be more conversant with my bible.

Yes, it was Christ and two angels, just like He appeared to Joshua as the Captain of the Host in Joshua 5. That is why Micah 5:2 says His going forth has been from everlasting.

LIBERTY1980:
who was those three men that vistied Abraham in genesis 18:1-33"
What do you understand by that chapter and verses in the bible,
Your input can be of help.

Two of them were angels who were later sent to execute judgement on Sodom, the Third was The Pre-Incarnate Christ before Whom Abraham made intercession.

MrPresident1:
So have the Israelites risen from the dead?

Ezekiel's context will be better appreciated when you consider vs 11

Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Ezekiel 36:11
The passage was referring to restoration from the point of no hope!

analice107:
Brother Scholar. You are a Saint, believe me. You patiently will stay around answering to teenagers who in all their lives, have not read their own Koran.
If Rilwayne, lexiconkabir or some other grown up, wants us to talk, we can consider, not this kid.
This op doesn't deserve your time at all.
I say, ignore him.

I so love your person, really.

Glory be to God, thanks for the advice.

MrPresident1:
Ezekiel 37 answers your question.

Ezekiel 37 was addressing the Israelites, 1 Thessalonians was written to the Gentile believers!

MrPresident1:
Ezekiel 37:12-14
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

So who are those people:

Scholar8200:
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:16
Who are those?