₦airaland Forum

sonmvayina:
You really need to learn..

https://www.jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/isaiah-53-a-jewish-perspective/

Before you start pulling absurds article from the Internet..

Even the link u brought admit the passage could be about a Messiah who will die for the sins of the people , it only argued it's not Jesus Christ.

Look here I'm an open guy.
If U tell me Isaiah 53 isn't about Jesus, maybe I will listen to U and we can have a debate about it.

But to tell me isaiah 53 isn't about a Messiah who will die for the transgression of the world is being unnecessary obstinate and I will simply ignore U.

Qasim6:
Lol

You are only making a fool of yourself, you are not exposing anything.

it is in our source (Hadith) that there are different readings of the Qur'an going straight back to the prophet.


You should drink water and rest!

So Qur'an recitation is no longer letter for letter, word for word anymore.

ahmedio2017:
Stop deceiving yourself, even your forefathers knew that Quran is only one...

So question is...
someone who memorised the Walsh quran, is he allowed to recite it in the amongst those who memorised the hafs quran.
Will he be corrected multiple times when those pronouns and adjectives don't correlate.

Qasim6:
Here I am thinking you will bring something like an interpolation like the pericope adulterae, or something that will destroy our doctrines like 1John 5:7 (the nonsense there are 3 in heaven....)

All these things you are pointing out do not negate our narrative of how the Qur'an was revealed and preserved.

Keep labouring in vain, no go warm eba chop.

So Qur'an is no longer word for word dictation of Allah anymore.
Abi Allah dictated twice to Muhammed.
U people go change goalpost tire.
Pericope aldultrae and 1 John 5.7 interpolation.is only found in translation that came from the Latin vulgate eg KJV.
Translation from codex sinaticus don't have it. Also the Peshitta, Coptic, gothic, Armenian and Ethiopian bible- the garima gospel don't have it.
The word of God in the bible hasn't been changed.

flokii:
Setting up a business in a Free Zone is a different ball game entirely from producing locally.. Free Zones are exempted from all the necessary checks, regulations, taxes, fines, etc. from the Government of Nigeria unlike those outside the Free Zones (within Nigerian Customs territory).
Don't worry, let Mobil complete their refinery, then you'd understand the difference in classification.

As it stands now, we consider petroleum products coming from Dangote Refinery as imported products that attract import duty and levy, unless the Customs guys decide to do otherwise

So are U saying dangote is not refining fuel but using back door to import fuel into the country?
Is that what U saying ?

So according to the writer, it's better for FG to be subsidising fuel from foreign countries than fuel produced locally
Whether we like it or not, FG will continue to subside fuel for a very long time to come.
If the writer believes it's better for the cash crunch FG to send our money abroad, then I won't blame people who insults Yoruba people as elenu meji.

Zwooks:
Many Nigerians jumping on popular opinions do not even know what they are defending Dangote about. Tinubu has weighed the risks associated with the condition and realized how dangerous it is for the country. It is total enslavement of the country to a single individual which he is trying to protect against but dumb Nigerians with their ignorance will not patiently learn facts before fighting

Keep supporting your clueless and incompetent Tinubu.
Same abrupt and disastrous decision he made with floating the naira and ending fuel subsidy is what he's about to make again.
Know this now, if that refinery goes down, lots of banks are going down with it.
Banks recklessly loaned dangote billions of dollars tied to that refinery.
If that refinery crash and we continue to import fuel, the naira is crashing with it.
The fate of Nigerian economy is tied to the viability of that refinery. If that refinery fails, Nigerian economy will continue to suffer until another refinery comes up maybe in 5-7 yrs time.

Tinubu should lay aside his greed and selfishness, he should continue where previous govt stopped and ensure the refinery is completed.
The govt can buy out more stakes in the refinery or even make if public and bring in other investors to end Dangote's monopoly, BUT THAT REFINERY MUST WORK.

WAITING FOR ANOTHER REFINERY TO COME ON BOARD IS NOT AN ALTERNATIVE. NIGERIA HAS WAITED TOO LONG FOR THIS REFINERY AND NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO START QUESTIONING MONOPOLISTIC TENDENCIES OF DANGOTE.
IT'S TOO LATE FOR THAT NOW.

malali:
You miss the point. Congrats on building a refinery. But dont force your refinery on our national wealth. Nigerian crude oil belongs to 300 million Nigerians.
Trying to force himself into the food chain of the whole country is what we are against. We are against i must buy crude oil from you and i must sell petrol to you.
That's not business, that's Mafia/Cartel Vibes.......No one should treat an elected Government like that. Is he above the Government ?

