budaatum:

KnownUnknown, I temporarily plead guilty to all your charges, for they sure do task one.
Max, adam, who it is written was created from mud and God's breath, was a naked ignorant slave who refused to use his own heart and soul and mind to ask and knock and seek, and stupidly believed that the acquisition of knowledge would kill him.
A perfect candidate for your group I daresay, except for eve who freed him.

A demigod is one given authority over all others in the same place.
adam was given authority over all the creatures in that garden that's exactly what a demigod means.

gisevak:
You are not completely right concerning the limitations of our five senses. Our senses can easily give us subjective views of something.

Indeed if you a passive receiver of what your senses perceive perhaps, or a slave to your senses like a certain adam who's subjective senses informed him that seeking to know would kill him.

Those who first learn to use their senses like eve did, would know who the master is and who is the slave between one's senses and oneself and would therefore not easily be led.

Temptation of Christ, for Bible readers.

gisevak:

Reading through the links you provided. I would want to know those things those gods created, when and how they do so. And if, by the time I finished reading, I couldn't see any proof there, I would be disappointed. Well, there may be a creator or an infinite number of creators. Maybe those links can prove it.

Instead of asking and seeking and knocking with your own heart and soul and mind so you can prove for yourself and know, you expect to be given so you can receive? Do tell if that does not sound like some who are given a book and therefore believe.

Texts are not to be read as, "by the time I finished reading I should know", and links don't prove things. What you read is for you to consider, then research and learn more and eventually know.


The below is a reminder to self, and may be ignored.

budaatum:
Objectivity in science is a value that informs how science is practiced and how scientific truths are discovered. It is the idea that scientists, in attempting to uncover truths about the natural world, must aspire to eliminate personal biases, a priori commitments, emotional involvement, etc. Objectivity is often attributed to the property of scientific measurement, as the accuracy of a measurement can be tested independent from the individual scientist who first reports it.

Objectivity is a central philosophical concept, related to reality and truth, which has been variously defined by sources. Generally, objectivity means the state or quality of being true even outside a subject's individual biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings. A proposition is generally considered objectively true (to have objective truth) when its truth conditions are met without biases caused by feelings, ideas, opinions, etc., of a sentient subject. A second, broader meaning of the term refers to the ability in any context to judge fairly, without partiality or external influence. This second meaning of objectivity is sometimes used synonymously with neutrality.

budaatum:


This will be true about Genesis 1. But I would not say it applies to Genesis 2 where adam and eve do not seem to be equal to each other. Jewish tradition and culture has in fact emphasised that lack of "equality".

Genesis 2 human does definitely not seem equal to Genesis 1 human to me.

They were separated in genesis 2.

The “rib” here means tsela, which means a side of something,.
In every context the word refers to the whole side of a bilaterally symmetrical object. the most appropriate translation would be "side."

Several ancient texts (discovered in 1945 near Nag Hammadi, Egypt) show that the biblical creation accounts were interpreted freely and allegorically in the first few centuries of the common era. In some of these texts, eve is depicted as a powerful force while adam is passive.

Apocalypse of adam (c. 50–150)
In this work, adam speaks and says that eve “taught me a word of knowledge of the eternal God.” The text thus refers to eve as a teacher of theological knowledge.



“This particular blessing (or for women, “Blessed art thou, O Lord our G-d, King of the universe, for having made me according to His will”), is preceded in the prayer book by two others thanking G-d for being a Jew and for not being a slave. Together, the three help a Jew express gratitude for his or her particular lot in life. Men thank G-d for being placed in a position to perform more mitzvot (obligations) than women, since Torah assigns them a greater number. The Torah tells us that the fact that men have more mitzvot indicates they have further to go in order to perfect themselves in the world. The Torah tells us that women, on the other hand, in order to accomplish their specific mission, are born more spiritually evolved. Thus, a man can legitimately thank Hashem for not having been made a woman, because he has a greater number of opportunities to use the mitzvot as tools to connect to G-d.”
https://torah.org/learning/women-class31/

budaatum:


The Amala of buda

(I am titling this in you honour).

It is your opinion that those two books, which I want to believe you've read, make the brain dull and are "tools of European/Arab colonization, domination, and subjugation", A001, and you believe that despite the fact that you probably don't think I am dull, which just shows that you don't believe what you see with your own eyes.

This is not a philosophy forum, and me quoting books the majority have not read makes what I say go completely over the heads of most, though that does not stop me quoting philosophy as this thread shows. I mean, see you calling me all sorts according to what I quote instead of engaging with the words you see and read. Some even go as far as calling atheist me a cultist out of fear of what they know not.

A big book like the Bible and a complex book like the Qur'an can not possible be for dull people because one is far too big to be read by dull people and both are written in such a way that a fully functioning mind is required to read and understand them.

Take the Garden of Eden story. Some think it tells them not to eat the fruits of knowledge because they will die if they do. While some read the same story and see how eve freed herself and adam from slavery and both lived a very long time. Those with that understanding therefore build libraries in walking distance to every citizen in their cities so people can be freed like eve. Same story, but more than one interpretation and understanding. One an enslaving mentality, and the other a freeing mentality. It's why American slave owners kept the Bible from their slaves, so the slaves don't read it and be inspired to revolt and free themselves. And why the Qur'an, which in the quoted verse is telling people to read widely to develop their minds, is kept in a language the majority can not read. And unfortunately, rather than see the text in the book and what it does, you see how some have used it to manipulate but disregard those who have used it to open eyes and enlighten and free.

I was recently asked what books to read as a prequel to Heidegger's Being and Time. My response is below. If one is in Nigeria where the most readily available biggest and difficult books to read are the Bible and the Quran and you haven't read them, you'd find it difficult to read Plato, and Heidegger would be like trying to read Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs before you learn to talk.

It's some people who only see their own perspective and no other that tend to have the issues that you have with buda, A001. There's lots of enlightened people who take me very seriously on here and in real life and who don't have issues with me at all. Some wonder how or why I'd quote what you call silly books together with Plato and Aristotle which are not silly, and some try to work out the conundrum it presents before them instead of sticking their heads in the sand and sticking a label on what they see not.

We are here freely communicating in the language of a book, and are opportuned to read many other books in that language too because of a book you claim was "tools of European/Arab colonization, domination, and subjugation". But I don't see colonized, dominated and subjugated A001 when I read what you write, do note, though I do see misinformed due to the lack of deep looking. For claiming "tools of European", you fail to have born in mind that at best it was a tool of Romans, who imposed it on Europe, as its imposition on Britain's was very similar to Nigeria's. Yet see how they are doing and perhaps how we shall do some day.



Make sure you get some ewedu and gbẹgiri to go with your portion of buda's amala please, or you'd be eating your swallow dry.

Don't waste time to reply me further. I didn't bother to read this epistle.

A person that doesn't understand Arabic and can't read Qur'an can't tell me anything about Quran or Islam that I don't already know. FYI, Qur'an only exists in Arabic language.

Any translation of the book isn't the Qur'an itself. Of course, you may not know this fact since you never practiced Islam, and you know little about the religion or its major religious text.

