₦airaland Forum

italo:
The focus is on intercession of Mary.

NO! This is the topic: Why Catholics Pray Through Mary.

You still haven't shown me where the Bible said since Jesus is our advocate with the Father, then no one in heaven can pray to him or the Father, only people on earth can. Which verse says so?

Alright show me where people on earth are enjoined to recognise other intercessors in Heaven other than Christ! Afterall, I have pointed out Who is the Intercessor. Now you prove your position with two references too. What? Not even did Joshua beseech Moses to intercede on his behalf! What then?!

To my brother, or my priest, or to Mary and Saints, or to The Father and/or the Son and/or the Holy Spirit.

The Catholic Church is one big family that death cannot divide.

The scenario is not intercession in heaven, it is intercession of Mary.

So where is Mary now?

And you still can't give me a reason why your filthy self can pray for your loved ones but Jesus' mother cannot pray for her loved ones.

Who are her 'loved ones'? substantiate your answer with at least three passages from the NT. (Bible talks of Abraham being the father of those that believe and I can substantiate that with the same no from the NT, yet neither Christ nor the disciples at any time made supplication to him!)

The command/promise to ask, seek and knock is for those on earth not in Heaven. And the passage quoted above tells us Who is the Advocate/Mediator/Intercessor in Heaven. Only One Person could say this:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that He may remain with you forever

Your logic further suggests that they still hold Bible study in Heaven!

Jusmudi:
Jesus christ who is equal 2 God hv d holy spirit in him, yet d mother played a role 4 him

What role? Specify.

Jusmudi:
Tank u so much broda for responding, am api especially people who want 2 learn.
The story of abraham nd d rich man( heaven nd hell)

The events occurred after they were dead. Else why did lazarus not pray to Father Abraham to help beg God change his condition on earth?

Remember also dt Jesus gave the John 2 Mary as mother and son, are u telling me that John dn't hv a physical mother?

Being a widow, Mary losing her first son needed a helper and that was what Jesus provided for her through John.

Jesus knowing fully well dt John needs mary 2[b] encourage him[/b] nd play a part in his life if John was 2 succeed. That is 2 say all individual Jesus is giving Mary 2 all as DIA mother so she can play same role she played 4 him

This is erroneous!!! Jesus sent the Holy Spirit (Comforter) to do the highlighted! Play which role So is John at any time described as all individuals?
Apart from Acts 1 were Mary is seen joining others to tarry for the Holy Spirit's baptism, why the deafening silence about her in the Epistles?

italo:
1. You said there is only one intercessor. Why are you interceding to the intercessor for your loved ones?

I did not say so, the Bible does. Yes Jesus is the Intercessor in Heaven! (The focus of this thread is those who intercede to Mary [not on earth] who is not once mentioned as the intercessor in Heaven!) Or is she on earth now? I've never heard any one praying to Jesus to pray for them; they pray to the Father in the Name of Jesus!
We ask the Father through Jesus and In His Name! So,we intercede before the Father having gained access to His Presence through Jesus and In His Name. We Ask the Father(not Jesus). Jesus Himself spoke about we asking the Father In His Name!!!

2. You still can't tell me why you can pray for your loved ones and Jesus' mother, Mary, can't.

The scenario of the thread is intercession in Heaven, before the Throne of God. Let me ask, if you pray for your loved one, who do you pray to?

italo:
You should be asking yourself that question. Why are you interceding to the intercessor for your loved ones when you pray for them? Why are you being a priest pleading with the high priest for them? Why are you acting as another advocate for them? Is it absurd or not?

Once again, we are referring to a Heavenly scenario not the earth! Read this:
Acts12:5
5 Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.

They prayed unto the Father having gained access through the Lord Jesus

Ephesians 2: 15
Ephesians 2:18
for through him (Jesus Christ) we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

I asked that if you can pray for your loved ones, why can't Jesus' mother pray for her loved ones.

You couldn't answer.

Again, we are referring to an Heavenly setting! What? Is this how you pray to people on earth to pray for you:

We fly to your patronage,
O holy Mother of God;
despise not our petitions in our necessities,
but deliver us always from all dangers,
O glorious and blessed Virgin.
(Interestingly this is not even an intercession but a supplication!!!.)

Jusmudi:
Bros y do u pray at all knowing fully well dt ur father in heaven knows all ur need?

because Jesus said to do so Matthew 7:11
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

We dn't need any 1 to intercede 4 us bt why call on mary at d wedding feast of cana wen d wine got finished?

