₦airaland Forum

Op, delineate some of the points by which your doubts were stirred.

malvisguy212:
brother, excellent reply, may God bless you even more.

Glory to God and Father of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. God bless you too!

EMILO2STAY:
the bible is of no personal interpretation. Why dont u allow the bible to explain itself before jumping into hasty conclutions.

Jesus christ came to die and defeat death by resurrecting on the third day, he never went to paradise or heaven or any imaginary place. We know this because christ said 'i am not yet ascended to my father john 20.17, mathew 12.40.paul also comfirmed it in 1 corinthians 15.3-4, so the bible nowhere said that his body was buried and his spirit went to paradise or heaven. Jesus died and went only to the grave, therefore the criminal could not have gone to heaven with jesus because jesus did not go to heaven that day. paul confirmed this again in ephisians 4.9

A fundamental principle to sound bible study is to carefully check the context. Notice the specific wording of the mans request. 'lord rememeber me when you come into your kingdom', this kingdom is the kingdom that christ will establish at his return. Not abrahams bossom or an imaginary place we go when we die.

Notice also jesus response to him " you will be with me in paradise.

This term paradise is not abrahams bossom or any other imaginary place we go when we die , but refers only to heaven. 2 corinthians 12.2-4, revelation 2.7,rev.22.2.this explains that the tree of life is in the new jerusalem. Rev.21.2-3. After the resurrection of the dead mentioned in rev.20. Only at that time will men dwell with jesus in paradise.

Now putting all these scripture together, we can see that the paradise mentioned here in which jesus will dwell with men is still at a future time.

Certainly the true meaning ofthe passage would be better understood if the comma had been placed after the word today.

We need to understand first that original text of the bible(GREEK for the new testament and hebrew and aramaic for old testament) contains no punctuations.

Part of jesus reply was " assurredly i say to you today", was a common hebrew idiom, which is constantly used for every solemn emphasis. an example of this hebrew phrase, worded similarly to christ statement is found in deuteronomy 30.18( i announce to you today that you shall surelly perish) and acts.20.26(therefore i declare to you today that i am innocent of the blood of all men).

Many centuries later when punctuation were inserted, jesus meaning was distorted by the wrong placement of the comma and the hebrew figure was obscured. Several other bible translations and reference works like the rotherdam translation the emphatic diaglott, the concordant literal new testament etc recognize the hebrew idiom and place the coma correctly after the word "today" for proper punctuation.

In conclution jesus never said nor implied that the dying man would be with him in heaven or paradise that very day, jesus was encouraging him by solemnly assuring him that a time will come in God's future kingdom on earth when he will be resurrected and be united with christ again.

k

donfemo:
I just read the verses and realised you only quoted the part that justifies your ignorance. There's no need to talk much because you already know the truth.

Thank you very much.

johnydon22:
Death, no benefit, cus you are bleeping dead. . inexistent. . dead people are fvcking dead

Ok so what's the stress labouring to'help' those who do believe? Why not channel your intellectual philantrophy to the illiterates to empower them to get the best of a life rather than here on NL opposing those who are obviously satisified with their God and His Precious Word?
since, according to you, death brings an end (inexistence)>

johnydon22:
Ok then show us the verses where he talked to amelekites, hittites, jebusites etc in in pillars of clouds, gave them manners from heaven, pillars of fires and etc. .

Right from the time of Cain down to Enoch (not an Israelite,mind you), Job,(not an Israelite too), Abraham, Abimelech on to the nations that came after the flood and the great dispersion,God has been revealing Himself to man.
This was summarised in Romans 1:21-23

21 Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and [c]godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves].
23 And by them the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God were exchanged for and represented by images, resembling mortal man and birds and beasts and reptiles.

[b] Fables should be taught as fables, myth as myths and miracles as poetic fancies, to teach superstition as truth is horrifying, a child's mind accepts them and only through great pain or perhaps tragedy will he be free of it. [/b]Hypatia of Alexandria

Do atheist believe man die like the beasts? death ends it all?

[b]Uuuuuuhm you call annihilating them both women and children and babies for the isrealites to occupy their land Just. . . Wonder where you guys get definition of words...