I consider posts praising Qur'an and/or the Bible as silly and such a poster as a stupid African.

A001:

Since the two books you attached as pictures in that post are among the sources of your words, then you must understand why enlightened people would always have issues with your posts. You can't be posting biblical or quranic verses all about that look like tales meant for kids and expect intelligent people to take you seriously.

Those two books are meant for dull people as they make the brain dull. There are thousand and one books about philosophy and science that intelligent people quote in intellectual discussion before even thinking of quoting silly books like the Bible and Qur'an, which are harmful religious texts for Africans.

The Bible and Qur'an are tools of European/Arab colonization, domination, and subjugation. Of course, you can start turning your amala as usual, trying to manipulate yourself and other gullible people.

Knowing your history here, I don't expect you to understand these simple and glaring issues I stated.

The Amala of buda

(I am titling this in you honour).

It is your opinion that those two books, which I want to believe you've read, make the brain dull and are "tools of European/Arab colonization, domination, and subjugation", A001, and you believe that despite the fact that you probably don't think I am dull, which just shows that you don't believe what you see with your own eyes.

This is not a philosophy forum, and me quoting books the majority have not read makes what I say go completely over the heads of most, though that does not stop me quoting philosophy as this thread shows. I mean, see you calling me all sorts according to what I quote instead of engaging with the words you see and read. Some even go as far as calling atheist me a cultist out of fear of what they know not.

A big book like the Bible and a complex book like the Qur'an can not possible be for dull people because one is far too big to be read by dull people and both are written in such a way that a fully functioning mind is required to read and understand them.

Take the Garden of Eden story. Some think it tells them not to eat the fruits of knowledge because they will die if they do. While some read the same story and see how eve freed herself and adam from slavery and both lived a very long time. Those with that understanding therefore build libraries in walking distance to every citizen in their cities so people can be freed like eve. Same story, but more than one interpretation and understanding. One an enslaving mentality, and the other a freeing mentality. It's why American slave owners kept the Bible from their slaves, so the slaves don't read it and be inspired to revolt and free themselves. And why the Qur'an, which in the quoted verse is telling people to read widely to develop their minds, is kept in a language the majority can not read. And unfortunately, rather than see the text in the book and what it does, you see how some have used it to manipulate but disregard those who have used it to open eyes and enlighten and free.

I was recently asked what books to read as a prequel to Heidegger's Being and Time. My response is below. If one is in Nigeria where the most readily available biggest and difficult books to read are the Bible and the Quran and you haven't read them, you'd find it difficult to read Plato, and Heidegger would be like trying to read Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs before you learn to talk.

It's some people who only see their own perspective and no other that tend to have the issues that you have with buda, A001. There's lots of enlightened people who take me very seriously on here and in real life and who don't have issues with me at all. Some wonder how or why I'd quote what you call silly books together with Plato and Aristotle which are not silly, and some try to work out the conundrum it presents before them instead of sticking their heads in the sand and sticking a label on what they see not.

We are here freely communicating in the language of a book, and are opportuned to read many other books in that language too because of a book you claim was "tools of European/Arab colonization, domination, and subjugation". But I don't see colonized, dominated and subjugated A001 when I read what you write, do note, though I do see misinformed due to the lack of deep looking. For claiming "tools of European", you fail to have born in mind that at best it was a tool of Romans, who imposed it on Europe, as its imposition on Britain's was very similar to Nigeria's. Yet see how they are doing and perhaps how we shall do some day.

budaatum:

As a prequel? Whao! Where does one begin!

From reading the Bible I suppose. Proper reading, I mean, starting at Genesis and page by page to the end of Revelations, because it is readily available and easy to learn to read. Then the Qur'an. To see what else is out there. They could be read the other way round depending on availability, but both are essential to cure oneself of belief and for learning to think and reason and research for oneself.

Then Plato, just so one understands what the heck Aristotle is talking about because he'd be next.

From there, you let yourself be led I suppose, through you investigating what you may have learnt so far.

You will need enthusiasm I do confess. For while I wish I'd read Heidegger when I was much younger, I wouldn't have comprehended what the heck he was saying or talking about. Golly, I struggle even now!

Audio Being and Time can be found here

Make sure you get some ewedu and gbẹgiri to go with your portion of buda's amala please, or you'd be eating your swallow dry.

budaatum:


Anyone who believes this nonsense should also believe God will rain down manna from heaven so they eat bread today. Do let me know if your belly is full please.

As for those who know God, I suggest you remember that "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

And "food" here includes "aid of common Nigerians who are subjected to hardship", because you are ordered and empowered to "rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground”, unless you are one of those stupid enslaved adam creations who must instead be a slave in a Garden of Eden afraid to eat the fruits of knowledge for fear knowledge will kill you!

Be like eve. Eat fruits of knowledge and save yourself from slavery!

You are entitled to your own opinion......

Has anyone in the entire world ever produced money in the pocket without working? Whether it is by faith or power just asking, because I am sure not everyone may have the opportunity to work though they may like to work to earn money just like you said to withdraw from the ATM to have in their pocket, it is my knowledge that some do not work but always have money in their pockets either as a gift from a seen or unseen whichever the money was seen in the pocket..Buda is quite impeccable in his explanations however it does not stop the impossible to be possible which may not be convincing with words....Can everyone be God, No, would some be privileged to know everything about engineering, science, biology which maybe what forms creation, maybe or maybe not...I admire your intelligence and perhaps you have read so much which I may not have the patience to, however, I know if I ask God to explain what happened in the garden of Eden without reading any book, do you agree that I maybe given in-depth knowledge, I mean without reading any bible? Afterall, you have advised that we ask, seek and find and that the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth...Sir, not everything in the book I read I may understand, it still does stop me from knowing about my forefather who happens to be adam whose Father is God, according to you he was made from the dust of Earth, well, sorry, according to bible record but I am sure adam is just like God because He is the image of God, perhaps living the life which he was meant to live which is predestined...Before adam are the forbidden fruit, I bet he was happy within what he knew, but after he ate the forbidden fruits, there was trouble with him, I cannot know beyond what I shall know, except Buda, is God, Buda cannot know everything in the universe, no matter how much he reads....Afterall it was necessary for the Holy Spirit to teach, if I am lucky, the Holy Spirit can teach me as a human form what I must know one at a time...The point I am trying to make is that adam was made to superintend over all, which would have taken years to learn more given that he was created to be immortal until he did not stick to instructions...eve did not free adam, instead she made adam lag behind, still, it is indeed a good lesson that Freeze have come to learn, between listening to Buda or God if at all He exist, I am sure Buda, will advise me to listen to God and also wish that I reach perfection afterall the goal is make exploits by living the Good way as it pleases Father....Leader Olumba Olumba Obu has promised us everlasting peace, joy, happiness and all beautiful things of life if we love one another shun fornication, drinking, lies, and all evil this is my hope of glory, and I shall know all things...Buda Faith is indeed a powerful ingredients in life because how do you hope for a better Nigeria if you don't have faith, or do you expect me to smash my head in the rocks or river because there is no prosperity for ALL in the country, well, I shall not, bible is a puzzle but some can as well solve that puzzle without reading the Bible but by having a TEACHER who was in the very beginning....The Garden of Eden was the first Brotherhood, although had not come out in full, so, it was a School to learn how to superintend the earth, but, adam was carried away by what eve advised him as against listening only to His Teacher who is God, at the end, he failed in his course, as a loving God he was given another opportunity to make it right, that was why when He came back decided not to marry but follow hook, line and sinker the Teachings of his Father....Whether I am making sense or not, this I am aware of, which is, adam is PERFECT and the image of God...Are you the image of God? Is that dummy out there the image of God, well, maybe you can educate me, still, it does not eradicate the fact that adam only erred for God's glory to be made manifest somehow....I would say this is inspired by the Holy Spirit personified in Leader Olumba Olumba Obu....In Brotherhood of the Cross and Star, we have Engineers, and all professions but Father is the Leader of them all, and you who says you are not, ask yourself if truly you are not, and I who say I am, let me ask myself if truly I am, agreed some maybe fortunate to have the 12 powers of man to make exploits and dominate while some would just be followers wherever anyone fine themselves they should be happy...I know that where I am lacking in knowledge if ALL would permit in due time I will reach the accurate knowledge of Truth for now let me concern myself with bettering the lots of those who have not known the real truth my referring them to the Supernatural Teacher.

