₦airaland Forum

Demmzy15:
When we look critically into why Hagar was sent away, we find a lot of inconsistencies. In fact the Bible clearly shows that Hagar was sent away even before Isaac was born!

Kindly Prove this allegation from the Bible

Demmzy15:
Yes! Covenant established and fulfilled!

by Abraham to whom the command came!

The verse you quoted shows nothing as such. We Muslims believe in Isaac and in fact you're not a complete Muslim if you don't believe in Isaac. Most Prophets were from the progeny of Isaac with one from Ishmael. The covenant was fulfilled with the seed of Abraham which is Ishmael(FIRSTBORN).

Pls this firstborn criteria was never mentioned.Let's leave it out. Ishmael was blessed just because he was also from Abraham but God made it clear who he will establish his covenant with.

Maybe God mentioned Ishmael no one knows because of how men have tampered with the Bible, Jews in Arabia said the truth about the covenant. An example is when God said "sacrifice thy only son Isaac" do you honestly think we're fools. Isaac was never the only son of Abraham, but Ishmael. This is another deliberate interpolation by the scribes and don't know where more still exist. Even this issue at ground, I can't completely win this argument because surely there are still more interpolation which would suite you all.

When did they tamper with the Bible? The Torah was in existence more than 10 centuries before Mohammed came then at what point was it tampered with? and to what purpose since the Torah was in existence and in use all along?

Other books of the Bible eg Hebrews written around 63 AD (more than 4 centuries before Mohammed came) clearly spells out who was to be sacrificed and the reason, how come and in what sense was it tampered with?

Some speak of jealousy but were they envisaging Mohammed's coming (5 centuries earlier!!!) and were jealous?!

They were expecting the Messiah and that was their hope what then?!

As to the Jews in Arabia, perhaps if you appreciate what was said about the Jews when they rejected the Messiah's first coming you will realise that their words should not be brought up here!

Consider this timeline:

Genesis 21: Isaac was born, Ishmael was 13+ years old. After Isaac was born Ishmael was sent away. Sarah was 90.

Genesis 22: Abraham is tested after the events in chapter 21.

Genesis 23: Sarah dies at 127 years

Meaning the events in the 3 chapters happened within (127-90) 37 years when Isaac being the only one with his father would have grown and year after year will be reckoned as Abraham's only son in the sense of the being only one left with him.

Demmzy15:
God promises to establish his covenant with all of Abraham's "seed" without exception:

"And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.."
Genesis 17:7-8.

If you consider the context above, God was referring to descendant - Israelites that came from Isaac- they were the ones that God reiterated this promise to:

Exodus 6:7,8
and I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the Lord.

God now informs Abraham that his covenant shall be given through circumcision, so Abraham immediately circumcises himself and Ishmael, the father of the Arabs (Genesis 17:23), thus establishing God's covenant with Ishmael

Abraham was asked to circumcise himself and all the males in his house but GOD specifically named who, of Abraham's sons, HE would continue/perpetuate the covenant with:
Genesis 17:10-12,19
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

As per the highlighted, the covenant was primarily between God and Abraham and after Abraham,Abraham's seed. Verse 19 specifies which seed it was. It will be wrong to say everybody circumcised became a party to the covenant. At that time, servants and their kids were viewed as the properties of their masters.

. I gave you an example of someone who says: "I love my parents" and then a few days later says "I love my mother." Does this mean that he does not love his father? After Ishmael fulfilled the covenant when Isaac wasn't even born, God then told him to fulfill it also with Isaac since he's a seed too!

Abraham, the primary focus of the covenant, circumcised himself and all the males under him. You cant say Ishmael fulfilled the covenant since Abraham was alive! Did the other slaves also fulfil the covenant because they were circumcised? Abraham was the one to whom the command came and he fulfilled it by circumcising all the males according to the command.

muafrika:
@bolded



You really believe those people were Godly?

Not all. But those who were pious then were not mere 'infirmity'-excusing, sin-defending, praise-singing, noise-making but ignorant religious folks; they stood out in seeking for, possessing and enjoining others to a life of holiness. In fact those were times when police officers and judges commented on some communities being crime-free thus making them appear redundant, club houses and bars closing down due to lack of customers (most of which had been saved by faith) etc

A good sample you find on NL where folks who appear religious labour to prove that sex before marriage is not wrong! Or grace allows us to live anyhow' Jesus is all God sees!? (heresy redefined!) In such a case sin flourishes! Any wonder that vices increase?

muafrika:
You really believe those people were Godly?

