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Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 12:37pm On Aug 04, 2023
Maynman:
There is no Christianity in 1AD.

All your manuscripts read CHRESTIANS.

All your gospels are written by UNKNOWN AUTHORS.
So then who are Ignatius, polycarp and papias of herapolis.
Are they chrestians?
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 12:34pm On Aug 04, 2023
The topic of this thread should be changed to historicity of 1st century AD Christianity.

Seems mindhacker has given up while maynman is loosing steam and running out of ideas.

Call your fellow atheist for help and let me help them reformat their ignorant brain.

It's a job I love to do.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 12:31pm On Aug 04, 2023
Maynman:
When are you going to look up the israelite god, yahweh Wikipedia? Or world history?

https://www.worldhistory.org/Yahweh/
We talking about 1st century AD Christian history here.
If u admit defeat, I will move to your next topic - Who is Yahweh.

I'm very much happy to cure your ignorance of Yahweh just as I've done a very good job formatting your brain on historicity of 1st century Christianity.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 12:27pm On Aug 04, 2023
Another account of James death was given by Clement of Alexandria, a Christian theologian and philosopher.

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 12:24pm On Aug 04, 2023
We have other independent sources of the death of James brother of jesus and they all similar to the description gave by Josephus.
First is hegessipus, a Christian historian in early church history.

He was called “Righteousness” and Oblias, in Greek meaning “Bulwark of the People.” James was revered as a good man even by those in the priestly class who did not believe his brother was the Messiah. In order to keep the Nazarene sect from spreading, the priests decided to implore James to denounce his brother publicly before the people. During Passover in c. 62 with tens of thousands of pilgrims in the city:

“…they (the priests) assembled and said to James: “We call on you to restrain the people, since they have gone astray after Jesus believing him to be the Christ. We call on you to persuade all who come for the Passover concerning Jesus, since all of us trust you. We and the entire populace can vouch for the fact that you are righteous and take no one at face value. So do persuade the crowd not to err regarding Jesus….So stand on the parapet of the temple where you can be clearly seen from that height and your words be heard by all the people with all the tribes and Gentiles too who are gathered for the Passover.” So the scribes and Pharisees made James stand on the temple parapet and they shouted to him, “O righteous one, whom we all ought to believe, since the people are going astray after Jesus who was crucified, tell us, what does the door of Jesus mean?” James replied with a loud voice, “Why do you ask me about the Son of Man? He is sitting in heaven at the right hand of the Great Power and he will come on the clouds of heaven.” Many were convinced and rejoiced at James’ testimony crying, “Hosanna to the Son of David.” Then the scribes and Pharisees said to each other, “We made a bad mistake in providing such testimony to Jesus, but let us go up and throw him down so that they will be afraid and not believe him.” And they cried out, “Oh, oh, even the just one has gone astray!”….So they went up and threw down the righteous one. Then they said to each other, “Let us stone James the Just,’” and they began to stone him since the fall had not killed him. But he turned and knelt down, saying, “I implore you, O Lord, God and Father, forgive them. They do not know what they are doing.” While they were pelting him with stones, one of the priests…cried out, “Stop! What are you doing? The righteous one is praying for you.” Then one, a laundryman, took the club that he used to beat out clothes and hit the Just on the head.

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15:
Maynman:
The james part, you yourself said the “christ” is an alteration.
“ Jesus Christ in its Greek form was altered by a Christian scribe at some point in antiquity, as Josephus, a Jew, would not have said, "He was the
Christ."
While this passage may have been altered somewhat”
The Christ part I said was ammended refers to the Jesus story NOT THAT OF JAMES story. The accurate passage of Jesus story was later discovered and was found Josephus didn't call Jesus Christ which would have been an aberration anyway.

Stop putting words into my mouth.

This is genuine. Those exact sentence 'Jesus who was called Christ' was found in all manuscripts of the passage...Greek or any other language.

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 11:37am On Aug 04, 2023
Maynman:
You are the one defending rubbish, you yourself said “christ” was an interpolation yet you are using that line OUT OF THE WHOLE BOOK to defend your jewish deity.

Josephus refers to the death of James, brother of Jesus, in Antiquities XX.9.1. In the same paragraph, he also refers to Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest.