Do your own research to those nations and their lifestyle first (after the flood).At least it's good you believe those nations existed. There was a stern warning to Israel to avoid their ways but when they failed, similar judgement came. I saw a post by you or perhaps one of yours that we dont need the Bible to tell us that murder is wrong. (Indeed anyone with a conscience realises this; do animals have conscience too?) Question is Who then takes vengeance when the Nihilist goes on rampage doing that which the atheist (with a conscience) believes is wrong but has no power to restrain?

why dah heck would a perfect all powerful being be clamoring for worship,annihilating people who dont give it.

Clamoring for worship from who? you? Realise that man was created for a purpose and when he deviates from that,there being no void,he becomes useful for another purpose opposite from that for which he was created. This is explained by the anarchy and cesspool of vileness found in places such as Sodom, Pompeii etc You that claimed we dont need the Bible to tell us murder is wrong now take sides with nations that do such and many more unimaginable abominations?!

what is a perfect being doing with love and worship to start killing to get it, such high ground egoism is as a result of narcissism which in no way portrays a perfect being just a love mongering entity. [/b]

Well it's strange to measure God or try to understand with an under-utilised brain (no matter how sharp/intelligent/ bright it is).

sonmvayina:
These christains are all grabing on straws..they know the stories don't make sense buut they still try to mske sense out of non seense..they just don't want to accept the fact that they have lived their life believing a lie..it is really a hard decision to make, but it is one that will set you free for the rest of your life...

Pray, what are the possible consequences of the highlighted at death? What will be the benefit of the bolded at death?

sonmvayina:
Deutronomy 32:1-10

Can you specify your grouse with this reference?

kay1one2:
Those nations lived in idolatry. When the israelites did theirs, they got smacked too. But for God's tender mercies they would have been totally destroyed!

And the mercies only served for the repentant ones among them and those that were not part of the abominations carried out by the majority. Besides, God's everlasting promise to Abraham played a part in this.

johnydon22:
The nation lived in which idolatry. . did god reveal himself to them like he allegedly revealed to the isrealites

Oh yes He did!

in many of the mythological sagas? . . so he annihilates a whole bunch of races for worshipping their own god and [b]has never heard of him

before you act as their advocate perfect your studies from both sides of the argument!, The highlighted is your escape route I guess.

wiped out a whole bunch of races, commanded the isrealites to annihilate them and occupy their lands. . . again, you don't know the meaning of favouritism[/b]

And did same for Israel when they repeated similar sins.(but spared a remnant who did not do after the abominations of the rest) An Incorruptible Judge He!

Michal was David's (not Adriel's) wife. Marginal reading shows the text in kjv referred to Michal's sister (Merab who got married to Adriel the Barzillaite)

To put the op in another way , He who breaks an hedge, a serpent shall bite him. Ecclesiaistes 10:8

Great Moments Together In God’s Presence
By Tom Shaw

I am a spiritual child of the 1950’s, born-again in the north of Ireland and spiritually born into an atmosphere of vital, dynamic prayer meetings. No, it wasn’t a time of revival, when we expect prayer meetings to be highly charged spiritually. Such powerful prayer meetings were very much the order of the day in the fifties and sixties in Ulster, and perhaps in other parts of the British Isles. Memories of those prayer times still linger in my mind and often cause me to long for them again and ask, "Whatever happened to those prayer meetings?" Several features are worth recalling.

There was great power in prayer. Some prayers were offered with the thundering tones of a person who was deadly serious about the business of prayer. Others found their expression in gentler tones, but with no loss of power or sincerity. There was never any sense of competition. These were people who meant business at the Throne of Grace. Language was varied, from the well-phrased and grammatically-perfect sentences, to the blundering expressions of heartfelt desires in which grammar and articulation played little part. All had a burden for God to hear and answer. Very seldom was there a prayer which smacked of trying to impress men rather than God.

The subject matter in those prayer meetings was never trivial. Large issues were at stake and needed to be voiced to God. Petitions were offered for personal holiness. Concern for the lost figured largely, as souls would weep over the erring ones. So passionate were those prayers that one felt sinners could not fail to be moved to conviction and conversion. Prayer for Heaven-sent revival within the Church and nation was a recurring theme. Longings were often expressed to see the Church and nation gripped by the power of God and the face of society changed for the glory and honor of God’s name.