Who are those?

lolaredvelvet:
Being religious is different from being righteous. The average Nigerian church is nothing but a business enterprise deceiving the gullible. It baffles me how many Christians don't even read their bibles in their spare time.. how would their corrupt minds be renewed?

A personal relationship with Christ is truly what transforms an individual.. which inevitably would transform a nation as a whole.

Exactly!

menesheh:
Do you no whassu doing, you are answering a question with the same theme of the question. The op was asking "Nigeria is one of the religious countries of the world but nothing moves"

Your quotations and excuses about sin is an obsolete, why not ask yourself, those countries on the developed and progressive list, are there no sin within their abode.

Is just incoherent trying to be delusional by offering ideas that don't rhyme with reality.

ok

You are very correct Op. Good observation!

However, Righteousness (not religion) exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people (Proverbs 14:34)'

If you compare the history of the West, you will see that theirs was more of a faith that obtained peace with God and holiness. (Credit for this goes to Methodism and its army of circuit riders not forgetting the spiritual and moral impact of the First and Second Great Awakenings). The by-product of this is the greatness they experienced(though they are loosing ground for obvious reasons now).

But at present, people in this continent addict themselves to the forms and motions (religion) with eyes mostly on material and financial benefits and excuse sin (having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof 2Timothy 3:5) and the result (as Proverbs 14:34 shows) is abasement and reproaches.

Ever wondered why deliverance takes the main seat today? People hold on to and excuse their sins, the same sins by which they became, and remain a legal captive! No wonder they will need deliverance all the time!

Indeed.

DravenCreighton:
Had to do what? Please, if he abandoned them as well don't even dig a larger hole for yourself,

Hole? Can you prove that the contrary happened? What then would you say to Isaac's sending Jacob away where he remained for twenty years? (In fact Rebecca was dead by the time he came back!.)

DravenCreighton:
Lol! Why would the bible refer to her as a mistress after that? Contradictions!mthats something thats common with the bible.

So because she was a bond woman, it was okay for Abraham to send her and the child gave to him through her away? I thought he even married this bond woman?


And the verse you quoted speaks of a first wife, a wife in someone's youth, not all wives. That's if I'm to accept everything in the bible.

Going by this premise you quoted:
It must not be forgotten that female slaves constituted a part of the private patrimony or possessions of a wife, and that she had a right, according to the usages of those times, to dispose of them as she pleased, the husband having no authority in the case.

I may obtain children by her.
The slave being the absolute property of the mistress, not only her person, but the fruits of her labour, with all her children, were her owner's property also.
(Then Sarah's decision to send them away after she had her own son is upheld thereby!.)
I believe the conclusion is perfectly logical!

DravenCreighton:
No, but his biological father did, atleast according to christians.

Just like the biological father (Abraham) of Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah had to do when he was still alive. (find that in Genesis 25:1-4).

Demmzy15:
Ishmael included!

But contradicting Genesis 17:21
But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Else would you make a case for Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah? They were Abraham's seed too and they must have been circumcised! God is not the author of confusion!

Genesis 15:4 speaks of a heir- single

Genesis 15: 13 gives a prophecy of what will be experienced by the heir's descendants. No such happened to Ishmael's descendants!Why? he was not the reference!!!

DravenCreighton:
And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. Genesis 16

I could simply end here, since the verse itself says Abraham married Hagar! But I will go further, since you will still not be satisfied with this and come up with bogus interpretations. Therefore I shall quote a Biblical scholar, and Bible commentary on this very verse.



The Adam Clarke Commentary

Verse 1. She had a handmaid, an Egyptian
As Hagar was an Egyptian, St. Chrysostom's conjecture is very probable. that she was one of those female slaves which Pharaoh gave to Abram when he sojourned in Egypt; see Genesis 12:16. Her name hagar signifies a stranger or sojourner, and it is likely she got this name in the family of Abram, as the word is pure Hebrew.

Verse 2. Go in unto my maid.
It must not be forgotten that female slaves constituted a part of the private patrimony or possessions of a wife, and that she had a right, according to the usages of those times, to dispose of them as she pleased, the husband having no authority in the case.

I may obtain children by her.
The slave being the absolute property of the mistress, not only her person, but the fruits of her labour, with all her children, were her owner's property also.