budaatum:

This is not what I read in my own book. God was not written to have been created from mud like adam was! But if that's what you read in your's, so be it to you.

Do go and check the duty adam was given though, to tend a garden, which is clearly not the duty given to the image of God's creation, which was, rule over the earth and the sea and dominate and subdue and be blessed. And neither was their pay the same pay - all the fruit bearing trees for one, and not some trees for the other.


Are you suggesting adam was predestined to live as an Ignorant slave in the garden of Eden?

If so, thankfully, eve objected and freed him.


Really? Then, use her own senses eve must be Perfection Plus for using her senses. And the creation in the image of God must be Perfection Plus Plus.

I sure know which I would rather be.


Really? You just have faith, and money that is not in your pocket appears because you have faith?

Me, I have to get off my faithless ass and work with the sweat of my brow and then at the end of the month money appears in my bank account from which I then use my ATM to transfer some of it into my pocket which I will then see in my pocket when I check my pocket.

But I guess that's because my God that requires me to work for the money in my pocket must not be as powerful as your God that puts money in your pocket because you have faith.

You very faithful freeze!


Freeze, what you are asking of buda is that buda abandon all the intelligence you claim buda has and become ignorant and enslaved in the Garden of Eden where buda's head can be filled with what your head is filled with.

To which buda's response is, "I would rather go and swim in nuclear waste". And to which I add, if buda does what you suggest, I will take that buda to the bottom of a river and bash that buda's head against a rock and drown that buda in nuclear waste and cut that buda into tiny bits and feed that dead buda to the fish! Though I might not do that last bit so as not to poison the poor fish.

Thou shalt not tempt buda with ignorance, freeze, for you shall not succeed!

Buda you are not different from adam you are only an Engineer and maybe he is a farmer does not make anyone better than the other..I am not ignorant, but, I would not engage you further since it is everyone that works that have a bank account...adam was charged to superintend over the other creatures, if he failed his seed I am sure is not failing...

budaatum:

This is not what I read in my own book. God was not written to have been created from mud like adam was! But if that's what you read in your's, so be it to you.

Do go and check the duty adam was given though, to tend a garden, which is clearly not the duty given to the image of God's creation, which was, rule over the earth and the sea and dominate and subdue and be blessed. And neither was their pay the same pay - all the fruit bearing trees for one, and not some trees for the other.


Are you suggesting adam was predestined to live as an Ignorant slave in the garden of Eden?

If so, thankfully, eve objected and freed him.


Really? Then, use her own senses eve must be Perfection Plus for using her senses. And the creation in the image of God must be Perfection Plus Plus.

I sure know which I would rather be.


Really? You just have faith, and money that is not in your pocket appears because you have faith?

Me, I have to get off my faithless ass and work with the sweat of my brow and then at the end of the month money appears in my bank account from which I then use my ATM to transfer some of it into my pocket which I will then see in my pocket when I check my pocket.

But I guess that's because my God that requires me to work for the money in my pocket must not be as powerful as your God that puts money in your pocket because you have faith.

You very faithful freeze!


Freeze, what you are asking of buda is that buda abandon all the intelligence you claim buda has and become ignorant and enslaved in the Garden of Eden where buda's head can be filled with what your head is filled with.

To which buda's response is, "I would rather go and swim in nuclear waste". And to which I add, if buda does what you suggest, I will take that buda to the bottom of a river and bash that buda's head against a rock and drown that buda in nuclear waste and cut that buda into tiny bits and feed that dead buda to the fish! Though I might not do that last bit so as not to poison the poor fish.

Thou shalt not tempt buda with ignorance, freeze, for you shall not succeed!

budaatum:


It is very possible for you to analyse what I wrote without me editing it and reposting it, especially since I have created very many threads and posted many posts on the same topic.

All you need do is do as Christ said, become as a child and abandon all the rubbish you've been told to believe and use your own heart and soul and mind to ask and knock and seek for understanding. When you stop thinking as a child and reasoning as a child and stop seeing only a reflection as in a mirror and become a full grown eye opened reasoning adult who has put away childish ways, you will see clearly and fully know.

It is not easy, mind, and is in fact almost impossible as threading a camel through a needle's eye, but it can be done by those who really try.

It is however not possible for those who refuse to eat the fruits of trees of knowledge, because they are obviously lacking in the nutrition that eating fruits of knowledge gives one.

Lee onu ya! Onu ugba! I wanted to tell you not to bother editing it. Go and see my responses. Onu ugba!

elated177:


I wish it was possible for me to analyze what you quoted here. Could you edit and repost?

It is very possible for you to analyse what I wrote without me editing it and reposting it, especially since I have created very many threads and posted many posts on the same topic.

All you need do is do as Christ said, become as a child and abandon all the rubbish you've been told to believe and use your own heart and soul and mind to ask and knock and seek for understanding. When you stop thinking as a child and reasoning as a child and stop seeing only a reflection as in a mirror and become a full grown eye opened reasoning adult who has put away childish ways, you will see clearly and fully know.

It is not easy, mind, and is in fact almost impossible as threading a camel through a needle's eye, but it can be done by those who really try.

It is however not possible for those who refuse to eat the fruits of trees of knowledge, because they are obviously lacking in the nutrition that eating fruits of knowledge gives one.

budaatum:
I think it does make sense.

Evidence shows that some are created in God's image to rule and subdue and dominate and be blessed, while some are created naked from mud to slave in the Garden of Eden and not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for fear that they will die.

Thankfully, there's also a certain unbelieving eve who used her own senses to check if she would die if she ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil only to find it good for food and for opening eyes and for gaining wisdom and for freeing from slavery in Eden from where she went on to be self employed and populated the earth with humans who are now on the way to rule over and subdue and dominate the moon and Mars.

The question then becomes, are you created in God's Image or are you descendants of stupid ignorant adam, or at least use her own senses eve?