I want you to see the big picture, josephus was writing about judas of Galilee, how will you write one line of a person in a story and you don’t talk about the person again,THINK NA
These are definitely not interpolations.
These are credible writings of Josephus confirmed by emeritus theology scholars including non biblical ones.
If u have a problem with the writings, take it up with them not me.

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15:
Maynman:
How many James were talked about in the book?
You are reading one page out of a whole book.


After reading the rest of the text of this passage we find that the Jews were so angry about the stoning of James that they demanded that King Agrippa fire Ananus. Why would the Jews be angered over the killing of a Christian, since Christians were seen as heathens by the Jews?
Finally, the Jesus mentioned in the passage was in fact one “Jesus, the son of Damneus” in the last line. The name Jesus (Ἰησοῦ) was a very common name, especially in the 1st century CE which lends to the confusion.
Continue with the mental gymnastics. Laslas u will be alright.
U initially claimed James that was stoned was related to Judas of Galilee, now he's related to Jesus son of damneus.
Pele, it's not easy defending foolishness. U must look foolish for it to make sense.

I already dealt with Jesus son of damneus, I won't be repeating myself.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 11:04am On Aug 04, 2023
Maynman:
Yes read it.
Who are his sons, how did they die.

Josephus book was about judas of galilee. The early church fathers use josephus book alot.

Who did you think did those altering?
Gamaliel spoke about Judas of Galilee when addressing the apostles. So he couldn't have been Jesus Christ.

Acts 5
33 When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death. 34 But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35 Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36 Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 [b]After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. [/b]38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

40 His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 10:58am On Aug 04, 2023
Maynman:
Read your own screenshot.

Judas of galilee was a zealot, those that died besides iesus christ are zealots 😂
Are u this dumb....Jeeez. who am I dealing with here.
So because the the sons of Judas were killed. Every James that dies in Josephus report must be the son of Judas of Galilee.

I brought Josephus account of how James son of Judas was killed which is independent of how James brother of jesus Christ was killed.
One was crucified, the other was stoned.
One was killed on order of Alexander, the other was on the order of Ananias the high priest.
The death of one led to the removal of the high priest.

How are the same personhuh? Are u a retard or something.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 10:42am On Aug 04, 2023
Maynman:
Josephus was writing about judas of Galilee and his family, the James and simon that was killed were his sons.
Get knowledge of the whole book not just a part to understand the book, josephus was writing about a violent group.
James and Simons were Zealots, more specific they are sicarii.
Josephus wasnt confused like u. He knew the difference between James brother of jesus Christ and James son of Judas. He wrote about them separately.
U are the one doing a forceful merger of 2 characters into 1. Thats a binitarian concept, where did u get it from.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 10:38am On Aug 04, 2023
Maynman:
Josephus was writing about judas of Galilee and his family, the James and simon that was killed were his sons.
Get knowledge of the whole book not just a part to understand the book, josephus was writing about a violent group.
James and Simons were Zealots, more specific they are sicarii.
When u see the truth and denies it by creating an alternate delusion. Then u crossing over to the psychotic world.
Here's what Josephus wrote about Judas of Galilee and his sons.

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 3:01am On Aug 04, 2023
MindHacker9009:
Lets just open it all up here once and for all.


The Antiquities of the Jews, Latin Antiquitates Judaicae, an account of Jewish history from its early beginnings to the revolt against Rome in ad 66, written in Greek in about ad 93 by Flavius Josephus, a general in the Jewish army who defected to Rome. His writings are not always accepted as totally reliable.
Source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Antiquities-of-the-Jews
Actually the biggest evidence of Jesus in Josephus report is not the account of Jesus himself which has been bugged with controversy and scholarly dispute for years.
But the account Josephus gave about Jesus brother, James is the stronger validation of Jesus.
Virtually all scholars agreed that it was an authentic source and not an interpolation.
If we accept the scholars report, then either Jesus Christ is a true historical figure or Josephus made it up.
And this brings us to the apostolic fathers, and other non biblical historicity of Jesus outside of antiquity of the Jews by Josephus.

Infact, Josephus report isn't the earliest historicity of Jesus that we have.