The children, therefore, which were born of the slave, were considered as the children of the mistress. It was on this ground that Sarai gave her slave to Abram; and we find, what must necessarily be the consequence in all cases of polygamy, that strifes and contentions took place.

Verse 3. And Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar-and gave her to her husband-to be his wife.
There are instances of Hindoo women, when barren, consenting to their husbands marrying a second wife for the sake of children; and second marriages on this account, without consent, are very common.-Ward

Like I said, someone is trying to conceal something,

The highlighted (1st) alone already shows that Hagar was Sarah's bondwoman hence there's nothing strange if she was sent away.

Yes, second marriages were indeed common but the highlighted superseded that privilege; meaning the mistress could end such union! Else why did every one including Hagar refer to herself as a maid even after Ishmael was born?

Genesis 16:6,9

6 But Abram said to Sarai, See here, your maid is in your hands and power; do as you please with her. And when Sarai dealt severely with her, humbling and afflicting her, she [Hagar] fled from her.
7 But [a]the Angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness on the road to Shur.
8 And He said, Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where did you come from, and where are you intending to go? And she said, I am running away from my mistress Sarai.
9 The Angel of the Lord said to her, Go back to your mistress and [humbly] submit to her control.

Meanwhile, my reference to marital covenant was as it concerns the first and legal wife according to God's purpose from the beginning:

Malachi 2:14
14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

Demmzy15:
The time Ishmael was circumcised, Isaac was not born. Ishmael is older than Isaac with 13years. So Ishmael is an offspring of Abraham, the covenant was fulfilled with him because he's the FIRSTBORN.

If you appreciate God's stance towards the marital covenant, you will understand why Isaac remained the Child of Promise and Judah was the direct patriarch of the Seed - Jesus Christ - in Whom all the Nations of the World was to be blessed.

God's covenant was with the "seed" of Abraham (pbuh), among whom was Ishmael. Both are the offsprings of Abraham and it applies to their descendants. But Isaac's descendants had more Prophets then Ishmael.

So also was Midian, Jokshan, Medan, Zimran etc all who were offsprings of Abraham and must have been circumcised. The reference through whom the covenant was to be perpetuated therefore had to be specified!

Genesis 17:21 and Genesis 21:21 do not exclude Ishmael from God's covenant as some claim. The example of this is one who says: "I love my parents" and then a few days later says "I love my mother." Does this mean that he does not love his father? Since God had already consecrated his covenant between Abraham and his son Ishmael years before the birth of Isaac, and Abraham had already circumcised Ishmael so that he might receive God's covenant, therefore, it was necessary to reaffirm that Isaac was not left out of this covenant even though it was established after the birth of Ishmael but before his own birth.

Still you appear to be denying/ignoring the express declaration in Genesis 17:21
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Demmzy15:
The time Ishmael was circumcised, Isaac was not born. Ishmael is older than Isaac with 13years. So Ishmael is an offspring of Abraham, the covenant was fulfilled with him because he's the FIRSTBORN.

If you appreciate God's stance towards the marital covenant, you will understand why Isaac remained the Child of Promise and Judah was the direct patriarch of the Seed - Jesus Christ - in Whom all the Nations of the World was to be blessed.

God's covenant was with the "seed" of Abraham (pbuh), among whom was Ishmael. Both are the offsprings of Abraham and it applies to their descendants. But Isaac's descendants had more Prophets then Ishmael.

So also was Midian, Jokshan, Medan, Zimran etc all who were offsprings of Abraham. The reference through whom the covenant was to be perpetuated therefore had to be specified!

Genesis 17:21 and Genesis 21:21 do not exclude Ishmael from God's covenant as some claim. The example of this is one who says: "I love my parents" and then a few days later says "I love my mother." Does this mean that he does not love his father? Since God had already consecrated his covenant between Abraham and his son Ishmael years before the birth of Isaac, and Abraham had already circumcised Ishmael so that he might receive God's covenant, therefore, it was necessary to reaffirm that Isaac was not left out of this covenant even though it was established after the birth of Ishmael but before his own birth.

Still you appear to be denying the express declaration in Genesis 17:21
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

DravenCreighton:
No mate, you're trying to merge the bible into the Quran here, we were speaking of the version of the story in the Quran, not the bible. You believe Isaac is the only child of promise. Think, why would God bless Abraham with Ishmael just to utterly abandon him? What sort of father even in the modern world does this?