So we should continue to import fuel? because that's the only feasible alternative.

If govt have issue with dangote, they should buy out the refinery or make it public n bring other investors.
But that refinery must work. Enough of fuel importation.

Biodun556:
Nigerians who supporting Dangote don't know much about what he is asking for

Idiots like U is the reason some fools insults Yoruba.
Dangote that U previously said he's God sent, all of a sudden is asking for too much
Elenu meji, neither here nor there.
Next time, just say I'm for tinubu's incompetent government. any direction Tinubu's govt face, na that direction me too face.
Nobody will kill U for being honest and supporting your belly.

spiSeyi:
Aisha Yesufu is also a Batist . You might not like PBAT but he's not like other vegetables that we previously had as presidents and won't tolerate any form of monopoly that brought down our economy to this stage. How I wish the emergency lovers & Sympathizers of Dangote can take a moment to have a rethink.
1. How did we benefit from Dangote's homemade cement? His cement is even more expensive than the imported ones.
2. His fertilizers is as expensive as the imported ones?
3. Dangote was part of those who caused the avoidable debt we have as a nation. Emefiele & PMB had to borrow loans to subsidized the USD for Dangote to build his refinery.
4. when the national treasure was run dry bcs of government pet like him, the PMB administration had to use our crude to borrow loans in advance from AFDB. And that's why Nigeria will have to pay the debt with 40-55% of its crude
5 The same greedy Dangote wanted to buy crude in Naira sell in USD rate for we the masses, which is where he had issues with PBAT.
The truth is Dangote can't thrive elsewhere except in a corrupt system that stylishly support monopoly because of tribalism and personal interests. Let him try other countries (after all his wealthy friend has taunted him and the question is: is his wealthy friend has wealthy as him ), You might hate PBAT for now but he is all out to reform and break every form of spoon feeding few individuals with the national wealth.
Dangote knew that there are competitive days ahead bcs the likes of Elumelu is also planning to set up his refinery and some India investors. Dangote is pained because it's no longer business as usual.

So we should wait another 5 or 10 yrs for others to build refinery b4 we end importation of fuel.
Don't worry naira go reach 5000 per dollar by then. Then we will see the foolishness of leaders u supporting as they impoverish the masses due to their greed.

Dangote refinery must work now. Either they allow him do his job or buy it out and make it work.
Nigeria can't wait for another donkey years for others to build refinery .

adeniyi65:
I'm neither atheist nor theist. I care less about religion or if God exist or not. It doesn't influence my needs. I takes tactical approach to life obstacles, not believing there is spirit above who is ready to help me.

I'm open minded in my submission because I was also a devoted theist before. It took me almost 28years of my life to realize my foolishness.

I don't think there is any debate on the issue of the God sacrificing himself to forgive those he created. No. The extent you will go in your explanation after long hours of explanation and argument will be; I can't understand because I don't have holy spirit in me. I wonder what they are; an association or a group who can't explain their ideologies in clearer terms to the understanding of those they are trying to persuade. That is simply a cult(secret society) if an outsider can only join you before he would understands your ideologies.

Therefore, there is no need of wasting our precious time when we already know that you will conclude that I don't have holy spirit in me to believe the unintelligible sayings of the Bible. Shalom.

I agree with U that any theist that cannot explain his belief is practicing occultism.
Christianity isn't occultism thus our belief has logical and intelligent explanation.
Nothing is mysterious about Christianity or it's doctrines. Not trinity, redemption by blood, significance of the Messiah, or christophany.
The later is what U questioning here...

That some Christians cannot explain it doesn't make it a mystery.
The issue is most Christians embrace the faith for spiritual reasons, they care less about the theology. Thus when U throw theological questions at them, they struggle.

I was almost becoming an agnostic myself but I delved into the theological world of Christianity, studied the philosophical thoughts of the early church fathers and Christian metaphysics.

Trust me when I say the christian faith is the most reasonable and logical amongst all. Everything in our belief system is based on solid metaphysical concepts that can be traced directly back to God Almighty himself. None of our core belief is man made.

Finally know this...A God cannot die, it's impossible for a god to die. The application of death to a God makes no sense because a God is not bound by the law of nature amongst living things - MR NIGER D.
Therefore, the premise of your question is wrong and that's because U don't understand christophany.