They did not call on Mary! By the way, apart from that scene which does not even portray what you wish it did, how many people sought to see Jesus because they needed a miracle etc and had to enlist Mary's attention? Read this and discern what it reveals:
Mark 3:31-35
31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Why did Jesus on the cross ask d mother 2 be the mother of all(Apostles?

I assume you made a mistake here. Else, this is an illustration of how the Word is twisted to back up your tradition!
Consider:

John 19:26,27

26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
There is nothing here to remotely suggest what you have posited!

italo:
When we ask Mary's intercession, our access is still Jesus Christ.

But why ask somebody to intercede to the Intercessor?!It's like saying we need a priest to plead with the High Priest to do the work for which He was ordained!!!!
Hebrews 4:14-16

14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The High Priest ordained by God is sufficient, we need not add to the Word. Do you hire two lawyers/advocates when going to court?! One to beg the other to do the work for which he was engaged by you? Does this not sound absurd?!

We are not asking her to bypass Jesus Christ. We are asking her to beseech Jesus Christ to grant us access to the Father...

Beseech Jesus Christ? Did He change after His ascension? Did He not say:

John 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 16:23,24,27

23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
27 for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God

Besides, the quote above in Hebrews tells us to come boldly to our Father's Throne! We are not hapless/ helpless subjects but sons (for those who are saved) and joint-heirs with Christ!

If you, who are filthy, can do so, why can't Jesus' mother do so for her loved ones?

The only person who was remotely called mother of the women that believe was Sarah (1 Peter 3:6) Besides, we dont find the apostles enlisting the intercession of any of the cloud of witnesses:
Acts12:5
5 Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.

italo:
So when you pray for your loved ones, you taking Jesus' place?

Our focus on this thread is intercession done in Heaven. Jesus Christ Is Our High Priest Before The Father and our access to the Father is by Him and Him alone!

Ephesians 2:18
for through him (Jesus Christ) we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Bible tells us Who it is that does the intercession in Heaven
Hebrews 7:25
... He ever lives to make intercession for them (those who come to God by Him)


1 John 2:1 says
...We have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ... (not Mary)

It's not possible to have mary doing what Jesus is clearly portrayed as doing He (not Mary) being our High Priest

witnezHD:
the funny part now is the they add new chapters every year

Interesting! Can you specify at least five of such?

menesheh:
Spotting the errors inside the bible or other external interpretations?

Errors in interpretation.

ParrishNorwood:
John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The statement made by God in Genesis 3:22 shows that Adam was made but there was a certain allowance made for his freewill, in other words he was to choose how he will be for all eternity, more like a period of decision (I dont know how long this was to last). Not that death was already existent, but in that state, Adam was to choose the life he wanted and was warned of the outcome if he went for the forbidden tree
Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

If Adam and Eve had taken from the tree mentioned, there will be no need for redemption again hence it was an act out of love that Adam was sent out of the garden. This tells us that there was an aspect that God did not want to force on Adam (according to His Principle) when He created him.

Now those who get to Heaven are those who (thanks to the Redemption in Christ) made a choice and received God's grace while on earth (there own time of decision). At death, we pass over to the other side where death has no power and (by God's arrangement) we live forever in the state we chose during our time of decision and in the place where our decision leads to.

As a corollary, those who die in Christ being free from sin (having made that as a choice while on earth) will forever live with Him in that state, as a consequence of their decision vice versa.

Any diligent student will spot these errors. Problem is people get enamoured by the man that they excuse his message and its contradictions even though it stares them in the face.

I guess you did not see the highlighted:

Shall is used to express future not present tense. Hence when He said He dwells with (not within like you erroneously stated) you(present tense); shall be in you (future tense).
John 14:17
17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth [size=14pt]with you[/size], and shall be in you.

sportsmaster:
lol.what of those pastors that twist the bible interpretation around to deceive followers,dint they pick their verses from the bible?,how we explain the bible to others means alot,shows a sign of our diligence to the Word..

what if you never explained those things correctly,dont you know some of us will be left in the DARK.
The role of every Christian is not only to preach but to teach others.
Matt28.

All Glory Be To God.

ParrishNorwood:
Yes he is, and if you follow his truth, he'd lead you to Muhammad Ahmad, the way and the truth, no one cometh unto God except through him.