Ishmael was not the child born by promise. God did not utterly abandon Ishmael; he was blessed thus:
Genesis 17:20,21
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

But the covenant was to be perpetuated through the child of promise.

Demmzy15:
God's covenant was 'circumcision' and this was done to Ishmael and other men in the household of Abraham, many years before Isaac was even born!

"This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you."
Genesis 17:10-11

So Abraham immediately circumcises himself and Ishmael, the father of the Arabs (Genesis 17:23), thus establishing God's covenant with Ishmael.

You should know that this covenant was applied to Isaac but it was fulfilled through Ishmael!

As per the highlighted, Isaac was alive (and also circumcised after birth) so that is not possible. That the slaves were also circumcised does not mean they were the primary party to the covenant; Abraham was. Besides, your assertion contradicts God's declaration:

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Let's use an acid test here; was the passage below fulfilled on Isaac's or Ishmael's descendants? If Isaac's then shall we not safely and logically conclude that Verse 4 also refers to Isaac?

Genesis 15:13,14
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14 and also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

DravenCreighton:
The biblical story of Ishmael and Isaac is one of the most contradictory stories I've ever read in my life, proof that someone is trying to conceal something.

Quran 3:71
Sahih International
O People of the Scripture (JEWS and Christians), why do you confuse the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know [it]?

Quran 8:8
Sahih International
That He should establish the truth and abolish falsehood, even if the criminals disliked it.

I believe it is clear enough! Why would God test Abraham with Ishmael and give all the blessings of Abraham's obedience to Isaac while Ishmael is sent packing (with a blessing not different from the generic declaration on all creatures in Genesis 1 after creation) ?

Especially when God had already known and purposed that Isaac was the child of promise?

Demmzy15:
This why I say the biblical account is very confusing and contradictory.

@emboldened what was the covenant?

Kindly read Genesis 17.

Demmzy15:
Corrected, Eliezer wasn't a son but lived with Abraham. His origin is quite strange, some claim he's the son of Nimrod, some say a son of Abraham's concubine 'Masek', etc so that's out!

According to Islam, most Prophets and Messenger came from Isaac's progeny and only one came from Ishmael which is Prophet Muhammad(sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, I could agree with you partially that most of the promise was fulfilled with Isaac's progeny. But that doesn't mean Ishmael was left out, he was also from the bowel of Abraham through his wife Hagar- we find this from Genesis21:13 "And also of the son of the bondwoman......he is thy seed." In fact the God's covenant with Abraham was fulfilled with him!

Genesis 15:4 could refer to Ishmael also because he's a seed of Abraham!

Can you justify the highlighted with this:
Genesis 17:19-21 spoken when Ishmael was about 13 years of age:

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.


and

Genesis 21:12
12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.


If you can't, we may leave it here.

Demmzy15:
Yep!

This cannot refer to Isaac alone but with Ishmael because they were from his two wives. Eliezer Dam-Mesek was Abraham's son from a concubine not from a wife! Eliezer would have been Abraham's heir if he didn't conceive from Hagar or Sarah.

As regards the highlighted, the word God used was 'heir' not 'heirs'. It will be confusion to say heir and mean two people!!! Besides, Eliezer was not Abraham's kid else what was the purpose of Sarah's action out of exasperation in Genesis 16:1 if there was already one?

Confirmer:
May God forgive you for insinuating that Sarah, and by extension Prophet Abraham, lost patience. Why would they lose patience if they were sure of God's promise since God never fails? It was simply because they have not received the revelation from God about the birth of Isaac. It was after the test that they were promised Isaac.

Kindly answer this:

Genesis 15:4 spoken before the birth of both men referred to who?

4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir

Context:Genesis 15:2,3
2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

Demmzy15:
99. He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me
100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!"
103. So when they had both submitted (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him "O Abraham! ...
105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right. Qur’an 37

Points You Should Consider

. It is well known that Abraham(P) got his first child in his old days (more than 80 years old). By all means, when he was given the news of his first son, Ishmael(P), the news were great and not only good. It seems reasonable to think that the news of having his second son, Isaac(P) would be equal or less because in the first time the surprise factor has certainly increased his happiness.