Omoawoke:
Among the daftest people I’ve ever come across, that guy is the grandmaster of the daftest people to have ever existed. Christianity started in Africa? 😂

U are the dumbest of all fools.
Ordinary simple writing of less than 500 words, U cant comprehend.
Where did I say Christianity started in Africa.

adeniyi65:
At the bold, that's what I do use to finish any preaching brought to me by any xtians. Why would I worship someone that sacrificed himself inother to forgive what he himself created? It's unintelligible. Case close.

Can we have a discussion on this ..
First let me know if U are a theist or atheist.

U ask a genuine intelligent question and U deserve an appropriate answer.
Allow me to take U into the world of the person called Logos.

I do hope U are sincere and open minded, otherwise dont bother to respond.

FRANCISTOWN:
Very interesting. Jesus who is the foundation of Christianity sounds like Mensah, Ugochuckwu, Adewale or Kofi.
Bethlehem of Judea sounds like Akodo of Ibeju Lekki or Oke-ira of Eti-Osa.
Jerusalem sounds like Abayi or umuojima.
Mary sounds like Imade or Munachi.

And the twelve disciples were from Africa now, Niger to be precise.

Lol! I didn't expect much from someone who believes in a God that had to kill himself to sacrifice himself to himself in order to straighten his own misdemeanors.

You need a foolishness that is very close to madness before one can be a Christian. And you just proved that. In fact, you are a good Christian.

The way U think is below the level of a 10 yr old. I keep saying it most Nigerian atheist are dumber than an slowpoke. Their reasoning capacity is nauseating.

Your whole live revolves around white man invention.
Your finances, work U do, language U speak, technology and device U use was invented by the white man.
Yet your foolish self have never bothered to ask why U not following the way of your ancestors.

Instead Christianity that's not a white man invention is what U is what is troubling your soul.

If U are so bothered about black Africans ff white man invention, start with yourself.

U should ask yourself why U have abandoned the ways of your ancestors and followed that of the white man.
U can start with your name, why are U bearing FRANCIS and not ogunrinu or amadioha.

Stop harping about Christianity. It was never a white man invention.
If anything, we could confidently say Christian doctrine is an African invention.

FRANCISTOWN:
Infact you are the one who is uninformed.
Geographically Israel belongs to the Asia continent but Israel is at the crossroads of Europe though a Middle East Nation. Israel joined the Europe Western Union in June 2000 in the Europe-Asia Union Agreement signed in 1995. And now we have the Isreal-Europe Union(EU).

It is not a crime to call christianity an European religion because the Europeans helped spread Christianity around.

I've always known U to be very stupid and senseless.
How many times have they corrected u here that Christianity was never a white man's religion
If anything Africans established the Christian doctrines we have today.
Trinity, apostolic creed, Unitarian Christianity, the canonisation of the new testament originated from early church fathers of African origin

Father Arian, father Augustine, father Tertullian, Athanasius, and Origen were all berbers from the ancient Numidia empire in Africa.
U can't talk about foundation of Christianity without mentioing them. Virtually every Christian belief and doctrine came from them. They gave us the new testament.

Yet some oponu will go about saying it was the white man that designed Christianity because the history of the religion is less then 200 yrs old.

When these African church fathers were building Christianity, the whole of Europe was pagan.
So who founded Christianity for who?

AbuTwins:
Was the 10 commandments not also for the Jews?
And Jesus told that rich ruler to obey the commandments...

Kindly go this thread opened by your friend antichristian
https://www.nairaland.com/8155845/jesus-vs-paul-5-forgiveness
and other threads opened him.

I've answered already, no need for repetition
I get work to do this Monday morning.

sonmvayina:
You really need to learn..

https://www.jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/isaiah-53-a-jewish-perspective/

Before you start pulling absurds article from the Internet..

hahaha

I brought u evidence of based on research and dead sea scroll.
u bringing me opinion of modern day jewish scolars.

u are lost bro.

Imagine someone calling evidence from dead sea scrolls absurd, calling extant manuscripts evidence as absurd.
U called evidence from Prof Martin Hengel absurd. FYI- he was one of the greatest scholars of 2nd temple judaism in this modern era.
I brought research work from Nick Meader, top scholar and researcher in theology and philosophy of religion.
These are non - christian works.

now u bring me opinion of 20th century Jewish apologist from a judaism website, what do u expect them to say...Isaih 53 is about Jesus!!!!

My friend, go and bring me evidence that any Jewish scholar before 1000 AD believed Isaiah 43 is about Israel.