Jesus said no man comes to the Father (not Mohammed) but by Him. He is the Way to The Father, not another man. Why change something so clear to suit your belief?

So when he made the statement, was the comforter on earth or was he a later development. Think carefully before you answer,

Let Jesus answer you:
John 14:17
17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

They knew Him and were acquainted with Him but He was not yet indwelling them at that time! The Promise of Jesus Christ was that the Spirit will be sent in pursuance of God's promise in line with the New Covenant as made in Ezekiel:

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

ParrishNorwood:
Yes he is, and if you follow his truth, he'd lead you to Muhammad Ahmad, the way and the truth, no one cometh unto God except through him.

Jesus said no man comes to the Father (not Mohammed) but by Him. He is the Way to The Father, not another man. Why change something so clear to suit your belief?

So when he made the statement, was the comforter on earth or was he a later development. Think carefully before you answer,

Let Jesus answer you:
John 14:17
17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

They knew Him and were acquainted with Him but He was not yet indwelling them at that time!

sportsmaster:
liar,you won deny,dont you know myself and others have learnt and blessed by some of your posts.
I have seen how you rightly divide and explain the scriptures.so no come deny for here.

Anything that blessed you came from the Spirit (definitely not me!.). the Bible clearly says:
1 Corinthians 8:2
And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

ParrishNorwood:
No contradiction here, Naik didn't claim Muhammad is the ghost or Holy Ghost, he says Muhammad is the comforter, please read the write up again. He is the Way and truth truth, no one cometh unto God, except through him.

Jesus Christ IS the Way:

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

But how about this:

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

To start with, I am still a learner, one far out in the peripheries of the knowledge of the Word hence may I be excused from the list of elites.

Secondly, have you heard of Apologetics?

There is a controversy here! I have conversed with a muslim on NL who said the Holy Spirit was angel Gabriel (his premise was that angels are spirits and they are holy {I should have asked how many Holy Spirit(s) there are if we would follow that line of reasoning}!!!; now there are also others who say the Holy Spirit/Comforter is Mohammed!

Excellent literary re-enactment!

No. The Law has been fulfilled hence we are no longer under the law but under grace by which the righteous demands get fulfilled through us. Now since we were delivered by grace, the command we have is to seek to bring others into that grace by which they will also be delivered from the urge/bondage of these abominations.

While the act like others so described, are still abominable, a Christian living in the dispensation of grace knows his responsibility is to preach the gospel so that those who believe, like the adulteress, can go and sin no more being delivered from the urge to persist in their abomination. (Afterall he was once like that before he was delivered and made clean!.)

Christians are believers in, and followers of Christ whose Example they follow.

It's part of the Gospel to warn those who dont repent that judgement/condemnation is coming and the timing of that is in God's hands.

If the crusade in Aba was cancelled, it is in keeping with the practice of Jesus Christ:

Luke 9:52, 53,56

52 and sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
56 ... And they went to another village.

It is not by force.

If it was not cancelled, then it must have been affirmed that the threat was not representing the view of the citizens but a vocal few.

bingbagbo:
JESUS has long told us HE IS INDEED GOD, the father JOHN 14:5-10

read!!!

You also read :

John 14:16

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

bingbagbo:
are u sure you believe in the bible??

see/...2 Peter 1:1 ►

Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

JESUS IS OUR GOD AND SAVIOUR, which other GOD are talking about? see Deut 6:4

read also colossians 1:16

Was that quote from Shakespeare's Macbeth?

Okay 2 Peter 1:17
17 For[size=13pt] he received from God the Father honour and glory,[/size] when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

malvisguy212:
God bless you scholar.

Kolajamesjnr. There is a big different between revelation and God pronouncing judgment.

Amen, thank you!

bingbagbo:
Colossians 1:17

He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.


who is THIS MIGHTY BEING??

It speaks of Our Lord Jesus Christ of Whom this was written:

Colossians 1:3
3 We give thanks to[size=13pt] God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,[/size] praying always for you

bingbagbo:
Colossians 3:17 ►

And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.


baptism is done only in the single name of the LORD JESUS

Have you undergone that baptism?

Or u were baptized in the father son and holy spirit? These are no names; beware!!!

Reconcile the highlighted.

@ Op, let's come back home; would you consider yourself a genius?

kolajamesjnr:
And same bible says god never go back on is word
Isaiah 5:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

A promise/covenant is not the same as a warning of impending judgement declared with the expectation that the hearer will amend his ways and avert it.