. More to the point, using the same argument as the opposition, one can safely say that the sacrificed was described as forbearing and steadfast in the Qur'ân and if we search the whole Qur'ân we will find the name of Ishmael(P) associated to patience and steadfastness and not Isaac(P)!

. Indeed verse 21:85 (in red) reads
"And (remember) Ishmael, Idris, and Zulkifl, all (men) of constancy and patience".

The points DravenCreighton mentioned were very clear, lemme try and explain better!

There are two distinct news contained in the verse, the birth of Isaac happens after the supposed sacrifice was to be done(even the Bible shows that). When you go a little further to verse 112-113 of the same Chapter, you'll find the second news. One happened before Isaac was born and the other was the good news of Isaac's birth.

107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of Our believing Servants.
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.

So Qur’an 37: 99-113 shows 2 distinct favours, here is a full recap. The favor with Ishmael(when Isaac wasn't even born) is in red emphasis and that of Isaac is in blue:

[b]9. He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me!
100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!"
103. So when they had both submitted (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him "O Abraham! ...
105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
106. For this was a clear trial-
107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of Our believing Servants.
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.[/b]

The passages above suggests that the promise of Isaac came after Ishmael was born.

Am I right? If yes, who (or which seed) was the reference in Genesis 15:4 spoken before the birth of both men:

4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir

Context:Genesis 15:2,3
2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

That they went after the Bible,need we look any further as to who is behind the movement and his hatred for the True Word of God, knowing he doesnt waste his efforts on others. The Truth suffers these attacks but its nothing new;Truth will prevail.
By the way, Sodom and Pompeii stands as warnings from history that God delays judgement not because He is weak or slack but because He still gives chance for repentance (the choice still remains ours) and/or He knows His judgements are not man's size!

In Him, we have peace to the extent of our faith, after the measure of that He had in the Father. In the world(Including unsaved family members), we have division and variance just as He had with his brothers, the Pharisees, Sadducees etc

I am glad that the Op started with this:
A self-styled Prophet,Emmanuel Omale has been manipulated in an electoral fraud.
I only wish you included it in your topic!

1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls OF horses for
his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls FOR horses
and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he
bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

The first means forty thousand horses while the second means four thousand stalls, Inference? There were 10 horses per stall.

Confirmer:
sorry for replying late was a little busy. You said Hagar wasn't Abraham's wife but the bible said otherwise in Genesis 16:3 Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar the Egyptian, her slave-girl, and gave her to her husband Abram as his WIFE
The only explanation that you can give to proof your point is either that Isaac is the first son or that Ishmael is not actually Abraham's son. The biblical verse didn't say the PROMISED CHILD but THINE ONLY CHILD.
When did Ishmael ceased to be Abraham's son?
Did he later become his son after his death cos in Genesis 25:9 he was referred to as Abraham's son when he and Isaac buried Abraham.

Sarah's action does not mean God/Abraham ratified it so! What was even the intent of Sarah:

Genesis 16:2

2 And Sarai said to Abram, See here, the Lord has restrained me from bearing [children]. I am asking you to have intercourse with my maid; it may be that I can obtain children by her. And Abram listened to and heeded what Sarai said.

This matter needs not be long drawn that God said plainly,@ in Isaac shall thy seed be called" lays this matter to rest

kheart:
Hello Nairalanders, I am muslim and I need answers to some of this tough questions we (muslims) always ask people of the book.

I hope d thread ll not be hijack by e- warriors and bigots cos the purpose of this thread is shed some light in d underlying issues in d 2 faith.

Thanks for ur Cooperation.

Questions
1. Your Bible has been corrupted?

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it! (Quran 3:78)

There are of course many other verses in the Quran which say the Bible has been corrupted.

Corrupted in what sense? What's the purpose of the Word? Millions have relied on its promises and found it true. Millions have obeyed the command,"believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved" and the transformation of their lives (for some who were out and out sinners as well as moralists) could be testified by all who knew their past!
In what regard? Since you appear to believe that God gave the Word, are you not implying that He could not preserve His Word?! God Forbid!!!