The atmosphere of those meetings had to be experienced. God was there in a very marked way and His presence was almost tangible. Earth and eternity were often united in the place of prayer. There were moments of high praise and worship, and now and again the prayers would be interspersed with the singing of an appropriate chorus or verse of a hymn or Psalm, and sometimes a Scripture reading. But in general the praying was of an intercessory nature. It was an atmosphere of earnestness and brokenness in which prayers were made to God. Tears would often flow from even the strongest men as they wept their hearts out before God. I can hardly ever remember feeling bored in those prayer times, the reason being that we went with the right attitude and desire to meet with God, and we were seldom disappointed. Our greatest disappointment was when the prayer meeting ended and we left that sacred spot.

The length of those seasons of prayer would probably shock this generation of Christians. Hour after hour they would intercede, sometimes through the entire night until the dawn would break and men would go straight from the meeting to their work. At other times meetings were shorter, but nonetheless blessed. There were few long pauses, few intermissions, as people would pray with real fervor one after another. Expressions like "Amen!"; "Praise the Lord!"; "Yes, Lord!" were often heard from the others gathered there as they gladly endorsed the prayer being prayed. There was nothing mute about these great moments together in God’s presence.

The posture adopted by most in those periods of prayer was normally kneeling, while some would sit and a few would prostrate themselves on the floor, and others would stand when they prayed publicly. Carpeted floors were not common in churches and halls in those days and often intercessors kneeled for hours on hard, wooden floors. Occasionally some might slip a thin, paperback hymnbook under their knees to ease the pressure. In some prayer rooms there was the luxury of a prayer mat to kneel on. Comfort was not the important thing; prayer was. And those prayers had one object in view, what they called "getting through to God." They would not leave until they felt they had prayed through and that Heaven had heard.



"Whatever happened to the prayer meeting?" may be the wrong question. Perhaps we should be asking, "Whatever happened to us?" Now and again we come across prayer meetings like those, but they are few and far between. Many of our modern prayer meetings are lacking in real intercessory praying, brokenness and passion. God deliver us from prayer meetings that do not bring us to grips with the enemy of our souls, that involve no cost or sacrifice, no wounds or scars from the battle.

In considering the whole matter of past and present in relation to the prayer meeting we would do well to heed the familiar words of A. W. Tozer: "Prayer is not a playground, but a battleground." There are no celebrations on a battleground until the victory is won. Let a handful of burdened believers set themselves to pray as I have described earlier and all hell will erupt against such efforts, but all heaven will respond.

Practise was adopted by early church cos it was the Day of the Lord - the Day of Resurrection.

Acts 20:7
7 And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled together to break bread [[a]the Lord’s Supper], Paul discoursed with them, intending to leave the next morning; and he kept on with his message until midnight.

1 Corinth 16:2

2 On the first [day] of each week, let each one of you [personally] put aside something and save it up as he has prospered [in proportion to what he is given], so that no collections will need to be taken after I come.

johnydon22:
Yeah you are right and then she had a baby for God, which basically makes her

God's baby mama

Your opinion.

adenine02:
Is that imposible for God to do

To contradict Himself?!

To say do not marry from other nations but I will raise up a prophet thence? in the same book?

Do you appreciate how God rates His Word?

That is why I said not to set aside that issue but to retain it as a caution.

Let Mary reply the op:

Luke 1:38

So Mary said, “Yes, I am a servant of the Lord; let this happen to me according to your word.” Then the angel departed from her.

adenine02:
Yes u r rite
Det 18 18
I will raise THEM up a prophet
Wu is d THEM reffering to
D 12 tribes of israel because moses was together with dem
Remember moses is one of them

Just as the Prophet was going to be one of them. God that forbade Israel marrying from other nations will all of a sudden promise them a prophet from thence?! What a contradiction!

adenine02:
1. OKAY LET'S SAY THREE DISTINGUISHING POINTS:

bros four

Their are many prophet after moses dt r not like moses

1. Prophet
2. Like moses


1. Prophet like unto Moses (heralding a new dispensation in God's covenant dealings in pursuance of HIS PROMISE TO AHBRAHAM


Y is ishmael not part of d promise

Dont u tink it odd dt d bible said little abt ishmael and his generation wu r d arabs, neighbour to d other 12 tribes.