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 2:42am On Aug 04, 2023
MindHacker9009:
Lets just open it all up here once and for all.

1
The Antiquities of the Jews, Latin Antiquitates Judaicae, an account of Jewish history from its early beginnings to the revolt against Rome in ad 66, written in Greek in about ad 93 by Flavius Josephus, a general in the Jewish army who defected to Rome. His writings are not always accepted as totally reliable.
Source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Antiquities-of-the-Jews
There's no doubt that Josephus wrote about Jesus Christ in his book the antiquities of the Jews.
Now his two books have been critiqued by scholars and the general consensus of most scholars– Christian and non-Christian – is that the passage that mentions Jesus Christ in its Greek form was altered by a Christian scribe at some point in antiquity, as Josephus, a Jew, would not have said, “He was the Christ.”
While this passage may have been altered somewhat, it still retains contains an authentic reference to Jesus at its core, and scholars for years proposed reconstructions of how it originally read.
Then, in the 1970’s, an Arabic version of this passage was discovered and published that did not contain the pro-Christian interpolations.

Now this rendition didn't say Josephus believed Jesus resurrected but simply reported that Jesus disciples claimed he resurrected. He was simply writing down what he heard regarding claims made the disciples.
There's nothing to suggest he believed Jesus actually resurrected.

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 1:35pm On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
He never mentioned james the just.

Josephus is writing about the intrigue and betrayals surrounding the accession to the High Priesthood, with one called Jesus, son of Damneus, eventually becoming the successful contender. In the middle of this chapter we learn that Ananus took advantage of the absence of the Roman Procurator to execute James, brother of Jesus. Except for the words “the one called Christ”, a reference to Jesus Christ just does not make sense here. Moreover, the book was written for Roman pagans, who would have been perplexed by a reference to “the one called Christ”, when they almost universally knew of no such Jesus called Christ and would not have understood the notion of a “Christ” (Messiah).

The words “the one called Christ” are probably not authentic, being a later Christian interpolation that added apparent historicity to the Christian narrative.
😂🤣😂😅

Which one should we believe...Christ mentioned here is referring to Jesus son of damneus or Christ was a later interpolation. Which one is your confused brain saying is true.

Which Jesus did Josephus say is Christ.

James who was killed by Ananais was called brother of jesus Christ and not son of Judas of Galilee. Even a child understand it.

Seriously, u reason like a 6 yr old child. Your intellectual depth is suspect.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 1:22pm On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
Who is the father of James in the josephus book 😂

All the copies we have of this book is from Eusebius, some parts of these books has been confirmed to be altered, by who? For what? grin
Which James are u blabbering about.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 1:21pm On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
I didn’t bring any “james the just” in.

In the josephus book, james and simon are sons of judas of Galilee, your “james the just” is a concept created in the New Testament.
Why did Josephus mention James the brother of jesus in the antiquities of the jews
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 1:16pm On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
Who is the father of this James?

All copies we have of josephus is from master forger eusebius.

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 1:09pm On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
I am saying, judas of Galilee is the father of james and simon, mehannam is his grandson.
Josephus was talking about Judas of Galilee not your Iesus chrestus.

The early church fathers use josephus work to write and edit the New Testament. They quoted it regularly.

Iesus chrestus doesn’t exist!
If Judas of Galilee is not related related to James the just, then I don't understand his relevance here.
Why did u bring him here.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 12:09pm On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
Who is the father of this James?

All copies we have of josephus is from master forger eusebius.
Are u suggesting this Judas is the father of James the just.
Your answer is in the bible.
Seriously u are too dull to engage in deep cerebral intellectual and thought provoking debates. All u do is run all over the place with shallow claims.

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 11:28am On Aug 03, 2023
MindHacker9009:
You have now run out your steam of your deception and it's your eyes that needs to be cured of your own deception.

The help you cure your eyes of deception let us start with the first Jewish historian Christians quote and you have also quoted as a historical reference to the existence of Jesus Christ in the 1st century.