And note, "story", before anyone starts asking me to prove some imaginary made up God created some imaginary made up adam or imaginary made up eve or Image! For "story" it may be but evidence shows many are still programmed by it.

budaatum:
I think it does make sense.

Evidence shows that some are created in God's image to rule and subdue and dominate and be blessed, while some are created naked from mud to slave in the Garden of Eden and not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for fear that they will die.

Thankfully, there's also a certain unbelieving eve who used her own senses to check if she would die if she ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil only to find it good for food and for opening eyes and for gaining wisdom and for freeing from slavery in Eden from where she went in to be self employed and populated the earth with humans who are now on the way to rule over and subdue and dominate the moon and Mars.

The question then becomes, are you created in God's Image or are you descendants of stupid ignorant adam, or at least use her own senses eve?

Evidence? What evidence?

Gromilla010:


Eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad is the best thing that can happen to human because it will make you have compassion for your fellow human and be like gods(being spiritual) and free from slavery.

Now, isn't it funny you learned finally.

Isn't this what I said in the beginning and have repeated all along?

budaatum:
I think it does make sense.

Evidence shows that some are created in God's image to rule and subdue and dominate and be blessed, while some are created naked from mud to slave in the Garden of Eden and not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for fear that they will die.

Thankfully, there's also a certain unbelieving eve who used her own senses to check if she would die if she ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil only to find it good for food and for opening eyes and for gaining wisdom and for freeing from slavery in Eden from where she went in to be self employed and populated the earth with humans who are now on the way to rule over and subdue and dominate the moon and Mars.

The question then becomes, are you created in God's Image or are you descendants of stupid ignorant adam, or at least use her own senses eve?

This particular entity is lost and only the saving grace of Jesus can pick him out from the dungeon of self deception.

budaatum:
I think it does make sense.

Evidence shows that some are created in God's image to rule and subdue and dominate and be blessed, while some are created naked from mud to slave in the Garden of Eden and not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for fear that they will die.

Thankfully, there's also a certain unbelieving eve who used her own senses to check if she would die if she ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil only to find it good for food and for opening eyes and for gaining wisdom and for freeing from slavery in Eden from where she went in to be self employed and populated the earth with humans who are now on the way to rule over and subdue and dominate the moon and Mars.

The question then becomes, are you created in God's Image or are you descendants of stupid ignorant adam, or at least use her own senses eve?

It seems more are finally seeking understanding, though the person the response below was to wasn't in the end.

The story is more like programming, as in, how some want to create you. Any person with a brain would object to a God who lies that you would die if you eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil then you eat and do not die.

And before anyone claims adam and eve died when they ate, just you note what they achieved after eating and how long they lived after.

budaatum:
I think it does make sense.

Evidence shows that some are created in God's image to rule and subdue and dominate and be blessed, while some are created naked from mud to slave in the Garden of Eden and not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for fear that they will die.

Thankfully, there's also a certain unbelieving eve who used her own senses to check if she would die if she ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil only to find it good for food and for opening eyes and for gaining wisdom and for freeing from slavery in Eden from where she went in to be self employed and populated the earth with humans who are now on the way to rule over and subdue and dominate the moon and Mars.

The question then becomes, are you created in God's Image or are you descendants of stupid ignorant adam, or at least use her own senses eve?

budaatum:
I think it does make sense.

Evidence shows that some are created in God's image to rule and subdue and dominate and be blessed, while some are created naked from mud to slave in the Garden of Eden and not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for fear that they will die.

Thankfully, there's also a certain unbelieving eve who used her own senses to check if she would die if she ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil only to find it good for food and for opening eyes and for gaining wisdom and for freeing from slavery in Eden from where she went in to be self employed and populated the earth with humans who are now on the way to rule over and subdue and dominate the moon and Mars.

The question then becomes, are you created in God's Image or are you descendants of stupid ignorant adam, or at least use her own senses eve?

you still haven't proven how it makes sense you are beating about the bush!!!

So how does this your statement make sense
Because according to the bible both adam and eve ate the fruit of good and evil....So what did you mean that some were created naked to not eat the fruit of good of evil for fear of death?
If some were created in gods image then who created the others?

So you now agree that the devil does not exist.
I really did agree with you on this aspect since eve was a 2day old baby who actually doesn't know what is good and evil decided to taste the content of that fruit to know the outcome.
Based on your assumption it could be possible that adam didn't have a taste of that fruit.
Or eve prevented him from eating of that fruit of good and evil so she could use her knowledge to subdue and Dominate adam.

budaatum:

No, TenQ, it's not a contradiction, though I'm not averse to contradictions myself. After all it must be a contradiction that atheist me is quoting Bible.

Not a contradiction!?
What a joke!

budaatum:

I never claimed taxonomy is not science, TenQ. Just that using ones senses to investigate trumps just naming things.

One can name electricity for instance, but naming it does not mean one knows the science of making electricity.

Taxonomy starts with naming of living things. adam did just that well before eve was made...well before his fall.

budaatum:

Yuk! What are you? Don't you wonder why God created you with a mind instead of you being some God's useless tool?

Thankfully, you said "if", so God might not have created man. But assuming God did create man, why choose to accept the purpose of "put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it", when you can be "in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground"?

Would you not rather be the boss than the slave, TenQ?

If God created me to be a Car, my joy will be to obey His every touch and go where and how He wants me to go!

If God created me to be a Rocket, my joy will be to go in any direction he sends!

If God created me to be a submarine, I'll plunge as deep as He wants.

If God created me to be a missile, I'll detonate my cargo anywhere He directs.

See Buda!
This is were Sons of God (with free will) are different from those who place themselves on reject list.

How do you feel to a lawn that has other mind of its own except what you want it to be?
You own this pet that is uncontrollable: hasn't it conferred on itself the right of being Quarantined and Chained down like a wild animal?

That is why the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil gives you by CHOICE your INDEPENDENCE from both your Creator and His purpose for your life.


You see why I seek no independence from the One who made me!? My life would be purposeless without Him.

budaatum:

First. If you as far as you know, adam was the first to do taxonomy, you might easily see that eve was the first person to do science by using her senses to check what she'd been told instead of just ignorantly believing it.

Second. Knowledge of Good and Evil is indeed the knowledge of everything, TenQ, and only those intending to enslave one would deprive one of it least one be free to use one's senses like them. It is a fact that is glaringly obvious that those who eat the fruits of knowledge would be the lords of those who don't.

I know this is all impossible for you to consider because it sounds like I am telling you to worship a serpent, especially after centurys of you believing what you've been told instead of what you can see and read with your own eyes. This is why Jesus was very focused on opening eyes so you may use your own senses to check so you may know instead of making or allowing crap to be made up in your head for you to believe.

Fact is, adam and eve did not die when they ate the fruit they'd been told not to eat. And I bet if I told you you would surely die if you did something, and then you do that thing and do not die, you will certainly call me a liar. The question then becomes, who lied. Is it God, or is it those who wrote the book? Or would you want to claim evil doers are not capable of twisting things to their advantage despite claiming that is what I am doing?

God can not possibly be a slave owner. And a God who created humans in its own image to be fruitful and rule and subdue the earth would not demote said humans to slaves in a tiny garden. And sensible humans demoted in such a way would most certainly rebel unless they like being slaves.