Here is what God said:

Genesis 21:12
12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and [size=13pt]because of thy bondwoman[/size]; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called




Genesis 26:1-4

And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. 2 And the Lord appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of: 3 sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; 4 and I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Was Ishmael the child God promised to Abraham? NO


Besides, there were other kids too. Why singling out Ishmael/Arabs?

Genesis 25:2-6
Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. 2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. 3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim. 4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah. 5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac. 6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

.Isaac was the child of promise hence he inherited the blessings.

adenine02:
Deuteronomy 18:18
I will raise THEM up
A PROPHET
from among their BRETHREN,
LIKE UNTO THEE,
and will put my WORDS IN HIS MOUTH;
and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him

Note that Moses was of the Israelites brethren!

Exodus 2:11
11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown,that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

And the Prophet was to be of their brethren just as Moses was

This matter is very straight.

adenine02:
So check this Act 3 22
For Moses truly
SAID UNTO THE FATHER,
A PROPHET shall the Lord your God raise up
unto you OF YOUR BREDREN,
LIKE UNTO ME;
him shall ye HEAR in all things whatsoever he shall SAY unto you


1. A PROPHET
2. LIKE MOSES
3. OF THEIR BROTHER
4. HE WILL HEAR

So bro it is not 2 distinguishing points
Thanks

Acts 3:22
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Okay let's say three distinguishing points:
1. Prophet like unto Moses (heralding a new dispensation in God's covenant dealings in pursuance of His promise to Abraham)
2. One from one of their sons/tribes of Israel (just like Kings were to be from any of the 12 tribes each tribe having patriarch that was a brother to the others)
3. The Word of the Lord will be put in His mouth.(A good example being when Moses gave this prophecy in Deuteronomy 18:18

adenine02:
Bro Det 18 18 is God discription to moses and it is never moses own words.

Yes but the distinguishing marks stand. Besides,I am sure you know that nobody heard any Divine audible voice here too? Moses was taught of the Lord on what to say just like it happened for Jesus!

Genesis 22:18 was God's promise to Abraham:

18 And[b] in your Seed [[e]Christ] shall all the nations of the earth be blessed[/b] and [by Him] bless themselves, because you have heard and obeyed My voice.

The Old and New Covenants were based on this framework. Christ came for all but the Israelites, being the biological descendants of Abraham had the first benefit.

After all before the Op (which is just a lesson in importunity) this had taken place:

Matthew 4:24,25

24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. 25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judæa, and from beyond Jordan

and when some of the biological descendants were sceptical, this was the warning

Matthew 8:10,11

10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

malvisguy212:
bro, bless you, I admire your scriptural knowledge.good morning.

Good Morning bro, God bless you too!

adenine02:
May God bless ur knowledge bro
My points r not abt mohammed
I stand on d fact dt definatly dis prophecy is not abt jesus for d following reasons
1. Jesus is not LIKE moses
- moses has father and mother: jesus has only mother
- moses died and did not resurect: jesus died and resurected according to d bible
- moses have wife and kid: jesus not
- moses is a prophet: jesus is a SON OF GOD or GOD THE SON or LORD or even refer to as GOD
2. D bible is reffering to someone not from moses nation; AMONG YOUR BROTHERS
so who r d brothers of moses tribe
B4 moses was abraham
Abraham has two sons from 2 women from 2 nation, they r ISAAC and ISHMEAL
Moses and jesus are descendant of ISAAC while mohammed (arab) is a descendant of ishmeal. So d arab and israeli are brothers from Abraham
So d prophecy is not abt another tribe of israel it another nation close to israel
3. The word of God
Quran was not send down to mohammed as a book. It is a revelation resited drectly to him word for word.
As fr jesus d holy spirit inspire him with d words.


Lastly dis prophecy might not be for prophet mohammed but i still stand on d fact dt it is definatly not jesus.
Thanks.