This Jesus son of Shaphat around the same time as Jesus Christ mentioned by the Jewish first century hostorian Flavius Josephus, who caused the Jews to flee to the camp of the Romans, why is this major event not in the New Testament?

y
Sources: https://ia800309.us.archive.org/17/items/cu31924074297205/cu31924074297205.pdf
Jesus son of damneus was the high priest who replaced Ananus son of Ananus after the later was removed by herod aggripa 2.
Why was ananus removed?
because he ordered the execution of James the brother of Jesus of Nazareth (James the Just).
This occurred after a large number of Jews complained and petitioned the king.

So the question is how did the brother of an imaginary Jesus got executed by a well known historical public figure. Will u say ananus and James were also imaginary.

Mindhacker, over to u.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15:
MindHacker9009:
You have now run out your steam of your deception and it's your eyes that needs to be cured of your own deception.

The help you cure your eyes of deception let us start with the first Jewish historian Christians quote and you have also quoted as a historical reference to the existence of Jesus Christ in the 1st century.

This Jesus son of Shaphat around the same time as Jesus Christ mentioned by the Jewish first century hostorian Flavius Josephus, who caused the Jews to flee to the camp of the Romans, why is this major event not in the New Testament?
." - The Jewish war 1st Century
Sources: https://ia800309.us.archive.org/17/items/cu31924074297205/cu31924074297205.pdf
Now atheist and anti Christians have the penchant of attributing anybody called Jesus in the 1st century to Jesus Christ.

Most of what we know of 1st century Jewish history came from Josephus writings.
Joesphus mentioned up to 20 characters named Jesus in his book. This include Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus son of damneus, Jesus son of Gamaliel, Jesus son of Thebouthi, your own Jesus son of shaphat.
Desperately searching for link btw these Jesus will serve u no purpose but makes u more confused because u will not be able to tie loose ends to bring a convincing evidence.

Now I will be talking about Jesus son of damneus next.

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15:
MindHacker9009:
You have now run out your steam of your deception and it's your eyes that needs to be cured of your own deception.

The help you cure your eyes of deception let us start with the first Jewish historian Christians quote and you have also quoted as a historical reference to the existence of Jesus Christ in the 1st century.

This Jesus son of Shaphat around the same time as Jesus Christ mentioned by the Jewish first century hostorian Flavius Josephus, who caused the Jews to flee to the camp of the Romans, why is this major event not in the New Testament?


Sources: https://ia800309.us.archive.org/17/items/cu31924074297205/cu31924074297205.pdf
U mentioned why the NT made no mention of the Jewish first century war.
By now the answer is clear.
The New testaments events occurred prior to the jewish-roman war.
Jesus and Paul's ministry all occured btw 30- 60AD. The war started 66 AD.

The acts of apostles mentioned the last king of the Judea province king Herod Agrippa 2 who was actually the one reigning when the war broke out in 66AD.

As at the time he was talking to Paul in acts 26 which was around 60AD, the war was yet to begin.
The same reason the 2nd temple destruction wasn't mentioned in the NT. It occured in 70 AD.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 11:01am On Aug 03, 2023
MindHacker9009:
You have now run out your steam of your deception and it's your eyes that needs to be cured of your own deception.

The help you cure your eyes of deception let us start with the first Jewish historian Christians quote and you have also quoted as a historical reference to the existence of Jesus Christ in the 1st century.

This Jesus son of Shaphat around the same time as Jesus Christ mentioned by the Jewish first century hostorian Flavius Josephus, who caused the Jews to flee to the camp of the Romans, why is this major event not in the New Testament?

"But before he could speak to them, the most warlike of the
insurgents made a sally upon them with their arms ; their leader
was one whose name was Jesus, the son of Shaphat, the captain
of a band of robbers." - The Jewish War 1st Century
"Jesus and his men led off to the city, and rejoiced as if
they had taken them in battle and not by surprise.
Now the elders of the people, and such as seemed
of principal authority among them, fearing what would be
the issue of the matter, fled to the camp of the Romans :
and taking their king mth them, fell down before Vespa-
sian as suppliants, and besought him not to despise
them, nor to impute the madness of a few to the whole
city, but to spare a people that had ever been friendly to
the Romans, and to bring the authors of this revolt to
punishment, who had hitherto so watched them, that
though they had long been anxious to give the Romans the
security of their right hands, they had not yet found an
opportunity to do so." - The Jewish war 1st Century
Sources: https://ia800309.us.archive.org/17/items/cu31924074297205/cu31924074297205.pdf
So many flaws in your argument.
Jesus of shaphat couldn't have been a contemporary of Jesus Christ if he actually fought in the Jewish-roman war in 1st century. This war was btw 66AD to 70 AD. This was more than 30 yrs after the life of Jesus Christ.