Do know that belief is not the same as knowledge. And if you believe anything I have said in this thread then I have failed. Please first become as a child as Christ adviced, by which he meant abandon what you've been told to believe, and then go read the wonderful story of adam and eve as written in Genesis 1-5, and you might find that God is not asking you to be an ignorant slave but to be the God that God created you to be before some sneaky evil buggers demoted you to gardeners in their tiny garden and who can not say "Let there be light" without crying NEPA!

Unfortunately for you, well before eve ate of the fruit, adam was doing science!
Well before eve was created from adam, adam was versed in knowledge

Gen 2:19-20:
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them to adam to see what he would call them: and whatever adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for adam there was not found an help meet for him."



If the words of Christ meant anything to you, you wouldn't be an atheist: you would be a "little Christ "!

If you believed one tenth what you preach about Christ, the fruit would have been evident!

budaatum:


No hope, waiting for people to "show you" is what made you rightly abandon the religion in the first place, so why would you expect citing is what might make you comprehend? It is not people who can cite that can "show you" but you using your own heart and soul and mind to ask and knock and seek for understanding for and by yourself so you may see for yourself which I hope you are not saying bye to. Still, even if you are, others aren't, so I'll help you.

All the plagues God mounted on the Egyptians for enslaving the Israelites is condemnation. You would not claim you were being blessed if those plagues were inflicted on you for your behaviour, and would be wise to consider that behaviour condemned.

Also, Jesus saying, "Get thee behind me satan" can be considered as condemnation against slavery. If Jesus had bowed to Satan on the mountain he would have been Satan's slave which most would not consider a good thing.

And ignorant adam and eve nakedly tending a tiny proxy garden is slavery too considering the lofty task given to the humans created before them and in the image (in power too) of the God we read created them.

All these epistle and the question is still unanswered.... must be frustrating flipping Bible page to page and not seeing anything condemning it. I know that feeling

budaatum:


You sure love making up crap to believe instead of learning to know. I bet if we placed you in the Garden of Eden you'd be like adam, walking past the so called tree of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil afraid to pluck its fruit for fear you might surely die.

Perhaps learn from eve to use your senses to find out if you would surely die instead of believing crap.

Coming from someone who is ready to go hungry and starve for globo homo

You are the real slave

budaatum:


Odd thing is, this is clearly shown in the book then someone tells people adam and eve surely died and people disbelieve the evidence they witness with their own eyes and start spreading lies and ignorance as if they can not read how the same supposed dead adam and eve populated the earth.

We should of course begin with 'What is God', then What is 'Christ'.

Musicwriter, I want you to consider the book is not hiding the truth but actually revealing it. You, would be my example of this fact. If your eyes had not been opened by 'Christ', your 35 years of blindness would have been elongated.

The problem is the misinterpretation of the ancient meanings by Christians, beginning from Greco-Romans who were copying texts from foreign languages (Aramaic, Hebrew, Egyptian) belonging to foreign people they conquered. In the process, we lost to a big extent the pure true message the ancient people wanted to pass to humanity.

The ancient people who wrote the bible were meaning something else, while christians are interpreting something else today. That's the problem.

If someone read the bible without Christendom's preconception of what their church denominations believe the book to be saying, the true message would be clearer.

The bible would make people smart when the Genesis creation story interpreted correctly. But when interpreted wrongly (unfortunately it has), it would make people very stupid. That's why the Greco-Romans misinterpreted it and injected passages here and there to make people dumb in order to control the population in their colonies. The bible can both free someone or keep someone as perpetual slave. For Christians, the book has ended up making them slaves not free them. That's the real problem!!

budaatum:


Ponder it, then make up conspiracies in your head?

That's precisely what adam did that made him a naked ignorant slave in the Garden of Eden until use her senses eve decided to check the evidence for herself only to find she did not surely die in the day she ate what adam believed would kill him. She freed herself and her ignorant man from slavery and they went on to populate the earth, we read.

The "death" the Holy Book alluded to is not the "physical" death you're familiar with. adam and eve died spiritually - a worse death by all standards, the day they ate the forbidden fruit. You will not understand. So, let's focus on politics.

budaatum:


Why do you keep doing this workch? You keep saying "you guys", as if you can't see the individual! Perhaps you don't see or something, or how can I repeatedly be referring to believing adam as an ignorant stupid slave, and then claim one must believe instead of actually opening ones own eyes and other senses to check and see for for oneself? Is open your eyes and senses not the very first step in science? Can one do science without opening one's eyes to actually look and see? Can you not apply your 13 years of science instead of stupidly believing without actually checking your hypothesis? Do I need to post links of posts of mine where I claim believing without checking or observing, as you'd say, is ignorant and stupid?

The imaginary adam we read about believed without testing if his beliefs were true or not, and that's why he remained stupid and ignorant and enslaved in the Garden of Eden. eve, on the other hand, did science to check the hypothesis that states: "on the day that you eat you shall surely die". We shall consider what she discovered on testing once we get over your "you guys" hypothesis!

A hypothesis is not a belief. A belief is an untested hypothesis however. It's like hypothesising that [i]I. If we find the edge of earth, then it means that earth is flat (independent variable)[/i], and then not II. The higher the altitude we travel, the likely that we see that earth is flat (dependent variable), but instead believing the earth is flat. If buda does that with anything, and I mean anything at all, including ignorantly assuming anything about you without first checking, please command buda to shoot buda dead, because that buda does not deserve to live!

Please know that if I build a bridge on a belief that it would stand and span where I'm building it, I would not now be retired and enjoying what I got paid for building bridges! No one would have paid me to build an ordinary foot path on some stupid ignorant untested belief or an untested hypothesis!

Below is my response to a person who thinks one should believe physics. It might help you understand better. And I've added a link explaining how and why I think believing almost anything without bothering to ask and seek and knock is just dumb!

Do let know me please if you can see, though I can bet my very last pound that the fact I've written it in religionese would likely blind you!

https://www.nairaland.com/5123700/disbelieve-know

Dude, I am not in the mood for unnecessary arguments, especially about scientific methods that I understand.

Just believe whatever you want. It really doesn’t change anything man.

Cheers

budaatum:


And that's what we are here educating you is a wrong belief to have. However good it may seem being enslaved to the colonialists, self rule is so much far better than being a slave.

Just go read about ignorant naked enslaved adam, and compare it to what he went on to achieve after being liberated from slavery by use her own senses eve.

Some of us would rather starve to death than be slaves.

i am deeply shock and surprise you claim to have read

but i know it's a lie, because if you actually do, you will not write all this rubbish with boldness

budaatum:

And, first, I'd like to point out to you that we are exchanging understanding. I'm not one to be told what to think since I have a mind of my own and know how to use it.

We all miss things, so pointing out something someone might have missed is not trying to tell them what to think. Rather it's just showing them a piece of information they might not have taken into consideration while parsing the issue.

Now, if I tell you to "multiply, fill the earth and so on", I feel certain you'd see it as an instruction.