Moses gave only two distinguishing marks:
the Prophet will be an Israelite, and He will speak the Words of God. There were many prophets who matched this description in Israel but none was a mediator of any Covenant as Moses was. Midian and a number of people were Abraham's children too; why single out Ishmael?

Besides, God never raised up any body from any other nation as a prophet so it is an aberration to insist that the prophet must be from Ishmael's descendants.

Jeremiah even reveals that judgement was to come on some Israelites who claimed," The Lord has raised up prophets in Babylon"Jeremiah 29:15

Alwaystrue:
Deuteronomy 18:18
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


Acts 3:20-24
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days

It is Jesus. He is the mediator of the new convenant just like Moses mediated for the old,

Thanks a lot.

adenine02:
Bro
Prophecies was made abt jesus buh bear it in mind dt d name JESUS was never mensoned so we shld b careful attributing prophecies
Our point of argument here is Det 18:18
And I say dt prophecy is not JESUS
Shalom.

Thanks for your time; how about the other prophecies that uses titles familiar to the Jews: Priest, Seed, Shepherd, King, Breaker etc used in prophecy?

adenine02:
Bro u scare me with this God wrath thing
I am not blasfeming
Angel r not men and not jinn
They r spirit
And dy r holy
So dis is wat mean wen i say angel
If am wrong let me knw

I dont mean to scare you; just a paraphrasing of what the Bible says. There are myriads of angels but One Holy Spirit.

And wen u say Jesus spoke in private
I am not disputting that
Buh can show me any wer that God spoke directly bak to Jesus d way e did to moses

Moses, like Jesus, dialogued with God in private. In public they spoke as God taught them . As to a public dialogue between Jesus and the Father , see John 12:28,
Can you show me where God spoke to Moses in the full glare of the Egyptians before whom He promised to teach Moses what to say. Apart from when the law was to be given in which case all Israel heard, at what instance did Moses converse with God openly before the Israelites?

I BELIVE God spoke to Jesus and mohammed via spirits (angel)

but the Bible says of Jesus

John 3:34
34 For since He Whom God has sent speaks the words of God [proclaims God’s own message], God does not give Him His Spirit sparingly or by measure, but boundless is the gift God makes of His Spirit!

Not an angel. In no place was it said in the Bible that angels were given

Wether God spoke directly or not to jesus dt still dont prove Det 18 18 is talking abt jesus
I still stand on d fact dt
Jesus is seen by all xtain as Son od God or God d son and not prophet like moses
Jesus is same tribe wit moses
And humanly jesus is not like moses
So wu s d verse talking abt?
Cos definately its not Jesus

Pls note dt i am note in any way insulting ur religion
So d 'wrath of God' thing, pls put it aside
Thanks

If it's in the Word of God, we will rather bear it in mind as a caution not a threat. Okay, Who was the Seed in Whom all the nations of the world will be blessed as promised to Abraham and Isaac? Who was the High Priest that David prophesied about? And Who was the King Isaiah prophesied about? Singling out Moses prophesy makes it contradictory to these other references.

tpiadotcom:
^ read your bible properly, you havent done so yet.

Noted, with thanks!

adenine02:
Bros frm d verses u qouted
Moses spoke to God and God replied
Buh Jesus said God is speaking to him tru d HOLY SPIRIT( or i may say angel)

the Holy Spirit was never used as a substitute for an angel except if you can show this; adding your own subversive perception is to ask for God's wrath.

It s God speaking to two differt pple in two different ways
God never spoke back to Jesus as He did to moses

Now we have one of the contemporaries of Jesus Christ who saw everything and would even correct Jesus Christ when He said," For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.." One of such instances when the Father spoke was given in John 12.

Besides, how many times did Moses, in full public glare, have this dialogue with God in Egypt or the wilderness? Most of these were done in private; like Jesus so also with Moses.

As for muhammed spoke is word to him tru d spirit (angel jubril)

I wonder how and when or where the Holy Spirit and angel Gabriel became the same?!
Do you mean Mary's conception was also by the angel since the same angel Gabriel said to Mary, the Holy Ghost shall overshadow you? Or was it the angel Gabriel that was upon Moses part of which was taken and given to the 70 elders in Numbers 11:25?!