Vespusian wasn't in Judea during the time of jesus Christ. He was in Rome during the ministry of Jesus.
He was drafted to Judea from North Africa to crush the Jewish revolt in 66 AD.

If Jesus son of shaphat campaigned against vespesian in Judea, then he definitely wasn't a contemporary of Jesus.

This is what Josephus wrote about Jesus son of shaphat.

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 10:02am On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
Scammed cheesy

Focus on him and stop telling me lol
Don't quote me unless I mention u.
I won't reply u.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 10:00am On Aug 03, 2023
MindHacker9009:
Lets start with this around the same time as your invented Jesus Christ in the first century.

Who was Jesus son of Shaphat around the same time as Jesus Christ mentioned by the Jewish first century hostorian Flavius Josephus, who caused the Jews to flee to the camp of the Romans, why is this major event not in the New Testament?

"But before he could speak to them, the most warlike of the
insurgents made a sally upon them with their arms ; their leader
was one whose name was Jesus, the son of Shaphat, the captain
of a band of robbers." - The Jewish War 1st Century
"Jesus and his men led off to the city, and rejoiced as if
they had taken them in battle and not by surprise.
Now the elders of the people, and such as seemed
of principal authority among them, fearing what would be
the issue of the matter, fled to the camp of the Romans :
and taking their king mth them, fell down before Vespa-
sian as suppliants, and besought him not to despise
them, nor to impute the madness of a few to the whole
city, but to spare a people that had ever been friendly to
the Romans, and to bring the authors of this revolt to
punishment, who had hitherto so watched them, that
though they had long been anxious to give the Romans the
security of their right hands, they had not yet found an
opportunity to do so." - The Jewish war 1st Century
Sources: https://ia800309.us.archive.org/17/items/cu31924074297205/cu31924074297205.pdf
Now I will cure your eyes of the deception uve been fed with. The cure of your heart is left to u.
However, u will do well to go thru this present post because I will not repeat myself.
If u raise a point already answered- which will definitely happen because it's all about Christianity in the first century, I will simply refer u to my previous answer.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 9:57am On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
You can only deceive yourself.

Look up hypsistos, it was the sect that became the Catholic of today wink
Nonsense as usual.
However let me focus on the other guy
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 9:23am On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
There was no christianity in 1st AD, even your earliest New Testament said “Chrestians”.
I'm done with u.
Let me focus on that other guy.
He also needs enlightenment. Don't be selfish.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 8:56am On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
Are you blind, i asked you to Tell me the religion of Alexander the great
Answer it yourself. Bring your wack conspiracy nutjobs here yourself.
Except u telling me Alexander the Great existed in the 1st century AD, I won't indulge in your whataboutism.

I'm here to discuss what happened in 1st century AD.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 8:54am On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
Even the gospels were written by unknown people and it was in second century that this SAME iraeneus with other church members assigned name to them.

If you not that you are dumb, if the books themselves were not written by the apostles, then how did iraeneus and other early church fathers coined “apostolic fathes”, how did they arrive at 5?
Think na


Look up “hypsistos”, it was mentioned so many times in the New Testament
Who was papias of herapolis who died in 130 AD.
He lived well into the 2nd century.

I thought Romans only invented church leaders in the 1st century. How come they allowed him to exist into the 2nd century.
Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 8:48am On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
Tell me the religion of Alexander the great
Are u blind, I asked of yahadut...tell me it's meaning in Hebrew.
Anyway, I don't have your time

Christianity EtcRe: ******************************** by SIRTee15: 8:46am On Aug 03, 2023
Maynman:
That’s because you lack knowledge of what a sungod is.
So Paul mentioned elohim, Torah and Messiah to herod aggripa 2 who understands Jewish religion, and u thought Herod interpreted it as sun god.
U must think everyone is as dumb as yourself.

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