This statement already shows that you are already reading something foreign into the text. It really doesn't matter what I, as a 21st century person thinks the statement ought to mean, what matters is what the original Author of the text intended it to mean.

As I implied in my previous replies, whenever we try to impose our own lens onto the text, we inevitable read something foreign into it.
So except you can show using the text that the verb "barak - to bless" can have a lexical range that includes "instruction" and could be what the original author intended and how the first audience would have understood it, what you or I believe it should mean is really not that relevant.

Just to buttress the point a little, I think it's worth remembering that all literature is written against the backdrop of the culture in which it is written. This is very important, because to read any text with a different cultural context is to most likely read something into it that was not intended by the author. To illustrate this:Let's say I write something to you and say "Mehn, that flew by me". You automatically get what I mean cos we share the same cultural river. But someone living in the year 2500 CE can easily read our Nairaland chat of today and misunderstand that statement to mean we were talking about actual flying cars, because he/she is swimming in a different cultural river.
Another example would be, when during the blm protest, Trump said "When the looting start, the shooting starts". Everyone was up in arms screaming racism. I didn't get what was racist about the statement until I did a bit more digging because I swim in a different cultural river from the black Americans living in the state.

That's one of the reasons translating from one language to another is hard. Because you're not just translating words, you are also translating cultures.

Anyway that's a long winded way of saying, what you and I think a statement is saying doesn't really matter that much. What matters is what the author intended and how the original audience would have understood it.

Evidence also suggests that if you obey the instruction to "multiply, fill the earth and so on" you will be blessed and if you don't you won't be blessed.

Could you show where such a condition was set?

Unfortunately the be "blessed" is placed first so that connection is missed. America, China, Europe, for example, "multiply, fill the earth and so on" and are blessed, financially at least. Nigeria does not "multiply, fill the earth and so on" enough, so is not blessed. You might note this from all the wailing on Nairaland or check the average lifespan of the countries mentioned and compare it to Nigeria's.

Can you substantiate this using the text of the bible or the cultural context from the around the time period or cultural river?

Many would agree with you, but adam was clearly naked and kept ignorant and was working for slave wages of food and board.

Why do you think being naked is a bad thing? Just being curious.

What would constitute a slave's wage of food for an ancient Jewish reader?

And if you could indulge my question, pls how do you think an Israelite would have understood the garden of Eden?

Neither he nor eve were "multiply, fill the earth and so on" while they were tending the Garden of Eden.

Before knowing if they were indeed partakers of the blessing of " multiply,fill the earth and so on", we would first have to understand what it means. Because so far, it seems you have a different view of what this blessing entails.

'Bend the earthly resources to your use and need', which can only be done after acquiring knowledge about the earth. Those who do not eat fruits of knowledge can not "subdue the earth" nor can they "rule over it".

So how were they able to tend the garden and take care of the animals within it, if they had no knowledge had not yet acquired this knowledge you mentioned?

Different people at different times have understood the entire book differently, even amongst the Jews different understandings existed, but the first few chapters of Genesis in particular are of significant importance, most especially the story of the Garden of Eden, since it is the key to the entire Book.

Some have used the ideas in the text to enslave others. The Catholic Church, for instance, kept the Bible in a language the people could not read, which allowed the Church to (enslave, exploit), dictate to people. The slave owners in America followed it literally in keeping their slaves ignorant so they could easily be controlled. The makers of our own Nigerian almanjeris use the same principle to enslave almanjeris by insisting the Quran remain in a language its readers can not understand, and our education system follows suite though not intentionally. We are taught to work in the Garden of Eden instead of to "multiply, fill the earth and so on". It's why we are so unblessed (poor).

Jesus, on the other hand went about opening people's eyes and fed them fruits of knowledge, for only those who eat that fruit can possibly "multiply, fill the earth and so on", while those who don't eat the fruits of knowledge would be enslaved to those who do. He said, "don't you know you are gods", which is what you'd be if you realise you are created in God's image to "multiply, fill the earth and so on" instead of being put to work in the tiny Garden of Eden.

I specifically mentioned the Jews and Jesus for a reason. The context of the Bible is not determined by the Catholic church, Luther and the reformation, 21st century christians or 19th century slave owners.
The cultural context of the Bible is determined by the cultural river in which it was written in. And also since the entire bible points to Jesus, He's interpretation of what is written carries presidence over any of our ideas.

So if I may ask again, How do you think an ancient Jew of let's say Moses's time would have understood "to subdue the earth and to rule over it meant?
And how do you think Jesus in particular understood these texts?

In your previous you said "Many people have been studying(not just reading) these texts as far back as the second temple period(That's still thousands of years, granting the most liberal dating). And they have come out with an harmony across the text".

From the above I am assuming you are implying that one should therefore accept what they say instead of using your own God given heart and soul and mind and being, which I think would contradict the instruction Christ gave to ask and knock and seek for yourself, and would put to question the need for him to have sent you the Holy Spirit to minister to you since you can simply accept what you are told by the "Many people have been studying" for "thousands of years".

You assumed wrong sir/ma'am.
You told the other poster that there was a contradiction between genesis 1 & 2 and only by turning off one's brain and mind can one simply believe contradictions.

My statement was whether you really believe all the people spanning thousands of years spread across the globe who have dedicated their lives in studying this text and don't see a contradiction were simply turning off their brains and minds.

I made no assertion of whether they were right or wrong. It was simply a question of, do you really think these people including the gospel writers simple turned off their brains or do you think they were reading the text differently from how you were reading it and rather than finding a contradiction, they found a tension and harmony?
It was never a assertion of whether anyone was right or wrong.

I'll use an example to illustrate. Within the last few decades, there's been a growing number of Jesus mythicists amongst the general public. Even though almost no real historian save for Richard Carrier believes this to be true, there's a still a substantial amount of everyday people who believe Jesus is a mythical figure.
So I looked into their claims to know if there was any merit to it. I didnt just assume that they all didn't know what they were saying or they had no basis for believing what they believe.

Everyone has a basis for why they believe what they believe? That's never the question in my own understanding. The real question is, do their rationals have enough explanatory power to be the best possible explanation out of all the others.

Do note that Jesus spent a considerably amount of time being challenged by "Many people have been studying" for "thousands of years", and warned that they give stones instead of bread, hence, woe to them. He himself was crucified for using his own God given heart and soul and mind and being instead of accepting what he was told by the "Many people have been studying" for "thousands of years".

Okay so, Jesus's main opponents were the Pharisees. This group only emerged sometime during the intertestamental period(sometime during the 160s bce) , so that's not thousands of years.
Jesus' main challenge was against the oral tradition (the unwritten Torah).
Basically this were set of laws that were believed to have been given to Moses but we're not written down. This laws sort to regulate the Jewish people above and beyond what the Torah itself allowed.

Interestingly when challenged, Jesus usually pointed back to the first 2chapters of the Bible to counter them with " In the beginning" or pointed back to the Hebrew bible with statements like " isn't it written".

And that is exactly what I'm asking you to do. I'm asking you if you can substantiate your claims with the text itself. If what you are saying can be sustained by the bible itself without reading your own perspectives(as much as possible), I'm really willing to engage. There's always room for seeing something new.