Even the targum, which is a aramaic translation of the hebrew bible as far back as 150 BC believed Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah.
FYI- Priest and scribes used to read the targum loud to the people in the synagogue.

sonmvayina:
Hahahahhaa

show me any rabbi pre 500 AD that said the Isaiah 53 is about Israel. Just one.
I brought tons of evidence, now I'm asking u to bring just one person that made such pronouncement.

sonmvayina:
Where is the fact that Jews referred to Isaiah 53 as relating to the Messiah?

did u read all the evidence I sent here?

AbuTwins:
So Jesus did abolish the forbiddance of eating blood and other foods from the old testament.

Can you explain this statement and verse below:

In Leviticus 3:17, it states: "It shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood." This commandment was part of the covenant between God and the Israelites and was meant to be followed by them as an everlasting statute.

Perpetual statute= Everlasting covenant

Am I Jew to obey Jewish dietary laws.
Read acts 15, your answer is there....

Moreover, the Lord shows Peter this in a vision.

Acts 10

He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

The mosaic law remained alive within the context of old testament covenant. It's perpetuity is bound to the longevity of the old testament.

sonmvayina:
Try

So the choice is yours.
You either follow ancient rabbis or a revisionist called Rashi.

As I always say, person wey wan go hell fire no dey hear word but will do everything possible to end up in hell no matter what we do.

U can close your eyes and continue to believe your delusion.
But at least U won't say SIRTee didn't show U the truth.

Qasim, AntiChristian U Muslims guys can also learn the truth.

sonmvayina:
Try

So who started the claim that Isaiah 53 is about Israel.
It was a rabbi called Rashi in the 10th century.

sonmvayina:
Try

More from dead sea scrolls on Isaiah 53.

sonmvayina:
Try

Even extant manuscripts like the dead sea scrolls confirmed the Jews before Jesus believed Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah.

sonmvayina:
Try

Timeline of how Jews went from Isaiah 53 is about an individual to being about nation of Israel.

See how the Jews U follow are distorting interpretation of their text.

You could see that the Targum as far back as 150 BC, 150 yrs b4 Christ already wrote that Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah.
As U can no ancient source pre 500AD believed Isaiah was about Israel.

sonmvayina:
Try

What do Jews think this suffering Messiah will do for them...

He will forgive their iniquity as written in Isaiah 53

sonmvayina:
Try

More from ancient rabbi on Isaiah 53

sonmvayina:
Try

More from early century rabbi who were honest with their text b4 bias against Christianity influenced Jewish interpretation of their Tanakh.

sonmvayina:
Try

Now I will flush your face with clear evidence that the Jews before coming of Jesus believed Psalm 53 was a messianic prophecy.
What changed after coming of Jesus is what U should ask yourself.

Qasim6:
I trust u to throw away Psalm 91 as a prophecy about Jesus. This a prophecy that foreshadow his name.

But you'll rather cling to Isaiah 53, that says the suffering servant will see his off spring, u just have to put a spin on it and change it to some spiritual children.

I don't even have a problem seeing it as a messianic prophecy but that will be retrospective application because Jews before coming of Jesus didn't see it as one.

Psalm 91 if it's about Jesus didn't negate Isaiah 53.
No messianic verse fully described the Messiah.
Jesus fulfilled over 300 messianic prophecies, none of them fully described his ministry. They all spoke in parts.

Honestly I don't get your point about Psalm 91.

Qasim6:
Do messianic prophecies come with messianic stamp?

In Matthew 4, we are told devil try to tempt Jesus by asking him to jump off the highest point of the temple, he said to him "If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning YOU,  and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

And Jesus replied "It is ALSO written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.

And we know for a fact that the verse used by the devil is Psalm 91, and Jesus did not deny that the psalm is about him, infact he affirmed it by replying with: it is ALSO written

Coincidentally, this psalm is all about someone that will be in danger of death and will pray to God and God will save him miraculously and this Psalm also foreshadow the name of Jesus.

And we are told Jesus was praying to God, He prostrated and ask God to take the cup of death away from him.

That Jesus quote a verse doesn't make it messianic.
Pls go and learn the criteria for messianic prophecy.

Jesus quote the shema, hear o Israel your Lord your God is one.

Does that make the shema a messianic prophetic verse.

Go and read 2nd temple messianic prophecies, those verses in the tanakh the pre Christian Jews believed to be about the coming Messiah.

Psalm 91 wasn't considered a messianic prophecy.

Qasim6:
You no go believe am khe?

They don package books by anonymous authors for you as scripture, u gats believe every inch of it..

Anonymous authors is in your head.
We know those who wrote the gospel.

There's a reason the gospel were initially called 'memoir of the apostles'

FYI memoir mean historical account written by an author who actually witnessed the event he wrote about