2. What about the predictions of Muhammad (saw) in the Bible?

And when Jesus the Son of Mary said, O children of Israel, verily I am the Apostle of God sent unto you, confirming the law which was delivered before me, and bringing good tidings of an Apostle who shall come after me, and whose name shall be Ahmed. And when he produced unto them evident miracles, they said, this is manifest sorcery.  (Quran, 61:6)"

There is no such prediction sire! The framework of the Old and New covenants was God's promise to Abraham. God,in His Wisdom, worked it all out till the fulness of time came when the Promised Seed in Whom all the nations of the earth will blessed-Jesus Christ- came. After His coming, the church age (prophesied by Christ when He spoke of the coming of the Spirit) took off; being a break in the 70 weeks of Daniel prophecy!
Meaning? It's quite strange that there will come another with laws patterned after the Old Testament (after its dispensation in the Divine scheme of things was over!).

3. God has no son - do christians worship 3 Gods?

O people of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion, nor utter anything concerning God save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of God, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and do not say 'Three'. Desist, it will be better for you. God is only One God. . . The Messiah would never have scorned to be a slave of God.' (Surat al-Nisa, 171-2)

This misunderstanding by the author of the Quran is similar to the misunderstanding expressed by a rabbi of the judaizers when after being told, you must be born again, he asked if it meant going back to mama's womb! Jesus gave a gentle rebuke to his ignorance of things spiritual.
That Jesus is The Son of God does not mean we must understand it only from the human perspective of copulation before childbearing! Interestingly the Quran also accepts that in the incarnation of Christ, no copulation took place!
My point? It's a shortcut to error when ,we dimiss spiritual things simply because it does not agree with our understanding of nature.

4. Jesus was never crucified

“and their saying : we killed Christ Jesus, son of Mary, The messenger of Allah - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it was made to appear to them so; and those who disagree concerning it are full of doubts; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; For surely they killed him not; but Allah took him up unto Himself; and Allah is ever mighty, wise." (Quran 4: 157 & 158)

Note:
No insult please, I need rejoinders ASAP hope d mods will do d needful ASAP too. May Almighty Allah bless those that adhere to the rules

Centuries before, this had been prophesied:

Isaiah 53:12
Therefore will I divide Him a portion with the great [kings and rulers], and He shall divide the spoil with the mighty, because He poured out His life unto death, and [He let Himself] be regarded as a criminal and be numbered with the transgressors; yet He bore [and took away] the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors (the rebellious).

Daniel 9:26
And after the sixty-two weeks the Anointed One[Messiah] shall be killed and shall have nothing

Jesus' own words:

Before now, Jesus had said:
Luke 18:31-33
31 Then taking the Twelve [apostles] aside, He said to them, Listen! We are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written about the Son of Man through and by the prophets will be fulfilled.
32 For He will be handed over to the Gentiles and will be made sport of and scoffed and jeered at and insulted and spit upon.
33 They will flog Him and kill Him; and on the third day He will rise again.

It was a trial of faith for he who had received great promises concerning a son from his barren wife (who at the time of the test was way beyond 100 and there was no promise of another child after he that was promised) . There is no better source of explanation than that written:

Hebrews 11:17-19
By faith Abraham, when he was put to the test [while the testing of his faith was [d]still in progress], [e]had already brought Isaac for an offering; he who had gladly received and welcomed [God’s] promises was ready to sacrifice his only son,
18 Of whom it was said, Through Isaac shall your descendants be reckoned.
19 For he reasoned that God was able to raise [him] up even from among the dead. Indeed in the sense that Isaac was figuratively dead [potentially sacrificed], he did [actually] receive him back from the dead.

Verse 18 was the real sting of the test! That's why Abraham,in verse 19, did not reason that God would give him another child (even though he had others and Ishmael showed he was not impotent) but would raise up the one of whom He had spoken and made such promises, if death had actually occurred.

Moreover, Sarah was 90 (in chapter 21) when she had Isaac and Genesis 23 records her death at 127 yrs meaning the events between Genesis 21 (when Isaac was born) and 22 was 37 years: long enough for Isaac to had grown and Abraham and Sarah to have aged even more and since the promise of a child had been fulfilled, there was no expectation on the part of Sarah to bear any new ones hence the test of faith.(apart from Ishmael and Isaac, Abraham had other sons after Sarah died meaning the trial of faith was particularly concerning the one of whom God had spoken)

mustymatic:
A number of Christians wouldn't agree with you my brother..
Even the term "Bible" is not found in the Bible. "Trinity" is another such term.

The focus here is not the concepts (unmistakably taught in scripture) but the exaltation of a person which is foreign to the Book (Bible) that has the first mention of the person. Neither Jesus or His apostles enjoined or exemplified such.