I'm off to sleep. Will read your response when I wake up. And thanks tons for your patience and time.

No problems sir/ma'am. Mondays can be hectic sometimes. Hope your Monday was good

budaatum:

And, first, I'd like to point out to you that we are exchanging understanding. I'm not one to be told what to think since I have a mind of my own and know how to use it.

Now, if I tell you to "multiply, fill the earth and so on", I feel certain you'd see it as an instruction. Evidence also suggests that if you obey the instruction to "multiply, fill the earth and so on" you will be blessed and if you don't you won't be blessed. Unfortunately the be "blessed" is placed first so that connection is missed. America, China, Europe, for example, "multiply, fill the earth and so on" and are blessed, financially at least. Nigeria does not "multiply, fill the earth and so on" enough, so is not blessed. You might note this from all the wailing on Nairaland or check the average lifespan of the countries mentioned and compare it to Nigeria's.


Many would agree with you, but adam was clearly naked and kept ignorant and was working for slave wages of food and board. Neither he nor eve were "multiply, fill the earth and so on" while they were tending the Garden of Eden.


'Bend the earthly resources to your use and need', which can only be done after acquiring knowledge about the earth. Those who do not eat fruits of knowledge can not "subdue the earth" nor can they "rule over it".


Different people at different times have understood the entire book differently, even amongst the Jews different understandings existed, but the first few chapters of Genesis in particular are of significant importance, most especially the story of the Garden of Eden, since it is the key to the entire Book.

Some have used the ideas in the text to enslave others. The Catholic Church, for instance, kept the Bible in a language the people could not read, which allowed the Church to (enslave, exploit), dictate to people. The slave owners in America followed it literally in keeping their slaves ignorant so they could easily be controlled. The makers of our own Nigerian almanjeris use the same principle to enslave almanjeris by insisting the Quran remain in a language its readers can not understand, and our education system follows suite though not intentionally. We are taught to work in the Garden of Eden instead of to "multiply, fill the earth and so on". It's why we are so unblessed (poor).

Jesus, on the other hand went about opening people's eyes and fed them fruits of knowledge, for only those who eat that fruit can possibly "multiply, fill the earth and so on", while those who don't eat the fruits of knowledge would be enslaved to those who do. He said, "don't you know you are gods", which is what you'd be if you realise you are created in God's image to "multiply, fill the earth and so on" instead of being put to work in the tiny Garden of Eden.

In your previous you said "Many people have been studying(not just reading) these texts as far back as the second temple period(That's still thousands of years, granting the most liberal dating). And they have come out with an harmony across the text".

From the above I am assuming you are implying that one should therefore accept what they say instead of using your own God given heart and soul and mind and being, which I think would contradict the instruction Christ gave to ask and knock and seek for yourself, and would put to question the need for him to have sent you the Holy Spirit to minister to you since you can simply accept what you are told by the "Many people have been studying" for "thousands of years".

Do note that Jesus spent a considerably amount of time being challenged by "Many people have been studying" for "thousands of years", and warned that they give stones instead of bread, hence, woe to them. He himself was crucified for using his own God given heart and soul and mind and being instead of accepting what he was told by the "Many people have been studying" for "thousands of years".

I'm off to sleep. Will read your response when I wake up. And thanks tons for your patience and time.

SO THIS ANTI CHRIST IS STILL AWAKE

budaatum:


This is funny. I'll explain.

"Acceptance of claims" means, to believe, and anyone who does that has not at all done science, which means, use your senses, which is why a true scientific claim must be testable and repeatable, as Workch claimed. What's funny is that you and he are arguing for the exact same approach to living but would never notice, I bet, which is, believe the right thing.

Science is not about belief. Science is about you using your own senses to test to determine the truth. Its why so much is written about Christ opening people's eyes so that they may see, and once you learn to use your eyes, your heart and soul and mind might work too. Christ, in that sense, was a scientist. And he wasn't scripturally the first. Presented in the story of the Garden of Eden is adam believing that which was shown to be untrue by use her senses eve

"Seek and you shall find", someone is once written to have said, and not "let someone else seek for you and you just believe what they tell you to". Only a mentally incapacitated individual, to borrow a phrase, and a slave, would believe what they are told instead of what they perceive with their own 'Jesus' opened eyes. Such people remain enslaved and naked in Eden as opposed to use her senses to free herself and her man from slavery eve, whom we read did not "surely die" on the day that they ate, but went on to become self employed and populated the earth.

You said Scientifc claims being testable and repeatable. Lol!
Has the Big Bang been observed and repeated?
Who tested, observed and repeated the Big Bang? Why does science BELIEVE by faith that it happened?

Did any scientist test, observe and repeated micro evolution of larger animals and humans?
Did science not BELIEVE by faith that it happened and it’s true?

Did science create the laws of nature? Did science know the origin of the laws of gravity? But it believes by FAITH that it has always been there and will always behave the way it behaves to make mathematical and physical laws and relationships same?

Have you thought of what would happen if tomorrow the sun doesn’t rise or set as it always does for like a month? Would the scientific laws and theories hinged on solar energy remain same? But scientific relationships are built on the ASSUMPTIONS that everyday we wake up, we WOULD always see the sun rise and set and our laws work as we assumed. If the sun doesn’t come up, then the scientific laws would not work as we BELIEVE them to be.
Even when scientists conduct tests and come up with hypotheses, human wills, worldviews, biases and philosophy are applied to choose from alternative results to suit a particular intended result. Those often are not empirical methods.

You are wrong about science. And science having limitations in explaining things that are not materialistic in nature makes it weak and insufficient to discuss religion and the supernatural and God. Maybe you go back to the Lewontin quote and understand their a priori worldview and their avowed reason not to let the supernatural through the door.
Lol!

budaatum:


This is funny. I'll explain.

"Acceptance of claims" means, to believe, and anyone who does that has not at all done science, which means, use your senses, which is why a true scientific claim must be testable and repeatable, as Workch claimed. What's funny is that you and he are arguing for the exact same approach to living but would never notice, I bet, which is, believe the right thing.

Science is not about belief. Science is about you using your own senses to test to determine the truth. Its why so much is written about Christ opening people's eyes so that they may see, and once you learn to use your eyes, your heart and soul and mind might work too. Christ, in that sense, was a scientist. And he wasn't scripturally the first. Presented in the story of the Garden of Eden is adam believing that which was shown to be untrue by use her senses eve

"Seek and you shall find", someone is once written to have said, and not "let someone else seek for you and you just believe what they tell you to". Only a mentally incapacitated individual, to borrow a phrase, and a slave, would believe what they are told instead of what they perceive with their own 'Jesus' opened eyes. Such people remain enslaved and naked in Eden as opposed to use her senses to free herself and her man from slavery eve, whom we read did not "surely die" on the day that they ate, but went on to become self employed and populated the earth.

I only wish you had read those 2 quotes and digested each word and line.
You said so much much did nothing to grasp and comment on what I posted there.
That really is the problem.
Please check the claims of each line of the Lewontin quote and respond on the finality of proofs employed in sciences and the materialists a priori stance on the supernatural.

budaatum:


This is funny. I'll explain.

"Acceptance of claims" means, to believe, and anyone who does that has not at all done science, which means, use your senses, which is why a true scientific claim must be testable and repeatable, as Workch claimed. What's funny is that you and he are arguing for the exact same approach to living but would never notice, I bet, which is, believe the right thing.

Science is not about belief. Science is about you using your own senses to test to determine the truth. Its why so much is written about Christ opening people's eyes so that they may see, and once you learn to use your eyes, your heart and soul and mind might work too. Christ, in that sense, was a scientist. And he wasn't scripturally the first. Presented in the story of the Garden of Eden is adam believing that which was shown to be untrue by use her senses eve

"Seek and you shall find", someone is once written to have said, and not "let someone else seek for you and you just believe what they tell you to". Only a mentally incapacitated individual, to borrow a phrase, and a slave, would believe what they are told instead of what they perceive with their own 'Jesus' opened eyes. Such people remain enslaved and naked in Eden as opposed to use her senses to free herself and her man from slavery eve, whom we read did not "surely die" on the day that they ate, but went on to become self employed and populated the earth.

I think you are straining yourself a lot.
Without evidence, a god claim is equivalent to Flying Spaghetti Monster and Invisible Flying unicorn.

No reasonable person should take those claims seriously especially when they use them to tell you how to live your life.

I still need evidence that god exist. That’s the only way of establishing the truth and we will keep demanding it

The truth is when you found out that some one is way too smart, excellent or good for you appreciate and reward the person well but if you can't do so then allow the PERSON GO HIS WAY IN PEACE and get BUSY with more INTERESTING PEOPLE with his LIFE and don't try to paint the person black, blackmail his reputation or make him feel less which is what oyedepo and winners are guilty of because that is the foundation on which oyedepo built winners chapel so stop supporting evil because no human being in this earth is Jehovah almighty

budaatum:


Funny, if true. Winners must have learnt this from the owner of the Garden of Eden, who got pissed off when his staff decided to stop being ignorant slaves and gained knowledge and wisdom for themselves. We all have read how he threw a tantrum and cursed them and kicked them out of his garden because they got too smart for his liking. That is exactly the same thing you have described above!

The moral of the story is, remain an ignorant slave so your boss can keep you in employment, or get knowledge so you can become self employed like adam and eve did and who then went on to "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth", and populated the earth, so we read, with billions of humans, some of whom are now on the way to rule over Mars and Jupiter and Uranus, as they were originally commanded to do before some God decided to enslave them in ignorance in the Garden of Eden!

budaatum:


Good and hardworking men and women are very useful. A man would benefit from having a woman he can respect beside him instead of thinking she's only good for child rearing and cleaning house and ironing his shirts.

What many don't realise is how eve saved adam from slavery, and that Jesus would have been a carpenter saving wood if his mother Mary hadn't educated him. Or don't you know she could read and taught her Son Jesus to read too?

"Both male and female created He them equally", it says in my own book, until some decided to portray Wisdom seeking eve as one tempted by a serpent as if snakes talk!

If eve hadn't sought knowledge and found Wisdom, that dumb adam would still be an ignorant naked slave in the Garden of Eden! And if Mary hadn't taught her Son to read the world might have still been waiting for a Messiah to save its sorry ass!

Please educate your daughters so they don't end up with pigs and curse you.

From the second paragraph till the end, I won't go into that.

Men and women are both useful to society. Men and women are equal in the sense that we are of the same race and specie and as such we have certain similarities. Buh men and women are also uniquely different in other ways. Men cannot give birth or breast feed or menstrate etc. While men have their own innate abilities which you should know. Men are superior physically, analytically and psychologically amongst others than most women. These gives men some advantage above women.

So we are equal in the sense that we are all part of the human race and specie like other animals that have their Male and female kinds but we also have our unique characteristics as males and females.

budaatum:


The facts just do not support your position.

No God gives anyone the "opportunities" to lead. What you are at best given is the potential to learn to be a leader, and after much learning you just might be able and competent to lead others.

We read even in the God Book of elder brothers being led by their younger brothers, and lowly shepherds leading mighty nations and kingdoms. Even Moses began from the most humble beginnings, as did Mohammed and Jesus Christ, and their opportunity was that of being able to learn, the potential we all have these days.

I am saying all this because of the fallacy of your destiny not being in your hands which is not true. You would not believe but despite however you might assume I may feel about your unwillingness to learn because you pressume to know it all already, I will say again that my faith that you may be a great leader in is immense, but first must you learn to lead yourself. And it starts by being honest and not lying to oneself or others just so one might seem smart when in fact one just is very stupid and ignorant

Funny. Here's one I just completed about claiming to know how Mars came into being, or how the moon and the sun came into being, or how Uranus came into being.

budaatum:


Are you familiar with the hymn All things great and wonderful?

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
He made them, high or lowly,
And ordered their estate.

Look it up. You'd find the The second verse above that supports your position of "privilege" tends to disappear from modern hymn books.

The reason is that it is not true. No one is priviledged to lead. Those who lead you and whom you follow are those whom you look up to and think are superior to yourself, and looking up to them is either your personal choice - if you freely choose to look up to them and be led by them, or you are their slave if they have deprived you of the information that will enable you to make a choice and lead yourself, a la, adam, again, and the poor Hausas whom you claim are okay with Fulani dominance of their entire life.

Some choose instead to make themselves lookuptoable, as in, they do the work to become fishers of people and lead. And they, like proper leaders, empower others to fish for people and become leaders too. The entire life of Jesus Christ you claim to worship instead of learn about and from, is a lesson in becoming a leader, unlike the God they wrote supposedly enslaved adam in the Garden of Eden, I must insist! That's why Jesus went about opening your eyes so you may see where you are going and where you are leading others to instead of keeping you ignorant and naked and enslaved and blind in the Garden of Eden.

The eyes are to see where you are going, Jesus meant. If your eyes do not work, none of your senses will work and you will be enslaved in ignorance and unable to see where you are going and be unable to lead yourself or others. So shine your eyes!

Or is that not so, Shadeyinka, that it is the Spirit that led you here and that you have followed so that you may learn (be taught is the proper expression since it is against your will to learn!), to become a leader instead of thinking you are destined to be a follower?

I am not against the fact that to lead successfully you must first learn to lead yourself.
I have spoken from the point of view of the scripture:

1 Corinthians 4:7
"For what gives you the right to make such a judgment? What do you have that God hasn't given you? And if everything you have is from God, why boast as though it were not a gift?"

From this point of view, leadership is a privilege given by God. Since inception of Nigeria, we have had less than 20 Presidents out of a population of 200-300 million. It is a great privilege to lead as a President. Some people strive for it with every resources they have such as MKO Abiola, but never get it. It is a privilege to be a Father for not everyone who has a wife can father a child.

God gives opportunities for us to lead at whatever the capacity and at our level, we can use the opportunity well or we can waste or squander or even reject such opportunities: that is left to us as humans to do. But it doesn't change the fact that God gives us OPPORTUNITIES to be an elder brother, a team leader, a father, a head of department, head of centers, directors, chairman, governor, senator or even president according to 1 Corinthians 4:7